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It Came from Beyond Zen!: More Practical Advice from Dogen, Japan's Greatest Zen Master
Vol. 2 of Brad Warner’s Radical but Reverent Paraphrasing of Dogen’s Treasury of the True Dharma Eye
In Japan in 1253, one of the great thinkers of his time died — and the world barely noticed. That man was the Zen monk Eihei Dogen. For centuries his main work, Shobogenzo , languished in obscurity, locked away in remote monasteries until scholars rediscovered it in the twentieth century. What took so long? In Brad Warner’s view, Dogen was too ahead of his time to find an appreciative audience. To bring Dogen’s work to a bigger readership, Warner began paraphrasing Shobogenzo , recasting it in simple, everyday language. The first part of this project resulted in Don’t Be a Jerk , and now Warner presents this second volume, It Came from Beyond Zen! Once again, Warner uses wry humor and incisive commentary to bridge the gap between past and present, making Dogen’s words clearer and more relevant than ever before.
In Japan in 1253, one of the great thinkers of his time died — and the world barely noticed. That man was the Zen monk Eihei Dogen. For centuries his main work, Shobogenzo , languished in obscurity, locked away in remote monasteries until scholars rediscovered it in the twentieth century. What took so long? In Brad Warner’s view, Dogen was too ahead of his time to find an appreciative audience. To bring Dogen’s work to a bigger readership, Warner began paraphrasing Shobogenzo , recasting it in simple, everyday language. The first part of this project resulted in Don’t Be a Jerk , and now Warner presents this second volume, It Came from Beyond Zen! Once again, Warner uses wry humor and incisive commentary to bridge the gap between past and present, making Dogen’s words clearer and more relevant than ever before.
368 pages, Paperback
Published October 10, 2017
54 people are currently reading
422 people want to read
About the author
Brad Warner
22 books595 followersBrad Warner is an ordained Zen Master (though he hates that term) in the Soto lineage founded in Japan by Master Dogen Zenji in the 13th century. He's the bass player for the hardcore punk rock group 0DFx (aka Zero Defex) and the ex-vice president of the Los Angeles office of the company founded by the man who created Godzilla.
Brad was born in Hamilton, Ohio in 1964. In 1972, his family relocated to Nairobi, Kenya. When Brad returned to Wadsworth three years later, nothing about rural Ohio seemed quite the same anymore.
In 1982 Brad joined 0DFx. 0DFx caught the attention of a number of major bands on the hardcore punk scene. But they soon broke up leaving a single eighteen second burst of noise, titled Drop the A-Bomb On Me, as their only recorded legacy on a compilation album called P.E.A.C.E./War.
In 1993, Brad went to Japan to realize a childhood dream to actually work for the people who made low budget Japanese monster movies. To his own astonishment, he landed himself a job with one of Japan's leading producers of man-in-a-rubber-dinosaur-costume giant monster movies.
Back in the early 80s, while still playing hardcore punk, Brad became involved in Zen Buddhism. The realistic, no bullshit philosophy reminded him of the attitude the punks took towards music. Once he got to Japan, he began studying the philosophy with an iconoclastic rebel Zen Master named Gudo Nishijima. After a few years, Nishijima decided to make Brad his successor as a teacher of Zen.
In 2003 he published his first book, "Hardcore Zen: Punk Rock, Monster Movies and the Truth About Reality." In 2007 he followed that up with "Sit Down and Shut Up," a punk-informed look at 13th century Zen Master Dogen. His third book is "Zen Wrapped in Karma Dipped in Chocolate."
Brad was born in Hamilton, Ohio in 1964. In 1972, his family relocated to Nairobi, Kenya. When Brad returned to Wadsworth three years later, nothing about rural Ohio seemed quite the same anymore.
In 1982 Brad joined 0DFx. 0DFx caught the attention of a number of major bands on the hardcore punk scene. But they soon broke up leaving a single eighteen second burst of noise, titled Drop the A-Bomb On Me, as their only recorded legacy on a compilation album called P.E.A.C.E./War.
