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Greater Magadha: Studies in the Culture of Early India
Through a detailed analysis of the available cultural and chronological data, this book overturns traditional ideas about the cultural history of India and proposes a different picture instead. The idea of a unilinear development out of Brahmanism, in particular, is challenged.
436 pages, Hardcover
First published January 1, 2007
About the author
Johannes Bronkhorst
35 books16 followersJohannes Bronkhorst is a Dutch Orientalist and Indologist, specializing in Buddhist studies and early Buddhism. He is emeritus professor at the University of Lausanne.
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Displaying 1 - 11 of 11 reviews
July 17, 2021
a Fascinating topic touched by Johannes Bronkhorst but eventually it feels to be inadequately argued.
The core of the hypothesis is that the geographical region of Mahajanapada Magadha was home to a culture - precursor of Sramana traditions which was distinct from orthodox Vedic Brahmanism. The core argument seems to be conveyed convincingly enough but even the author tries to bolster his speculations he turns into specious and selective readings of ancient texts.
While correctly critiquing circular reasoning in traditional dating of Vedic Upanisads and early Sramana tests, the author himself indulges in circular reasoning. All this is done to prove that the idea of Karmic retribution came into Brahmanism from Sramana schools. Personally I did not find this a preposterous hypothesis, but the reasoning and arguments in the book in support of it are very tenuous.
Especially that the argument that medical origin of Ayurveda is from the region of Greater Magadha is very poorly argued. Rather some of the arguments presented can be refuted by non scholars - especially as they are based on interpolation of a line or two from Megasthenes and other texts.
The book was written in 2007 , but it can be seen in light of recent genetic findings. Genetics is not touched in the book.
The arguments of linguistics - for apparent distance between Vedic and Classical Sanskrit and Pali - or in general Early and Middle Indo Aryan languages are not expanded.
Some claims - like Carvaka as a Brahmanical response to Sramana concept of Karmic retribution is interesting enough as personally I found it well argued.
In overall - a fascinating topic but maybe this topic needs more interdisciplinary work of linguistics, archeology, genetics and liturgical studies can intersect.
The core of the hypothesis is that the geographical region of Mahajanapada Magadha was home to a culture - precursor of Sramana traditions which was distinct from orthodox Vedic Brahmanism. The core argument seems to be conveyed convincingly enough but even the author tries to bolster his speculations he turns into specious and selective readings of ancient texts.
While correctly critiquing circular reasoning in traditional dating of Vedic Upanisads and early Sramana tests, the author himself indulges in circular reasoning. All this is done to prove that the idea of Karmic retribution came into Brahmanism from Sramana schools. Personally I did not find this a preposterous hypothesis, but the reasoning and arguments in the book in support of it are very tenuous.
Especially that the argument that medical origin of Ayurveda is from the region of Greater Magadha is very poorly argued. Rather some of the arguments presented can be refuted by non scholars - especially as they are based on interpolation of a line or two from Megasthenes and other texts.
The book was written in 2007 , but it can be seen in light of recent genetic findings. Genetics is not touched in the book.
The arguments of linguistics - for apparent distance between Vedic and Classical Sanskrit and Pali - or in general Early and Middle Indo Aryan languages are not expanded.
Some claims - like Carvaka as a Brahmanical response to Sramana concept of Karmic retribution is interesting enough as personally I found it well argued.
In overall - a fascinating topic but maybe this topic needs more interdisciplinary work of linguistics, archeology, genetics and liturgical studies can intersect.
January 2, 2026
The nerve to date Brhadaranyaka Upanishad to after 150 BCE!!!!
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March 28, 2025Key takeaways:
1) There was no Hinduism in the Magadh region when Buddhism and Jainism developed.
2) At the time of Panini, Aryavart was limited to Allahabad in the south.
3) Karma and rebirth, were ingenious concepts; Hinduism took them later.
4) Upanishads were written later than Buddha.
5) Stupa was indigenous culture, hated by Hindus, even relic worshipping, but, Jainism later gave it up, and Buddhists continued the same.
6) Jainism is about, relieving oneself from Karma, hence, leading to voluntary death.
7) Ajvikism developed from Jainism, its founder was a disciple of Mahavira.
8) Jainism developed in the 8th-9th century.
9) Indigenous people used to bury their dead. Untouchables even do so now.
10) Sankhya is an indigenous philosophy, and Kapila was hated by Hindus according to Dharmshastra
11) Probably, four ashramas of Hinduism were not to be followed chronologically, but separately.
12) The mentions of caste and Hindu texts in Pali canon were added later.
