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Ragionamenti #1-2
Zes dagen. Gesprekken over het hoerenbestaan
In 1534 schrijft Pietro Aretino, dichter, satiricus en polemist, de seksueel zeer expliciete Ragionamenti en Dialoghi, later bekend onder de naam Sei giornate. De schrijver zal om dit boek geroemd en verguisd worden en zijn faam als 'profeet van de seksualiteit' vestigen. Zes dagen kan gelezen worden als een handleiding voor vrouwen die zich willen bekwamen in het hoerendom. Nanna, de moeder van Pippa, weet niet wat ze met haar dochter aanmoet. Moet ze haar naar het klooster sturen, een echtgenoot voor haar zoeken of haar hoer laten worden? Gezeten onder een vijgenboom in een lommerrijke tuin, laat ze in drie dagen samen met haar vriendin Antonia de drie mogelijkheden de revue passeren. Op de eerste dag wordt het kloosterleven besproken, op de tweede dag het leven van getrouwde vrouwen, en op dag drie komen de hoeren aan de beurt. Ze komen tot de conclusie dat als je toch de liefde moet bedrijven je je daar maar beter voor kunt laten betalen. Op de vierde dag vertelt Nanna aan Pippa dat ze besloten heeft haar hoer te laten worden, en leert ze haar de kneepjes van het vak. Op de vijfde dag worden de mannen en hun streken en zwakheden behandeld en op dag zes komen de koppelaarsters aan bod. Op basis van dit alom als pornografisch bestempelde werk zal Aretino's gehele literaire oeuvre binnen drie jaar na zijn dood in 1556 op de Index van verboden boeken worden geplaatst. Zes dagen behoort sinds het einde van de zestiende eeuw tot de bekendste undergroundliteratuur van Europa.
420 pages, Paperback
First published January 1, 1536
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257 people want to read
About the author
Pietro Aretino
242 books34 followersPietro Aretino was an Italian author, playwright, poet and satirist who wielded immense influence on contemporary art and politics and invented modern literate pornography.
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January 9, 2018A thoroughly excellent novel in dialog--or, rather, six dialogs--that is vulgar to an extreme, cynical, scornful, vicious, witty, and inventive. In analyzing a life of whoredom, Aretino exposes the hypocrisies, vanities, and brutish idiocy of the supposedly better parts of society, including but not limited to the clergy, nobles, merchants, royals, and poets. He scandalizes simply everyone, and along the way, while at first it appeared that he set out only to jest and jeer, Aretino seems half-persuaded through his own rhetoric to genuinely respect the "art" of the whore and her ability to give back to society some share of the hell they've given her.
Aretino's writing moves quickly, but it is packed with substance--a kind of dense, dynamic, economical form that is somehow maximalist without superfluity. (Does that make sense? Fuck if I know.) Its a style that says, Why give one example when you can give thirteen? Why give two common metaphors when you can supplement them with three more unheard-of metaphors? Why be hyperbolic when you can be super-hyperbolic? But when a story's finished, it's finished, let's move on, no time to beat around the bush, there are three-times-thirty-one more stories waiting impatiently in line and they're ready to bust down the door.
The dialogs were published in two volumes with about nine years in between--I won't look it up to confirm. I read them with a hiatus between the two volumes. I was a little worried when I returned to take up dialog four (or 2.1?), fearing that it might be good but might also just be more of the same. I needn't have feared. The first three dealt with the three professions of women: nun, wife, and whore, reaching the reasonable conclusion that whore is the most respectable, rewarding, and dignified. The fourth takes up the topic again, as Nanna is now teaching the tricks of the trade to her daughter, to prepare her for whoredom, to make her a pastmistress of the art, and to supply her with the necessary cautions to minimize the chances of her being utterly ruined. But, as I noted above, here is where I find Aretino becoming notably persuasive, i.e. facetious as ever, but also seemingly semi-sincere in elevating the status of the whore and admiring her resourcefulness, considering her no less dignified than all the other denizens of that stinking human cesspool known as Rome. Or perhaps not--perhaps he only wants to sully us all.