In 1993, Brad went to Japan to realize a childhood dream to actually work for the people who made low budget Japanese monster movies. To his own astonishment, he landed himself a job with one of Japan's leading producers of man-in-a-rubber-dinosaur-costume giant monster movies.
Back in the early 80s, while still playing hardcore punk, Brad became involved in Zen Buddhism. The realistic, no bullshit philosophy reminded him of the attitude the punks took towards music. Once he got to Japan, he began studying the philosophy with an iconoclastic rebel Zen Master named Gudo Nishijima. After a few years, Nishijima decided to make Brad his successor as a teacher of Zen.
In 2003 he published his first book, "Hardcore Zen: Punk Rock, Monster Movies and the Truth About Reality." In 2007 he followed that up with "Sit Down and Shut Up," a punk-informed look at 13th century Zen Master Dogen. His third book is "Zen Wrapped in Karma Dipped in Chocolate."
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 31 reviews
December 31, 2017
"Your own shit, when used wisely, becomes the fertilizer of your enlightenment." If this quote turns you off, please move on. However, if it made you chuckle, carry on.
I was very excited about reading the follow up on Warner's commentary on the Shobogenzo "Don't Be A Jerk" (https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...) - which I guess makes me kind of a nerd. But Warner truly has a gift for taking the complicated and abstract teachings of Dogen and making them as accessible and straightforward as one can possibly hope. His irreverent humor lightens up the work without ever devaluing it, which is quite a feat in an of itself. It starts of as only a Brad Warner book can: with a weird pun on the concept of the ineffable!
Each chapter is a paraphrasing of a chapter from the original work by Dogen, which is then meticulously analyzed by comparing different translations and interpretations, putting the writing in historical context, and discussion of the teachings' relevance in a modern world.
I think the part I was most excited to read about was Warner's commentary on Dogen's most popular writing "Instructions to the cook", a document that was intended as guidelines for the monastery's chef; which also contains some of the most amazing teachings, that are directly applicable to daily life. I was also happy to find a lot of material about compassion, something Zen writers don't discuss as much as other schools of Buddhism, but which remains an essential component of the practice.
As Warner himself likes to point out, Buddhism is a philosophy of actions. An intellectual understanding is important, but it is what we do with this understanding that truly matter, because if we just read the words, then we are wasting our time. Books like this help refine the intellectual understanding, but also remind us constantly that without practice, it doesn't mean much (especially in a chapter titled "A Needle in the Butt of Zazen").
I also want to mention a moment of pure joy that I had when Warner makes a parallel between interconnectedness and the "Rick and Morty" episode "Auto Erotic Assimilation": this is just too beautiful and nerdy to go unmentioned.
If you enjoyed his previous work, I would enthusiastically recommend "It Came From Beyond Zen", but I also think reading "Don't Be A Jerk" first might be a good idea. Zen nerds will be delighted!
I was very excited about reading the follow up on Warner's commentary on the Shobogenzo "Don't Be A Jerk" (https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...) - which I guess makes me kind of a nerd. But Warner truly has a gift for taking the complicated and abstract teachings of Dogen and making them as accessible and straightforward as one can possibly hope. His irreverent humor lightens up the work without ever devaluing it, which is quite a feat in an of itself. It starts of as only a Brad Warner book can: with a weird pun on the concept of the ineffable!
Each chapter is a paraphrasing of a chapter from the original work by Dogen, which is then meticulously analyzed by comparing different translations and interpretations, putting the writing in historical context, and discussion of the teachings' relevance in a modern world.
I think the part I was most excited to read about was Warner's commentary on Dogen's most popular writing "Instructions to the cook", a document that was intended as guidelines for the monastery's chef; which also contains some of the most amazing teachings, that are directly applicable to daily life. I was also happy to find a lot of material about compassion, something Zen writers don't discuss as much as other schools of Buddhism, but which remains an essential component of the practice.
As Warner himself likes to point out, Buddhism is a philosophy of actions. An intellectual understanding is important, but it is what we do with this understanding that truly matter, because if we just read the words, then we are wasting our time. Books like this help refine the intellectual understanding, but also remind us constantly that without practice, it doesn't mean much (especially in a chapter titled "A Needle in the Butt of Zazen").
