What do you think?
Rate this book
Cérès et Vesta
Dans un futur distant... L'humanité a établi des colonies dans les astéroïdes. Entre Cérès et Vesta, les échanges commerciaux vont bon train, chacune des deux colonies échangeant ce dont l'autre est dépourvue - glace contre roche. Mais sur Vesta, la situation politique devient intenable suite à l'arrivée au pouvoir d'un parti populiste qui stigmatise une minorité : les Sivadier. Si les pères fondateurs de la colonie ont choisi de tout partager équitablement, l'effort des Sivadier a été plus intellectuel que physique, chose que reproche l'actuel gouvernement à leurs descendants - qui n'ont d'autre choix que de fuir vers Cérès. Or Vesta voit cela d'un très mauvais œil et exige de Cérès qu'ils cessent d'accueillir ce flot constant de réfugiés, sous peine de représailles. Sur Vesta, Camille, activiste pro-Sivadier, doit se résoudre à l'exil lorsque le climat se fait trop violent. Sur Cérès, Anna prend ses fonctions à l'astroport et se retrouve bientôt confrontée à un choix cornélien : sauver les 800 passagers d'un vaisseau de réfugiés, ou les 4000 qui transitent, arrimés clandestinement à des blocs de glace envoyés depuis Vesta. Une SF brillante qui aborde de manière frontale la question cruciale des réfugiés et de leur statut.
120 pages, Paperback
First published January 1, 2016
21 people are currently reading
367 people want to read
About the author
Greg Egan
267 books2,800 followersGreg Egan specialises in hard science fiction stories with mathematical and quantum ontology themes, including the nature of consciousness. Other themes include genetics, simulated reality, posthumanism, mind transfer, sexuality, artificial intelligence, and the superiority of rational naturalism over religion.
He is a Hugo Award winner (and has been shortlisted for the Hugos three other times), and has also won the John W Campbell Memorial Award for Best Novel. Some of his earlier short stories feature strong elements of supernatural horror, while due to his more popular science fiction he is known within the genre for his tendency to deal with complex and highly technical material (including inventive new physics and epistemology) in an unapologetically thorough manner.
Egan is a famously reclusive author when it comes to public appearances, he doesn't attend science fiction conventions, doesn't sign books and there are no photos available of him on the web.
Excerpted from Wikipedia.
He is a Hugo Award winner (and has been shortlisted for the Hugos three other times), and has also won the John W Campbell Memorial Award for Best Novel. Some of his earlier short stories feature strong elements of supernatural horror, while due to his more popular science fiction he is known within the genre for his tendency to deal with complex and highly technical material (including inventive new physics and epistemology) in an unapologetically thorough manner.
Egan is a famously reclusive author when it comes to public appearances, he doesn't attend science fiction conventions, doesn't sign books and there are no photos available of him on the web.
Excerpted from Wikipedia.
Ratings & Reviews
Friends & Following
Create a free account to discover what your friends think of this book!
Community Reviews
Displaying 1 - 30 of 83 reviews
February 9, 2017
What a surprisingly fun read! It looks like I've neglected this author for far too long.
This novella was full of sharp prose and even sharper ideas, turning the old ethical quandary of the many and the few into a pretty harrowing conflict.
These are just people whose ancestors may or may not have profited by intellectual capitalism, and yet the modern society has decided to culturally and lawfully punish the current innocents. What happens later is nothing less than a fight for doing the right thing against heavy ethical scales. All choices become bad ones, and how this gets resolved is quite poignant.
Hard SF? Yes, but it doesn't even feel like it. It feels like a great story that should be studied from any field of literature. Great characters? Absolutely. I feel almost as if it was happening now, and perhaps it is.
Think of the amazingly oppressive social and economic stigma put on Germany and the innocents who had never been a part of the war. This story is on this high level, and I applaud. Greg Egan is a smart man with one hell of an ethical heart. :)
Thanks goes to Netgalley for this ARC!
This novella was full of sharp prose and even sharper ideas, turning the old ethical quandary of the many and the few into a pretty harrowing conflict.
These are just people whose ancestors may or may not have profited by intellectual capitalism, and yet the modern society has decided to culturally and lawfully punish the current innocents. What happens later is nothing less than a fight for doing the right thing against heavy ethical scales. All choices become bad ones, and how this gets resolved is quite poignant.
Hard SF? Yes, but it doesn't even feel like it. It feels like a great story that should be studied from any field of literature. Great characters? Absolutely. I feel almost as if it was happening now, and perhaps it is.
Think of the amazingly oppressive social and economic stigma put on Germany and the innocents who had never been a part of the war. This story is on this high level, and I applaud. Greg Egan is a smart man with one hell of an ethical heart. :)
Thanks goes to Netgalley for this ARC!
October 10, 2018
I'd heard good things about this one, running up to the Hugo nominations, but didn't end up having time to read it before the voting deadlines. It's a good, solid science fiction story - very idea-oriented, but not to the detriment of the plot. There are actually two ethical concepts that Egan asks the reader to consider here.
One is that referred to in the title; and has to do with the ethics of endangering the 'few' when the lives of the 'many' are threatened. It's a dilemma familiar to most sci-fi fans, as well as ethicists, but the scenario drawn here is an original and dramatic twist on the theme.
The other idea that the bulk of the story deals with is the question of whether it is wise or justified to hold one group of citizens responsible in some way for the situations and/or responsibilities of the past. On this colony world, one political group dominates a minority, using justifications from the founding of the society to demand reparations - and, in the process, creating a toxic environment in which the seeds of persecution thrive. The situation is different enough on many levels from that of our own society for it to avoid polemic and allegory - while succeeding in being very thought-provoking, showing how small and seemingly insignificant demands can contribute to a zeitgeist, snowballing out of control.
Thank to Subterranean and NetGalley for the opportunity to read. As always, my opinions are unaffected by the source of the book.
One is that referred to in the title; and has to do with the ethics of endangering the 'few' when the lives of the 'many' are threatened. It's a dilemma familiar to most sci-fi fans, as well as ethicists, but the scenario drawn here is an original and dramatic twist on the theme.
The other idea that the bulk of the story deals with is the question of whether it is wise or justified to hold one group of citizens responsible in some way for the situations and/or responsibilities of the past. On this colony world, one political group dominates a minority, using justifications from the founding of the society to demand reparations - and, in the process, creating a toxic environment in which the seeds of persecution thrive. The situation is different enough on many levels from that of our own society for it to avoid polemic and allegory - while succeeding in being very thought-provoking, showing how small and seemingly insignificant demands can contribute to a zeitgeist, snowballing out of control.
Thank to Subterranean and NetGalley for the opportunity to read. As always, my opinions are unaffected by the source of the book.
April 26, 2022
Q: “My consciousness is more conscious than your consciousness.”
“Ah, but how many conches could a consciousness conch if a consciousness could conch conches?” (c)
Q: You think war is an infection, and we can catch it just by talking to them? (c)
Q: I just want to talk to someone with different experiences, now and then. (c)
It's a good thing this is not the first GE's work I've ever read or I would've relegated him to the wannabe ethics researchers who sacrifice the sci-fi angle to make sure to explain the ideas that have longs since been super explaines and make popular enough to be half-forgotten.
Intellectual property as a cause for the ultimate interplanetary rebellion overall is a titillating concept but so many more could be as well.
Q:
I think Vestans are exactly like us. They had a life every bit as good as ours—just as safe, just as prosperous—and like us, a lot of bored, aimless people who’d never really found any purpose. But then they realised that they could fill that hole by inventing a grievance, and taking sides, and refusing to be swayed no matter what. Maybe you think we’re immune to that kind of thing, but I don’t. (c)
Q:
If forewarned is forearmed, how can more information about Vesta be a bad thing? (c)
Q:
“Ah, but how many conches could a consciousness conch if a consciousness could conch conches?” (c)
Q: You think war is an infection, and we can catch it just by talking to them? (c)
Q: I just want to talk to someone with different experiences, now and then. (c)
It's a good thing this is not the first GE's work I've ever read or I would've relegated him to the wannabe ethics researchers who sacrifice the sci-fi angle to make sure to explain the ideas that have longs since been super explaines and make popular enough to be half-forgotten.
Intellectual property as a cause for the ultimate interplanetary rebellion overall is a titillating concept but so many more could be as well.
