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Speaking of Homosexuality: Discussing the Issues with Kindness and Clarity
Former Gay Activist Paves the Way to Peaceful ConversationHomosexuality and gay marriage stand among perhaps the greatest defining cultural battles of our age. There's no escaping the inevitable conversations--so how does a Christian respond with love and biblical truth without adding fuel to the fire?Drawing on nearly thirty years of counseling people struggling with homosexuality, former gay activist Joe Dallas takes readers through virtually every argument they are likely to hear in favor of normalizing homosexuality. He helps readers understand the views of LGBT people they may know and respond with clarity, confidence, and compassion. He shows the most effective ways to engage the subject on social media and in everyday encounters with guidelines for talking points, dialogue, approach, and tone, and even provides sample dialogue.Anyone who has been searching for ways to have productive, loving conversations surrounding this critical topic will find this incredible resource a must-have."At one time or another every twenty-first-century Christian is likely to be confronted about his or her views on homosexuality. But how can we approach this challenging issue in a way that faithfully reflects Jesus's heart and mind? Joe Dallas answers that question in this clear and compelling guide for engaging others with both gentleness and biblical truth."--Jim Daly, president, Focus on the Family"I've often said no one understands the subject of same-sex sexuality better than my friend Joe Dallas. This book, his best yet, only confirms my conviction. I'm not speaking merely of Joe's formidable knowledge of truth, but also the wisdom of its application through crystal-clear and concise communication. In the wake of the June 2015 US Supreme Court's redefinition of marriage, Speaking of Homosexuality will equip you to engage a topic that is foundational to human civilization."--Hank Hanegraaff, president, the Christian Research Institute; host of the Bible Answer Man broadcast"Speaking of Homosexuality is one of the most clear and informative books on the subject. Dallas responds to the most common Revisionist arguments with clarity, but also genuine kindness. If you want one book to offer biblical and historical truth about homosexuality, but also how to lovingly put that truth into action, then you won't find a better book."--Sean McDowell, PhD, professor of Christian apologetics, Biola University; author, Same-Sex Marriage and Apologetics for a New Generation"In answer to the urgency of our world's current situation, Joe Dallas has now crafted a resourceful tool filled with biblical truth and insightful strategies. Speaking of Homosexuality is essential for every person in need of answers for themselves, a family member, or a friend struggling with same-sex attraction."--Joni Lamb, cofounder, Daystar Television Network"There is no question that one of the most difficult issues facing the church today is the subject of homosexuality. But God didn't leave us in the dark on the topic of human sexuality. He gave us clear directives for this part of our lives so that we might experience the abundant life He promises. But speaking those guidelines to a confused church and a hardening culture isn't easy. No one does it better than Joe Dallas. Like no other voice I hear, Joe both lives and ministers with that continual balance of truth and love on this most contentious topic.
258 pages, Kindle Edition
Published October 18, 2016
37 people are currently reading
218 people want to read
About the author
Joe Dallas
19 books17 followersI'm a Christian author, husband and father of two, married to my lovely wife Renee since 1987. We fellowship at Newport Mesa Church in Orange County, CA, and I run a ministry in Tustin, CA, called Genesis Counseling. Most of my writing has focused on sexual issues from a conservative Christian perspective, and since 1987, I've been honored to work with men who want to resolve conflicts between their sexual behavior and their relationship with Christ.
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May 29, 2017
Summary: A point by point refutation by a former gay activist of the arguments against the church's traditional view of homosexuality.
I feel that I should begin this review with something of a "trigger warning." In coming months I will be occasionally reviewing books on the discussion going on between what might be called the "traditional" and "affirming" camps within the Christian community with regard to homosexuality. The warning is that probably no one who follows this blog will agree with all or even any of the books reviewed on this subject. Truth is, I probably won't either, or will not agree with all that I read. I don't read only things with which I agree. For some, this is a matter associated with deep and complicated emotions and experiences, and if this is too sensitive, it's OK to take a "pass" on these posts.
Now, down to the review of this book. Joe Dallas, its author is a self described "former gay activist" who, because of his faith in Christ turned from homosexual activity, eventually married, is the father of two children and in his writing and ministry deals with homosexuality and others issues related to sexuality from a traditional Christian perspective. I would characterize this book, unlike some others, as less pastoral and more polemical. Dallas writes and formats the book to address the arguments against a traditional view of homosexuality and respond to them. Each chapter follows a format of statement of a traditional view, what he calls "revisionist" arguments against that view, then traditional responses, and concludes with talking points. It reminds me a bit of Thomas Aquinas in Summa Theologica!
After an introduction that talks about misconceptions and presumptions both traditional and "revisionist" communities have of each other and the need, and difficulties, of moving beyond politics and rhetoric to relationship, he has two more chapters that lay groundwork for what is to follow. One is to identify who he is speaking to: militants, millenials, those in the Mainstream, Revisionists, friends and family. In reality, I suspect it is mostly other "traditionalists" who will read the book. The other is to identify his "rules of engagement": speak clearly, appropriately, empathically (1-3), concede what's true, consider what's possible, watch the apologies, recognize and point out diversions. On apologies, he would say we should own our own sins against LGBT persons but not apologize in vague terms for the whole church.
Then he takes up a series of issues that often arise in arguments against the traditionalist position:
Are people born gay?
Sexual orientation cannot be changed.
Same sex marriage and the Bible.
Homophobia, Hate, Hypocrisy, and Harm
Can someone be gay and Christian?
What was Sodom's sin?
Homosexuality and Leviticus
Jesus and Homosexuality
Paul and Romans
Paul and arsenokoites
I cannot summarize the arguments of each chapter in ways to do them justice. He would contend that whether people are "born gay" or not is immaterial to the validity of the traditional teaching. Not all our inborn tendencies should be indulged. Perhaps more controversial yet is his argument that some forms of change therapies, voluntarily pursued by the person and not under pressure, should be permitted. Perhaps most telling is his rhetoric against homophobic and "hate" labels. He believes that to think a behavior is wrong does not necessarily imply fear or hate if no signs of fearful or hating behavior accompany these beliefs.
The last five topics turn to the biblical arguments, stating both traditional and "revisionist" arguments with good citations of their works. Dallas provides a relatively concise summary of the discussion, albeit one that favors his view strongly, as one would expect.
My sense is that Dallas' book is a recognition that, given the shift in cultural opinions, and the wide acceptance of LGBT sexuality in society, anyone who still holds a traditional view and who affirms this personally or publicly needs to be able to clearly and compassionately give reasons for those views, if given the opportunity. Negative prescriptions of "what not to do and who not to do it with" just don't cut it.
At the same time, I just don't think the argument format of a book like this cuts it with millenials, even if they would agree theologically with Dallas. The tone, albeit a compassionate one, feels very much like the conversation those of the boomer generation have had (mostly within traditionalist circles) for thirty years around these issues. It seems to me that there is a relational dimension for millenials who have grown up around "out" LGBT persons, and a differing understanding about sexuality more broadly to which this feels a bit tone deaf.
The question in the end, of course, is who is right in these matters? If the traditionalist position is right, as Dallas argues, it cannot be minimized as a "non-essential" because in the end this leads to the adoption of revisionist theology, which he sees happening not only in mainline but also in evangelical communities. To shift to a "revisionist" or "affirming" understanding may just seem to be conforming to the wider culture and an expression of compassion, but it also means a break with twenty centuries of orthodoxy, as well as the convictions of much of the church in the majority world. That is no small thing, and calls not merely for sentiment, but good arguments where people listen to scripture, each other, and the Spirit of truth. Whether you agree with Dallas or not, given his personal narrative, and experience working with these issues, his arguments are important to heed as part of this larger conversation.
____________________________
Disclosure of Material Connection: I received this book free from the publisher. I was not required to write a positive review. The opinions I have expressed are my own.
I feel that I should begin this review with something of a "trigger warning." In coming months I will be occasionally reviewing books on the discussion going on between what might be called the "traditional" and "affirming" camps within the Christian community with regard to homosexuality. The warning is that probably no one who follows this blog will agree with all or even any of the books reviewed on this subject. Truth is, I probably won't either, or will not agree with all that I read. I don't read only things with which I agree. For some, this is a matter associated with deep and complicated emotions and experiences, and if this is too sensitive, it's OK to take a "pass" on these posts.
Now, down to the review of this book. Joe Dallas, its author is a self described "former gay activist" who, because of his faith in Christ turned from homosexual activity, eventually married, is the father of two children and in his writing and ministry deals with homosexuality and others issues related to sexuality from a traditional Christian perspective. I would characterize this book, unlike some others, as less pastoral and more polemical. Dallas writes and formats the book to address the arguments against a traditional view of homosexuality and respond to them. Each chapter follows a format of statement of a traditional view, what he calls "revisionist" arguments against that view, then traditional responses, and concludes with talking points. It reminds me a bit of Thomas Aquinas in Summa Theologica!
After an introduction that talks about misconceptions and presumptions both traditional and "revisionist" communities have of each other and the need, and difficulties, of moving beyond politics and rhetoric to relationship, he has two more chapters that lay groundwork for what is to follow. One is to identify who he is speaking to: militants, millenials, those in the Mainstream, Revisionists, friends and family. In reality, I suspect it is mostly other "traditionalists" who will read the book. The other is to identify his "rules of engagement": speak clearly, appropriately, empathically (1-3), concede what's true, consider what's possible, watch the apologies, recognize and point out diversions. On apologies, he would say we should own our own sins against LGBT persons but not apologize in vague terms for the whole church.
Then he takes up a series of issues that often arise in arguments against the traditionalist position:
Are people born gay?
Sexual orientation cannot be changed.
Same sex marriage and the Bible.
Homophobia, Hate, Hypocrisy, and Harm
Can someone be gay and Christian?
What was Sodom's sin?
Homosexuality and Leviticus
Jesus and Homosexuality
Paul and Romans
Paul and arsenokoites
I cannot summarize the arguments of each chapter in ways to do them justice. He would contend that whether people are "born gay" or not is immaterial to the validity of the traditional teaching. Not all our inborn tendencies should be indulged. Perhaps more controversial yet is his argument that some forms of change therapies, voluntarily pursued by the person and not under pressure, should be permitted. Perhaps most telling is his rhetoric against homophobic and "hate" labels. He believes that to think a behavior is wrong does not necessarily imply fear or hate if no signs of fearful or hating behavior accompany these beliefs.
The last five topics turn to the biblical arguments, stating both traditional and "revisionist" arguments with good citations of their works. Dallas provides a relatively concise summary of the discussion, albeit one that favors his view strongly, as one would expect.
My sense is that Dallas' book is a recognition that, given the shift in cultural opinions, and the wide acceptance of LGBT sexuality in society, anyone who still holds a traditional view and who affirms this personally or publicly needs to be able to clearly and compassionately give reasons for those views, if given the opportunity. Negative prescriptions of "what not to do and who not to do it with" just don't cut it.