Dialog five gives greater justification for women to exploit, plunder, ruin--and why stop short of murder?--that frightful species known as men. For this is the chapter which treats the abuses of women and whores of all stations by all the legions of deceitful male devils. And without changing the tone or style of presentation, this dialog confronts us with some shocking abuses that we only thought the first four dialogues had made us too jaded to be moved by. Then, in the final dialog there is a shift to one more perspective, that of the bawds, which serves as an elucidation as well as a warning to both the men and whores who can be trapped and tricked by these ultra-trickster middle-women. And thus our survey is concluded.
What perspective should you take on all this? I can't tell you, but I will suggest it's likely that you will find many occasions to laugh and a few to wince in psychic agony, and it will be up to you to figure out who you are laughing with or at, and who you're feeling sorry for. In any case, it's a literary gauntlet tossed down at your feet. Don't be emasculated/efeminated by declining the challenge. Unless you have something better to do.
[Excerpts may come later, folks, but right now I'm burnt out. Cheers.]
Aretino's writing moves quickly, but it is packed with substance--a kind of dense, dynamic, economical form that is somehow maximalist without superfluity. (Does that make sense? Fuck if I know.) Its a style that says, Why give one example when you can give thirteen? Why give two common metaphors when you can supplement them with three more unheard-of metaphors? Why be hyperbolic when you can be super-hyperbolic? But when a story's finished, it's finished, let's move on, no time to beat around the bush, there are three-times-thirty-one more stories waiting impatiently in line and they're ready to bust down the door.
The dialogs were published in two volumes with about nine years in between--I won't look it up to confirm. I read them with a hiatus between the two volumes. I was a little worried when I returned to take up dialog four (or 2.1?), fearing that it might be good but might also just be more of the same. I needn't have feared. The first three dealt with the three professions of women: nun, wife, and whore, reaching the reasonable conclusion that whore is the most respectable, rewarding, and dignified. The fourth takes up the topic again, as Nanna is now teaching the tricks of the trade to her daughter, to prepare her for whoredom, to make her a pastmistress of the art, and to supply her with the necessary cautions to minimize the chances of her being utterly ruined. But, as I noted above, here is where I find Aretino becoming notably persuasive, i.e. facetious as ever, but also seemingly semi-sincere in elevating the status of the whore and admiring her resourcefulness, considering her no less dignified than all the other denizens of that stinking human cesspool known as Rome. Or perhaps not--perhaps he only wants to sully us all.
Dialog five gives greater justification for women to exploit, plunder, ruin--and why stop short of murder?--that frightful species known as men. For this is the chapter which treats the abuses of women and whores of all stations by all the legions of deceitful male devils. And without changing the tone or style of presentation, this dialog confronts us with some shocking abuses that we only thought the first four dialogues had made us too jaded to be moved by. Then, in the final dialog there is a shift to one more perspective, that of the bawds, which serves as an elucidation as well as a warning to both the men and whores who can be trapped and tricked by these ultra-trickster middle-women. And thus our survey is concluded.
What perspective should you take on all this? I can't tell you, but I will suggest it's likely that you will find many occasions to laugh and a few to wince in psychic agony, and it will be up to you to figure out who you are laughing with or at, and who you're feeling sorry for. In any case, it's a literary gauntlet tossed down at your feet. Don't be emasculated/efeminated by declining the challenge. Unless you have something better to do.
[Excerpts may come later, folks, but right now I'm burnt out. Cheers.]
June 25, 2016
Aretino was both famous and infamous for his writings which forced him to leave Rome in 1527 after he published a set of obscene sonnets to accompany some sexually explicit engravings - the whole book later known as Aretino's Postures. Rather ironically the book was placed on the Papal Index and burned publically, which only led to it being re-published in more liberal Venice and made famous throughout Europe.
The Dialogues contained here are in the same tradition: they are in two sets of three days each - the first retell the conversations between Antonia and Nanna, a pair of Italian prostitutes; and the second set the conversations between Nanna and her daughter Pippa who wants to become a prostitute.
