Los gitanos (Ariel)

The Peoples of Europe

by Angus Fraser

El libro se inicia con una investigación de los orígenes de los gitanos en India. El autor sigue la pista de la migración gitana desde principios de la Edad Media hasta el presente, a través de Oriente Medio, Europa, y el mundo. Durante toda su historia conocida han sido famosos por su música, trabajo del metal, adivinación

Genres: History, Nonfiction, Anthropology, Linguistics, Sociology, European History, India

344 pages, Paperback

First published October 1, 1992

Reviews

[David · Rating 3 out of 5]

I read this book because it was highly recommended in the bibliography of Bury Me Standing by Isabel Fonseca. Fraser's book is a good, serious, scholarly book for someone who wants to know more about the Roma, who are mostly called “Gypsies” in this book, which was published in 1990 in England. However, this not as gripping or dramatic as the Fonseca book, and of course not up-to-date.

I imagine the ideal reader for this book as a university undergraduate who wants to write something about the Roma for a class because he/she finds them interesting, but who really doesn't know much about them. (Add a star if you fit this description.) The book starts on a very, very basic level: literally, with the dictionary definition of “gypsy”. It then expands to include how the legal definition of this word in England has evolved in case law over many decades. The author writes clearly about the linguistic evidence that links Roma with an origin in India, and then their appearances (as a group) in the records of the civilizations that they had contact with as they moved eastward into Europe over hundreds of years: Persian, Armenian, Byzantine, and so on. (There is, unfortunately, no written Roma record with which to contrast these impressions.) The narrative follows them into Europe, where their initially friendly reception changed.

Toward the end of the book, there is a concise and easy-to-read summary of Roma sufferings under the Nazis, which similarly would be a good starting point for someone wishing to look into these things.

The author is sympathetic to Roma but also does not ignore the accusations of thievery which have followed them for hundreds of years.

If you are a Westerner reading this book (or any book about this topic) in a country where Gypsies are a sizable minority, I recommend hiding the book in the dust jacket of a different book, as a native who sees you reading this book may assume that you are a naïve and sentimental foreigner who knows nothing and needs a good talking to, which is only fun the first or second time it happens.

[Nei · Rating 5 out of 5]

5* pentru ca se vede cat de muncit a fost procesul de documentare al acestei carti, iar sursele de inspiratie nu sunt raspandite.

Cea mai mare minoritate din Europa, tiganii se trag din India, dintr-una din cele mai jos clasate caste care a avut un trecut tumultos, haituiti fiind si izgoniti din loc in loc fara mila. Cei mai multi s-au oprit pe meleagurile Romaniei, Mihai Kogalniceanu documentand supliciile la care acestia erau supusi in secolul al XIX lea, acestia fiind tinuti in "lanturi la maini si la picioare, cu cercuri de fier in jurul fruntii sau cu zgarda metalica la gat" . El este cel care va organiza campania pentru dezrobirea tiganilor. Fenomenalul istoric Neagu Djuvara incearca sa sensibilizeze societatea romaneasca prin cartile sale, indemnand la compasiune si intelegere a apucaturilor si caracterului pe care il consideram aparte si deranjant pana la extrem. Cand reusim sa ne punam in locul lor, vom intelege trauna transgenerationala care ii afecteaza si poate ii vom privi total diferit.

Tocmai aceste abuzuri care sunt documentate in aceasta carte ca derulandu-se pe intreg continentul european au contribuit enorm si la dezvoltarea simtului practic si de eschivare in fata legilor menite sa ii alunge. Stiam ca muzica tiganeasca este foarte apreciata peste tot, dar important de remarcat este ca Liszt a compus Rapsodiile Ungare inspirandu-se din muzica tiganilor unguri, acesta sprijinind chiar un tigan talentat sa studieze la conservator.

Cutremurator este faptul ca holocaustul i-a vizat si pe ei, cu cifre ale victimelor intre jumatate si un milion de vieti curmate. Insa, surprinzator, niciun film de succes si foarte cunoscut nu s-a realizat pe aceasta tematica - oare de ce ne sensibilizeaza mult mai putin comparativ cu cele intamplate evreilor?

[Lauren Albert · Rating 5 out of 5]

This is an excellent history which draws an immensely complex picture of the peoples previously known as Gypsies. It’s hard to know what to call them since according to Fraser’s history, they are very diverse ethnically and linguistically. He says their languages have become different enough to perhaps not qualify as dialects of each other now.
It was horrifying to learn that the nazis persecution of them was only an extreme and focused version of centuries of abuse.

