Talking Music: Conversations With John Cage, Philip Glass, Laurie Anderson, And 5 Generations Of American Experimental Composers

by William Duckworth

Talking Music is comprised of substantial original conversations with seventeen American experimental composers and musicians—including Milton Babbitt, Pauline Oliveros, Steve Reich, Meredith Monk, and John Zorn—many of whom rarely grant interviews.The author skillfully elicits candid dialogues that encompass technical explorations; questions of method, style, and influence; their personal lives and struggles to create; and their aesthetic goals and artistic declarations. Herein, John Cage recalls the turning point in his career; Ben Johnston criticizes the operas of his teacher Harry Partch; La Monte Young attributes his creative discipline to a Morman childhood; and much more. The results are revelatory conversations with some of America's most radical musical innovators.

Genres: Music, Nonfiction, Art

504 pages, Paperback

First published January 1, 1995

Reviews

[Jeff Jackson · Rating 4 out of 5]

I read this ages ago and enjoyed it, even though a number of the composers were unfamiliar to me. Duckworth makes what could be forbidding music seem approachable and draws interesting observations from his subjects. I recall the interview with John Zorn being a particular revelation. Time to revisit this now that I'm conversant with most of the music.

[Philippe · Rating 4 out of 5]

This is a very entertaining collection of interviews. Duckworth takes his time to explore the issues sufficiently deeply with his interlocutors. Hence, there is substance to the book: it certainly is more than a loose collection of freewheeling conversations. And I am grateful for the fact that Bill Duckworth expanded his survey beyond the obvious collection of Minimalists and Cage. I knew nothing about Pauline Oliveros, Glen Branca or La Monte Young and came away refreshed from reading all their stories. I was generally satisfied by the way Duckworth steers the interviews. The tone is relaxed, sometimes earnest, sometimes tongue-in-cheeck. He is at his very best in the long, sometimes rambling conversations with La Monte Young and John Zorn. But in other cases - such as with the more rigorous and perhaps intellectually more intimidating personality of Steve Reich - Duckworth rigidly sticks to his agenda and fails to capture a number of potentially interesting tangents. The interview with John Cage is outright funny in the way Duckworth fails to catch on with what Cage really tries to get across. He keeps asking the wrong questions whilst Cage, with dwindling patience, is making broad excursions in conceptual hyperspace. But if Duckworth fails to capture a number of interesting opportunities to dig deeper in some of the interviews, this remains a very valuable collection, at least for those new to the whole field of American experimental music.

[Natalie]

Very enlightening to read these famous composers describe their lives and how they perceive their work. A lot of the stories were inspriring, but I was also amazed at the level of egoism that some of these composers have, especially La Monte Young. A long, but very informative read.

[Diana · Rating 4 out of 5]

Talking Music: Conversations with John Cage, Philip Glass, Laurie Anderson, & Five Generations of American Experimental Composers [1995] – ★★★★

A “must-read” for any music fan interested in the nature of music, its experimental forms and its boundaries.

Experimental music is defined as “any music that pushes existing boundaries and genre definitions“. Though the term originated in the 1950s, the US of the 1960s saw certain music artists emerging that can be said to be loosely associated with the “experimental music” movement. This book by American composer and educator William Duckworth compiles the author’s interviews with experimental composers and performers from the US, including John Cage, Philip Glass, Lou Harrison, Conlon Nancarrow, Meredith Monk and Laurie Anderson. The interviews shed light on the artists’ backgrounds, major works and inspirations, and many of the interviews are frank, interesting and inspirational.

The book is divided into five sections: (i) Experimentalists; (ii) The Avant-Garde (Ben Johnston, Pauling Oliveros and Christian Wolff); (iii) Minimalists; (iv) Performance Artists (Meredith Monk and Laurie Anderson); and (v) Post-Moderns (Glenn Branca, Gene Tyranny and John Zorn). As I am interested in the piano, I focused on experimental and minimalist composers, most of whom experimented with early electronic music, prepared pianos and the twelve-tone composition.

American composer John Cage (1912 – 1992) always experimented with unusual sounds, and was later heavily influenced by Eastern philosophy, trying to remove his ego from his compositions in order to produce “true” music [Duckworth, 1995: 4]. Duckworth writes: “…Cage, in essence, invented a new philosophy of music – one in which individual sounds, chosen by chance, are valued in themselves rather than for their connections to other sounds, and where silence is considered musical, as is noise” [ibid].

“I was always…interested in the variety and nature of musical activity outside my own tastes and inclinations” (John Cage)

What is music? Who has to decide? It so happens that absurdism may be found not only in fiction, plays and poetry, but also in music. In 1952, John Cage composed a musical piece titled 4’33. During this piece, an orchestra is required to produce – nothing, being absolutely silent for the entire composition. John Cage wanted to draw attention to the sounds we miss in our daily life. 4’33 opens you up to any possibility as nothing is taken as a basis, explains Cage in this book, while also stating that most people do not understand it. The irony, of course, is that, as every musician knows, silences are an essential part of music. All the rests signs in a musical sheet are an integral part of music, so the paradox here is that the absence of music can also be considered music.

“The way I have chosen to compose is by means of asking questions rather than making choices, and to use chance operations to determine the answers” (John Cage)

American composer Steve Reich (1936-) is considered one of the lead contributors in the development of minimal music in the 1960s. If many experimental composers drew inspiration from Eastern philosophies (India and Zen) to compose their music, Reich became fascinated by the “rhythmic subtleties” of African music. This, together with his Bach schooling and the love for jazz, formed the foundation of his musical style. Some of his better-known compositions are It’s Gonna Rain [1965] and Come Out [1966], and it was interested to learn from his interview that he was actually friends with another experimental composer Terry Riley and advised him on his monumental composition In C [1964].

Duckworth’s interview with Philip Glass (1937-) (see my posts Philip Glass: Mad Rush and Philip Glass: The Hours) was also insightful, and Glass talked much about his childhood, musical education, early inspirations, first compositions and, later on, about this creative process. For example, I never previously realised that he studied under no other than Nadia Boulanger!, a celebrated French music teacher. His insights into her piano and musical composition trainings are very eye-opening. For example, Glass talks how Boulanger emphasised instilling in her students “independence of hearing”, whereby a student developed a great ability to hear one voice independently, being able to play one voice independently of another. Of course, studying Bach gets you there in the shortest period of time. Glass was fortunate in his early work reception since he worked for a theatre company in Paris, and “theatre is a haven for progressive music” (no music critics go there, for one thing).

“…The things I learnt from Ravi [Shankar] is that the rhythmic structure could become an overall musical structure…[in Indian music] the tension is between the melody and rhythm, not between the melody and the harmony…” (Philip Glass)

🥁 One may skip some sections of this book depending on one’s music interests, but, overall, Talking Music is a wonderful book that expands horizons and introduces one to some composers and performers that have now fallen off the radar.

[Geoff Young · Rating 5 out of 5]

Fascinating, inspirational. Need to reread while listening to the works of the composers interviewed and the works of their predecessors, contemporaries, etc.

[James R · Rating 5 out of 5]

Great book, William Duckworth possesses a unique talent for asking the right questions, teasing out composers' insights into their own work and creative process, as well insight into culture, music, and composition in general.

[Gina · Rating 5 out of 5]

Because the music isn't weird enough, here's Cage, Glass and Anderson (et al) discussing the music, weirdly.

[HeatherNicole · Rating 5 out of 5]

the interview format is pretty much my favorite.