Q:
I think Vestans are exactly like us. They had a life every bit as good as ours—just as safe, just as prosperous—and like us, a lot of bored, aimless people who’d never really found any purpose. But then they realised that they could fill that hole by inventing a grievance, and taking sides, and refusing to be swayed no matter what. Maybe you think we’re immune to that kind of thing, but I don’t. (c)
Q:
If forewarned is forearmed, how can more information about Vesta be a bad thing? (c)
Q:
December 29, 2016
The novella tries to breathe life in an old ethical scenario, The Trolley Problem , by putting a variant of it into a story with characters. As the driver of a trolley with failed brakes, do you let it mow down five workers in its path, or divert it onto a spur with one man in the way, thereby becoming an active participant in killing a bystander. An older variant makes the result of the latter type of choice a family member. In this story, the equivalent of the latter situation corresponds to 800 innocent passengers on a space ferry slated to dock at the colony space station Ceres, many of them friends or family members of the colonists. The equivalent of the larger set of potential victims corresponds to residents of a planet, Vesta, who are trying to escape economic oppression by flying individually in space suits strapped to rocks. The pilot of the ferry and a Ceres administrator are trying to work out a strategy to save the escaping Vestans from being killed that gambles the fate of the ferry passengers.
Versions of the ethic scenario always came off as an abstract thought problem to me, so it attracted my interest to experience a version that could bring the moral choices to life. Unfortunately, the characters weren’t lively enough to engage significant caring over their anguish. Also, I had trouble emotionally investing in the situation of the escapees, whose excessive taxation to balance exploitative behaviors of their ancestors in the foundation of Vesta didn’t seem sufficient enough to risk their lives on escape. The ambition of Egan to pursue a philosophical question and his reputation does lead me to want to pursue other books by him, a serious gap in my reading history.
This novella was provided as an e-book for review by the publisher through the Netgalley program.
Versions of the ethic scenario always came off as an abstract thought problem to me, so it attracted my interest to experience a version that could bring the moral choices to life. Unfortunately, the characters weren’t lively enough to engage significant caring over their anguish. Also, I had trouble emotionally investing in the situation of the escapees, whose excessive taxation to balance exploitative behaviors of their ancestors in the foundation of Vesta didn’t seem sufficient enough to risk their lives on escape. The ambition of Egan to pursue a philosophical question and his reputation does lead me to want to pursue other books by him, a serious gap in my reading history.
This novella was provided as an e-book for review by the publisher through the Netgalley program.
February 7, 2017
An interesting short story which escalates from an ethics issue in an asteroid-based society right into a variant of the classic ethical question of the Trolley Problem.
The asteroid of Vesta has a political situation where a persecuted minority are fleeing to Ceres. Ceres itself seems to be heading down the same road after the population narrowly passes legislation which makes second-class citizens of the same minority (depressingly familiar story at the moment). Then a situation comes up where the protagonist, a member of that minority, is forced to make a horrible choice.
This was excellent, but the details of the "stone river" are not well described. They don't really need to be to get the gist of the story, but I found it a bit frustrating.
The asteroid of Vesta has a political situation where a persecuted minority are fleeing to Ceres. Ceres itself seems to be heading down the same road after the population narrowly passes legislation which makes second-class citizens of the same minority (depressingly familiar story at the moment). Then a situation comes up where the protagonist, a member of that minority, is forced to make a horrible choice.
This was excellent, but the details of the "stone river" are not well described. They don't really need to be to get the gist of the story, but I found it a bit frustrating.
November 21, 2016
"I seriously need to hear that this can't happen."Egan is one of my go-to authors for thought-provoking stories. He has a gift for bringing "what-if" questions to life, and his novella The Four Thousand, The Eight Hundred is no exception. The story alternates between the asteroids Vesta and Ceres. Centuries ago, when Vesta was colonized, the Sivadier syndicate brought only intellectual property rather than material goods. Members of the New Dispensation Movement see an injustice that they seek to redress by leveraging an increased tax on the descendants of the Sivadiers. No matter how insane Vestan resident Camille finds it, the NDM is gaining popularity:
"If the majority believe that they're the victims of injustice, it doesn't matter what the adjudicators say."The Four Thousand, The Eight Hundred is one of those books that I found thought-provoking in ways that I'm not sure the author intended. The core issue for the NDM is reparations: they want the Sivadiers to pay for what their ancestors did. In an era where the issue is very much in the public consciousness, Egan circumvents the real issues of reparation to create a strawman where the aggrieved are clearly out of line, a world away from the questions of systemic inequality broached today:
"A tiny group of vexatious litigants, powered by nothing but their own limitless sense of entitlement."Intentionally or not, this emphasizes what I believe to be the true role of reparations: to repair, to give new generations equal footing, to ensure that the injustices of the past do not continue to reverberate into the future.
The Sivadier descendants on Vesta are left with a terrible choice: pay the extortionate tax and accept a lessening of dignity, or fight. And if they fight, what actions can they take that will not contribute to an existential threat that will make them want to wipe us out ? If neither terrorism nor capitulation will help, what options are left? As both sides become increasingly angry, how can anyone prevent the escalation?
On Ceres, Anna is facing her own moral dilemma, a truly diabolical instance of the Trolley Problem, and that's where the story truly shines. As she puts it:
"We have a special name, here, for a certain kind of failure to defer to the greater good-- for putting a personal sense of doing right above any objective measure of the outcome. It's called 'moral vanity.' On Ceres, it's about the worst thing you can be accused of."It is in this philosophical forced choice that the story truly shines. While The Four Thousand, The Eight Hundred took me less than an hour to read, the questions it provoked stayed with me far longer, and what higher praise can there be?
I received this book through Netgalley from the publisher, Subterranean Press, in exchange for my honest review. Quotes were taken from an advanced reader copy and may not reflect the final phrasing.
~~Cross-posted on BookLikes.~~
February 6, 2017
A story about conscience and choices, spinning around the subversive faction of people from Vesta and their try to sabotage the system.
Interesting idea but I found the story somewhat flat and could not connect with most of the characters. Usually, when there is a choice like this to be made (not telling which is it), the reader should be tormented as the character in question; however, not even empathy was there for me.
But, despite all these, I liked the line of the story, Camille and the society on Ceres enough to make an enjoyable reading out of it.
Interesting idea but I found the story somewhat flat and could not connect with most of the characters. Usually, when there is a choice like this to be made (not telling which is it), the reader should be tormented as the character in question; however, not even empathy was there for me.
But, despite all these, I liked the line of the story, Camille and the society on Ceres enough to make an enjoyable reading out of it.
October 5, 2016
a "cold equations" for our times (ie a person in a position of some power must choose if to save the four thousand away or the eight hundred close) with a little more back story; not really my kind of story and characterization (which this story depends crucially on to make us care) is not the author's strong suit, so a readable but not particularly exciting or memorable story
April 2, 2022
This novella was a very quick read and allowed me to distance myself from Arbonne into which I was still!
I loved the idea of asteroids being inhabited by "human beings"; the reader glimpses a bigger world in which every planet or celestial body has been colonised. I also loved the fractured timeline: the reader gets to know the characters in the present and in the past. We can grow attached to some of them, get to understand them, why they acted the way they did, why they are where they are in the present, how the situation escalated.
But, I don't know if it is because of my last read or because of the novella itself, but I wasn't fully into it. The translation might have something to do with it - I read it in French. First, the title is not the same: it doesn't have the same implications. In the original title, the great dilemma is immediately to the forefront. In the French title, we just focus on the asteroids involved without revealing anything about the story itself. But that didn't really bother me. What did was the fact that some sentences, some things that happened weren't fully understandable. I don't know if it was because of the way the sentences were formed or because of the vocabulary used, but it wasn't always clear.
Moreover, the ending wasn't surprising to me: Actually, I don't think I grew attached to the characters, and that's why this novella won't stay with me for a long time.
It's still a fun ride that I would recommand for readers wanting to discover Greg Egan!
I loved the idea of asteroids being inhabited by "human beings"; the reader glimpses a bigger world in which every planet or celestial body has been colonised. I also loved the fractured timeline: the reader gets to know the characters in the present and in the past. We can grow attached to some of them, get to understand them, why they acted the way they did, why they are where they are in the present, how the situation escalated.
But, I don't know if it is because of my last read or because of the novella itself, but I wasn't fully into it. The translation might have something to do with it - I read it in French. First, the title is not the same: it doesn't have the same implications. In the original title, the great dilemma is immediately to the forefront. In the French title, we just focus on the asteroids involved without revealing anything about the story itself. But that didn't really bother me. What did was the fact that some sentences, some things that happened weren't fully understandable. I don't know if it was because of the way the sentences were formed or because of the vocabulary used, but it wasn't always clear.
Moreover, the ending wasn't surprising to me: Actually, I don't think I grew attached to the characters, and that's why this novella won't stay with me for a long time.
It's still a fun ride that I would recommand for readers wanting to discover Greg Egan!
October 12, 2016
https://koeur.wordpress.com/2016/10/1...
Publisher: Subterranean Press
Publishing Date: November 2016
ISBN: 9781596067912
Genre: SciFi
Rating: 2.4/5
Publishers Description: With “The Four Thousand, the Eight Hundred,” acclaimed author Greg Egan offers up a stellar, novella-length example of hard science fiction, as human and involving as it is insightful and philosophical.
