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Los Límites del Pensamiento
La amistad entre Jiddu Krishnamurti, uno de los sabios más grandes de nuestro tiempo, y David Bohm, uno de los físicos más aclamados del siglo XX, abarcó casi un cuarto de siglo. Durante este lapso sostuvieron frecuentes diálogos sobre la problemática del individuo moderno y sobre las posibilidades de liberarse de la actividad egocéntrica e ignorante.
Esta es una serie de fascinantes diálogos entre Krishnamurti y Bohm. La cuestión de partida es: si la verdad es algo totalmente diferente de la realidad, entonces ¿qué rol desempeña la acción en relación a la verdad y la realidad? A partir de este interrogante los interlocutores exploran la naturaleza de la conciencia y de la condición humana. El resultado: un magistral debate acerca de conceptos como la verdad, el amor, el deseo, la lucidez, la tradición o la conciencia.
Esta es una serie de fascinantes diálogos entre Krishnamurti y Bohm. La cuestión de partida es: si la verdad es algo totalmente diferente de la realidad, entonces ¿qué rol desempeña la acción en relación a la verdad y la realidad? A partir de este interrogante los interlocutores exploran la naturaleza de la conciencia y de la condición humana. El resultado: un magistral debate acerca de conceptos como la verdad, el amor, el deseo, la lucidez, la tradición o la conciencia.
229 pages, Paperback
First published December 17, 1998
34 people are currently reading
923 people want to read
About the author
J. Krishnamurti
1,339 books4,314 followersJiddu Krishnamurti was born on 11 May 1895 in Madanapalle, a small town in south India. He and his brother were adopted in their youth by Dr Annie Besant, then president of the Theosophical Society. Dr Besant and others proclaimed that Krishnamurti was to be a world teacher whose coming the Theosophists had predicted. To prepare the world for this coming, a world-wide organization called the Order of the Star in the East was formed and the young Krishnamurti was made its head.
In 1929, however, Krishnamurti renounced the role that he was expected to play, dissolved the Order with its huge following, and returned all the money and property that had been donated for this work.
From then, for nearly sixty years until his death on 17 February 1986, he travelled throughout the world talking to large audiences and to individuals about the need for a radical change in humankind.
Krishnamurti is regarded globally as one of the greatest thinkers and religious teachers of all time. He did not expound any philosophy or religion, but rather talked of the things that concern all of us in our everyday lives, of the problems of living in modern society with its violence and corruption, of the individual's search for security and happiness, and the need for humankind to free itself from inner burdens of fear, anger, hurt, and sorrow. He explained with great precision the subtle workings of the human mind, and pointed to the need for bringing to our daily life a deeply meditative and spiritual quality.
Krishnamurti belonged to no religious organization, sect or country, nor did he subscribe to any school of political or ideological thought. On the contrary, he maintained that these are the very factors that divide human beings and bring about conflict and war. He reminded his listeners again and again that we are all human beings first and not Hindus, Muslims or Christians, that we are like the rest of humanity and are not different from one another. He asked that we tread lightly on this earth without destroying ourselves or the environment. He communicated to his listeners a deep sense of respect for nature. His teachings transcend belief systems, nationalistic sentiment and sectarianism. At the same time, they give new meaning and direction to humankind's search for truth. His teaching, besides being relevant to the modern age, is timeless and universal.
Krishnamurti spoke not as a guru but as a friend, and his talks and discussions are based not on tradition-based knowledge but on his own insights into the human mind and his vision of the sacred, so he always communicates a sense of freshness and directness although the essence of his message remained unchanged over the years. When he addressed large audiences, people felt that Krishnamurti was talking to each of them personally, addressing his or her particular problem. In his private interviews, he was a compassionate teacher, listening attentively to the man or woman who came to him in sorrow, and encouraging them to heal themselves through their own understanding. Religious scholars found that his words threw new light on traditional concepts. Krishnamurti took on the challenge of modern scientists and psychologists and went with them step by step, discussed their theories and sometimes enabled them to discern the limitations of those theories. Krishnamurti left a large body of literature in the form of public talks, writings, discussions with teachers and students, with scientists and religious figures, conversations with individuals, television and radio interviews, and letters. Many of these have been published as books, and audio and video recordings.
