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In Quiet Desperation: Understanding The Challenge Of Same-gender Attraction
A parent’s spiritual journey toward understanding. A young adult’s search for purpose and peace. Most likely, someone you know is living a life of quiet desperation, struggling with feelings of same-gender attraction. In an effort to help Latter-day Saints understand and reach out to those who suffer from this difficulty, Fred and Marilyn Matis discuss how they’ve dealt with the knowledge of their son Stuart’s challenge with same-gender attraction, and how parents and others can reach out with love. In addition, Ty Mansfield discusses his own challenge and how he continues to go forward with faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ. "The Lord promised that He would deliver us, but he didn't say when," writes Mansfield. "He never promised that it would happen by Monday, and he never promised it would happen in mortality. He only said it would happen."
292 pages, Paperback
First published November 1, 2004
15 people are currently reading
137 people want to read
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September 21, 2013
I've been reading Ty Mansfield's book, "In Quiet Desperation," and I have to say I'm quite impressed. So much of what is written about homosexuality is so politically-motivated that I have a hard time finding an unbiased treatment of the subject. On the one hand you have those who argue that having certain tendencies or inclinations automatically justifies giving expression to those feelings through behaviors. On the other hand you have those who argue that God would never be so cruel as to give someone a trial, an innate attraction, that might preclude him or her from marrying in this life (I actually read a statement from a prominent reparative therapist who made a
claim along those lines). While Mansfield is of course writing from a gospel perspective so it is biased in that sense, I like the fact that the book doesn't tout one particular therapeutic approach as the ideal, one-size-fits-all solution. I find myself skeptical of philosophies/therapies that assert that just because something feels natural to someone, that he ought to give in; but I also question approaches that promise the complete reversal of an orientation that is very much part of a person.
In addition, I believe too much of what is written focuses on causes, whether they be biological or psychological. My cursory reading of the literature leads me to believe we know very little about how a homosexual attraction develops, or even how a heterosexual attraction develops for that matter. While some people may find they are described by a particular set of causes or circumstances, there are likely many different ways of arriving at a homosexual orientation. Ty Mansfield's book is unique in that he makes no attempt to explain the origins of homosexuality. Instead, his purpose is one of reconciliation of an overwhelmingly poorly understood challenge with the doctrines of the gospel. He explains how a homosexual attraction might fit within the plan of God, a plan in which the challenges of mortality are not necessarily obliterated according to our timetable, but the Lord's. The maturity of Mansfield's understanding regarding the Atonement is one that is often lacking in discussions of sexual orientation in religious spheres. In responding to homosexual attraction, too often the focus is on changing orientation rather than changing our hearts to accept the Lord's will for us.
I think I've pretty much decided that even among those who deal with this issue there is a spectrum of needs, and while one approach may work for some, it may not work for all.
The book also issues a call for increased compassion towards who have same-gender feelings whether they decide to engage in homosexual behaviors or not. I have been surprised at how many individuals, individuals whom I respect, admire, and love, have taken me into their confidence by sharing with me the fact that they deal with this.
Current estimates are that approximately 5% of people have a same-gender orientation. I have no reason to suspect that prevalence in the church is any lower. I am also surprised at the ignorance of some church members in regards to this issue. I remember one acquaintance of mine at BYU who when the discussion came up of the possibility of a homosexual being in his ward he said if that were the case, he could never bring himself shake the person's hand. Clearly, something needs to be done about these misunderstandings.
claim along those lines). While Mansfield is of course writing from a gospel perspective so it is biased in that sense, I like the fact that the book doesn't tout one particular therapeutic approach as the ideal, one-size-fits-all solution. I find myself skeptical of philosophies/therapies that assert that just because something feels natural to someone, that he ought to give in; but I also question approaches that promise the complete reversal of an orientation that is very much part of a person.
In addition, I believe too much of what is written focuses on causes, whether they be biological or psychological. My cursory reading of the literature leads me to believe we know very little about how a homosexual attraction develops, or even how a heterosexual attraction develops for that matter. While some people may find they are described by a particular set of causes or circumstances, there are likely many different ways of arriving at a homosexual orientation. Ty Mansfield's book is unique in that he makes no attempt to explain the origins of homosexuality. Instead, his purpose is one of reconciliation of an overwhelmingly poorly understood challenge with the doctrines of the gospel. He explains how a homosexual attraction might fit within the plan of God, a plan in which the challenges of mortality are not necessarily obliterated according to our timetable, but the Lord's. The maturity of Mansfield's understanding regarding the Atonement is one that is often lacking in discussions of sexual orientation in religious spheres. In responding to homosexual attraction, too often the focus is on changing orientation rather than changing our hearts to accept the Lord's will for us.
I think I've pretty much decided that even among those who deal with this issue there is a spectrum of needs, and while one approach may work for some, it may not work for all.
The book also issues a call for increased compassion towards who have same-gender feelings whether they decide to engage in homosexual behaviors or not. I have been surprised at how many individuals, individuals whom I respect, admire, and love, have taken me into their confidence by sharing with me the fact that they deal with this.
Current estimates are that approximately 5% of people have a same-gender orientation. I have no reason to suspect that prevalence in the church is any lower. I am also surprised at the ignorance of some church members in regards to this issue. I remember one acquaintance of mine at BYU who when the discussion came up of the possibility of a homosexual being in his ward he said if that were the case, he could never bring himself shake the person's hand. Clearly, something needs to be done about these misunderstandings.