Review: Early Vesta colonizers are getting persecuted and fleeing into the void, strapped to rocks while chemically suspended to survive the trip to Space Station Ceres. Ceres Director, Anna Dingbat must make some hard choices as the colonizers are labeled war criminals and pursued through space.
Holy moly this was boring. As a novella you would think that with the compressed story line, the movement would gallop at a good clip while developing the characters. Not so much here. The characters are thinly constructed so you really have no emotional investment in any outcome that may transpire. There was also an inordinate amount of dialogue, mostly about the greater good and the injustices of persecution. Wah. What stood out like a dick in a bowl of hot dogs was trying to force a big slice of social commentary down the gullet of hard Science Fiction. Didn’t work for me.
Publisher: Subterranean Press
Publishing Date: November 2016
ISBN: 9781596067912
Genre: SciFi
Rating: 2.4/5
Publishers Description: With “The Four Thousand, the Eight Hundred,” acclaimed author Greg Egan offers up a stellar, novella-length example of hard science fiction, as human and involving as it is insightful and philosophical.
Review: Early Vesta colonizers are getting persecuted and fleeing into the void, strapped to rocks while chemically suspended to survive the trip to Space Station Ceres. Ceres Director, Anna Dingbat must make some hard choices as the colonizers are labeled war criminals and pursued through space.
Holy moly this was boring. As a novella you would think that with the compressed story line, the movement would gallop at a good clip while developing the characters. Not so much here. The characters are thinly constructed so you really have no emotional investment in any outcome that may transpire. There was also an inordinate amount of dialogue, mostly about the greater good and the injustices of persecution. Wah. What stood out like a dick in a bowl of hot dogs was trying to force a big slice of social commentary down the gullet of hard Science Fiction. Didn’t work for me.
February 26, 2017
Je vais pas vous refaire le coup de présenter la collection « Une heure lumière » du bélial, Cérès et Vesta est le septième donc vous devez commencer à piger le truc, novellas SF, couverture qui tue d’Aurélien Police, bla, bla, tout ça, tout ça…
Cette dernière parution est un récit de Greg Egan d’une centaine de pages, un auteur que j’ai jamais lu mais qui officie dans l’art de la hard-SF (ce qui n’est pas de la SF porno, non…). Les Cérès et Vesta du titre sont deux astéroïdes qui ont été colonisés par l’homme. Chacun manque de ressources dont l’autre dispose donc un commerce permanent existe entre les deux colonies sous forme d’un flux continue de roche et de glace qui fait l’aller retour entre les deux cailloux. L’histoire nous plonge dans une crise sociale qui prend place sur Vesta, où les descendants des premières familles de colons se foutent sur la gueule pour des raisons… un peu stupides… Jugez donc : Ils ont tout à coup décidé que les citoyens issus de la famille Sivadier devraient payer un impôt en plus parce que cette famille n’avait contribué à la colonie que par des brevets et trucs administratifs mais sans jamais vraiment mettre les mains dans le cambouis comme tous les autres, ce qui avait convenu à tout le monde à l’époque mais les nouvelles générations se disent que c’est naze.
Histoire de faire bien puant, les colons de Vesta peuvent reconnaitre les descendants Sivadier au premier coup d’œil parce que c’est le futur et on a tous des google glass de la mort. Du coup ça donne des lancers d’insultes dans la rue, des regards à la con et ce genre de joyeusetés, ambiance. Les concernés commencent à migrer sur Cérès parce que c’est vraiment la merde, ils utilisent pour ça le flux de rocaille commerciale comme monture en se cryogénisant et se collant dessus. Un peu roots mais ça passe. Dans ce joyeux bordel on suivra plusieurs points de vue : Tout d’abord Camille, une Sivadier de Vesta qui va commencer un mouvement de résistance pour lutter contre ces injustices. On aura ensuite le point de vue de Cérès par le regard d’Anna, responsable d’un des quais de Cérès qui récupère les réfugiés congelés pour les aider à se remettre de leur voyage et à s’intégrer.
Évidemment, le livre parle beaucoup de racisme avec cette transposition. C’est pas vraiment un problème d’origine ethnique ici mais on retrouve les mêmes mécanismes, l’exclusion à la gueule, les insultes et la citoyenneté à deux niveaux. D’un point de vue social et construction, le message passe bien, il est percutant et permet à l’auteur de pousser son sujet jusqu’au bout. Le monde futuriste mis en place par Greg Egan est rudement bien construit et très réfléchi, on sent que le monsieur a de la bouteille dans le domaine. On a les détails technologiques et les petits gadgets bien vus, crédibles et qui donnent de l’épaisseur à l’univers. Le roman suit la naissance de cette ségrégation et les conséquences sur les habitants des deux colonies, partant du cas de Camille pour partir ensuite sur des conséquences plus politiques à travers une crise bien tendue comme il faut avec sa cargaison de dégueulasseries révoltantes.
Le sujet est globalement très bien présenté et l’ensemble est crédible. L’ambiance SF est prenante et permet de bien se plonger dans l’univers. Le problème que j’ai eu est assez commun a pas mal de trucs de hard-SF que j’ai essayé : Egan se concentre tellement sur la politique, la société et l’univers en général qu’il laisse un peu de côté la construction des personnages. D’après Apophis, c’est une caractéristique de l’auteur qui est bien connue mais ça m’a empêché de vraiment rentrer dans l’histoire et la problématique. Si je ne m’attache pas aux protagonistes, j’ai toujours du mal à me plonger dans un univers. Peut-être que les gros lecteurs de SF n’ont pas ce soucis mais je le rencontre régulièrement quand je lis ce genre.
Globalement, les personnages se résument à leurs prénoms mais on sait très peu de choses d’eux, il n’y a aucun effort de fait pour les rendre humains et créer de l’empathie chez le lecteur, laissant une impression de froideur qui me dérange toujours. Encore une fois c’est personnel, je ressens la même chose en lisant du Asimov ou du Simmons donc ça pourrait ne pas être un problème pour d’autres lecteurs, mais moi ça m’a bien sorti du truc. J’en avais rien à faire de Camille et de ces préoccupations, d’autant plus qu’elle fait pas les choix les plus subtils ni les plus malins dans son parcours (Je fais une mission de résistance dont je connais pas le but ni les instigateurs mais c’est pas grave).
Il faut aussi ajouter à ça une construction légèrement confuse, chaque chapitre change de point de vue entre Vesta et Cérès pour donner une vision globale du machin, mais ça encore ça va, c’est assez clair. Mais le plus perturbant c’est que les chapitres ne se placent pas dans la même époque, on change de chapitre et sans prévenir on s’aperçoit qu’on fait des bonds dans le temps, propulsant le lecteur deux ou trois ans plus tard sur Cérès sans prévenir pour revenir ensuite à l’époque d’origine en revenant sur Vesta. Ça s’explique parce que le mouvement de migration des réfugiés prend trois ans pour faire le voyage d’un astéroïde à l’autre donc on se balade dans le temps autant que dans l’espace. Finalement on s’y retrouve mais c’est pas super-fluide, moi qui était déjà pas super immergé, ça m’a un peu dérouté.
Cérès et Vesta est un récit de SF qui explore les problématiques d’exclusion et d’immigration avec pertinence et surtout une construction d’univers exemplaire. On a certainement là un grand auteur de SF mais le traitement secondaire réservé aux personnages m’a sorti de ma lecture, ce qui me fait dire que Greg Egan n’est peut-être pas un auteur pour moi (Et que j’ai décidément du mal avec la grosse SF hardcore qui tâche).
http://ours-inculte.fr/ceres-et-vesta/
Cette dernière parution est un récit de Greg Egan d’une centaine de pages, un auteur que j’ai jamais lu mais qui officie dans l’art de la hard-SF (ce qui n’est pas de la SF porno, non…). Les Cérès et Vesta du titre sont deux astéroïdes qui ont été colonisés par l’homme. Chacun manque de ressources dont l’autre dispose donc un commerce permanent existe entre les deux colonies sous forme d’un flux continue de roche et de glace qui fait l’aller retour entre les deux cailloux. L’histoire nous plonge dans une crise sociale qui prend place sur Vesta, où les descendants des premières familles de colons se foutent sur la gueule pour des raisons… un peu stupides… Jugez donc : Ils ont tout à coup décidé que les citoyens issus de la famille Sivadier devraient payer un impôt en plus parce que cette famille n’avait contribué à la colonie que par des brevets et trucs administratifs mais sans jamais vraiment mettre les mains dans le cambouis comme tous les autres, ce qui avait convenu à tout le monde à l’époque mais les nouvelles générations se disent que c’est naze.