At the same time, I just don't think the argument format of a book like this cuts it with millenials, even if they would agree theologically with Dallas. The tone, albeit a compassionate one, feels very much like the conversation those of the boomer generation have had (mostly within traditionalist circles) for thirty years around these issues. It seems to me that there is a relational dimension for millenials who have grown up around "out" LGBT persons, and a differing understanding about sexuality more broadly to which this feels a bit tone deaf.
The question in the end, of course, is who is right in these matters? If the traditionalist position is right, as Dallas argues, it cannot be minimized as a "non-essential" because in the end this leads to the adoption of revisionist theology, which he sees happening not only in mainline but also in evangelical communities. To shift to a "revisionist" or "affirming" understanding may just seem to be conforming to the wider culture and an expression of compassion, but it also means a break with twenty centuries of orthodoxy, as well as the convictions of much of the church in the majority world. That is no small thing, and calls not merely for sentiment, but good arguments where people listen to scripture, each other, and the Spirit of truth. Whether you agree with Dallas or not, given his personal narrative, and experience working with these issues, his arguments are important to heed as part of this larger conversation.
____________________________
Disclosure of Material Connection: I received this book free from the publisher. I was not required to write a positive review. The opinions I have expressed are my own.
December 1, 2016
Joe Dallas, Speaking of Homosexuality: Discussing the Issues with Kindness and Clarity (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books, 2016).
The Christian sexual ethic is out of step with the times. This is true across a wide range of heterosexual behaviors, such as premarital sex, cohabitation and no-fault divorce. But Christians are rarely called out for their opposition to those behaviors. When it comes to homosexuality, however, the response is different. Christian opposition to homosexuality generally or same-sex marriage specifically provokes accusations of homophobia and hatred.
The Supreme Court’s 2015 Obergefell v. Hodges decision, which legalized same-sex marriage throughout the nation, further contributes to the marginalization of the Christian sexual ethic. Same-sex marriage is now understood as a fundamental civil right, and opposition to it is likened to support for segregation in the American South during the era of Jim Crow.
How should Christians speak of homosexuality in this adverse environment?
That’s the question my friend Joe Dallas seeks to answer in his new book, Speaking of Homosexuality. Until 1984, Joe was “a staff member with a pro-gay church, an openly gay man, and an activist, identifying as a gay Christian, arguing for the acceptance of homosexuality.” Then, however, his study of Scripture convinced him that he was in error. For the last thirty years, he has ministered to others, both gay and straight, helping them to develop a biblical perspective on human sexuality. He thus brings a unique personal perspective to bear on this controversial topic.
Joe frames much of the book as a conversation between “Traditionalists” and “Revisionists.” Traditionalists advocate the “traditional view of marriage and sexuality,” namely, that marriage is the lifelong union of a man and a woman, and that outside of marriage, a person should remain celibate. Revisionists advocate “revising our view of Scripture or of morality in general to condone homosexuality.”
The first three chapters of Speaking of Homosexuality provide a “contextual overview” of the debate between Traditionalists and Revisionists. Chapter 1 argues that “knowing the context of our conversation can help us anticipate problems, adjust our approach, and stay sensitive to the perceptions and feelings of others.” Joe points out that the often acrimonious conversations between the two groups typically revolve around “presumption, politics, and the personal” (emphasis in original). Both sides, that is to say, make assumptions about the other the side that renders them “guilty of stereotyping.” Consequently, “mistrust is a frequent companion” to such conversations.
Chapter 2 identifies three goals traditionalist Christians may have when speaking of homosexuality with others: “evangelizing an unbeliever, discipling a believer in error, or simply reasoning with someone about our different views.” These goals shape the content of those conversations in different ways.
Additionally, who your conversation partner is shapes the kind of conversation you have. Joe identifies five groups in particular: “militants, mainstream, millennials, Revisionists, and friends and family.” Too often, traditionalists lump all LGBT people and their allies into the militant category. Dallas thinks this is a mistake. Rather, “most…could be described as mainstream, fellow humans and citizens with whom we have more in common than differences. And, per Jesus, they’re our neighbors, whom we’re to love and serve.” That last sentence is key, as far as I’m concerned. Too often, Traditionalists approach those on the other side of this issue as enemies to be defeated rather than as neighbors to be loved. That’s not Jesus’ way of doing things.
Chapter 3 then outlines seven guidelines to follow when speaking of homosexuality:
Speak clearly.
Speak appropriately.
Speak empathically.
Concede what’s true.
Consider what’s possible.
Watch the apologies.
Recognize and point out diversions.
I want to hone in on numbers 3 and 4, because this is where I think my fellow Traditionalists most often go wrong. We do not empathize with the “feelings” and “experiences” of LGBT people. Consequently, we are prone to speak “irresponsible, inaccurate, contemptuous words” at or about them. “Lots of Christians have said hateful things about gays,” Dallas writes. “Lots of Christians are more upset about homosexuality than they are about adultery or fornication, even though those are condemned in the Bible.” Both statements are true. There is no virtue in denying either of them.
If chapters 1–3 address the “context” of our conversations, chapters 4–13 address their “content.” Dallas examines the “origins of homosexuality” (chapter 4), whether “change” of orientation is possible (chapter 5), whether opposition to same-sex marriage is reasonable (chapter 6), whether moral disapproval of homosexuality in and of itself constitutes “homophobia” or “hate” (chapter 7), and in what sense a person can or cannot identify as a “gay Christian” (chapter 8). Dallas’ discussion of the issues in these chapters is nuanced, which is appropriate for the complex subjects they address.
Chapters 9–13 then take up the proper interpretation of the most commonly cited biblical passages disapproving of homosexuality: Genesis 19:1–11 (chapter 9); Leviticus 18:22, 20:13 (chapter 10); Romans 1:24–27 (chapter 12); 1 Corinthians 6:9–10, 1 Timothy 1:9–10 (chapter 13). Chapter 11 examines what significance Jesus’ “silence” about homosexuality has for the moral debate. Dallas’ treatment of these passages is brief but competent. Like him, I find it difficult to agree with Revisionist interpretation of these passages, for the reasons that he cites.
Indeed, in my opinion, it would be more intellectually honest for Revisionists to say that these passages are wrong or irrelevant than to say that they have been misinterpreted or misapplied. In other words, there is good reason why the Traditionalist position has been the default position of the Church for the last two millennia. It is because, as the children’s gospel song says, “the Bible tells me so.” If you’re familiar with the historical arc of the Revisionist position, it begins with “The Bible has been misinterpreted” and ends with “The Bible is wrong on this matter.” That is the arc of mainline Protestant thinking on this topic. My guess is that that is where evangelical Revisionists will land eventually as well. Disagreeing with the Bible is not a place where evangelicals should want to be.
Speaking of Homosexuality is a countercultural book. As I wrote at the outset, the Christian sexual ethic is out of step with the times. This is nothing new, however, since Christianity’s sexual ethic was out of step with the culture of its own time as well. The question, then as now, is with whom—or rather, Whom—we will walk in step going forward.
I’ll conclude this review with Joe Dallas’ closing words:
_____
P.S. If you found my review helpful, please vote “Yes” on my Amazon review page.
P.P.S. This review originally appeared at InfluenceMagazine.com.
The Christian sexual ethic is out of step with the times. This is true across a wide range of heterosexual behaviors, such as premarital sex, cohabitation and no-fault divorce. But Christians are rarely called out for their opposition to those behaviors. When it comes to homosexuality, however, the response is different. Christian opposition to homosexuality generally or same-sex marriage specifically provokes accusations of homophobia and hatred.
The Supreme Court’s 2015 Obergefell v. Hodges decision, which legalized same-sex marriage throughout the nation, further contributes to the marginalization of the Christian sexual ethic. Same-sex marriage is now understood as a fundamental civil right, and opposition to it is likened to support for segregation in the American South during the era of Jim Crow.
How should Christians speak of homosexuality in this adverse environment?
That’s the question my friend Joe Dallas seeks to answer in his new book, Speaking of Homosexuality. Until 1984, Joe was “a staff member with a pro-gay church, an openly gay man, and an activist, identifying as a gay Christian, arguing for the acceptance of homosexuality.” Then, however, his study of Scripture convinced him that he was in error. For the last thirty years, he has ministered to others, both gay and straight, helping them to develop a biblical perspective on human sexuality. He thus brings a unique personal perspective to bear on this controversial topic.
Joe frames much of the book as a conversation between “Traditionalists” and “Revisionists.” Traditionalists advocate the “traditional view of marriage and sexuality,” namely, that marriage is the lifelong union of a man and a woman, and that outside of marriage, a person should remain celibate. Revisionists advocate “revising our view of Scripture or of morality in general to condone homosexuality.”
The first three chapters of Speaking of Homosexuality provide a “contextual overview” of the debate between Traditionalists and Revisionists. Chapter 1 argues that “knowing the context of our conversation can help us anticipate problems, adjust our approach, and stay sensitive to the perceptions and feelings of others.” Joe points out that the often acrimonious conversations between the two groups typically revolve around “presumption, politics, and the personal” (emphasis in original). Both sides, that is to say, make assumptions about the other the side that renders them “guilty of stereotyping.” Consequently, “mistrust is a frequent companion” to such conversations.
Chapter 2 identifies three goals traditionalist Christians may have when speaking of homosexuality with others: “evangelizing an unbeliever, discipling a believer in error, or simply reasoning with someone about our different views.” These goals shape the content of those conversations in different ways.
Additionally, who your conversation partner is shapes the kind of conversation you have. Joe identifies five groups in particular: “militants, mainstream, millennials, Revisionists, and friends and family.” Too often, traditionalists lump all LGBT people and their allies into the militant category. Dallas thinks this is a mistake. Rather, “most…could be described as mainstream, fellow humans and citizens with whom we have more in common than differences. And, per Jesus, they’re our neighbors, whom we’re to love and serve.” That last sentence is key, as far as I’m concerned. Too often, Traditionalists approach those on the other side of this issue as enemies to be defeated rather than as neighbors to be loved. That’s not Jesus’ way of doing things.
Chapter 3 then outlines seven guidelines to follow when speaking of homosexuality:
Speak clearly.
Speak appropriately.
Speak empathically.
Concede what’s true.
Consider what’s possible.
Watch the apologies.
Recognize and point out diversions.
I want to hone in on numbers 3 and 4, because this is where I think my fellow Traditionalists most often go wrong. We do not empathize with the “feelings” and “experiences” of LGBT people. Consequently, we are prone to speak “irresponsible, inaccurate, contemptuous words” at or about them. “Lots of Christians have said hateful things about gays,” Dallas writes. “Lots of Christians are more upset about homosexuality than they are about adultery or fornication, even though those are condemned in the Bible.” Both statements are true. There is no virtue in denying either of them.
