Killing Titan

War Dogs #2

by Greg Bear

A new planet. A new battle. Same war.

After barely surviving his last tour on Mars, Master Sergeant Michael Venn finds himself back on earth in enforced isolation. Through a dangerous series of operations he returns to Mars to further his investigation into the Drifters -- ancient artifacts suddenly reawakened on the red planet.

But another front in the war leads his team to make the difficult journey to Saturn's moon, Titan. Here, in the cauldron of war, hides new truths about the Drifters, the origin of life in our solar system and the plans of the supposedly benevolent Gurus, who have been "sponsoring" and supporting humanity in their fight against outside invaders.

Killing Titan is the second book in the epic interstellar War Dogs trilogy from master of science fiction, Greg Bear.

Genres: Science Fiction, Fiction, Military Fiction, Audiobook, Military Science Fiction, Aliens, Science Fiction Fantasy

384 pages, Paperback

First published October 6, 2015

About the author

Greg Bear was an American writer and illustrator best known for science fiction. His work covered themes of galactic conflict (Forge of God books), parallel universes (The Way series), consciousness and cultural practices (Queen of Angels), and accelerated evolution (Blood Music, Darwin’s Radio, and Darwin’s Children). His last work was the 2021 novel The Unfinished Land. Greg Bear wrote over 50 books in total.

(For a more complete biography, see Wikipedia.)

Reviews

[Trish · Rating 3 out of 5]

This is the second volume in the War Dogs series. We're still following Michael Venn (Vinnie) after his return from Mars. When last we saw him, he had been "interviewed" by a woman and then had to leave abruptly. Here, he is in a government / Guru facility, under quarantine, and getting antsy. There seems to be some kind of contamination they are suspecting (in him as much as his comrades they managed to also apprehend).
When the orders are given to execute him, he manages to escape and learns that not all of humanity is just accepting the Gurus' orders and explanations anymore. Thus, we're soon back on Mars and then even on Titan to find out what the hell is going on.

We're still not much closer to knowing who/what the hell the Gurus are but we do know that they indeed instigated this war and that they have to keep us ignorant if they want their plan to succeed. Which is also a big WHY, explaining the orders to kill anyone who might know the slightet thing about the memory bank on Mars.

The whole idea surrounding the alien civilisation encountered in book one was a bit trippy (just like what the green dust did to Venn and others) but also pretty cool. I mean, uploading dead creatures' minds to have a huge library-like databank is brilliant! Just like the flashbacks to the other alien's life that Venn was shown. However, the explanation that the Gurus need someone to fight in a war for simple entertainment reasons was a bit weak in my opinion as I don't see why anyone would go to such lengths for so little benefit.

Add to that the fact that some things simply didn't add up - I'm not talking about the WHY and WHAT as we (by design) still don't have all the details. I'm talking about the characters. Like, why the hell did Venn suddenly have such intense feelings for the Martian girl that he even thought about kids and marriage? And then, as soon as he was so strongly infatuated that he even tried to punch his way through some other Skyrines, he was almost indifferent again, instead focusing on other females, any females - like a teenager?!
I also didn't like the author constantly said crabs are bugs. Crabs are crustacians and it is proven scientific knowledge that those are NOT the same as bugs any more than whales are the same as fish. *sighs* It's details like this that can really throw me off, especially when the person making such silly claims was first introduced as a well-read person!

However, the tech and the action (combat as much as the race for access to one of the "libraries") were pretty great and I was on the edge of my seat once again and will continue with book 3 tomorrow already so there is definitely something about the author's writing style that keeps me engaged. Thus, once again, "only" 3.5 stars but I'll round up as I did for the first book.

Edit: After finishing the trilogy, I'm down-rating because ... no.

[Bradley · Rating 4 out of 5]

I don't think I'll ever call this the best Space Opera mil-SF I've ever read, but it DOES have its moments. The fighting is quite a treat, in fact, as was the cool alien tech, the tea, the crystals, and all the reasons and purposes around them.

On the surface, it may appear very familiar to the SF trope world, but Bear digs deeper and serves up some really great and classy, mind-trip stuff. Oh, my uploadable universe. :) Taking the data stores of Eon and ramping it up big time.

On the other hand, I'm caught between treating this as lite-fare popcorn fiction with alien discovery elements showered with military action, moving out to the reaches of Titan. Did I already say I love the alien stuff? Well, I did, and the BIG QUESTION about the Guru's, those guys giving us tech and telling us to go fight this battle, became a bit clearer.

Too bad about the fallout of a little bit of information, right?

What didn't I like?