Histoire de faire bien puant, les colons de Vesta peuvent reconnaitre les descendants Sivadier au premier coup d’œil parce que c’est le futur et on a tous des google glass de la mort. Du coup ça donne des lancers d’insultes dans la rue, des regards à la con et ce genre de joyeusetés, ambiance. Les concernés commencent à migrer sur Cérès parce que c’est vraiment la merde, ils utilisent pour ça le flux de rocaille commerciale comme monture en se cryogénisant et se collant dessus. Un peu roots mais ça passe. Dans ce joyeux bordel on suivra plusieurs points de vue : Tout d’abord Camille, une Sivadier de Vesta qui va commencer un mouvement de résistance pour lutter contre ces injustices. On aura ensuite le point de vue de Cérès par le regard d’Anna, responsable d’un des quais de Cérès qui récupère les réfugiés congelés pour les aider à se remettre de leur voyage et à s’intégrer.
Évidemment, le livre parle beaucoup de racisme avec cette transposition. C’est pas vraiment un problème d’origine ethnique ici mais on retrouve les mêmes mécanismes, l’exclusion à la gueule, les insultes et la citoyenneté à deux niveaux. D’un point de vue social et construction, le message passe bien, il est percutant et permet à l’auteur de pousser son sujet jusqu’au bout. Le monde futuriste mis en place par Greg Egan est rudement bien construit et très réfléchi, on sent que le monsieur a de la bouteille dans le domaine. On a les détails technologiques et les petits gadgets bien vus, crédibles et qui donnent de l’épaisseur à l’univers. Le roman suit la naissance de cette ségrégation et les conséquences sur les habitants des deux colonies, partant du cas de Camille pour partir ensuite sur des conséquences plus politiques à travers une crise bien tendue comme il faut avec sa cargaison de dégueulasseries révoltantes.
Le sujet est globalement très bien présenté et l’ensemble est crédible. L’ambiance SF est prenante et permet de bien se plonger dans l’univers. Le problème que j’ai eu est assez commun a pas mal de trucs de hard-SF que j’ai essayé : Egan se concentre tellement sur la politique, la société et l’univers en général qu’il laisse un peu de côté la construction des personnages. D’après Apophis, c’est une caractéristique de l’auteur qui est bien connue mais ça m’a empêché de vraiment rentrer dans l’histoire et la problématique. Si je ne m’attache pas aux protagonistes, j’ai toujours du mal à me plonger dans un univers. Peut-être que les gros lecteurs de SF n’ont pas ce soucis mais je le rencontre régulièrement quand je lis ce genre.
Globalement, les personnages se résument à leurs prénoms mais on sait très peu de choses d’eux, il n’y a aucun effort de fait pour les rendre humains et créer de l’empathie chez le lecteur, laissant une impression de froideur qui me dérange toujours. Encore une fois c’est personnel, je ressens la même chose en lisant du Asimov ou du Simmons donc ça pourrait ne pas être un problème pour d’autres lecteurs, mais moi ça m’a bien sorti du truc. J’en avais rien à faire de Camille et de ces préoccupations, d’autant plus qu’elle fait pas les choix les plus subtils ni les plus malins dans son parcours (Je fais une mission de résistance dont je connais pas le but ni les instigateurs mais c’est pas grave).
Il faut aussi ajouter à ça une construction légèrement confuse, chaque chapitre change de point de vue entre Vesta et Cérès pour donner une vision globale du machin, mais ça encore ça va, c’est assez clair. Mais le plus perturbant c’est que les chapitres ne se placent pas dans la même époque, on change de chapitre et sans prévenir on s’aperçoit qu’on fait des bonds dans le temps, propulsant le lecteur deux ou trois ans plus tard sur Cérès sans prévenir pour revenir ensuite à l’époque d’origine en revenant sur Vesta. Ça s’explique parce que le mouvement de migration des réfugiés prend trois ans pour faire le voyage d’un astéroïde à l’autre donc on se balade dans le temps autant que dans l’espace. Finalement on s’y retrouve mais c’est pas super-fluide, moi qui était déjà pas super immergé, ça m’a un peu dérouté.
Cérès et Vesta est un récit de SF qui explore les problématiques d’exclusion et d’immigration avec pertinence et surtout une construction d’univers exemplaire. On a certainement là un grand auteur de SF mais le traitement secondaire réservé aux personnages m’a sorti de ma lecture, ce qui me fait dire que Greg Egan n’est peut-être pas un auteur pour moi (Et que j’ai décidément du mal avec la grosse SF hardcore qui tâche).
http://ours-inculte.fr/ceres-et-vesta/
July 10, 2022
Une novella efficace et maîtrisée. Certains passages m'ont fait froid dans le dos quant à la capacité des humains à se montrer barbares et imbéciles.
June 10, 2017
I can't make up my mind if this should have been trimmed into a short or made into a novel. The basic premise, people of one family are taxed for their ancestry and resist is a good one and the first half would have made a good short. It falls apart in the second half when the lowly port director is the only one negotiating with a warship over very short period of time when the potential confrontation had been known for over a month. The results seemed forced and the ending seemed nonsensical. Needs some more time on the book tree or an axe is needed to wack off the last half.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
February 11, 2021
Cérès et Vesta est une novella de Greg Egan tout à fait accessible et fluide même à un(e) allergique à la hard science telle que moi. Profondément humaine, cette histoire nous parle d’ostracisme et des crises migratoires avec une narration intéressante alternant entre deux temporalités et deux points de vue. Passionnante, la novella manque parfois un peu d’approfondissement mais nous laisse pantois dans son final face à un choix impossible. J'ai adoré!
Pour lire la critique complète, rendez-vous sur yuyine.be!
Pour lire la critique complète, rendez-vous sur yuyine.be!
January 9, 2026
Je dois avouer que je suis passé un peu à côté de ce roman. Peut-être que je le relirais à l’occasion, mais cette entrée dans l’œuvre de Greg Egan a été compliquée. Je me suis vite perdu dans l’alternance des temporalités. L’aspiration des personnages est floue, l’enjeu m’échappe, et je dois dire que certains dialogues sont incompréhensibles. Il y avait tout de même de bons moments qui ont su me saisir, mais dans l’ensemble je n’ai pas apprécié.
December 17, 2019
I had really wanted to like this book by Egan, but it was missing the fascinating science that I had liked in his other book I read. In fact I actually found the story slow and rather dull. The majority of the plot dealt with politics and planning a rebellion, and well, I just find politics very boring! The message in the book is great, that I agree, it's just that the majority of the book was not interesting to me and it was putting me to sleep. Which is very sad. As I had really hoped it would be a great read.
One could easily skip from the first chapter to page 77 if you want the interesting bits. To find out if Camille is going to survive her journey riding on the outside of a giant rock. Or will she die in the cold vacuum of space, crushed to death?
The majority of the book is about doing what is right and fair to everyone...or to the majority. Is taxing certain people based on their ancestors correct? You know, your ancestors came from X so you have to pay high taxes but the other person's ancestors came from Y so he doesn't have to pay any. When things on one planet (or rock I should say) get out of control people invent a way to smuggle themselves to the other planet (or rock) where they have more freedom...but at great risk to their lives.
This novella is incredibly short, less than 100 pages, so a fast read.
One could easily skip from the first chapter to page 77 if you want the interesting bits. To find out if Camille is going to survive her journey riding on the outside of a giant rock. Or will she die in the cold vacuum of space, crushed to death?
The majority of the book is about doing what is right and fair to everyone...or to the majority. Is taxing certain people based on their ancestors correct? You know, your ancestors came from X so you have to pay high taxes but the other person's ancestors came from Y so he doesn't have to pay any. When things on one planet (or rock I should say) get out of control people invent a way to smuggle themselves to the other planet (or rock) where they have more freedom...but at great risk to their lives.
This novella is incredibly short, less than 100 pages, so a fast read.
November 10, 2016
7'5/10
An interesting novella, easier than other works I´ve read by this great author. The sociological speculation about migrations and refugees in space is very original.
Review in english: http://dreamsofelvex.blogspot.com/201...
Review in spanish: http://dreamsofelvex.blogspot.com/201...
An interesting novella, easier than other works I´ve read by this great author. The sociological speculation about migrations and refugees in space is very original.
Review in english: http://dreamsofelvex.blogspot.com/201...
Review in spanish: http://dreamsofelvex.blogspot.com/201...
June 19, 2019
Trolley problem in space. Barrel of laughs it was not.
June 3, 2020
Un racconto di Egan molto intenso e ancora una volta abbastanza diverso dai suoi precedenti.
Una space opera sì, ma machiavellica nei giochi della politica: si vede che Egan è uno attento ai dilemmi etici, oltre che alla plausibilità della fantascienza dura: i numeri nel titolo non sono uno dei suoi giochi matematici, ma una crudele contabilità..