If chapters 1–3 address the “context” of our conversations, chapters 4–13 address their “content.” Dallas examines the “origins of homosexuality” (chapter 4), whether “change” of orientation is possible (chapter 5), whether opposition to same-sex marriage is reasonable (chapter 6), whether moral disapproval of homosexuality in and of itself constitutes “homophobia” or “hate” (chapter 7), and in what sense a person can or cannot identify as a “gay Christian” (chapter 8). Dallas’ discussion of the issues in these chapters is nuanced, which is appropriate for the complex subjects they address.
Chapters 9–13 then take up the proper interpretation of the most commonly cited biblical passages disapproving of homosexuality: Genesis 19:1–11 (chapter 9); Leviticus 18:22, 20:13 (chapter 10); Romans 1:24–27 (chapter 12); 1 Corinthians 6:9–10, 1 Timothy 1:9–10 (chapter 13). Chapter 11 examines what significance Jesus’ “silence” about homosexuality has for the moral debate. Dallas’ treatment of these passages is brief but competent. Like him, I find it difficult to agree with Revisionist interpretation of these passages, for the reasons that he cites.
Indeed, in my opinion, it would be more intellectually honest for Revisionists to say that these passages are wrong or irrelevant than to say that they have been misinterpreted or misapplied. In other words, there is good reason why the Traditionalist position has been the default position of the Church for the last two millennia. It is because, as the children’s gospel song says, “the Bible tells me so.” If you’re familiar with the historical arc of the Revisionist position, it begins with “The Bible has been misinterpreted” and ends with “The Bible is wrong on this matter.” That is the arc of mainline Protestant thinking on this topic. My guess is that that is where evangelical Revisionists will land eventually as well. Disagreeing with the Bible is not a place where evangelicals should want to be.
Speaking of Homosexuality is a countercultural book. As I wrote at the outset, the Christian sexual ethic is out of step with the times. This is nothing new, however, since Christianity’s sexual ethic was out of step with the culture of its own time as well. The question, then as now, is with whom—or rather, Whom—we will walk in step going forward.
I’ll conclude this review with Joe Dallas’ closing words:
A steward is rewarded for faithfulness, not outcomes. We hope greater faithfulness means greater outcomes. But ‘other things’—such as God’s and the hearer’s will—come into play. And since those factors are out of our hands, we keep those hands on the plow, striving to improve our understanding, articulation, attitudes, and faithfulness to the standards we preach. Above all, we continue seeking deeper intimacy with the Master we serve.
Speaking of homosexuality is a small part of that life commission. Our more general commission is to speak of Jesus, His teachings, His invitation, His nature, and His soon coming. Any truth we can lovingly communicate to better prepare people for eternity, binding them to Him, is critical.
_____
P.S. If you found my review helpful, please vote “Yes” on my Amazon review page.
P.P.S. This review originally appeared at InfluenceMagazine.com.
June 28, 2017
I have to offer up a disclaimer here - I think that Joe Dallas is one of my favourite authors when it comes to the issue of human sexuality. Why, you may ask? Each book I've read by Dallas is just utterly readable, clearly laid out and easy to understand. So I was very pleased to see a new release from Dallas! And indeed, "Speaking of Homosexuality" certainly met my expectations, as the book has been written very well, is nicely organized, and is chock full of practical and Biblical wisdom when it comes to the issue of homosexuality.
There truly is no other issue in our modern day church that elicits such a wide variety of reactions from Christians, from confusion to anger to a (hopefully) loving response. Dallas will help you wade through the variety of messages that our culture is throwing at you, and he does so in a clear and engaging manner that keeps a high view of Scripture front and centre throughout. He is not afraid to tackle the most convincing of arguments the world throws at us, looking at both the Traditional views of homosexuality, and the revisionist views that are more in line with our culture rather than holding true to scripture. It is always surprising to me that people can acknowledge the existence of God, who exists outside of time, and then in the same breath say that the Bible can't possibly be speaking to loving, monogamous, homosexual couples today because these type of relationships didn't exist when the Bible was written. And yet if God is God, existing outside of time and knowing all things, surely we can believe that he would speak clearly about human sexuality of all kinds - and He certainly does! Dallas does a great job at examining the scriptures that speak to homosexuality. And, I love that Dallas can speak from personal experience as he was a former gay activist, so it would be impossible to accuse him of not understanding these issues. Rather, he can speak firsthand of how the Holy Spirit convicted his heart and how he stands firmly on the historical view of the church that the homosexual lifestyle is not congruent with scripture. Rather, he calls Christians to embrace those living in the homosexual lifestyle with love while speaking the truth of the freedom of Christ at the same time.
I highly recommend this intensely practical book for all Christians, whether those in the traditional or revisionist camps (or those somewhere in between). You will be challenged to think, will be pointed to the Word of God, and will finish the book with a much more well-developed sense of the conversations that are occurring around the world today about the Bible and what God has to say about our sexuality. I thoroughly and completely recommend this book and award it 5 out of 5 stars.
Book has been provided courtesy of Baker Publishing Group and Graf-Martin Communications, Inc.
There truly is no other issue in our modern day church that elicits such a wide variety of reactions from Christians, from confusion to anger to a (hopefully) loving response. Dallas will help you wade through the variety of messages that our culture is throwing at you, and he does so in a clear and engaging manner that keeps a high view of Scripture front and centre throughout. He is not afraid to tackle the most convincing of arguments the world throws at us, looking at both the Traditional views of homosexuality, and the revisionist views that are more in line with our culture rather than holding true to scripture. It is always surprising to me that people can acknowledge the existence of God, who exists outside of time, and then in the same breath say that the Bible can't possibly be speaking to loving, monogamous, homosexual couples today because these type of relationships didn't exist when the Bible was written. And yet if God is God, existing outside of time and knowing all things, surely we can believe that he would speak clearly about human sexuality of all kinds - and He certainly does! Dallas does a great job at examining the scriptures that speak to homosexuality. And, I love that Dallas can speak from personal experience as he was a former gay activist, so it would be impossible to accuse him of not understanding these issues. Rather, he can speak firsthand of how the Holy Spirit convicted his heart and how he stands firmly on the historical view of the church that the homosexual lifestyle is not congruent with scripture. Rather, he calls Christians to embrace those living in the homosexual lifestyle with love while speaking the truth of the freedom of Christ at the same time.
I highly recommend this intensely practical book for all Christians, whether those in the traditional or revisionist camps (or those somewhere in between). You will be challenged to think, will be pointed to the Word of God, and will finish the book with a much more well-developed sense of the conversations that are occurring around the world today about the Bible and what God has to say about our sexuality. I thoroughly and completely recommend this book and award it 5 out of 5 stars.
Book has been provided courtesy of Baker Publishing Group and Graf-Martin Communications, Inc.
December 2, 2018
In “Speaking of Homosexuality – Discussing the Issues with Kindness & Clarity” (Baker Books, 2016), author Joe Dallas presents the Traditional and Revisionist (his usage of terminology) perspectives and a look at “the pros and cons in the gay debate” with suggested responses.
Dallas defines the Traditional view as seeing that “homosexual acts, like numerous other sexual behaviors, fall short of God’s intention and are therefore sins” and “it (homosexuality) is an unnatural condition God never intended, but which exists as one of the many manifestations of fallen human nature.” As to the Revisionist view, he writes, it “advocates revising our view of Scripture or of morality in general to condone homosexuality.” (p 17)
Dallas wrote the book “to help the reader better understand arguments in favor of homosexuality, and to equip (the reader) to meet those arguments with responses that are accurate, biblical, and compassionate.” (p 17) In the latter section of the book, Dallas presents his interpretations of the verses most typically used to condemn homosexuality. Scripture is key to the discussion, he writes, because “we’re commissioned to learn the truth, live that truth, and express that truth and the Heart (God’s) it reflects, to whoever will hear.” (p 25)
I’ve noted in other reviews of books written by Dallas that he selectively uses outdated information to support his narrative. This is a dishonest practice that Dallas has mastered. He uses old information, often citing studies over 25 years old. He ignores modern and recent findings on human sexuality, and frequently takes quotes out of context while deceptively citing them as though they are current.
In assessing the validity of Dallas’s voice in the “gay debate,” it is crucial to understand Dallas’ background and credentials. I know hundreds of gay people and their families who have counseled directly with Dallas and countless others who have been impacted by his books, presentations and teachings. Though he clearly states on his website that he is a biblical counselor, most former clients believed he is trained and licensed to do therapy work.
[His fees certainly reflect a level of expertise. He charges $100/hr for counseling, $90 on the phone, $50 for four emails, $500 for parents 10 session online support groups, $1,000 for "struggling" men for a two-day intensive session, $1,200 for two days for a couples intensive session.]
Of his past, Dallas writes, “I’d been a staff member with a pro-gay church, an openly gay man, and an activist, identifying as a gay Christian, arguing for the acceptance of homosexuality.” (p 13) There are a few details Dallas conveniently leaves out of the frequent telling of his story. (Source: online interviews with JD)
He grew up in Southern California, and by 8th grade was having sex with boys and girls and using drugs. By the age of 15 in 1971, he was also having sex with adult men. (Source: online interviews with JD)
Dallas, writes he was “on staff with a local gay church and preached that homosexuality and Christianity were compatible, then finally, after six years of self-delusion, repented at 29.” There are a few details Dallas conveniently leaves out of the frequent telling of his story. (Source: online interviews with JD)
Dallas, saved as part of the Jesus movement, had a conversion experience at 15 at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa. At 18, he was ordained at Calvary Chapel and worked in the music ministry, did counseling, conducted weddings and funerals, and got married to a woman. As the church began to develop internal problems, Dallas and his wife left for secular jobs.
He got involved in pornography, went to female and male prostitutes, had an affair with a friend’s wife (she got pregnant with Dallas’ child and had an abortion), ended his marriage, started drinking heavily, and had an extended relationship with a man. (Source: online interviews with JD)
In his search for renewed faith, he went to a Metropolitan Community Church (gay-affirming), where he was involved in worship, but not on staff. At the age of 29, Dallas went back to Calvary Chapel, started seeing a Christian counselor, and got interested in Christian counseling as a profession.
Dallas received a Masters in Christian counseling at Vision Christian College near San Diego, a school unaccredited by the U.S. Department of Education (price for this degree is currently $5,400), first intending to work in the field of drug and alcohol rehabilitation. Finding no jobs, he interned at a “little Christian counseling center, which was counseling people who were struggling with homosexuality and with pornography.”
Dallas married his second wife who joined him in ministry work in 1992.
He has had no formal training or degree in the area of human sexuality or therapeutic counseling. He is not licensed by a recognized mental health therapy organization.
