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Αθηναίων πολιτεία
Η ιστορία και η περιγραφή του αθηναϊκού πολιτεύματος, από το αρχαίο ελληνικό κείμενο με τις περισσότερες εκδόσεις. Η Αθηναίων πολιτεία -έργο βασικό για τη σπουδή του δημοκρατικού πολιτεύματος, καθώς μεταξύ των άλλων δείχνει την αφετηρία και την εξέλιξη της δημοκρατίας στον αρχαίο ελληνικό κόσμο- έχει παγκόσμια απήχηση. Η έκδοση αυτή περιλαμβάνει το πρωτότυπο αρχαίο κείμενο και τη μετάφρασή του στα νέα ελληνικά, ενώ χάρη στην εκτεταμένη εισαγωγή του Δημήτρη Ι. Παπαδή ο αναγνώστης πληροφορείται τους κύριους σταθμούς ανάπτυξης της αθηναϊκής πολιτείας, με ιδιαίτερη έμφαση στις κρίσιμες καμπές της ιστορίας της: στον Σόλωνα, τον Πεισίστρατο, τον Κλεισθένη, τον Εφιάλτη και τον Περικλή. Επίσης, εξετάζονται οι ομοιότητες και οι διαφορές της αθηναϊκής δημοκρατίας με τη νεότερη. Τέλος, τα διαφωτιστικά σχόλια του μεταφραστή του κειμένου, το ερμηνευτικό υπόμνημα, καθιστούν την έκδοση επωφελή όχι μόνο για τον ειδικό μελετητή αλλά και για όλους τους αναγνώστες.
398 pages, Hardcover
First published January 1, 329
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About the author
Aristotle
4,344 books5,566 followersAristotle (Greek: Αριστοτέλης; 384–322 BC) was an Ancient Greek philosopher and polymath. His writings cover a broad range of subjects spanning the natural sciences, philosophy, linguistics, economics, politics, psychology, and the arts. As the founder of the Peripatetic school of philosophy in the Lyceum in Athens, he began the wider Aristotelian tradition that followed, which set the groundwork for the development of modern science.
Little is known about Aristotle's life. He was born in the city of Stagira in northern Greece during the Classical period. His father, Nicomachus, died when Aristotle was a child, and he was brought up by a guardian. At 17 or 18, he joined Plato's Academy in Athens and remained there until the age of 37 (c. 347 BC). Shortly after Plato died, Aristotle left Athens and, at the request of Philip II of Macedon, tutored his son Alexander the Great beginning in 343 BC. He established a library in the Lyceum, which helped him to produce many of his hundreds of books on papyrus scrolls.
Though Aristotle wrote many treatises and dialogues for publication, only around a third of his original output has survived, none of it intended for publication. Aristotle provided a complex synthesis of the various philosophies existing prior to him. His teachings and methods of inquiry have had a significant impact across the world, and remain a subject of contemporary philosophical discussion.
Aristotle's views profoundly shaped medieval scholarship. The influence of his physical science extended from late antiquity and the Early Middle Ages into the Renaissance, and was not replaced systematically until the Enlightenment and theories such as classical mechanics were developed. He influenced Judeo-Islamic philosophies during the Middle Ages, as well as Christian theology, especially the Neoplatonism of the Early Church and the scholastic tradition of the Catholic Church.
Aristotle was revered among medieval Muslim scholars as "The First Teacher", and among medieval Christians like Thomas Aquinas as simply "The Philosopher", while the poet Dante Alighieri called him "the master of those who know". His works contain the earliest known formal study of logic, and were studied by medieval scholars such as Pierre Abélard and Jean Buridan. Aristotle's influence on logic continued well into the 19th century. In addition, his ethics, although always influential, gained renewed interest with the modern advent of virtue ethics.
Little is known about Aristotle's life. He was born in the city of Stagira in northern Greece during the Classical period. His father, Nicomachus, died when Aristotle was a child, and he was brought up by a guardian. At 17 or 18, he joined Plato's Academy in Athens and remained there until the age of 37 (c. 347 BC). Shortly after Plato died, Aristotle left Athens and, at the request of Philip II of Macedon, tutored his son Alexander the Great beginning in 343 BC. He established a library in the Lyceum, which helped him to produce many of his hundreds of books on papyrus scrolls.
Though Aristotle wrote many treatises and dialogues for publication, only around a third of his original output has survived, none of it intended for publication. Aristotle provided a complex synthesis of the various philosophies existing prior to him. His teachings and methods of inquiry have had a significant impact across the world, and remain a subject of contemporary philosophical discussion.
Aristotle's views profoundly shaped medieval scholarship. The influence of his physical science extended from late antiquity and the Early Middle Ages into the Renaissance, and was not replaced systematically until the Enlightenment and theories such as classical mechanics were developed. He influenced Judeo-Islamic philosophies during the Middle Ages, as well as Christian theology, especially the Neoplatonism of the Early Church and the scholastic tradition of the Catholic Church.
Aristotle was revered among medieval Muslim scholars as "The First Teacher", and among medieval Christians like Thomas Aquinas as simply "The Philosopher", while the poet Dante Alighieri called him "the master of those who know". His works contain the earliest known formal study of logic, and were studied by medieval scholars such as Pierre Abélard and Jean Buridan. Aristotle's influence on logic continued well into the 19th century. In addition, his ethics, although always influential, gained renewed interest with the modern advent of virtue ethics.