Vesta e Cerere sono due asteroidi minerari legati da intensi scambi commerciali: l'uno estrae minerale per l'altro, che invia in cambio blocchi di ghiaccio. Su Vesta, una minoranza discriminata ricorre a una guerriglia puramente dimostrativa, ma quando le autorità decidono di trattarli come veri terroristi, e Cerere decide di dare asilo a un gruppo di dissidenti in fuga, un conflitto scala rapidamente di livello.
Si può aggredire il nemico anche senza danneggiarlo materialmente..
Prossimamente su Delos!
Una space opera sì, ma machiavellica nei giochi della politica: si vede che Egan è uno attento ai dilemmi etici, oltre che alla plausibilità della fantascienza dura: i numeri nel titolo non sono uno dei suoi giochi matematici, ma una crudele contabilità..
Vesta e Cerere sono due asteroidi minerari legati da intensi scambi commerciali: l'uno estrae minerale per l'altro, che invia in cambio blocchi di ghiaccio. Su Vesta, una minoranza discriminata ricorre a una guerriglia puramente dimostrativa, ma quando le autorità decidono di trattarli come veri terroristi, e Cerere decide di dare asilo a un gruppo di dissidenti in fuga, un conflitto scala rapidamente di livello.
Si può aggredire il nemico anche senza danneggiarlo materialmente..
Prossimamente su Delos!
April 20, 2021
Un racconto di Egan molto intenso e ancora una volta abbastanza diverso dai suoi precedenti.
Una space opera sì, ma machiavellica nei giochi della politica: si vede che Egan è uno attento ai dilemmi etici, oltre che alla plausibilità della fantascienza dura: i numeri nel titolo non sono uno dei suoi giochi matematici, ma una crudele contabilità..
Vesta e Cerere sono due asteroidi minerari legati da intensi scambi commerciali: l'uno estrae minerale per l'altro, che invia in cambio blocchi di ghiaccio. Su Vesta, una minoranza discriminata ricorre a una guerriglia puramente dimostrativa, ma quando le autorità decidono di trattarli come veri terroristi, e Cerere decide di dare asilo a un gruppo di dissidenti in fuga, un conflitto scala rapidamente di livello.
Si può aggredire il nemico anche senza danneggiarlo materialmente..
Prossimamente su Delos!
Una space opera sì, ma machiavellica nei giochi della politica: si vede che Egan è uno attento ai dilemmi etici, oltre che alla plausibilità della fantascienza dura: i numeri nel titolo non sono uno dei suoi giochi matematici, ma una crudele contabilità..
Vesta e Cerere sono due asteroidi minerari legati da intensi scambi commerciali: l'uno estrae minerale per l'altro, che invia in cambio blocchi di ghiaccio. Su Vesta, una minoranza discriminata ricorre a una guerriglia puramente dimostrativa, ma quando le autorità decidono di trattarli come veri terroristi, e Cerere decide di dare asilo a un gruppo di dissidenti in fuga, un conflitto scala rapidamente di livello.
Si può aggredire il nemico anche senza danneggiarlo materialmente..
Prossimamente su Delos!
October 6, 2016
*copy from Netgalley in exchange for a review*
The Four Thousand, The Eight Hundred is a sci-fi novella by Greg Egan. It’s rather dense, exploring the themes of otherness, of democracy, disenfranchisement, and the role of a moral centre. It also talks about asteroids used as building materials, and explores the social norms of societies on other worlds. Yes, that does mean rather a lot is going on.
There are two worlds on display here – one a seemingly egalitarian society, work apportioned to those who need it, and another, where, a century after settlement, there’s question of debt. The latter is intriguing. In a society where the founders wealth was measured in the tonnage they could bring into orbit, and then to the moon they were colonising, the intangible is, understandably, less visible. But there is a minority in this novella, descendants of founders who sold their intellects, who held patents on mining drills, on methods of extraction, and used that leverage to be part of the original landing team.
A century later, a minority group has pushed, and pushed, to look on the descendants of those users of intellectual property as freeloaders. The text is looking at the way society deals with pressure – in this case, perhaps, by creating a sense of otherness, by legitimising discontent with certain aspects of that society. The question of whether those descendants of intellectual ‘pirates’ owe a debt is thrown open to the popular vote – and is approved by a slim margin. This may reflect concerns in contemporary politics, but it also allows the text to explore the concerns of the tyranny of the majority. This is a story which is exploring the strengths and weaknesses of systems, but also those of people. As a ballot measure to declare a minority of the population on one moon in debt to the others gathers pace, there’s a feeling of disbelief, then acceptance…and then a reaction, a counter reaction, and an escalating process of havoc.
Looking in through the window of contemporary politics, this is well, and neutrally done - where the characters struggle against an injustice, it seems clear to them that it is one (and indeed, is portrayed to the reader in this way). The majority of the populace, however, are not portrayed as malevolent, merely acting on opinions which impact those around them. In this space, there is also sanctuary – the other moon, the duo pushing ice and building material back and forth in a ring of trade. Here, things are different – at least in that they’re not fighting amongst themselves. Here they accept the “riders”, individuals entering a hibernation state, strapped to an asteroid, risking destruction whilst seeking sanctuary. It’s a world which, if not equal, is certainly not self-harming in an orgy of otherness, as we watch their cousins do.
The characters – well, I would have liked more space for them here. That said, given the length of the novella, they do well enough. There’s the member of a minority, gently sucked into actions that they don’t entirely agree with, feeling their way along the process of escalation before absconding. There’s the third party, not immediately impacted, but with an increasing zeal. And there’s those looking in from the outside, sorrowful, trying to put some of the pieces back together again afterward. If I didn’t see enough of the protagonists, they were present enough in the text to feel genuine, to add a sense of humanity to a piece of sci-fi which is largely driven by social issues – by focusing those issues down, and giving us a view of their impact on the individual.
The plot looks at the rise of intolerance in one of the two moons, of the way in which part of their own population is slowly disenfranchised, and then reacts. Of the way society reacts to that reaction, slowly driving both parties to extremes. But it’s also a story of people fleeing that society, of having the personal courage to strap themselves to revolving pieces of rock and throw themselves into an interstellar void, with a chance at a better life at the end. There’s also the view from the outside, as a member of the uninvolved interacts with an escapee, and draws their own moral lines, perhaps not in line with their social expectations, but in line with what they consider human – a discussion which can be opened with every reader, that. Not where you draw the line, but whether the line must, at some stage, be drawn.
In any event, this is an interesting piece of sci-fi. It uses its short length to full effect, drawing a plausible universe, one where the impact of character’s choices will hit the reader just as ahrd. It’s looking at some of the issues which affect us as societies, and exploring how those issues might play out in a future context, It’s clever work, ad rewards close reading. If you’re in the mood for a read which is challenging, and encourages reader engagement in a plausible sci-fi premise, then this is worth looking at. It’s short, but packs a serious narrative and emotional punch.
The Four Thousand, The Eight Hundred is a sci-fi novella by Greg Egan. It’s rather dense, exploring the themes of otherness, of democracy, disenfranchisement, and the role of a moral centre. It also talks about asteroids used as building materials, and explores the social norms of societies on other worlds. Yes, that does mean rather a lot is going on.
There are two worlds on display here – one a seemingly egalitarian society, work apportioned to those who need it, and another, where, a century after settlement, there’s question of debt. The latter is intriguing. In a society where the founders wealth was measured in the tonnage they could bring into orbit, and then to the moon they were colonising, the intangible is, understandably, less visible. But there is a minority in this novella, descendants of founders who sold their intellects, who held patents on mining drills, on methods of extraction, and used that leverage to be part of the original landing team.
A century later, a minority group has pushed, and pushed, to look on the descendants of those users of intellectual property as freeloaders. The text is looking at the way society deals with pressure – in this case, perhaps, by creating a sense of otherness, by legitimising discontent with certain aspects of that society. The question of whether those descendants of intellectual ‘pirates’ owe a debt is thrown open to the popular vote – and is approved by a slim margin. This may reflect concerns in contemporary politics, but it also allows the text to explore the concerns of the tyranny of the majority. This is a story which is exploring the strengths and weaknesses of systems, but also those of people. As a ballot measure to declare a minority of the population on one moon in debt to the others gathers pace, there’s a feeling of disbelief, then acceptance…and then a reaction, a counter reaction, and an escalating process of havoc.
Looking in through the window of contemporary politics, this is well, and neutrally done - where the characters struggle against an injustice, it seems clear to them that it is one (and indeed, is portrayed to the reader in this way). The majority of the populace, however, are not portrayed as malevolent, merely acting on opinions which impact those around them. In this space, there is also sanctuary – the other moon, the duo pushing ice and building material back and forth in a ring of trade. Here, things are different – at least in that they’re not fighting amongst themselves. Here they accept the “riders”, individuals entering a hibernation state, strapped to an asteroid, risking destruction whilst seeking sanctuary. It’s a world which, if not equal, is certainly not self-harming in an orgy of otherness, as we watch their cousins do.
