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Faidros/Symposion
"Disse to berømte skrifter er viet Eros, den højere, åndelige kærlighed og dens kunst.
I Faidros, der desuden indeholder et opgør med den tomme sofistiske talekunst, diskuteres sjælens udødelighed. Sokrates opruller her det prægnante billede af menneskets væsen som en vogn forspændt med to hest, hvoraf den ene stræber mod himmelen og det guddommelige og evige, medens den anden trækker nedad mod jorden, mod det sanselige og forgængelige. At have skuet det himmelske og stræbe efter det, også når man af den jordiske del af sit væsen tynges ned, det er efter Platons mening sand og åndelig kærlighed.
Denne grundtanke findes også i den afsluttende dialog i Symposion, hvor den nærmere udformes, både med hensyn til den personlige stræben og med hensyn til det pædagogiske, vejledningen af andre, hvor det gælder om at lede eleven frem til selv at gøre erkendelsen, den majeutiske metode ("jordemodermetoden"), der er Sokrates' egen. De indledende taler ved drikkelaget, symposiet, af de deltagende om kærligheden og dens væsen er åndfulde og smukke og for en nutidslæser egentlig så inderligt bekendte, da dette værk afgørende har præget hele vor kulturs syn på kærligheden."
I Faidros, der desuden indeholder et opgør med den tomme sofistiske talekunst, diskuteres sjælens udødelighed. Sokrates opruller her det prægnante billede af menneskets væsen som en vogn forspændt med to hest, hvoraf den ene stræber mod himmelen og det guddommelige og evige, medens den anden trækker nedad mod jorden, mod det sanselige og forgængelige. At have skuet det himmelske og stræbe efter det, også når man af den jordiske del af sit væsen tynges ned, det er efter Platons mening sand og åndelig kærlighed.
Denne grundtanke findes også i den afsluttende dialog i Symposion, hvor den nærmere udformes, både med hensyn til den personlige stræben og med hensyn til det pædagogiske, vejledningen af andre, hvor det gælder om at lede eleven frem til selv at gøre erkendelsen, den majeutiske metode ("jordemodermetoden"), der er Sokrates' egen. De indledende taler ved drikkelaget, symposiet, af de deltagende om kærligheden og dens væsen er åndfulde og smukke og for en nutidslæser egentlig så inderligt bekendte, da dette værk afgørende har præget hele vor kulturs syn på kærligheden."
157 pages, Paperback
First published January 1, 371
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About the author
Plato
5,195 books8,596 followersPlato (Greek: Πλάτων), born Aristocles (c. 427 – 348 BC), was an ancient Greek philosopher of the Classical period who is considered a foundational thinker in Western philosophy and an innovator of the written dialogue and dialectic forms. He raised problems for what became all the major areas of both theoretical philosophy and practical philosophy, and was the founder of the Platonic Academy, a philosophical school in Athens where Plato taught the doctrines that would later become known as Platonism.
Plato's most famous contribution is the theory of forms (or ideas), which has been interpreted as advancing a solution to what is now known as the problem of universals. He was decisively influenced by the pre-Socratic thinkers Pythagoras, Heraclitus, and Parmenides, although much of what is known about them is derived from Plato himself.
Along with his teacher Socrates, and Aristotle, his student, Plato is a central figure in the history of philosophy. Plato's entire body of work is believed to have survived intact for over 2,400 years—unlike that of nearly all of his contemporaries. Although their popularity has fluctuated, they have consistently been read and studied through the ages. Through Neoplatonism, he also greatly influenced both Christian and Islamic philosophy. In modern times, Alfred North Whitehead famously said: "the safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato."
Plato's most famous contribution is the theory of forms (or ideas), which has been interpreted as advancing a solution to what is now known as the problem of universals. He was decisively influenced by the pre-Socratic thinkers Pythagoras, Heraclitus, and Parmenides, although much of what is known about them is derived from Plato himself.
Along with his teacher Socrates, and Aristotle, his student, Plato is a central figure in the history of philosophy. Plato's entire body of work is believed to have survived intact for over 2,400 years—unlike that of nearly all of his contemporaries. Although their popularity has fluctuated, they have consistently been read and studied through the ages. Through Neoplatonism, he also greatly influenced both Christian and Islamic philosophy. In modern times, Alfred North Whitehead famously said: "the safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato."
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 83 reviews
January 24, 2011
What is love? Well, it usually doesn't involve women, that's for sure.