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 101 reviews
April 14, 2017
είναι απίστευτο πως πράγματα που είναι δεδομένα σήμερα, τότε θεωρούνταν καινοτομίες.
Η εισαγωγή κυρίως εγκωμιάζει το πολίτευμα και κάνει μια σύγκριση με το σημερινό.
περίμενα περισσότερη κριτικη και για τα δυο.
Η εισαγωγή κυρίως εγκωμιάζει το πολίτευμα και κάνει μια σύγκριση με το σημερινό.
περίμενα περισσότερη κριτικη και για τα δυο.
Read
March 19, 2021
"agoranomos [pazar denetleyicisi] kurayla seçilir. Yasa gereği, görevleri pazarda satılan bütün gıdaların sağlıklı ve katkısız olmasını denetlemektir."
(s.57)
Bu eserin M.Ö. 300'lü yıllarda yazıldığını göz önüne aldığımızda, bugün bile uygulanmayan bir denetimi; pazardaki yiyeceklerin katkısız olmalarını denetleyen bir memur görevlendirildiğini düşünün.
İşte bundan 2.300 yıl önce Atina böyle yönetiliyormuş. Bu ve bunun gibi bugünün kavramlarında ve konseptlerinde pek çok uygulama var. Üstelik "halkın egemenliği" geçiyor kitapta. Bu aşamada iddia ediyorum ki; bu kitapta anlatılan Atina'dan daha az demokratik pek çok çağımız ülkesi mevcut.
Siyaset bilimi öğrencileri başta olmak üzere, kamu yönetimi, iktisat, uluslararası ilişkiler, sosyoloji gibi pek çok beşeri bilim öğrencisinin okuması şart olan klasiklerden birisi.
M.B.
Sözkonusu bölüm öğrencilerinin okuması şart olan diğer klasiklerden örnekler:
Devlet
Hükümdar
Yasalar Üzerine
Siyasetname
Toplum Sözleşmesi
Utopia
Güneş Ülkesi
Politika
Yasalar
Bu eserin M.Ö. 300'lü yıllarda yazıldığını göz önüne aldığımızda, bugün bile uygulanmayan bir denetimi; pazardaki yiyeceklerin katkısız olmalarını denetleyen bir memur görevlendirildiğini düşünün.
İşte bundan 2.300 yıl önce Atina böyle yönetiliyormuş. Bu ve bunun gibi bugünün kavramlarında ve konseptlerinde pek çok uygulama var. Üstelik "halkın egemenliği" geçiyor kitapta. Bu aşamada iddia ediyorum ki; bu kitapta anlatılan Atina'dan daha az demokratik pek çok çağımız ülkesi mevcut.
Siyaset bilimi öğrencileri başta olmak üzere, kamu yönetimi, iktisat, uluslararası ilişkiler, sosyoloji gibi pek çok beşeri bilim öğrencisinin okuması şart olan klasiklerden birisi.
M.B.
Sözkonusu bölüm öğrencilerinin okuması şart olan diğer klasiklerden örnekler:
Devlet
Hükümdar
Yasalar Üzerine
Siyasetname
Toplum Sözleşmesi
Utopia
Güneş Ülkesi
Politika
Yasalar
February 19, 2017
Üzerinden yüzlerce hatta binlerce yıl geçse de insan aynı, yonetimler aynı. Sadece cakası değişiyor.
November 21, 2024
В Атинската полития, Аристотел описва политическата система на древна Атина. Атинската полития се състои от две части. Първата част е изключително интересна, тъй като проследява промените в Атинското държавно устройство от създаването на първите писани закони от Дракон, зараждането на демокрацията по времето на Солон, тиранията по времето на Темистокъл и последвалото възстановяване на демокрацията. Втората част описва институциите на града, включващи периоди на достъп до гражданството, магистратите и съдилищата.
December 26, 2024
"A constitution may be either good or bad, depending on whether it leads to the common good or not."
"The power of the people depends upon the constitution."
While it offers valuable historical insight into the workings of ancient Athens, I found the reading experience to be less engaging than I had hoped. The text is actually believed to be a compilation of Aristotle’s notes—or perhaps the notes of one of his students—rather than a fully cohesive work written by Aristotle himself. And I can definitely tell! The style is a bit disjointed and, at times, feels more like a lecture outline than a polished philosophical treatise.
Aristotle’s analysis of different forms of government and his exploration of Athenian democracy is undoubtedly significant, but the text often felt dry and repetitive. His abstract philosophical musings, while intellectually stimulating at times, didn't always provide the depth I was hoping for in terms of practical application or clarity.
One of the challenges I faced while reading this work was the dense, sometimes technical language that left me struggling to connect with the content. While I appreciate Aristotle's attempt to systematically categorize the political structures and dynamics of Athens, it felt like the book could have benefitted from more detailed examples and a more accessible writing style.
That being said, I do agree with Aristotle’s point that the constitution is a tool for the people to exert power. A constitution should be amended and changed whenever it no longer serves the people—not the other way around, especially when it comes to the common people, the working class, and not the 1%. This was actually something I had to put into practice recently when I helped write a club constitution at university. We were trying to restrict the power of one individual who was abusing his junior executives—essentially making them do all his work for him while he took credit for all the club’s events. It felt like we were putting in safeguards to ensure the constitution served the people (in this case, the junior execs) and not just one person trying to control everything.
For those with a deep interest in political theory or ancient Greek philosophy, The Athenian Constitution might still hold value, but for a more casual reader or someone seeking a more compelling and readable exploration of Athenian politics, this text may feel more like a historical document than an engaging philosophical treatise. Unfortunately, this one didn't resonate with me as much as I hoped.