Deliberately mocking the classical dialogue form of Plato, these are written in the venacular and in street language. Mocking, bawdy, witty and scurrilous, they rip into the institutions of the Italian establishment, particularly the church and papal court. Using the voices of women who are deliberately excluded from social power, this takes an outsider's stance and uses it to attack the attackers.
Aretino has been called the father of 'pornography' (which didn't exist, arguably, as a separate category in the C16th) but if you're just looking for that then I suspect you'll be disappointed. This does contain some great set pieces including the initial orgy in the monastery, but sexual discourse here also has a serious political function.
This seems to be the only English translation of Aretino's dialogues and really needs to be available in a cheaper edition. Day 4 is available alone as The School of Whoredom (Hesperus Classics) but it seems an odd choice to have taken that one dialogue out of context.
The Dialogues contained here are in the same tradition: they are in two sets of three days each - the first retell the conversations between Antonia and Nanna, a pair of Italian prostitutes; and the second set the conversations between Nanna and her daughter Pippa who wants to become a prostitute.
Deliberately mocking the classical dialogue form of Plato, these are written in the venacular and in street language. Mocking, bawdy, witty and scurrilous, they rip into the institutions of the Italian establishment, particularly the church and papal court. Using the voices of women who are deliberately excluded from social power, this takes an outsider's stance and uses it to attack the attackers.
Aretino has been called the father of 'pornography' (which didn't exist, arguably, as a separate category in the C16th) but if you're just looking for that then I suspect you'll be disappointed. This does contain some great set pieces including the initial orgy in the monastery, but sexual discourse here also has a serious political function.
This seems to be the only English translation of Aretino's dialogues and really needs to be available in a cheaper edition. Day 4 is available alone as The School of Whoredom (Hesperus Classics) but it seems an odd choice to have taken that one dialogue out of context.
August 9, 2008
Pornographic Renaissance satire. I can't say anything more about it, or I'll get embarrassed.
March 7, 2023
I Ragionamenti di Pietro Aretino sono divisi in due gruppi di tre giornate. Nel primo, Antonia e Nanna parlano della biografia di quest'ultima, che è stata prima monaca, poi moglie e infine prostituta; l'obiettivo è stabilire quale sia la strada migliore per Pippa, giovane figlia di Nanna.
Nella seconda triade, invece, Nanna insegna a sua figlia le arti della prostituzione (la strada scelta al termine della terza giornata).
La maggior parte dell'opera è istituita da aneddoti più o meno piccanti e più o meno divertenti. In tutti, emerge la schiettezza di Pietro Aretino, che senza timori dà la propria visione libera della sessualità adottando un punto di vista femminile smaliziato e concreto.
Sicuramente la parte migliore dell'opera è la prima giornata, dedicata alla vita monacale, di cui l'Aretino, attraverso le parole di Nanna, ci dà una visione demistificante, dalla quale emerge un monastero del vizio, in cui ogni forma di piacere sessuale è lecito (si usano persino i sex toys!). Il resto dell'opera risulta meno convincente, forse anche a causa del linguaggio di difficile decifrazione per il lettore moderno.
Divertente è anche l'ampiezza di sinonimi e di metafore utilizzate dall'autore per descrivere genitali e atti sessuali: un vero e proprio vocabolario sconcio, che non mancherò di utilizzare nelle mie conversazioni quotidiane d'ora in poi.
November 30, 2023
Un clásico de la literatura del tardío Renacimiento italiano. Aretino revela aquí toda la mundanidad de personajes abocados a la sexualidad, el pecado, las intrigas y la hipocresía. Los primeros tres diálogos (acaso los mejores del libro) revelan un antecedente del estilo que caracterizará más tarde a Sade, si bien Aretino conserva en todo un lenguaje menos directo. El mayor valor de este libro parece reposar en el extremo escepticismo que transluce frente al lenguaje: la palabra es una invención desprovista de cualquier carácter sagrado y siempre está presta a servir a líos de alcahuetas, prostitutas y delincuentes. Un libro, a mi parecer, en exceso reiterativo, pero, en todo caso, esencial para descorrer las numerosas mentiras de la Edad Media europea.
