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The Complete Texts Of Great Dialogues Of Plato
Modern translation by W.H.D. Rouse. The Plume edition contains the complete texts of The Republic, The Apology, Crito, Phaedo, Ion, Meno, Euthydemus and Symposium with a pronouncing index.
597 pages, Paperback
Published March 1, 1970
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About the author
Plato
5,117 books8,549 followersPlato (Greek: Πλάτων), born Aristocles (c. 427 – 348 BC), was an ancient Greek philosopher of the Classical period who is considered a foundational thinker in Western philosophy and an innovator of the written dialogue and dialectic forms. He raised problems for what became all the major areas of both theoretical philosophy and practical philosophy, and was the founder of the Platonic Academy, a philosophical school in Athens where Plato taught the doctrines that would later become known as Platonism.
Plato's most famous contribution is the theory of forms (or ideas), which has been interpreted as advancing a solution to what is now known as the problem of universals. He was decisively influenced by the pre-Socratic thinkers Pythagoras, Heraclitus, and Parmenides, although much of what is known about them is derived from Plato himself.
Along with his teacher Socrates, and Aristotle, his student, Plato is a central figure in the history of philosophy. Plato's entire body of work is believed to have survived intact for over 2,400 years—unlike that of nearly all of his contemporaries. Although their popularity has fluctuated, they have consistently been read and studied through the ages. Through Neoplatonism, he also greatly influenced both Christian and Islamic philosophy. In modern times, Alfred North Whitehead famously said: "the safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato."
Plato's most famous contribution is the theory of forms (or ideas), which has been interpreted as advancing a solution to what is now known as the problem of universals. He was decisively influenced by the pre-Socratic thinkers Pythagoras, Heraclitus, and Parmenides, although much of what is known about them is derived from Plato himself.
Along with his teacher Socrates, and Aristotle, his student, Plato is a central figure in the history of philosophy. Plato's entire body of work is believed to have survived intact for over 2,400 years—unlike that of nearly all of his contemporaries. Although their popularity has fluctuated, they have consistently been read and studied through the ages. Through Neoplatonism, he also greatly influenced both Christian and Islamic philosophy. In modern times, Alfred North Whitehead famously said: "the safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato."
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 129 reviews
August 12, 2008
From Meno, the dialogue between Socrates and Menon:
"Menon: And how will you try to find out something, Socrates, when you have no notion at all what it is? Will you lay out before us a thing you don't know, and then try to find it? Or, if at best you meet it by chance, how will you know this is that which you did not know?
...(nine pages later}...
Socrates: Yes, I think that I argue well, Menon. I would not be confident in everything I say about the argument; but one thing I would fight for to the end, both in word and deed if I were able - that if we believed that we must try to find out what is not known, we should be better and braver and less idle than if we believed that what we do not know it is impossible to find out and that we need not even try." p.51
Too bad we don't use the Socratic method anymore. This book rocks.
"Menon: And how will you try to find out something, Socrates, when you have no notion at all what it is? Will you lay out before us a thing you don't know, and then try to find it? Or, if at best you meet it by chance, how will you know this is that which you did not know?
...(nine pages later}...
Socrates: Yes, I think that I argue well, Menon. I would not be confident in everything I say about the argument; but one thing I would fight for to the end, both in word and deed if I were able - that if we believed that we must try to find out what is not known, we should be better and braver and less idle than if we believed that what we do not know it is impossible to find out and that we need not even try." p.51
Too bad we don't use the Socratic method anymore. This book rocks.
August 21, 2017
This book is well translated and it took me a long time to finish than anticipated. If you read these dialogues, and I mean really read them thoroughly, it will have a profound effect on how you view life and interaction. The only problem is that you really have to want to read and understand it. When you are ready to commit, buy this book, read it, and watch your outlook on how you view life change before your very eyes.
June 17, 2020
After reading The Story of Philosophy: The Lives and Opinions of the World's Greatest Philosophers by Will Durant, I was excited to begin my journey of wisdom with Plato. Socrates lays down the foundation of western thought and from here I plan to move throughout history with the philosophers that came thereafter.
This edition contains seven of Plato's greatest works and they are translated by W.H.D. Rouse. I have yet to read other translations, but I found this one to be superb and readable if this is your first time reading Plato. Plato was a splendid author and I didn't find myself dragging through verbosity or flowery poetics.
Of all the works I enjoyed The Republic and The Symposium the most. Initially Phaedo defeated me and I couldn't finish, but I came back at it with a clearer mind and finished it, and it was excellent. I felt I got to know Socrates throughout the book and I fell in love with the Socratic Method. Following the dialogue from beginning to end and seeing how he and the other interlocutors came to a conclusion through questioning was inspiring, and I plan to incorporate that into my thinking.
This edition contains seven of Plato's greatest works and they are translated by W.H.D. Rouse. I have yet to read other translations, but I found this one to be superb and readable if this is your first time reading Plato. Plato was a splendid author and I didn't find myself dragging through verbosity or flowery poetics.
Of all the works I enjoyed The Republic and The Symposium the most. Initially Phaedo defeated me and I couldn't finish, but I came back at it with a clearer mind and finished it, and it was excellent. I felt I got to know Socrates throughout the book and I fell in love with the Socratic Method. Following the dialogue from beginning to end and seeing how he and the other interlocutors came to a conclusion through questioning was inspiring, and I plan to incorporate that into my thinking.
February 9, 2012
A good translation. Includes The Apology, The Republic, Symposium, Crito, Phaedo, Meno, and Ion. The first two are a must read for everyone. The Republic takes some work getting through, but it is worth it.
June 11, 2018
Some notes:
Symposium
Does Love have an object? Yes. Love has to love something (200c). Unfortunately, this implies desire, which is a lack. Necessarily, then, Love must love beautiful things.
“justified, true belief:” “To have a right opinion without being able to give a reason is neither to understand nor is it ignorance” (202B).
The nature of spiritual: “for all the spiritual is between divine and mortal” 202c-204c. Love is a great spirit which has causal power. God cannot mingle directly with man but goes through the Forms.
Beauty is simple and we partake of Beauty only by participation (209c-211c). Language of ascent in 211c.
Republic
Book 1
Thrasymachus: Justice is whatever serves the advantage of the stronger. However, he admits that sometimes the Stronger commands the weaker to do what is not in the stronger’s advantage (e.g., when the Stronger unwittingly makes a mistake). Socrates then asks, “What is ‘advantage?’”
The practitioner of an art/scientia never seeks the advantage simply for the sake of the art (healing is not for the sake of healing, but for the body).
Beginning of a definition of justice: a kind of wisdom or virtue (350C-352A)
Book 2
Justice belongs to the noblest class, the soul. Justice is a form which has causal power (358b-360c).