Well... some of the character stuff was a bit confusing or overblown, almost like the MC was under a drug haze, and that IS the big question here. Between the Tea, all the artifact stuff AND the Guru stuff they threw into the soldiers, it's slightly confusing. Is it coming from him, other's memories, mind-conditioning, or just plain post-traumatic stress disorder?

And then there's the thing about me and Mil-SF in general. I like it somewhat, but not always and I have to be in a mood for it. Is it me or is it this book?

Still, overall, as an SF, it was average-to-good. This trilogy is probably going to be at the bottom of the list for must-read Greg Bear, unfortunately, but as for popcorn, I'm okay with it.

[Tim Hicks · Rating 3 out of 5]

Three stars? Four? Can't decide.
There's a lot of futzing around on Mars as Bear sets the scene. I suppose it's necessary so Bear can gradually build up Venn's confusion and his need to get used to the voices he hears.. FInally they're on their way to Titan, and we know that there may be more than two sides to this war..

Others have tackled what it might be like to move around on Titan, and this is similar. Perhaps Bear relies a little too much on the "caps" and the super-smart nanomachinery to get plot snags out of the way; but if he didn't we'd get badly bogged down in hard, hard science.

And the crisis builds as the reader sees the number of remaining pages dwindling. And, unfortunately, we get a classic ending of the "he was once again in the clutches of Ming the Merciless! TO BE CONTINUED" endings. At this point, though, we DO see at last what's been going on. Next book will tell us how it all turns out.

I'll have to read #3 to see.

[Papaphilly · Rating 3 out of 5]

Part 2 of 3 and you need to read part 1 to understand Killing Titan. It is a nice job and well written, but it is certainly not a stand alone. Once again Greg Bear writes a deceptively complex novel within a simplistic style of prose and if you are either a Greg Bear fan or military science fiction fan, you will enjoy the work. Greg Bear has captured both the frustration and resignation of active troops on a mission they do not understand or even explained to them. I enjoyed Killing Titan and will read part 3.

[Mitchell Friedman · Rating 2 out of 5]

A lot of our pov character talking at us the reader. A lot less plot in this one than in book one. And the last third of the book just felt completely incoherent. Finishing this book was a slog. The ideas were still good but they were well hidden. Definitely didn't feel worth reading.

[Sable · Rating 4 out of 5]

This book is the sequel to War Dogs. Like the The Forge of God series by Bear, the second book has a very different focus and tone from the first book in the series, and I think that might be a bit off-putting to many readers.

The first book is Vietnam on Mars. This book is a scientific puzzle with some military trappings. Venn, our soldier from the first book who stumbled on evidence of an ancient intelligence in our solar system in the midst of a war we're taking part in by the direction of the "Gurus," a race of aliens who have been sharing their technology with us, for aid against the "Antagonists" (enemy aliens who are invading the system - or are they?) is dragged into a resistance movement. One faction of people who have been serving the Gurus' interests begin to question their motives and the stories they've been told. Tension is ratcheted up by the other factions, those who still serve the Gurus, pursuing this group. Those who have been ordered into the fray to "protect" Venn and another survivor from the first book are not necessarily on board with this. There's a lot of unnecessary information-guarding that I think is unrealistic considering the circumstances, and I also think it just slows down the plot.

I see why many people disliked this book, even if they liked the first one (which was by no means universal.) It feels a bit padded to me. All the stress of pursuit feels almost besides the point. What is important is Venn's ability to access the information that is shared through the alien intelligence. Even most of the delays thrown in to increase the tension of that plot feel somewhat contrived, and I admit, I got impatient with it on several occasions.

Ultimately it's still a great read, though. I chewed through this within a matter of a couple of days. And now we're poised to find our final answers to the mystery in the final book. Jury's still out, however, because whether or not I finally decide this book was awesome, or crap, will depend on the payoff in the final chapter.

[Sebastian · Rating 2 out of 5]

Another unnecessary novel that serves as the middle book in a trilogy. Honestly, though, people, this fixation on trilogies as a default format is becoming unhealthy. This entire book could have been skipped - it is all one dude being carted around the solar system with absolutely zero agency while occasionally being exposed to massive expository infodumps. Occasionally he grabs a gun and shoots vaguely at stuff, but the way I described it here is just about as exciting as it gets in the novel. The only reason this is not a straight-up one-star is that I actually liked those infodumps, but if the big twist of your novel is going to be a pretty standard sci-fi trope, there simply has to be some more meat on the story and/or characters.

[Fredrick Danysh · Rating 3 out of 5]

Killing Titan is much more lucid than its predecessor, War Dogs. Sky-rine Master Sergeant Venn is rescued from the institution that is holding him and returned to Mars where the multi-species war continues. Venn's biggest struggle is to remain alive and sane.