I also want to mention a moment of pure joy that I had when Warner makes a parallel between interconnectedness and the "Rick and Morty" episode "Auto Erotic Assimilation": this is just too beautiful and nerdy to go unmentioned.
If you enjoyed his previous work, I would enthusiastically recommend "It Came From Beyond Zen", but I also think reading "Don't Be A Jerk" first might be a good idea. Zen nerds will be delighted!
April 12, 2018
Brad Warner writes some of the most readable books on Zen Buddhism that I’ve ever seen. For a long time, I’ve had a layperson’s interest in the subject. It's not something I practice, but I can definitely feel a pull, and I enjoy reading about it. Many books on Buddhism fall into cliches about the Mysteries of the Orient, and use jargon and overly flowery prose to beguile the reader. Warner, on the other hand, puts everything into language that is as clear and concise as he knows how to make it. He uses humor and humility to get his message across in a way that helps it all go down easy.
In this book, he continues his project of translating and condensing the Shobogenzo by Eihei Dogen, a 13th century Zen text of great renown. The original typically runs some 95 chapters. Warner has gotten it down to two volumes (His previous book, Don't Be A Jerk!, was the first of these.) Each chapter consists of an introduction, a translation of an essay by Dogen, and then a commentary on the translation. Warner is scrupulous about pointing the reader toward other, more orthodox sources, and is pretty good about explaining his reasoning as far as word choice goes. He includes a bibliography listing just about every English version--and several Japanese--of Dogen even remotely available.
Everything reads well, and it's probably the most accessible version of a 13th century Zen text you're ever likely to read. If you're new to Zen and/or Warner, it might be best to start with one of his other books--I recommend Hardcore Zen in particular. Although this is technically volume 2 of the Shobogenzo, knowledge of volume 1 is not required. Recommended!
In this book, he continues his project of translating and condensing the Shobogenzo by Eihei Dogen, a 13th century Zen text of great renown. The original typically runs some 95 chapters. Warner has gotten it down to two volumes (His previous book, Don't Be A Jerk!, was the first of these.) Each chapter consists of an introduction, a translation of an essay by Dogen, and then a commentary on the translation. Warner is scrupulous about pointing the reader toward other, more orthodox sources, and is pretty good about explaining his reasoning as far as word choice goes. He includes a bibliography listing just about every English version--and several Japanese--of Dogen even remotely available.
Everything reads well, and it's probably the most accessible version of a 13th century Zen text you're ever likely to read. If you're new to Zen and/or Warner, it might be best to start with one of his other books--I recommend Hardcore Zen in particular. Although this is technically volume 2 of the Shobogenzo, knowledge of volume 1 is not required. Recommended!
Read
May 18, 2019Part Zen, park punk rock…It Came from Beyond Zen is Brad Werners latest voyage into the work of Japan’s famous Zen master Dogen.
It Came from Beyond Zen explores Dogen’s thoughts, observations and philosophies that are chronicled in his famous body of work of the Shobogenzo. Brad Werner does a great job with his interpretations of Dogen’s Shobogenzo, and through the filter of his own eccentric style, Werner is able to give a fun and insightful glimpse into Dogen’s view with Werner’s own brand of wit and humor. Each chapter shares a Story written by Dogen and interpreted not only by Brad Werner, but other followers of the Zen philosophies throughout history. This allows for a greater awareness of the ever expanding undersatnding of Zen philosophies in both Dogen’s time and our present day.
I find Brad Werner’s It Came From Beyond Zen to be informative, thought provoking and entertaining. -Thomas B.
It Came from Beyond Zen explores Dogen’s thoughts, observations and philosophies that are chronicled in his famous body of work of the Shobogenzo. Brad Werner does a great job with his interpretations of Dogen’s Shobogenzo, and through the filter of his own eccentric style, Werner is able to give a fun and insightful glimpse into Dogen’s view with Werner’s own brand of wit and humor. Each chapter shares a Story written by Dogen and interpreted not only by Brad Werner, but other followers of the Zen philosophies throughout history. This allows for a greater awareness of the ever expanding undersatnding of Zen philosophies in both Dogen’s time and our present day.