Socrates is rebutting the counterargument that no one is just willingly, but only under compulsion. In responding, Socrates posits several analogues (369c):
Man = city
soul = justice
Theology
God is simple and good, so he is changeless (380a-381d). Things in the best condition are least liable to change. If something undergoes change, then it is being changed by something else (and the lesser doesn’t change the greater).
Book III
Educating to virtue, thus censorship.
A good soul by its own virtues provides a body in the best possible condition (402d-404c).
The better rulers are usually older men (408c).
There is an equivalence between concord--harmony--music--training.
The result of this concord is a soul that is both temperate and brave (410c. passim).
Remember that the individual soul is an analogue to the City.
Plato suggests a communism in regard to the training of Guardians, but we are not yet to a full communism in society (415e).
Book IV
The guardians must guard against all extremes in wealth and poverty, for these lead to idleness (422b). They must maintain the mean between wealth and poverty.
Temperance permeates all of society. It “brings all the strings into concord” (432a).
Moves back to a definition of justice:
to do one’s business and not meddle in affairs (4323-434c).
justice is the presupposition (precondition?) of the other Greek virtues: temperance, courage, intelligence.
multiplicity makes finding justice difficult.
justice maintains the harmony between classes.
We can know justice for a city by looking at a man who maintains this harmony in his soul (435a).
Anthropology
Do we learn by one faculty, feel by another, etc.?
Are the faculties within man simply synonymous or are they distinct?
They are distinct. There is something in the soul that moves towards Logos and another that moves towards the passions (438b-439e).
This is similar to Freud’s “divided mind” theory.
Plato ends Book IV with a suggestion of the 5 faculties. However, Book V is a detour
Book V
Book V is an intricate discussion on the particulars of a philosophical city. Such a city must be unified. Thus,
“So that city is best managed in which the greatest number say “mine” and ‘not mine’ with the same meaning about the same things” (462a-463d)
This sounds a lot like Augustine’s Discussion in Book IXX City of God.
Opposites and One
Since beautiful and ugly are opposites, they are two. And since they are two, each is one. Even though each of these are one, they appear as many because each shows itself everywhere in community (476a). This sounds like Maximus’s Logos/logoi. Collectively, the forms are one but they manifest themselves as many.
Discussions of Nominalism
Is there beauty in itself, or is beauty just a name?
The knower knows something, not nothing. If he knows something, he knows something that is. You can’t know what is not. Further, there is a state between knowledge and ignorance
knowledge = things that are ignorance = things that are not
knowledge is a faculty (Plato calls it a power)
Opinion is between the two; it partakes of both being and non-being. This the realm of Becoming.
Book VI
The “mob mentality” probably can’t separate “The Beautiful” from beautiful things (493e).
Archetype/ectype
“perfect model of the the Good, the use of which makes all just things” (505a-c).
Arche-writing and Trace
The ideals/forms appeal to the mind (507b). Hearing and sound inferior to seeing because they can work if the third term is absent. The following triad
sight---> light ←-color
The ectype is in relation to the archetype by analogy (508).
We have noted that the forms have causal power. Their effects are in the mind.
Hyper-ousia (509b)
The good is the cause that knowledge exists. The Good is not a state of knowledge but something beyond it. Most important sentence in the book.
Symposium
Does Love have an object? Yes. Love has to love something (200c). Unfortunately, this implies desire, which is a lack. Necessarily, then, Love must love beautiful things.
“justified, true belief:” “To have a right opinion without being able to give a reason is neither to understand nor is it ignorance” (202B).
The nature of spiritual: “for all the spiritual is between divine and mortal” 202c-204c. Love is a great spirit which has causal power. God cannot mingle directly with man but goes through the Forms.
Beauty is simple and we partake of Beauty only by participation (209c-211c). Language of ascent in 211c.
Republic
Book 1
Thrasymachus: Justice is whatever serves the advantage of the stronger. However, he admits that sometimes the Stronger commands the weaker to do what is not in the stronger’s advantage (e.g., when the Stronger unwittingly makes a mistake). Socrates then asks, “What is ‘advantage?’”
The practitioner of an art/scientia never seeks the advantage simply for the sake of the art (healing is not for the sake of healing, but for the body).
Beginning of a definition of justice: a kind of wisdom or virtue (350C-352A)
Book 2
Justice belongs to the noblest class, the soul. Justice is a form which has causal power (358b-360c).
Socrates is rebutting the counterargument that no one is just willingly, but only under compulsion. In responding, Socrates posits several analogues (369c):
Man = city
soul = justice
Theology
God is simple and good, so he is changeless (380a-381d). Things in the best condition are least liable to change. If something undergoes change, then it is being changed by something else (and the lesser doesn’t change the greater).
Book III
Educating to virtue, thus censorship.
A good soul by its own virtues provides a body in the best possible condition (402d-404c).
The better rulers are usually older men (408c).
There is an equivalence between concord--harmony--music--training.
The result of this concord is a soul that is both temperate and brave (410c. passim).
Remember that the individual soul is an analogue to the City.
Plato suggests a communism in regard to the training of Guardians, but we are not yet to a full communism in society (415e).
Book IV
The guardians must guard against all extremes in wealth and poverty, for these lead to idleness (422b). They must maintain the mean between wealth and poverty.
Temperance permeates all of society. It “brings all the strings into concord” (432a).
Moves back to a definition of justice:
to do one’s business and not meddle in affairs (4323-434c).
justice is the presupposition (precondition?) of the other Greek virtues: temperance, courage, intelligence.
multiplicity makes finding justice difficult.
justice maintains the harmony between classes.
We can know justice for a city by looking at a man who maintains this harmony in his soul (435a).
Anthropology
Do we learn by one faculty, feel by another, etc.?
Are the faculties within man simply synonymous or are they distinct?
They are distinct. There is something in the soul that moves towards Logos and another that moves towards the passions (438b-439e).
This is similar to Freud’s “divided mind” theory.
Plato ends Book IV with a suggestion of the 5 faculties. However, Book V is a detour
Book V
Book V is an intricate discussion on the particulars of a philosophical city. Such a city must be unified. Thus,
“So that city is best managed in which the greatest number say “mine” and ‘not mine’ with the same meaning about the same things” (462a-463d)
This sounds a lot like Augustine’s Discussion in Book IXX City of God.
Opposites and One
Since beautiful and ugly are opposites, they are two. And since they are two, each is one. Even though each of these are one, they appear as many because each shows itself everywhere in community (476a). This sounds like Maximus’s Logos/logoi. Collectively, the forms are one but they manifest themselves as many.
Discussions of Nominalism
Is there beauty in itself, or is beauty just a name?
The knower knows something, not nothing. If he knows something, he knows something that is. You can’t know what is not. Further, there is a state between knowledge and ignorance
knowledge = things that are ignorance = things that are not
knowledge is a faculty (Plato calls it a power)
Opinion is between the two; it partakes of both being and non-being. This the realm of Becoming.
Book VI
The “mob mentality” probably can’t separate “The Beautiful” from beautiful things (493e).