The characters – well, I would have liked more space for them here. That said, given the length of the novella, they do well enough. There’s the member of a minority, gently sucked into actions that they don’t entirely agree with, feeling their way along the process of escalation before absconding. There’s the third party, not immediately impacted, but with an increasing zeal. And there’s those looking in from the outside, sorrowful, trying to put some of the pieces back together again afterward. If I didn’t see enough of the protagonists, they were present enough in the text to feel genuine, to add a sense of humanity to a piece of sci-fi which is largely driven by social issues – by focusing those issues down, and giving us a view of their impact on the individual.
The plot looks at the rise of intolerance in one of the two moons, of the way in which part of their own population is slowly disenfranchised, and then reacts. Of the way society reacts to that reaction, slowly driving both parties to extremes. But it’s also a story of people fleeing that society, of having the personal courage to strap themselves to revolving pieces of rock and throw themselves into an interstellar void, with a chance at a better life at the end. There’s also the view from the outside, as a member of the uninvolved interacts with an escapee, and draws their own moral lines, perhaps not in line with their social expectations, but in line with what they consider human – a discussion which can be opened with every reader, that. Not where you draw the line, but whether the line must, at some stage, be drawn.
In any event, this is an interesting piece of sci-fi. It uses its short length to full effect, drawing a plausible universe, one where the impact of character’s choices will hit the reader just as ahrd. It’s looking at some of the issues which affect us as societies, and exploring how those issues might play out in a future context, It’s clever work, ad rewards close reading. If you’re in the mood for a read which is challenging, and encourages reader engagement in a plausible sci-fi premise, then this is worth looking at. It’s short, but packs a serious narrative and emotional punch.
November 10, 2019
This novella length work (96 pages in hardcover) was first published in the December 2015 Isaac Asimov’s SF Magazine, and will soon be released stand-alone in hardcover and kindle format by Subterranean Press. I received a kindle format ebook at no cost, prior to release, in return for publishing an honest review.
The setting is on the two largest asteroids Vesta and Ceres, each of which has a significant settlement involved in asteroid harvesting. Interestingly, the economy is inverted – people pay to work, and so cash flows from provider to consumer. On Vesta, a rift between those descended from one of the original settlers and the rest of the population has developed into open conflict. The opening passage describes the escape of one of the rebels from Vesta, and then the story goes back to tell how the conflict came about. Meanwhile, the other storyline is on Ceres, which is receiving the refugees one by one.
This is hard-sf and so the orbital mechanics and the physics/chemistry are detailed and realistic. The cultures of the two small worlds are believable, and the growing unintentional conflict is all too believable. Egan sets up a dilemma in utilitarian ethics for the Ceres traffic controller. I won’t discuss my thoughts on that dilemma, to avoid spoilers, but it is a credit to Egan how it is only in retrospect that I realized just how speculative that whole situation is. Perfectly believable at the time.
Due to my professional background, I pay particular attention to the portrayal of MRI in science fiction. In his near-future novel Zendegi, Egan based quite a bit of speculative concept on MRI, and I felt that he stretched things beyond mere technological improvement into an alteration of physics. In this novella, MRI is described as capable of revealing an “intact pressure suit and the living form within”. The thing is, it is protons in the dipolar hydrogen atoms of water that are excited during MRI, and water-containing tissues are what can be distinguished. I doubt the pressure suit mentioned is constituted of water much - and if metalic could introduce significant imaging artifacts on human tissues. I mention this as a personal nit – in the case of this novella, it doesn’t have very much important to do with the plot.
I did enjoy this novella, it being just the right length to develop the ethical issues and comment on them. Unlike the reputation of hard-sf, these characters are believable and sympathetic. I recommend it.
The setting is on the two largest asteroids Vesta and Ceres, each of which has a significant settlement involved in asteroid harvesting. Interestingly, the economy is inverted – people pay to work, and so cash flows from provider to consumer. On Vesta, a rift between those descended from one of the original settlers and the rest of the population has developed into open conflict. The opening passage describes the escape of one of the rebels from Vesta, and then the story goes back to tell how the conflict came about. Meanwhile, the other storyline is on Ceres, which is receiving the refugees one by one.
This is hard-sf and so the orbital mechanics and the physics/chemistry are detailed and realistic. The cultures of the two small worlds are believable, and the growing unintentional conflict is all too believable. Egan sets up a dilemma in utilitarian ethics for the Ceres traffic controller. I won’t discuss my thoughts on that dilemma, to avoid spoilers, but it is a credit to Egan how it is only in retrospect that I realized just how speculative that whole situation is. Perfectly believable at the time.
Due to my professional background, I pay particular attention to the portrayal of MRI in science fiction. In his near-future novel Zendegi, Egan based quite a bit of speculative concept on MRI, and I felt that he stretched things beyond mere technological improvement into an alteration of physics. In this novella, MRI is described as capable of revealing an “intact pressure suit and the living form within”. The thing is, it is protons in the dipolar hydrogen atoms of water that are excited during MRI, and water-containing tissues are what can be distinguished. I doubt the pressure suit mentioned is constituted of water much - and if metalic could introduce significant imaging artifacts on human tissues. I mention this as a personal nit – in the case of this novella, it doesn’t have very much important to do with the plot.
I did enjoy this novella, it being just the right length to develop the ethical issues and comment on them. Unlike the reputation of hard-sf, these characters are believable and sympathetic. I recommend it.
February 7, 2017
I expected more science and less politics from Greg Egan.
August 16, 2017
Cérès et Vesta sont 2 astéroïdes du système solaire qui partagent quelques similitudes, mais une vision de la vie divergente. Sur Vesta, l’ostracisme que subissent les descendants des Sivadier est arbitraire et imbécile, incompréhensible même (comme beaucoup de positions de cette nature). Non seulement cette politique publique se traduit par des comportements méprisables, de l’incivilité de base aux insultes, mais en sus une goute de ce sang dans vos veines vous expose à une taxe supplémentaire de 10% des revenus et ce, quelque soit votre position sociale. Le pourquoi mérite d’être découvert à la lecture, sachez que le fondement reste mesquin.
Camille fait partie de ces personnes désignées par ce choix politique, aussi subit-elle régulièrement les assauts de la vindicte imbécile des abrutis. Son compagnon, Olivier, la soutient, et tous deux entrent en résistance civile. La tension devient telle que les descendants s’exilent volontairement vers une Terre d’accueil plus agréable et accueillante, la sympathique Cérès. Le moyen est à la fois rudimentaire et élaboré, tout en présentant un risque certain ; ils deviennent des surfeurs, et voyagent dissimulés dans des blocs de glace à destination de Cérès.
La structure du récit n’est pas linéaire, et participe grandement à la montée en pression du lecteur. En effet, les chapitres alternent entre le parcours sur Vesta de Camille et de son compagnon pendant cette période, et l’attente de son arrivée par Olivier (qui a surfé avant elle) et Anna, la responsable du port cérésien.
l’émotion dégagée est palpable avec cette « apogée » finale. L’aspect science n’est pas le cœur de Cérès et Vesta, sans qu’il faille écarter d’un revers de la main ce que nous présente l’auteur. La faible gravité est prise en compte et l’immersion dans cette façon de vivre différente est réussie : locomotion, prise en compte de la circulation sanguine,…. La description de l’envoi des blocs de glace est particulièrement séduisante, et j’ai beaucoup aimé cet aspect du texte.
La fin est frappante mais tout est construit pour aboutir à cette ultime étape, histoire de marquer le lecteur. Trop.
Les intentions et les messages sont clairs, nets et appuyés, et la réalisation de l’ensemble un peu trop dichotomique, sans aucune subtilité ou nuance (dans la thématique). Du coup, le texte m’apparaît un peu trop consensuel et presque moralisateur. Qui ne souhaite pas la paix dans le monde, le bonheur pour tous, la fin de la misère, l’éradication des maladies ? Hélas, la bonté et la tolérance ne peuvent pas être les seuls moteurs de notre monde.
Certes, l’auteur a le mérite d’aborder des thématiques politiques actuelles et loin de flatter la grandeur de l’homme, mais le format ne convient pas à l’ambition; le texte souffre donc de trop de coups de serpe.
Camille fait partie de ces personnes désignées par ce choix politique, aussi subit-elle régulièrement les assauts de la vindicte imbécile des abrutis. Son compagnon, Olivier, la soutient, et tous deux entrent en résistance civile. La tension devient telle que les descendants s’exilent volontairement vers une Terre d’accueil plus agréable et accueillante, la sympathique Cérès. Le moyen est à la fois rudimentaire et élaboré, tout en présentant un risque certain ; ils deviennent des surfeurs, et voyagent dissimulés dans des blocs de glace à destination de Cérès.