This author also writes under: Jiddu Krishnamurti
In 1929, however, Krishnamurti renounced the role that he was expected to play, dissolved the Order with its huge following, and returned all the money and property that had been donated for this work.
From then, for nearly sixty years until his death on 17 February 1986, he travelled throughout the world talking to large audiences and to individuals about the need for a radical change in humankind.
Krishnamurti is regarded globally as one of the greatest thinkers and religious teachers of all time. He did not expound any philosophy or religion, but rather talked of the things that concern all of us in our everyday lives, of the problems of living in modern society with its violence and corruption, of the individual's search for security and happiness, and the need for humankind to free itself from inner burdens of fear, anger, hurt, and sorrow. He explained with great precision the subtle workings of the human mind, and pointed to the need for bringing to our daily life a deeply meditative and spiritual quality.
Krishnamurti belonged to no religious organization, sect or country, nor did he subscribe to any school of political or ideological thought. On the contrary, he maintained that these are the very factors that divide human beings and bring about conflict and war. He reminded his listeners again and again that we are all human beings first and not Hindus, Muslims or Christians, that we are like the rest of humanity and are not different from one another. He asked that we tread lightly on this earth without destroying ourselves or the environment. He communicated to his listeners a deep sense of respect for nature. His teachings transcend belief systems, nationalistic sentiment and sectarianism. At the same time, they give new meaning and direction to humankind's search for truth. His teaching, besides being relevant to the modern age, is timeless and universal.
Krishnamurti spoke not as a guru but as a friend, and his talks and discussions are based not on tradition-based knowledge but on his own insights into the human mind and his vision of the sacred, so he always communicates a sense of freshness and directness although the essence of his message remained unchanged over the years. When he addressed large audiences, people felt that Krishnamurti was talking to each of them personally, addressing his or her particular problem. In his private interviews, he was a compassionate teacher, listening attentively to the man or woman who came to him in sorrow, and encouraging them to heal themselves through their own understanding. Religious scholars found that his words threw new light on traditional concepts. Krishnamurti took on the challenge of modern scientists and psychologists and went with them step by step, discussed their theories and sometimes enabled them to discern the limitations of those theories. Krishnamurti left a large body of literature in the form of public talks, writings, discussions with teachers and students, with scientists and religious figures, conversations with individuals, television and radio interviews, and letters. Many of these have been published as books, and audio and video recordings.
This author also writes under: Jiddu Krishnamurti
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Displaying 1 - 19 of 19 reviews
September 3, 2016
I’ve decided not to rate this four stars, and pretend I know what the fuck they were talking about. For those who don’t know, Jiddu Krishnamurti was born in India in the 1920’s, and was branded one of the smartest, most groundbreaking philosophers of his time ... perhaps even more renowned than Nicholas Flamel. His area of study was the psychological infrastructure on which is based the minds of humankind. I’ve not looked further than the first paragraph of Wikipedia, cause I’m a busy man, but if you hate religion, individuality, pleasure, or anything else that exists within the world of tangible acknowledgement, and you want your friends to think you’re an asshole, then I recommend checking him out.
This book is what I’m about to say it is. Fucking, it’s a book of engaging dialogue between Krishnamurti and the renowned physicist, David Bohm. Effing, to further stress the point, it’s a book of actually rather tedious dialogue about things that make sense in a way that doesn’t, because I just took their words straight through one ear and then straight out the other. Kind of like shooting myself in the head, the impact went right through. It interacted with my brain, but in a way I’m not entirely happy with.
To sum up what I make of this book, I guess it focuses mostly on “thought” - (that is, the process of human thought, which the book continually stresses is mechanical, unreliable, the catalyst to our misery and depression, as it distorts our sense of “reality" ... which is not what is, but rather what seems to be, or something to do with truth being part of the “particular" but also part of the “general," and actually not part of the "particular" because truth is what is, and that is supposedly the essence).
So I’m scratching my head and wondering if I’m just a dumb shit. Krishnamurti and Bohm rally off their thoughts on such broad subjects as “the intelligence of love,” “desire and goodness”, “the realm beyond attention and awareness”, and all these other things you think you think you’ll get a grasp on ... until you actually read it.