Archetype/ectype
“perfect model of the the Good, the use of which makes all just things” (505a-c).
Arche-writing and Trace
The ideals/forms appeal to the mind (507b). Hearing and sound inferior to seeing because they can work if the third term is absent. The following triad
sight---> light ←-color
The ectype is in relation to the archetype by analogy (508).
We have noted that the forms have causal power. Their effects are in the mind.
Hyper-ousia (509b)
The good is the cause that knowledge exists. The Good is not a state of knowledge but something beyond it. Most important sentence in the book.
March 23, 2018
Reading Plato's Socrates, is like following a mathematical proof, except the ends are unknown. Arguments are initiated by a question which is often shown to be irrelevant, not always. Then Socrates begins to break the discussion in what seems a totally random direction, coming to temporary conclusions that you heartily disagree with, only to see him discard those through some fancy bit of word wrangling – and bring you mostly around to what you were thinking in the first place. Sometimes. Often, I find myself disagreeing with the conclusions from a practical and theoretical standpoint. Most often, I find myself objecting to points along the way, and linkages that Socrates draws together that I find to be apples and oranges.
These dialogues suffer from yes-men. Every single Socratic discourse is constantly punctuated by someone else: “Yes,” “Of course,” “How could it be otherwise,” “It would seem to be you proved it!” I constantly wanted to jump in and say, “Well, no actually, because....” But of course, Socrates speeches are above reproach.
This aside, I did find some truth, and some things that were close and grasping at truth. In particular, I was enchanted by Plato's conclusions near the end of the republic on the nature of man, particularly as regards pleasure and higher fulfillment and as regards the tyrannical man who is ostensibly free, but in reality a slave to his desires. This man, Plato, in the voice of Socrates, states must be ruled by one who is just and master of himself. Here, Plato and I diverge a bit as I believe all men are not capable of being this just and mastered ruler, though they can succeed to various degrees.
I, often, enjoyed the back and forth, with the objections listed above. Though, in reality, I found very little practical use. Aside from a resurgence of good speech, and somewhat lost art.
Incidentally, being a Christian and fairly well-read and studied in the Bible and the things thereof, I found in this work fascinating insights into the way people of this time (though written 3 centuries prior, centuries moved slower then) thought: the way the written word carried weight, especially 1 or 2 important works; the way people interacted with the gods; the way people considered the gods and their attributes; among several other things. The parallels and connections in how Jesus would have interacted and been perceived in that time period, including the ways in which he was counter-cultural, I found to be fascinating.
These dialogues suffer from yes-men. Every single Socratic discourse is constantly punctuated by someone else: “Yes,” “Of course,” “How could it be otherwise,” “It would seem to be you proved it!” I constantly wanted to jump in and say, “Well, no actually, because....” But of course, Socrates speeches are above reproach.
This aside, I did find some truth, and some things that were close and grasping at truth. In particular, I was enchanted by Plato's conclusions near the end of the republic on the nature of man, particularly as regards pleasure and higher fulfillment and as regards the tyrannical man who is ostensibly free, but in reality a slave to his desires. This man, Plato, in the voice of Socrates, states must be ruled by one who is just and master of himself. Here, Plato and I diverge a bit as I believe all men are not capable of being this just and mastered ruler, though they can succeed to various degrees.
I, often, enjoyed the back and forth, with the objections listed above. Though, in reality, I found very little practical use. Aside from a resurgence of good speech, and somewhat lost art.
Incidentally, being a Christian and fairly well-read and studied in the Bible and the things thereof, I found in this work fascinating insights into the way people of this time (though written 3 centuries prior, centuries moved slower then) thought: the way the written word carried weight, especially 1 or 2 important works; the way people interacted with the gods; the way people considered the gods and their attributes; among several other things. The parallels and connections in how Jesus would have interacted and been perceived in that time period, including the ways in which he was counter-cultural, I found to be fascinating.
October 30, 2025
Here is the summary of these dialogues in my language:
Ion
Socrates is preying on some ancient MC, Ion, who spits epic bars n sells out stadiums, tho his whole discography is just covers of Homer. So, the creepy old man Socrates pulls up n starts questioning whether Ion got any real skill or whether it's Jesus behind the wheel. In essence, the whole Socratic routine of tryna rob people of certainty and confidence in exchange for thinking long and hard until you are no longer long and hard. Classic Socratic shade, all about what true knowledge really is.
Meno
Socrates tryna sneak up on Meno about whether virtue is taught or innate. Socrates flips the whole convo like he lost at monopoly, leaves Meno clueless, classic trolling. Then there's that whole "recollection" bit--Socrates saying we already know stuff, just gotta dig it out like it's minecraft. Next slide: makes a slave boy do geometry, aka we all got it in us all along, basically just Plato anticipating all that a priori knowledge shits. The whole thing is really just Socrates praying on young boys tryna flex his trolling game yet again.
Symposium
A bunch of dudes getting progressively more wasted while dropping their takes on love. It's one of those lowkey functions where u and the homies go on a banter about love n tryna one-up each other on who can get more poetic about the ting. Socrates comes in late in the game, drops some bars about snakes and ladders except it's about how love starts shallow and levels up to something pure and absolute, etc. The whole thing is basically about grandpa turning drinking sesh into a deep dive on the essence of love, classic Socrates move. Everyone else is just tipsy and impressed.
The Republic
Plato be bar-hopping through justice, politics, the ultimate nature of reality, and all that wild shit. Dude had a lot of foresight into the way we still deal with appearance vs reality topics today. Then u got the realm of forms shits, aka, can we get real abstract real quick? Mans out here saying there is some perfect abstract version of everything just chillin, and that really done did lay the groundwork for a lot of the theories we still mess with today. Son killed it.
Philosopher-kings, the allegory of the cave--all that big brain stuff. Basically saying that some folk are just built different, and yeah, it's kinda elitist, but onto smth.
The Apology
Socrates out here in court defending himself, bro got no chill, dissing them Athenians for being ungrateful for his efforts at keepin them woke. Calls himself the gadfly, but really just tryna excuse his trolling schemes by gaslighting them into thinking that they need to be trolled. All in all, just Socrates being Socrates, leaving everyone uncomfortable and dropping mic-worthy lines.
Crito
The convict Socrates finally behind bars when his homie Crito pulls up tryna bust him out. Crito be like, "Bro, you gotta escape, peeps gon think ur moves are weak." But Socrates hits him back with, "Nah fam, gotta respect the laws, even if they trash." Some might say it's about staying true to your principles. Others might see a clear substance abuse pathology--old man tryna get zooted off hemlock while still tryna go down as the GOAT, which, even tho it's just some multi-layered fantasy Plato cooked up, still manages to sell. Broski Plato aint letting his PR Management certificate from Coursera go to waste.
