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Caminhando com Deus em meio à dor e ao sofrimento
"SE VOCÊ CRÊ EM JESUS E DESCANSA EM SEUS BRAÇOS, O SOFRIMENTO ESTARÁ PARA O SEU CARÁTER ASSIM COMO O FOGO PARA O OURO."
"Você deseja saber quem é, quais são seus pontos fortes e fracos? Deseja ser uma pessoa compassiva que sabe ajudar os que estão sofrendo? Quer confiar tanto em Deus que não se abalará com as decepções da vida? Deseja ter sabedoria para direcionar a vida? Esses quatro desejos comuns são cruciais, mas nenhum deles é alcançado sem sofrimento. Não há como saber quem realmente somos até sermos provados. Não há como demonstrar empatia e solidariedade para com as pessoas que sofrem, a não ser que tenhamos sofrido. Não há como aprender de verdade a confiar em Deus até começarmos a afundar nas águas."
Explicar por que Deus permite dor e sofrimento no mundo é uma questão que tem exasperado o ser humano há milênios. Timothy Keller, autor de obras que já venderam milhões de exemplares no mundo inteiro, para leitores religiosos ou não, analisa essa questão mostrando que há sentido e razão por trás de nossa dor e sofrimento e defendendo o argumento forte e inovador de que essa parte essencial da experiência humana só pode ser superada pela compreensão de nosso relacionamento com Deus.
"Você deseja saber quem é, quais são seus pontos fortes e fracos? Deseja ser uma pessoa compassiva que sabe ajudar os que estão sofrendo? Quer confiar tanto em Deus que não se abalará com as decepções da vida? Deseja ter sabedoria para direcionar a vida? Esses quatro desejos comuns são cruciais, mas nenhum deles é alcançado sem sofrimento. Não há como saber quem realmente somos até sermos provados. Não há como demonstrar empatia e solidariedade para com as pessoas que sofrem, a não ser que tenhamos sofrido. Não há como aprender de verdade a confiar em Deus até começarmos a afundar nas águas."
Explicar por que Deus permite dor e sofrimento no mundo é uma questão que tem exasperado o ser humano há milênios. Timothy Keller, autor de obras que já venderam milhões de exemplares no mundo inteiro, para leitores religiosos ou não, analisa essa questão mostrando que há sentido e razão por trás de nossa dor e sofrimento e defendendo o argumento forte e inovador de que essa parte essencial da experiência humana só pode ser superada pela compreensão de nosso relacionamento com Deus.
480 pages, Kindle Edition
First published January 1, 2013
2011 people are currently reading
10524 people want to read
About the author
Timothy J. Keller
397 books5,694 followersLibrarian Note: There is more than one author in the Goodreads database with this name.
Timothy Keller was the founding pastor of Redeemer Presbyterian Church in Manhattan, which he started in 1989 with his wife, Kathy, and three young sons. For over twenty years he has led a diverse congregation of young professionals that has grown to a weekly attendance of over 5,000.
He was also Chairman of Redeemer City to City, which starts new churches in New York and other global cities, and publishes books and resources for faith in an urban culture. In over ten years they have helped to launch over 250 churches in 48 cities. More recently, Dr. Keller’s books, including the New York Times bestselling The Reason for God and The Prodigal God, have sold over 1 million copies and been translated into 15 languages.
Christianity Today has said, “Fifty years from now, if evangelical Christians are widely known for their love of cities, their commitment to mercy and justice, and their love of their neighbors, Tim Keller will be remembered as a pioneer of the new urban Christians.”
Dr. Keller was born and raised in Pennsylvania, and educated at Bucknell University, Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, and Westminster Theological Seminary. He previously served as the pastor of West Hopewell Presbyterian Church in Hopewell, Virginia, Associate Professor of Practical Theology at Westminster Theological Seminary, and Director of Mercy Ministries for the Presbyterian Church in America.
Timothy Keller was the founding pastor of Redeemer Presbyterian Church in Manhattan, which he started in 1989 with his wife, Kathy, and three young sons. For over twenty years he has led a diverse congregation of young professionals that has grown to a weekly attendance of over 5,000.
He was also Chairman of Redeemer City to City, which starts new churches in New York and other global cities, and publishes books and resources for faith in an urban culture. In over ten years they have helped to launch over 250 churches in 48 cities. More recently, Dr. Keller’s books, including the New York Times bestselling The Reason for God and The Prodigal God, have sold over 1 million copies and been translated into 15 languages.
Christianity Today has said, “Fifty years from now, if evangelical Christians are widely known for their love of cities, their commitment to mercy and justice, and their love of their neighbors, Tim Keller will be remembered as a pioneer of the new urban Christians.”
Dr. Keller was born and raised in Pennsylvania, and educated at Bucknell University, Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, and Westminster Theological Seminary. He previously served as the pastor of West Hopewell Presbyterian Church in Hopewell, Virginia, Associate Professor of Practical Theology at Westminster Theological Seminary, and Director of Mercy Ministries for the Presbyterian Church in America.
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 727 reviews
December 30, 2013
What is most impressive about this book is not that it is theologically profound, or philosophically precise, or psychologically wise, or pastorally helpful, but that it manages to be all of those things at once in a single book.
February 17, 2017
There were some excellent parts of this book and maybe one day I will return here and write about them. But I was SO very disappointed that both stories of child loss ended with the birth of a new child. Having lost two children ourselves (age 14 months and 10 days old), and not getting that 'happy ending' of another child to bring healing and joy back into our home, and and an answer to our prayers, reading this just felt like an extra huge kick to the gut. While it is great that these couples had another child, it does not represent reality for many sufferers. God does not always give more children to parents who have lost them. Period. Sometimes He even allows the unthinkable to happen again. There are many, many people who do not have a happy ending to their story. (on this side of heaven) How do THOSE people continue to trust God through the pain?
May 5, 2024
Still the best book on suffering I’ve ever read.
August 14, 2016
The book is divided into three sections. Keller is upfront that not all sections will address what the reader most needs at a particular time. I am probably in the minority that preferred the philosophical/theological section over the practical advice portion.
At the conclusion of several chapters, Keller included a testimony of someone whose story of suffering illustrated a point in the chapter. I found myself frustrated by what seems to be a recurrent theme in Christian books. (I could list titles, but won't.) The person(s) will say, for example, how they struggled with infertility or in some cases lost a child, but after several years of prayer and weeping, God intervened and now they are parents of a precious little one. I am thrilled that these folks got their wish, but to my thinking the more persuasive example would be to read about a couple with empty arms, someone whose prayer wasn't answered. That's the type of pain which too often goes unaddressed in the church.
At the conclusion of several chapters, Keller included a testimony of someone whose story of suffering illustrated a point in the chapter. I found myself frustrated by what seems to be a recurrent theme in Christian books. (I could list titles, but won't.) The person(s) will say, for example, how they struggled with infertility or in some cases lost a child, but after several years of prayer and weeping, God intervened and now they are parents of a precious little one. I am thrilled that these folks got their wish, but to my thinking the more persuasive example would be to read about a couple with empty arms, someone whose prayer wasn't answered. That's the type of pain which too often goes unaddressed in the church.
May 7, 2025
This is my second read of Keller’s book. Whether you are thinking philosophically or theologically about suffering, or whether you are currently suffering, the book is full of insights and comfort.
October 24, 2024
I finished this book two days ago with tears in my eyes. I wish I'd read it a long time ago.