"The power of the people depends upon the constitution."
While it offers valuable historical insight into the workings of ancient Athens, I found the reading experience to be less engaging than I had hoped. The text is actually believed to be a compilation of Aristotle’s notes—or perhaps the notes of one of his students—rather than a fully cohesive work written by Aristotle himself. And I can definitely tell! The style is a bit disjointed and, at times, feels more like a lecture outline than a polished philosophical treatise.
Aristotle’s analysis of different forms of government and his exploration of Athenian democracy is undoubtedly significant, but the text often felt dry and repetitive. His abstract philosophical musings, while intellectually stimulating at times, didn't always provide the depth I was hoping for in terms of practical application or clarity.
One of the challenges I faced while reading this work was the dense, sometimes technical language that left me struggling to connect with the content. While I appreciate Aristotle's attempt to systematically categorize the political structures and dynamics of Athens, it felt like the book could have benefitted from more detailed examples and a more accessible writing style.
That being said, I do agree with Aristotle’s point that the constitution is a tool for the people to exert power. A constitution should be amended and changed whenever it no longer serves the people—not the other way around, especially when it comes to the common people, the working class, and not the 1%. This was actually something I had to put into practice recently when I helped write a club constitution at university. We were trying to restrict the power of one individual who was abusing his junior executives—essentially making them do all his work for him while he took credit for all the club’s events. It felt like we were putting in safeguards to ensure the constitution served the people (in this case, the junior execs) and not just one person trying to control everything.
For those with a deep interest in political theory or ancient Greek philosophy, The Athenian Constitution might still hold value, but for a more casual reader or someone seeking a more compelling and readable exploration of Athenian politics, this text may feel more like a historical document than an engaging philosophical treatise. Unfortunately, this one didn't resonate with me as much as I hoped.
July 22, 2022
این کتاب رو چون به تاریخ تمدن علاقه دارم از دوستی امانت گرفتم و نمیدونم الان پیدا بشه یا نه، این که من خوندم چاپ دوم و برای سال ۱۳۵۸ هست.
در قسمت یادداشت مترجم نوشته شده که اثر تاریخی ارسطو کتابی بوده که در آن از نحوه حکومت و تاریخ سیاسی بیش از ۱۵۰ شهر و کشور گفتگو کرده است اما از میان رفته تا اینکه در سال ۱۸۱۹ میلادی، فقط قسمتی از اون که مربوط به حکومت آتن هست پیدا شده، که همین کتاب هست.
جزئیات حکومت و تمدن آتن برای من شگفت آور بود.
البته که اگر حاشیه ها نبودند فهم کتاب بسیار سخت می بود.
حاشیه ها به دلیل روایت داستان های اساطیری و تاریخی بسیار شیرین تر از خود کتاب بودند.
ترجمه و تحشیه کتاب ، هنر جناب باستانی پاریزی بود.
در قسمت یادداشت مترجم نوشته شده که اثر تاریخی ارسطو کتابی بوده که در آن از نحوه حکومت و تاریخ سیاسی بیش از ۱۵۰ شهر و کشور گفتگو کرده است اما از میان رفته تا اینکه در سال ۱۸۱۹ میلادی، فقط قسمتی از اون که مربوط به حکومت آتن هست پیدا شده، که همین کتاب هست.
جزئیات حکومت و تمدن آتن برای من شگفت آور بود.
البته که اگر حاشیه ها نبودند فهم کتاب بسیار سخت می بود.
حاشیه ها به دلیل روایت داستان های اساطیری و تاریخی بسیار شیرین تر از خود کتاب بودند.
ترجمه و تحشیه کتاب ، هنر جناب باستانی پاریزی بود.
February 12, 2024
Aristotle's students wrote 158 constitutions in Ancient Greece. The Athenian Constitution is the sole surviving document. It is dissimilar in composition to contemporary constitutions like America or Australia. Rather, it provides a concise political history of Athens' democratic development from the 7th to the 5th century BC. It details Solon's overthrow of Draco's laws, the return of tyranny under Pisistratus and his sons, and the establishment of democracy by Cleisthenes and his successors. The final third explains the functioning of Athens' political institutions. Overall, it is a brief and insightful read.
August 1, 2014
Fantastic story. Who knew this was going to be a gripping history?
Engrossing insight into political archetypes: Cleisthenes is the archetypal reformer, and Pisistratus the archetypal tyrant. To watch the two great men swivel and twist and maneuver is gripping, exciting, and visionary - it casts forward to Tacitus, Machiavelli, and to present day Prussian, Nazi and American politics. Riveting stuff!
Cleisthenes is my hero. Anyone, anywhere, anytime who wants to improve the world can benefit from imitating what he did to Athens. He (NOT Solon) is the original liberal democrat of history.
READING TIPS:
1. Finally, start the book with Chapter 41 paragraphs 2 and 3 - this is the summary and is vital to grasping the action.
2. Skip the introduction. It's shit. It spoils the whole book.
3. Skip the italicized editorial interruptions to the text. They suck.
4. Instead, consider reading Plutarch's lives alongside this book. They made a fascinating conversation, Plutarch and Aristotle.
I cannot say it strongly enough: Ignore the patronizing Penguin helps and read it as an adventure story and you'll love it. You can sit down and read the whole story in a few hours or less.