July 16, 2008
Incredible insight into the lives and hearts of faithful members of the church who struggle with the challenge of same-gender attraction. The authors are my friends, and the kindest of people you would ever know. Fred & Marilyn's son Stuart committed suicide after an intense personal struggle to try to overcome his attractions and remain faithful to what he believed in his heart to be true. As I read, I listed the things I admired about Stuart, and realized when I had nearly a page full, that the list could easily be retitled: Characteristics I hope to Find in My Future Spouse. My heart goes out to my friends who have this struggle. I love them, value their friendship, and hope with all my heart that they find refuge, not ignorant rebuke, through their membership in the church.
June 14, 2013
I am really tired of all the gay right crap! Yet I can't stop thinking and talking about it. I have heard a variety of reasons why people are "gay." I have never really been comfortable with any of them. I found all the reasons to sound a little pathetic, to be honest. I am very much a heterosexual and personally could not possibly understand how anyone could be otherwise. I picked up this book to gain further understanding about people who are attracted to the same sex.
This book definitely served it's purpose. Fred and Marilyn Matis did an excellent job explaining how they, as parents of a child who struggled with same-gender attraction, coped with all of the personal "baggage." I would do anything to meet these parents because they sound like they truly understand Christ-like love.
The second half of the book is written by Ty and WOW! I am amazed at the inner peace this young 26 year old has. He goes through numerous details of how he awful and depressed he felt, even as a young man, when he realized he wasn't like his peers. Ty shares a number of very personal experience that nearly break your heart to think anyone would feel that awful about himself. I felt so bad for this young man that I wept with him. I couldn't imagine how he must have felt.
I am so grateful I read this book. I now have a better understanding of people who struggle with same-gender attraction. I realize people have their own opinions, but after reading this book I feel I can be more understanding to people who struggle with same-gender attraction. I will never support gay marriage. I still believe marriage should be between man and woman. I do, however, have a better understanding of how "gay" people must feel.
In addition to understanding for same-gender attraction I have also increased my understanding of personal worth. I was deeply touched by the authors' beliefs that we are all children of God and he loves us. I have believed this since I was a little child, but this book has strengthened that knowledge in a way I can't explain.
I would highly recommend this book to anyone. It is very insightful.
This book definitely served it's purpose. Fred and Marilyn Matis did an excellent job explaining how they, as parents of a child who struggled with same-gender attraction, coped with all of the personal "baggage." I would do anything to meet these parents because they sound like they truly understand Christ-like love.
The second half of the book is written by Ty and WOW! I am amazed at the inner peace this young 26 year old has. He goes through numerous details of how he awful and depressed he felt, even as a young man, when he realized he wasn't like his peers. Ty shares a number of very personal experience that nearly break your heart to think anyone would feel that awful about himself. I felt so bad for this young man that I wept with him. I couldn't imagine how he must have felt.
I am so grateful I read this book. I now have a better understanding of people who struggle with same-gender attraction. I realize people have their own opinions, but after reading this book I feel I can be more understanding to people who struggle with same-gender attraction. I will never support gay marriage. I still believe marriage should be between man and woman. I do, however, have a better understanding of how "gay" people must feel.
In addition to understanding for same-gender attraction I have also increased my understanding of personal worth. I was deeply touched by the authors' beliefs that we are all children of God and he loves us. I have believed this since I was a little child, but this book has strengthened that knowledge in a way I can't explain.
I would highly recommend this book to anyone. It is very insightful.
November 3, 2008
Tragic and wonderful. A very powerful book that anyone of the mormon faith should read
November 22, 2020
This book is now irrelevant. It was published in 2004 by Dessert Books meaning it was required to align the official public policy of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints regarding homosexuality at that time, which means it was pretty demeaning and intolerant. Overall, it ended up being a superficial look into what it’s like to be a gay member of the Church. It’s clear it was greatly censored and at a great disservice to all gay members who read it hoping to find solace.
The Church’s stance on homosexuality has shifted radically in the past 15 years. The Church has extended tolerance and love to gay members like never before, it’s a little disappointing that it’s taken so long, but it appears the Church has moved just about as fast as public opinion in this regard. Don’t waste your time with this book, go visit mormonandgay.com instead (this web address will still take you to the site) the information there is an up-to-date and much more optimistic representation of the Church’s stance on homosexuality.
The Church’s stance on homosexuality has shifted radically in the past 15 years. The Church has extended tolerance and love to gay members like never before, it’s a little disappointing that it’s taken so long, but it appears the Church has moved just about as fast as public opinion in this regard. Don’t waste your time with this book, go visit mormonandgay.com instead (this web address will still take you to the site) the information there is an up-to-date and much more optimistic representation of the Church’s stance on homosexuality.
November 24, 2022
This is an awesome, awesome, awesome book for understanding same-gender attraction with an LDS perspective.
The first half of the book is written by a husband and wife whose son struggled with same-gender attraction. He killed himself because he could not reconcile his attraction with the plan of salvation. His parents offer a wonderful insight on how members of the Church can support those who struggle with this trial.
The second half of the book is written by an LDS man who struggles with same gender attraction. He has always been a devout member of the Church and has spent so much time studying and trying to understand God's plan for him. His insights are wonderfully applicable to anyone who has trials.
I ended up buying my own copy of this book because there were so many wonderful quotes and valuable insights. Really, I cannot say enough good things about this book and I think that every member of the Church should read it.
The first half of the book is written by a husband and wife whose son struggled with same-gender attraction. He killed himself because he could not reconcile his attraction with the plan of salvation. His parents offer a wonderful insight on how members of the Church can support those who struggle with this trial.
The second half of the book is written by an LDS man who struggles with same gender attraction. He has always been a devout member of the Church and has spent so much time studying and trying to understand God's plan for him. His insights are wonderfully applicable to anyone who has trials.