Divided into three parts (Understanding the Furnace, Facing the Furnace, Walking Through the Furnace), Keller's book begins with a philosophical and historical treatment of suffering as other world religions and philosophies have endeavored to explain it. Not surprisingly, they all fall short and leave much to be desired. But the biblical understanding of and encouragement through suffering holds up! What I loved about this book is that Tim Keller doesn't shy away from the big questions: Why do we suffer? What's the purpose? If God is good, why does He let us suffer? How do we get through it? In true Keller fashion, he answers the questions and takes you to Scripture.
While some readers may want to skip the first section because of the exploration of the world's handling of suffering through history (and indeed, Keller encourages readers to feel free to do so), I felt that section laid necessary groundwork for the rest of the book. Readers will find the last section to be especially helpful if they are currently walking through a trial or season of grief. The chapter on the story of Job is worth the price of the entire book, in my opinion. I underlined so much in this book, but I'll share a few quotes below to give you a flavor of it.
“Jesus was patient under even greater suffering for us, so we can be patient under lesser suffering for him. And heaven will make amends for everything.” (p. 13)
“It is the most liberating idea possible and it ultimately enables you to face all suffering, knowing that because of the cross, God is absolutely for you and that because of the resurrection, everything will be all right in the end.” (p. 49)
“Suffering dispels the illusion that we have the strength and competence to rule our own lives and save ourselves.” (p. 49)
“If you seek God as the nonnegotiable good of your life, you will get happiness thrown in. If, however, you aim mainly at personal happiness, you will get neither.” (p. 187)
“A Christian man who develops lymphoma should not think he is being punished for a sin, though he must not, on the other hand, miss this opportunity to put his roots down into God and discover a dimension of spiritual growth and wisdom he would never otherwise have had access to.” (p. 208)
“When you suffer without relief, when you feel absolutely alone you can know that, because [Jesus] bore your sin, he will be with you. You can know you are walking the same path Jesus walked, so you are not alone—and that path is only taking you to him.” (p.293)
“You will never really understand your heart when things are going well. It is only when things go badly that you can see it truly. And that's because it is only when suffering comes that you realize who is the true God and what are the false gods of your lives. Only the true God can go with you through that furnace and out to the other side. The other gods will abandon you in the furnace.” (p. 308)
“On the cross, Jesus got what we deserve, including this cosmic, profound pain and restlessness. He got what we deserve, 2 Corinthians 5:21 says, so we can get what he deserves.” (p.311)
Divided into three parts (Understanding the Furnace, Facing the Furnace, Walking Through the Furnace), Keller's book begins with a philosophical and historical treatment of suffering as other world religions and philosophies have endeavored to explain it. Not surprisingly, they all fall short and leave much to be desired. But the biblical understanding of and encouragement through suffering holds up! What I loved about this book is that Tim Keller doesn't shy away from the big questions: Why do we suffer? What's the purpose? If God is good, why does He let us suffer? How do we get through it? In true Keller fashion, he answers the questions and takes you to Scripture.
While some readers may want to skip the first section because of the exploration of the world's handling of suffering through history (and indeed, Keller encourages readers to feel free to do so), I felt that section laid necessary groundwork for the rest of the book. Readers will find the last section to be especially helpful if they are currently walking through a trial or season of grief. The chapter on the story of Job is worth the price of the entire book, in my opinion. I underlined so much in this book, but I'll share a few quotes below to give you a flavor of it.
“Jesus was patient under even greater suffering for us, so we can be patient under lesser suffering for him. And heaven will make amends for everything.” (p. 13)
“It is the most liberating idea possible and it ultimately enables you to face all suffering, knowing that because of the cross, God is absolutely for you and that because of the resurrection, everything will be all right in the end.” (p. 49)
“Suffering dispels the illusion that we have the strength and competence to rule our own lives and save ourselves.” (p. 49)
“If you seek God as the nonnegotiable good of your life, you will get happiness thrown in. If, however, you aim mainly at personal happiness, you will get neither.” (p. 187)
“A Christian man who develops lymphoma should not think he is being punished for a sin, though he must not, on the other hand, miss this opportunity to put his roots down into God and discover a dimension of spiritual growth and wisdom he would never otherwise have had access to.” (p. 208)
“When you suffer without relief, when you feel absolutely alone you can know that, because [Jesus] bore your sin, he will be with you. You can know you are walking the same path Jesus walked, so you are not alone—and that path is only taking you to him.” (p.293)
“You will never really understand your heart when things are going well. It is only when things go badly that you can see it truly. And that's because it is only when suffering comes that you realize who is the true God and what are the false gods of your lives. Only the true God can go with you through that furnace and out to the other side. The other gods will abandon you in the furnace.” (p. 308)
“On the cross, Jesus got what we deserve, including this cosmic, profound pain and restlessness. He got what we deserve, 2 Corinthians 5:21 says, so we can get what he deserves.” (p.311)
January 1, 2015
Today is my birthday and this has been a pretty bad year for me. Through the course of this very bad year I have read many books on suffering some have been a very raw sharing of emotion. That is fine and sometimes helpful but this book by Tim Keller is ever so much more than that. I can't imagine a better book on the subject. It has echoed so many lessons I have been learning and gave me courage to truly trust God completely in the midst of pain. It walks the Christian through all the stages of grief and suffering and leaves us finally at my favorite destination-the ordering of our affections towards God.
This has been a very bad year. I would not want to live it again and I am glad that on my last birthday I did not know what was ahead;I would not have had the courage to walk the path. But now I can truly say that while I do not embrace suffering I do count it all joy and that the Gospel has held firm. God is bigger than I knew and all is well. My troubles are still present. I still cry more than I thought possible but I am not suffering as those who are without hope. I have a huge hope.
This is a 5 star book for the Christian facing unexpected suffering.
This has been a very bad year. I would not want to live it again and I am glad that on my last birthday I did not know what was ahead;I would not have had the courage to walk the path. But now I can truly say that while I do not embrace suffering I do count it all joy and that the Gospel has held firm. God is bigger than I knew and all is well. My troubles are still present. I still cry more than I thought possible but I am not suffering as those who are without hope. I have a huge hope.
This is a 5 star book for the Christian facing unexpected suffering.
February 2, 2023
The other gods were strong; but Thou wast weak;
They rode, but Thou didst stumble to a throne;
But to our wounds only God’s wounds can speak,
And not a god has wounds, but Thou alone.
This book is simply beautiful. In my mind this is ‘the’ book to read on suffering. Suffering is not an easy topic to read on. In fact, our western culture does just about anything to turn it’s gaze away from examining the reality of suffering. For this reason, finding helpful wisdom on and in suffering for us is very difficult.
Timothy Keller has written yet another best book on a given subject (I also consider his ‘Making Sense of God’ the best book for seekers who want to learn more about Christianity and it’s claims - especially western readers).
In this book, Keller warm-heartedly walks with the reader through some of the most difficult aspects of suffering. He does this in 3 parts - which may be read in any order - whichever the reader is most willing to hear: Part I is on the philosophical aspects of suffering. Part II is on the more theological aspects of suffering. And Part III centers on the practical aspects. Keller recommends the reader start wherever they are most comfortable. Most readers in the midst of suffering will not want to read the former two parts, but will be interested in the third. Later however, they may want to circle back and look in to the fist 2 parts.
The three pronged approach to suffering is very comprehensive. I know of no other book that addresses all three. Keller is absolutely profound throughout this read. It is deep, wise, and paradigm shifting.
If you are suffering, read this. If you are walking with others through suffering, read this.
If you are not yet suffering, you will. This book will be a healing balm for your soul. It will help you to suffer, weep, and lament well.
August 21, 2020
This is my second time reading this book and it's the best big-picture take on suffering that I've read.