I find Brad Werner’s It Came From Beyond Zen to be informative, thought provoking and entertaining. -Thomas B.
May 11, 2019
I recently finished Brad Warner’s latest book, It Came from Beyond Zen. This was his most recent attempt to share the wisdom of his idol and the creator of the school of Zen he follows, Master Dogen. Several of his books (if not all) have dealt with the teachings of Dogen, and this one followed “Don’t Be a Jerk” in reinterpreting the Shobogenzo, what Warner describes as a tough book to interpret.
It took me a long time to get through this book, and it’s the first of Warner’s I haven’t loved. I found it drier, perhaps more technical, and it seemed to have less of Warner writing about how he applies the wisdom in the pages. Like “Don’t be a Jerk” he offers alternative interpretations, and certainly one’s knowledge of the teachings of Dogen are increased, but it was a tougher read. As might be obvious, I’d recommend all of his other books first.
It took me a long time to get through this book, and it’s the first of Warner’s I haven’t loved. I found it drier, perhaps more technical, and it seemed to have less of Warner writing about how he applies the wisdom in the pages. Like “Don’t be a Jerk” he offers alternative interpretations, and certainly one’s knowledge of the teachings of Dogen are increased, but it was a tougher read. As might be obvious, I’d recommend all of his other books first.
April 19, 2019
Probsblybthe most difficult book from Brad so far. Not bad, but it took some time to plough through and Warner's not the only one to blame: Dogen does not make it easy for anyone! Fascinating thoughts, as always, but some of the "it's like this, okay, moving forward" -pieces could've been omitted or changed a little. It was quite repetitive st times. I do appreciate it that Brad doesn't over-analyse everything, but leaves some room to the reader interpret and think for themselves. I haven't read Dogen, but judging from Brad's books, I'd say this is a good way to get to know the guy's thoughts with a little less frustration.
July 21, 2020
If some enterprising publisher of a popular line of introductory texts wants to put out a "Dogen for Dummies" I nominate Brad Warner as the author of choice. Of course, that book would have to compete with this one and its companion volume, "Don't be a Jerk," so perhaps it won't happen.
That's a shame, too, because in this second volume of his deep dive on Dogen, "It Came From Beyond Zen," Brad has written a fine introductory text for those of us who want to know more about the monk who started Soto Zen Buddhism, but don't or can't wade through the mostly scholarly tomes devoted to the subject. My bias will be stated right up front here: I believe Brad Warner is one of the best voices writing about Zen Buddhism today and I wish he were better known than he is. I've practiced in this particular subgroup of the larger Zen world for not quite two decades. I've attended one week-long group sitting with Brad in Atlanta more than ten years ago, so I've met him but I don't know him and he wouldn't remember me at all.
Brad is maybe less well known than other more flashy or controversial Zen teachers because he isn't flashy or controversial. My impression, limited though it is, is that he's largely as he appears in his books: nerdish and knowledgeable, and very relatable. His silly jokes and punk rock references mask a serious intellect. This is after all a man who has been sitting Zazen for decades. His knowledge of Japanese (he lived and worked there for years) gives him an insider's track when trying to explain Dogen, whose writing is nearly incomprehensible at times.
"It Came From Beyond Zen" continues Brad's examination and explanation of Dogen's writings. It's not a translation, though Brad references several standard ones throughout, but more a paraphrase, taking medieval Chinese and Japanese and recasting it in contemporary American English and we are all richer for Brad's hard work. In the past I've banged my head against two different translations of Dogen, leaving me more puzzled than enlightened, and I gave up after maybe a week of trying to understand the Nishijama/Cross version. It was obvious that Dogen was important, but it was impossible to grasp what he was saying.