I ended up buying my own copy of this book because there were so many wonderful quotes and valuable insights. Really, I cannot say enough good things about this book and I think that every member of the Church should read it.
May 6, 2015
I read this book when I found out someone close to me was a lesbian. I wanted to understand her better and love her without judging her. This book is a favorite book on the atonement. It's content applies to everyone, not just those who struggle with same-gender attraction. We all have trials and struggles in this life and this book teaches incredible principles to help us get through them using the atonement of our Savior.
When I suggested to others they should read this book for understanding, empathy and love. I couldn't believe how closed off they were. They were mean and unfeeling to understanding and loving people with the struggle of same self attraction. If you love someone or are someone struggling read this book.
When I suggested to others they should read this book for understanding, empathy and love. I couldn't believe how closed off they were. They were mean and unfeeling to understanding and loving people with the struggle of same self attraction. If you love someone or are someone struggling read this book.
February 21, 2025
the first half of the book about a young LGBT person’s suicide and decades-long struggle with self-loathing was incredibly moving and devastating.
and then the second half of the book reaffirmed that gay, Mormon people should be celibate and/or have mixed-orientation marriages. absolutely tone-deaf and dangerous.
and then the second half of the book reaffirmed that gay, Mormon people should be celibate and/or have mixed-orientation marriages. absolutely tone-deaf and dangerous.
January 31, 2009
This is one of my favorite books on the atonement. It's content applies to everyone, not just those who struggle with same-gender attraction. We all have trials and struggles in this life and this book teaches incredible principles to help us get through them using the atonement of our Savior.
July 10, 2012
This book was so insightful for me. It wasn't just limited to expanding my understanding of same-gender attraction (particularly within the LDS Church) but was helpful for me to gain a better understanding of the Atonement and it's application for various challenges that we face.
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October 3, 2011My gay friend came and visited me a couple weeks ago from out of state. I met him at BYU, wrote to him on his mission, did a roadtrip to see the Nauvoo temple open house with him, and had him at my temple wedding. I love him. He was finishing up his graduate degree at BYU when he decided he couldn't do it anymore and came out. He seems pretty happy now, and he is excited about his new boyfriend. So I picked up this book after his visit, wanting to find some new books on the topic. I've read a couple in the past that really intrigued me.
About a week after that visit I came across a former co-worker on the internet, one that I used to attend an institute class with. There was a group of us who left on our lunch breaks once a week and went to this particular class, and he had just been attending a few weeks when he told me how much he loved it. Other people (like me) really enjoyed the class, but he LOVED this class. He was so passionate about it that it kind of surprised me a little bit, and the week our teacher was going to be out of town he asked if we could get a group together to go to lunch and just discuss the gospel together. This same week he was fired for falsifying sales in our office. He wasn't lying to steal money, he was boarding fake sales so that everyone would think he was a better salesperson than he really was. I know he rubbed some people the wrong way while he worked there, but I'd never had a problem with him personally. After he was fired I felt bad because I knew he wouldn't be able to come to institute anymore and face everyone who knew what he'd been let go for doing. I never saw him again, but I found out later that he and his wife divorced and he became the leader of a prominent LGBT anti-LDS Church movement in Utah. I caught up on his life online, and saw that he had been treated badly by his family and the church (even if some of it was just his perception) when they'd found out he was gay. He'd come out earlier in life, then decided to be straight and get married, and then came out again (if I understood correctly). I also remember when he was fired, thinking, "What has happened in his life that he would risk his job just so that he could get some acknowledgement and admiration from other people?" It all kind of makes sense now. I don't think he's a dishonest guy, I think he was genuinely hurt and experienced a lot of pain in his life to be so desparate for approval from others.
I turned on the TV a couple nights later right in the middle of an interview with the gay leader of the democrat party in Utah, discussing LGBT rights. I looked him up online, and his campaign manager was none other than that same former co worker who once loved institute so much. Interesting. The universe keeps bringing this topic back to me, I swear.
I am still very unclear on my feelings about homosexuality. Maybe it is wrong to act out on these feelings at all, and the people who struggle with it are supposed to live celibate their whole lives - just like other people who are straight but never find someone to marry in this life. That second group isn't supposed to sleep with someone they're attracted to unless they're married to them, same deal. (But at least they get to date and TRY to find a partner.) I don't know that I would live a celibate life. Actually, I'm pretty sure I would do the same thing that my gay friend from BYU did, and get out of here. That probably speaks more to my personal weaknesses that anything else, but it also makes me much more compassionate and non-judgemental towards anyone who is gay. (And I do believe people are sometimes born this way, but also that there are varying degrees of same gender attraction - and some people can marry and have a family, even if they have this temptation. Some can't. It's what these people go through and what should be expected of them, and whether we should be so pointedly anti-gay marriage that is a gray area for me.)
This book has two sections - the first by a very active LDS family whose gay son committed suicide. The second is by a gay man in his twenties who is trying to live as an active LDS man, but is attracted to other men. The first part went quickly, but the second part dragged a bit. I guess I wanted to hear his life story - what it was like to have these feelings as a child, when he realized he was gay, what he did when he had a brief period of acting out in the lifestyle, why he came back to church, etc... However, it wasn't that. It was a lot of philosophizing, sharing scripture stories and quotes by LDS leaders, personal revelation, talk about commandments - that sort of stuff. It was all good, don't get me wrong. It was good in the same way General Conference is good. It's great information, but it's hard to get super stoked about picking up the Ensign and reading another excitement filled talk by an old dude (no matter how wise and right the old dude may be). I did finish it, and I was glad I did. It just took awhile. The last bit of the book was the most meaningful to me, so I was glad I'd stuck it out.