I'd highly recommend it. Read it. Pass it along.
I'd highly recommend it. Read it. Pass it along.
January 13, 2024
This was probably the most helpful book for me after the death of my mom. I read several books (or portions of them), and this offered what I needed. I’ll go back and refer to it a lot, I’m sure.
January 21, 2021
4.5 stars
An excellent and comprehensive book on what suffering means. If COVID-19 has revealed one thing, it is that we are severely deficient in a robust theology/philosophy of suffering. Our modern Western culture has taught us that hardships are interruptions to our happiness, rather than an inevitable and valuable part of each of our stories leading to a greater good; our culture has given us no tools or instruction on handling suffering and so, in the midst of it, we turn to other things to make sense of it all— conspiracy, denial, despondency.
In Walking with God Through Pain and Suffering, Tim Keller takes a holistic approach. He goes through an anthropological survey of suffering through various cultures, a historical approach of the stark contrast of Christian theology and the church to the prominent views on suffering, a theological argument to answer the ‘whys’, and a pastoral section to comfort people hurting right now. A must-read for Christians who don't realize how other philosophies have crept into the 'Christianese' way that we speak about hard times. This book is equally suitable for people who are not Christians, as Keller gives fair views of many different cultures' and religions' responses to suffering, as well as a thorough explanation of the orthodox Christian theology on suffering.
My only criticism (which I would never say to Keller himself because I stan) is that I didn't walk away from the latter part of this book wholly comforted. Thoughtful, a bigger view of God's power and purpose; yes. But I would have liked more exploration on the intimate comfort that He offers in a more devotional way. I'd therefore recommend this book in conjunction with either Dark Clouds, Deep Mercy by Vroegop or Gentle and Lowly by Ortlund to supplement this. All in all, a great read!
An excellent and comprehensive book on what suffering means. If COVID-19 has revealed one thing, it is that we are severely deficient in a robust theology/philosophy of suffering. Our modern Western culture has taught us that hardships are interruptions to our happiness, rather than an inevitable and valuable part of each of our stories leading to a greater good; our culture has given us no tools or instruction on handling suffering and so, in the midst of it, we turn to other things to make sense of it all— conspiracy, denial, despondency.
In Walking with God Through Pain and Suffering, Tim Keller takes a holistic approach. He goes through an anthropological survey of suffering through various cultures, a historical approach of the stark contrast of Christian theology and the church to the prominent views on suffering, a theological argument to answer the ‘whys’, and a pastoral section to comfort people hurting right now. A must-read for Christians who don't realize how other philosophies have crept into the 'Christianese' way that we speak about hard times. This book is equally suitable for people who are not Christians, as Keller gives fair views of many different cultures' and religions' responses to suffering, as well as a thorough explanation of the orthodox Christian theology on suffering.
My only criticism (which I would never say to Keller himself because I stan) is that I didn't walk away from the latter part of this book wholly comforted. Thoughtful, a bigger view of God's power and purpose; yes. But I would have liked more exploration on the intimate comfort that He offers in a more devotional way. I'd therefore recommend this book in conjunction with either Dark Clouds, Deep Mercy by Vroegop or Gentle and Lowly by Ortlund to supplement this. All in all, a great read!
December 7, 2019
Helped Jim Tandy teach a college class at RPC in Waco using this book (2016–17).
Lecture/Q&A.
Introduction
1: cf. the 1755 Lisbon earthquake
2: Macbeth quote
3: take life seriously, but don't despair bc of suffering—we need spiritual help
4–5: people reject God bc of suffering, but they also find Him thru it; CSL: pain is God shouting
5–6: suffering in OT/NT
6: Kellers' personal suffering (cf. the beginning of Prayer); joy thru suffering
6–7: S. Weil says suffering makes God seem absent—Ps. 34 says that even when God seems absent, He isn't
7: it's difficult but necessary to be philosophical about this topic
7–9: Keller doesn't want to be one-dimensional, so the book has 3 parts: "problem of evil" (more abstract), Bible/personal, practical
10: Jesus suffered for us & suffers with us
Part 1: Understanding the Furnace
Ch. 1: The Cultures of Suffering
13: suffering of Keller's father
14: Western culture is terrible at dealing w/ suffering; Berger: other cultures found meaning in suffering (see n15) [some find this observation to be insensitive toward a modern audience, but Keller is not advocating a response to suffering that says "just get over it"; it's simply a historical fact that other cultures have better understood suffering to be an expected part of life; see p. 114 for nuance]; ressentiment & suffering (Nietzsche)
15–16: Tom Shippey: older cultures were less afraid of suffering than we are
17–20: 4 ways that society has responded to suffering: moralistic (you bring suffering on yourself; karma), self-transcendent (reduce desire, the source of your disappointment; Buddhism; Stoicism), fatalistic (can't fight impersonal fate; Islam; Norse cultures; n25: Berger puts Calvinism here), & dualistic (good & evil are locked in eternal struggle; Persian Zoarastrianism); differences & similarities; chart on p. 20
20–21: Western culture is more secular/naturalistic (Dawkins's "pitiless indifference"; Housman's poetry)
23–27: suffering as an interruption; cure seems to be to treat the symptoms & avoid/lessen suffering as much as possible
25–26: Lewis's Abolition of Man; Taylor's A Secular Age ("the anthropocentric turn")
28: revised chart (with secularism added)
28–31: superiority of Xnity
29: Solzhenitsyn's quote about the line dividing good & evil
31-34: forgiveness guards against bitterness; fairy tales include tragedies that make protagonists stronger
Ch. 2: The Victory of Christianity
35–36: philosophy teaches us to be our own physicians & face death (Cicero)
37: science can tell us what is, but not what ought to be; we'll look at ancient, medieval, & modern views
37–39: Greek Stoics & the Logos (impersonal divine rational structure); the mind perceives the order of the universe; face death by accepting fate, privilege reason over emotion, & think of death as transformation (joining the universe)
39–41: Cicero & Seneca were Romans who were influenced by the Stoics; Hinduism & Buddhism—differences are an illusion (see n71 for Buddhism as pantheism); overcome suffering by detaching your heart; for Stoics & Buddhists, hope is a killer
41–47 (early church fathers): Xn apologists argued that Xnity provided better answers for suffering, & that the lives of Xns proved it; Ignatius, Polycarp, Cyprian, Ambrose, Augustine: Xs suffer & die better than pagans; Xnity allowed room for sorrow, & provided a basis for hope; John co-opts the Logos & calls it a person; don't necessarily love things less, but love God more; Boethius & Wheel of Fortune/chance (see n88); bodily resurrection; Gregory the Great on Job
48–53 (Luther): medieval (Catholic) view of meriting Heaven by suffering well (Paltz); suffering empties us of pride & makes us rely on God; "theology of glory" vs. "theology of the cross"; Anfectungen