And look, I’m not trying to being a dickhead. My psychiatrist says my brain was damaged beyond repair when I started sniffing fly spray to numb myself through the mental trauma of my friends not replying on Facebook - (even though it tells me they’ve officially seen my goddamned messages!!) - asking if they wanna hang out. Smart people - (well, perhaps even normal people) - may very well love this book and make sense of it. But I’d be a lying bastard if I said I felt enlightened having read this thing.
To me, it was basically two pompous individuals answering questions with questions, continuously contradicting themselves, and really establishing no other revelation than that we are all fucked, because our brains are too conditioned and our world is just an illusion we’ve been fed since we were infants. Gee, I might purchase an assault rifle and shoot out the shopping centre, having gained this dismal perception that everything is fake and we're just living in the matrix. There is no God, there is no truth, there is no salvation. There is nothing.
And once we finally accept that proposition, we will “be”.
Just that. We will “be”.
And ain’t that the goddamned truth?
Because I’ll be reading something else.
This book is what I’m about to say it is. Fucking, it’s a book of engaging dialogue between Krishnamurti and the renowned physicist, David Bohm. Effing, to further stress the point, it’s a book of actually rather tedious dialogue about things that make sense in a way that doesn’t, because I just took their words straight through one ear and then straight out the other. Kind of like shooting myself in the head, the impact went right through. It interacted with my brain, but in a way I’m not entirely happy with.
To sum up what I make of this book, I guess it focuses mostly on “thought” - (that is, the process of human thought, which the book continually stresses is mechanical, unreliable, the catalyst to our misery and depression, as it distorts our sense of “reality" ... which is not what is, but rather what seems to be, or something to do with truth being part of the “particular" but also part of the “general," and actually not part of the "particular" because truth is what is, and that is supposedly the essence).
So I’m scratching my head and wondering if I’m just a dumb shit. Krishnamurti and Bohm rally off their thoughts on such broad subjects as “the intelligence of love,” “desire and goodness”, “the realm beyond attention and awareness”, and all these other things you think you think you’ll get a grasp on ... until you actually read it.
And look, I’m not trying to being a dickhead. My psychiatrist says my brain was damaged beyond repair when I started sniffing fly spray to numb myself through the mental trauma of my friends not replying on Facebook - (even though it tells me they’ve officially seen my goddamned messages!!) - asking if they wanna hang out. Smart people - (well, perhaps even normal people) - may very well love this book and make sense of it. But I’d be a lying bastard if I said I felt enlightened having read this thing.
To me, it was basically two pompous individuals answering questions with questions, continuously contradicting themselves, and really establishing no other revelation than that we are all fucked, because our brains are too conditioned and our world is just an illusion we’ve been fed since we were infants. Gee, I might purchase an assault rifle and shoot out the shopping centre, having gained this dismal perception that everything is fake and we're just living in the matrix. There is no God, there is no truth, there is no salvation. There is nothing.
And once we finally accept that proposition, we will “be”.
Just that. We will “be”.
And ain’t that the goddamned truth?
Because I’ll be reading something else.
August 11, 2015
Not an easy read,but it does get easier towards the end.The discussions centre around the nature of intelligence that frees the brain from its conditioned state through insight.The principles are revealed through the paradoxes of accumulated knowledge that act within the time bound brain.It very much compliments modular brain theory in contemporary neuroscience,in that modules,through habit and conditioning, come to impinge in territories that do not belong to them,causing damage to the function of the brain that is then externalised.
January 4, 2024
My first introduction to the great soul J Krishnamurti...
June 20, 2020
Challenging Reality
‘The Limits of Thought’ requires much attention, this book is a documentation of the investigation into Mind, Man, and Soul.
‘The Limits of Thought’ requires much attention, this book is a documentation of the investigation into Mind, Man, and Soul.
December 18, 2024
The discussion centers around the nature of thought and the way thought itself seeks to become free from... itself.
The quality of the questions that arise in these dialogues is of pristine clarity. They are like long and thin needles that are piercing through layers and layers of conditioning of the mind, layers of thought that have been accumulated over centuries:
How can one live in truth? How to enter truth?
How can truth be transmitted?
How can the capacity of perception be cultivated?
