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Brave Souls: Experiencing the Audacious Power of Empathy
What if empathy could save us?
Belinda Bauman was living a comfortable life as a wife, mother, and nonprofit leader—but her soul was checked out. Then she met Esperance. An assault survivor living in one of the poorest, most dangerous countries in the world, Esperance and other Congolese women shared their harrowing stories with Belinda. Their vulnerability set Belinda on a path of embracing empathy. If Esperance could love in the face of so much pain, maybe there is hope for the world too.
From the top of Mount Kilimanjaro to the borders of war-torn Syria, Belinda takes readers along her journey to empathy. With cutting-edge neuroscience, biblical parables, and stories of brave women from across the globe, she offers readers direction for seeing others' perspectives, listening well, and redeeming conflict. She casts a vision for lives and communities transformed by everyday Christians practicing empathy as a spiritual discipline.
Join Belinda on a journey to be brave—and see your world changed.
Belinda Bauman was living a comfortable life as a wife, mother, and nonprofit leader—but her soul was checked out. Then she met Esperance. An assault survivor living in one of the poorest, most dangerous countries in the world, Esperance and other Congolese women shared their harrowing stories with Belinda. Their vulnerability set Belinda on a path of embracing empathy. If Esperance could love in the face of so much pain, maybe there is hope for the world too.
From the top of Mount Kilimanjaro to the borders of war-torn Syria, Belinda takes readers along her journey to empathy. With cutting-edge neuroscience, biblical parables, and stories of brave women from across the globe, she offers readers direction for seeing others' perspectives, listening well, and redeeming conflict. She casts a vision for lives and communities transformed by everyday Christians practicing empathy as a spiritual discipline.
Join Belinda on a journey to be brave—and see your world changed.
224 pages, Hardcover
Published April 2, 2019
12 people are currently reading
1032 people want to read
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Displaying 1 - 29 of 29 reviews
April 2, 2019
After reading this book, I now look at The Golden Rule much differently. The Golden Rule is quite universal, most of us have been encouraged and taught to live by it, and yet, is that the best way to live? What if you and the other party or group do not share the same values or societal norms? That is where empathy, audacious empathy, enters the picture.
Choosing the less traveled road of empathy can transform you, your relationships, your testimony and yes, your world. Choose empathy to connect with, know and care about others. Practice empathy to ease someone’s burdens, to be less afraid, to hate and seek revenge less. Practicing audacious empathy is life changing.
Empathy, through God’s design, is part of us. It is a skill which can be developed and must be practiced each and every day. God chose to imprint each of us with empathy so that we can transform our world, one relationship at a time. We need to see, feel and act. However, before we can do those things, we must first listen deeply. Deep listening can lead to healing. How awesome is that?
I loved learning about brave listening. We can learn to really listen to others, and validate their feelings and thoughts, even and especially those we don’t agree with. To love others, we must listen to them.
Empathy is a much needed skill that we all must learn and develop. Our very world is depending on it. This book will help you to begin working on the skills of empathy. You will be guided through perspective-taking, empathetic listening and peacemaking. Read this book and allow yourself to experience the transforming power of empathy. This book touched my heart and spoke into my soul.
I received a complimentary copy of this book from IVP Books through NetGalley. Opinions expressed in this review are completely my own.
Choosing the less traveled road of empathy can transform you, your relationships, your testimony and yes, your world. Choose empathy to connect with, know and care about others. Practice empathy to ease someone’s burdens, to be less afraid, to hate and seek revenge less. Practicing audacious empathy is life changing.
Empathy, through God’s design, is part of us. It is a skill which can be developed and must be practiced each and every day. God chose to imprint each of us with empathy so that we can transform our world, one relationship at a time. We need to see, feel and act. However, before we can do those things, we must first listen deeply. Deep listening can lead to healing. How awesome is that?
I loved learning about brave listening. We can learn to really listen to others, and validate their feelings and thoughts, even and especially those we don’t agree with. To love others, we must listen to them.
Empathy is a much needed skill that we all must learn and develop. Our very world is depending on it. This book will help you to begin working on the skills of empathy. You will be guided through perspective-taking, empathetic listening and peacemaking. Read this book and allow yourself to experience the transforming power of empathy. This book touched my heart and spoke into my soul.
I received a complimentary copy of this book from IVP Books through NetGalley. Opinions expressed in this review are completely my own.