[Charles · Rating 2 out of 5]

I was lukewarm on War Dogs, the first in the series. This book is good as well as bad in the same way as that book.

Frankly, Greg Bear is a good hard SF writer. I can continue to forgive his continued foray into the lunatic fringe sub-genre of military science fiction, because there is (mostly planetary) science in the fiction of this book. To Bear's credit, the combat in this series story is not Rambo-esque, as it is in the worst of this sub-genre.

However, given that, I think his monosyllabic, grunts with their arcane argot are the most uninteresting characters he's ever created. (I've read several of his books.)

Finally, this book is not the end of the series. I'm not likely to read the next in the series. However, I recommend reading Bear's Queen of Angels over the War Dogs books as a better example of his work.

If you feel compelled to read MIL-SF-Pr0n, I recommend All You Need Is Kill or Armor as best-of-breed in this debased sub-genre. I think that The Martian is still the best Mars SF to read. The best ice moon story has yet to be written.

[Dennis (nee) Hearon · Rating 4 out of 5]

A solid second entry in the War Dogs trilogy. This one shifted from a Starship Trooper arc to more of a galactic space opera with overtones of Ridley Scott's Prometheus but with some heavy, hard science descriptions of Mars and the Jovian Moons. Nevertheless, it never loses its feel of a story of a space marine "grunt's" perspective of combat. A treat for Greg Bear fans and lovers of "hard" science fiction.

[Zozo · Rating 2 out of 5]

This was so bad. The whole book felt like the anteroom for something big, but when you finally arrive at the main attraction, the book is over. And the main attraction, the “big twist” was a joke. It was so unoriginal, I cannot begin to compare.
The atmosphere of the book is grim and pessimistic and I was fed up with it right from the beginning.

[Erik · Rating 3 out of 5]

Good read in this second book of the trilogy but found some of the descriptions to be hard to grasp. I'm used to Bears style of prose but it made the reading a chore at points. Still optimistic that the finale will be good. Solid sci-if.

[Alistair · Rating 2 out of 5]

Like most second books of a trilogy, this just sets up the third book and the finale.

It was so boring and tedious that I almost gave up a number of times and to be honest, it will take some effort to be bothered to read the third book.

[James Cox · Rating 4 out of 5]

Great sci fi action. I enjoyed this book.

[James · Rating 2 out of 5]

Similar to the first, somewhat incoherent with a cliff hanger ending.

[Jesse C · Rating 2 out of 5]

Learning more about the Gorus and the bugs was interesting . . . for maybe 40 pages and the rest of this book was really a slog.

[reherrma · Rating 2 out of 5]

Auch im zweiten Band seiner "War-Dogs-Trilogie" bekommt Bear m.E. die Qualität seiner früheren Romane nicht hin, mit der er bei mir immer hoch im Kurs stand.
Der Stil dieser Trilogie ist sehr ungewöhnlich und schwer zu entziffern, da hilft es auch nicht, wenn Andreas Brandhorst als Übersetzer versucht, dem Orginalstil in der deutschen Übersetzung gerecht zu werden, die ganze Sache wirkt für mich sehr unrund.
Im ersten Band der Trilogie hat Greg Bear nicht immer überzeugend versucht, den Leser möglichst nahe an das militärische Geschehen heranzuführen, wobei die Handlung stark konfus und vor allem überdehnt erscheint. Um den zweiten Band zu verstehen, sollte man den ersten sehr genau und nicht oberflächlich gelesen haben, denn Bear steigt ohne Erklärungen ein und kommt gleich zur Sache.
Vinnie Venn wird aus der Quarantäne befreit, mit seiner alten Einheit zum Mars zurück gebracht und dann wieder in Richtung Saturn geschickt. Dort sollen sie versuchen, wieder die Kontrolle über den Titan erlangen, der von den außerirdischen Agressoren besetzt worden ist. Hinzu kommt, dass Venn und seine Leute anscheinend zumindest von den "guten" Außerirdischen für Experimente missbraucht worden sind. Venn ist nicht alleine in seinem Kopf. Neben einem gefallenen Kameraden scheint er die Erinnerungen von Kreaturen in sich zu beherbergen, die älter als das Leben auf der Erde sind.
Wie beim ersten Buch ist das größte Problem die Struktur des Plots. Den Saturn bzw. den Titan erreichen Venn und seine Leute erst auf den letzten neunzig Seiten, in diesem letzten, viel zu kurzen, Abschnitt beginnt der Roman wirklich zu leben. Leider unterminiert Bear diesen Ansatz mit einem Cliffhanger, so dass das plötzlich beginnende Lesevergnügen zu einem Coitius Interruptus führt...
Die Idee eines Stellvertreterkrieges ist nicht neu, aber Bear schafft es m.E. nicht dies in einem einigermaßen lesegerechten Schreibstil darzulegen, immerhin bin ich auf die Auflösung des Konflikes gespannt, nicht ohne darüber enttäuscht zu sein, dass es Bear seit einigen Jahren nicht mehr schafft, seine, bereits mehrfach bewiesene, Qualität als Hard Science Autor in Literatur umzumünzen...