Engrossing insight into political archetypes: Cleisthenes is the archetypal reformer, and Pisistratus the archetypal tyrant. To watch the two great men swivel and twist and maneuver is gripping, exciting, and visionary - it casts forward to Tacitus, Machiavelli, and to present day Prussian, Nazi and American politics. Riveting stuff!
Cleisthenes is my hero. Anyone, anywhere, anytime who wants to improve the world can benefit from imitating what he did to Athens. He (NOT Solon) is the original liberal democrat of history.
READING TIPS:
1. Finally, start the book with Chapter 41 paragraphs 2 and 3 - this is the summary and is vital to grasping the action.
2. Skip the introduction. It's shit. It spoils the whole book.
3. Skip the italicized editorial interruptions to the text. They suck.
4. Instead, consider reading Plutarch's lives alongside this book. They made a fascinating conversation, Plutarch and Aristotle.
I cannot say it strongly enough: Ignore the patronizing Penguin helps and read it as an adventure story and you'll love it. You can sit down and read the whole story in a few hours or less.
October 20, 2015
Kill Me this was not fun at all
May 12, 2020
Read for class. I understand that Ancient Greece's early history is incomplete, but I still wasn't a fan of how this was organized. Not gonna lie, I think Aristotle could've done a better job.
September 26, 2022
More like the Athenian Constipation looooool
December 29, 2020
It's extremely interesting that almost 2500 years ago ancient Greece has a strong check and balance system. One of the most impressive points of this book was definitely the passion for democracy of a community. On the other hand, over this book we witness how Solon rules changed the destiny of a geography. We clearly see that ancient Greece had suffered to much from the tyranny. Therefore rule makers had worked hard to avoid a totalitarian state.
Must read!
Must read!
August 6, 2020
Πολύ σημαντικό έργο στο οποίο διασώζεται η δόμηση της πρώτης δημοκρατικής πολιτείας αυτής της Γης, ήτοι αυτής των Αθηναίων.
Η καταγραφή των εκάστοστε πολιτευμάτων της αρχαίας Αθήνας από τον Αριστοτέλη αποτελεί έναν πολιτισμικό αλλά και πολιτικό-ιστορικό θησαυρό, τον οποίο συμβουλεύτηκαν επιφανείς πολιτικοί ηγέτες της Δύσης για την δημιουργία και θέσπιση της δημοκρατικής ιδέας όπως την γνωρίζουμε σήμερα.
Επιπλέον, πολύ ενδιαφέρουσα και ουσιαστική η εισαγωγή της παρούσας έκδοσης, με την περιγραφή αφενός της πολιτικής πέντε αξιοσημείωτων πολιτικών ηγετών (Σόλωνας, Πεισίστρατος, Κλεισθένης, Εφιάλτης, Περικλής) και αφετέρου των πολιτικών-εξουσιαστικών σωμάτων (Άρειος Πάγος, Ηλιαία Δικαστήρια, Βουλή, Εκκλησία του Δήμου).
Από την εισαγωγή:
Συνήθως υποστηρίζεται ότι η διάκριση των εξουσιών διατυπώθηκε ως αρχή από τον Locke και υποστηρίχθηκε με λογικά επιχειρήματα από τον Montesquieu και από μεταγενέστερους διανοητές. Είναι όμως γεγονός ότι η διάκριση των εξουσιών είναι ήδη μία πραγματικότητα της Αθηναϊκής δημοκρατίας, όπου την νομοθετική εξουσία την ασκεί η Εκκλησία του δήμου, την εκτελεστική εξουσία την ασκεί η πρυτανεία της Βουλής και όλοι οι άρχοντες ως εντολοδόχοι της Εκκλησίας του δήμου, και την δικαστική εξουσία την ασκούν βασικά ο Άρειος Πάγος, το λαϊκό δικαστήριο της Ηλιαίας και τα άλλα μικρότερα δικαστήρια.
Η καταγραφή των εκάστοστε πολιτευμάτων της αρχαίας Αθήνας από τον Αριστοτέλη αποτελεί έναν πολιτισμικό αλλά και πολιτικό-ιστορικό θησαυρό, τον οποίο συμβουλεύτηκαν επιφανείς πολιτικοί ηγέτες της Δύσης για την δημιουργία και θέσπιση της δημοκρατικής ιδέας όπως την γνωρίζουμε σήμερα.
Επιπλέον, πολύ ενδιαφέρουσα και ουσιαστική η εισαγωγή της παρούσας έκδοσης, με την περιγραφή αφενός της πολιτικής πέντε αξιοσημείωτων πολιτικών ηγετών (Σόλωνας, Πεισίστρατος, Κλεισθένης, Εφιάλτης, Περικλής) και αφετέρου των πολιτικών-εξουσιαστικών σωμάτων (Άρειος Πάγος, Ηλιαία Δικαστήρια, Βουλή, Εκκλησία του Δήμου).
Από την εισαγωγή:
Συνήθως υποστηρίζεται ότι η διάκριση των εξουσιών διατυπώθηκε ως αρχή από τον Locke και υποστηρίχθηκε με λογικά επιχειρήματα από τον Montesquieu και από μεταγενέστερους διανοητές. Είναι όμως γεγονός ότι η διάκριση των εξουσιών είναι ήδη μία πραγματικότητα της Αθηναϊκής δημοκρατίας, όπου την νομοθετική εξουσία την ασκεί η Εκκλησία του δήμου, την εκτελεστική εξουσία την ασκεί η πρυτανεία της Βουλής και όλοι οι άρχοντες ως εντολοδόχοι της Εκκλησίας του δήμου, και την δικαστική εξουσία την ασκούν βασικά ο Άρειος Πάγος, το λαϊκό δικαστήριο της Ηλιαίας και τα άλλα μικρότερα δικαστήρια.