April 2, 2019
Bauman is not only a gifted story teller: she's a prophet. She argues that one of the key elements we're lacking in today's culture is empathy. Far too often, we assume we know and understand what others are thinking and feeling. The problem is, we don't. Not really.
In Belinda's words, "We are subtly—and sometimes not so subtly—ignoring each other’s perspectives, circumstances, and needs. Instead of seeking to understand, we quietly pronounce judgment, stoking a simmering anger. Or we smile civilly, nodding our head, feeding the isolation among us. What are we missing? Maybe we’re missing each other. The world has settled for competition instead of compassion, civility instead of love, transaction instead of community."
By articulating what empathy looks like and helping readers to understand how it helps us to love, Bauman motivates us to want to become more empathetic. If we get this, it would be a game changer. (I received a fee copy of this book from IVP in exchange for an honest review.)
In Belinda's words, "We are subtly—and sometimes not so subtly—ignoring each other’s perspectives, circumstances, and needs. Instead of seeking to understand, we quietly pronounce judgment, stoking a simmering anger. Or we smile civilly, nodding our head, feeding the isolation among us. What are we missing? Maybe we’re missing each other. The world has settled for competition instead of compassion, civility instead of love, transaction instead of community."
By articulating what empathy looks like and helping readers to understand how it helps us to love, Bauman motivates us to want to become more empathetic. If we get this, it would be a game changer. (I received a fee copy of this book from IVP in exchange for an honest review.)
January 21, 2019
In a world of chaos and social crisis, Brave Souls by Belinda Bauman is a breath of fresh air and filled with spiritual truths. Throughout various stories, quotes from Christian and secular sources, Bauman effectively shows the world's desperate need for empathy. Bauman includes practical hands-on application tactics that encourage readers to take an inside look at their own listening skills, assess their own skills with empathy, communication, and perspective taking.
Overall, there is a beautiful sense of understanding, gentleness, and love throughout this book. It's a book worthy of being shared, pondered over, and discussed with those of us seeking to help heal a broken world. I highly recommend it.
Overall, there is a beautiful sense of understanding, gentleness, and love throughout this book. It's a book worthy of being shared, pondered over, and discussed with those of us seeking to help heal a broken world. I highly recommend it.
April 8, 2019
Brave Souls is a mountain we all need to climb, with lessons on listening and conversations on privilege and responsibility to be savored along the way. While Belinda seamlessly blends personal experience and expert voices, her education credentials shine as she creates a curriculum for empathy, providing a roadmap from what often prohibits empathy to how and why empathy is the essential destination for each for us. In 2016, I spent almost a week traipsing behind Belinda as we climbed Mt. Kilimanjaro, and following her lead again through Brave Souls only cements my view of her as a visionary, compassionate leader whose goal is to change the world. With this book, she just might.
March 22, 2019
The depth of love I have for the woman who wrote this book is endless. The book itself is so important. SO IMPORTANT. If the pursuit of power at the expense of humanity is the root of our problems, collective empathy will be the solution. Belinda does a beautiful job of laying out the what and how--the information is hard to read because of the content and because it's like trying to drink out of a fire hydrant. Everyone should read this book.
April 16, 2019
While I wish she would have dig deeper into fewer ideas, I’m left with a profound call to practice empathy - for this might just be the only way forward.
April 14, 2019
How can you stay in your comfortable, apathetic, Christian life after reading Brave Souls? You canNOT! You can't afford to. True empathy is holiness embodied - Jesus' hands and feet in a real and deeply profound way. This is bigger than compassion - it's "listening into" someones story with the express purpose of listening and knowing. It is holy ground.
I knew reading this book would be hard - but I also knew I needed to read this book. I knew my heart needed an overhaul - I too, have fallen victim to compassion burnout. I cannot go back to status quo after this - it just won't do. Belinda has hit it out of the park - No - she's hit it out of the sanctuary. Pew sitting will no longer be an option when the invitation is given and accepted - it's "an invitation that carries with it THICK GRACE, the kind that surprises you with its strength -- we connect with others in ways we may have considered impossible." And, again, it is holy ground.