[Hytham · Rating 4 out of 5]

الآن علمت تاريخهم الحافل بالإثارة والتميز والصمود ، يرسم المؤلف صورة للغجر فيشبههم بلوحة جمالية وقد أثروا وتأثروا بالثقافات المحيطة من حولهم ،ويتناول ظهور الغجر الغامض في أوربا من تسعة قرون مضت ، حيث رفض الغجر طوال هذه المدة الانخراط في حياة المجتمعات التي يعيشون فيها ،وظلوا قوما ذوي عادات تحوم حولها الشبهات ، برع الغجر طوال تاريخهم في الموسيقى والأعمال المعدنية وتدريب الثعابين وقراءتهم للطالع والعلاج ، وبالرغم من كل العقبات والمطاردات التي تعرضوا لها فقد استطاعوا الاستمرار في الحياة والحفاظ على تراثهم
، يتناول المؤلف عمليات النصب الكبرى والخداع التي قام بها الغجر عبر التاريخ وخاصة سنة 1417 ، كما يتناول الكتاب رياح التغيير التي ساهمت في استقرار الغجر وتقبل المجتمعات لهم في العقود الماضية

[Paul Ispas · Rating 5 out of 5]

Uimitoare lucrarea lui Fraser. Scăldată puternic în surse istorice credibile, precum și documente atestate, ultimele 600 de ani ale țiganilor în Europa este realist portretizată de Fraser care renunță la elementele tipice de speculație, rasism sau fantezie ale altor istorici (uneori de bună credință). Pentru perioada de dinaintea venirii țiganilor în Europa, Fraser face referire la mai multe legende și povești greu de atestat, dar pe care le susține cu elemente lingvistice sau izvoare conexe.
Una-peste-alta, o lucrare frumoasă, dificil de lecturat adesea, și cu o nuanță de incomplet. Dar, presupun că această nuanță se aplică tuturor cercetărilor istorice care respectă metodele științifice.

[Rama Rao · Rating 4 out of 5]

The Romani People; from a historical perspective

This is the story of gypsies, who arrived in the Balkans in medieval times and gradually spread over the Europe and Americas. For centuries these nomadic people have migrated aimlessly, but practiced their culture and maintained a distinct identity. They are traditionally known for music, metal-working, fortune-telling and horse-dealing. This book traces their origin to India and their trail out of the Indian regions of Rajasthan, Haryana, Punjab and Sindh provinces of modern India. The Romani history shed light on their racial, ethnic and linguistic features and the uniqueness of their language that has grammatical characteristics of Indian languages. It shares the basic lexicon with Hindi and Punjabi, phonetic features with Marwari, and grammar with Bengali language.

Recent genetic study of 800,000 genetic variants (single nucleotides polymorphisms) from 13 different Romani groups are compared with the DNA from diverse group of Indian population. This study clearly suggests that ancestors of Romani people departed from northwestern India around 500 CE. From there, they traveled to Central Asia, the Middle East and subsequently to Europe, specifically to the Balkan region of Bulgaria. Romani migration continued around 1,100 CE into the heart of Western Europe.

Originally Romani ancestors came from Rajasthan province of India and moved to Punjab and Sindh areas around 250 BC. Their subsequent westward migration, possibly in waves, is now believed to have occurred beginning in about AD 500. Some scholars suggest that the exodus of ancestors of Romani to Europe occurred due to invasion of Islam into the Indian sub-continent. The ancestors of modern-day Romani people were Hindu, but in Europe, they adopted Christianity or Islam depending on their local traditions. Romani social behavior is partly regulated by Hindu purity laws. Some of their practices run parallel to the practices of "Shaktism," which gives prominence to a woman or female deity. For example, some Romani people worship Christian God, often prayers are conducted through the Virgin Mary, a practice unique to Romani people.

History documents the atrocities committed on Romany populations. They were expelled from parts of Germany in 1416, Milan in 1493, France in 1504, Sweden in 1525, and England in 1530. During WWII, the Nazis embarked on a systematic genocide of the Romani population. They were often killed on sight, especially by paramilitary death squads. It is estimated that between 220,000 and 1,500,000 may have been killed. In the summer of 2010, French authorities demolished at least 51 Roma camps and began the process of repatriating their residents to other European countries. Romani people are continued to be victimized and politicians and the media largely ignore these problems and focus on politically correct issues.

This book was first published in 1992, although somewhat outdated and does not contain the recent genetic studies that positively links the Romani (gypsy) people to India, but the linguistic evidence discussed in this book gave credence to their Indian origin. The book is a scholarly work of one of the experts in this field. This is a fascinating account of Romany migrations into Persia, the Byzantine Empire and Balkan nations; and latter into Europe, and the Americas. This work is recommended to readers interested in the ancient history of gypsy people and their distinctive culture.

