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Your Will Be Done: Exploring Eternal Subordination, Divine Monarchy and Divine Humility
The relationship between the Father and the Son in the Trinity has been hotly debated since the earliest centuries of the church. The Church Fathers like Tertullian, Athanasius and Hilary of Poiters wrestled with it; church councils at Nicaea, Syrmium and Chalcedon legislated about it in attempts to define orthodoxy and heresy. What did they and the Bible say, and why does it matter today? The contemporary implications are wider than you might realise, touching on matters as diverse as the ordination of women, male-female relations, the certainty of salvation and the nature of power, individualism and virtue. This thorough book persistently takes you back to first principles, logically pursuing the outcome of each thesis. If the Son is subordinate to the Father, in what sense can he be equal? If the Godhead is unchanging, how can it accommodate the Incarnation? How are the concepts of monarchy and love incorporated into the Trinity? In discussing these questions and more, Mike Ovey engages with both contemporary debators and with the great minds of the past. Be prepared to be challenged and enlightened! Rev'd Michael Ovey, PhD, MTh, MA, BCL, BA is Principal of Oak Hill Theological College, London, where he teaches Doctrine, Apologetics & Liturgy. Before coming to Oak Hill, Mike was a civil service lawyer; he trained at Ridley Hall, Cambridge, serving his title at All Saints, Crowborough, before teaching for three years at Moore Theological College, Sydney. He joined Oak Hill in 1998 and since then has finished a PhD in the field of Trinitarian theology.
164 pages, Paperback
Published April 18, 2016
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About the author
Michael J. Ovey
8 books2 followersMichael Ovey (1958-2017) was the Principal of Oak Hill Theological College in London and taught on Doctrine, Apologetics and Liturgy. He was married to Heather, with whom he had three children.
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Displaying 1 - 4 of 4 reviews
July 9, 2016
Dr. Michael J. Ovey presents a biblical case for the eternal (economic) subordination of the Son. His argument is grounded in biblical, systematic, and historical theology, especially in light of the current debate about the ERA (Eternal Relations of Authority and Submission).
“One is not superior to the other on account of the kind of His substance, but one is subject to the other because born of the other. The Father is greater because He is Father, the Son is not the less because He is Son. The difference is one of the meaning of a name and not of a nature.”
Highly recommended.
“One is not superior to the other on account of the kind of His substance, but one is subject to the other because born of the other. The Father is greater because He is Father, the Son is not the less because He is Son. The difference is one of the meaning of a name and not of a nature.”
Highly recommended.
October 17, 2024
A deep dive into a pretty niche topic. I think it is a must read if someone is thinking about EFS.
It is a real shame that Matthew Barret did not engage at all with this book in his book Simply Trinity, which seemed to me to be written to oppose EFS. I think Ovey, in just 100 pages, thoroughly refuted many of Barrett's arguments!
Ovey is a very very clear writer, making some pretty technical things really clear.
I most enjoyed the first 70 pages - the historical theology section.
There are some who say that there is no historical precedent for the Son's eternal submission / subordination. They say it is a completely novel (and wrong) idea. I think the historical theology section of Ovey's book thoroughly refutes that. Whether it is right or not, it is not novel. Especially helpful to see it in Athanasius and Hilary. The section on the Cappadocians and Augustine was very very interesting as well.
The next section is Ovey's exegesis, focussing on John's gospel.
While I agree with Ovey on EFS in the broad picture, I would frame my understanding differently to the way he expresses it. So at points I found myself disagreeing with the way he articulated pieces of exegesis and theology in this section. (For example, I am reluctant to talk of 'distinguishable wills' - I think there are other ways of coming at that [p86]).
However, the overall framing of his exegesis here was profoundly helpful. I was surprised to find it so fresh, given how often these passages have been examined. And a freshness because of a return to the ancient, original concerns - not some new direction!