I don't know what else to say, other than I have changed from being weirded out by gay people (as a teenager) to not even remotely bothered by it anymore. I am bothered by actions taken by gay people at times, but not by someone who has those feelings of attraction. I also told my husband that I will never, ever be mad if he finds another woman attractive or if I catch him watching a pretty woman walk by. I will be grateful for the fact that my husband is straight and likes women. Really, it makes life less complicated in one aspect, and so I have learned to count my blessings. Yes, my husband spends years in Iraq, but at least we have this straight thing going for us.
To anyone who is gay - you're still awesome. That's my final opinion on the matter. Good luck to you.
PS. The male model on the front cover is totally hot, even though you can't see his eyes. That would annoy me if I was a gay guy trying to kick the habit, and every time I picked up the book I just saw a very attractive man. For me however, it made me like the book more fun - except when I thought that the guy on the cover could be gay. Then I was sad for all of womankind.
About a week after that visit I came across a former co-worker on the internet, one that I used to attend an institute class with. There was a group of us who left on our lunch breaks once a week and went to this particular class, and he had just been attending a few weeks when he told me how much he loved it. Other people (like me) really enjoyed the class, but he LOVED this class. He was so passionate about it that it kind of surprised me a little bit, and the week our teacher was going to be out of town he asked if we could get a group together to go to lunch and just discuss the gospel together. This same week he was fired for falsifying sales in our office. He wasn't lying to steal money, he was boarding fake sales so that everyone would think he was a better salesperson than he really was. I know he rubbed some people the wrong way while he worked there, but I'd never had a problem with him personally. After he was fired I felt bad because I knew he wouldn't be able to come to institute anymore and face everyone who knew what he'd been let go for doing. I never saw him again, but I found out later that he and his wife divorced and he became the leader of a prominent LGBT anti-LDS Church movement in Utah. I caught up on his life online, and saw that he had been treated badly by his family and the church (even if some of it was just his perception) when they'd found out he was gay. He'd come out earlier in life, then decided to be straight and get married, and then came out again (if I understood correctly). I also remember when he was fired, thinking, "What has happened in his life that he would risk his job just so that he could get some acknowledgement and admiration from other people?" It all kind of makes sense now. I don't think he's a dishonest guy, I think he was genuinely hurt and experienced a lot of pain in his life to be so desparate for approval from others.
I turned on the TV a couple nights later right in the middle of an interview with the gay leader of the democrat party in Utah, discussing LGBT rights. I looked him up online, and his campaign manager was none other than that same former co worker who once loved institute so much. Interesting. The universe keeps bringing this topic back to me, I swear.
I am still very unclear on my feelings about homosexuality. Maybe it is wrong to act out on these feelings at all, and the people who struggle with it are supposed to live celibate their whole lives - just like other people who are straight but never find someone to marry in this life. That second group isn't supposed to sleep with someone they're attracted to unless they're married to them, same deal. (But at least they get to date and TRY to find a partner.) I don't know that I would live a celibate life. Actually, I'm pretty sure I would do the same thing that my gay friend from BYU did, and get out of here. That probably speaks more to my personal weaknesses that anything else, but it also makes me much more compassionate and non-judgemental towards anyone who is gay. (And I do believe people are sometimes born this way, but also that there are varying degrees of same gender attraction - and some people can marry and have a family, even if they have this temptation. Some can't. It's what these people go through and what should be expected of them, and whether we should be so pointedly anti-gay marriage that is a gray area for me.)
This book has two sections - the first by a very active LDS family whose gay son committed suicide. The second is by a gay man in his twenties who is trying to live as an active LDS man, but is attracted to other men. The first part went quickly, but the second part dragged a bit. I guess I wanted to hear his life story - what it was like to have these feelings as a child, when he realized he was gay, what he did when he had a brief period of acting out in the lifestyle, why he came back to church, etc... However, it wasn't that. It was a lot of philosophizing, sharing scripture stories and quotes by LDS leaders, personal revelation, talk about commandments - that sort of stuff. It was all good, don't get me wrong. It was good in the same way General Conference is good. It's great information, but it's hard to get super stoked about picking up the Ensign and reading another excitement filled talk by an old dude (no matter how wise and right the old dude may be). I did finish it, and I was glad I did. It just took awhile. The last bit of the book was the most meaningful to me, so I was glad I'd stuck it out.
I don't know what else to say, other than I have changed from being weirded out by gay people (as a teenager) to not even remotely bothered by it anymore. I am bothered by actions taken by gay people at times, but not by someone who has those feelings of attraction. I also told my husband that I will never, ever be mad if he finds another woman attractive or if I catch him watching a pretty woman walk by. I will be grateful for the fact that my husband is straight and likes women. Really, it makes life less complicated in one aspect, and so I have learned to count my blessings. Yes, my husband spends years in Iraq, but at least we have this straight thing going for us.
To anyone who is gay - you're still awesome. That's my final opinion on the matter. Good luck to you.
PS. The male model on the front cover is totally hot, even though you can't see his eyes. That would annoy me if I was a gay guy trying to kick the habit, and every time I picked up the book I just saw a very attractive man. For me however, it made me like the book more fun - except when I thought that the guy on the cover could be gay. Then I was sad for all of womankind.
April 2, 2023
Wow! This book was just amazing! Not only did I learn so much about same-sex attraction, but also got the chance to look at many gospel topics in new and beautiful ways. I found myself stopping to think and reread many times. I highly recommend this book. Even if you're not trying to learn more about same-sex attraction, just plug in your "favorite sin" and the principles still apply...we all have something that is keeping us from fully turning to God.