[Liviu Mihai Irimia · Rating 4 out of 5]

An academic-level writing, based on solid bibliographic sources and covering the entire history of the gypsies, from their appearance as a distinct ethnic group, to the present day. It is not an easy reading, on the contrary, it requires concentration to understand notions specific to linguistic and ethnographic studies, which gives it the appearance of a scientific paper, valuable for documenting those who study the history of gypsies. The clear structure of the book is admirable and also the review of the chronological evolution of the gypsy people, in all the geographical regions it crossed and the countries in which it settled. You learn that gypsies are a secular presence throughout Europe from Ireland to Russia, that the peoples of Europe have had the same difficulties in integrating and educating them, that every opportunity for migration in the political context is used by gypsies to the full by virtue of their ancestral custom to walk with the tent. You also learn about the extermination policies they were subjected to in older and newer times, about their use as slaves, about the lack of trust on the part of every people they came in contact with. An abundance of information that reveals to the reader the diversity of the gypsy people, their malleability in the sense of evading the rules imposed by the peoples of Europe, the stubbornness to obey exclusively their own rules, but also the characteristics that is possible to keep them also in the same socioeconomic situation. An admirable book that is well worth the effort to be read.

[R.K. Cowles · Rating 3 out of 5]

3 1/2 stars

[Liz Wager · Rating 4 out of 5]

I found this fascinating -- I'm trying to trace a rumour that my paternal grandmother had gypsy blood, and this book renewed my resolve. I liked the way the author tackles uncertainties and doesn't try to ram his own theories down your throat but presents all the options. Scholarly but very readable.

[Doina · Rating 3 out of 5]

Foarte superficial tratat capitolul despre Holocaust. In ultima treime stilul isi pirerde farmecul, devine tehnic si sec, iar lectura ultimei parti e posibila cu chinuri din partea cititorului. Primele capitole sunt, insa, fascinante

[Benjamin Fasching-Gray · Rating 5 out of 5]

that rare find -- a no bullshit book about the romanies. this is a history book.

[Shooperdidooper · Rating 3 out of 5]

Didn't finish it. Prgressively became less interesting

[Mircea Poeana · Rating 5 out of 5]

Un studiu extrem de bine documentat si obiectiv. O lucrare obligatorie pentru cei interesati a afla de unde au venit si incotro se indreapta tiganii.

[Socrate · Rating 3 out of 5]

Aceasta este povestea unui popor rătăcitor, care în Evul Mediu ajunge în Balcani şi apoi, treptat, se răspândeşte peste întregul continent european şi dincolo de acesta. Bătând la porţile Europei de Vest în straie de pelerini, ţiganii au stârnit o puternică curiozitate, după care au început să circule tot felul de teorii în legătură cu originea lor. Stabilirea prin deducţie lingvistică a locului de unde a început diaspora va fi posibilă mult mai târziu. În ciuda expunerii constante la multe influenţe şi presiuni, ţiganii au reuşit în decursul veacurilor să-şi păstreze o identitate distinctă şi să dea dovadă de o remarcabilă putere de adaptare şi de supravieţuire, într-adevăr, dacă luăm în considerare vicisitudinile de care s-au lovit ― faptele relatate aici reprezentând o istorie a ceea ce alţii au întreprins pentru a le distruge individualitatea ―, va trebui să conchidem că principala realizare a ţiganilor este chiar faptul că au reuşit să supravieţuiască ca atare.

Întrucât s-ar putea ca afirmaţia conform căreia ţiganii sunt „un popor european” să nu fie un adevăr general acceptat, ar fi mai bine să începem prin a lua în discuţie motivele care au stat la baza includerii lor în colecţia „Popoarele Europei”[1].

Dacă un popor este reprezentat de un grup de bărbaţi, de femei şi de copii având o limbă şi o cultură comună şi aparţinând aceluiaşi tip rasial, grup ce poate fi cu uşurinţă deosebit de cel al vecinilor, atunci ţiganii au încetat de multă vreme să mai reprezinte aşa ceva. În decursul veacurilor s-a produs o uimitoare diversificare a lor. La fel s-a întâmplat şi cu sensurile date termenului de „ţigan” ― o problemă de ordin semantic pe care nu ei au creat-o. Acest cuvânt este denumirea (sau mai degrabă una din cele multe) dată lor de către cei din afara etniei.