A few commentaries before digging into the book, chapter by chapter: most experts in human sexuality recognize a spectrum of natural sexual orientation from homosexuality to heterosexuality, including bisexuality. Though none of us gets to label another person’s sexual identity because it is a personal issue, it is highly problematic, yet simultaneously convenient, when “ex-gays” such as Dallas completely ignore the category of bisexuality (having a natural attraction to men and women).
Conversion to Christianity certainly did transform Dallas’ life of sexual excess and substance abuse. It is far less likely to have altered his innate sexual orientation.
This is the background of the author of “Speaking of Homosexuality.”
Chapter 1 – The Context of Our Conversation. Dallas writes that the context of the conversation between the Traditionalist and Revisionist view is shaped by presumptions, politics, and personal experience.
Dallas clearly states “My position on the wrongness of homosexuality hasn’t budged an inch, nor will it.” He believes his views to be firmly rooted in Christian doctrine. On a positive note, he does well in cautioning readers that there is no “gay lifestyle.”
Dallas states that some Traditionalists have an exaggerated emotional aversion to homosexual acts, commonly called the “ick factor” or “a natural aversion to unnatural behavior.” I often chuckle at the term “unnatural behavior.” What people do with their bodies in mutual and loving relationships, may not be normative in some relationships, but that does not make it “unnatural.” After all, the mouth was made to speak and eat with, yet humans have certainly used the mouth for creative purposes that few of us would label as “unnatural.”
In the realm of politics, Dallas writes, “Some of us see the gay rights movement’s political and social goals as unfair, sometimes even draconian. And whereas many lesbian and gays believe we threaten their sexual and relational freedoms, many of us believe they threaten our freedoms of speech, religion, and conscience.” (p 35) How odd. The desire to gain dignity, fair treatment and equal access to marriage is hardly “draconian.” Attaining those goals does not threaten freedom of speech (people can say whatever they want. In the U.S., the Westboro Baptist Church proves that,) Nor does it threaten to take away the manner in which we express our relationship with God or our personal moral conscience. Equality does however, make it illegal in many venues within the federal government or areas of licensing, to discriminate against anyone, LGBT people included.
A tactic frequently used by people, Dallas included, attempting block LGBT equality, is to incite fear with a threatened loss of “religious liberties.” Clearly, U.S. freedom of speech protections do not apply to a nurse in Ireland, Canadian airwaves, Swedish pastors, or European countries, yet Dallas uses such events as threats that “ominously hint at America’s conceivable near future.” (p 37)
Chapter 2 – To Whom am I Speaking?. Dallas tells his readers to be conscious of the person with whom they are evangelizing, discipling, and reasoning. There are militants – those who accept that homosexuality is normal and view that those who oppose them are “contemptible and should be converted or silenced.” (p 43) These militants “are prone to bullying.”
Characteristically, Dallas cites the ACT UP demonstration in St. Patrick’s Cathedral as one of two examples of militant bullying. Conveniently, he does not mention the date or context of the action. It was 1987, in the midst of the AIDS crisis. Perhaps if 20,436 of your tribe members had died and there had been virtually no Christian response (except from the Metropolitan Community Church) to the crisis, you might understand the need to draw attention to the massive number of deaths and the crisis with demands and a call to action. Dallas calls it bullying.
He goes on to write that “most same-sex-attracted people and their supporters could be described as mainstream” and are not hostile “to us.” “For every Larry Kramer (the ACT UP leader) or Dan Savage(gay talk show host), there’s a homosexual person who’s decent and reasonable.” (p 46) Let’s try this shoe on the other foot. “For every Fred Phelps or Scott Lively, there’s a conservative Christian who’s decent and reasonable.”
Another audience readers need to be aware of is millennials who may not agree with “assumptions about sexuality on which prior generations of Americans were raised haven’t been prevalent in their lives.” (p 47) They likely view homosexuality as normal.
Next, there are Christian Revisionists, as I would be labeled by Dallas. Such people, according to the author, believe the Bible is authoritative yet has been misunderstood on the matter of homosexuality. Finally, there are friends and family members who have a more personal and vested interest in discussions about the intersection of the Bible and sexual orientation.
Chapter 3 – Rules of Engagement. Speak clearly, appropriately, empathetically, concede to what is true (this does not concern doctrine, but is more along the lines of “Christians say hateful things, Christians have been wrong in the past,” and the like). One should recognize and point out diversions (when a Traditionalist talks about homosexuality falling short of God’s design, don’t be diverted by counter “distractions” like LGBT suicide, equality as a civil right, and the high levels of Christians getting divorced).
Chapter 4 -- Born Gay? Dallas presents his four different theories as to why people might be gay; these include: inborn theory, developmental theory (family dynamics and early experiences, like sexual abuse), spiritual (demonic forces), and behavioral choice.
Here may be a good place to make more broad statements about biblical view of human sexuality and historical context. Otherwise, I would need to counter sentences on almost every page written by Dallas.
Dallas anchors his understanding of human sexuality by asserting that “sexual orientation, then (in the 1st century), was known of and written about in Paul’s time.” (p 203) This is categorically an untrue and impossible basis upon which to build a biblical argument against homosexuality and further, to use the Bible as a text to develop an expertise in human sexuality.
While the refutation of Dallas’ position that sexual orientation was known in ancient cultures is long, I lay the groundwork supporting a more historically accurate timeline and a view of Scripture that is inclusive of LGBT Christians in the first ten chapters in my book “Walking the Bridgeless Canyon.”
Simply put, the same-sex behavior presented in the Bible depicts man on boy sex, sexual excess, and/or lust, or in the case of Sodom, rape. In the context of ancient cultures in which the Bible was written, we always see either an age or power differential between the men and his sex partner.
Two people of the same-sex, of equal social status, in mutually loving, consensual, monogamous relationships were not culturally visible until the early 20th century.
The biblical texts referencing same-sex behavior were written to particular audiences in a particular context of time (14th century BC and 1st century AD). No one in the 1st century could have understood the concept of same-sex relationships. Jesus, though certainly the Son of God, operated as a person within His culture and time. He wouldn't have said anything, either for or against, same-sex couples.
Dallas’ certainty that biblical authors understood and were referring to homosexuality leads him to use the Bible as a text on human sexuality, thereby ignoring what is known by human sexuality experts.
When one’s foundational presumptions are deeply flawed, and do not hold up to historical, cultural, medical, psychological and academic scrutiny, the baseline assumptions, and all that is built upon them are highly problematic, if not completely wrong. These denials of fact, context, and history, along with selective abuse of Scripture, results in dangerous advice and counseling practices.
Back to Chapter 4. Throughout the chapter, Dallas ignores current information about human sexuality, again, characteristically, citing 20- and 25-year-old information as a basis for his beliefs. He gives credence, however, to “the possibility of inborn sinful tendencies” that entered humans after The Fall. (p 67) Not only does the Bible not list “human tendencies” that are sinful “after the fall,” it is highly presumptive to create our own list of behaviors we call sinful, or do not like, or situations we cannot explain as “after the fall.” After all, the birth of children came “after the fall,” as did the splitting of humanity into races presented as good in the final celebration depicted in Revelation.
Chapter 5 – The “Change Controversy.” Dallas discusses the closing of Exodus International, and the nationwide movement to ban reparative therapy for minors. As we’ve come to expect, Dallas ignores what experts on human sexuality overwhelmingly agree on – human sexuality exists naturally across a spectrum from heterosexuality to homosexuality. Homosexuality is therefore not a condition in need of fixing.
He believes, as with alcoholism and addictions, homosexuality can be treated and behaviors altered. This is one of the chapters where I could get bogged down in commenting on each suggested pro-gay argument and the Dallas-suggested Traditionalist response. All the responses are predicated on a belief that homosexuality is not within the spectrum of normal and created human sexuality, and therefore, sinful.
Dallas views any non-heterosexual orientation as sinful. Human sexuality experts and “Revisionists” do not agree with him. For those of us who view homosexuality as a natural orientation, it is both possible and quite easy for us to hold both a high view of Scripture and respect what has been historically been discovered about human sexuality. The Bible is not a textbook on human sexuality and should not be used as such. Simply put, incidences of same-sex behavior presented in the Bible depicts man on boy sex, sexual excess, and/or lust, or in the case of Sodom, rape. In ancient cultures, we always see either an age or power differential between the men and his sex partner.
Chapter 6 – Same-Sex Marriage. Unsurprisingly, Dallas says same-sex marriage is a “risk taken for the preferences of a few adults without consideration of the long term effects on children, marriage and society.” (p 88) He calls marriage equality “a recent redefinition of marriage (that) is another downward step.” (p 88) and “an experiment.” (p 89) The legal battles of Prop 8 and in the Supreme Court were the ideal places to cite evidence that extending equal access to the legal contract of marriage between two people of the same sex would damage children, marriage and society. Compelling evidence was not offered. Marriage equality became the federal law.
The studies Dallas offers to show damaging effects on children in same-sex marriages have been dismissed as misrepresented findings, flawed, or skewed by courts of law. Last year, Harvard University assessed all 72 studies conducted on the effects of same-sex marriage on children. Seventy of those studies showed no negative impact. The two studies Dallas presents are the exceptions.
Dallas, when questioning the possible effects of same-sex parenting, writes “if intense lobbying from gay advocacy groups could produce something as profound as change in the American Psychiatric Association’s (APA) diagnostic manual, we have to view their other (and lesser) statements and decisions regarding homosexuality with a certain skepticism.” (p 94) I cover this APA decision-making process to drop the designation of mental illness from homosexuality over a long period from 1955 to 1973 in Chapter 4 of my book WTBC.
It is a gross exaggeration to label that process as “intense lobbying.” It was basically four or five activists, along with some deeply closeted gay therapists inside the APA, who simultaneously and separately pressured the APA to recognize and act on research first presented in 1956 that revealed those with a homosexual orientation were therapeutically undifferentiated from heterosexuals. When that research was buried and later uncovered in 1972, the small group of activists demanded that the APA listen to them and take action to remove the designation of mental illness off homosexuality.
Again, Dallas uses comments from gay activists out of context and conveniently neglects to place those comments in a time frame. Words spoken in 1993 appear as if they are opinions of activists today. Dallas does this in his other books as well. It is a well established pattern of his writings.
One section of this chapter on same-sex marriage gave me quite a chuckle. Dallas postulates the “usual” pattern of gay married couples is “open marriages.” “Heterosexual husbands, take a cue from non-monogamous gay men (that) open marriage can be fun.” (p 99) Heterosexuals are doing quite “well” on their own with respects to infidelity. According to recent studies 23% of husbands and 19% of wives in heterosexual marriages are unfaithful. I don’t think the gays made them do it.
Chapter 7 – Homophobia, Hate, Hypocrisy, and Harm. Dallas spends too much time parsing the word “homophobia” as REALLY meaning a psychological fear. His defense that conservative Christians are not “phobic” is meaningless and quite silly. Though the word may not be true to its Latin roots, overtime, it has come to mean a dislike or prejudice against gay people. And yes, that dislike and prejudice is real.