Can one desire truth?
Is there any part of consciousness, any little corner that is untouched by the mind?
Is there any energy that is not contradictory in itself?
Why would truth need to operate in the field of reality?
Why has humanity given so much importance to thought?
Can the human mind free itself in order to stop being a product of man?
What is the role of love and compassion in the overall structure of the cosmos?
Best read of the year.
The quality of the questions that arise in these dialogues is of pristine clarity. They are like long and thin needles that are piercing through layers and layers of conditioning of the mind, layers of thought that have been accumulated over centuries:
How can one live in truth? How to enter truth?
How can truth be transmitted?
How can the capacity of perception be cultivated?
Can one desire truth?
Is there any part of consciousness, any little corner that is untouched by the mind?
Is there any energy that is not contradictory in itself?
Why would truth need to operate in the field of reality?
Why has humanity given so much importance to thought?
Can the human mind free itself in order to stop being a product of man?
What is the role of love and compassion in the overall structure of the cosmos?
Best read of the year.
May 30, 2018
α - looking into Bohm.
Ω(=,∑) - Eavesdropping on many conversations between Krishnamurti & Bohm with no context or references. I wonder if listening to them would be better... youtube playlist - there are talks not included in the book.
Φ(?) - While it is interesting to see two people try to articulate ethereal ideas, I'm not sure if there is anything noteworthy here. Maybe I'm having problems relating to some of the examples given - esp. love. I've viewed love & hate as opposite faces on the coin of obsession. Also love has profound effects on reality - in fact without it, biological systems deform, & wither. I would need more cultural information on Krishnamurti to understand many of his points, but who has time for that?
Ω(=,∑) - Eavesdropping on many conversations between Krishnamurti & Bohm with no context or references. I wonder if listening to them would be better... youtube playlist - there are talks not included in the book.
Φ(?) - While it is interesting to see two people try to articulate ethereal ideas, I'm not sure if there is anything noteworthy here. Maybe I'm having problems relating to some of the examples given - esp. love. I've viewed love & hate as opposite faces on the coin of obsession. Also love has profound effects on reality - in fact without it, biological systems deform, & wither. I would need more cultural information on Krishnamurti to understand many of his points, but who has time for that?
February 10, 2025
I read this in train while travelling to office back and forth, J krishnamurthi tries to impart his wisdom on structure and limitation of thoughts. even though sometimes its hard to grasp the truth of the unknown, I personally had so many realization and insights. at some point of the book JK will ask whether love is opposite of hate and that had a deep reaction within me, I could suddenly understand dual nature of the mind. A great self enquiry book which should be Sipped like a fine wine, not to be downed like a shot.
December 17, 2024
Every pages require detailed reading. A great book to understand human cognition system. Humans are limited by sensory inputs that filters reality. It is interesting that it is still same as this book stated back in 1970s. Certain problems cannot be solved algorithmucally.
This book nudges you on pondering the reason of your entity. Do we actually have ownership of our thoughts?! How impactful is the tradition in our choice mechanism?
Highly recommed to read this book
xoxo Zeynep
This book nudges you on pondering the reason of your entity. Do we actually have ownership of our thoughts?! How impactful is the tradition in our choice mechanism?
Highly recommed to read this book
xoxo Zeynep
May 7, 2019
It felt like reading Plato's dialogues. If Socrates were an Indian living in the 20th century.
January 23, 2021
Most profound book
June 21, 2022
I ended up grabbing an audiobook of the talk/discussion and loved the slow paced mind opening ideas. Got a little too slow and confusing at times, but definitely worth a second listen to absorb it.
October 4, 2023
To say life has meaning is a distortion, to say it doesn't, is also a distortion.
April 20, 2024
Conversación de Jiddu Krishnamurti con David Bohm acerca de los límites del pensamiento.
March 31, 2017
Hay ocasiones en que un buen libro para ser bien comprendido, es necesario tener un previo conocimiento sobre otros temas. Este es el caso de este libro: "Los límites del pensamiento". Creo que es por eso que se siente difícil leer este libro. Y si es verdad. Hay que conectar las múltiples y profundas ideas que expone el libro con la obra de Krishnamurti y la obra del Dr. Bohm. Una dificultad adicional es que el libro está basado en una recopilación de diálogos que sostuvieron Krishnamurti y el Dr. Bohm. Son diálogos espontáneos, sin preparación previa, y en el que las ideas que se analizan se van elaborando de manera progresiva, circular, reiterativa, exploratoria.