August 8, 2021
I last read The Symposium at university decades ago. James Romm’s ‘The Sacred Band’ sent me back to look at it again - and yes, Plato does indeed describe Athenian and Spartan attitudes to homosexuality as “complicated”, as opposed to the more free and easy attitudes of the Boeotians (a neighbouring Greek state to Athens, and a bitter foe to Sparta). Moreover, Plato suggests these more liberal attitudes were due to the Boeotians being unsophisticated country bumpkins, unlike the sophisticated Athenian metropolitan elites.
Romm himself situates the Boeotian happy and well-adjusted gay traditions in the context of the local mythology and religious and pilgrimage shrines of their nation (he suggests they observed gay marriage between equal partners) which may help in part to explain things, although Sparta’s premier religious festival was based on the Apollo+Hyacinth myth, which nevertheless failed to fully liberalise Sparta’s attitudes (which were, like Athens’s, “complicated”)
The Symposium contains the delightfully daft origin myth/metaphor for human sexual orientations - there were originally three sexes, and we were all cut in half by vengeful gods, so that we all perpetually seek out our other halves. Men seek men; women women, and hermaphrodites seek either men or women, depending on which half you originally were.
I can’t remember reading Phaedrus before. But it was very charming to read about unruly horses pulling charioteers adrift coincidentally on the same day as the unfortunate German Olympian was experiencing her own equine troubles. Plato also rails against writing in this text, and again whilst bonkers his thoughts are definitely stimulating.
Romm himself situates the Boeotian happy and well-adjusted gay traditions in the context of the local mythology and religious and pilgrimage shrines of their nation (he suggests they observed gay marriage between equal partners) which may help in part to explain things, although Sparta’s premier religious festival was based on the Apollo+Hyacinth myth, which nevertheless failed to fully liberalise Sparta’s attitudes (which were, like Athens’s, “complicated”)
The Symposium contains the delightfully daft origin myth/metaphor for human sexual orientations - there were originally three sexes, and we were all cut in half by vengeful gods, so that we all perpetually seek out our other halves. Men seek men; women women, and hermaphrodites seek either men or women, depending on which half you originally were.
I can’t remember reading Phaedrus before. But it was very charming to read about unruly horses pulling charioteers adrift coincidentally on the same day as the unfortunate German Olympian was experiencing her own equine troubles. Plato also rails against writing in this text, and again whilst bonkers his thoughts are definitely stimulating.
September 30, 2023
Pretty good
December 13, 2024
El primer discurso raro en plan machista y el segundo se me ha hecho un poco chapa salvo el final.
July 22, 2023
this is just about how everyone wants to fuck socrates
October 6, 2009
my favorite speech is Aristophanes - where he tells the story of how Zeus spilt androgenous people in half, and we are looking for our other half, and finding that person is what love is...
March 20, 2017
To be clear, I'm giving The Symposium 5 stars, not Phaedrus. The Symposium was a delight to read! I absolutely loved it. Phaedrus was okay, but I think Plato has much better dialogues, honestly.
February 12, 2020
My 5 stars are for the symposium only. The perfect read for Valentine’s Day!! Keep in mind what is “love” really? And who is right for you in sentiment?
May 24, 2023
Nunca sé realmente qué piensa Platón. Siempre habla por medio de los demás.
Pues son como 6-8 weyes hablando de lo que es el amor en una época... muy diferente en ese sentido.
Del lado filosófico tienen puntos sobre el placer, la belleza, el amor, el sexo, etc... Perp todo el discurso es sobre el amor. Definen algunos conceptos que hoy en día damos por obvios. Al final es Grecia antigua, pre-estóicos, con algunas verdades absolutas como los dioses y demasiado civilizados. Interesante, pero no mind-blowing.
Muy curiosa la super-sexualización de Sócrates y los "hermosos jóvenes", y querer pasar las noches con él, y ponerse celosos por él, y estar enamorados de él y hasta ser friendzoneados por él (morros de 16-ish por un vato de 40-ish).
Medio inesperado lo abierto que era el tema sexual. Hablan de orgías como cosa regular entre ellos y a veces con mujeres también. Dificil imaginar que hace 2000 años eran más abiertos sexualmente que hoy.
Hace 2000 años y hoy en día, el tema del amor y la forma de verlo no ha cambiado tanto. La belleza, el sexo y los demás temas que tocan, desgraciadamente, sí han cambiado mucho.
Me lo aventé express en unos vuelos que tuve. Casualmente así es como siempre eh leído a Platón: en aviones.
Dato curioso: Mencionan el dicho famoso que los borrachos y los niños no pueden mentir. Es el uso mas antiguo que yo eh visto.