Not so with this text. Brad has done most of the heavy lifting for us. Don't think this is a fun or fast read; it's not. But Brad's prose gives us a sense of what Dogen might say if he popped up today and spoke colloquial English. We'd still think he was weird, but we'd probably get the gist, or at least enough to want more.
If you are a Zen practitioner, if you know who Dogen is but not what he said, if you just want to read a damned fine bit of scholarship written in an unscholarly style, buy this book.
That's a shame, too, because in this second volume of his deep dive on Dogen, "It Came From Beyond Zen," Brad has written a fine introductory text for those of us who want to know more about the monk who started Soto Zen Buddhism, but don't or can't wade through the mostly scholarly tomes devoted to the subject. My bias will be stated right up front here: I believe Brad Warner is one of the best voices writing about Zen Buddhism today and I wish he were better known than he is. I've practiced in this particular subgroup of the larger Zen world for not quite two decades. I've attended one week-long group sitting with Brad in Atlanta more than ten years ago, so I've met him but I don't know him and he wouldn't remember me at all.
Brad is maybe less well known than other more flashy or controversial Zen teachers because he isn't flashy or controversial. My impression, limited though it is, is that he's largely as he appears in his books: nerdish and knowledgeable, and very relatable. His silly jokes and punk rock references mask a serious intellect. This is after all a man who has been sitting Zazen for decades. His knowledge of Japanese (he lived and worked there for years) gives him an insider's track when trying to explain Dogen, whose writing is nearly incomprehensible at times.
"It Came From Beyond Zen" continues Brad's examination and explanation of Dogen's writings. It's not a translation, though Brad references several standard ones throughout, but more a paraphrase, taking medieval Chinese and Japanese and recasting it in contemporary American English and we are all richer for Brad's hard work. In the past I've banged my head against two different translations of Dogen, leaving me more puzzled than enlightened, and I gave up after maybe a week of trying to understand the Nishijama/Cross version. It was obvious that Dogen was important, but it was impossible to grasp what he was saying.
Not so with this text. Brad has done most of the heavy lifting for us. Don't think this is a fun or fast read; it's not. But Brad's prose gives us a sense of what Dogen might say if he popped up today and spoke colloquial English. We'd still think he was weird, but we'd probably get the gist, or at least enough to want more.
If you are a Zen practitioner, if you know who Dogen is but not what he said, if you just want to read a damned fine bit of scholarship written in an unscholarly style, buy this book.
August 11, 2019
This was a book for serious students of Japenese Zen in general and Dogen in particular. It was especially written for contemporary English speakers who wanted to know about all the important translation debates for the words that Dogen wrote.
This was not for me. So, I just had it by my bed the last 6 months and I would just read a page or two before going to sleep. ::shrug:: Maybe some of it seemed in, I dunno. I did not actually finish the last 20 pages but I used up all my renewals so I felt like I should return it to the library.
This was not for me. So, I just had it by my bed the last 6 months and I would just read a page or two before going to sleep. ::shrug:: Maybe some of it seemed in, I dunno. I did not actually finish the last 20 pages but I used up all my renewals so I felt like I should return it to the library.
January 6, 2018
Yet another great book by Brad Warner. It continues the paraphrasing of Dogen's Shobogenzo started in the previous book 'Don't be a Jerk'. If you haven't read that one, I warmly recommend to read it first before starting this one.
July 19, 2018
A little too detailed than what I wanted. Not a bad book, besides that.
September 18, 2017
Endorsements: (Praise for Brad Warner’s Don't Be a Jerk: And Other Practical Advice from Dogen, Japan's Greatest Zen Master)
“A delightful blend of irreverent everydayness, precise scholarship, and heartfelt commitment to practice.”
— Stephen Batchelor, author of After Buddhism: Rethinking the Dharma for a Secular Age
“Warner renders the esoteric [Shobogenzo] into a fun, readable text, conveying its spirit with humor and deep respect.”
— Publishers Weekly
“What’s clear in reading Warner’s book is his deep respect and lifelong engagement with Dogen. . . . While Warner’s approach to Dogen may be unorthodox, its freshness might be exactly what the doctor ordered for anyone wanting a way in to the old monk’s still fresh perspective.”