Sandi Floria
Host - Compassion Radio
I knew reading this book would be hard - but I also knew I needed to read this book. I knew my heart needed an overhaul - I too, have fallen victim to compassion burnout. I cannot go back to status quo after this - it just won't do. Belinda has hit it out of the park - No - she's hit it out of the sanctuary. Pew sitting will no longer be an option when the invitation is given and accepted - it's "an invitation that carries with it THICK GRACE, the kind that surprises you with its strength -- we connect with others in ways we may have considered impossible." And, again, it is holy ground.
Sandi Floria
Host - Compassion Radio
March 1, 2019
A hard hitting book. Though Belinda’s heart, and thus the focus of this book, is on the pain and suffering and heartbreak of women, how much more potential her lessons of empathy hold!
Empathy is a spiritual discipline that requires cultivation, and when practiced will be pure worship of our Father and a powerful form of love in a broken world. James 1:27
“We all need the hope that someone will come looking for us when we are missing.” Is that so much to ask? Lift your head up, notice your fellow man.
Empathy is a spiritual discipline that requires cultivation, and when practiced will be pure worship of our Father and a powerful form of love in a broken world. James 1:27
“We all need the hope that someone will come looking for us when we are missing.” Is that so much to ask? Lift your head up, notice your fellow man.
April 3, 2019
You might think this book is a call to big actions like getting involved in a non-profit or climbing Kilimanjaro (and that might feel impossible to you). It might be those things and it might not. My suspicion is the call you will feel reading this book will be, like it was for me, a change that will feel much more impossible—something inside, an attitude, a prayer, a way of thinking that needs to shift. Will that lead to bigger changes in your life? Probably.
In a time when many feel compelled to do something in to make a change in the world, this book reminds us that the change starts inside ourselves. It is the place it has to start. Bauman weaves together stories, scripture, and practical application to take us on a journey that is necessary.
“On a spectrum from self-absorption to active empathy, the determining factor is making a decision: choosing to notice, to pause, and to take in the presence and circumstances of the other; choosing to admit weakness, inability, fears...Choosing to focus on the other, no matter how other he is or inconvenient it is, is key.”
I was especially challenged by the sections on becoming an empathetic listener and will be coming back again and again to the steps Bauman lays out that will help on this journey.
(I received a copy of the book from the publisher to give my honest review.)
In a time when many feel compelled to do something in to make a change in the world, this book reminds us that the change starts inside ourselves. It is the place it has to start. Bauman weaves together stories, scripture, and practical application to take us on a journey that is necessary.
“On a spectrum from self-absorption to active empathy, the determining factor is making a decision: choosing to notice, to pause, and to take in the presence and circumstances of the other; choosing to admit weakness, inability, fears...Choosing to focus on the other, no matter how other he is or inconvenient it is, is key.”
I was especially challenged by the sections on becoming an empathetic listener and will be coming back again and again to the steps Bauman lays out that will help on this journey.
(I received a copy of the book from the publisher to give my honest review.)
March 30, 2019
I wish I could've been with Belinda during her journey. Thankfully, she has done such an amazing job at making me feel like I was right there with her. We get so caught up in our daily routines that we forget what's really going on in other's lives. Maybe you are aware. Maybe you're struggling just the same now. This book is going to challenge you no matter where you are in your walk. I get so caught up in my sympathy for others that I never realized how far empathy can go. Did you know that 75% of US college students cared less about others based on the same study done 30 years ago? Belinda shares that empathy is "leaning into the feelings of others". That's deep! This book is an eye-opening experiencing at how to change not only your perspective, but your way of life on how to love on others and reshape the world around us. Thank you IVP for gifting me a copy in exchange for my honest review.
May 21, 2019
As a bleeding heart—who picks up on unseen emotional vibes and takes in sorrow and brokenness with ease—I often wonder what the point of all that feeling and knowing is for. Belinda has cleared this mystery: it’s to move toward being present in whatever suffering and sorrow I see in whatever way God’s Spirit leads. This is both exciting and overwhelming. But it is a vision of life that I pray will be made manifest, to keep watch with Jesus in the cracked, barren places and find His life redeeming us all.
“Empathy must be given to something more than ourselves. If it hasn’t, it’s not empathy at all. It remains aloof, an idea, mere rhetoric, a theory. Action must accompany our loftiest of thoughts, our most wrenching emotions, and our bravest commitments. Empathy without action undermines its very reason for being.”