Phaedo
Socrates getting his hemlock fix, starts trippin about the immortality of the soul. Bro really just won't admit that he copped a mad L by getting his ass into jail w his antics, so he just tryna save face w the whole "dying ain't even that deep" vibe. This really be just Plato, the lil TV-drama producer tryna kill off a character in most generous a manner. Respect.
All in all, Plato is the sauce man, he got the sauce and he be saucing it to the moon and back, from Ion to Phaedo, issa banger after banger, and the industry is still shooketh. Bro a legend. A+
Ion
Socrates is preying on some ancient MC, Ion, who spits epic bars n sells out stadiums, tho his whole discography is just covers of Homer. So, the creepy old man Socrates pulls up n starts questioning whether Ion got any real skill or whether it's Jesus behind the wheel. In essence, the whole Socratic routine of tryna rob people of certainty and confidence in exchange for thinking long and hard until you are no longer long and hard. Classic Socratic shade, all about what true knowledge really is.
Meno
Socrates tryna sneak up on Meno about whether virtue is taught or innate. Socrates flips the whole convo like he lost at monopoly, leaves Meno clueless, classic trolling. Then there's that whole "recollection" bit--Socrates saying we already know stuff, just gotta dig it out like it's minecraft. Next slide: makes a slave boy do geometry, aka we all got it in us all along, basically just Plato anticipating all that a priori knowledge shits. The whole thing is really just Socrates praying on young boys tryna flex his trolling game yet again.
Symposium
A bunch of dudes getting progressively more wasted while dropping their takes on love. It's one of those lowkey functions where u and the homies go on a banter about love n tryna one-up each other on who can get more poetic about the ting. Socrates comes in late in the game, drops some bars about snakes and ladders except it's about how love starts shallow and levels up to something pure and absolute, etc. The whole thing is basically about grandpa turning drinking sesh into a deep dive on the essence of love, classic Socrates move. Everyone else is just tipsy and impressed.
The Republic
Plato be bar-hopping through justice, politics, the ultimate nature of reality, and all that wild shit. Dude had a lot of foresight into the way we still deal with appearance vs reality topics today. Then u got the realm of forms shits, aka, can we get real abstract real quick? Mans out here saying there is some perfect abstract version of everything just chillin, and that really done did lay the groundwork for a lot of the theories we still mess with today. Son killed it.
Philosopher-kings, the allegory of the cave--all that big brain stuff. Basically saying that some folk are just built different, and yeah, it's kinda elitist, but onto smth.
The Apology
Socrates out here in court defending himself, bro got no chill, dissing them Athenians for being ungrateful for his efforts at keepin them woke. Calls himself the gadfly, but really just tryna excuse his trolling schemes by gaslighting them into thinking that they need to be trolled. All in all, just Socrates being Socrates, leaving everyone uncomfortable and dropping mic-worthy lines.
Crito
The convict Socrates finally behind bars when his homie Crito pulls up tryna bust him out. Crito be like, "Bro, you gotta escape, peeps gon think ur moves are weak." But Socrates hits him back with, "Nah fam, gotta respect the laws, even if they trash." Some might say it's about staying true to your principles. Others might see a clear substance abuse pathology--old man tryna get zooted off hemlock while still tryna go down as the GOAT, which, even tho it's just some multi-layered fantasy Plato cooked up, still manages to sell. Broski Plato aint letting his PR Management certificate from Coursera go to waste.
Phaedo
Socrates getting his hemlock fix, starts trippin about the immortality of the soul. Bro really just won't admit that he copped a mad L by getting his ass into jail w his antics, so he just tryna save face w the whole "dying ain't even that deep" vibe. This really be just Plato, the lil TV-drama producer tryna kill off a character in most generous a manner. Respect.
All in all, Plato is the sauce man, he got the sauce and he be saucing it to the moon and back, from Ion to Phaedo, issa banger after banger, and the industry is still shooketh. Bro a legend. A+
April 16, 2013
I read this a young, high school level student. Keeping that in mind, the word are clear, concise, and thoughtfully chosen. However, the tragedy of my youth was the lack of understanding and depth to which Plato's idea resonated through time. This philosophy is a great foundation from which to build your cognitive processes keeping in mind that the meaning to many of the passages changes as one ages. It is in this where this sometimes hard to read text shines. I recommend this to all young thinkers, but recommend you take your time with it as it takes some time to digest.
December 25, 2019
When reading Plato, you have to be dynamic. You have to set yourself in that position discussed, and then move around. Ask, seek some answers to find more questions, then ask again, and meet only confusion. Here comes Socrates, he'll make sure your process never stops. And what do you get eventually? You'll get the great dialogues.
No piece of philosophical work ever touched me this way. It is both a blessing and a curse to be an idealist, you will only face disappointments. I wish that someday I'll have such exciting talks.
No piece of philosophical work ever touched me this way. It is both a blessing and a curse to be an idealist, you will only face disappointments. I wish that someday I'll have such exciting talks.
Read
May 16, 2024ancient freaking greek history is actually my least favorite class and the republic honestly needs to not be printed ever again for the TORTUREEEEEE i just endured BUT THE READING GOAL ISNT COMPLETING ITSELF😤😤
July 13, 2020
I was expecting this to be a much more difficult read that it turned out to be. There's certainly a lot to think about within the pages of this book, and this translation makes it easier to focus of what is being said instead of tripping over the language.
Having previously read through Socrates' works, this felt like a very natural step forward into the idea of universalism for a layman like me.
Having previously read through Socrates' works, this felt like a very natural step forward into the idea of universalism for a layman like me.
Read
October 20, 2024I probably understood, at the very most, 1/3 of the book… Phenomenal read though!
I would recommend reading SYMPOSIUM: a bunch of drunk friends get together to talk about their idea of where love comes from, be it by introducing new Gods and myths or through reason.
To get an idea of Aristotle’s way of thinking read MENO, CRITO or PHAEDO.
THE REPUBLIC is filled with many of Plato’s famous ideas (e.g. allegory of the cave) but is painstakingly long, and most of the stylistically beautiful aspects are lost in translation (unless I completely missed them). Nonetheless, I liked hearing these ideas in “the original (albeit translated) words”
It’s phenomenal to read certain chapters by themselves! Do not read all dialogues consecutively like I did 😅
I would recommend reading SYMPOSIUM: a bunch of drunk friends get together to talk about their idea of where love comes from, be it by introducing new Gods and myths or through reason.
To get an idea of Aristotle’s way of thinking read MENO, CRITO or PHAEDO.
THE REPUBLIC is filled with many of Plato’s famous ideas (e.g. allegory of the cave) but is painstakingly long, and most of the stylistically beautiful aspects are lost in translation (unless I completely missed them). Nonetheless, I liked hearing these ideas in “the original (albeit translated) words”
It’s phenomenal to read certain chapters by themselves! Do not read all dialogues consecutively like I did 😅
May 12, 2020
I have read most of the pieces of this book in The Trial and Death of Socrates (Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, Phaedo and in The Republic. I read all the pieces aside from Meno, which is basically contemplation on the question of 'What is a Virtue'? I found it incredibly boring to read, but all other parts was semi-tolerable. For the most part, it is a good read and nicely put together (if you are into old-dead Greek men as intellectual founders of the West).