Pues son como 6-8 weyes hablando de lo que es el amor en una época... muy diferente en ese sentido.
Del lado filosófico tienen puntos sobre el placer, la belleza, el amor, el sexo, etc... Perp todo el discurso es sobre el amor. Definen algunos conceptos que hoy en día damos por obvios. Al final es Grecia antigua, pre-estóicos, con algunas verdades absolutas como los dioses y demasiado civilizados. Interesante, pero no mind-blowing.
Muy curiosa la super-sexualización de Sócrates y los "hermosos jóvenes", y querer pasar las noches con él, y ponerse celosos por él, y estar enamorados de él y hasta ser friendzoneados por él (morros de 16-ish por un vato de 40-ish).
Medio inesperado lo abierto que era el tema sexual. Hablan de orgías como cosa regular entre ellos y a veces con mujeres también. Dificil imaginar que hace 2000 años eran más abiertos sexualmente que hoy.
Hace 2000 años y hoy en día, el tema del amor y la forma de verlo no ha cambiado tanto. La belleza, el sexo y los demás temas que tocan, desgraciadamente, sí han cambiado mucho.
Me lo aventé express en unos vuelos que tuve. Casualmente así es como siempre eh leído a Platón: en aviones.
Dato curioso: Mencionan el dicho famoso que los borrachos y los niños no pueden mentir. Es el uso mas antiguo que yo eh visto.
August 4, 2020
This book, containing 2 dialogues, is fundamental for understanding one of the most predominant western traditions concerning love and beauty. These books influenced the Neoplatonic views on ascension to the divine, on beauty, and on love; and, through the neoplatonists, the early and medieval christian theologians.
July 19, 2024
Qué aburrimiento, colega. 150 páginas para explicar que todos son gays.
October 10, 2024
I read this purely for Alcibiades waxing (gay) poetry at Socrates. 10/10 no regrets
June 15, 2022
El banquete 5/5, Fedro 3/5. De cualquier modo, la exposición del mito del carro alado en el Fedro ya bien vale la leída. De El banquete, decir que es de las cosas más hermosas jamás escritas. El mito del ser humano dividido en dos mitades que expone Aristófanes, del cual surge la definición del amor como la búsqueda de la otra mitad, es sublime. Tan sublime que esa es una de las definiciones/teorías del amor más extendidas hasta nuestros días. Más de dos mil años de vigencia.
August 11, 2019
El banquete es enriquecedor. Fedro medio pesado.
August 9, 2023
Favorite speech: L’art du discours (the Art of Speech? I read this book in French)
Personal opinion, I think this is just another one of these books that makes me feel that we need to stop overly glamorizing Greek Philosophers and we need to start looking at Non-Western philosophy.
Personal opinion, I think this is just another one of these books that makes me feel that we need to stop overly glamorizing Greek Philosophers and we need to start looking at Non-Western philosophy.
August 25, 2023
Okay, but hear me out:
A modern day, lesbian rewrite of Symposium???
A modern day, lesbian rewrite of Symposium???
August 22, 2015
On the Symposium:
First things first, the reason I found this translation so smooth and entertaining is the language, this is by far the easiest English book I've read.
In the Symposium, Agathon holds a supper with his friends (writers and philosophers) and they all decide to make their devotions and praises to the god Eros/Cupid (god of love). Phaedrus (an idealist) states that an army made up entirely of lovers would be the ultimate force against a state's foes, because a lover wouldn't dare to abandon his boyfriend in battle or even dare to show cowardliness, lest being unworthy of the love. Pausanias (a realist) says that there are two Aphrodites, heavenly and common. The one Heavenly is associated with the love of the soul and the common, the love of the body. He also adds that there "isn't one single form of love" and that "love is neither right not wrong in itself" and "It is wrong if you satisfy the wrong person". He defines the wrong person as the one who loves what isn't lasting, the body, rather than the mind. According to Pausanias, the right kind of love is to love the goodness in your lover in order to learn from him and his wisdom. Socrates defines Eros as the love of something you desire and obviously what you desire, you lack and that a wise man can't desire to be wise, since he is wise already and a foolish man can't desire what he doesn't value. So, it must be one of the intermediate class who desires something, because he is neither ignorant nor in possession of what he wants. He also says that man is capable of producing physical and mental offsprings. Physical offspring is ordinary children. Mental offspring is our achievements in life, and both are produced in pursuit of immortality. This was just a quick review of what happened on that splendid supper and I would happily read the Symposium again in the future.