Dallas also builds the case that Traditionalists are not “haters” and should resist the title. Personally, when I speak, write or present, I never use the terms “haters” or “homophobics.” I think I can confidently say the same of others who engage in these dialogues in higher levels especially in Christian circles.
Chapter 8 – Gay Christians, Chapter 9 – Sodom, Chapter 10 – Homosexuality and Leviticus, Chapter 11 – What Jesus Did and Didn’t Say, Chapter 12 – Paul and Romans, Chapter 13 – Paul and Arsenokoites. “To practice homosexuality is to behave outside clearly prescribed, God-given boundaries. That can’t be right, and if a Christian is limited by right living, then gay and Christian are incompatible.” (p 125)
Again, when one’s foundational presumptions are deeply flawed, and do not hold up to historical, cultural, medical, psychological and academic scrutiny, the baseline assumptions and biblical interpretations that are built upon them are highly problematic, if not completely wrong.
(Continued on my blog or on Amazon.)
Dallas defines the Traditional view as seeing that “homosexual acts, like numerous other sexual behaviors, fall short of God’s intention and are therefore sins” and “it (homosexuality) is an unnatural condition God never intended, but which exists as one of the many manifestations of fallen human nature.” As to the Revisionist view, he writes, it “advocates revising our view of Scripture or of morality in general to condone homosexuality.” (p 17)
Dallas wrote the book “to help the reader better understand arguments in favor of homosexuality, and to equip (the reader) to meet those arguments with responses that are accurate, biblical, and compassionate.” (p 17) In the latter section of the book, Dallas presents his interpretations of the verses most typically used to condemn homosexuality. Scripture is key to the discussion, he writes, because “we’re commissioned to learn the truth, live that truth, and express that truth and the Heart (God’s) it reflects, to whoever will hear.” (p 25)
I’ve noted in other reviews of books written by Dallas that he selectively uses outdated information to support his narrative. This is a dishonest practice that Dallas has mastered. He uses old information, often citing studies over 25 years old. He ignores modern and recent findings on human sexuality, and frequently takes quotes out of context while deceptively citing them as though they are current.
In assessing the validity of Dallas’s voice in the “gay debate,” it is crucial to understand Dallas’ background and credentials. I know hundreds of gay people and their families who have counseled directly with Dallas and countless others who have been impacted by his books, presentations and teachings. Though he clearly states on his website that he is a biblical counselor, most former clients believed he is trained and licensed to do therapy work.
[His fees certainly reflect a level of expertise. He charges $100/hr for counseling, $90 on the phone, $50 for four emails, $500 for parents 10 session online support groups, $1,000 for "struggling" men for a two-day intensive session, $1,200 for two days for a couples intensive session.]
Of his past, Dallas writes, “I’d been a staff member with a pro-gay church, an openly gay man, and an activist, identifying as a gay Christian, arguing for the acceptance of homosexuality.” (p 13) There are a few details Dallas conveniently leaves out of the frequent telling of his story. (Source: online interviews with JD)
He grew up in Southern California, and by 8th grade was having sex with boys and girls and using drugs. By the age of 15 in 1971, he was also having sex with adult men. (Source: online interviews with JD)
Dallas, writes he was “on staff with a local gay church and preached that homosexuality and Christianity were compatible, then finally, after six years of self-delusion, repented at 29.” There are a few details Dallas conveniently leaves out of the frequent telling of his story. (Source: online interviews with JD)
Dallas, saved as part of the Jesus movement, had a conversion experience at 15 at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa. At 18, he was ordained at Calvary Chapel and worked in the music ministry, did counseling, conducted weddings and funerals, and got married to a woman. As the church began to develop internal problems, Dallas and his wife left for secular jobs.
He got involved in pornography, went to female and male prostitutes, had an affair with a friend’s wife (she got pregnant with Dallas’ child and had an abortion), ended his marriage, started drinking heavily, and had an extended relationship with a man. (Source: online interviews with JD)
In his search for renewed faith, he went to a Metropolitan Community Church (gay-affirming), where he was involved in worship, but not on staff. At the age of 29, Dallas went back to Calvary Chapel, started seeing a Christian counselor, and got interested in Christian counseling as a profession.
Dallas received a Masters in Christian counseling at Vision Christian College near San Diego, a school unaccredited by the U.S. Department of Education (price for this degree is currently $5,400), first intending to work in the field of drug and alcohol rehabilitation. Finding no jobs, he interned at a “little Christian counseling center, which was counseling people who were struggling with homosexuality and with pornography.”
Dallas married his second wife who joined him in ministry work in 1992.
He has had no formal training or degree in the area of human sexuality or therapeutic counseling. He is not licensed by a recognized mental health therapy organization.
A few commentaries before digging into the book, chapter by chapter: most experts in human sexuality recognize a spectrum of natural sexual orientation from homosexuality to heterosexuality, including bisexuality. Though none of us gets to label another person’s sexual identity because it is a personal issue, it is highly problematic, yet simultaneously convenient, when “ex-gays” such as Dallas completely ignore the category of bisexuality (having a natural attraction to men and women).
Conversion to Christianity certainly did transform Dallas’ life of sexual excess and substance abuse. It is far less likely to have altered his innate sexual orientation.
This is the background of the author of “Speaking of Homosexuality.”
Chapter 1 – The Context of Our Conversation. Dallas writes that the context of the conversation between the Traditionalist and Revisionist view is shaped by presumptions, politics, and personal experience.
Dallas clearly states “My position on the wrongness of homosexuality hasn’t budged an inch, nor will it.” He believes his views to be firmly rooted in Christian doctrine. On a positive note, he does well in cautioning readers that there is no “gay lifestyle.”
Dallas states that some Traditionalists have an exaggerated emotional aversion to homosexual acts, commonly called the “ick factor” or “a natural aversion to unnatural behavior.” I often chuckle at the term “unnatural behavior.” What people do with their bodies in mutual and loving relationships, may not be normative in some relationships, but that does not make it “unnatural.” After all, the mouth was made to speak and eat with, yet humans have certainly used the mouth for creative purposes that few of us would label as “unnatural.”
In the realm of politics, Dallas writes, “Some of us see the gay rights movement’s political and social goals as unfair, sometimes even draconian. And whereas many lesbian and gays believe we threaten their sexual and relational freedoms, many of us believe they threaten our freedoms of speech, religion, and conscience.” (p 35) How odd. The desire to gain dignity, fair treatment and equal access to marriage is hardly “draconian.” Attaining those goals does not threaten freedom of speech (people can say whatever they want. In the U.S., the Westboro Baptist Church proves that,) Nor does it threaten to take away the manner in which we express our relationship with God or our personal moral conscience. Equality does however, make it illegal in many venues within the federal government or areas of licensing, to discriminate against anyone, LGBT people included.
A tactic frequently used by people, Dallas included, attempting block LGBT equality, is to incite fear with a threatened loss of “religious liberties.” Clearly, U.S. freedom of speech protections do not apply to a nurse in Ireland, Canadian airwaves, Swedish pastors, or European countries, yet Dallas uses such events as threats that “ominously hint at America’s conceivable near future.” (p 37)
Chapter 2 – To Whom am I Speaking?. Dallas tells his readers to be conscious of the person with whom they are evangelizing, discipling, and reasoning. There are militants – those who accept that homosexuality is normal and view that those who oppose them are “contemptible and should be converted or silenced.” (p 43) These militants “are prone to bullying.”
Characteristically, Dallas cites the ACT UP demonstration in St. Patrick’s Cathedral as one of two examples of militant bullying. Conveniently, he does not mention the date or context of the action. It was 1987, in the midst of the AIDS crisis. Perhaps if 20,436 of your tribe members had died and there had been virtually no Christian response (except from the Metropolitan Community Church) to the crisis, you might understand the need to draw attention to the massive number of deaths and the crisis with demands and a call to action. Dallas calls it bullying.
He goes on to write that “most same-sex-attracted people and their supporters could be described as mainstream” and are not hostile “to us.” “For every Larry Kramer (the ACT UP leader) or Dan Savage(gay talk show host), there’s a homosexual person who’s decent and reasonable.” (p 46) Let’s try this shoe on the other foot. “For every Fred Phelps or Scott Lively, there’s a conservative Christian who’s decent and reasonable.”
Another audience readers need to be aware of is millennials who may not agree with “assumptions about sexuality on which prior generations of Americans were raised haven’t been prevalent in their lives.” (p 47) They likely view homosexuality as normal.
Next, there are Christian Revisionists, as I would be labeled by Dallas. Such people, according to the author, believe the Bible is authoritative yet has been misunderstood on the matter of homosexuality. Finally, there are friends and family members who have a more personal and vested interest in discussions about the intersection of the Bible and sexual orientation.
Chapter 3 – Rules of Engagement. Speak clearly, appropriately, empathetically, concede to what is true (this does not concern doctrine, but is more along the lines of “Christians say hateful things, Christians have been wrong in the past,” and the like). One should recognize and point out diversions (when a Traditionalist talks about homosexuality falling short of God’s design, don’t be diverted by counter “distractions” like LGBT suicide, equality as a civil right, and the high levels of Christians getting divorced).
Chapter 4 -- Born Gay? Dallas presents his four different theories as to why people might be gay; these include: inborn theory, developmental theory (family dynamics and early experiences, like sexual abuse), spiritual (demonic forces), and behavioral choice.
Here may be a good place to make more broad statements about biblical view of human sexuality and historical context. Otherwise, I would need to counter sentences on almost every page written by Dallas.
Dallas anchors his understanding of human sexuality by asserting that “sexual orientation, then (in the 1st century), was known of and written about in Paul’s time.” (p 203) This is categorically an untrue and impossible basis upon which to build a biblical argument against homosexuality and further, to use the Bible as a text to develop an expertise in human sexuality.
While the refutation of Dallas’ position that sexual orientation was known in ancient cultures is long, I lay the groundwork supporting a more historically accurate timeline and a view of Scripture that is inclusive of LGBT Christians in the first ten chapters in my book “Walking the Bridgeless Canyon.”
Simply put, the same-sex behavior presented in the Bible depicts man on boy sex, sexual excess, and/or lust, or in the case of Sodom, rape. In the context of ancient cultures in which the Bible was written, we always see either an age or power differential between the men and his sex partner.
Two people of the same-sex, of equal social status, in mutually loving, consensual, monogamous relationships were not culturally visible until the early 20th century.
The biblical texts referencing same-sex behavior were written to particular audiences in a particular context of time (14th century BC and 1st century AD). No one in the 1st century could have understood the concept of same-sex relationships. Jesus, though certainly the Son of God, operated as a person within His culture and time. He wouldn't have said anything, either for or against, same-sex couples.
Dallas’ certainty that biblical authors understood and were referring to homosexuality leads him to use the Bible as a text on human sexuality, thereby ignoring what is known by human sexuality experts.