Plato and his followers:
*Like other Greeks of the time, they had slaves and they thought about them as 'possesions'
*Some greek academics claim the concept of race didn't exist back then, and therefore these men were not racists. I feel that they were definitely racist.
*The Greeks could not comprehend an absence of slaves. Slaves exist even in the "Cloudcuckooland" of Aristophanes' The Birds as well as in the ideal cities of Plato's Laws or Republic.
*The role of Greek women was limited to household work and child-caring.
*The role of Slave women is not even clearly known, but we can imagine that.
*They looked down upon women and kids.
*Their so-called cutting-edge method of thinking was ultra-hierarchical. Always looking for the 'best/worst' and 'better/worse' in anything.
*Their object was to classify everything into a limited box of eternal truths.
*They thought of themselves as wise/sage, a serviceman of God, and better humans than everyday people.
*They thought their works contain moral superiority.
A positive aspect of this book: it can help us understand why the 'philosophy' section of the bookstore is usually next to the 'religion' section. On the condition of ancient Greek city-states, I read a good essay by David Castriota: "Feminizing the barbarian and barbarizing the feminine: amazons, trojans, and Persians in the stoa poikile" . After all, I have to side with Nietzsche when he said: "He [Socrates] was wrong because he was ugly."
Plato and his followers:
*Like other Greeks of the time, they had slaves and they thought about them as 'possesions'
*Some greek academics claim the concept of race didn't exist back then, and therefore these men were not racists. I feel that they were definitely racist.
*The Greeks could not comprehend an absence of slaves. Slaves exist even in the "Cloudcuckooland" of Aristophanes' The Birds as well as in the ideal cities of Plato's Laws or Republic.
*The role of Greek women was limited to household work and child-caring.
*The role of Slave women is not even clearly known, but we can imagine that.
*They looked down upon women and kids.
*Their so-called cutting-edge method of thinking was ultra-hierarchical. Always looking for the 'best/worst' and 'better/worse' in anything.
*Their object was to classify everything into a limited box of eternal truths.
*They thought of themselves as wise/sage, a serviceman of God, and better humans than everyday people.
*They thought their works contain moral superiority.
A positive aspect of this book: it can help us understand why the 'philosophy' section of the bookstore is usually next to the 'religion' section. On the condition of ancient Greek city-states, I read a good essay by David Castriota: "Feminizing the barbarian and barbarizing the feminine: amazons, trojans, and Persians in the stoa poikile" . After all, I have to side with Nietzsche when he said: "He [Socrates] was wrong because he was ugly."
January 10, 2022
“The truth is that whenever I speak about philosophy myself or hear others doing so, I am highly delighted, besides believing that it does me good. But when I hear other kinds of talk, especially among you rich men and moneymakers, it annoys me, and I pity you, because you are doing nothing while you think you are doing something.” —Apollodoros, 71
Socrates teaches us how to think, how to find the answer to any question on earth. Even what happens after death is not beyond his grasp.
Socrates teaches us how to think, how to find the answer to any question on earth. Even what happens after death is not beyond his grasp.
August 4, 2011
One of the best greek philosophers.
July 27, 2020
Plato, Aristotle, Socrates? Morons
January 28, 2024
I am now more enamored of the questions and probing by Socrates and his circle than their answers and manner. The last time I read The Republic I felt for poor Cephalus for the way Socrates rudely treated him. Now in this collection of Plato's collected recollections of Socrates, I feel the same for Meno. Meno too is set up, ridiculed, and harangued until he must exit the scene, miffed surely. No wonder he ended up with such a low approval rating that he was sentenced to death. It seems from Socrates' closing arguments in his trial, he noticed how some found his behavior repugnant:
Three things that jumped out to me in this edition with excellent footnotes. First is Socrates' allusions to the voices he heard in his head and the Myth of Er. Hearing voices is a symptom of some mental health problems, including psychosis, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, schizoaffective disorder, or severe depression. Second is the Myth of Er, which is an account of the cosmos and the afterlife that greatly influenced religious, philosophical, and scientific thought for many centuries. It reads like an NDE hallucination. Finally is the role the Iliad and other period writings then a few centuries old were commonly quoted and taken for granted as sacred texts of religious authority.
...I thought this man seemed to be wise both to many others and especially to himself, but that he was not; and then I tried to show him that he thought he was wise, but was not. Because of that he disliked me and so did many others who were there, but I went away thinking to myself that I was wiser than this man; the fact is that neither of us knows anything beautiful and good, but he thinks he does know when he doesn't, and I don't know and don't think I do: so I am wiser than he is by only this trifle, that what I do not know I don't think I do. After that I tried another, one of those reputed to be wiser than that man and I thought just the same; then he and many others took a dislike to me.
So I went to one after another after that, and saw that I was disliked; and I sorrowed and feared...
Three things that jumped out to me in this edition with excellent footnotes. First is Socrates' allusions to the voices he heard in his head and the Myth of Er. Hearing voices is a symptom of some mental health problems, including psychosis, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, schizoaffective disorder, or severe depression. Second is the Myth of Er, which is an account of the cosmos and the afterlife that greatly influenced religious, philosophical, and scientific thought for many centuries. It reads like an NDE hallucination. Finally is the role the Iliad and other period writings then a few centuries old were commonly quoted and taken for granted as sacred texts of religious authority.
November 11, 2019
'The unexamined life is not worth living', says Plato, talking through Socrates.
This book is actually a collection of Plato's dialogues which are various books including mainly 'The Republic' and 'The Apology'. The Apology is about Socrates noble stand to face the consequences of his sentence of death and his choice to die for his principles.
The Republic covers something that anyone would be interested in from metaphysics to theology, ethics to psychology, theory of education, theory of statesmanship, theory of art, feminism and birth control, communism and socialism, eugenics and libertarianism, and aristocracy and democracy.
Socrates asks questions such as 'what is virtue?', 'can virtue be taught?', 'is injustice more profitable than justice?'
This book is a hard read at 600 pages and considering how deep and complex some of the theories and propositions, perhaps I end up believing exactly what Socrates said about himself, that he only knew that he nothing at all.
Just as you feel everything is too complicated and overwhelming you start to apply some of the thinking to everyday situations around you. Then you realise the genius of this book and how much it needs to be studied and re-read and reconsidered and re-thought. Perhaps a lifelong pursuit!
This book is actually a collection of Plato's dialogues which are various books including mainly 'The Republic' and 'The Apology'. The Apology is about Socrates noble stand to face the consequences of his sentence of death and his choice to die for his principles.