November 5, 2017
I almost feel guilty giving this book two stars, but I have to.
First of all, I was impressed with the way Fred and Marilyn Matis wrote their story. It was honest and thoughtful, and as far as I could tell, they had a really great relationship with their son Stuart and did all that they could to accept him and show him love. I do not doubt that they try to help others in a truly kind and beneficial way -- all the while trying to maintain a respect and appreciation for the gospel. I understand why they wrote the book, and I understand why they have to maintain their position as active and strong members of the Mormon church.
I first learned about Stuart Matis and his story while searching to try and understand why my church would step outside of our church arena in order to stop gay marriage from being legal [Prop 8 in California in 2008]. I could not understand how this could be possible ... why would we bother with people who had not signed on to be Mormon and who did not live by our rules? Why couldn't we leave well enough alone? Then I would feel incredible guilt because I must not understand what the Brethren were trying to teach us. So I read, and I searched, and I tried to find information that would make sense to my brain as to how we could justify this campaign. Then I stumbled upon something online about Stuart Matis. I have no family who is gay, and at the time, had no friends who were gay. But this story hit me so hard that I cried for days. I do not understand a church who has so little concern for people who, through no fault of their own, have a different sexual orientation. I do not understand a church who shows so little concern for the anguish that people go through, in their efforts to recognize that they are gay, but choose to remain members of the church in good standing, and yet end up committing suicide. How does one watch this happen over and over again and not do something to help them?
I have to admit, I did not complete Ty Mansfield's side of the book. By this point, I have read many stories of gay Mormons ... and after I thumbed through most of Ty's section, I realized that it was just his 200-page-long testimony. Maybe that is helpful for someone who's only goal is to stay within the church.
I totally understand the Matis' position. I do feel like they did almost everything within their power to help their son. I appreciate so much that he could tell them of his situation, and they showed love for him. There were many Mormon parents who did NOT show love to their children who came out back in those days. But whenever people read this book, they should also read something NOT included in this book -- Stuart Matis' letter to his cousin, Clay, for a paper Clay was writing on the subject of California's "Protection of Marriage" proposal. This letter shows Stuart's true thoughts about the 2000 Proposition 22 and the Mormon church's involvement, as well as how difficult it is for gay people within the church. That letter provides more of an insight into Stuart's thoughts about his being gay, and his and other's true experiences.
It has been over a decade since the Matis' wrote this book. It's my guess that they have shifted somewhat in their beliefs on the subject, as I have -- because over time, we learn new things about what it is to be gay, and we observe the church response to gay rights. But if one is going to write a book, they need to offer some kind of help that will prevent people from suicide. Why in heavens name would we ask gay people to submit themselves onto some kind of sacrificial altar, to be punished in this life with no companionship or love from a spouse, when the heterosexual members usually don't have to deal with as difficult a choice as celibacy? It seems incredibly unfair, and I find it difficult to think that a loving Heavenly Father would require this.
First of all, I was impressed with the way Fred and Marilyn Matis wrote their story. It was honest and thoughtful, and as far as I could tell, they had a really great relationship with their son Stuart and did all that they could to accept him and show him love. I do not doubt that they try to help others in a truly kind and beneficial way -- all the while trying to maintain a respect and appreciation for the gospel. I understand why they wrote the book, and I understand why they have to maintain their position as active and strong members of the Mormon church.
I first learned about Stuart Matis and his story while searching to try and understand why my church would step outside of our church arena in order to stop gay marriage from being legal [Prop 8 in California in 2008]. I could not understand how this could be possible ... why would we bother with people who had not signed on to be Mormon and who did not live by our rules? Why couldn't we leave well enough alone? Then I would feel incredible guilt because I must not understand what the Brethren were trying to teach us. So I read, and I searched, and I tried to find information that would make sense to my brain as to how we could justify this campaign. Then I stumbled upon something online about Stuart Matis. I have no family who is gay, and at the time, had no friends who were gay. But this story hit me so hard that I cried for days. I do not understand a church who has so little concern for people who, through no fault of their own, have a different sexual orientation. I do not understand a church who shows so little concern for the anguish that people go through, in their efforts to recognize that they are gay, but choose to remain members of the church in good standing, and yet end up committing suicide. How does one watch this happen over and over again and not do something to help them?
I have to admit, I did not complete Ty Mansfield's side of the book. By this point, I have read many stories of gay Mormons ... and after I thumbed through most of Ty's section, I realized that it was just his 200-page-long testimony. Maybe that is helpful for someone who's only goal is to stay within the church.
I totally understand the Matis' position. I do feel like they did almost everything within their power to help their son. I appreciate so much that he could tell them of his situation, and they showed love for him. There were many Mormon parents who did NOT show love to their children who came out back in those days. But whenever people read this book, they should also read something NOT included in this book -- Stuart Matis' letter to his cousin, Clay, for a paper Clay was writing on the subject of California's "Protection of Marriage" proposal. This letter shows Stuart's true thoughts about the 2000 Proposition 22 and the Mormon church's involvement, as well as how difficult it is for gay people within the church. That letter provides more of an insight into Stuart's thoughts about his being gay, and his and other's true experiences.
It has been over a decade since the Matis' wrote this book. It's my guess that they have shifted somewhat in their beliefs on the subject, as I have -- because over time, we learn new things about what it is to be gay, and we observe the church response to gay rights. But if one is going to write a book, they need to offer some kind of help that will prevent people from suicide. Why in heavens name would we ask gay people to submit themselves onto some kind of sacrificial altar, to be punished in this life with no companionship or love from a spouse, when the heterosexual members usually don't have to deal with as difficult a choice as celibacy? It seems incredibly unfair, and I find it difficult to think that a loving Heavenly Father would require this.