— Adam Frank, 13.7: Cosmos & Culture blog, NPR.org
“Each chapter opens with a passage from the original, which is then carefully and often humorously unpacked. . . . Although the tone may be irreverent and humorous, the book shows the utmost respect for the monk, who has influenced so many over the centuries.”
— Booklist
“You couldn’t ask for a better guide through The Treasury of the True Dharma Eye. A most warmly recommended read!”
— Nexus Magazine, Germany
“A delightful blend of irreverent everydayness, precise scholarship, and heartfelt commitment to practice.”
— Stephen Batchelor, author of After Buddhism: Rethinking the Dharma for a Secular Age
“Warner renders the esoteric [Shobogenzo] into a fun, readable text, conveying its spirit with humor and deep respect.”
— Publishers Weekly
“What’s clear in reading Warner’s book is his deep respect and lifelong engagement with Dogen. . . . While Warner’s approach to Dogen may be unorthodox, its freshness might be exactly what the doctor ordered for anyone wanting a way in to the old monk’s still fresh perspective.”
— Adam Frank, 13.7: Cosmos & Culture blog, NPR.org
“Each chapter opens with a passage from the original, which is then carefully and often humorously unpacked. . . . Although the tone may be irreverent and humorous, the book shows the utmost respect for the monk, who has influenced so many over the centuries.”
— Booklist
“You couldn’t ask for a better guide through The Treasury of the True Dharma Eye. A most warmly recommended read!”
— Nexus Magazine, Germany
January 24, 2018
This book is a continuation of Brad Warner's previous installment on Eihei Dogen. It is another paraphrasing of a number of works by Dogen and brings them to life in a new manner. I don't really know if there are other versions of this book in other countries since a lot of the references are very American.
The basic outline of the book is as follows. Brad Warner introduces a concept or idea put forth by Dogen and talks about it a bit. Warner then gets into the actual translated text of what he believes Dogen would have said, had he been an American male in this modern era. Once he has completed the translation Warner refers to other translations and interpretations to explain why he said the things he did and why he omitted some things while including others. The other books he refers to are all full translations of the Shobogenzo, so it sometimes has flowery language that might not be relevant.
In all, there are sixteen essays and pieces by Warner on Dogen. It is quite a fascinating book. As with his previous book, Don't Be A Jerk, this is a very good introduction to Dogen if you don't want to muck through those more stuffy translations of the Shobogenzo and other works by Dogen.
The basic outline of the book is as follows. Brad Warner introduces a concept or idea put forth by Dogen and talks about it a bit. Warner then gets into the actual translated text of what he believes Dogen would have said, had he been an American male in this modern era. Once he has completed the translation Warner refers to other translations and interpretations to explain why he said the things he did and why he omitted some things while including others. The other books he refers to are all full translations of the Shobogenzo, so it sometimes has flowery language that might not be relevant.
In all, there are sixteen essays and pieces by Warner on Dogen. It is quite a fascinating book. As with his previous book, Don't Be A Jerk, this is a very good introduction to Dogen if you don't want to muck through those more stuffy translations of the Shobogenzo and other works by Dogen.
May 30, 2018
"Don't be a Jerk" is just a bit better.
"Meditation is the direct observation of the workings of the human mind, not objectively, the way science might attempt to do such observation, but in a blatantly subjective manner. We observe the workings of the human mind by sitting quietly with our own brains and bodies and seeing what they do. This is what Dogen did, and it's why he says what he says about life and death.
The kind of introspective research I'm describing is a time-consuming process, because each and every one of us comes with a lot of preconceived notions about ourselves. These notions have been built up throughout our entire lifetimes and draw on the entire lifetime of the human race for much of their source material. It's not easy to get through this, and it's never quick or completely painless. We need to give up all of our most cherished notions of who and what we are in order to see clearly the truth of our own existence. But the rewards of doing this are unspeakably great."