The Republic covers something that anyone would be interested in from metaphysics to theology, ethics to psychology, theory of education, theory of statesmanship, theory of art, feminism and birth control, communism and socialism, eugenics and libertarianism, and aristocracy and democracy.
Socrates asks questions such as 'what is virtue?', 'can virtue be taught?', 'is injustice more profitable than justice?'
This book is a hard read at 600 pages and considering how deep and complex some of the theories and propositions, perhaps I end up believing exactly what Socrates said about himself, that he only knew that he nothing at all.
Just as you feel everything is too complicated and overwhelming you start to apply some of the thinking to everyday situations around you. Then you realise the genius of this book and how much it needs to be studied and re-read and reconsidered and re-thought. Perhaps a lifelong pursuit!
January 25, 2025
I’d decided to start off the reading year with a challenging one. It was definitely rewarding but required thoughtful reading, ideally with a notebook, and accompanied by moments where I put it down and just thought about what I’d just read.
Many dialogues thankfully can be read as fiction, in the sense that they have dramatic value and lively characters. Others are rather dry and too drowned in language paradoxes, which makes them quite easily refutable from the modern standpoint.
Many dialogues thankfully can be read as fiction, in the sense that they have dramatic value and lively characters. Others are rather dry and too drowned in language paradoxes, which makes them quite easily refutable from the modern standpoint.
dnf
April 6, 2025Precitane Ion, Meno, Symposium a pol Republiky. Jedneho dna sa k Platonovi vratim ale v poslednej dobe som cital privela filozofie a potrebujem od nej oddych.
Read
September 19, 2023Read approximately 40% for a history of philosophy class. This book is a good translation and a quality collection of some of the main works of Plato.
August 16, 2018
This took me a long time to read, but it’s so dense and is difficult to read in 30 minute chunks on the bus. It’s also not something I would choose to read straight form beginning to end, opting instead to break it up with fiction or other non-fiction books.
I was introduced to Plato and Socrates in first year university; you could say my imagination and critical thinking skills experienced an awakening then. I will always have a special place in my heart for these two indistinguishable philosophers, particularly for the axiom that “the unexamined life is not worth living.”
Reading “The Trial and Death of Socrates” taught me about careful argumentation and rhetoric. It also taught me to question people’s claims and beliefs, and to not accept things at face value. This might sound like hyperbole or a romantic recounting of university, but it’s not: Socrates and Plato had one of the most significant impacts on my young life, and the spirit of inquiry and curiosity they engendered in me has (I hope) carried on to this day.
This collection covers a lot of ground, and it allowed me to rediscover my love of some of these ideas, and to expand my understanding of Socrates the man and the philosopher. For instance, I learned that Socrates believes that art is a result of divine inspiration. I learned that he revered Homer. And I learned that he believes in the immortality of the soul and that all knowledge is simply recollection. While I don’t necessarily agree with all of these ideas, I like to imagine the truth and usefulness of them.
The Republic takes up the bulk of this collection. Admittedly, I had never read it before picking up this collection (for one Canadian dollar at a garage sale, by the way). It’s very dense, and I actually found it to be one of the least enjoyable parts of the set, and the one I took most issue with when it came to some of the claims regarding the ideal society. Nevertheless, it was certainly engaging if nothing else.
I could probably say more, but I’ll stop and say that if you ever get a chance to study Socrates and Plato in school, do it. It could change your life. Reading these books and dialogues in a vacuum has its own benefits, but their true power comes with fruitful discussion and analysis between curious minds.
I was introduced to Plato and Socrates in first year university; you could say my imagination and critical thinking skills experienced an awakening then. I will always have a special place in my heart for these two indistinguishable philosophers, particularly for the axiom that “the unexamined life is not worth living.”
Reading “The Trial and Death of Socrates” taught me about careful argumentation and rhetoric. It also taught me to question people’s claims and beliefs, and to not accept things at face value. This might sound like hyperbole or a romantic recounting of university, but it’s not: Socrates and Plato had one of the most significant impacts on my young life, and the spirit of inquiry and curiosity they engendered in me has (I hope) carried on to this day.
This collection covers a lot of ground, and it allowed me to rediscover my love of some of these ideas, and to expand my understanding of Socrates the man and the philosopher. For instance, I learned that Socrates believes that art is a result of divine inspiration. I learned that he revered Homer. And I learned that he believes in the immortality of the soul and that all knowledge is simply recollection. While I don’t necessarily agree with all of these ideas, I like to imagine the truth and usefulness of them.
The Republic takes up the bulk of this collection. Admittedly, I had never read it before picking up this collection (for one Canadian dollar at a garage sale, by the way). It’s very dense, and I actually found it to be one of the least enjoyable parts of the set, and the one I took most issue with when it came to some of the claims regarding the ideal society. Nevertheless, it was certainly engaging if nothing else.
I could probably say more, but I’ll stop and say that if you ever get a chance to study Socrates and Plato in school, do it. It could change your life. Reading these books and dialogues in a vacuum has its own benefits, but their true power comes with fruitful discussion and analysis between curious minds.
January 12, 2020
Good collection of dialogues plus The Republic
September 2, 2011
DONE! Been reading this book for just almost two years!! Faithfulness to the original style and structure of the dialogues is both strength and weakness: it recreates the experience of Socrates' teaching method and creates a compelling narrative by following Socrates through his trial and execution.
Unfortunately, it is also a bit rambling and takes some time getting to the point of a line of questioning. Many anecdotes and turns of phrase are extremely anachronistic (a few are almost incomprehensible even with Rouse's footnotes). No matter the problems with style (which is no reflection on Plato or his translator, but 2500 years of development in written conventions and the laziness of this reader's ear), the ideas under discussion are fascinating and the drama of Socrates' final days is faithfully and powerfully captured.
The Republic's book-by-book summary was invaluable and Rouse's translation is as modern as possible. Great!
Unfortunately, it is also a bit rambling and takes some time getting to the point of a line of questioning. Many anecdotes and turns of phrase are extremely anachronistic (a few are almost incomprehensible even with Rouse's footnotes). No matter the problems with style (which is no reflection on Plato or his translator, but 2500 years of development in written conventions and the laziness of this reader's ear), the ideas under discussion are fascinating and the drama of Socrates' final days is faithfully and powerfully captured.
The Republic's book-by-book summary was invaluable and Rouse's translation is as modern as possible. Great!
October 4, 2012
One of, not just of philosophy's cornerstone texts, but of my own personal views. That isn't to say I actually agree or believe everything Plato says (I find many arguments with his 'innate logic' as well as his views on government), but his method and practice are such that few can hold a candle to the eloquence and captivation that Plato wrote with. The Socratic method is a great tool for understanding and discovery, and many texts also develop a great deal of insight into the lives of the times.
December 10, 2011
This was probably the first book of Plato's dialogs, some of them at least, which I ever owned. I believe it was purchased used from the Maine South H.S. bookstore and may actually have been read before college matriculation. Later it was replaced on the shelves by Jowett's complete, two-volume edition.