“Empathy must be given to something more than ourselves. If it hasn’t, it’s not empathy at all. It remains aloof, an idea, mere rhetoric, a theory. Action must accompany our loftiest of thoughts, our most wrenching emotions, and our bravest commitments. Empathy without action undermines its very reason for being.”
May 10, 2019
Wow... This book is truly powerful and poignant - an absolute wake up call to all of us about the power of letting down the walls of our hearts and letting people in. We are commanded to rejoice with those who rejoice and weep with those who weep. But the truth of the matter is, without empathy we cannot fulfill this. Excellent book.
November 20, 2018
Thought-provoking, inspiring, hopeful.
September 30, 2019
[To see each person I meet] as "The holiest object presented to [my] senses." C.S. Lewis
The heart of this book is just that. To rethink how we see and experience our encounters with others whether stranger, lover, enemy or friend. Every person deserves our empathic heart, ears, and soul and if we are brave enough to live vulnerably in this way, we can then be the change that our wounded world needs. She explains this through persons' she's met, primarily women in war-torn places who've had to overcome desperate and life-threatening pains and obstacles, as well as through her personal journey with friends. I think the hope of this book is that if we look rightly at ourselves, and deeply into the hearts of others, and through God's help we can practice empathy. If empathy is missing in our world, which she argues it is, by bringing it into our very real-life situations, we can begin to see healing in our societal breakdowns.
The heart of this book is just that. To rethink how we see and experience our encounters with others whether stranger, lover, enemy or friend. Every person deserves our empathic heart, ears, and soul and if we are brave enough to live vulnerably in this way, we can then be the change that our wounded world needs. She explains this through persons' she's met, primarily women in war-torn places who've had to overcome desperate and life-threatening pains and obstacles, as well as through her personal journey with friends. I think the hope of this book is that if we look rightly at ourselves, and deeply into the hearts of others, and through God's help we can practice empathy. If empathy is missing in our world, which she argues it is, by bringing it into our very real-life situations, we can begin to see healing in our societal breakdowns.
April 7, 2019
I was given an Advanced Readers Copy of Brave Souls and have been on the Launch Team for this beautiful book. I have not quite finished it, but it has truly made a mark on my life already!
I have to start with this…Belinda lives what she says, and that makes me love this book all the more. I have known her for years…way before she met Esperance, the Congolese woman whose story changed the author’s life. Her words are time tested and true. I have seen her grow in empathy and love for people from all walks of life and graciously, naturally and humbly welcome others into her journey to love like Jesus loves.
Brave Souls is a beautifully written call to ALL of us to practice the discipline of holy empathy…empathy, she says being something we are hardwired by God to use, part of His design for humanity. “Empathy says “I know and I care.”…Empathy offers action; it fearlessly takes on a problem and moves mountains to help. Empathy takes the responsibility to know what the other is feeling and is marked by compassion and connection.”
This call is woven between captivating stories of Belinda’s travels in and out of war zones, and contacts with women who have survived horrendous abuse. She shares how these brave souls have marked her life forever. She lays out specific ways to learn the practice of empathy in everyday life and relationships. This book is real, and she is convincing me that “Empathy is gritty, concrete , and practical, available for anyone who is thirsty enough to pursue real love.”
“We all have a choice either to leave a mark of love or pass by on the other side of the road.” Belinda says. Reading this book will make it very hard to ever just “pass by” again!!
I have to start with this…Belinda lives what she says, and that makes me love this book all the more. I have known her for years…way before she met Esperance, the Congolese woman whose story changed the author’s life. Her words are time tested and true. I have seen her grow in empathy and love for people from all walks of life and graciously, naturally and humbly welcome others into her journey to love like Jesus loves.
Brave Souls is a beautifully written call to ALL of us to practice the discipline of holy empathy…empathy, she says being something we are hardwired by God to use, part of His design for humanity. “Empathy says “I know and I care.”…Empathy offers action; it fearlessly takes on a problem and moves mountains to help. Empathy takes the responsibility to know what the other is feeling and is marked by compassion and connection.”
This call is woven between captivating stories of Belinda’s travels in and out of war zones, and contacts with women who have survived horrendous abuse. She shares how these brave souls have marked her life forever. She lays out specific ways to learn the practice of empathy in everyday life and relationships. This book is real, and she is convincing me that “Empathy is gritty, concrete , and practical, available for anyone who is thirsty enough to pursue real love.”