53–56 (modernity): Charles Taylor & the "Immanent Frame" (secularity, porous/buffered, new sense of self, religious options, controlling our destinies); Deism (God exists to fulfill me); 1755 Lisbon earthquake & Voltaire; "problem of evil" was new (now we question God's goodness & existence); we prize our own reason so much that we assume we can understand suffering (but people used to assume that they just couldn't understand God's ways)
57–60: Delbanco & the death of Satan; Christian Smith & "moralistic, therapeutic deism"; Xn beliefs that help with suffering: personal & omnipotent God, Jesus' suffering, assurance of salvation through Jesus, & bodily resurrection; as we grow in importance in our own eyes, suffering becomes more intolerable
61–63: doctor loses a son, & the community gathered around
Ch. 3: The Challenge of the Secular
64–66: religious nature of Newtown memorial services (2012); religion offers more community; "humanism suffers...from the valorization of the individual" (Freedman)
68–69: social justice movements have tended to have religious bases (history); secularism has no objective morality (philosophy)
70: living for happiness or living for meaning
72–73: families that are grateful (after the fact) for children with disabilities
73–74: the secular account of suffering reduces the cause to victimization; secular attempt to eliminate suffering is naively optimistic
75–77: Delbanco's book about cultural narratives that provide hope & cohesion (the US narrative has shifted from God, to country, to self); de Tocqueville & American individualism; suicide becomes more of an option when someone (whose meaning derives from personal happiness) is denied that happiness [some find this to be offensive, but 1) Keller is not saying that everyone who commits suicide is selfish, & 2) Keller is not shying away from the obvious fact that sin can lead to suicide]
77: suffering is at the heart of Xnity
80: suffering is how we understand God better & develop virtues
Ch. 4: The Problem of Evil
85: historically, this "problem" goes back through Hume to Epicurus (God's willingness/goodness & ability/power)
86: Keller didn't start with this chapter bc it would've given the impression that only Xnity has a problem bc of evil (but secularism does too, & the problem is far greater)
87: evil is a problem for people who think highly of their rational capabilities; cultural biases help to form our opinions
88–89: logical argument (certainty) vs. evidential argument (probability); Plantinga showed that since God could have a morally justified reason to allow evil, it is logically false to say that God's goodness & power are not incompatible with evil
89–90: distinction between theodicy & defense (see more on p. 95); Leibniz coined theodicy; "soul-making" theodicy (Irenaeus in 2c: trials make us stronger [cf. Areopagitica]); problems with this theodicy is that suffering isn't evenly distributed (so people don't have the same opportunities for maturity), & children & animals suffer greatly
90–93: free will theodicy (robots can't obey out of love); freedom to choose good means freedom to choose evil; Augustine/Aquinas: evil is a privation of good; evil from free will is worth it; problems: 1) free will addresses moral evil but not natural evil [see n166 for a discussion on a literal Adam & Eve], 2) only the extreme libertarian free will position claims that God can't lead us to do the right thing bc it violate our free will (but God cannot do certain things & yet remains free & loving, & what about glorified humans [who love God, yet cannot sin] in eternity?; plus, sin comes from our slavery, not our freedom), 3) the Bible speaks of God's sovereignty in human actions (e.g. Acts 2:23; compatibilism), 4) violating someone else free will may save his/her life (so it's morally good)
94: CSL & the natural law theodicy, the complicated plenitude theory (multiverses), & the simplistic punishment theodicy (fall > suffering)
95: no Xn denomination has ever endorsed a particular theodicy; more on theodicy (explaining the purpose of evil—burden of proof is on the Xn) vs. defense (showing that argument against God from evil is flawed—burden of proof is on the skeptic)
96–99: noseeums argument: there may be reasons (for God to allow suffering) that we can't see/understand (we have no right to assume that if we can't see a good reason for the suffering, there must not be one); in fact, many of us allow/inflict pain for a greater purpose (medical procedures, child discipline)
100: chaos theory, butterfly's fluttering, & a time-traveler stepping on a mouse
101–03 (visceral arguments): Elie Wiesel's Night is only one perspective (others saw the same things, & their faith wasn't destroyed)
103–07 (boomerang effect): Pascal & heart's reasons; strong, personal moral outrage doesn't constitute obligation; moral instincts must be grounded on something objective, or else they are not binding; Lewis realized that we cannot morally condemn anything unless we appeal to something universally moral; missionary kid who saw suffering drifted from God, but then argued with a relativist & recognized that one couldn't condemn Hitler (or anything else unjust) without a moral standard (both MLK & Nietzsche understood this)
Part 2: Facing the Furnace
Ch. 5: The Challenge to Faith
113: "reasons of the heart" (intuitions) change affections/attitudes more than propositions do; 3 powerful themes of Xn teaching...
113–15: 1. creation/fall: evil is not supposed to be here, & it's natural for us to resist death (even though it's a part of life); suffering/death do come from sin (so we can never claim that we deserve better), but particular sufferings are not always directly related to particular sins; practical Deism (Christian Smith) makes us think that God's job is to make us comfortable, & a rejection of this spiritual entitlement (presumption, self-pity) brings the relief of humility; bc of the fall, the real question is why does God allow so much happiness to rebels?
116–18: 2. final judgment & renewal of world: if there's no Judgment Day, we lose hope for justice (& maybe live immorally), or take vengeance ourselves; if there is a Judgment Day, we hope for final & temporal justice, & we don't have to take matters into our own hands (we can forgive)—Judgment Day keeps us from being too passive & too aggressive; felix culpa stuff (Plantinga on Edwards & Kuyper; see n203)—God's plan for suffering leads to a greater good; CSL & JRRT
118–22: 3. incarnation/atonement: Berger notes that while we shouldn't question God (His ways are higher), we're still not satisfied with a "don't question God" answer—& the Bible gives us another help: God suffers (worse than we have—Jesus agonizingly lost an infinite love relationship); the Muslim charge that the Xn God became weak is accurate; so we don't always know the reason why we suffer (just as children don't always understand their parents' decisions), but we know what one of the reasons isn't—that God doesn't care; Voskamp
123: Luther [Augustine?] & incurvatus in se (leads to everything from genocide to marital tension); Jesus came to bear justice
125–29: mother falsely accused of child abuse (children taken away for 9 months, but judge finally dismissed the case); eventually, this mother forgave (& even hugged) the accusing doctor
Ch. 6: The Sovereignty of God
130: "Suffering is both just and unjust" & "God is both a sovereign & a suffering God"
131–32 (just): see n215 for Keller's view that Adam & Eve were real, historical people; it's clear that justice is often retributive (see Proverbs)
