Dark Lord's Answer

by Eliezer Yudkowsky

"You wouldn't expect that a man of such great power and wickedness would be in the business of helping any person who requested it. But whether it makes any sense or not, that's the reputation the Dark Lord If you approach the Dark Lord for help, he'll give you an answer and your goal will be achieved. The price is that his answer might violate the rules of righteous conduct. To put it another way, he's like an ancient wisewoman who lives in a high mountain cave and speaks in riddles, except that he's a villainous lord." The country of Santal is perishing, and nobody knows why. His country's plight has driven Prince Nama over far roads to consult the famed Dark Lord for answers. On arriving there, he finds a mightily muscled sage in black armor, just as the stories say. And, chained to the Dark Lord's throne, a mysterious slave-woman with round ears. Round ears? There's nowhere in the world where people have round ears, is there? Content sexual abuse, economics.

Genres: Fantasy, Fiction, Economics, Novella, Philosophy, Humor

69 pages, Kindle Edition

Published December 16, 2016

About the author

Eliezer Yudkowsky is a founding researcher of the field of AI alignment and played a major role in shaping the public conversation about smarter-than-human AI. He appeared on Time magazine's 2023 list of the 100 Most Influential People In AI, was one of the twelve public figures featured in The New York Times's "Who's Who Behind the Dawn of the Modern Artificial Intelligence Movement," and has been discussed or interviewed in The New Yorker, Newsweek, Forbes, Wired, Bloomberg, The Atlantic, The Economist, The Washington Post, and many other venues.

Reviews

[John Smythe]

Everything good about indy pub and fan fiction (story that couldn't possibly be sold to a major publisher, length no one will publish) and everything bad (lack of copy editing, typos that can't be caught by spell check, tense switching, and poor formatting).

That could all be fixed by a good editor, but what probably can't be fixed is that the story is addressing the wrong problem. In the real world we live in, conflicts are almost never the result of misunderstandings about economics and almost always the result of fights over who gets how much.

In the language of the story, the Dark Lord doesn't need to tell petitioners to do things they irrationally think might be immoral. He needs to tell them to do things that everyone knows will help the greater good but that will hurt them personally.

[Michael Salmon]

A fun read. Easy to get through in a day, and rational (of course, look at the author).

There is something to be said about a book who puts the Prince protagonist in a situation where he must observe grave injustice and do nothing because it would be stupid to. I'm all for heroic action but unless you can convince the eight sword wielding fiends to form an orderly line and fight you one at a time, perhaps, with less gusto than they could usually muster, you;re probably going to be swiftly murdered.

I didn't see any of the twists coming and found myself having a conversation with myself that was near biblical in it's circular justification.
"That character is a mage."
"What makes you say that?"
"He looks like one."
"How do you know what mages look like?"
"Because the book told me."
"Which book?"
"The book that also said the mage is a mage..."

[Ty]

Economics meets a Dark Lord

It is reasonably entertaining despite being an unclear tale about economics and nation building. At least the prince wasn't a super genius or a dolt. Beyond the Prince and Elaine there really isn't any character building and everything is a bit cardboard or cookie cutter. Quick amd short it isn't the worst novella I've read recently but it isn't hpmor either.

[David]

A short, strange, economics fiction/fantasy book. 3.5 stars.

[Jules]

Eliezer's first attempt at a Japanese Novel Style story. In Dark Lord's Answer, Eliezer takes on economic theory and wraps it in an intriguing story about a fantasy kingdom in peril. As always, the story works both as an educational idea starter *and* as fiction. I don't know how he keeps succeeding at that where so many other authors fail.

As an economy noob, I enjoyed the thoughtful and patient explanations of economic conundrums (the moral & economic ramifications of giving to beggars being a particular highlight), and as a fantasy fan, I enjoyed the twists and turns of the narrative.

Not as light and cutesy as "A girl corrupted by the internet is the summoned hero?!" but very entertaining and fun to read on a long road trip. Recommended!

[D]

An entertaining setting I think many of us have daydreamed about - with the knowledge and understanding you have, if someone sent you into a medieval fantasy setting, how would you fix things there, and how would that be received?
For me, these daydreams tend to center around trying to fix rationality and science teaching (with Eliezer on this one) but also food production, the medical system, hygiene; and sexism and racism; all while trying not to get burnt at the stake for curing the plague while being gender non-conforming and talking about germs.

In this story, the protagonist focusses on teaching libertarian economic and fiscal theory as well as naive utilitarianism first, and as an aside, BDSM to the locals.