When one’s foundational presumptions are deeply flawed, and do not hold up to historical, cultural, medical, psychological and academic scrutiny, the baseline assumptions, and all that is built upon them are highly problematic, if not completely wrong. These denials of fact, context, and history, along with selective abuse of Scripture, results in dangerous advice and counseling practices.
Back to Chapter 4. Throughout the chapter, Dallas ignores current information about human sexuality, again, characteristically, citing 20- and 25-year-old information as a basis for his beliefs. He gives credence, however, to “the possibility of inborn sinful tendencies” that entered humans after The Fall. (p 67) Not only does the Bible not list “human tendencies” that are sinful “after the fall,” it is highly presumptive to create our own list of behaviors we call sinful, or do not like, or situations we cannot explain as “after the fall.” After all, the birth of children came “after the fall,” as did the splitting of humanity into races presented as good in the final celebration depicted in Revelation.
Chapter 5 – The “Change Controversy.” Dallas discusses the closing of Exodus International, and the nationwide movement to ban reparative therapy for minors. As we’ve come to expect, Dallas ignores what experts on human sexuality overwhelmingly agree on – human sexuality exists naturally across a spectrum from heterosexuality to homosexuality. Homosexuality is therefore not a condition in need of fixing.
He believes, as with alcoholism and addictions, homosexuality can be treated and behaviors altered. This is one of the chapters where I could get bogged down in commenting on each suggested pro-gay argument and the Dallas-suggested Traditionalist response. All the responses are predicated on a belief that homosexuality is not within the spectrum of normal and created human sexuality, and therefore, sinful.
Dallas views any non-heterosexual orientation as sinful. Human sexuality experts and “Revisionists” do not agree with him. For those of us who view homosexuality as a natural orientation, it is both possible and quite easy for us to hold both a high view of Scripture and respect what has been historically been discovered about human sexuality. The Bible is not a textbook on human sexuality and should not be used as such. Simply put, incidences of same-sex behavior presented in the Bible depicts man on boy sex, sexual excess, and/or lust, or in the case of Sodom, rape. In ancient cultures, we always see either an age or power differential between the men and his sex partner.
Chapter 6 – Same-Sex Marriage. Unsurprisingly, Dallas says same-sex marriage is a “risk taken for the preferences of a few adults without consideration of the long term effects on children, marriage and society.” (p 88) He calls marriage equality “a recent redefinition of marriage (that) is another downward step.” (p 88) and “an experiment.” (p 89) The legal battles of Prop 8 and in the Supreme Court were the ideal places to cite evidence that extending equal access to the legal contract of marriage between two people of the same sex would damage children, marriage and society. Compelling evidence was not offered. Marriage equality became the federal law.
The studies Dallas offers to show damaging effects on children in same-sex marriages have been dismissed as misrepresented findings, flawed, or skewed by courts of law. Last year, Harvard University assessed all 72 studies conducted on the effects of same-sex marriage on children. Seventy of those studies showed no negative impact. The two studies Dallas presents are the exceptions.
Dallas, when questioning the possible effects of same-sex parenting, writes “if intense lobbying from gay advocacy groups could produce something as profound as change in the American Psychiatric Association’s (APA) diagnostic manual, we have to view their other (and lesser) statements and decisions regarding homosexuality with a certain skepticism.” (p 94) I cover this APA decision-making process to drop the designation of mental illness from homosexuality over a long period from 1955 to 1973 in Chapter 4 of my book WTBC.
It is a gross exaggeration to label that process as “intense lobbying.” It was basically four or five activists, along with some deeply closeted gay therapists inside the APA, who simultaneously and separately pressured the APA to recognize and act on research first presented in 1956 that revealed those with a homosexual orientation were therapeutically undifferentiated from heterosexuals. When that research was buried and later uncovered in 1972, the small group of activists demanded that the APA listen to them and take action to remove the designation of mental illness off homosexuality.
Again, Dallas uses comments from gay activists out of context and conveniently neglects to place those comments in a time frame. Words spoken in 1993 appear as if they are opinions of activists today. Dallas does this in his other books as well. It is a well established pattern of his writings.
One section of this chapter on same-sex marriage gave me quite a chuckle. Dallas postulates the “usual” pattern of gay married couples is “open marriages.” “Heterosexual husbands, take a cue from non-monogamous gay men (that) open marriage can be fun.” (p 99) Heterosexuals are doing quite “well” on their own with respects to infidelity. According to recent studies 23% of husbands and 19% of wives in heterosexual marriages are unfaithful. I don’t think the gays made them do it.
Chapter 7 – Homophobia, Hate, Hypocrisy, and Harm. Dallas spends too much time parsing the word “homophobia” as REALLY meaning a psychological fear. His defense that conservative Christians are not “phobic” is meaningless and quite silly. Though the word may not be true to its Latin roots, overtime, it has come to mean a dislike or prejudice against gay people. And yes, that dislike and prejudice is real.
Dallas also builds the case that Traditionalists are not “haters” and should resist the title. Personally, when I speak, write or present, I never use the terms “haters” or “homophobics.” I think I can confidently say the same of others who engage in these dialogues in higher levels especially in Christian circles.
Chapter 8 – Gay Christians, Chapter 9 – Sodom, Chapter 10 – Homosexuality and Leviticus, Chapter 11 – What Jesus Did and Didn’t Say, Chapter 12 – Paul and Romans, Chapter 13 – Paul and Arsenokoites. “To practice homosexuality is to behave outside clearly prescribed, God-given boundaries. That can’t be right, and if a Christian is limited by right living, then gay and Christian are incompatible.” (p 125)
Again, when one’s foundational presumptions are deeply flawed, and do not hold up to historical, cultural, medical, psychological and academic scrutiny, the baseline assumptions and biblical interpretations that are built upon them are highly problematic, if not completely wrong.
(Continued on my blog or on Amazon.)
February 16, 2018
Truly this book has done so much for me. This semester at University I’ve been confronted with so many opinions and controversial values that I needed clarity. This book provided that clarity so that I feel more comfortable expressing my values in a way that is kind and clear.
The writing of this book is clear and well articulated. The discussion and writing of the book aren’t weighed down with jargon. The flow is smooth and the summaries at the end of most chapters provide a succinct closing.
I would highly recommend this book to people questioning what the Bible says, to those who don’t know how to articulate their beliefs well, to those (like me) scared of confrontation, and to those seeking truth.
The writing of this book is clear and well articulated. The discussion and writing of the book aren’t weighed down with jargon. The flow is smooth and the summaries at the end of most chapters provide a succinct closing.
I would highly recommend this book to people questioning what the Bible says, to those who don’t know how to articulate their beliefs well, to those (like me) scared of confrontation, and to those seeking truth.
June 10, 2017
One of the best I've read on the subject
October 26, 2016
Rating – Must Read
Level – Medium length, reads quickly and easily
Summary
The book, as the title indicates, is about homosexuality in the church and the world today. Dallas covers a large swath of the topic, from how to talk to people about it, to Greek meanings, to modern views. Broken into 13 chapters plus an intro and a conclusion (which is actually chapter 14), the book is four main points.
Chapters 1-3 (The Context of Our Conversation, To Whom Am I Speaking, Rules of Engagement) are the first point of the book, mainly how does the modern world view homosexuality? Who talks about it and how do we talk to them?
The next section, chapters 4 & 5 (Born Gay?, The “Change” Controversy) get into some of the biological and psychological aspects of homosexuality. There is also the issue of counseling and ‘therapy’ for homosexuals in the secular and church settings.
I grouped chapters 6-8 (Same-Sex Marriage; Homophobia, Hate, Hypocrisy, and Harm; Gay Christians) together, but they aren’t all that similar to each other. Chapter 6 is fairly self explanatory, chapter 7 deals with the responses or charges to the responses of Christians, and chapter 8 he gives us his thoughts on people who refer to themselves as Gay Christians.
The final section is the longest because it is basically, ‘What does the Bible say.’ Encompassing chapters 9-13 (Sodom, Homosexuality and Leviticus, What Jesus Did or Did Not Say, Paul and Romans, Paul and Arsenokoites), Dallas takes us through the Bible, including both Hebrew and Greek, the different interpretations today and throughout church history, covering every conceivable verse or story related to homosexuality.
Additionally, there are two helpful aspects about the way in which this book is written. First and probably most important, Dallas has written it like a conversation. He lays out and issue, then states what the ‘Revisionist’ claim, followed by the ‘Traditionalist’ responses. So, broadly speaking, something like – They say X, we respond Y and Z.
Second, he has a 10-point review at the end of each chapter that quickly summarizes the arguments of the chapter. This is a helpful reminded if you need to check back in the book. Or honestly, if you are not much of a reader, you could just read the points and then jump in deeper if something strikes you.
My Thoughts
I’ll be honest, I was skeptical of this book at first. Not entirely sure why. Maybe because of the reviews in the front cover. They were mostly from musicians or people I whose names I didn’t recognize. However, I was very impressed with this book. For one thing Dallas is a great writer. He is extremely, extremely accessible. Just about anyone of any reading level could glide through this book. He has almost a journalistic style, like a long form article in a magazine or a narrative non-fiction report.
This point leads me to what is certainly the strength of the book. The final 75 or so pages (excluding the conclusion) are all from the Bible. As a mentioned above, he goes pretty deep, especially in the Greek (I loved the pronunciation guide listed with each word). These five chapters are theologically and Biblically strong. For a big this size (~230 pages) there is a lot of deep and serious inquiry into Scriptures. I was very impressed.
To circle back to the beginning, this book is also a great help to those whom are angry or feel ‘Christians are losing’ something. Or even people whom don’t know how to engage. It’s an important reminder of how to act, really.
I disagree with his take on the impact of gay marriage on society and I’m skeptical of some grand conspiracy as opposed to a few antagonistic people. However, that was something interesting while reading this book – I found myself disagree at times, but I would alternate from viewing things more liberally at some points and more conservatively at others.
Overall, this is a must read of Christians today who do not know what to do with the issue. Or, even for those who do know what to thing, this book is an invaluable resource on how to engage with others and the Scripture. This is a book that probably every pastor or person in full time ministry should own.
*I received copy of this book in exchange for an honest review, thank you Baker Books. Read more about that here.
More Reviews at https://mondaymorningtheologian.com/
Level – Medium length, reads quickly and easily
Summary
The book, as the title indicates, is about homosexuality in the church and the world today. Dallas covers a large swath of the topic, from how to talk to people about it, to Greek meanings, to modern views. Broken into 13 chapters plus an intro and a conclusion (which is actually chapter 14), the book is four main points.
Chapters 1-3 (The Context of Our Conversation, To Whom Am I Speaking, Rules of Engagement) are the first point of the book, mainly how does the modern world view homosexuality? Who talks about it and how do we talk to them?