[DaniLanglie · Rating 4 out of 5]

I definitely appreciate the escalation. The first book in this trilogy, looking back, has a lot of setup and not a great deal of payoff. Here, we get tons of payoff, and when the novel ends, you're left surprised and worried and excited for what comes next.

I will say, though, that this book doesn't read very "sci-fi" to me. I know that sounds weird, but it's playing with so many generic (as in typical of the genre) tropes, without feeling like a hard science fiction novel like I'm used to when I read Greg Bear. There are aliens, but they have a surprising (or kinda obvious) connection to humans. The benevolent race of super-intelligent aliens who have been helping humans out turn out to have ulterior motives. Ya don't say! There's even the somewhat cliche concept of humans discovering that they are being manipulated purely for the amusement of a higher life form. And yet there's really nothing about the technology, or how all of this works in a practical, science-y kind of way. I'm not even complaining about that, since I'm not a big fan of hard sci-fi, but it just strikes me as weird. It's like this book has all the trappings of science fiction without the follow-through.

I could do without most of the characters, they just kind of bore me, but the concepts and the story are keeping me really compelled. I genuinely want to know how this all turns out!

[Sarah · Rating 3 out of 5]

War is confusion. Battles are chaos. The grunt doesn't know the where or why, he only does and dies. At least this grunt is important, and gets glimpses of something important about the story of his world and why they are fighting the unknowable Antags. But he is still pulled without choice, back to Mars and on to Titan, following orders, following the directions of his superiors. I think Greg Bear captures well what it means to be a grunt, what it means to be a soldier, a "Skyrine." Marines are notorious for following orders without questions, like their brainwashing...er...I mean...training... is just better than other military branches. But it needs to be. Hesitation can get you or or battle buddies killed. And so Venn, the grunt, goes where he needs to go. He may not want to understand, but others need to know, and what they find is important, so they might finally stop fighting in an unwinnable war.

[Dee · Rating 4 out of 5]

As with some of Bear’s previous works that I’ve read, the second book in the series is quite different in tone than the first. (Not that it’s a bad thing!)

This second book takes in more of the world building (universe building?), delves way more into the history of the planets. Several science fiction tropes that I really love were used well here - Planet X, a bit of Panspermia. Some new characters are added with this one- all pretty well developed. Great dynamics all the way across.

A lot of things surprised me about this series. One of the main things is how it’s really out of the norm for me, I normally HATE first person present tense, with very few exceptions (looking at you, Red Rising.) But first person present works so well here because it puts you into the mind of the MC, Vinny- and poor Vinny has no clue what’s happening, so it’s quite an experience as a reader to go along with Vinny on this trippy science fiction journey. The reader discovers what’s going on right along with Vinny- we don’t know any more than he does.. and this works SO well with this trilogy.

I still have so many questions about what the hell is actually going on in this series and I can’t wait to (hopefully) find out in the last book.

[Lee Yun · Rating 4 out of 5]

Took some time to get back into this story line as I last read War Dogs in 2014 or 2015.

Greg Bear excels at world and story building and I like how the story is told from Master Sergeant Vin's point of view. Coherent - incoherent, dreamlike - realistic; Bear excels at switching between styles seemingly at random. While it might take a while for unfamiliar readers to get used to it, or put them off entirely, this style definitely does an excellent job at creating the mysterious environment surrounding the Antags and the Gurus.

While War Dogs was more of a war novel, this book focuses a lot more on the people-people interactions that arise from the tense and confusing situations that the characters often find themselves in.

All in all, a solid read that leaves the reader wanting for more.

[Nick · Rating 3 out of 5]

This one had several "this is the second volume in a 3-volume series" minor problems. It felt like some of the things were being set up to not resolve before the end of this book, and that's okay, but it means that as a story, this book didn't feel complete.
Also, the whole subplot of wondering whether the Gurus are really the good guys or the bad guys got a little drawn out. The supposed answer didn't flow smoothly, especially as motives for the story came out. The "profit motive" of the bad guys, in particular, didn't feel right to me.
The heart of the story, which is about the central character now being so "infiltrated" by alien information that he's not quite "normal" was interesting, but also felt dragged out just a bit.
So, this volume was good enough to make me want to read the third one, but also flawed enough to make me glad that it's not a longer series.