February 17, 2011
Not pleased with the translation. It was tough to understand. Very disappointing as most of these works chronicled the thoughts of Socrates who is one of my favorite philosophers.
May 23, 2013
By no means is reading this even remotely as enjoyable as playing with the clay "Plato" out of the jar to make things with (like dinosaurs, or balls).
February 21, 2018
What can I say, I love Plato. This book is a collection of the best & the translation is wonderful.
June 30, 2013
The Dialogues are conversations written by Plato around or about his mentor, Socrates. Socrates is my favorite philosopher for a number of reasons. The word, Philosopher, is a Greek word that literally translates: Lover of Wisdom. It is both a mode of critical thinking and a way of life, and Socrates is philosopher supreme. Plato's cool too, but I wish to know which of these dialogues was Socrates and which Plato. This appears to be in dispute. In any case, this took a long time to read. Classics ramble. But the little gems made it very worth it. Socrates embodies everything I love about philosophy. His sharply inquisitive mind and acute self-awareness. "The unexamined life is not worth living." His humility. "I know that I know nothing." In addition to the tradition of him bowing to a satirical depiction of himself at a play. His words of praise for love in Symposium and extolling Justice in the Republic. All of it incredible in spite of the long speeches, friendliness to Soviet style communism, and absurd lines of reasoning (though not absurd for their time, perhaps). And most particularly his heroic example at the end, of spiritual attainment and graceful submission to an unjust penal system. Here are some more of those gems:
Of course everything in the Allegory of the Cave in the Republic. Possibly the greatest thing ever written. He describes in beautiful language how everyone is sitting in chains at the end of a cave. They can't move, but must watch the wall and the shadows of images projected on it. If we break free of these chains and turn around, we see a fire projecting the shadow images on the wall via ceramic shapes of plants and animals that are moved in front of the flames. But if we then exit the cave, we can view the real world rather than the imitations, or even shadows of imitations. It seems to be both a theory on material forms and a set up for the political structure of their utopia. I have multiple ways to apply or interpret it. In the aforementioned, the outside real world could be atoms, or their deeper components of quarks, muons, and leptons. Or perhaps even strings. Rather than the projected wholes or descriptions of these pieces. In politics, Socrates argues that he who makes it out of the cave will be tempted to stay there and enjoy the comfort and beauty, but he must go back in and free the others. On metaphysics, there is an obvious spiritual path of ascension to greater knowledge, wisdom, awareness, peace, purity, and freedom. Maybe the cave dwellers that watch the wall in modern day are people that watch a lot of tv and believe everything they see. The cave is indeed the crown of the dialogues as most readers will likely agree.
Later, Socrates talks about different forms of government. Of the problems inherent in democracy, oligarchy, tyranny, etc. Most poignant to me is when he mentions the role of money in politics. As the Citizen's United ruling changed the way our democracy works, moving towards the plutocratic oligarchy described here in book eight seems prophetic. "...according to property when the rich govern and the poor have no share in government... First they invent ways of spending for themselves. Neither they nor their wives obey the law, but they pervert them to support this... They push ahead with their money. The more they value money, the less they value virtue." And the final foresight of what the growing wealth gap will create: "A city of that sort is not one but two of necessity. A city of the rich and city of the poor, living together and always plotting against each other." And then he attributes the high crime rates of the poor to poor education and environment. It then talks about how a dictator will rise up as a savior to a desperate people amidst chaos, that all he needs is an obedient mob. Sound familiar? (Interesting that he uses the word comrades when talking about these mobs).
So Socrates warns about these drones (referring to the bee). People that just do as they are told with no questioning. He says that the ruler of this republic, who has left the cave, must teach them. Basically help them leave the cave as he/she did. We need more leaders like that today. "We think it better to be ruled by the divine and wise, if possible having this as his own within himself... establishing a constitution within himself... Keeping his eyes fixed on the constitution within himself." And notably, he says this noble totalitarianism does not exist on earth, but is in heaven as a model for us. Perhaps like a 'Kingdom of Heaven' emulated as a church here?
His death, a martyrdom, is an inspiring example. Accused to be corrupting the youth and for impiety for not believing in the pantheon of gods. He makes a case that the charges are lies from hypocritical people. But accepts the conviction when sentenced to death. He has the opportunity to escape with his friends, but turns it down because it would accomplish little good and he believes in supporting the justice system. He is not afraid or sad to die in the slightest, convinced he is going to spiritual salvation and immortality of mind where he will be yet more free to think and learn.
Now for some awesome phrases that stood out to me:
"...and all things in the end become immortal."
"For the gods of a surety never neglect one who earnestly desires to be just, and by practicing virtue to become as like God as it is possible for man to be."
"Many thanks for your kindness, gentlemen, but I will obey the god rather than you, and as long as I have breath in me, and am able to do it, I will never cease being a philosopher, and exhorting you."
"All I do is to go about and try to persuade you, both young and old, not to care for your bodies or your monies first, and to care more exceedingly for the soul, to make it as good as possible; and I tell you that virtue comes not from money, but from virtue comes both money and all other good things for mankind, both in private and in public."
"I will never do anything else, even if I am to die many deaths."
"For the state is like a big thoroughbred horse, so big that he is a bit slow and heavy, and wants a gadfly to wake him up. I think the god put me on the state something like that, to wake you up and persuade you and reproach you every one... you will be vexed perhaps, like sleepers being awakened."
"No, gentlemen, the difficult thing is not to escape death, I think, but to escape wickedness."
"For if you believe that by putting men to death you will stop everyone from reproaching you because your life is wrong, you make a great mistake; for this riddance is neither possible or honorable; but another life is most honorable and most easy, not to cut off lives, but to offer yourselves readily to be made as good as can be. There is my prophecy to those who condemned me and I make an end."
"And now it is time to go, I to die, and you to live; but which of us goes to a better thing is unknown to all but God."
"...if we are not infected with its (our bodies) nature, but keep ourselves pure from it until God himself shall set us free from it. And so, pure and rid of the body's foolishness, we shall be in the company of those like ourselves, and shall know like ourselves complete incontamination, and that perhaps is the truth. But for the impure to grasp the impure, it seems, is not allowed."
"As I say then, lovers of learning understand that philosophy, taking possession of their soul in this state, greatly encourages it and tries to free it, by showing that surveying through the eyes is full of deceit, and so is perception through the ears and other senses; she persuades the soul to withdraw from these, except so far as there is necessity to use them, and exhorts it to collect itself and to gather itself into itself, and to trust nothing at all but itself."
From his contemporary, Simmias: "For I think, as perhaps you do, Socrates, that to know the truth of matters in this present life is impossible, or at least very difficult; but only a very soft man would refuse to test in every way what is said about them and would give up before examining them all over till he was tired out. I think a man's duty is one of two things: either to be taught or to find out where the truth is, or if he cannot, to take the best possible human doctrine and the hardest to disprove, and to ride on this like a raft on the waters of life and to take the risk; unless he could have a more seaworthy vessel to carry him more safely and with less danger, some divine doctrine to bring him through."