La structure du récit n’est pas linéaire, et participe grandement à la montée en pression du lecteur. En effet, les chapitres alternent entre le parcours sur Vesta de Camille et de son compagnon pendant cette période, et l’attente de son arrivée par Olivier (qui a surfé avant elle) et Anna, la responsable du port cérésien.
l’émotion dégagée est palpable avec cette « apogée » finale. L’aspect science n’est pas le cœur de Cérès et Vesta, sans qu’il faille écarter d’un revers de la main ce que nous présente l’auteur. La faible gravité est prise en compte et l’immersion dans cette façon de vivre différente est réussie : locomotion, prise en compte de la circulation sanguine,…. La description de l’envoi des blocs de glace est particulièrement séduisante, et j’ai beaucoup aimé cet aspect du texte.
La fin est frappante mais tout est construit pour aboutir à cette ultime étape, histoire de marquer le lecteur. Trop.
Les intentions et les messages sont clairs, nets et appuyés, et la réalisation de l’ensemble un peu trop dichotomique, sans aucune subtilité ou nuance (dans la thématique). Du coup, le texte m’apparaît un peu trop consensuel et presque moralisateur. Qui ne souhaite pas la paix dans le monde, le bonheur pour tous, la fin de la misère, l’éradication des maladies ? Hélas, la bonté et la tolérance ne peuvent pas être les seuls moteurs de notre monde.
Certes, l’auteur a le mérite d’aborder des thématiques politiques actuelles et loin de flatter la grandeur de l’homme, mais le format ne convient pas à l’ambition; le texte souffre donc de trop de coups de serpe.
July 15, 2018
A Modern Tragedy
The title of the book refers to a type of thought-experiment often used in moral philosophy (that I won't spell out in case you haven't read the book yet), an ethical dilemma that a philosophy student must argue. However, Egan (thank you!) does not try to prove or slant one view over another in his telling.
A long short-story from 2016, I think Egan wished to respond to things going on in our own time. While this book addresses Refugees, Oppressive Governments, Identity Politics, Intellectual Property and a dozen other hot-today issues, I feel the author does not have any axes to grind on these issues.
Rather than trying to "say" something, I feel the book is posing questions, to invite discussion and dialogue in a scenario where none of his readers have personal investment. Sure, we all take stands on these issues when we ourselves, or someone we know is involved in of these issues. But Egan makes the issues unfamiliar, so we can be more objective about our assessments. In this sense, Egan is preparing us to be better philosophers, ethicists, friends, advocates and politicians in our own future (maybe the day after we finish this book). So Egan is RESPONDING, without feeding us answers to issues in our own time, I feel.
That said, one thing I took as a message (but maybe I am reading too much into it because it's hot for me?) begins with this quote from page 40:
"... They have had a life every bit as good as ours--just as safe, just as prosperous--and like us, a lot of bored, aimless people who'd never really found any purpose. But then they realized they could fill that hole by inventing a grievance, and taking sides, and refusing to be swayed no matter what. Maybe you think we're immune to that kind of thing, but I don't"
Now, this quote comes from a character we don't really like or trust, so we can't take this as Egan's own view or voice. Still, the population described is remarkably similar to a population getting a lot of press in 2016. In Egan's future, this population makes some choices that lead to the book's title dilemma, and the book's Purpose, which I consider a Tragedy.
Tragedy, often is intended as a warning, "be careful doing this because it may lead to awful results." So if there is one literal message in this book, I feel it would be that message. You'll have to read the book to know what it was this population was doing, that (I think) Egan was warning us to be careful about.
The title of the book refers to a type of thought-experiment often used in moral philosophy (that I won't spell out in case you haven't read the book yet), an ethical dilemma that a philosophy student must argue. However, Egan (thank you!) does not try to prove or slant one view over another in his telling.
A long short-story from 2016, I think Egan wished to respond to things going on in our own time. While this book addresses Refugees, Oppressive Governments, Identity Politics, Intellectual Property and a dozen other hot-today issues, I feel the author does not have any axes to grind on these issues.
Rather than trying to "say" something, I feel the book is posing questions, to invite discussion and dialogue in a scenario where none of his readers have personal investment. Sure, we all take stands on these issues when we ourselves, or someone we know is involved in of these issues. But Egan makes the issues unfamiliar, so we can be more objective about our assessments. In this sense, Egan is preparing us to be better philosophers, ethicists, friends, advocates and politicians in our own future (maybe the day after we finish this book). So Egan is RESPONDING, without feeding us answers to issues in our own time, I feel.
That said, one thing I took as a message (but maybe I am reading too much into it because it's hot for me?) begins with this quote from page 40:
"... They have had a life every bit as good as ours--just as safe, just as prosperous--and like us, a lot of bored, aimless people who'd never really found any purpose. But then they realized they could fill that hole by inventing a grievance, and taking sides, and refusing to be swayed no matter what. Maybe you think we're immune to that kind of thing, but I don't"
Now, this quote comes from a character we don't really like or trust, so we can't take this as Egan's own view or voice. Still, the population described is remarkably similar to a population getting a lot of press in 2016. In Egan's future, this population makes some choices that lead to the book's title dilemma, and the book's Purpose, which I consider a Tragedy.
Tragedy, often is intended as a warning, "be careful doing this because it may lead to awful results." So if there is one literal message in this book, I feel it would be that message. You'll have to read the book to know what it was this population was doing, that (I think) Egan was warning us to be careful about.
January 31, 2017
The Four Thousand, the Eight Hundred by Greg Egan is a science fiction novella set on two large asteroids out in the asteroid belt: Vesta and Ceres. It is a quick and compelling read more about morality than technology, although of course there is technology in it.
I enjoyed this book and found it interesting, but I wouldn’t call it a happy read. The story follows a few characters on Vesta where something akin to racial tensions are coming to a head. Of the founding families, one has been singled out as having not pulled their weight (because they contributed intellectual property rather than physical technology to the settlement) and their descendants are being are now targeted. The main characters on Vesta are some of these descendants and their friends/sympathisers mounting a resistance against the bigotry targeting them.
The Ceres sections of the novella are set a few years later than the Vestan parts and mainly follow the Director of the Ceres colony as she interacts with Vestan refugees. In both settings there is discussion of morality, from different perspectives, and a few different moral questions are faced by the characters. The story doesn’t really resolve these questions — mostly because there are no right answers, I suspect — and leaves us only with a chapter in the characters’ lives closing. We do not know all the details of what happens next.
I enjoyed The Four Thousand, the Eight Hundred and found it a compelling read, especially after I got past the first chapter and got a better idea of what the story was about. I recommend it to fans of science fiction and political stories. As I mentioned, aside from being set on asteroids and taking the relevant environmental factors into account in the background, there isn’t very much science (or, well, technobabble) in this story. If that’s something that often puts you off SF, then I still recommend giving The Four Thousand, the Eight Hundred a shot.
4 / 5 stars
You can find more reviews on my blog.
I enjoyed this book and found it interesting, but I wouldn’t call it a happy read. The story follows a few characters on Vesta where something akin to racial tensions are coming to a head. Of the founding families, one has been singled out as having not pulled their weight (because they contributed intellectual property rather than physical technology to the settlement) and their descendants are being are now targeted. The main characters on Vesta are some of these descendants and their friends/sympathisers mounting a resistance against the bigotry targeting them.
The Ceres sections of the novella are set a few years later than the Vestan parts and mainly follow the Director of the Ceres colony as she interacts with Vestan refugees. In both settings there is discussion of morality, from different perspectives, and a few different moral questions are faced by the characters. The story doesn’t really resolve these questions — mostly because there are no right answers, I suspect — and leaves us only with a chapter in the characters’ lives closing. We do not know all the details of what happens next.
I enjoyed The Four Thousand, the Eight Hundred and found it a compelling read, especially after I got past the first chapter and got a better idea of what the story was about. I recommend it to fans of science fiction and political stories. As I mentioned, aside from being set on asteroids and taking the relevant environmental factors into account in the background, there isn’t very much science (or, well, technobabble) in this story. If that’s something that often puts you off SF, then I still recommend giving The Four Thousand, the Eight Hundred a shot.
4 / 5 stars
You can find more reviews on my blog.
December 20, 2021
The Four Thousand, the Eight Hundred, c’est le titre original de cette nouvelle d’une centaine de pages, de monsieur Greg so-mysterious Egan, auteur australien refusant de voir des photos de lui sur le net. C’est édité par le Bélial, dans leur collection Une heure-lumière.