August 11, 2021
Det är en rättshistorisk genomgång. Fokus är politikens konflikters påverkan.
June 28, 2016
I have found it interesting to be reading this in a time of such political turmoil (though not exactly a relief from all the stress). There were particular moments that resonated due to this (Solon trying and failing to please the poor by helping them without major social upheaval; refusing tyranny, yet later being ignored when he warns that Pisistratus wants to be a tyrant), but it also functions as a generally useful account of early political developments. Some parts were more of a surprise as well (Pisistratus’ purported public policy and generosity during his reign).
I would say (for public information!) that labelling this as ‘by Aristotle’ is a marketing ploy – luckily I already knew this and so was not disappointed, but the text is ‘attributed to Aristotle’ (and generally Aristotelian in style) but differs from the Politics quite a bit and was probably written by one of A’s students.
Solon is the most intriguing figure to me (though this was also the part I had read and studied before), along with Cleisthenes; it was also enlightening to see how the whole timeline looked leading down to the 5th century-style democracy we associate most closely with Athens, even where some of the details are questionable (for which, thankfully, the Penguin notes provide plenty of help).
The text is dry and slow at times (this is to be expected, especially in the descriptions of government organisations towards the end!) but it’s certainly educationally valuable, which I think is what I needed right now (and probably one that a lot of politicians should be reading up on in these present circumstances).
I would say (for public information!) that labelling this as ‘by Aristotle’ is a marketing ploy – luckily I already knew this and so was not disappointed, but the text is ‘attributed to Aristotle’ (and generally Aristotelian in style) but differs from the Politics quite a bit and was probably written by one of A’s students.
Solon is the most intriguing figure to me (though this was also the part I had read and studied before), along with Cleisthenes; it was also enlightening to see how the whole timeline looked leading down to the 5th century-style democracy we associate most closely with Athens, even where some of the details are questionable (for which, thankfully, the Penguin notes provide plenty of help).
The text is dry and slow at times (this is to be expected, especially in the descriptions of government organisations towards the end!) but it’s certainly educationally valuable, which I think is what I needed right now (and probably one that a lot of politicians should be reading up on in these present circumstances).
August 24, 2018
Aristoteles'in Atina tarihi açısından değerli eseri "The Athenian Constitution / Atinalıların Devleti", Herodotus'un "Tarih"inden kurtuldum diye sevinirken içeriğiyle devamına yakalandığım bir kitap oldu benim için ki bu yüzden bende büyük bir hayal kırıklığı yaşattı ne yazık ki. Zamanın Atina yasaları ve devlet düzeni hakkında tarihi bilgiler almak için ideal bir eser olduğunu düşündüğüm kitabın açıkçası felsefe adına okunması gereken kitaplardan biri olduğunu düşünmüyorum. Kesinlikle "Tarih"ten sonra okunması lazım çünkü Herodotus'un kaldığı yerden hem de aynı yazı diliyle Yunan tarihine devam etmiş Aristoteles. Buna rağmen Yunan tarihindeki yönetim şeklinin zamanla nasıl geliştiğini okuma şansı bulduğum notlarda bir devletin kendini bulma aşamasına tanıklık ediyoruz. Felsefeden çok gözlem ve araştırmayla hazırlanan tarih notlarını merak edenlerin ilgisini çekecektir.
19.04.2015
İstanbul, Türkiye
Alp Turgut
http://www.filmdoktoru.com/kitap-labo...
19.04.2015
İstanbul, Türkiye
Alp Turgut
http://www.filmdoktoru.com/kitap-labo...
July 22, 2011
Particulièrement intéressant. C'est bien si on a lu "La guerre du Péloponnèse" de Thucydide avant.
October 25, 2023
"Evet! Bütün kötülüğü biliyorum: En eski Yunan ilinin çökmekte olduğunu
görüyorum, yüreğim derinden derine sızlıyor."
görüyorum, yüreğim derinden derine sızlıyor."
September 18, 2020
قرأت النسختين مع بعض :)
الإنجليزية تشمل النصوص الأخيرة غير الموجودة بالعربية. أفضّل الإنجليزية، أشوفها أوضح، الجمل بالعربية أحيانا تشكل علي، لكن فيها هوامش مفيدة.
الإنجليزية تشمل النصوص الأخيرة غير الموجودة بالعربية. أفضّل الإنجليزية، أشوفها أوضح، الجمل بالعربية أحيانا تشكل علي، لكن فيها هوامش مفيدة.
December 11, 2022
dnf boring af
December 29, 2020
Um livro sem graça, picotado (devido a ter sido descoberto no século XIX) e que embora tenha um estilo Aristotélico, não é garantia de ter sido escrito por Aristóteles.
É um relato da constituição de Atenas, com utilidade histórica e curiosidade, mas sem uma análise mais aprofundada, como no livro da Política.
Relata os trabalhos de Solon (que implementou algumas medidas estranhas como perdoar dívidas) e de Pisístrato, mais moderado, que foi sucedido pelo seu filho Hípias, que assassinou seu irmão e estabeleceu uma tirania mais cruel. Após um tempo veio Clístenes, que ganhou a confiança do povo e foi mais democrático, instituindo coisas como a lei de ostracismo, por interesses pessoais.