În secolul XX confuzia în terminologie devine deosebit de acută. La un moment dat cuvântul „ţigan” dobândeşte o conotaţie eminamente rasială. Definiţia iniţială dată de The Oxford English Dictionary (ediţia a 2-a, 1989) este:



ţigan… Membru al unei rase nomade (ei înşişi numindu-se romi), de origine hindusă, care a apărut pentru prima data în Anglia în secolul al XVI-lea şi despre care s-a crezut că provine din Egipt,

Aceştia au pielea de culoare roşcat-închis şi părul negru. Îşi câştigă existenţa din confecţionarea de coşuri, din geambaşie, din ghicit etc. Şi de obicei trezesc suspiciune datorită vieţii nomade şi obiceiurilor lor. Limba lor (zisă romani) este un dialect hindus, foarte stâlcit, cu un număr mare de cuvinte provenind din diferite limbi europene.

[Eitental · Rating 5 out of 5]

Although the title had me dubious about this work’s academic merit (the terms “Roma” or “Romani” usually preferred to “Gypsy” by serious academics, in my experience), my doubts were quickly assuaged upon starting the book. Within a few pages it was apparent that this is certainly an academically thorough, well-researched and serious scholarly work, in which the author demonstrates a deep understanding of linguistics, history the social sciences as well as dabbling in such fields as musicology and folkloristics. Fraser defends his use of the word “Gypsy” as an overarching term that encompasses groups identifying variously as Roma, Sinti, Manouches, Dom and Lom.

This work is clearly intended as a comprehensive overview and, unlike in most academic monographs, the author doesn’t push any particular theories or interpretations. This is especially relevant to the opening chapters about the origins and early migrations of the Roma, where Fraser makes no secret of the uncertainty of the matter and presents a range of different theories, offering only hesitatingly his own appraisal of their respective likelihoods. This means that instead of a straightforward narrative history being provided, the (sometimes very limited) evidence is presented and sensible deductions are proffered, but readers are left to make their own ultimate conclusions.

I can imagine that a casual reader might find it too heavy going at times, as Fraser often goes into great detail – for example describing numerous, quite similar, records of dealings with “Egyptians” throughout fifteenth- and sixteenth-century Europe and explaining how linguistic analysis gives clues about their earliest migrations – but I for one found it riveting reading. It really felt as though I was going along with Fraser, taking part in the investigation, piecing together the evidence to create a picture of Romani history. I found the writing style clear and engaging – certainly not at all dry – though Fraser’s erudite vocabulary did have me reaching for a dictionary a couple of times. The text is broken up with lots of relevant paintings and photographs, though as they are printed in low-quality monochrome, they aren’t exactly beautiful and details aren’t really visible. The maps provided are fairly useful though.

The book’s most obvious shortcomings are, I think, due not to any failing of the author, but rather due to a lack of information. As such, questions about religious beliefs and practices upon departure from India, and the timing of conversion to Christianity and Islam, are unaddressed. Similarly, up until the eighteenth century Fraser makes few attempts to even guestimate population sizes. These kinds of uncertainties are somewhat frustrating, but cannot be blamed on Fraser.

However, one shortcoming for which Fraser could be criticized is the issue of the Dom and Lom. As I understand, there is much academic debate about the relation of these groups to the Roma. Fraser claims that the ancestors of the European Roma probably split off from the Dom and Lom while in Persia or Armenia, but does not directly address the theory that the ancestors of the Roma and those of the Dom and Lom might have left the Subcontinent at different times. Furthermore, while apparently including Dom and Lom in his understanding of the term “Gypsy”, Fraser more or less forgets about them after the first chapter. This absence of the Dom and Lom from most of the book brings me on to a second criticism: that of geographical scope. There seems to be slight undue weight given to Britain – a bias presumably due to the author’s own nationality – England and Scotland receiving nearly as much attention as the Balkans and Central Europe, where the Roma population is most concentrated. The Low Countries, France, Iberia and Scandinavia are all given due coverage, but the Roma of the Russian Empire/the USSR are given surprisingly little attention and those of Asia Minor and the Americas are scarcely mentioned at all. Of course it would be impossible for this work to cover all corners of the Earth in detail. I can only assume that Fraser decided to focus on Europe as the book was published as part of the “Peoples of Europe” series. In any case, this is far from a major problem.