The next section, chapters 4 & 5 (Born Gay?, The “Change” Controversy) get into some of the biological and psychological aspects of homosexuality. There is also the issue of counseling and ‘therapy’ for homosexuals in the secular and church settings.
I grouped chapters 6-8 (Same-Sex Marriage; Homophobia, Hate, Hypocrisy, and Harm; Gay Christians) together, but they aren’t all that similar to each other. Chapter 6 is fairly self explanatory, chapter 7 deals with the responses or charges to the responses of Christians, and chapter 8 he gives us his thoughts on people who refer to themselves as Gay Christians.
The final section is the longest because it is basically, ‘What does the Bible say.’ Encompassing chapters 9-13 (Sodom, Homosexuality and Leviticus, What Jesus Did or Did Not Say, Paul and Romans, Paul and Arsenokoites), Dallas takes us through the Bible, including both Hebrew and Greek, the different interpretations today and throughout church history, covering every conceivable verse or story related to homosexuality.
Additionally, there are two helpful aspects about the way in which this book is written. First and probably most important, Dallas has written it like a conversation. He lays out and issue, then states what the ‘Revisionist’ claim, followed by the ‘Traditionalist’ responses. So, broadly speaking, something like – They say X, we respond Y and Z.
Second, he has a 10-point review at the end of each chapter that quickly summarizes the arguments of the chapter. This is a helpful reminded if you need to check back in the book. Or honestly, if you are not much of a reader, you could just read the points and then jump in deeper if something strikes you.
My Thoughts
I’ll be honest, I was skeptical of this book at first. Not entirely sure why. Maybe because of the reviews in the front cover. They were mostly from musicians or people I whose names I didn’t recognize. However, I was very impressed with this book. For one thing Dallas is a great writer. He is extremely, extremely accessible. Just about anyone of any reading level could glide through this book. He has almost a journalistic style, like a long form article in a magazine or a narrative non-fiction report.
This point leads me to what is certainly the strength of the book. The final 75 or so pages (excluding the conclusion) are all from the Bible. As a mentioned above, he goes pretty deep, especially in the Greek (I loved the pronunciation guide listed with each word). These five chapters are theologically and Biblically strong. For a big this size (~230 pages) there is a lot of deep and serious inquiry into Scriptures. I was very impressed.
To circle back to the beginning, this book is also a great help to those whom are angry or feel ‘Christians are losing’ something. Or even people whom don’t know how to engage. It’s an important reminder of how to act, really.
I disagree with his take on the impact of gay marriage on society and I’m skeptical of some grand conspiracy as opposed to a few antagonistic people. However, that was something interesting while reading this book – I found myself disagree at times, but I would alternate from viewing things more liberally at some points and more conservatively at others.
Overall, this is a must read of Christians today who do not know what to do with the issue. Or, even for those who do know what to thing, this book is an invaluable resource on how to engage with others and the Scripture. This is a book that probably every pastor or person in full time ministry should own.
*I received copy of this book in exchange for an honest review, thank you Baker Books. Read more about that here.
More Reviews at https://mondaymorningtheologian.com/
November 29, 2016
Joe Dallas brings light to sometimes dark subject in a Christian's eyes. The book really does discuss the issues with kindness and clarity. I had some thoughts and ideas confirmed; some debunked and I learned others.
Dallas writes fluidly and is able to bring clarity to the discussion where there often is none. Not the least because of Christians.
A good book to read as a primer. Lots of resources, both pro and con. Enough for study and reading until the cows come home as it were.
Dallas writes fluidly and is able to bring clarity to the discussion where there often is none. Not the least because of Christians.
A good book to read as a primer. Lots of resources, both pro and con. Enough for study and reading until the cows come home as it were.
May 20, 2017
As a gay man and a progressive Evangelical and pentecostal Christian, I did not agree with the viewpoint represented in this book. I will say, however, that he is fairly irenic in tone, and he makes several good points regarding what it means to have a traditional view of homosexuality in contemporary American culture (I'm from Canada). To my eye, he is never intentionally unkind, nor homophobic (I do not believe that just because someone has a traditional view, they are homophobic). This book is a useful read if one is looking for one clear statement about what Evangelical conservatives are saying in the wake of the SCOTUS decision. Though I wonder if his evidence is highly selective, Dallas argues at key points based on evidence--and I think this is a good start. After all, the Apostle Paul writes in Romans 14, "Love does no harm to its neighbour." To assess harm, we need rigourous evaluation of evidence in the lives of real people.
For these considerable strengths, I still hear a great deal of cognitive distortion common to the Evangelicals of my upbringing. I am not convinced that his grasp of logical argument is as good as he supposes--though he does point out several kinds of inclusive arguments that are clearly fallacious. He also wants to argue that the ethical nonmonogamy often present in queer male communities is what will destroy marriage, not homosexuality itself. Though it is clear that many advocates of equal marriage also believe this is the direction society must go, Dallas presents it as a slippery slope, an allegedly clear violation of Scriptural teaching (which always astonishes me). Though many Christians may want to argue that plural relationships in all forms are destructive, let's actually have the argument, based on evidence and clear ethical norms.
At other places, his argument seems inconsistent given his own convictions about Scripture and Christian teaching. For example, he believes that if the Roman Centurion's pais was his lover, that this would imply that Christ approved of an abusive relationship (based on the age difference and the power differential--he believes that the slave was probably 13, and the soldier between 18-30). Clearly, in our culture, if the older one was a legal adult, this relationship is highly problematic. But Dallas doesn't seem to realise that this same criticism applies to the relationship between his own mother (likely a young teen girl) and her husband Joseph, who was old enough to work his own trade, and was therefore probably at least 30). Of course children and teens should always be protected from abuse and inappropriate power at all times. But Dallas does not seem to realise that different cultures, because they have different conceptions of the life-cycle and adulthood, construe abuse and harm differently than does our own. This may reinforce the idea that gay men are more likely to sexually assault children, something which mainstream psychological research does not support.
Overall, though this book is clear and irenic, I think it is weak overall, relying on scholars (especially Robert AJ Gagnon) who are not balanced or kind in their assessment of 'revisionist' arguments. Sometimes I was left with the impression that Dallas (inadvertently) did not deal with the strongest arguments of the inclusive Christian perspective. He also seems to believe that one's salvation is at stake, simply for making a mistake of interpretation and living accordingly. I do believe that Christians can disagree over the morality of same-gendersex relationships without being in danger of being cut off from the people. Perhaps if we got it settled that Jesus will still sort us out in spite of our mistakes and sins, Christians would be able to have more generous, rigourous, and candid conversations about a whole range of controversial issues--but especially this one.
For these considerable strengths, I still hear a great deal of cognitive distortion common to the Evangelicals of my upbringing. I am not convinced that his grasp of logical argument is as good as he supposes--though he does point out several kinds of inclusive arguments that are clearly fallacious. He also wants to argue that the ethical nonmonogamy often present in queer male communities is what will destroy marriage, not homosexuality itself. Though it is clear that many advocates of equal marriage also believe this is the direction society must go, Dallas presents it as a slippery slope, an allegedly clear violation of Scriptural teaching (which always astonishes me). Though many Christians may want to argue that plural relationships in all forms are destructive, let's actually have the argument, based on evidence and clear ethical norms.
At other places, his argument seems inconsistent given his own convictions about Scripture and Christian teaching. For example, he believes that if the Roman Centurion's pais was his lover, that this would imply that Christ approved of an abusive relationship (based on the age difference and the power differential--he believes that the slave was probably 13, and the soldier between 18-30). Clearly, in our culture, if the older one was a legal adult, this relationship is highly problematic. But Dallas doesn't seem to realise that this same criticism applies to the relationship between his own mother (likely a young teen girl) and her husband Joseph, who was old enough to work his own trade, and was therefore probably at least 30). Of course children and teens should always be protected from abuse and inappropriate power at all times. But Dallas does not seem to realise that different cultures, because they have different conceptions of the life-cycle and adulthood, construe abuse and harm differently than does our own. This may reinforce the idea that gay men are more likely to sexually assault children, something which mainstream psychological research does not support.
Overall, though this book is clear and irenic, I think it is weak overall, relying on scholars (especially Robert AJ Gagnon) who are not balanced or kind in their assessment of 'revisionist' arguments. Sometimes I was left with the impression that Dallas (inadvertently) did not deal with the strongest arguments of the inclusive Christian perspective. He also seems to believe that one's salvation is at stake, simply for making a mistake of interpretation and living accordingly. I do believe that Christians can disagree over the morality of same-gendersex relationships without being in danger of being cut off from the people. Perhaps if we got it settled that Jesus will still sort us out in spite of our mistakes and sins, Christians would be able to have more generous, rigourous, and candid conversations about a whole range of controversial issues--but especially this one.
August 25, 2025
An apologetics guide designed for those who would understand themselves in terms of "Side B" in recent discussions in Christianity regarding same sex sexual relationships.
For those who may not be aware: Side A are those who are fully affirming of same sex people and relationships; Side X are those who condemn not only same sex sexual relationships but any form of same sex temptation or desire. Side B are those who would not inherently condemn someone who experiences same sex sexual temptation but still condemn same sex sexual behavior as sinful.
The primary antagonists are the "Revisionists," as the author frames them: those who have made the case for Side A. There's not much said about Side X at all. These terms (Side A B X), for that matter, never show up in the book at all. The author presumes himself a "Traditionalist" among "traditionalists," even though there remains the Side B vs. X division among "traditionalists."
I have no quarrel with many of the author's arguments as they relate to what is going on in the Biblical text, although I must critique the author's insufficient covenant distinctiveness in the way he would attempt to apply Leviticus to the covenant between all people and Christ.
But I knew I was in for it when the author spoke of the presumed agreement about the reaction to things like the Obergefell SCOTUS case as something "hated." And the presumption societal acceptance/toleration of same sex sexual relationships necessarily demands a degradation of all marriage relationships...as if "heterosexual" indiscretions had not already made a societal mockery thereof.
There's a lot of antagonism and defensiveness about the issue manifest throughout the work which may not be the most helpful or productive. As a work of apologetics, it's understandable why the author would want to rebut claims about "homophobia," but there do remain a lot of people whose animus toward people practicing same sex sexual behaviors seems rooted in a fear of the behavior or its believed spread. And nothing, of course, is said about those who have so viscerally spoken against same sex sexual behaviors only to be caught having committed some of those deeds themselves.
The author does present the apologetics case for Side B generally as would be expected from a "traditionalist" perspective. But I lament how the author never seems to question, challenge, or critique the sexual behavior as sexual identity framework we have all inherited from our Victorian ancestors, and throughout presumes people "are" homosexuals, heterosexuals, etc., as opposed to people who act on various sexual desires.
In the end, "Speaking of Homosexuality" will not provide that much help in attempting to well discuss same sex sexual behavior and the instruction of the New Testament in our current social and cultural moment.