Narra mais idas e vindas históricas do governo ateniense para entrar na constituição de Atenas propriamente dita, quando Pitodoro era arconte, de acordo com Aristóteles.
Mostra algumas questões específicas de legislação, que não desperta muito interesse, como quais são as atribuições do Conselho dos 500, quem tem direitos de ser cidadãos, quem vai fazer o policiamento da Ágora, mostra algumas medidas de intervencionismo econômico e tentativa de tabelamento de preços.
Não recomendo a leitura desse livro, a não ser para completar a leitura do Corpus Aristotelicum.
É um relato da constituição de Atenas, com utilidade histórica e curiosidade, mas sem uma análise mais aprofundada, como no livro da Política.
Relata os trabalhos de Solon (que implementou algumas medidas estranhas como perdoar dívidas) e de Pisístrato, mais moderado, que foi sucedido pelo seu filho Hípias, que assassinou seu irmão e estabeleceu uma tirania mais cruel. Após um tempo veio Clístenes, que ganhou a confiança do povo e foi mais democrático, instituindo coisas como a lei de ostracismo, por interesses pessoais.
Narra mais idas e vindas históricas do governo ateniense para entrar na constituição de Atenas propriamente dita, quando Pitodoro era arconte, de acordo com Aristóteles.
Mostra algumas questões específicas de legislação, que não desperta muito interesse, como quais são as atribuições do Conselho dos 500, quem tem direitos de ser cidadãos, quem vai fazer o policiamento da Ágora, mostra algumas medidas de intervencionismo econômico e tentativa de tabelamento de preços.
Não recomendo a leitura desse livro, a não ser para completar a leitura do Corpus Aristotelicum.
November 9, 2023
First half is mostly a political history of Athens. The second half gets into the constitution as it was at the time of writing.
May 2, 2020
Öncelikle Aristo ile ilk tanışmamdı. Sistematik birisiymiş, daha çok eserinin günümüze kadar ulaşmış olmasını isterdim.
Kitap MÖ 300lere kadar Atina’da oluşturulan yönetim sistemini olabilecek en sade şekilde anlatıyor. Halkın seçimden çok kurayla göreve geldiği bir sistem olması benim açımdan öğrendiğim en ilginç kısımdı.
Tarihsel olarak demokrasiye giden değişimi ve gelişimi bu kitapla öğrenebilirsiniz.
Not: Demokrasiye inanmayan birisi olduğumu da belirtmek isterim. Ama kurayla göreve gelme fikri nüfusun az olduğu yerler için uygulansa nasıl olurdu diye düşünmeden edemiyor insan.
Kitap MÖ 300lere kadar Atina’da oluşturulan yönetim sistemini olabilecek en sade şekilde anlatıyor. Halkın seçimden çok kurayla göreve geldiği bir sistem olması benim açımdan öğrendiğim en ilginç kısımdı.
Tarihsel olarak demokrasiye giden değişimi ve gelişimi bu kitapla öğrenebilirsiniz.
Not: Demokrasiye inanmayan birisi olduğumu da belirtmek isterim. Ama kurayla göreve gelme fikri nüfusun az olduğu yerler için uygulansa nasıl olurdu diye düşünmeden edemiyor insan.
Read
November 4, 2022400,500,30,400,10,30,10, 1, x, 30, 400, 500
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?
December 11, 2021
Before I started, I thought this book would just be the text of the Athenian constitution. It’s not. It really has two parts. Chapters 1-41 describe the history of the changes to the form of government over the years. Aristotle himself in Chapter 41 says there were eleven changes which took place in the constitution. Chapters 42-69 describe the current state of the constitution. But it’s a description, not the text of anything. I’m a little disappointed that he only very rarely provides the rationale behind anything they decided to do. I would like to have known much more about the *why*.
There are a number of government functions that I didn’t realize could trace their history back this far. Chapter 48 talks about auditors. Chapter 49 discusses affidavits. Chapter 52 mentions that the interest rate for loans was 12%. Chapter 55 notes that certain offices were not allowed to receive presents for the performance of their duties (presumably to avoid favoritism). Chapter 56 mentions mortgages.
Some things that struck my fancy (chapter numbers in parens):
* (9) Some persons in fact believe that Solon deliberately made the laws indefinite, in order that the final decision might be in the hands of the people. This, however, is not probably, and the reason no doubt was that it is impossible to attain ideal perfection when framing a law in general terms.
* (42 - talks about the fact that all citizens have to serve 2 years in the army. I think this implication here is that only men can be citizens.)
* (50 - a very odd statement) They also provide that no collector of sewage shall shoot any of his sewage within ten Strada of the walls. (The City Commissioners also were responsible to ensure that nobody had doors which open outwards. What?!?)
* (51 - discusses the Commissioners of Weights and Measures)
* (52) Thieves, kidnappers, and pickpockets are brought to them, and if they plead guilty they are executed. (Why would anyone plead guilty then?)
* (53 discusses the sequence over a legal agreement. If the two parties cannot come to agreement, they first go to an Arbitrator - this is not binding, though; if the Arbitrator can come up with an agreement that they both accept, then you’re done. But if not, then the case goes to court - either a jury of 201 or 401 depending on the amount of money involved. They cast lots to determine which Arbitrator gets which case.)
* (67) Water-clocks are provided, having small supply-tubes, into which the water is poured by which the length of the pleadings is regulated. Ten gallons are allowed for a case in which an amount of more than five thousands drachmas is involved.