The only serious criticism that I have is the fact that Fraser tends to treat the Roma only as objects of history, never as actors. The predominant focus of the work is the treatment of Roma by non-Roma and, above all, by states. Although it is clear that for much of their history Roma were overwhelmingly illiterate, and thus left behind no insight into their own perspectives, the nineteenth and twentieth centuries did see the formation of Roma intelligentsias and Roma cultural organizations, of which Fraser makes but passing mention until the very end of the book, where a scant four pages are given to explaining that a pan-Roma movement has developed and to listing some of the issues they have turned to. Similarly, the book does not make a single mention of any kind of Roma activist, politician, community leader or public intellectual. Furthermore, for most of the book Fraser laments a lack of sources revealing anything of Roma lives and social organization, then when he reaches the modern day he makes surprisingly little use of the sources that I can only assume are available (I find it hard to believe that there are not plenty of first-hand accounts, interviews and anthropological studies). A couple of accounts of the lives of two Sinti individuals towards the end of the book really helped me to picture the reality of their lives and I feel that The Gypsies would definitely have benefitted from more such Alltagsgeschichte integrated throughout, rather than just added as a kind of afterthought. This criticism is a serious one, but thankfully only really affects the last part of the book, because, as mentioned, up until the nineteenth century there is very limited scope to view history from the Roma perspective.

If you know nothing whatsoever about the Roma and want a general introduction to them – especially if you aren’t used to reading academic literature – this might not be the book for you. If, like me, you have a general interest in the Roma, have read most of the relevant information on Wikipedia and were left unsatisfied, this is perfect. It could also be very useful for writing an undergraduate-level essay. Though it is probably too general to be of much use as a source for more advanced academic work, it would certainly provide a good overview and you could make good use of its extensive bibliography (sources are cited on almost every page). Although the section dealing with the twentieth century is a little bit weak, the vast majority of the book could scarcely be better.

[Elizabeth Hausler · Rating 3 out of 5]

There were no written records kept by the Gypsies, so the author explored their origins and migrations through historical linguistics and texts written about them.
From the time they migrated to Europe, over 900 years ago, they faced bigotry due to their peripatetic culture, language, and appearance. Laws were repeatedly passed throughout Europe to try and force them to give up that culture, take away their children, banish them, and put them into forced labor. During the Nazi regime 300,000 to 500,00 were exterminated along with the Jews.
The Gypsies used various stratagems to survive and adapt in a world hostile to their way of life. They adapted to the dominant culture, but even as they became more sedentary they didn’t necessarily assimilate.
They were known for their skill at metalworking, horse-dealing, peddling, and fortune telling. They were admired for their skill as musicians and were even featured in events of the nobility. They had an influence on Spanish music, such as flamenco, and on composers like Liszt.
Being a language nerd, what I liked about the author’s approach was his use of historical linguistics to discover their past. This is also a culture I knew nothing about, so from that perspective, it was interesting. I actually give this book 3 1/2 stars.

[Ovidiu Lazar · Rating 4 out of 5]

A must read for anyone looking to know more about this ethnicity that still remains unknown to most Europeans even though we've lived alongside them for hundreds and hundreds of years.

It helps paint better picture of why the gypsies are who they are, and why they chose to live and preserve in many cases a nomadic lifestyle.

[Philip · Rating 3 out of 5]

This text makes a fine effort at trying to determine the origins of the Roma people. Further, the reader finds out how this minority was treated as they first entered Europe and about how the quality of their treatment declined dramatically throughout the Middle Ages and Modern Era.

[Nikolas Larum · Rating 4 out of 5]

This is an excellent general history on the experience of the Gypsies since their entry into Europe centuries ago. If you are curious about "real" Gypsies, this book is a must read. One of the testaments to its scholarship and authority is the numerous time other authors of Roma studies cite it.

[Alina · Rating 3 out of 5]

O carte foarte interesanta pentru cunoscătorii subiectului. Pentru mine a fost puțin cam multa lingvistica, ceea ce a făcut-o cam greu de urmărit.

[Rob · Rating 3 out of 5]

Outstanding survey of the history of, and atrocities committed against, the Romani people. As an American, I knew little about this culture but became interested after hearing several Europeans speak of “the gypsies” in some of the most unkind, shocking and racist terms I have ever heard leveled against fellow humans.

The amount of hatred, violence and cruelty leveled against this culture throughout Europe over the centuries is surpassed only by the Romani people’s impressive tenacity, obvious love of independence and family, and incredible resilience in the face of near-constant oppression and systemic hatred.

[Jenna · Rating 3 out of 5]

Bought it for $1 and so far it's worth it. Historic images and a moving history–no pun intended.

[Andreea · Rating 3 out of 5]

too historical I guess, though it has interesting bits on culture and tradition

[Cicely · Rating 5 out of 5]

This book is a fascinating story about the history gypsies, from their start in India, and gypsy dispora from Europe to the United States in present time.

[Lisa]

very good

[Silviu Reuț · Rating 3 out of 5]

https://silviureut.ro/2020/05/17/tiga...