13) Hindus preferred villages, that's why Upanishads are about villages, whereas, Buddhists preferred cities. Probably, due to Indus Valley Civilization.
14) Few Buddhist texts mention Greeks, thereby, relatively very new.
1) There was no Hinduism in the Magadh region when Buddhism and Jainism developed.
2) At the time of Panini, Aryavart was limited to Allahabad in the south.
3) Karma and rebirth, were ingenious concepts; Hinduism took them later.
4) Upanishads were written later than Buddha.
5) Stupa was indigenous culture, hated by Hindus, even relic worshipping, but, Jainism later gave it up, and Buddhists continued the same.
6) Jainism is about, relieving oneself from Karma, hence, leading to voluntary death.
7) Ajvikism developed from Jainism, its founder was a disciple of Mahavira.
8) Jainism developed in the 8th-9th century.
9) Indigenous people used to bury their dead. Untouchables even do so now.
10) Sankhya is an indigenous philosophy, and Kapila was hated by Hindus according to Dharmshastra
11) Probably, four ashramas of Hinduism were not to be followed chronologically, but separately.
12) The mentions of caste and Hindu texts in Pali canon were added later.
13) Hindus preferred villages, that's why Upanishads are about villages, whereas, Buddhists preferred cities. Probably, due to Indus Valley Civilization.
14) Few Buddhist texts mention Greeks, thereby, relatively very new.
September 10, 2016
A fascinating read for those interested. It presents the evidence for a non-Vedic origin of doctrines of rebirth/ karmic retribution and a new chronology for the early Upanishadic texts in relation to early Buddhist and Jain writing.
September 12, 2020
Even by going through the contents before reading the book, I was sure that I was going to enjoy reading it and I did, except some parts which I found boring and irrelevant for my research. This book is researched properly which gave factual conclusions based on the ancient texts.
September 11, 2016
great book... wow!
May 11, 2026
This book was recommended to me by my Dhamma teacher, scholar monk Venerable Shravasti Dhammika.
Johannes Bronkhorst was a well-known Indic scholar. This is the second book I read written by him - the first was “Buddhism in the Shadow of Brahmanism”.
This book is so rich and fascinating! You can see that he is a very careful scholar because he's very clear when data is insufficient to make a conclusive hypothesis, and he highlighted some commonly accepted beliefs that are actually based on weak foundations.
His research shows that there is a clear demarcation of the culture between ancient northwest India and northeast India (the later which he termed Greater Magadha). The Aryan settlement which happened over time, brought with them division of society into varnas or different classes (which eventually evolved into the caste system), a strong belief in ritual purity eg in the use of agni or fire, cremation practices, and there was no notion of self or belief in rebirth and kammic retribution. The medicinal approach was more magical spells, curses and potions. This was the Vedic or Brahmanical society.
In the northeast, ascetics or sramanas were an accepted part of society. Dominant beliefs and practices included those from Jainism, Ajivikism, and Buddhism. There was a belief in cyclic time, rebirth and kammic retribution, building stupas for the remains of the dead was a common funerary practise, medical approach was more empirical as they used plants, grains or poultices to hearl (likely gave rise to ayurveda).
I found it very interesting that Bronkhorst looked in detail at Vedic literature and constructed a chronology using the linguistic, stylistic and content data. He was able to show quite convincingly that except for the Rigveda, the oldest of the Vedic literature that predated the birth of religion such as Buddhism, most of the other Vedas that we know today were developed much later and would have likely absorbed the idea of rebirth and kammic retribution and also the notion of a “self” from the culture of Greater Madha in the northeast. And that this is one of the most critical ideas that have been absorbed by the late Vedic culture eg Samkya.
I think the concluding chapter of the book is very useful. The author used the comparison of “Discworld meeting Roundworld” from the story book that he had read. He said that the Vedic/Brahmanical culture fits the idea of a “Discworld” which is a magical one that makes use of incantations, curses, and runs on magic. The “Roundworld” is more rational and runs on rules. Like kammic rules.
And that there has likely been different waves of Aryan settlement over time - not a single invasion. And while all share the Indo-European language heritage, the northeast and the northwest had each developed their own culture over time. Some of these earlier settlers likely moved east and had developed their own culture and language variation over time. Both East and West influenced each over time, for example Tantric Buddhism adopted some of their practices and beliefs from the Brahmanical culture. However, the Brahmanical culture is more worldly, and appealed to kings. Brahmins supported kings in their knowledge of incantations and spells, statecraft and as advisors. So it eventually became dominant in India. But not without absorbing the belief of rebirth and kammic retribution which is central to the cultureof Greater Magadha. And one of the possible reasons is that it also justified the Brahmin claim of being highest ranked among the social classes - that it was their good kamma and that they deserved it.