Ovey highlights an often overlooked concern in John: to show how the Son's divinity does not create polytheism. In a particularly insightful move, Ovey contrasts the way opponents of EFS today would answer that question with the way John himself answers it. John's repeated answer, as Ovey shows, is the asymmetry of the Father/Son relationship, so that the Son is no rival second God, but rather the one who is at every point sent and given, and thus all the Son does is because the Father wills it, thereby the divine monarchy is upheld. The Johannine answer to the charge of polytheism is the Son's perfect dependence on, and so submission to, the Father. Ovey shows the insufficiency of other readings. His conclusion is profound: to eliminate EFS in a desire to preserve the unity of God, would be to eliminate the very argument that John, following Jesus, himself uses to uphold that same unity!
The final section is Ovey's theological reflections. I found this the hardest to enjoy.
The section on Gethsemane was provocative, and I am not sure what I make of it! The questions he asks are very searching! However, the answers he gave did not resolve the issues for me. I'll need to keep thinking about that.
His applications into contemporary issues were good, and helpful, but I think didn't rise to the greatness of the first sections of the books.
It is a real shame that Matthew Barret did not engage at all with this book in his book Simply Trinity, which seemed to me to be written to oppose EFS. I think Ovey, in just 100 pages, thoroughly refuted many of Barrett's arguments!
Ovey is a very very clear writer, making some pretty technical things really clear.
I most enjoyed the first 70 pages - the historical theology section.
There are some who say that there is no historical precedent for the Son's eternal submission / subordination. They say it is a completely novel (and wrong) idea. I think the historical theology section of Ovey's book thoroughly refutes that. Whether it is right or not, it is not novel. Especially helpful to see it in Athanasius and Hilary. The section on the Cappadocians and Augustine was very very interesting as well.
The next section is Ovey's exegesis, focussing on John's gospel.
While I agree with Ovey on EFS in the broad picture, I would frame my understanding differently to the way he expresses it. So at points I found myself disagreeing with the way he articulated pieces of exegesis and theology in this section. (For example, I am reluctant to talk of 'distinguishable wills' - I think there are other ways of coming at that [p86]).
However, the overall framing of his exegesis here was profoundly helpful. I was surprised to find it so fresh, given how often these passages have been examined. And a freshness because of a return to the ancient, original concerns - not some new direction!
Ovey highlights an often overlooked concern in John: to show how the Son's divinity does not create polytheism. In a particularly insightful move, Ovey contrasts the way opponents of EFS today would answer that question with the way John himself answers it. John's repeated answer, as Ovey shows, is the asymmetry of the Father/Son relationship, so that the Son is no rival second God, but rather the one who is at every point sent and given, and thus all the Son does is because the Father wills it, thereby the divine monarchy is upheld. The Johannine answer to the charge of polytheism is the Son's perfect dependence on, and so submission to, the Father. Ovey shows the insufficiency of other readings. His conclusion is profound: to eliminate EFS in a desire to preserve the unity of God, would be to eliminate the very argument that John, following Jesus, himself uses to uphold that same unity!
The final section is Ovey's theological reflections. I found this the hardest to enjoy.
The section on Gethsemane was provocative, and I am not sure what I make of it! The questions he asks are very searching! However, the answers he gave did not resolve the issues for me. I'll need to keep thinking about that.
His applications into contemporary issues were good, and helpful, but I think didn't rise to the greatness of the first sections of the books.
October 25, 2017
The Eternal Subordination debate created a lot of heat recently and I feel very much that I have only heard one side of this debate. Over represents the view I have always assumed, and I would certainly like to supplement this hook by hearing a good defence from the other side.
However, this book is a fantastic summary of the arguments for Eternal Subordination. It seems to me that Ovey's chief point is that our nervousness about eternal subordination are related to our concerns over power. We cannot conceive of a ruler who is not a despot and a servant who is not weak. This handles some of the big issues very well and is well worth a read.
However, this book is a fantastic summary of the arguments for Eternal Subordination. It seems to me that Ovey's chief point is that our nervousness about eternal subordination are related to our concerns over power. We cannot conceive of a ruler who is not a despot and a servant who is not weak. This handles some of the big issues very well and is well worth a read.
December 4, 2019
Lacking
Displaying 1 - 4 of 4 reviews