June 19, 2017
O ile rozmowy między Nanną a Antonią są śmieszne, o tyle Nanny szkolenie córki na kurtyzanę po pewnym momencie przestaje być zabawne a robi się irytujące.
January 13, 2026
review under construction
Long Brothers Fine and Rare Books in Seattle has some interesting items. But don't go there for Greek and Latin classics. That's not their thing. I picked up the 1933 edition of this volume of the Renaissance writer.
Pietro Aretino (1492-1556 CE) is an unusual character whose odious actions (blackmailing, character assassination, promiscuity) are balanced out by literary achievements and a set of social contacts in his age which make him unignorable. He arguably deserves a place on his own for his plays, poems, and dialogues, and in addition served as a kind of publicist for the great artist Titian--before there was even a word for any such thing. In addition, court functionaries and even kings and popes trembled at the threat that his pen would be put into action (meaning, in a lampooning, mocking, or sarcastic work). A review of his lifelong contacts gives a sweeping picture of the society of the Italian high Renaissance. This was a man on the move. If he was a parvenu, he was a successful one. By the time of his death at age 64, there was no one in northern Italy who didn't know his name.
When I think of a figure of the past 200 years to whom we might compare Aretino, it's hard to select a competitor. I was going to say Oscar Wilde, but Wilde would take offense at the comparison.
In a time when the dialogues and theatrical forms were being rediscovered, Aretino played a role in the rediscoveries. He deserves a place in the history of Italian literature as more than a pamphleteer. An unusual figure.
(more)
Long Brothers Fine and Rare Books in Seattle has some interesting items. But don't go there for Greek and Latin classics. That's not their thing. I picked up the 1933 edition of this volume of the Renaissance writer.
Pietro Aretino (1492-1556 CE) is an unusual character whose odious actions (blackmailing, character assassination, promiscuity) are balanced out by literary achievements and a set of social contacts in his age which make him unignorable. He arguably deserves a place on his own for his plays, poems, and dialogues, and in addition served as a kind of publicist for the great artist Titian--before there was even a word for any such thing. In addition, court functionaries and even kings and popes trembled at the threat that his pen would be put into action (meaning, in a lampooning, mocking, or sarcastic work). A review of his lifelong contacts gives a sweeping picture of the society of the Italian high Renaissance. This was a man on the move. If he was a parvenu, he was a successful one. By the time of his death at age 64, there was no one in northern Italy who didn't know his name.
When I think of a figure of the past 200 years to whom we might compare Aretino, it's hard to select a competitor. I was going to say Oscar Wilde, but Wilde would take offense at the comparison.
In a time when the dialogues and theatrical forms were being rediscovered, Aretino played a role in the rediscoveries. He deserves a place in the history of Italian literature as more than a pamphleteer. An unusual figure.