“We all have a choice either to leave a mark of love or pass by on the other side of the road.” Belinda says. Reading this book will make it very hard to ever just “pass by” again!!
April 8, 2019
Weaving stories of her ascent of Kilimanjaro alongside the stories of women - many refugees from war torn areas, who have endured much yet found peace - Belinda takes us into the heart of what it means to live out empathy. In this, she challenges us to move beyond civility, beyond apathy, beyond antipathy and sympathy, beyond a cheap, superficial type of love. To care enough to understand, and to understand enough to care.
Belinda gives both a call to action as well as practical insight that she has found helpful on her journey to live out empathy. Real empathy is hard; so I really enjoyed the discussion of empathy as a spiritual discipline, not a character trait or skillset.
“Empathy is impossible unless we pursue it like a spiritual discipline - in and through our daily lives, with people, for people, by people - not as a virtue or skill but as a daily rhythm where reflection and action are seamlessly stitched together, where grace and diligence meet each other every day through our successes and failures, breakthroughs and breakdowns. When we pursue empathy this way, we avail ourselves to oceans of grace we’ve never dreamed of, grace that can help us love in ways we never imagined possible.”
An enjoyable read with the right amount of kick-in-the-pants motivation!
Belinda gives both a call to action as well as practical insight that she has found helpful on her journey to live out empathy. Real empathy is hard; so I really enjoyed the discussion of empathy as a spiritual discipline, not a character trait or skillset.
“Empathy is impossible unless we pursue it like a spiritual discipline - in and through our daily lives, with people, for people, by people - not as a virtue or skill but as a daily rhythm where reflection and action are seamlessly stitched together, where grace and diligence meet each other every day through our successes and failures, breakthroughs and breakdowns. When we pursue empathy this way, we avail ourselves to oceans of grace we’ve never dreamed of, grace that can help us love in ways we never imagined possible.”
An enjoyable read with the right amount of kick-in-the-pants motivation!
June 29, 2019
I was totally fixated on all the wrong things in the book itself. For instance...ah, nevermind, I'm probably barking up the wrong tree here.
It made me think about how I think, and it made me recognize some patterns in my own ways of interacting with people. I hope to learn a lesson or two. I'm glad I read it. I'm not sure I understood the structure and format, but, ah, nevermind. It was fine, good even. Should you read it? If it ever comes out in pamphlet form, for sure.
It made me think about how I think, and it made me recognize some patterns in my own ways of interacting with people. I hope to learn a lesson or two. I'm glad I read it. I'm not sure I understood the structure and format, but, ah, nevermind. It was fine, good even. Should you read it? If it ever comes out in pamphlet form, for sure.
May 8, 2019
In Brave Souls, Bauman shares about her experiences climbing a mountain, becoming an activist, and interviewing women in war-ravaged areas of the world. She peels back the veil of the human experience and reveals ways we can enter more deeply into the experience of another person. Brave Souls is an important book for anyone who yearns to grow in compassion, empathy, and love. So basically, it's a book for all of us.
May 11, 2020
I think Belinda's message of truly listening, being truly empathetic, is so necessary in today's increasingly divided world. I wanted to hear more from the individual women in the war-torn areas, and would have liked her to go deeper into what work is being done by One Million Thumbprints as I am still not entirely sure what the organization does. Overall a good, inspiring book which reminded me of how much we all need to work on truly listening to each other.
April 2, 2019
Do you have Empathy??? Is it something God expects you to have?? Belinda takes you on a journey within to depths you’ve probably never experienced before and I hope you listen because this world desperately needs empathy!!!
April 4, 2019
In a world so divided, Belinda takes us on a journey that wakes us up to the power of Empathy. This book will take you by the hand and give you practical ways to practice empathy and change the world around you. She is an artful storyteller who will leave you breathless.
Don't miss this read!
Don't miss this read!
August 31, 2020
As an empath, this book was SO ON POINT for SO many things for me. Belinda put into words everything that I feel and could not explain. She is right, this world needs MORE empathy and it could be a much better place. Thank you Belinda for writing this book!
September 4, 2025
I liked a lot of this book, I just wish she had spent more time telling other people's stories or even her own than the story of her climbing the mountain. I liked a lot of her insights on empathy, though.
April 24, 2019
Life goal: become an empathetic, change the world.
June 15, 2019
I love Belinda’s writing and after reading through this once-now want to read it again with a highlighter in my hand. I am convicted to start practicing holy empathy daily!
