Conversations with Ogotemmêli: An Introduction to Dogon Religious Ideas

by Marcel Griaule, Germaine Dieterlen (Introduction)

Originally published in 1948 as Dieu d'Eau, this near-classic offers a unique and first-hand account of the myth, religion, and philosophy of the Dogon.

Genres: Anthropology, Africa, Religion, Mythology, Nonfiction, Philosophy, Cultural

256 pages, Paperback

First published January 1, 1948

Reviews

[Gavin White · Rating 4 out of 5]

A fascinating introduction to an ancient traditional society and its patterns of thought. The book is written up from a series of conversations with a Dogon elder. From seemingly simple beginnings, a complex system of thought and classification is gradually built up. The overall impression that the book tries to convey is that traditional African societies are founded on as profound a basis as any other and that they deserve far greater attention than they have previously received.
It is quite a difficult book to understand as many of the ideas and symbols are so foreign to a western mindset. Nevertheless it is an introduction to more serious Dogon thought as found in 'The Pale Fox' by the same author.

[Halliday · Rating 5 out of 5]

Ancient cities rise again forever, descending spiralwise from dogstar gulfs --- listen as the old man mumbles blood prayers in the night -- frail sabbath of our eternity. This truth will twist your ears retortwise into gleaming mind-walls older than the tales your grandma sang. Read and forget, read and remember, a self beyond the self you will die with.

[Shila Iris · Rating 5 out of 5]

I initially intended to read this book in 33 days. A chapter a day, but as I delved into it, I realized that I needed to ruminate after every chapter. I read it bit by bit, over a course of months, simultaneously reading other things that were related. I have, for some time been interested in our Dogon ancestors of Sudan, and this was my introduction. I am forever grateful for this conversation. I feel and know the importance of it all. It’s a treasure trove of wisdom, a cosmology of Us. Grateful for every voice. I continue to attract the pieces of our puzzle.

[Parks · Rating 4 out of 5]

This book includes trans/poly sexed incestuous river spirits, silent dialects housed in the noses of hyenas used to ask the fox about its own death, and more. As I understand it, no one's been able to find Dogon folks who corroborate the stories Marcel dug up. Whether the Dogon folks decided to stop talking to outsiders or Ogotemmeli was a gifted and lone tale-spinner hardly matters to me.

[Kevin · Rating 5 out of 5]

we live in a compartmentalized western nightmare

[Andrew · Rating 4 out of 5]

The Dogon are known for their complex cosmology. This work is a good introduction to their religious thought and ideas.

[Amlux · Rating 3 out of 5]

Being twins and all, I couldn't help but imagine the Nummo as Nukie and Miko the whole time I was reading.

That bit of callous (but true!) thought aside, this is an incredible account of a very unique worldview that I still am mystified by in a lot of ways. There's no discussion of Sirius B and that mystery (which is probably not due to shapeshifting Rothschild aliens, as fun as it is to imagine), but there are definitely some bits in here that those dedicated to esotericism will get a kick out of. But I don't mean to denigrate the anthropological depth of this work either, which it clearly has a ton of outside of fun tinfoil hat speculation.

[Fabio Bertino · Rating 5 out of 5]

Una dele pietre miliari dell'antropologia

[Devero · Rating 3 out of 5]

Era un pezzo che desideravo recuperare e leggere questo testo, per diversi motivi legati al mio interesse sia per Martin Mystère sia per l'antropologia, e ancora per lo studio degli enigmi non ancora chiariti della storia umana (e non solo).
Griaule e la sua eqipe per decenni hanno lavorato con le culture dell'impero francese in Africa occidentale per scopi scientifici. Questo volume raccoglie, in forma di narrazione per lo più giornalistica e non prettamente etnografica, l'intervista, per oltre un mese, di questo Ogotemelli, un cieco anziano ex cacciatore. Uno che in gioventù aveva certamente viaggiato parecchio, e che era depositario delle credenze del suo popolo, o almeno della sua famiglia.
Decisamente interessante e realistica la descrizione di come e dove avvengono i colloqui, un'aia sporca e polverosa fuori dell'abitazione dell'anziano, tra galli, pecore, bambini e donne che spiano e origliano. Ma le rivelazioni sono di tipo mitico, fantastico (nel senso di opposto al reale) e questo crea un contrasto che, letterariamente parlando, funziona ottimamente.
Molte delle risposte alle domande di Griaule sono virgolettate, e immagino che questo indichi che sono prese dagli appunti dello scienziato come parole originali di Ogotemelli. Altre sono riassunti, non virgolettati.
Tutta la parte sulla gemellarità, l'ossessione dell'idea che tutti abbiamo un anima maschile e una femminile, e che l'anima principale sia quella del sesso mostrato, e che l'altra vada escissa dal corpo (mutilazioni genitali) è impressionante per come pervade tutta la parte cosmogonica mitica del racconto.
Anche tutta la parte sulle anime dei morti, su come venga considerata la morte e sulla pragmaticità dei riti è di grande interesse. Come lo è l'idea, comune a altre culture, che il diritto all'ubriachezza è solo per gli anziani, per chi ha lavorato tutta la vita ed ora ne è alla fine, mentre gli altri devono o astenersi o essere estremamente moderati.