June 16, 2015
The issue of homosexuality in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is growing in openness. Unfortunately, some leaders of the Church and especially some LDS authors simply are not educated enough to address the real issue. This book is like a gay sensitivity seminar, and if anything, is encouraging homosexuality. Our feelings can change every day, it all depends on what we decide to give into or dwell on. This book pretends to be about unconditional love, but what it's really about is arguing for a weakness, which any of us could do about any weakness. This isn't true charity at all, because you're not caring about the person's spiritual well-being if you're sympathizing with their weakness. What makes homosexuality so different from any other weakness? It's just an addiction. It's not who a person is, it's not "part of" who a person is. A person's sexual orientation has nothing to do with who a person is. It's based entirely on self-identification and behavior. People CAN change, if they want to, which this book refuses to consider. Change is what Christianity is all about, and this book, by denying that people can change, is denying Christ. It is of extreme importance to learn to separate a person's worth from his behavior, thoughts or feelings. I'm sure the authors were well-intentioned, but I'm afraid (and this may as well go for the church in general), that they were just not educated enough about the subject to really say anything of truth or value. They were really close to a sad experience, leading to a sentimental, emotion-based response, and they didn't use the infinite Atonement. It's also really shameful that they would exploit their mentally unstable son and his suicide in an attempt to raise him up as some kind of martyr or shining example of righteousness.
Shame on Deseret Book for publishing such biased, weak, Godless and non-Christ-centered propaganda. For some non-sentimental, non-self-seving truth on the subject, see transcripts on Homosexuality: What Works and What Doesn't Work by Dr. Jeff Robinson and Homosexuality: The Innate-Immutability Argument Finds No Basis in Science by Byrd and Cox.
Shame on Deseret Book for publishing such biased, weak, Godless and non-Christ-centered propaganda. For some non-sentimental, non-self-seving truth on the subject, see transcripts on Homosexuality: What Works and What Doesn't Work by Dr. Jeff Robinson and Homosexuality: The Innate-Immutability Argument Finds No Basis in Science by Byrd and Cox.
October 13, 2011
I really wanted to like this book—but unless one is a fervent Latter Day Saint, one will likely find somewhat tiresome Ty's frequent deferences to the established authority of the Mormon Scriptures and church presidents and leaders. This book is largely an apologetic addressed to other Mormons, both those who may be 'struggling' with same-sex attraction and those who may be judgmental towards those in the Church who are struggling. Due to the primacy of his faith, Ty's own felt needs must be subjugated to his theological beliefs. As a result, this book contains a rather emotionless, cognitively-oriented argument in favor of understanding and accepting same-gender attraction—without ever giving in to it. I believe that Ty is a good and sincere man trying his darndest to integrate his Mormon/ Christian beliefs with his same-sex attractions. He tries to reconcile the two, and his book is likely most helpful for the homophobic church member who has zero empathy for those who struggle with same-sex attraction—but not as helpful for the same-gender-attracted individual who may be less theologically inclined.
November 15, 2012
This is an amazing book. I highly recommend it. The first section is so heart-wrenching, but the last section is just beautiful doctrine. Very uplifting
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August 15, 2023Cannot put stars on this one. I read it to try to understand some of my patients' lives better.
In a technical way of reviewing, the writing was good -there are actually two parts of the book, memoir, written by two different authors. The first half was written by a mother of a gay son who died by suicide. It was on one hand tender and lovely how she pled for compassion for him, but also her ultimate message was (I think) that she was almost glad he died by suicide rather than be gay. Reading it was like some kind of horror show - you watch this sweet, beloved kid suffer so much and ultimately DIE because not one person anywhere in his life was able to step in and say, "Hey, maybe you are not doomed because of this," and present him an alternate vision of his life. That his community had not come up with a way to - if they were going to insist on celibacy - find some kind of Jesuit-like service path for people.
As a mother from a different culture, it was fascinating but ultimately really too awful to hear this mother describe her son's decades of descent. I kept wanting to yell, "GO! I'll take you! I'll take you and be your mom! Let's go watch A Chorus Line!" But also, I am glad I read this.
The second half is another memoir by a kid not unlike her own. And basically how hard he tries to not be gay, how hurtful the homophobic comments are etc.
I'm sure things have imrpved since this was written in 2004. I am glad I read it, because it is easy to demonize people who treat people like this, and it was very human in so many ways. But also, very, very tragic and unnecessary.
In a technical way of reviewing, the writing was good -there are actually two parts of the book, memoir, written by two different authors. The first half was written by a mother of a gay son who died by suicide. It was on one hand tender and lovely how she pled for compassion for him, but also her ultimate message was (I think) that she was almost glad he died by suicide rather than be gay. Reading it was like some kind of horror show - you watch this sweet, beloved kid suffer so much and ultimately DIE because not one person anywhere in his life was able to step in and say, "Hey, maybe you are not doomed because of this," and present him an alternate vision of his life. That his community had not come up with a way to - if they were going to insist on celibacy - find some kind of Jesuit-like service path for people.
As a mother from a different culture, it was fascinating but ultimately really too awful to hear this mother describe her son's decades of descent. I kept wanting to yell, "GO! I'll take you! I'll take you and be your mom! Let's go watch A Chorus Line!" But also, I am glad I read this.
The second half is another memoir by a kid not unlike her own. And basically how hard he tries to not be gay, how hurtful the homophobic comments are etc.