"Meditation is the direct observation of the workings of the human mind, not objectively, the way science might attempt to do such observation, but in a blatantly subjective manner. We observe the workings of the human mind by sitting quietly with our own brains and bodies and seeing what they do. This is what Dogen did, and it's why he says what he says about life and death.
The kind of introspective research I'm describing is a time-consuming process, because each and every one of us comes with a lot of preconceived notions about ourselves. These notions have been built up throughout our entire lifetimes and draw on the entire lifetime of the human race for much of their source material. It's not easy to get through this, and it's never quick or completely painless. We need to give up all of our most cherished notions of who and what we are in order to see clearly the truth of our own existence. But the rewards of doing this are unspeakably great."
July 2, 2020
This is Brad Warner's second book paraphrasing and commenting on pieces of 13th century Zen teacher Dogen's "Shobogenzo."
I like Brad Warner's books. Sometimes his goofy schtick gets to be a bit too much for me, but on the whole I like his stuff. His writing is relevant, accessible, and while often goofy, it's serious on a more important level.
I prefer Warner's non-Shobogenzo books. "Hardcore Zen" was fantastic. "Sex, Sin and Zen" was very, very good. "Zen Wrapped In Chocolate..." was solid. And so on. All of it very good.
His Dogen/Shobogenzo books ("Don't Be a Jerk," Sit Down and Shut Up," and this one) are a little harder to get through. I appreciate what he's doing and I am always glad to have read it, but the source material is difficult and the books aren't as instantly gratifying as his other work.
Still, good stuff. Eventually I'll work up the nerve to read a direct translation of Shobogenzo. For now I'll stick with the paraphrases, and will look forward to the next installment of this series.
I like Brad Warner's books. Sometimes his goofy schtick gets to be a bit too much for me, but on the whole I like his stuff. His writing is relevant, accessible, and while often goofy, it's serious on a more important level.
I prefer Warner's non-Shobogenzo books. "Hardcore Zen" was fantastic. "Sex, Sin and Zen" was very, very good. "Zen Wrapped In Chocolate..." was solid. And so on. All of it very good.
His Dogen/Shobogenzo books ("Don't Be a Jerk," Sit Down and Shut Up," and this one) are a little harder to get through. I appreciate what he's doing and I am always glad to have read it, but the source material is difficult and the books aren't as instantly gratifying as his other work.
Still, good stuff. Eventually I'll work up the nerve to read a direct translation of Shobogenzo. For now I'll stick with the paraphrases, and will look forward to the next installment of this series.
February 22, 2018
Very good, but I didn’t like it as much as I had liked “Don’t be a Jerk”. That’s not Brad’s fault, though, he’s as entertaining as ever and his paraphrase of Dogen is still the most readable version around. I think the problem is with Dogen’s contributions – there seems to be more of a range in just how worthwhile they are to read this time out. Some of them are really good, others not so much. Brad, tell Dogen to get on the stick!
Seriously, though, not all of the individual pieces in Shobogenzo are going to be of the same high quality but I found myself wondering if the selections in the earlier volume were the cream of the crop and we can expect a drop off in quality from that point for the rest of the series? I hope not but I’ll be sticking around for the next volume anyway, I guess we'll find out then.
Seriously, though, not all of the individual pieces in Shobogenzo are going to be of the same high quality but I found myself wondering if the selections in the earlier volume were the cream of the crop and we can expect a drop off in quality from that point for the rest of the series? I hope not but I’ll be sticking around for the next volume anyway, I guess we'll find out then.
January 18, 2022
I bought this at a small bookstore and really enjoyed diving into a topic I don't normally gravitate toward. Brad Warner is very good at explaining Buddhist concepts to a beginner audience. I did not like the way the book is structured, though. I wish the author had put his lengthy descriptions of translation choices/ differences into footnotes because it made his interpretations repetitive and slow. I also wouldn't necessarily recommend this book to someone who knows very little about Buddhist philosophy because that's really not the focus of this- but I am coming away from this book with wonderful food for thought and a base understanding of Dogen. I will still probably read some of Warners other books, like Hardcore Zen.