For those who may not be aware: Side A are those who are fully affirming of same sex people and relationships; Side X are those who condemn not only same sex sexual relationships but any form of same sex temptation or desire. Side B are those who would not inherently condemn someone who experiences same sex sexual temptation but still condemn same sex sexual behavior as sinful.
The primary antagonists are the "Revisionists," as the author frames them: those who have made the case for Side A. There's not much said about Side X at all. These terms (Side A B X), for that matter, never show up in the book at all. The author presumes himself a "Traditionalist" among "traditionalists," even though there remains the Side B vs. X division among "traditionalists."
I have no quarrel with many of the author's arguments as they relate to what is going on in the Biblical text, although I must critique the author's insufficient covenant distinctiveness in the way he would attempt to apply Leviticus to the covenant between all people and Christ.
But I knew I was in for it when the author spoke of the presumed agreement about the reaction to things like the Obergefell SCOTUS case as something "hated." And the presumption societal acceptance/toleration of same sex sexual relationships necessarily demands a degradation of all marriage relationships...as if "heterosexual" indiscretions had not already made a societal mockery thereof.
There's a lot of antagonism and defensiveness about the issue manifest throughout the work which may not be the most helpful or productive. As a work of apologetics, it's understandable why the author would want to rebut claims about "homophobia," but there do remain a lot of people whose animus toward people practicing same sex sexual behaviors seems rooted in a fear of the behavior or its believed spread. And nothing, of course, is said about those who have so viscerally spoken against same sex sexual behaviors only to be caught having committed some of those deeds themselves.
The author does present the apologetics case for Side B generally as would be expected from a "traditionalist" perspective. But I lament how the author never seems to question, challenge, or critique the sexual behavior as sexual identity framework we have all inherited from our Victorian ancestors, and throughout presumes people "are" homosexuals, heterosexuals, etc., as opposed to people who act on various sexual desires.
In the end, "Speaking of Homosexuality" will not provide that much help in attempting to well discuss same sex sexual behavior and the instruction of the New Testament in our current social and cultural moment.
October 26, 2020
This book covers one of the most controversial issues in the church/religious life and views of today - the issue of homosexuality. The subject is heavy, enormous and broad, as it concerns people; a very hot potato to hold. How we, Christians, address this issue and its aspects?
Now, I am a practicing Catholic (fully respecting the Church teachings) living in the EU. I have several gay people in my life (friends and acquaintances) and even without them, this topic fairly often enters a discussion. So it is always good to have some reading material to broaden my horizons!
This is a polemical book, aiming to give the respectful arguments from the "traditional" Church stance (which is also my standing ground).
The chapters cover issues like:
Are people born gay?
Sexual orientation cannot be changed.
Same sex marriage and the Bible.
Homophobia, Hate, Hypocrisy, and Harm
Can someone be gay and Christian?
What was Sodom's sin?
Homosexuality and Leviticus
Jesus and Homosexuality
Paul and Romans
Paul and arsenokoites
Well, while I find the answers being interesting and valid (some little exceptions apply), I also think some burning questions are not addressed (but again, the topic is enormous and it is the author's choice to cover the issues he considers interesting/needed).
I myself would like to see some life aspects, like the celibate Christians with the homosexual inclinations discussing the realities of living the celibate life.
I find this being a fair addition to the discussion. And I think this point will stay with me the most - the fairness. As I believe in the fair discussion, it is good to try to see the other side while remaining firmly and respectively standing on your grounds and convictions.
Doctrinally, this was an interesting read, but I think it will apply to the Evangelical environment more.
From the Catholic viewpoint, I have found Eve Tushnet, a celibate lesbian authoress, covering some good discussion points.
Now, I am a practicing Catholic (fully respecting the Church teachings) living in the EU. I have several gay people in my life (friends and acquaintances) and even without them, this topic fairly often enters a discussion. So it is always good to have some reading material to broaden my horizons!
This is a polemical book, aiming to give the respectful arguments from the "traditional" Church stance (which is also my standing ground).
The chapters cover issues like:
Are people born gay?
Sexual orientation cannot be changed.
Same sex marriage and the Bible.
Homophobia, Hate, Hypocrisy, and Harm
Can someone be gay and Christian?
What was Sodom's sin?
Homosexuality and Leviticus
Jesus and Homosexuality
Paul and Romans
Paul and arsenokoites
Well, while I find the answers being interesting and valid (some little exceptions apply), I also think some burning questions are not addressed (but again, the topic is enormous and it is the author's choice to cover the issues he considers interesting/needed).
I myself would like to see some life aspects, like the celibate Christians with the homosexual inclinations discussing the realities of living the celibate life.
I find this being a fair addition to the discussion. And I think this point will stay with me the most - the fairness. As I believe in the fair discussion, it is good to try to see the other side while remaining firmly and respectively standing on your grounds and convictions.
Doctrinally, this was an interesting read, but I think it will apply to the Evangelical environment more.
From the Catholic viewpoint, I have found Eve Tushnet, a celibate lesbian authoress, covering some good discussion points.
September 16, 2017
I'm a non practicing christian and part of the problem I have with churches and christian's is the blatant bigotry and judgmental nature of their brand of Christianity. Luckily this book takes a much needed step back from hardline Christian views and treats the issue with more compassion than most. I don't agree with all of the ideas Dallas presents but the fact that he isn't calling for the stoning of gay people is a step forward right?
April 7, 2022
Biblical, practical, and helpful. Dallas clearly speaks from a ton of valuable experience and research. I love his emphasis on considering people’s context and acknowledging complexity, yet being logically sound and rationally oriented on the various issues themselves.
April 13, 2018
Written by someone who did engage in same sex activity for years, I was very impressed. The important elements to me that I saw in this book were he was respectfully and it was well researched.
June 11, 2022
Excellent book!!! Quick and intelligent read.
November 18, 2016
Not quite what I was hoping for in this book.
As a former crisis & school social working dealing with GLBT? clients I was hoping to get more information on the fast approaching but improving controversial subject.
Warning: This book is for adults only & contains extreme violent or graphic adult content or profanity &/or sexually explicit scenarios. It may be offensive to some readers.
I did not receive any type of compensation for reading & reviewing this book. While I receive free books from publishers & authors, I am under no obligation to write a positive review. Only an honest one.
A very awesome book cover, great font & writing style. A very well written book. It was very easy for me to read/follow from start/finish & never a dull moment. There were no grammar/typo errors, nor any repetitive or out of line sequence sentences. Lots of exciting scenarios, with several twists/turns & a great set of unique characters to keep track of. This could also make another great GLBT? movie, PP presentation, or better yet a mini TV series. That said I will only rate it at 4/5 stars.
Thank you for the free Goodreads; MakingConnections; Baker Books; paperback book
Tony Parsons MSW (Washburn)
As a former crisis & school social working dealing with GLBT? clients I was hoping to get more information on the fast approaching but improving controversial subject.
Warning: This book is for adults only & contains extreme violent or graphic adult content or profanity &/or sexually explicit scenarios. It may be offensive to some readers.
I did not receive any type of compensation for reading & reviewing this book. While I receive free books from publishers & authors, I am under no obligation to write a positive review. Only an honest one.
A very awesome book cover, great font & writing style. A very well written book. It was very easy for me to read/follow from start/finish & never a dull moment. There were no grammar/typo errors, nor any repetitive or out of line sequence sentences. Lots of exciting scenarios, with several twists/turns & a great set of unique characters to keep track of. This could also make another great GLBT? movie, PP presentation, or better yet a mini TV series. That said I will only rate it at 4/5 stars.
Thank you for the free Goodreads; MakingConnections; Baker Books; paperback book
Tony Parsons MSW (Washburn)
April 12, 2017
****First off, I must disclose that I won this book in a goodreads giveaway; this has no bearing on the rating****
Speaking of Homosexuality is written by Joe Dallas, who was once a gay activist, and who is, quite obviously, not that anymore. The little blurb under the title, "Discussing the Issues with Kindness & Clarity," is appropriate. I think the topic of homosexuality, which can create a firestorm, is handled very well in this book.
The book is a great way to be more equipped and to understand both sides of the issue. In a world where truth is becoming optional or all about one's opinion on truth, it is important - no, vital - to understand what the Bible really says on a matter, and that is exactly what Speaking of Homosexuality accomplishes. So many people are so confused and so deceived, and, for those struggling with homosexuality or those who are close to others who do struggle with it, I think this book would be very beneficial. I definitely learned things I didn't know and came away with a deeper understanding.
The one thing I do stress is that this is not a book for younger readers, because it does detail certain things to make specific points. The very last chapter is excellent.
Speaking of Homosexuality is written by Joe Dallas, who was once a gay activist, and who is, quite obviously, not that anymore. The little blurb under the title, "Discussing the Issues with Kindness & Clarity," is appropriate. I think the topic of homosexuality, which can create a firestorm, is handled very well in this book.
The book is a great way to be more equipped and to understand both sides of the issue. In a world where truth is becoming optional or all about one's opinion on truth, it is important - no, vital - to understand what the Bible really says on a matter, and that is exactly what Speaking of Homosexuality accomplishes. So many people are so confused and so deceived, and, for those struggling with homosexuality or those who are close to others who do struggle with it, I think this book would be very beneficial. I definitely learned things I didn't know and came away with a deeper understanding.
The one thing I do stress is that this is not a book for younger readers, because it does detail certain things to make specific points. The very last chapter is excellent.
April 22, 2017
I recently had the opportunity to read this book along with half a dozen others related to the subject. While this book covered much of the same ground (questions such as, Are people born gay?, and the various biblical texts), it still manages to distinguish itself in terms of its format and the author’s background. As to format, in chapter by chapter Dallas sets out the traditional position, then the opposing positions, offering responses to each one. Thus Dallas keeps his first “rule of engagement” admirably: speak clearly. As to the author’s background, Dallas was once a gay activist himself, and thus brings a unique vantage point to the questions. Finally, I would say that this book is very up to date. Dallas is aware of positions that I didn’t come across in any of the other books, and he interacts with the latest sources. This book accomplished for me both of Dallas’s twofold goal: it helped me better understand the arguments and has better equipped me to know how to respond to them.
September 13, 2017
4.5
I really enjoyed this book. It really helps inform you on all the arguments for Same sex relations. Then he gives great Biblical counters.
Helping you re-enforce your Biblical stance on homosexuality, and defending the truth as you stand opposed to the Culture. He also helps you know how to be more compassionate and Gentle to those who struggle in this way.
I really enjoyed this book. It really helps inform you on all the arguments for Same sex relations. Then he gives great Biblical counters.
Helping you re-enforce your Biblical stance on homosexuality, and defending the truth as you stand opposed to the Culture. He also helps you know how to be more compassionate and Gentle to those who struggle in this way.
October 23, 2017
A clear and good book about the traditional view of homosexuality
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