I'm sure things have imrpved since this was written in 2004. I am glad I read it, because it is easy to demonize people who treat people like this, and it was very human in so many ways. But also, very, very tragic and unnecessary.
August 21, 2020
Not sure what to say about this book. Deeply profound, challenged and changed a lot of my own misconceptions. Helps me realize that in this mortal world it is always better to err towards compassion and mercy than to try to mete our our own version of justice based on flawed understandings. Some things in the gospel are clear, but in no way does understanding unchanging and eternal truths preclude a vast amount of room for love, empathy, inclusion, and companionship that should dominate our actions. Preach the gospel at all times, and when necessary, use words right? I’m afraid we as a church have not been living up to that injunction, and we can only change as fast as each member realizes the body of Christ is far more expansive and inclusive than i think we have been viewing it, but maybe it’s just my own folly, so I’ll start there.
April 30, 2023
I appreciate the perspectives provided by Ty Mansfield and others to help me understand what it’s like to experience same gender attraction from a faith-based perspective. Most of what I learned had little to do with same-gender attraction and more to do with showing up for other people with love and kindness, recognizing goodness, strengthening my own testimony and relationship with Jesus Christ, and helping others to recognize and feel God’s love in their individual situations. It took me a while to get through this book because it reads more like an educational text than my preferred memoir/self-help. In places, the prose could have been significantly streamlined. Still, the highlights far outweigh the drawbacks.
June 19, 2023
Fascinating read. As I strive to live a Christ-like life and Christian values, I want to love others more deeply. Reading about individuals who live and experience things differently than myself has helped me understand more and love deeply. I believe when we share our vulnerabilities, we love deeper. Learning about the parents of a gay son who committed suicide, alongside a young man who also identifies as gay has helped me see the beauty in looking to Christ and loving as He did. I hope to be inclusive as well as more understanding of those who identify as LGTBQ. I’m grateful for the experiences shared in this book, for their vulnerability as well as their focus on Jesus Christ.
July 21, 2017
This book was very enlightening especially in the context of the LDS church. There is a lot of stigma and misunderstanding around same-gender attraction in the church and this book answers a lot of those questions as well as giving sound spiritual guidance to those who experience same-gender attraction. A great read for anyone seeking understanding and a way to help and support loved ones dealing with this.
June 5, 2018
A great read for Christians (especially Latter-day Saints) who are trying to understand same-gender attraction and how it fits into the gospel. Also great for those who experience same-gender attraction and are trying to figure out how to align Christian beliefs with current circumstances. It's very eye-opening and uplifting.
July 22, 2018
I found the first 60 pages very interesting. The last 3/4 of the book had some good insights but wasn't nearly as interesting or helpful.
October 21, 2008
This is in the beginning of the book. I try to remember it when I am going through hard things.
"There was a group of women in a Bible study on the book of Malachi. As they were studying chapter three, they came across verse three which says: "He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver." (Malachi 3:3) This verse puzzled the women and they wondered what this statement meant about the character and nature of God.
One of the women offered to find out about the process of refining silver and get back to the group at their next Bible study. That week this woman called up a silver smith and made an appointment to watch him at work. She didn't mention anything about the reason for her interest in silver beyond her curiosity about the process of refining silver. As she watched the silver smith, he held a piece of silver over the fire and let it heat up. He explained that in refining silver, one needed to hold the silver in the middle of the fire where the flames were hottest as to burn away all the impurities. The woman thought about God holding us in such a hot spot--then she thought again about the verse, that he sits as a refiner and purifier of silver.
She asked the silver smith if it was true that he had to sit there in front of the fire the whole time the silver was being refined. The man answered that yes, he not only had to sit there holding the silver, but he had to keep his eyes on the silver the entire time it was in the fire. If the silver was left even a moment too long in the flames, it would be destroyed. The woman was silent for a moment. Then she asked the silver smith, "How do you know when the silver is fully refined?"
He smiled at her and answered, "Oh, that's easy--when I see my image in it."
If today you are feeling the heat of the fire, remember that God has His eye on you."
Author unknown
"There was a group of women in a Bible study on the book of Malachi. As they were studying chapter three, they came across verse three which says: "He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver." (Malachi 3:3) This verse puzzled the women and they wondered what this statement meant about the character and nature of God.
One of the women offered to find out about the process of refining silver and get back to the group at their next Bible study. That week this woman called up a silver smith and made an appointment to watch him at work. She didn't mention anything about the reason for her interest in silver beyond her curiosity about the process of refining silver. As she watched the silver smith, he held a piece of silver over the fire and let it heat up. He explained that in refining silver, one needed to hold the silver in the middle of the fire where the flames were hottest as to burn away all the impurities. The woman thought about God holding us in such a hot spot--then she thought again about the verse, that he sits as a refiner and purifier of silver.
She asked the silver smith if it was true that he had to sit there in front of the fire the whole time the silver was being refined. The man answered that yes, he not only had to sit there holding the silver, but he had to keep his eyes on the silver the entire time it was in the fire. If the silver was left even a moment too long in the flames, it would be destroyed. The woman was silent for a moment. Then she asked the silver smith, "How do you know when the silver is fully refined?"
He smiled at her and answered, "Oh, that's easy--when I see my image in it."
If today you are feeling the heat of the fire, remember that God has His eye on you."
Author unknown
May 21, 2013
First of all, it gets a little repetitive at the end, but I defy you to not be emotionally distraught right along with the Matis's as they poignantly describe their relationship with their son, and the terrible awakening they experience as they see their son's road, and join him on it.