"Don't let us be 'misologues', hating arguments as misanthropes hate men; The worst disease one can have is to hate arguments. Misology and misanthropy come in the same way. Misanthropy is put on by believing someone completely without discrimination, and thinking the man to be speaking the truth wholly and wholesomely, and then finding out afterward that he is bad and untrustworthy and quite different."
"Many are called but few are chosen." -A twist on an old Greek saying.
"...but I am conscious that arguments proved from likelihood are humbugs."
"So I thought I must take refuge in reasoning, to examine the truth of the realities."
Of course everything in the Allegory of the Cave in the Republic. Possibly the greatest thing ever written. He describes in beautiful language how everyone is sitting in chains at the end of a cave. They can't move, but must watch the wall and the shadows of images projected on it. If we break free of these chains and turn around, we see a fire projecting the shadow images on the wall via ceramic shapes of plants and animals that are moved in front of the flames. But if we then exit the cave, we can view the real world rather than the imitations, or even shadows of imitations. It seems to be both a theory on material forms and a set up for the political structure of their utopia. I have multiple ways to apply or interpret it. In the aforementioned, the outside real world could be atoms, or their deeper components of quarks, muons, and leptons. Or perhaps even strings. Rather than the projected wholes or descriptions of these pieces. In politics, Socrates argues that he who makes it out of the cave will be tempted to stay there and enjoy the comfort and beauty, but he must go back in and free the others. On metaphysics, there is an obvious spiritual path of ascension to greater knowledge, wisdom, awareness, peace, purity, and freedom. Maybe the cave dwellers that watch the wall in modern day are people that watch a lot of tv and believe everything they see. The cave is indeed the crown of the dialogues as most readers will likely agree.
Later, Socrates talks about different forms of government. Of the problems inherent in democracy, oligarchy, tyranny, etc. Most poignant to me is when he mentions the role of money in politics. As the Citizen's United ruling changed the way our democracy works, moving towards the plutocratic oligarchy described here in book eight seems prophetic. "...according to property when the rich govern and the poor have no share in government... First they invent ways of spending for themselves. Neither they nor their wives obey the law, but they pervert them to support this... They push ahead with their money. The more they value money, the less they value virtue." And the final foresight of what the growing wealth gap will create: "A city of that sort is not one but two of necessity. A city of the rich and city of the poor, living together and always plotting against each other." And then he attributes the high crime rates of the poor to poor education and environment. It then talks about how a dictator will rise up as a savior to a desperate people amidst chaos, that all he needs is an obedient mob. Sound familiar? (Interesting that he uses the word comrades when talking about these mobs).
So Socrates warns about these drones (referring to the bee). People that just do as they are told with no questioning. He says that the ruler of this republic, who has left the cave, must teach them. Basically help them leave the cave as he/she did. We need more leaders like that today. "We think it better to be ruled by the divine and wise, if possible having this as his own within himself... establishing a constitution within himself... Keeping his eyes fixed on the constitution within himself." And notably, he says this noble totalitarianism does not exist on earth, but is in heaven as a model for us. Perhaps like a 'Kingdom of Heaven' emulated as a church here?
His death, a martyrdom, is an inspiring example. Accused to be corrupting the youth and for impiety for not believing in the pantheon of gods. He makes a case that the charges are lies from hypocritical people. But accepts the conviction when sentenced to death. He has the opportunity to escape with his friends, but turns it down because it would accomplish little good and he believes in supporting the justice system. He is not afraid or sad to die in the slightest, convinced he is going to spiritual salvation and immortality of mind where he will be yet more free to think and learn.
Now for some awesome phrases that stood out to me:
"...and all things in the end become immortal."
"For the gods of a surety never neglect one who earnestly desires to be just, and by practicing virtue to become as like God as it is possible for man to be."
"Many thanks for your kindness, gentlemen, but I will obey the god rather than you, and as long as I have breath in me, and am able to do it, I will never cease being a philosopher, and exhorting you."
"All I do is to go about and try to persuade you, both young and old, not to care for your bodies or your monies first, and to care more exceedingly for the soul, to make it as good as possible; and I tell you that virtue comes not from money, but from virtue comes both money and all other good things for mankind, both in private and in public."
"I will never do anything else, even if I am to die many deaths."
"For the state is like a big thoroughbred horse, so big that he is a bit slow and heavy, and wants a gadfly to wake him up. I think the god put me on the state something like that, to wake you up and persuade you and reproach you every one... you will be vexed perhaps, like sleepers being awakened."
"No, gentlemen, the difficult thing is not to escape death, I think, but to escape wickedness."
"For if you believe that by putting men to death you will stop everyone from reproaching you because your life is wrong, you make a great mistake; for this riddance is neither possible or honorable; but another life is most honorable and most easy, not to cut off lives, but to offer yourselves readily to be made as good as can be. There is my prophecy to those who condemned me and I make an end."
"And now it is time to go, I to die, and you to live; but which of us goes to a better thing is unknown to all but God."
"...if we are not infected with its (our bodies) nature, but keep ourselves pure from it until God himself shall set us free from it. And so, pure and rid of the body's foolishness, we shall be in the company of those like ourselves, and shall know like ourselves complete incontamination, and that perhaps is the truth. But for the impure to grasp the impure, it seems, is not allowed."
"As I say then, lovers of learning understand that philosophy, taking possession of their soul in this state, greatly encourages it and tries to free it, by showing that surveying through the eyes is full of deceit, and so is perception through the ears and other senses; she persuades the soul to withdraw from these, except so far as there is necessity to use them, and exhorts it to collect itself and to gather itself into itself, and to trust nothing at all but itself."
From his contemporary, Simmias: "For I think, as perhaps you do, Socrates, that to know the truth of matters in this present life is impossible, or at least very difficult; but only a very soft man would refuse to test in every way what is said about them and would give up before examining them all over till he was tired out. I think a man's duty is one of two things: either to be taught or to find out where the truth is, or if he cannot, to take the best possible human doctrine and the hardest to disprove, and to ride on this like a raft on the waters of life and to take the risk; unless he could have a more seaworthy vessel to carry him more safely and with less danger, some divine doctrine to bring him through."
"Don't let us be 'misologues', hating arguments as misanthropes hate men; The worst disease one can have is to hate arguments. Misology and misanthropy come in the same way. Misanthropy is put on by believing someone completely without discrimination, and thinking the man to be speaking the truth wholly and wholesomely, and then finding out afterward that he is bad and untrustworthy and quite different."
"Many are called but few are chosen." -A twist on an old Greek saying.
"...but I am conscious that arguments proved from likelihood are humbugs."
"So I thought I must take refuge in reasoning, to examine the truth of the realities."
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
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