Whether you will find that compelling will depend in part on how convincing you find libertarian economic theory and naive utilitarianism.
The naive utilitarianism is frankly tiresome, especially the long introduction with trolley problems, in which even the prince to be convinced only raises utilitarian concerns.
As for the libertarian theory...
E.g. the dark lord thinks we should not ever give beggars money rather than non-beggars, so as not to incentivise begging... and yet admits that their home, which pushes this - the Bay area, I assume? - is strangely still filled with beggars. So what has this policy achieved, exactly? But as beggars are inevitable, apparently, this is no problem of the theory. Because if we give money to beggars, inevitably, we will end up with criminal cartels crippling beggars as an industry.
Except left wing folks tend not just to want to give the beggar some money now so they can eat and stay warm, which helps concretely, but to tackle the problem at the root. If the beggar has housing first and universal income, the pressure the criminal cartel can put on him will be rather lessened.

That said, the book does a good job of explaining why the government impulse to fix the problem of product x being too expensive by subsidizing or price capping x completely fails to address any legitimate problems in the production of x, meaning it is not a long term solution to a genuine problem (the core problem is unsolved), often not even a short term solution (lowering the rents forcibly won't create more homes), and can even be both expensive and counterproductive (because with the low rents, people are less interested in building homes). I liked the metaphor of figuring out why the wolves were multiplying before deciding what, if anything, to do about it, but it still left a lot open as to how to identify effective ways of intervention vs ones that are counterproductive. Still, the whole introduction of the idea of an equilibrium that systems trend towards when forces balance, the fact that is is neither an intentional thing nor a natural good, the parallel to natural systems, was all very well presented, and worth the highlights - might be worth presenting as a short story separately, and then expanding on these issues (e.g. what about high taxes for products which you want neither consumed nor produced - say, cigarettes, or high carbon emitting products - high enough to disincentivize production and consumption to a degree that achieves a reduction, without being so high as to produce a black market beyond the control of environmental and health regulation?).

I was very bothered by the book implication that someone who immediately turns down the offer to rape a sex slave who will get raped regardless is thoughtless. I was very much with the protagonist: you should turn that down, and right away. If everyone turns it down, she isn't raped. "Everyone" starts with you. By playing a role in completing the circle, you are responsible and guilty. Saying otherwise is like people arguing for weapon sales to conflict regions, arguing that well, someone will sell guns to these child soldiers being forced into genocidal wars, so it might as well be you making a profit. Noone should be selling these, and the basis for you making that argument and fighting for it is certainly not selling them yourself. - If the sex "slave" is actually giving enthustiastic, informed consent, that is another matter, and fine, of course; but the story that she was, and was still a brilliant and strong person, which I liked, was very much undermined by the first rape encounter, as well as a later one, actually being straight out rape, not kink. One of many stories where Eliezer is handling sexual violence badly, and confusing ethical kink (which is awesome) with playing fast and loose with rape. You very much can, and should, tell liberating stories about the former without justifying the latter.

On an up note, though, the book had several intelligent female characters giving, at times, remarkably good advice on leadership.

So a very mixed bag; but maybe worth a critical skim, there are gems hidden among really problematic stuff.

[Nick]

Going in I thought it was going to be a malaligned oracle AI parable, but low and behold, economics! Not as much as I might have liked but following up with "Frequently Asked Questions for Central Banks Undershooting Their Inflation Target" (https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/tAThq...) scratched that itch. Otherwise I enjoyed the fantasy setting, person out of time tropes, and even thinking about the morality play parts.

[Jonathan]

An short and relatively sweet book. I don't think it is Yudkowsky's best writing certainly parts of HPMOR were better. I expected that there would be a twist a the end but I still enjoyed. This book does however have one profoundly interesting idea (which is sadly not very well explored): the Mage of Equilibrium.

[Jetske Beks]

I started reading this book hoping for either a good story or a good lesson. It turned out to be neither, and also both; I did learn something from it, and it was pleasant to read. It just could've been better.
I'd still recommend it, if only because there aren't many books like this out there and perhaps it will inspire you to do something, like learn, or write, or teach. Who knows.

[Aditya Prasad]

I hoped for more

Just as the other reviews claim, this is not upto the standard of his usual works. This book did make me think about equilibrium in a much more general way than that used to. It's surely better than nothing, I eagerly wait for more books from you Eliezer.

[Ovidiu]

Too short, too little economy :)

[Shivon Zilis]

A lovely trip back to my econ / philosophy undergrad! This is more tactical than literary, intentionally. My first of Eliezer's short form work, would enjoy reading another!

[Angelbar]

Philosophy, ethics and a background of macroeconomics its good to remember that in real life magic its not required

[Burke Lanthorn]

Read 'A Girl Corrupted...' first

If you like it then wish to read a lesser work purchase 'Dark Lord...'

I enjoyed it but not nearly as much as '...Summoned Hero.'