* (68) Most of the courts consist of 500 members; and when it is necessary to bring public cases before a jury of 1,000 members, two courts combine for the purpose.
There are a number of government functions that I didn’t realize could trace their history back this far. Chapter 48 talks about auditors. Chapter 49 discusses affidavits. Chapter 52 mentions that the interest rate for loans was 12%. Chapter 55 notes that certain offices were not allowed to receive presents for the performance of their duties (presumably to avoid favoritism). Chapter 56 mentions mortgages.
Some things that struck my fancy (chapter numbers in parens):
* (9) Some persons in fact believe that Solon deliberately made the laws indefinite, in order that the final decision might be in the hands of the people. This, however, is not probably, and the reason no doubt was that it is impossible to attain ideal perfection when framing a law in general terms.
* (42 - talks about the fact that all citizens have to serve 2 years in the army. I think this implication here is that only men can be citizens.)
* (50 - a very odd statement) They also provide that no collector of sewage shall shoot any of his sewage within ten Strada of the walls. (The City Commissioners also were responsible to ensure that nobody had doors which open outwards. What?!?)
* (51 - discusses the Commissioners of Weights and Measures)
* (52) Thieves, kidnappers, and pickpockets are brought to them, and if they plead guilty they are executed. (Why would anyone plead guilty then?)
* (53 discusses the sequence over a legal agreement. If the two parties cannot come to agreement, they first go to an Arbitrator - this is not binding, though; if the Arbitrator can come up with an agreement that they both accept, then you’re done. But if not, then the case goes to court - either a jury of 201 or 401 depending on the amount of money involved. They cast lots to determine which Arbitrator gets which case.)
* (67) Water-clocks are provided, having small supply-tubes, into which the water is poured by which the length of the pleadings is regulated. Ten gallons are allowed for a case in which an amount of more than five thousands drachmas is involved.
* (68) Most of the courts consist of 500 members; and when it is necessary to bring public cases before a jury of 1,000 members, two courts combine for the purpose.
January 4, 2014
ثلثا الكتاب عن تاريخ أثينا الملكي ونظام حكمها منذ ما قبل ظهور صولن وحتى ما بعد عهد بركليس بقليل، ولا أدري هل أرسطو حقا هو كاتب هذه السيرة التاريخية التي مثلت جزء الكتاب الأول أم لا ، ومهما يكن من أمرها فإن النعاس غالبني كثيرًا في هذا الجزء، فهو يقتضب الأحداث اقتضابًا يصيب بالدوار
ولكن من العجيب هذا الذي فعله صولن بعد كتابته للدستور، تقول الرواية أن صولن لم ينحز إلى أي فئة في وطنه، لا طبقة الأغنياء ولا طبقة عامة الشعب، واصطدم بهؤلاء وهؤلاء، وقال المؤلف هنا - أي أرسطو، والله ��علم - "بأنه اختار عداء كلتيهما وأنقذ الوطن بعد أن سنَّ له خير النظم!"، إلى درجة إنه قرر الهجرة خارج بلاد اليونان لمدة عشر سنوات للتجارة والسياحة، وذلك عقب وضعه للدستور، ليستريح أولاً من مناقشات الناس معه ولومه!، ولكي لا تُفسر الشرائع، فيتم تطبيقها وحسب!، وتقول الرواية أيضًا أن صولن دافع عن دستوره حتى أبعد مدى، لدرجة أنه قال: "فليتأكد الشعب أولاً أن ما يحظى به الآن ما كان سيراه بعينه ولا في الحلم"، وقال أيضًا صراحة: "لو أن آخر أحرز هذا المنصب لما كان تمكن من ضبط الشعب وكان سيتنحّى قبل أن يمخض اللبن ويقشط زبدته، وأما أنا، وأما أنا فقد انتصبتُ بين الطبقتين المتناحرتين كأنني حد من الحدود" .. لا فض فوك
ونص الدستور المنشور في الكتاب، والذي يمثل ثلث الكتاب الأخير أو أقل، خيّب توقعاتي قليلاً، فلا أعرف هل هذا هو الدستور الكامل أم تعرضت المخطوطة للنقص، كنت مثلا أريد قراءة ما يختص بحقوق المواطنة ووضع المرأة والكلام الجميل المذكور في (دساتيرنا) عن رعاية الدولة للآداب والفنون وحق الحرية والعدالة وتوفير لقمة العيش وما إلى ذلك، ولكن لم أجد هذا كله، وكان الحديث أمنيًا في غالبه، عن صلاحيات المجالس التشريعية ومجلس الشورى والقضاة والتجنيد والعقوبات الجنائية وسلطات الأمن ومراقبة الأسواق، ثم انتهى سريعًا كما بدأ
وكانت فيه جوانب مضيئة، فإلى جانب جعله لأفراد الأمة يشاركون في الحكم عن طريق إحيائه لمجلس الشعب، وتقسيمه العادل لشرائح الدخل وفرض ضريبة متناسبة معها، فإلى جانب هذا فأثينا كان تطرد من أرضها كل ملحد كي لا يتنجسوا به!، لأنهم كانوا يرون أن الرجل الكافر لا يمكن أن يتحلى بالفضائل الإنسانية الأساسية، ولإيمانهم العميق - كما يقول المحقق - بأن الإنسان دون خالقه لا يقوى على إتيان عمل، وكانت فيه فقرة أيضًا تتحدث عن حق الدولة في مراقبة الفرسان، وإذا ظهر الهزال والمرض على جواد أحد الفرسان، أُتهم بإنه يسيء إطعامه، ويلزمه دفع غرامة تسمي "نفقة معيشة الجواد!"، وتوجد فقرة أيضًا في الدستور عن منع وضع مزاريب أعلى المنازل تصب على الطريق، وعن ألا تفتح الأبواب باتجاه الطريق وإنما إلى الداخل، وعن إلزام عمال النظافة بطرح القاذورات على مسافة من أسوار المدينة لا تقل عن أثنين كيلو متر، وعن تشكيل لجان دائمة تتأكد من سلامة المقاييس والموازين في الأسواق
ثم أن جرائم السرقة والخطف والنشل لا عقاب لها في الدستور - إذا ثبتت التهمة - غير الإعدام
.