November 22, 2017
Warner continues to take us on a heady trip through the Shobogenzo. It doesn't get any easier, but his explanations are quite helpful, as he continues to show the uniquely important position of Dogen in the development of Buddhism. While Warner is not a polemecist, it's hard not to think that Dogen's teaching, when it isn't impenetrable, sounds most true to the intentions of Buddhism. An excellent read, which will undoubtedly require a re-read in the future.
April 13, 2025
I'll be honest. Dogen is way over my head. Warner certainly simplifies things in a way that is much easier to process. I can't say for sure if he's doing a good job of it. To his credit, he provides a bibliography and recommends several conventional translations. One can only simplify Dogen so much, though. It's still a bit dense and repetitive. Certainly not where I'd recommend anyone start with Warner (or Zen).
March 24, 2018
Brad Warner's "It came from beyond Zen" is a wonderful second volume in his series of books trying to explain Dogen to the laypeople. While this is a more accessible book on Shobogenzo to not mistake it for light or glossing over the dense source material.
I really enjoy Brad's modern spin on paraphrasing Shobogenzo and will definitely have to relisten to this one again to start to absorb it.
I really enjoy Brad's modern spin on paraphrasing Shobogenzo and will definitely have to relisten to this one again to start to absorb it.
January 7, 2020
This is the third book I gave read by Brad. The other two I feel like I understood and greatly enjoyed. This one often had me scratching my head and I will need to reread it a few times. I cannot of a better way to study Dogen.
August 5, 2020
Dogen is for nerds - I sometimes wonder if he is trying to help us or just show off his trippy insights.
Anyway, Brad is a nerd and knows it - he makes Dogen pleasant and funny, even if we still can't really grasp anything - which is good I suppose if we are to be proper Zen Buddhists.
Anyway, Brad is a nerd and knows it - he makes Dogen pleasant and funny, even if we still can't really grasp anything - which is good I suppose if we are to be proper Zen Buddhists.
April 26, 2025
Second book on the Shobogenzo by Brad. Enjoyed it. Not an easy read but Brad's writing is enjoyable, witty and makes Dogen's writings somewhat understandable. Probably should heed his previous book "Sit Down and Shut Up" and do just that.
September 28, 2018
I have always enjoyed Mr. Warner's writing. However, this book read more like a research paper than I care for.
December 28, 2020
Interessant. Abstrakter und komplexer als das erste Dogen Buch von Brad Warner.
September 13, 2022
Another in a line of books in which Warner paraphrases and explains Dogen's work for a Western audience. He remains true to form and I'll keep reading them if he keeps writing them.
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January 25, 2018Shobogenzo (the work of a thirteenth century Zen monk), languished in obscurity, locked away in remote monasteries until scholars rediscovered it in the twentieth century. In Brad Warner's view, Dogen was too ahead of his time to find an appreciative audience. Warner began paraphrasing Shobogenzo, recasting it in simple, everyday language. The first part of this project resulted in Don't Be a Jerk, and now Warner presents this second volume.
-Scott
-Scott
July 14, 2023
I'm still really loving these as a whole, but this one perhaps a tad less than Don't Be a Jerk, although I imagine I'll spend more time with both over time, in which case it's possible I'll change that feeling.
July 31, 2018
Good follow up to Don't Be A Jerk - fairly dense, but decently done with good metaphors and explanations on translation choice.
So if you want to learn more about Dogen's ideas for Buddhism, decent text for that.
So if you want to learn more about Dogen's ideas for Buddhism, decent text for that.
July 16, 2018
Another Zen classic that makes Shobogenzo more approachable!
October 27, 2017
This is the second book in a series where Brad paraphrases and analyzes Dogen's work for modern Western readers. It's a lot more specialized than "Hardcore Zen" or "Sit down and shut up", so I don't recommend it to people new to either Zen or Brad's exploration of it. If you liked his previous installment in this series, "Don't Be A Jerk", you'll probably also like this one. Some of the line by line dissection of the texts can be tedious, but the Zen nerd in me was fascinated.
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January 29, 2018294.385 W279 2017
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