[Ozy Frantz]

Cute, slight story with an economics lesson.

[Alek]

A short fun read, especially if you try to guess the economic problem that plagues the kingdom from the description given.

[Robert]

Clever and interesting story about rationality and economics. Not for everyone.

I find it interesting that someone so intelligent about rationality can be so un-intelligent about morality.

[Graham Annett]

bad in many ways but short enough + not so awful to make me stop reading

[Boyko Neov]

Not especially revolutionary, but easy, quick and pleasant to read

[Max Bolingbroke]

Bonk! Go to horny jail, Elieizer

[Дмитрий]

It's neither for kids, nor for adults. It's propagating money velocity myth. I became dumber after this book.

[Andrej]

mid. made the mistake of reading after watching another Yud interview. Somehow the didactic tone wrt basic economics added to some weird sexual mores stuff just made this pretty intolerable

[ironat]

I was hoping it wont be like That, but unfortunately it do be like That. Cringe yud. Do not regret reading tho.

[Reader]

I really liked the idea of this book and setting. I wish it could have been longer to explore more situations and thought of the same kind

[Basil H]

Yea so this is a market monetarist fan fiction. Classic Yudkowsky tropes.

[Eric Herboso]

The Dark Lord will answer whatever question you most need answered, but the answer you receive might not appear good in itself. The Dark Lord's Answer will always be instrumentally good, but your conscience may cause you to hesitate before following through with the implementation.

Yudkowsky does an excellent job of setting up a fascinating story here, but he fails at following through. The genre is rational fiction, but good rational fiction should not be as explainy as this is. At times, the text just isn't light enough, and a reader who isn't already familiar with economics might consider the book too preachy. I'm reminded of bad educational video games from the 1990s; it's a lesson wrapped up in a shell of entertainment -- except it's not entertaining if you don't want to learn the material.

If you are already moderately knowledgable about economics, then this is an interesting read. The setting is great; the characters are great; the way the characters solve problems is great. But after finishing the too short text, all I can think about is how I wanted the story to be more about the Dark Lord, and less about the intricacies of the main problem that the Dark Lord solved in the book.

If you like rational fiction, read this book. It's short and it has great ideas that make it worthwhile. If you already know some economics, then you won't get too put out by the explainy sections, which is a bonus.

But if you don't know economics, then this book will feel as preachy as Ayn Rand, but without the length nor inanity. If you haven't read rational fiction before, then this is not a good starting point. Try The Sword of Good by the same author instead.

I give it three stars because I liked it more than most short books, but it's at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to rational fiction.

[Madhura]

I like the book. This is certainly not Yudkowsky at his best, but it is still better than most books out there. It is informative, humorous and wise. I will still recommend it, being a Yudkowsky fan through and through.

[Dan]

The author writes: "this isn't as good as my other books, but maybe you'll like it anyway." He also writes: "trigger warnings: sexual abuse, economics." I agree with him on all of this. Four stars.

In some sense, once he's admitted this book has some problems, it's a bit unfair for me to spend time nitpicking the problems. But I'm going to anyway.

The central premise, that a dark lord solves problems for people but not necessarily ethically in their view, is really interesting and I wish we had seen more of it. The dark lord herself seems to have gone through a bunch of stories in acquiring her various employees and wealth. Where are those stories? Not in this book.

The economics starts out interesting but at some point it crosses the line between "the author is telling a story" and "the author has suspended the story in order to lecture the reader on economics". The author's central premise seemed right, but he mostly seemed to be arguing from fictional evidence he had invented to support his point, so I felt funny about completely trusting him.

The sexual-abuse plotline led to one interesting moral question, in the Asking Moral Questions chapter. After that it was mostly just annoying. Thankfully nothing was described in any detail.

[Nifrigel]

An attempt by Eliezer Yudkowsky to write a ranobe about economics. It has the common shortcoming of amateur web-novels: author has a single well-thought idea and tries to write a whole book with this idea at the center. But books usually require more stuff like characters, world building, plot, atmosphere and so on. Also, while economics is an interesting theme and a well-written story illustrating economical mechanics is a good read, you kinda expect something more unusual from the likes of Eliezer Yudkowsky. Something closer to his uncommon areas of expertise, like rational fiction. Economics? Many people can write stuff like that. If you don't know beforehand Dark Lord's Answer is written by Yudkowsky, you could never guess.

[Adom]

As Eliezer notes, this book sits in a weird middle area between his normal style and the light-novel style he was shooting for. Without the ridiculous otunaeunthaonteuhaotneu of A Girl Corrupted by the Internet is the Summoned Hero?! the weird tense errors and narrative style ended up seeming out of place, and the story ended up being simpler than I've come to expect from him without being as fun as his other LN work.