132–35 (unjust): there isn't always a clear one-to-one correspondence between particular suffering & someone's actions (see 114–15); sometimes suffering is obviously just (Proverbs—the world is ordered), & sometimes it's not so obvious (Job, Ecclesiastes—God's ways are hidden, & we are often confused); Gerhard von Rad on the uniqueness of the Bible—an unrivaled God creates as an artist, not a warrior; it's natural to want to make sense of things (karma), but we don't control the world; "The Bible's assessment [of humans] is less flattering to non-sufferers and kinder to those who are hurting"
136–38 (suffering as God's enemy): Hart on the tsunami (see n222: Keller thinks Hart over-emphasizes God's distance; God is sovereign over suffering); Jesus was angry about Lazarus's death (see Warfield/Calvin), although He obv. knew that death is just (Bible's view of suffering is nuanced)
138–39: forgetting that suffering is just (since we deserve death) can lead to "I hate thee," & forgetting the suffering is unjust (since we are not always directly to blame) can lead to "I hate me" [in CE I used a parenting example: Xn parents suffering bc of rebellious children can be devastated in 2 ways—Xn parents who have not trained their children well can be devastated if they forget that sometimes suffering is just (they could have trained their children better), & Xn parents who have trained their children well can be devastated if they forget that sometimes suffering is unjust (there really is nothing else they could have done)]
140–44: compatibilism & related verses (Isaiah 10:5–7; Eph. 1:11; Prov. 16:33; Ps. 60:3; Acts 4:27–28); "we always do what we most want to do" [Edwards]; more verses (Prov. 16:9; Gen. 50:20; Rom. 8:28; Acts 2:23; Luke 22:22; the hardening of Pharaoh's heart in Ex. 7–14); God has no "plan B"; Don Carson says that God works good & evil asymmetrically [cf. double predestination]
Ch. 7: The Suffering of God
148: the OT God is tender toward His people
149: God does not need anything, but "impassibility" goes too far
152: McCartney: "Christ learned humanhood from his suffering . . . ; we learn Christhood from our suffering"
153: God's suffering is "voluntary—and therefore . . . fully motivated by love"; we don't obey bc we understand (that would be agreement, not obedience)
153–54: we can trust God bc He suffered for us
155: Judgment Day doesn't just punish evil—it undoes it (see p. 159); scroll in Rev. 5 is God's sovereign plan
156–57: the cross was the worst that evil could do, & it backfired; evil is privation (Boethius) & external force (Manes)—see n254 & Shippey/JRRT reference; Calvin quote on death's being turned on itself; judo
158: Xnity doesn't explain suffering, but it does answer it (X's suffering); Dostoevsky (see n259)
Ch. 8: The Reason for Suffering
163: epigraph (Herbert's "Sin")
164–65: opera arias often turn "sorrow into something beautiful"
165: "post-traumatic growth"; suffering can make people more resilient (suffering produces endurance, character, & hope [Rom. 5:3–4]), strengthen relationships, & change priorities/philosophies
165–66: people who focus on personal achievement/happiness tend not to respond well to suffering; various life stories (some are naive) lead people to respond differently to suffering; "The Bible is filled with cries of lament and shouts of 'Why?' that God does not denounce"
167: suffering & glory are linked in many biblical passages; Xns who are not taught well are offended at the suggestion that suffering can glorify God
167–68: CSL (Reflections on the Psalms) shows that God is not greedy for demanding praise—praise is the proper response for something/someone glorious/beautiful, & we benefit from giving the praise
168–69: glory/kabod/weight/matter/importance/doxa
169: LOTR & imbuing significance to a small object (something other than God)—common in mythology (see JRRT's Letter 121)
170–74: Elizabeth Elliot & letting God be God (not our own creation)—we often want God to act in ways that we can understand (we want God as an accomplice, & reject the freedom that comes from relinquishing control); we cannot trust God only when we understand Him
175: we glorify God to others when we trust God through our suffering
176–77: story of the 2006 shooting in an Amish community [sounds similar to Charleston 2015]; Christians reflect on Christ's suffering for His enemies, & "self-renunciation" (giving up revenge)
178–80: Joni Eareckson Tada & Denise Walters; Taylor's "immanent frame"; we are always "on camera," in a sense; "No suffering is for nothing"
180–81: Jesus was cast out for us
181–85: story of racial tensions, betrayal, illness, death; "It seems that some fruit comes only from suffering"
Ch. 9: Learning to Walk
186: Proust: we usually discover wisdom rather than receive it; suffering is connected to God's glory, but also our glory (2 Cor. 4:17)
187–88: although suffering can lead to our growth, we should never seek it out (masochism)
188–89: suffering can show us legitimate weaknesses in ourselves (e.g., cowardice, selfishness, etc.); depressed people who recover gain wisdom (perhaps more than those who have never suffered with depression, bc depression reveals limitations; those who are never depressed may have an unrealistic view of their abilities)
190–92: suffering "transforms our attitude toward ourselves" (removes blinders, reveals our vulnerability & weaknesses), "change[s] our relationship to the good things in our lives" (reshapes priorities), "strengthen[s] our relationship to God" (CSL quote about God's shouting in our pain), & a "prerequisite if we are going to be of much use to other people" (makes us more compassionate; gives us wisdom; 2 Cor. 1:3–7)
193–96: metaphor of suffering as a gymnasium; word means "naked," bc clothes hide flaws, & if you want to improve, you need to see/know where to improve; too much exercise & too little are both unhelpful [cf. Aristotle's doctrine of the mean in NE, which Luther hated]; suffering has both a limit & a purpose
196–98: we must prepare for suffering [cf. Piper's "ballast" in Spectacular Sins]; hard to learn "on the job"; theological reflection helps us avoid naive views—such as thinking that "good" people don't deserve suffering (shock from this naivety makes suffering worse; there was a purpose to X's suffering)—& helps us know that we shouldn't expect to understand everything (bc we're finite); if God were completely just, we would be dead now
198–202: importance of both head & heart; gap between head knowledge & heart ability to persevere can be large; we need pastoral care, not just facts (which can make us impatient with those who struggle with suffering, despite knowing facts); facts can't just be stored in a warehouse—we have to know how to use them (Carson), & suffering forces the facts to become real; "it is cruel to show a person currently in pain with theological arguments about how God is not responsible for evil and why his wisdom is beyond searching out"
Ch. 10: The Varieties of Suffering
205: epigraph from The Princess Bride; fire can consume or refine
206: there's no one answer for suffering bc sufferings & sufferers are different
207–13: 4 kinds of suffering: our own fault (Jonah, David), doing what's right (Paul, Jeremiah), "universal" (Mary/Martha), "senseless" (Job); Augustine & re-ordering loves
208: we're not punished for our sins (bc of X)?
210: it's okay to pursue justice without vengeance
213: Weil's "The Love of God and Affliction"
213–16: kinds of affliction (based on temperament): isolation, implosion, condemnation, anger, temptation
216: clichés can "grate rather than comfort" (Carson)
217: people want to know that you care
217–18: God gives daily grace
217/219: importance of giving truth in the right order; Newton
For Part 3, see here.
Lecture/Q&A.