[Brent · Rating 3 out of 5]

While I enjoyed this-- Bear once again shows his adept ability to describe wildly non-earthlike environs and their likely impacts on human beings-- I was a bit disappointed: this is the middle act of a three act play. As a result, while it moves the narrative along, it ultimately fails to satisfy the questions raised in the first novel (novella?).

I came away feeling as though, at the very least, this and the subsequent "Take Back the Sky" would have been better served collected into a single novel. The last quarter of the near-400 pages is an "excerpt" from the third book in the series, suggesting the same. I'm sure that was purely a publishing decision over which Bear had little control, but it was annoying.

That said, I enjoyed the story and expect to enjoy the third, as well.

[Kayla Gray · Rating 2 out of 5]

I went into this book knowing that it was outside of my usual genres (and I was excited about that) but it just fell flat for me. I struggled to understand a lot of what was going on…and found out, once I had already read 3/4 of it, that it is the second book in a series 🤦🏼‍♀️ At this point, I’m going to give the book the benefit of the doubt and say it was because I haven’t read the first one that it was so confusing. That being said, it did feel like it was due to the writing. I felt like the plot should’ve still been easy enough to follow and, for me, it just wasn’t. I am interested to read the first book and come back to compare whether or not it was the writing or me that made this book so unorganized and all over the place. If/when I get to that, I’ll make sure to update my review.

[Mike Franklin · Rating 3 out of 5]

Killing Titan is a good solid sequel to War Dogs. It’s not the best military SF I’ve ever read but it’s not bad and the battle sequences are solid if sometimes a touch confusing. The whole premise of the alien ‘Gurus’ and ‘Antags’ (Antagonists) is intriguing with the constant nagging feeling that there is something more going on that the Gurus, Earth’s allies, are not disclosing. Bear drives the narrative along well with slow but steady revelations leading to an eventual cliff-hanger ending, which I normally don’t like, but in this case the reader is given enough to satisfy the questions raised in the story so far and neatly leads you into the possibilities of the final book in the trilogy. A solid satisfying read though I do prefer his earlier works.

[David · Rating 3 out of 5]

This book has a bad case of "middle-chapter-itis." The first book worked as a stand alone story, but this really doesn't, as there is no ending at all: the story simply stops, to be picked up and given an actual conclusion in the third volume.

It's Bear, so he's going to be interesting, but this doesn't feel quite as taut as War Dogs did. Also, it gets a bit bogged down in developments that are necessary for the plot to move forward but don't make a whole lot of sense from the characters' point of view.

[Cheng Bogdani · Rating 3 out of 5]

Decent military scifi, mixing in a few scifi tropes you don't always see in this subgenre. Interesting and quick enough I went on to the third book. In retrospect, trying to write this review a couple of months after reading it - I'm not sure where Book2 leaves off and Book3 picks up - all three of the books I read could be in a single volume.


Bechdel test? NO
Mako Mori test? NO
Vito Russo test? NO
Latif test? NO

Reading Level: easy adult
Romance: NO
Smut: NO
Violence: yes
TW: military violence, harsh language

Kindle only?
----- Pre 2023? (IYKYK)

[Redsteve · Rating 3 out of 5]

This one was OK, but I defiantly enjoyed it less than I did WAR DOGS (#1). KILLING TITAN starts out on Earth with more intrigue than it's predecessor, but the action quickly moves into space (Mars and Titan) with more "straight SF" - incomprehensible aliens, weird science, strange and deadly environments, etc. Not bad, but not generally my bag either. Some of my guesses about the alien "Gurus" from WAR DOGS appear to be correct, but thigs are still very up in the air by the end of this book. Honestly, i

[Chris Gillies · Rating 3 out of 5]

Really loved the first book, some great ideas and some great enigmas ready for a big reveal somewhere down the line. This book teases with those enigmas, but ultimately the plot seems to lose its way on the way to Titan. The almost casual way in which some of the supporting cast die serves to divorce you from feeling any connection with those that remain. I ploughed straight from this into the 3rd book and found that even more disappointing, but more on that in a later review.

[Kyla Borcherds · Rating 4 out of 5]

This book takes forever to get going. In fact, most of the first half of the book doesn't really seem to advance the story in any significant way. But once you get past that, wow! The second half of the book is classic Greg Bear - superb worldbuilding and plot twists that blow your mind! It is totally worth persevering with this one, because by the time you get to the end, you won't want to put it down.