Mi ha colpito l'ultimo capitolo prima della chiusura, con l'annuncio della avvenuta morte di Ogotemelli. In questo capitolo, tutto scritto di suo pugno senza virgolette o altro, Griaule espone una sua considerazione (quasi una ipotesi) sui parallelismi tra lo zodiaco occidentale e la visione che delle costellazioni avevano i Dogon, o almeno l'anziano Ogotemelli, e sul significato simbolico e i richiami alla mitologia.
Comunque, in questo testo nulla si dice di Sirio. In effetti saranno articoli successivi quelli che ne parleranno.

Certamente il libro meritava una lettura, e le 3 stelle sono un giudizio non su quanto Griaule ha raccolto come testimonianza, bensì sul suo modo di raccontare al grande pubblico. Non so quanto la traduzione possa avere peggiorato (o migliorato) l'originale, perché certamente alcuni passaggi non sono chiari, ma se questo dipenda dall'originale di Griaule, o da alcune carenze tecnico-linguistiche del linguaggio etnologico non lo so.

[Mark · Rating 4 out of 5]

There are two parts to this book, the first is the conversation with Ogotemmeli and the second is the surrounding activities in the Dogon village happening during the conversation. Both parts are insightful and interesting. It would seem the Ogotemmeli was the wisest elder and according to the linguists in the expedition, the purest of speech of all the villages. The knowledge he imparted to the anthropologist Griaule was slipping away from the majority of the Dogon population and he was probably the last member of the tribe to grasp the intricacies of the culture. Since the surrounding tribes in Mali practiced Islam and the lure of the cities offered Western culture, many of the old ways were fast disappearing. The first world war actually stalled the flow of foreign goods into the country and so helped to stall the advance of change for a little while.
Ogotemmeli describes in detail every facet of traditional life among the Dogon. All material goods, professions, ceremony, behavior and decorum have corresponding parallels in the mythology and cosmology of the people. The way in which Ogotemmeli draws correlations between the material world and the spiritual world is fascinating.

[Walker Trimble · Rating 5 out of 5]

2021 was the year when I read perhaps the two most enjoyable books of my life, this and Karl von Frisch's Animal Architecture. This is a subtle book, that needs to grow on you. At first there is a colonial tinge over the author's style, but you soon see that this is a strategy to give the forefront to Dogon ideas. Don't judge too quickly, this is a fine book respected, used by and expanded greatly upon by African philosophers.
What I most learned here is that the Dogon have an extremely sophisticated metaphysics that differs in its principles from that of all other forms of philosophy I know. Forefront in this is that culture (especially metallurgy) is at the root of nature, and not the reverse.

[Ananda · Rating 4 out of 5]

Sebbene sia un testo di antropologia bello e buono, a leggerlo appare a volte come un romanzo fantasy.Scritto con uno stile a volte un po' monotono, riesce a tenere desta l'attenzione del lettore che man mano che le pagine scorrono arriva a stupirsi della complessità strutturale del mito Dogon, mito che regola attivamente la vita quotidiana fin nei dettagli più impensabili.

[Matt Brant]

Social anthropologist Griaule reports a Dogon world view, cosmogony, and philosophy in elaborate detail. The old blind man, Ogotemmeli, tells the Dogon creation myth and how that myth influences basket-making, granary and house design, field cultivation, making pottery, smithing, weaving and drumming. Elegantly written in 32 short chapters, it would probably be of interest to sociologists, anthropologists, ethnographers, and students of comparative religion. For the general reader (like me), it's interesting to read about ancient forms of world thought, but challenging too: this was the hardest book that I read in 2007.

[Gustav Larsson · Rating 5 out of 5]

"An introduction to Dogon religious ideas", basically written (spoken) by a Dogon elder himself. Griaule is his humble (or so we hope!) secretary, and reinforces Ogotemmêli's stories with his own ethnographic observations. A truly beautiful book, filled with intricate stories about (for example) the complex nature of sexual relations, Life, and Birth.

[Nikki · Rating 3 out of 5]

We were assigned a little more than half this text for my African Traditions course. Definitely offers a great look at the Dogon culture. Very detailed. Fascinating to see the ideas and traditions from what really feels like a completely different world.

[Richard · Rating 4 out of 5]

Read this decades ago on the recommendation of an anthro professor. It's a classic study of a particular religion/folklore from one man's point of view. If you're interested in what makes a non-mainstream religion tick, this is a place to start.

[Lyndsey Wolfe]

This was a really interesting, kind of written like an ethnography.

[Deanie · Rating 5 out of 5]

This book has influenced me in so many ways but most importantly, it encouraged me to have an open mind.

[Jönathan · Rating 5 out of 5]

Fascinating description of the culture and symbol systems of the Dogon of Mali.

[Romà Giménez Jori · Rating 4 out of 5]

Un llibre meravellós per endinsar-te a la cultura dels Dogon. Un clàssic de l'antropologia escrit amb elegància i amor per la cultura amb la qual Marcel Griaule va conviure tants anys.

[versarbre]

A different way of doing fieldwork and rendering solid ethnographic records! I skipped most tellings by Ogotemmeli because I do not how to contextualize them and do not have the time to digest his ideas anyway....But the way Griaule's team made the "interview" records made me wonder about my own interviews, and wanted to learn from them.

Btw, it turned out Griaule was the first one to introduce amazing Dogan astrological knowledge to the European world that they had very detailed knowledge about the white dwarf star Sirius B!