(more)
May 11, 2022
✨ Renaissance porn. ✨
Bisschen zu absurd und man kann das nur durchlesen, wenn man wirklich dauer-horny ist. Gibt keine Handlung, wird nur erzählt wie der eine seine Rübe da reinsteckt und der andere seinen Pinsel im Farbtöpfchen dort zu tunkt. Kann man gönnen, historisch sicher wertvoll, aber wenn ich den Abend genießen will, nehm ich lieber was zeitgenössisches. 🌈🌶️
Bisschen zu absurd und man kann das nur durchlesen, wenn man wirklich dauer-horny ist. Gibt keine Handlung, wird nur erzählt wie der eine seine Rübe da reinsteckt und der andere seinen Pinsel im Farbtöpfchen dort zu tunkt. Kann man gönnen, historisch sicher wertvoll, aber wenn ich den Abend genießen will, nehm ich lieber was zeitgenössisches. 🌈🌶️
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May 2, 20249
May 18, 2020
Bataille afirma que el erotismo es la afirmación de la vida hasta en la muerte. Sin duda, desde tiempos antiguos, la temática erótica aparece en la literatura, más allá de los edictos o normas morales que predominen o intenten dominar. El erotismo es un impulso de vida que el arte ha recreado con ingenio desde tiempos pretéritos. La sonrisa vertical es una de las colecciones de literatura erótica más afamadas en el mundo hispanohablante contemporáneo. Siguiendo esa huella, Emecé Editores de Argentina se animó el año 2001 a inaugurar una colección llamada "La noche mildós". Su primera publicación fue "Diálogo de Cortesanas". Esta obra fue publicada originalmente en dos partes, los años 1534 y 1536. Sin ninguna duda, su autor, Pietro Aretino, era conocedor del gran referente de este tipo de narraciones en esa época: El Decamerón, texto al que aluden las protagonistas de esta historia, para darle realce a sus historias. El Diálógo de Cortesanas se estructura en dos partes. Cada parte, a su vez, tiene tres jornadas. En la primera parte, el diálogo es entre dos prostitutas. Enana quiere contarle a Antonia sus experiencias vitales como monja, esposa y cortesana, con el fin de que Antonia le ayude a decidir el futuro de su hija. En la segunda parte, Enana aconseja a su hija para ejercer con provecho el oficio de cortesana, valiéndose del ingenio y del engaño. Además, le advierte de las vilezas de los hombres y de los malos tratos que le otorgan a quiénes ejercen el oficio más viejo del mundo. Por último, ambas mujeres escucharán el diálogo entre la Comadre y la Nodriza, donde se trata el tema de la rufianería o el oficio de las alcahuetas. Es un libro interesantísimo, con pasajes llenos de picardía, ingenio, desparpajo, realismo y humor, aunque en ciertos pasajes se torna un poco tedioso y repetitivo. La naturaleza humana es débil. Las mujeres deben usar de su astucia para sobrevivir en un mundo dominado por hombres, cuyo punto débil es el deseo sexual y la obsesión amorosa que deviene en lujuria o violencia. En parte misógino, en parte misántropo; en parte licencioso, en parte moralista; pero siempre crítico. Una cita que nos dice mucho de la humanidad de todos los tiempos: "ten por seguro que si se hiciera la cuenta de pillos y de imbéciles, no se hallarían menos de éstos que de aquéllos". La Comadre dixit.
October 16, 2021
Volume One of the edition edited by Samuel Putnam includes the Dialogues or Raggiomenti, and the text of the play The Courtesan.
The Dialogues are framed like Boccaccio’s Decameron or Chaucer’s The Canterbury Tales, and have an earthy, profane flavour.
The Courtesan is a play in Aretino’s bawdy style, about a pair of nobles, one, Messer Maco, who seeks to become a Courtesan and is instructed in this by Maestro Andrea, and one Signor Parabolano, who is in love. Rosso, a groom of Parabolano causes much grief and sows much confusion. Has a Jewish merchant, Romanello, who is cheated by Rosso and treated very poorly. A lesser play of the age, but notable for its setting, utilization of cross-dressing and other items of bawdy in the plot, and the strength of some of the characterization.
The Dialogues are framed like Boccaccio’s Decameron or Chaucer’s The Canterbury Tales, and have an earthy, profane flavour.
The Courtesan is a play in Aretino’s bawdy style, about a pair of nobles, one, Messer Maco, who seeks to become a Courtesan and is instructed in this by Maestro Andrea, and one Signor Parabolano, who is in love. Rosso, a groom of Parabolano causes much grief and sows much confusion. Has a Jewish merchant, Romanello, who is cheated by Rosso and treated very poorly. A lesser play of the age, but notable for its setting, utilization of cross-dressing and other items of bawdy in the plot, and the strength of some of the characterization.
October 13, 2018
Aretino's Dialogues aka The Ragionamenti. From The Works of Aretino, Translated into English from the original Italian, with a Critical and Biographical Essay by Samuel Putnam, Illustrations by The Marquis de Bayros in Two Volumes, Volume I., Chicago: Pascal Covici, 1926. Available online. I suspect this translation doesn't quite do it justice. But still, funny in parts.
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