De alguna manera el Dr. Bohm intuye sus ideas de la "totalidad y el orden implicado", mientras que Krishnamurti intuye sus ideas para liberar al hombre de las limitaciones de su mente. Dicen que la realidad es un proceso del pensamiento, lo cual distorsiona lo que percibimos, vemos un mundo fragmentado, nos limita en nuestro actuar. Por la forma en como percibimos, introducimos sin darnos cuenta una separación y no somos capaces de percibir la totalidad.
¿Cómo superar esta limitación? La propuesta es la percepción alerta, la anulación del pensamiento para no fragmentar la realidad (la nada de Krishnamurti), en definitiva el amor. La nada se refiere más bien a la anulación de la mecanicidad del pensamiento, detener los hábitos y condicionamientos, recomponer el daño cerebral por medio de un cambio en la atención, la actitud, la voluntad, la liberación del "yo".
A mi parecer los conceptos expuestos en "Los límites del Pensamiento" giran alrededor de la filosofía y el misticismo oriental, pero enriquecidas y contrastadas en un dialogo muy constructivo por la visión científica del Dr. Bohm (el orden implicado). Es un libro que es un poco difícil de leer, pero muy bueno. Está en la línea del objetivo que buscaba Krishnamurti: Ser mejores seres humanos en un mundo mejor.
De alguna manera el Dr. Bohm intuye sus ideas de la "totalidad y el orden implicado", mientras que Krishnamurti intuye sus ideas para liberar al hombre de las limitaciones de su mente. Dicen que la realidad es un proceso del pensamiento, lo cual distorsiona lo que percibimos, vemos un mundo fragmentado, nos limita en nuestro actuar. Por la forma en como percibimos, introducimos sin darnos cuenta una separación y no somos capaces de percibir la totalidad.
¿Cómo superar esta limitación? La propuesta es la percepción alerta, la anulación del pensamiento para no fragmentar la realidad (la nada de Krishnamurti), en definitiva el amor. La nada se refiere más bien a la anulación de la mecanicidad del pensamiento, detener los hábitos y condicionamientos, recomponer el daño cerebral por medio de un cambio en la atención, la actitud, la voluntad, la liberación del "yo".
A mi parecer los conceptos expuestos en "Los límites del Pensamiento" giran alrededor de la filosofía y el misticismo oriental, pero enriquecidas y contrastadas en un dialogo muy constructivo por la visión científica del Dr. Bohm (el orden implicado). Es un libro que es un poco difícil de leer, pero muy bueno. Está en la línea del objetivo que buscaba Krishnamurti: Ser mejores seres humanos en un mundo mejor.
June 18, 2019
Beautiful Friendship
What I admired about this book, besides the discussion itself, was the fact that these two friends were willing to listen to one another. In times of division and echo chambers, we must take note of listening to others, as long as they are willing of course to listen to us, with the common goal of bettering the world and our understanding of it, not simply to prove that we are right or wrong.
The book of course goes over the age old notions of if there are limits to what we can make sense of, and so on. An interesting read.
What I admired about this book, besides the discussion itself, was the fact that these two friends were willing to listen to one another. In times of division and echo chambers, we must take note of listening to others, as long as they are willing of course to listen to us, with the common goal of bettering the world and our understanding of it, not simply to prove that we are right or wrong.
The book of course goes over the age old notions of if there are limits to what we can make sense of, and so on. An interesting read.
June 18, 2009
I stuck it out and read it but I'm going to have to say that I did not understand most if not all of what I managed to read... it's amazing how you can read and nothing makes sense, I'm convinced I was reading in a foreign language.
August 14, 2009
It will take a lot to comprehend this book. I'm still learning...
Read
November 1, 2013I found it hard to read it , I didn't understand the most of it ! Some ideas seemed too obvious and others too complicated . I should read it twice to at least understand a little bit !
April 4, 2020
Brilliant!!!
Displaying 1 - 19 of 19 reviews