Introduction
1: cf. the 1755 Lisbon earthquake
2: Macbeth quote
3: take life seriously, but don't despair bc of suffering—we need spiritual help
4–5: people reject God bc of suffering, but they also find Him thru it; CSL: pain is God shouting
5–6: suffering in OT/NT
6: Kellers' personal suffering (cf. the beginning of Prayer); joy thru suffering
6–7: S. Weil says suffering makes God seem absent—Ps. 34 says that even when God seems absent, He isn't
7: it's difficult but necessary to be philosophical about this topic
7–9: Keller doesn't want to be one-dimensional, so the book has 3 parts: "problem of evil" (more abstract), Bible/personal, practical
10: Jesus suffered for us & suffers with us
Part 1: Understanding the Furnace
Ch. 1: The Cultures of Suffering
13: suffering of Keller's father
14: Western culture is terrible at dealing w/ suffering; Berger: other cultures found meaning in suffering (see n15) [some find this observation to be insensitive toward a modern audience, but Keller is not advocating a response to suffering that says "just get over it"; it's simply a historical fact that other cultures have better understood suffering to be an expected part of life; see p. 114 for nuance]; ressentiment & suffering (Nietzsche)
15–16: Tom Shippey: older cultures were less afraid of suffering than we are
17–20: 4 ways that society has responded to suffering: moralistic (you bring suffering on yourself; karma), self-transcendent (reduce desire, the source of your disappointment; Buddhism; Stoicism), fatalistic (can't fight impersonal fate; Islam; Norse cultures; n25: Berger puts Calvinism here), & dualistic (good & evil are locked in eternal struggle; Persian Zoarastrianism); differences & similarities; chart on p. 20
20–21: Western culture is more secular/naturalistic (Dawkins's "pitiless indifference"; Housman's poetry)
23–27: suffering as an interruption; cure seems to be to treat the symptoms & avoid/lessen suffering as much as possible
25–26: Lewis's Abolition of Man; Taylor's A Secular Age ("the anthropocentric turn")
28: revised chart (with secularism added)
28–31: superiority of Xnity
29: Solzhenitsyn's quote about the line dividing good & evil
31-34: forgiveness guards against bitterness; fairy tales include tragedies that make protagonists stronger
Ch. 2: The Victory of Christianity
35–36: philosophy teaches us to be our own physicians & face death (Cicero)
37: science can tell us what is, but not what ought to be; we'll look at ancient, medieval, & modern views
37–39: Greek Stoics & the Logos (impersonal divine rational structure); the mind perceives the order of the universe; face death by accepting fate, privilege reason over emotion, & think of death as transformation (joining the universe)
39–41: Cicero & Seneca were Romans who were influenced by the Stoics; Hinduism & Buddhism—differences are an illusion (see n71 for Buddhism as pantheism); overcome suffering by detaching your heart; for Stoics & Buddhists, hope is a killer
41–47 (early church fathers): Xn apologists argued that Xnity provided better answers for suffering, & that the lives of Xns proved it; Ignatius, Polycarp, Cyprian, Ambrose, Augustine: Xs suffer & die better than pagans; Xnity allowed room for sorrow, & provided a basis for hope; John co-opts the Logos & calls it a person; don't necessarily love things less, but love God more; Boethius & Wheel of Fortune/chance (see n88); bodily resurrection; Gregory the Great on Job
48–53 (Luther): medieval (Catholic) view of meriting Heaven by suffering well (Paltz); suffering empties us of pride & makes us rely on God; "theology of glory" vs. "theology of the cross"; Anfectungen
53–56 (modernity): Charles Taylor & the "Immanent Frame" (secularity, porous/buffered, new sense of self, religious options, controlling our destinies); Deism (God exists to fulfill me); 1755 Lisbon earthquake & Voltaire; "problem of evil" was new (now we question God's goodness & existence); we prize our own reason so much that we assume we can understand suffering (but people used to assume that they just couldn't understand God's ways)
57–60: Delbanco & the death of Satan; Christian Smith & "moralistic, therapeutic deism"; Xn beliefs that help with suffering: personal & omnipotent God, Jesus' suffering, assurance of salvation through Jesus, & bodily resurrection; as we grow in importance in our own eyes, suffering becomes more intolerable
61–63: doctor loses a son, & the community gathered around
Ch. 3: The Challenge of the Secular
64–66: religious nature of Newtown memorial services (2012); religion offers more community; "humanism suffers...from the valorization of the individual" (Freedman)
68–69: social justice movements have tended to have religious bases (history); secularism has no objective morality (philosophy)
70: living for happiness or living for meaning
72–73: families that are grateful (after the fact) for children with disabilities
73–74: the secular account of suffering reduces the cause to victimization; secular attempt to eliminate suffering is naively optimistic
75–77: Delbanco's book about cultural narratives that provide hope & cohesion (the US narrative has shifted from God, to country, to self); de Tocqueville & American individualism; suicide becomes more of an option when someone (whose meaning derives from personal happiness) is denied that happiness [some find this to be offensive, but 1) Keller is not saying that everyone who commits suicide is selfish, & 2) Keller is not shying away from the obvious fact that sin can lead to suicide]
77: suffering is at the heart of Xnity
80: suffering is how we understand God better & develop virtues
Ch. 4: The Problem of Evil
85: historically, this "problem" goes back through Hume to Epicurus (God's willingness/goodness & ability/power)
86: Keller didn't start with this chapter bc it would've given the impression that only Xnity has a problem bc of evil (but secularism does too, & the problem is far greater)
87: evil is a problem for people who think highly of their rational capabilities; cultural biases help to form our opinions
88–89: logical argument (certainty) vs. evidential argument (probability); Plantinga showed that since God could have a morally justified reason to allow evil, it is logically false to say that God's goodness & power are not incompatible with evil
89–90: distinction between theodicy & defense (see more on p. 95); Leibniz coined theodicy; "soul-making" theodicy (Irenaeus in 2c: trials make us stronger [cf. Areopagitica]); problems with this theodicy is that suffering isn't evenly distributed (so people don't have the same opportunities for maturity), & children & animals suffer greatly
90–93: free will theodicy (robots can't obey out of love); freedom to choose good means freedom to choose evil; Augustine/Aquinas: evil is a privation of good; evil from free will is worth it; problems: 1) free will addresses moral evil but not natural evil [see n166 for a discussion on a literal Adam & Eve], 2) only the extreme libertarian free will position claims that God can't lead us to do the right thing bc it violate our free will (but God cannot do certain things & yet remains free & loving, & what about glorified humans [who love God, yet cannot sin] in eternity?; plus, sin comes from our slavery, not our freedom), 3) the Bible speaks of God's sovereignty in human actions (e.g. Acts 2:23; compatibilism), 4) violating someone else free will may save his/her life (so it's morally good)
94: CSL & the natural law theodicy, the complicated plenitude theory (multiverses), & the simplistic punishment theodicy (fall > suffering)
95: no Xn denomination has ever endorsed a particular theodicy; more on theodicy (explaining the purpose of evil—burden of proof is on the Xn) vs. defense (showing that argument against God from evil is flawed—burden of proof is on the skeptic)
96–99: noseeums argument: there may be reasons (for God to allow suffering) that we can't see/understand (we have no right to assume that if we can't see a good reason for the suffering, there must not be one); in fact, many of us allow/inflict pain for a greater purpose (medical procedures, child discipline)
100: chaos theory, butterfly's fluttering, & a time-traveler stepping on a mouse
101–03 (visceral arguments): Elie Wiesel's Night is only one perspective (others saw the same things, & their faith wasn't destroyed)
103–07 (boomerang effect): Pascal & heart's reasons; strong, personal moral outrage doesn't constitute obligation; moral instincts must be grounded on something objective, or else they are not binding; Lewis realized that we cannot morally condemn anything unless we appeal to something universally moral; missionary kid who saw suffering drifted from God, but then argued with a relativist & recognized that one couldn't condemn Hitler (or anything else unjust) without a moral standard (both MLK & Nietzsche understood this)
Part 2: Facing the Furnace
Ch. 5: The Challenge to Faith
113: "reasons of the heart" (intuitions) change affections/attitudes more than propositions do; 3 powerful themes of Xn teaching...
113–15: 1. creation/fall: evil is not supposed to be here, & it's natural for us to resist death (even though it's a part of life); suffering/death do come from sin (so we can never claim that we deserve better), but particular sufferings are not always directly related to particular sins; practical Deism (Christian Smith) makes us think that God's job is to make us comfortable, & a rejection of this spiritual entitlement (presumption, self-pity) brings the relief of humility; bc of the fall, the real question is why does God allow so much happiness to rebels?