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نعم!، سافر العشر سنوات هذه، ثم عاد!، فوجد البلاد تخوض حربًا أهلية
:D
October 23, 2017
Sicuramente un testo ostico, sia per la materia sia per la natura frammentaria e spesso in contraddizione con altri testi. Le note per fortuna sono dettagliatissime.
Mi hanno colpita alcune cose:
- la democrazia greca era spesso tutt'altro che democratica, non mancavano corruzione, malversazioni e raggiri del popolo. Il popolo che aveva voce in capitolo era solo quello di discendenza pura e con possedimenti. Il popolo però da parte sua non restava immobile a subire, ma se era scontento spodestava i governanti (che finivano spesso condannati a morte).
- i governanti non percepivano stipendio ma erano anzi tenuti a partecipare alle assemblee pena sanzioni pecuniarie. Inoltre, dato che ottenevano le cariche in virtù del loro status sociale, erano spesso tenuti a finanziare di tasca loro vari eventi.
- le cariche pubbliche erano quasi tutte assegnate a sorteggio ma dopo di ciò i sorteggiati dovevano dimostrare, con testimoni, di avere tutte le carte in regola per governare.
Non un sistema perfetto, ma dopo vari errori avevano messo in atto molte procedure per prevenire brogli, nepotismo e corruzione.
Mi hanno colpita alcune cose:
- la democrazia greca era spesso tutt'altro che democratica, non mancavano corruzione, malversazioni e raggiri del popolo. Il popolo che aveva voce in capitolo era solo quello di discendenza pura e con possedimenti. Il popolo però da parte sua non restava immobile a subire, ma se era scontento spodestava i governanti (che finivano spesso condannati a morte).
- i governanti non percepivano stipendio ma erano anzi tenuti a partecipare alle assemblee pena sanzioni pecuniarie. Inoltre, dato che ottenevano le cariche in virtù del loro status sociale, erano spesso tenuti a finanziare di tasca loro vari eventi.
- le cariche pubbliche erano quasi tutte assegnate a sorteggio ma dopo di ciò i sorteggiati dovevano dimostrare, con testimoni, di avere tutte le carte in regola per governare.
Non un sistema perfetto, ma dopo vari errori avevano messo in atto molte procedure per prevenire brogli, nepotismo e corruzione.
April 14, 2021
لقد فقد هذا الكتاب ما يقرب عشرة قرون حتى ظهرت لها مخطوطة بردية مصرية عام 1879م ولقد ترجم النص مرتين إلى العربية من قبل طه حسين عن الفرنسية وثم ترجمة الأب بربارة عن اليونانية مباشرة
ولقد اطلعت على ترجمة بربارة وكانت ترجمة ممتازة فيما عدا أني واجهت صعوبة في تتبع الأعلام الذي نقلها بنصها اليوناني على عكس ما اعتدنا على شيوع الأسماء اليونانية في الترجمات العربية الأخرى المترجمة من اللغة الإنجليزية والفرنسية
ما عدا ذلك إن هذا النص أصيل فهو يظهر مسيرة اليونان في إرساء دعائم الدستور وحق الشعب في الحكم حتى عهد أرسطو وما تخلل تلك المسيرة من تغيرات واضطرابات ساهمت في تطوير منظومة الحكم والشرائع لا يسعك إلا أن تعجب بهذا التمدن المتطور التي حتى بعض الدول في زمننا لم تصل إليه رغم مرور أكثر من ألفان سنة وتزيد
ولقد اطلعت على ترجمة بربارة وكانت ترجمة ممتازة فيما عدا أني واجهت صعوبة في تتبع الأعلام الذي نقلها بنصها اليوناني على عكس ما اعتدنا على شيوع الأسماء اليونانية في الترجمات العربية الأخرى المترجمة من اللغة الإنجليزية والفرنسية
ما عدا ذلك إن هذا النص أصيل فهو يظهر مسيرة اليونان في إرساء دعائم الدستور وحق الشعب في الحكم حتى عهد أرسطو وما تخلل تلك المسيرة من تغيرات واضطرابات ساهمت في تطوير منظومة الحكم والشرائع لا يسعك إلا أن تعجب بهذا التمدن المتطور التي حتى بعض الدول في زمننا لم تصل إليه رغم مرور أكثر من ألفان سنة وتزيد
January 26, 2021
History of Athenian Constitution. Interesting as a basis for modern democratic constitutions. The history I found more interesting than the details of government but I found the way juries were picked, lotted out, and voted amusing.
October 15, 2021
It's a very dry read but also incredibly insightful into the working of the Athenian democracy. I learnt loads and got quite confused. It's part of my course to read it and I don't think I'll be picking it up again for a long long while.
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