Bon alors, Cérès et Vesta, c’est quoi donc? C’est de la hard sf, un genre qu’affectionne l’auteur, et ça nous parle de deux colonies humaines, regroupées dans les entrailles de ces petits planétoïdes que sont… Cérès et Vesta. Entre elles, le commerce va bien, l’un échangeant son eau contre la roche de l’autre. Clairement ce n’est pas la joie non plus, mais voilà un principe intelligent d’échanges qui nous est présenté. Oui sauf que… Les Migrants! Les Migrants sont là, cherchant à fuir les persécutions sur Vesta, fuyant vers Cérès après un voyage hasardeux de trois ans. Ce sont les Sivadier, membres et descendants d’une famille ayant su prospérer par le biais de brevets plutôt qu’à la sueur de leur front, et cela ne plaît pas. Les voici donc contraint à l’exil, sous peine de lynchages et autres joyeusetés, typiques de l’humain.
Je n’ai encore rien lu d’autre de Greg Egan, mais son style me plaît bien. Une nouvelle comme celle-ci, c’est peut-être un peu court pour juger, mais l’environnement est cohérent, les descriptifs de technologies nous amènent à réfléchir sur leur usage et les raisons de leur emploi, les sociétés des deux planétoïdes sont également intéressantes, mais il semble évident que les relations sociales, ce n’est pas la tasse de thé de l’auteur! L’écriture incite en tout cas à dévorer ces quelques dizaines de pages et à se retrouver avec une œuvre, oui, trop brève, mais possédant une intrigue bien fichue, avec une petite technique bien sympathique en prime.
Bon alors, Cérès et Vesta, c’est quoi donc? C’est de la hard sf, un genre qu’affectionne l’auteur, et ça nous parle de deux colonies humaines, regroupées dans les entrailles de ces petits planétoïdes que sont… Cérès et Vesta. Entre elles, le commerce va bien, l’un échangeant son eau contre la roche de l’autre. Clairement ce n’est pas la joie non plus, mais voilà un principe intelligent d’échanges qui nous est présenté. Oui sauf que… Les Migrants! Les Migrants sont là, cherchant à fuir les persécutions sur Vesta, fuyant vers Cérès après un voyage hasardeux de trois ans. Ce sont les Sivadier, membres et descendants d’une famille ayant su prospérer par le biais de brevets plutôt qu’à la sueur de leur front, et cela ne plaît pas. Les voici donc contraint à l’exil, sous peine de lynchages et autres joyeusetés, typiques de l’humain.
Je n’ai encore rien lu d’autre de Greg Egan, mais son style me plaît bien. Une nouvelle comme celle-ci, c’est peut-être un peu court pour juger, mais l’environnement est cohérent, les descriptifs de technologies nous amènent à réfléchir sur leur usage et les raisons de leur emploi, les sociétés des deux planétoïdes sont également intéressantes, mais il semble évident que les relations sociales, ce n’est pas la tasse de thé de l’auteur! L’écriture incite en tout cas à dévorer ces quelques dizaines de pages et à se retrouver avec une œuvre, oui, trop brève, mais possédant une intrigue bien fichue, avec une petite technique bien sympathique en prime.
September 8, 2018
A human story wrapped in solid science fact and a challenging moral dilemma, this is Greg Egan's short fiction at its best.
Social conditions are deteriorating on Vesta, a settled rock in Earth's asteroid belt, spurring waves of refugees to ride the cargo stream of shaped boulders from Vesta to Ceres. Port administrator Anna of Ceres is in charge of receiving these refugees, but when Vesta demands she refuse docking for a transport shuttle full of people, she is thrust into a moral dilemma: turn away the shuttle, or allow it to dock and endanger the riders still in transit from Vesta to Ceres?
This short, focused story takes on the utilitarian argument that morality can be calculated numerically, and in the end, Egan doesn't offer an easy answer. In fact, the last scene suggests that the argument itself is no good.
Social conditions are deteriorating on Vesta, a settled rock in Earth's asteroid belt, spurring waves of refugees to ride the cargo stream of shaped boulders from Vesta to Ceres. Port administrator Anna of Ceres is in charge of receiving these refugees, but when Vesta demands she refuse docking for a transport shuttle full of people, she is thrust into a moral dilemma: turn away the shuttle, or allow it to dock and endanger the riders still in transit from Vesta to Ceres?
This short, focused story takes on the utilitarian argument that morality can be calculated numerically, and in the end, Egan doesn't offer an easy answer. In fact, the last scene suggests that the argument itself is no good.
December 11, 2018
Wow. This book was a novella, and was only 89 pages long. I will say I am very glad I didn't just run across it in the library because I would have likely not checked it out. I read about it on line, it sounded good and I ordered it though the library system.
The reason I wouldn't have normally checked it out is that the blurb on the cover refers to HARD Science Fiction. I don't really like that type. I don't want to waste time trying to understand the "science" because I don't understand science. I want to read science fiction because of "the human interest angle". Even if the beings are not human, I want to read about how their society works culturally not how their technology is done.
Fortunately, I enjoyed this book because it really wasn't that "hard". It is basically about two inhabited asteroids, both of which are inhabited. There is an upheaval on one, and Camille is the character introduced at the very beginning who is fleeing her home to go to another asteroid.
The story is all about the political situation and as usual, humans, regardless of where they live, have found a way to have an us versus them reaction. Camille, and others are fleeing discrimination, and the story is about how that happens, and the end results.
It is an enjoyable read, and I finished the book basically in one or two sitings during a single day.
The reason I wouldn't have normally checked it out is that the blurb on the cover refers to HARD Science Fiction. I don't really like that type. I don't want to waste time trying to understand the "science" because I don't understand science. I want to read science fiction because of "the human interest angle". Even if the beings are not human, I want to read about how their society works culturally not how their technology is done.
Fortunately, I enjoyed this book because it really wasn't that "hard". It is basically about two inhabited asteroids, both of which are inhabited. There is an upheaval on one, and Camille is the character introduced at the very beginning who is fleeing her home to go to another asteroid.
The story is all about the political situation and as usual, humans, regardless of where they live, have found a way to have an us versus them reaction. Camille, and others are fleeing discrimination, and the story is about how that happens, and the end results.
It is an enjoyable read, and I finished the book basically in one or two sitings during a single day.
January 7, 2018
If you're not familiar with the Trolley Dilemma, it goes like this:
You're on a train that's traveling toward a group of five rail workers. You have time to force the trolley onto another line, where only one worker is standing, so you can either do nothing and kill five people, or make a choice and actively kill one person. It's an ethical dilemma that presents choice as the factor in guilt.
The Four Thousand, the Eight Hundred is a short book that sets the Trolley Dilemma in space. Anna is a newly-appointed director on an asteroid, tasked with collecting refugees from another colonized asteroid, as they begin floating in on derelict cocoon ships. She's ultimately faced with the challenge of saving either the four thousand refugees, or the eight hundred other refugees on a ferry that is supposed to dock on the other asteroid. Cue the conclusion.
The journey to that decision is an interesting one, which parallels a lot of the trouble the US is having with its current political arena. The incident that spurs the refugees into action involves politics, racism, and classism, so it's a lot to think about in terms of our own lives, even before the dilemma presents itself. The conclusion, though, feels banal against the conditions that started the action, and it seems to shift the emotional turmoil from the refugees to Anna, who has to make that choice. It seemed like Egan gave short shrift to the people escaping their oppression, even though the bulk of the story was about their struggle.
Egan is a decent writer. His characters weren't lively, but they were distinct, and he captured their conflicts well. This novella just doesn't seem like the best place to start with the author. It gave me reason to track down another book of his to see if his longer works would be more satisfying, but this one just didn't quite zing me the way I hoped it would.
You're on a train that's traveling toward a group of five rail workers. You have time to force the trolley onto another line, where only one worker is standing, so you can either do nothing and kill five people, or make a choice and actively kill one person. It's an ethical dilemma that presents choice as the factor in guilt.
The Four Thousand, the Eight Hundred is a short book that sets the Trolley Dilemma in space. Anna is a newly-appointed director on an asteroid, tasked with collecting refugees from another colonized asteroid, as they begin floating in on derelict cocoon ships. She's ultimately faced with the challenge of saving either the four thousand refugees, or the eight hundred other refugees on a ferry that is supposed to dock on the other asteroid. Cue the conclusion.
The journey to that decision is an interesting one, which parallels a lot of the trouble the US is having with its current political arena. The incident that spurs the refugees into action involves politics, racism, and classism, so it's a lot to think about in terms of our own lives, even before the dilemma presents itself. The conclusion, though, feels banal against the conditions that started the action, and it seems to shift the emotional turmoil from the refugees to Anna, who has to make that choice. It seemed like Egan gave short shrift to the people escaping their oppression, even though the bulk of the story was about their struggle.
Egan is a decent writer. His characters weren't lively, but they were distinct, and he captured their conflicts well. This novella just doesn't seem like the best place to start with the author. It gave me reason to track down another book of his to see if his longer works would be more satisfying, but this one just didn't quite zing me the way I hoped it would.
Displaying 1 - 30 of 83 reviews