April 2, 2019
I had the honor of traveling across the ocean to the Congo, and up (and back down) Kilimanjaro with Belinda Bauman and 14 other women. I cried when I met Esperance, whose story is woven throughout this beautiful book, in a dark, dust church in the DR Congo. I couldn’t wait to read Brave Souls and I finished it in one sitting. Basically, I guzzled it like an ice cold Dr. Pepper.
But it’s one I will go back to again and again, revisiting underlined passages and notes in the margins. Belinda is a wonderful storyteller, but an even better teacher. She has studied empathy for years and I have watched with my own eyes as she lives it out in real life. Brave Souls teaches us that Empathy is more than just feeling ... it is compassion, love, and knowledge that propels is to action. It’s a muscle we must strengthen and develop and Belinda gives practical, accessible steps to do just that.
But it’s one I will go back to again and again, revisiting underlined passages and notes in the margins. Belinda is a wonderful storyteller, but an even better teacher. She has studied empathy for years and I have watched with my own eyes as she lives it out in real life. Brave Souls teaches us that Empathy is more than just feeling ... it is compassion, love, and knowledge that propels is to action. It’s a muscle we must strengthen and develop and Belinda gives practical, accessible steps to do just that.
December 3, 2021
I am a deeply empathetic person by nature, but not everyone is.
Bauman says one of the key elements our culture is lacking today is empathy. Too often we assume we know exactly how other people are thinking and feeling and we don't listen to what they actually are saying.
Bauman writes, "We are subtly—and sometimes not so subtly—ignoring each other’s perspectives, circumstances, and needs. Instead of seeking to understand, we quietly pronounce judgment, stoking a simmering anger. Or we smile civilly, nodding our head, feeding the isolation among us. What are we missing? Maybe we’re missing each other. The world has settled for competition instead of compassion, civility instead of love, transaction instead of community."
I wish all those folks at TGC would read her book, but I doubt they would be open to what she is saying here. (They keep putting out bad theology about empathy being a sin, which it most certainly is not.)
Bauman says one of the key elements our culture is lacking today is empathy. Too often we assume we know exactly how other people are thinking and feeling and we don't listen to what they actually are saying.
Bauman writes, "We are subtly—and sometimes not so subtly—ignoring each other’s perspectives, circumstances, and needs. Instead of seeking to understand, we quietly pronounce judgment, stoking a simmering anger. Or we smile civilly, nodding our head, feeding the isolation among us. What are we missing? Maybe we’re missing each other. The world has settled for competition instead of compassion, civility instead of love, transaction instead of community."
I wish all those folks at TGC would read her book, but I doubt they would be open to what she is saying here. (They keep putting out bad theology about empathy being a sin, which it most certainly is not.)
September 18, 2023
Brave Souls was not what I expected. I was initially struggled to "place" the book in the first few chapters. Is is biographical? Is it a study of women in war zones? Is it a theological tomb, or a devotional? Once I laid aside the need to "place" it, I could embrace its powerful message of empathy and grace. I read this at the same time as doing the "What's so Amazing about Grace" Bible study, and the two reinforced each other well. I have thought of empathy in a deeper way and have been challenged to act on it.
"Empathy is impossible unless we pursue it like a spiritual discipline - in and through our daily lives, with people, for people, by people - not as a virtue or skill but as a daily rhythm where reflection and action are seamlessly stitched together, where grace and diligence meet each other every day through our successes and failures, breakthroughs and breakdowns. When we pursue empathy this way, we avail ourselves to oceans of grace we've never dreamed of, grace that can help us love in ways we never imagined possible - as "this and that". (p. 158)
"Empathy is impossible unless we pursue it like a spiritual discipline - in and through our daily lives, with people, for people, by people - not as a virtue or skill but as a daily rhythm where reflection and action are seamlessly stitched together, where grace and diligence meet each other every day through our successes and failures, breakthroughs and breakdowns. When we pursue empathy this way, we avail ourselves to oceans of grace we've never dreamed of, grace that can help us love in ways we never imagined possible - as "this and that". (p. 158)
January 5, 2022
I listened to this on Audible. I found her insight on empathy interesting. I’m not sure I support an expensive hike up a mountain in order to highlight the abuse/ trauma of marginalized women around the world, but I did find her telling if it interesting.
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