116–18: 2. final judgment & renewal of world: if there's no Judgment Day, we lose hope for justice (& maybe live immorally), or take vengeance ourselves; if there is a Judgment Day, we hope for final & temporal justice, & we don't have to take matters into our own hands (we can forgive)—Judgment Day keeps us from being too passive & too aggressive; felix culpa stuff (Plantinga on Edwards & Kuyper; see n203)—God's plan for suffering leads to a greater good; CSL & JRRT
118–22: 3. incarnation/atonement: Berger notes that while we shouldn't question God (His ways are higher), we're still not satisfied with a "don't question God" answer—& the Bible gives us another help: God suffers (worse than we have—Jesus agonizingly lost an infinite love relationship); the Muslim charge that the Xn God became weak is accurate; so we don't always know the reason why we suffer (just as children don't always understand their parents' decisions), but we know what one of the reasons isn't—that God doesn't care; Voskamp
123: Luther [Augustine?] & incurvatus in se (leads to everything from genocide to marital tension); Jesus came to bear justice
125–29: mother falsely accused of child abuse (children taken away for 9 months, but judge finally dismissed the case); eventually, this mother forgave (& even hugged) the accusing doctor
Ch. 6: The Sovereignty of God
130: "Suffering is both just and unjust" & "God is both a sovereign & a suffering God"
131–32 (just): see n215 for Keller's view that Adam & Eve were real, historical people; it's clear that justice is often retributive (see Proverbs)
132–35 (unjust): there isn't always a clear one-to-one correspondence between particular suffering & someone's actions (see 114–15); sometimes suffering is obviously just (Proverbs—the world is ordered), & sometimes it's not so obvious (Job, Ecclesiastes—God's ways are hidden, & we are often confused); Gerhard von Rad on the uniqueness of the Bible—an unrivaled God creates as an artist, not a warrior; it's natural to want to make sense of things (karma), but we don't control the world; "The Bible's assessment [of humans] is less flattering to non-sufferers and kinder to those who are hurting"
136–38 (suffering as God's enemy): Hart on the tsunami (see n222: Keller thinks Hart over-emphasizes God's distance; God is sovereign over suffering); Jesus was angry about Lazarus's death (see Warfield/Calvin), although He obv. knew that death is just (Bible's view of suffering is nuanced)
138–39: forgetting that suffering is just (since we deserve death) can lead to "I hate thee," & forgetting the suffering is unjust (since we are not always directly to blame) can lead to "I hate me" [in CE I used a parenting example: Xn parents suffering bc of rebellious children can be devastated in 2 ways—Xn parents who have not trained their children well can be devastated if they forget that sometimes suffering is just (they could have trained their children better), & Xn parents who have trained their children well can be devastated if they forget that sometimes suffering is unjust (there really is nothing else they could have done)]
140–44: compatibilism & related verses (Isaiah 10:5–7; Eph. 1:11; Prov. 16:33; Ps. 60:3; Acts 4:27–28); "we always do what we most want to do" [Edwards]; more verses (Prov. 16:9; Gen. 50:20; Rom. 8:28; Acts 2:23; Luke 22:22; the hardening of Pharaoh's heart in Ex. 7–14); God has no "plan B"; Don Carson says that God works good & evil asymmetrically [cf. double predestination]
Ch. 7: The Suffering of God
148: the OT God is tender toward His people
149: God does not need anything, but "impassibility" goes too far
152: McCartney: "Christ learned humanhood from his suffering . . . ; we learn Christhood from our suffering"
153: God's suffering is "voluntary—and therefore . . . fully motivated by love"; we don't obey bc we understand (that would be agreement, not obedience)
153–54: we can trust God bc He suffered for us
155: Judgment Day doesn't just punish evil—it undoes it (see p. 159); scroll in Rev. 5 is God's sovereign plan
156–57: the cross was the worst that evil could do, & it backfired; evil is privation (Boethius) & external force (Manes)—see n254 & Shippey/JRRT reference; Calvin quote on death's being turned on itself; judo
158: Xnity doesn't explain suffering, but it does answer it (X's suffering); Dostoevsky (see n259)
Ch. 8: The Reason for Suffering
163: epigraph (Herbert's "Sin")
164–65: opera arias often turn "sorrow into something beautiful"
165: "post-traumatic growth"; suffering can make people more resilient (suffering produces endurance, character, & hope [Rom. 5:3–4]), strengthen relationships, & change priorities/philosophies
165–66: people who focus on personal achievement/happiness tend not to respond well to suffering; various life stories (some are naive) lead people to respond differently to suffering; "The Bible is filled with cries of lament and shouts of 'Why?' that God does not denounce"
167: suffering & glory are linked in many biblical passages; Xns who are not taught well are offended at the suggestion that suffering can glorify God
167–68: CSL (Reflections on the Psalms) shows that God is not greedy for demanding praise—praise is the proper response for something/someone glorious/beautiful, & we benefit from giving the praise
168–69: glory/kabod/weight/matter/importance/doxa
169: LOTR & imbuing significance to a small object (something other than God)—common in mythology (see JRRT's Letter 121)
170–74: Elizabeth Elliot & letting God be God (not our own creation)—we often want God to act in ways that we can understand (we want God as an accomplice, & reject the freedom that comes from relinquishing control); we cannot trust God only when we understand Him
175: we glorify God to others when we trust God through our suffering
176–77: story of the 2006 shooting in an Amish community [sounds similar to Charleston 2015]; Christians reflect on Christ's suffering for His enemies, & "self-renunciation" (giving up revenge)
178–80: Joni Eareckson Tada & Denise Walters; Taylor's "immanent frame"; we are always "on camera," in a sense; "No suffering is for nothing"
180–81: Jesus was cast out for us
181–85: story of racial tensions, betrayal, illness, death; "It seems that some fruit comes only from suffering"
Ch. 9: Learning to Walk
186: Proust: we usually discover wisdom rather than receive it; suffering is connected to God's glory, but also our glory (2 Cor. 4:17)
187–88: although suffering can lead to our growth, we should never seek it out (masochism)
188–89: suffering can show us legitimate weaknesses in ourselves (e.g., cowardice, selfishness, etc.); depressed people who recover gain wisdom (perhaps more than those who have never suffered with depression, bc depression reveals limitations; those who are never depressed may have an unrealistic view of their abilities)
190–92: suffering "transforms our attitude toward ourselves" (removes blinders, reveals our vulnerability & weaknesses), "change[s] our relationship to the good things in our lives" (reshapes priorities), "strengthen[s] our relationship to God" (CSL quote about God's shouting in our pain), & a "prerequisite if we are going to be of much use to other people" (makes us more compassionate; gives us wisdom; 2 Cor. 1:3–7)
193–96: metaphor of suffering as a gymnasium; word means "naked," bc clothes hide flaws, & if you want to improve, you need to see/know where to improve; too much exercise & too little are both unhelpful [cf. Aristotle's doctrine of the mean in NE, which Luther hated]; suffering has both a limit & a purpose
196–98: we must prepare for suffering [cf. Piper's "ballast" in Spectacular Sins]; hard to learn "on the job"; theological reflection helps us avoid naive views—such as thinking that "good" people don't deserve suffering (shock from this naivety makes suffering worse; there was a purpose to X's suffering)—& helps us know that we shouldn't expect to understand everything (bc we're finite); if God were completely just, we would be dead now
198–202: importance of both head & heart; gap between head knowledge & heart ability to persevere can be large; we need pastoral care, not just facts (which can make us impatient with those who struggle with suffering, despite knowing facts); facts can't just be stored in a warehouse—we have to know how to use them (Carson), & suffering forces the facts to become real; "it is cruel to show a person currently in pain with theological arguments about how God is not responsible for evil and why his wisdom is beyond searching out"
Ch. 10: The Varieties of Suffering
205: epigraph from The Princess Bride; fire can consume or refine
206: there's no one answer for suffering bc sufferings & sufferers are different
207–13: 4 kinds of suffering: our own fault (Jonah, David), doing what's right (Paul, Jeremiah), "universal" (Mary/Martha), "senseless" (Job); Augustine & re-ordering loves
208: we're not punished for our sins (bc of X)?
210: it's okay to pursue justice without vengeance
213: Weil's "The Love of God and Affliction"
213–16: kinds of affliction (based on temperament): isolation, implosion, condemnation, anger, temptation
216: clichés can "grate rather than comfort" (Carson)
217: people want to know that you care
217–18: God gives daily grace
217/219: importance of giving truth in the right order; Newton
For Part 3, see here.