The second 2/3's of the book are written by Ty Mansfield, now a therapist in Texas. He is heartfelt, and brutally honest about his road in life, and I think it is a wonderful perspective for someone who has found a third way to live (you'll have to read the book to understand what I mean). I am not so naive to think that his way is the salvation road for all whose lives are similar, but I appreciate that he is a bold voice out in the world to say that there is another option, a difficult one. I don't think that he pulls any punches in stating that he still struggles, and his is not easy, but he offers hope to those who have not found peace in the choices the world provides.
Additionally, I found as I read that so many of Mansfield's doctrinal perspectives applied to my life and how I respond to any kind of urge or natural disposition I experience, and made me realize that I have few excuses for not learning to try and subdue some of my frailties.
I think that this book is a great resource for any individual trying to gain self-discipline and control in their life, as well as anyone seeking to understand and empathize with those who feel same-sex attraction. Understand not to try and change, but to understand and better love them for who they are.
The second 2/3's of the book are written by Ty Mansfield, now a therapist in Texas. He is heartfelt, and brutally honest about his road in life, and I think it is a wonderful perspective for someone who has found a third way to live (you'll have to read the book to understand what I mean). I am not so naive to think that his way is the salvation road for all whose lives are similar, but I appreciate that he is a bold voice out in the world to say that there is another option, a difficult one. I don't think that he pulls any punches in stating that he still struggles, and his is not easy, but he offers hope to those who have not found peace in the choices the world provides.
Additionally, I found as I read that so many of Mansfield's doctrinal perspectives applied to my life and how I respond to any kind of urge or natural disposition I experience, and made me realize that I have few excuses for not learning to try and subdue some of my frailties.
I think that this book is a great resource for any individual trying to gain self-discipline and control in their life, as well as anyone seeking to understand and empathize with those who feel same-sex attraction. Understand not to try and change, but to understand and better love them for who they are.
May 17, 2009
First of all, I do not experience the challenge of same-gender attraction. But I do have several friends who have had to deal with this problem. My best friend growing up eventually "came out" after 21 years of life.
I also know the co-author, Ty Mansfield. He was my EFY counselor back in 2001. I also met with him briefly on my mission in Washington State. He is a very good person. This book gave me a greater understanding of the inner battle my friends have waged.
Anybody from the LDS church should read this book. It was written for the purpose of helping those who seem naive about the situation to come to a better understanding and acceptance of those dealing with same-gender attraction. We are all God's children.
The book itself was written very well with great doctrinal points that apply to everyone, no matter the problem one might be dealing with. Some chapters were a little repetitive, but overall it was a very good book.
I also know the co-author, Ty Mansfield. He was my EFY counselor back in 2001. I also met with him briefly on my mission in Washington State. He is a very good person. This book gave me a greater understanding of the inner battle my friends have waged.
Anybody from the LDS church should read this book. It was written for the purpose of helping those who seem naive about the situation to come to a better understanding and acceptance of those dealing with same-gender attraction. We are all God's children.
The book itself was written very well with great doctrinal points that apply to everyone, no matter the problem one might be dealing with. Some chapters were a little repetitive, but overall it was a very good book.
February 4, 2012
I'm just trying to get my mind and heart in a better place on this topic. It totally befuddles me. I finally finished the book and it was full of doctrine sweet and pure. Perhaps a little too much of it? He could have made his point in half the space. But it was all good stuff. He never tries to justify homosexuals getting into a relationship, in fact just the opposite. He gives every reason out there for staying chaste, even if it means a life of being single and celibate. The author is very brave to stand up for his beliefs like this. I will never completely understand why people have these attractions but I do want to be less judgemental of those who are challeneged by SGA. I found it really interesting in reading recent reviews of this book that the author did actually get married to a woman, eventually. I wish them the very best!
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September 17, 2016One of the most amazing books I've read. I know one of the authors and so am slightly biased- but I would recommend this book to ANYONE and EVERYone.
It is such an incredible description of the issues faced by those with same gender attraction. I feel like often time people stereotype and generalize homosexuality without completely understanding it.
The book is written by Ty (a man who has same gender attraction) and the mother and father of a man who committed suicide due to the challenges he faced dealing with his same gender attraction.
It opened my eyes and made me more aware. It can also be applied to ANY challenge faced by anyone- not just the challenges of same gender attraction.
READ THIS BOOK!!
It is such an incredible description of the issues faced by those with same gender attraction. I feel like often time people stereotype and generalize homosexuality without completely understanding it.
The book is written by Ty (a man who has same gender attraction) and the mother and father of a man who committed suicide due to the challenges he faced dealing with his same gender attraction.
It opened my eyes and made me more aware. It can also be applied to ANY challenge faced by anyone- not just the challenges of same gender attraction.
READ THIS BOOK!!
July 15, 2008
So Deep....It was incredibly touching and profound to me to look at the infinite number and range of trials each of us goes thru in life and reinforced how amazing our Father in Heaven and Christ are in that they look at us not as how we deal with those trials but are our cheering squad/leaders/friends who love us thru them regardless. This book definitely helped me to realize I am too quick to judge and want to stop doing it in order to progress to be just a little bit more like my Savior!!! Super impressed by the main author....what a spirit!!!!
February 11, 2011
I saw this book in the Deseret Book cataloge. One of the authors, Ty Mansfield, just married a friend from our ward last year. Their reception was interesting. Randy knew one of the guests from his freshman ward who has chosen to live the "alternative" lifestyle. I have such respect for Ty after reading this book. His commitment to his faith, to Christ, and to his covenants permiates the book, but he also is clear about the struggle to stay faithful. This is a must read for anyone who wants to gain more understanding and empathy for Heavenly Father's children.
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