Anyway, I think that even this review may get attacked because of the rise of Hindu nationalism in India. But I am sharing what I have read. History is much more complex that we think - and I think the author is saying just that.
So, we just be kind. Every religion and culture does not evolve in isolation or remains in its “purist” state. We all absorb ideas and practices from each other over time.
*I can’t do this book enough justice, as there are so many interesting details. So I am keeping this review brief and just sharing my key take-aways. Read it yourself.
Johannes Bronkhorst was a well-known Indic scholar. This is the second book I read written by him - the first was “Buddhism in the Shadow of Brahmanism”.
This book is so rich and fascinating! You can see that he is a very careful scholar because he's very clear when data is insufficient to make a conclusive hypothesis, and he highlighted some commonly accepted beliefs that are actually based on weak foundations.
His research shows that there is a clear demarcation of the culture between ancient northwest India and northeast India (the later which he termed Greater Magadha). The Aryan settlement which happened over time, brought with them division of society into varnas or different classes (which eventually evolved into the caste system), a strong belief in ritual purity eg in the use of agni or fire, cremation practices, and there was no notion of self or belief in rebirth and kammic retribution. The medicinal approach was more magical spells, curses and potions. This was the Vedic or Brahmanical society.
In the northeast, ascetics or sramanas were an accepted part of society. Dominant beliefs and practices included those from Jainism, Ajivikism, and Buddhism. There was a belief in cyclic time, rebirth and kammic retribution, building stupas for the remains of the dead was a common funerary practise, medical approach was more empirical as they used plants, grains or poultices to hearl (likely gave rise to ayurveda).
I found it very interesting that Bronkhorst looked in detail at Vedic literature and constructed a chronology using the linguistic, stylistic and content data. He was able to show quite convincingly that except for the Rigveda, the oldest of the Vedic literature that predated the birth of religion such as Buddhism, most of the other Vedas that we know today were developed much later and would have likely absorbed the idea of rebirth and kammic retribution and also the notion of a “self” from the culture of Greater Madha in the northeast. And that this is one of the most critical ideas that have been absorbed by the late Vedic culture eg Samkya.
I think the concluding chapter of the book is very useful. The author used the comparison of “Discworld meeting Roundworld” from the story book that he had read. He said that the Vedic/Brahmanical culture fits the idea of a “Discworld” which is a magical one that makes use of incantations, curses, and runs on magic. The “Roundworld” is more rational and runs on rules. Like kammic rules.
And that there has likely been different waves of Aryan settlement over time - not a single invasion. And while all share the Indo-European language heritage, the northeast and the northwest had each developed their own culture over time. Some of these earlier settlers likely moved east and had developed their own culture and language variation over time. Both East and West influenced each over time, for example Tantric Buddhism adopted some of their practices and beliefs from the Brahmanical culture. However, the Brahmanical culture is more worldly, and appealed to kings. Brahmins supported kings in their knowledge of incantations and spells, statecraft and as advisors. So it eventually became dominant in India. But not without absorbing the belief of rebirth and kammic retribution which is central to the cultureof Greater Magadha. And one of the possible reasons is that it also justified the Brahmin claim of being highest ranked among the social classes - that it was their good kamma and that they deserved it.
Anyway, I think that even this review may get attacked because of the rise of Hindu nationalism in India. But I am sharing what I have read. History is much more complex that we think - and I think the author is saying just that.
So, we just be kind. Every religion and culture does not evolve in isolation or remains in its “purist” state. We all absorb ideas and practices from each other over time.
*I can’t do this book enough justice, as there are so many interesting details. So I am keeping this review brief and just sharing my key take-aways. Read it yourself.
September 27, 2024
not perfecf but at least he tried to rely more on evidences than fairy tales. the book was published in 2007, sooner or later we are gonna know much late sanskrit texts e.g. brahminical texts trustable. sanskrit has its history in afghan and pakistan not in India, so is with "today's" brahminism.
December 24, 2024
Interesting thesis, not very convincingly argued. More interested in textual exegesis than in history.
April 27, 2015
I read this book since I want to read the 2nd book in these series, Buddhism in the Shadow of Brahmanism. The language in this book is quite dry compared to another book of Bronkhorst, Absorption.
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April 4, 2019Magadhi, the language of Magadha, is the easternmost Aryan dialect of which we have knowledge in Vedic times. Ayurveda, the classical school of Hindu medicine, drew most of its inspiration from the culture of Greater Magadha.
Displaying 1 - 11 of 11 reviews