September 16, 2022
Found myself tearing up in just about every chapter of this book. TK doesn’t give a 3 step plan on how to “dust yourself off” in the midst of suffering. But he again and again points readers to the cross, explaining how the only human who’s ever been perfect honestly wrestled with God the father, and endured the greatest suffering in history. He used this to explain how we can understand suffering, how we can face it, and how we can walk through it with God. Highly recommend this book… rich rich stuff.
January 30, 2018
Keller is an amazing writer. In this book he was able to explain what suffering is, give us good reasoning for the problem of evil, and explain very well how to deal with suffering in a Biblical way. What a great book! Honestly the best book I've ever read, and I don't say that lightly. Please read this, whether you are suffering or not, currently. I promise it will change you.
August 15, 2019
Perhaps one of my favorite books. My only fear is that the title would cause people to self-select out of reading it, when I believe it's relevant and appropriate across seasons and experiences. I'm so grateful this book was written, and I anticipate reading it many more times.
November 12, 2024
Very slow paced but the content is worth it!
October 30, 2025
The best book on suffering I’ve read. Going about daily life often feels frenetic, like a snow globe that is shaken to the point where you cannot see sculpture in the center. Suffering has a way of slamming that snow globe down onto the table, all is still, and the flurry subsides. You cannot miss the central sculpture anymore. You see the picture.
October 22, 2020
Informative, logical, encouraging, but likely overwhelming for most clients of mine. I wouldn’t hand this one out or offer to a client without caveats and disclaimers—he is a pastor and doesn’t express the kind of grittiness that comes out of most people I know in the throes of suffering. This is a book directed towards people already steeped in church culture.
March 25, 2025
This book was practical and heartfelt. I would highly recommend it to anyone!
October 22, 2023
Este libro es una locura, en el mejor de los sentidos.
Es profundo y práctico... Ósea = Teología práctica 100% bíblica.
Es profundo y práctico... Ósea = Teología práctica 100% bíblica.
October 23, 2024
This book was amazing. I would highly encourage everyone to read.
March 12, 2024
This book has profoundly changed my heart when it comes to suffering. Even if you’re currently not going through a period of suffering, I would still recommend reading this because of how it highlights the hope of Christ for all
February 3, 2014
A first I didn't want to read this book. I have a prejudice against trendy-looking mega-church pastors, and Tim Keller sort of fits the stereotype, with his shaved head and earring. I was expecting some well worn Christian cliches, lots of Bible verses and little new in terms of insights and wisdom. Boy was I wrong. This was no hyped up how-to book. Walking with God through Pain and Suffering was a philosophical book of sorts, with sound reasoning, logic and grounded theology. I found myself highlighting a lot of sentences and entire paragraphs.
Here are some quotes that resonated with me:
We are so instinctively and profoundly self-centered that we don't believe we are.
The 'rage' at the dying of light' is our intuition that we were not meant for mortality, for the loss of love, or for the triumph of darkness. In order to help people face death and grief we often tell people that death is a perfectly natural part of life. But that asks them to repress a very right and profound human intuition- that we were not meant to simply go to dust.
Almost no one grows into greatness or finds God without suffering, without pain coming into our lives, like smelling salts to wake us up to all sorts of facts about life and our own hearts to which we were blind.
There were many other passages that were compelling. .. This is a book to hold onto, to read and to re-read, as an invaluable resource. For sufferers, people who work with sufferers and people who live with sufferers. And so it is for everyone.
Just started this book, and so far I'm thrilled. It starts off w/a synopsis of different cultures' ways of dealing with suffering. Fascinates me to read how other peoples handle things.... how they understand the world and their purpose in it. We Westerners think our ways are the best. Lots of philosophical insights here. Looking forward to reading this one.
December 22, 2020
Helpful and nuanced :)
July 12, 2020
Let me start by saying, I am a huge Tim Keller fan. He's one of the most insightful authors I've read, and he shares some great insights in this work. This book deserves a five star rating for its passages on how a person should/should not deal with a grieving/suffering person. So, if you're not the grieving, but want to know how to better help those who are, run out and get this book. Or, if you're surrounded by idiots who just can't keep themselves from telling you "It's for the best." or "Everything happens for a reason." or for those who have flat out abandoned you when things are difficult, give this to them as a gift. This book falls short, however, in sharing any new insights for those in the midst of the fiery furnace. From the viewpoint of a Christian who understands God's promises and already has eternal hope, but is seeking practical ways to hurt less in the day to day, there really isn't anything we haven't already heard before. There were several underlinable passages (Jesus was angry about death, and that's okay. Job wrestled with God about his situation, and God still called him righteous.), but for the most part I spent most of the book mentally sparring with the cliche "solutions" for hurting people.
December 31, 2013
Not just a very good book on how to deal with suffering from a Christian worldview but a potent challenge to secularism and a needed corrective to naive Christian responses to the problem of evil. Keller aims to not just answer the problem philosophically but provide readers with a theological and devotional framework to work through the problem in their own lives. He does this well but the book is too long as a result and sometimes repetitive. Keller is best at exposing the inability of secularism to explain or find meaning in suffering and demonstrating how Christianity addresses the problem of suffering better than any other worldview. I wish people would read this book if only to see how Keller exposes the vanity of our materialistic, hedonistic secular culture.
June 23, 2019
The concept of this book is an absolute for everyone in the world we live in today. We all face pain, tragedy, and loss in numerous ways. Unfortunately (at least for me) there was just too much unneeded stuff. If you want to talk about everything that was in the book, I feel like you need to eliminate the God part of the title. I don’t want to come off wrong here, but who’s God? Which god? There were related chapters as well as information about God relating to Christianity, but there was also a tremendous amount of philosophy and other religious views. I truly have no problem with this, but I think a book of this nature might fall under the religious/philosophy umbrella rather than the Christianity category.
May 20, 2018
Who would of thought that a book with a subject about pain and suffering would bring such joy. God has gifted Timothy Keller with such wisdom in understanding the human heart. If you are reading this and even slightly feel inclined to give this book a try I wouldn’t absolutely urge you to do so. May it give you a song of joy in your heart as well. “It cannot be that He doesn’t love us. It cannot be that He doesn’t care. He is so committed to our personal happiness that He was willing to plunge into the greatest depths of suffering Himself. He understands us. Yes that is only half the answer to the question’ “why?” But it is the answer we need.” -Tim Keller
March 2, 2024
Leste denne igjen. Fikk en ny påminnelse om hvor god boken er, hvor mye den har betydd for meg og hvor fantastiske ressursene Bibelen gir oss i møte med ondskap og lidelse er. Takk Gud!
May 22, 2025
Amazing book on suffering well with the hope and peace that Christ brings at the center of our lives!
“The gift of pain is the gift of God himself.”
“Everything is needful that he sends; nothing can be needful that he withholds.”
“When you cannot see your way, be satisfied that he is your leader. When your spirit is overwhelmed within you, he knows your path: he will not leave you to sink.”
“Suffering dispels the illusion that we have the strength and competence to rule our own lives and save ourselves.”
“A personal God is a purposeful God.”
“Only when our greatest love is God, a love we cannot lose even in death, can we face all things with peace.”
“The gift of pain is the gift of God himself.”
“Everything is needful that he sends; nothing can be needful that he withholds.”
“When you cannot see your way, be satisfied that he is your leader. When your spirit is overwhelmed within you, he knows your path: he will not leave you to sink.”
“Suffering dispels the illusion that we have the strength and competence to rule our own lives and save ourselves.”
“A personal God is a purposeful God.”
“Only when our greatest love is God, a love we cannot lose even in death, can we face all things with peace.”
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