On the Phaedrus:
A conversation between Socrates and his friend Phaedrus on love, speech-making, the soul, reincarnation and writing. Socrates despises desire as a form of excess and that it brings ruin to men in different aspects of life including love and food. Socrates' picture of the soul is a winged form in the heavens with a chariot and two horses following whatever a god it prefers, and that whenever a soul descends to the earth and posses a body it begins to imitate the god it has followed before its earthly birth. On the writing matter, Socrates doesn't approve of whatever is written because in his mind, writing produces forgetfulness and "disuse of memory" and that people would rely on what is written to acquire knowledge rather than experiencing things themselves. Finally, the scientific way of speaking or writing according to Socrates is to know the truth of what you say, to be able to define everything you say and to know whom to address this speech to.
I really find the Symposium to be more entertaining. The Phaedrus is just so rich with different topics and I guess I will have to read it again to ensure my full understanding.
First things first, the reason I found this translation so smooth and entertaining is the language, this is by far the easiest English book I've read.
In the Symposium, Agathon holds a supper with his friends (writers and philosophers) and they all decide to make their devotions and praises to the god Eros/Cupid (god of love). Phaedrus (an idealist) states that an army made up entirely of lovers would be the ultimate force against a state's foes, because a lover wouldn't dare to abandon his boyfriend in battle or even dare to show cowardliness, lest being unworthy of the love. Pausanias (a realist) says that there are two Aphrodites, heavenly and common. The one Heavenly is associated with the love of the soul and the common, the love of the body. He also adds that there "isn't one single form of love" and that "love is neither right not wrong in itself" and "It is wrong if you satisfy the wrong person". He defines the wrong person as the one who loves what isn't lasting, the body, rather than the mind. According to Pausanias, the right kind of love is to love the goodness in your lover in order to learn from him and his wisdom. Socrates defines Eros as the love of something you desire and obviously what you desire, you lack and that a wise man can't desire to be wise, since he is wise already and a foolish man can't desire what he doesn't value. So, it must be one of the intermediate class who desires something, because he is neither ignorant nor in possession of what he wants. He also says that man is capable of producing physical and mental offsprings. Physical offspring is ordinary children. Mental offspring is our achievements in life, and both are produced in pursuit of immortality. This was just a quick review of what happened on that splendid supper and I would happily read the Symposium again in the future.
On the Phaedrus:
A conversation between Socrates and his friend Phaedrus on love, speech-making, the soul, reincarnation and writing. Socrates despises desire as a form of excess and that it brings ruin to men in different aspects of life including love and food. Socrates' picture of the soul is a winged form in the heavens with a chariot and two horses following whatever a god it prefers, and that whenever a soul descends to the earth and posses a body it begins to imitate the god it has followed before its earthly birth. On the writing matter, Socrates doesn't approve of whatever is written because in his mind, writing produces forgetfulness and "disuse of memory" and that people would rely on what is written to acquire knowledge rather than experiencing things themselves. Finally, the scientific way of speaking or writing according to Socrates is to know the truth of what you say, to be able to define everything you say and to know whom to address this speech to.
I really find the Symposium to be more entertaining. The Phaedrus is just so rich with different topics and I guess I will have to read it again to ensure my full understanding.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
February 19, 2013
Le banquet
On pourra bien s’opposer à la philosophie de Platon, personne ne va nier la puissance exceptionnelle avec laquelle il l’a l’extériorisée. Et en plein cœur de cette œuvre sublime, les caractères du premier alphabet disposant de voyelles brillent comme jamais dans le dialogue consacré à l’amour qu’est « Le Banquet ».
L’atmosphère festive où se déroule la discussion donne au lecteur une impression de fraîcheur et de légèreté, alors qu’il assiste à une discussion portant sur des sujets parmi les plus graves et les plus sérieux, comme l’amour, le sens de la vie, le Beau et le Bien. De plus, comme on le dit avec tant de justesse depuis si longtemps « In vino veritas ». Chacun des convives (exception faite de Socrate dont l’esprit est toujours le plus libre), l’esprit délié par le vin s’y exprimera en toute franchise et avec plus de souplesse et d’ingéniosité qu’il le ferait habituellement.
Dans la continuité de l’Apologie, Platon présente à son banquet un Socrate parfaitement chaste qui ne corrompt en rien la jeunesse. Bien au contraire, l’interruption de la discussion par Alcibiade permet de montrer toute la fausseté de cette accusation faite contre Socrate à son procès, puisque ce dernier, dédaignant même le corps du plus joli des jeunes hommes d’Athènes, n’a jamais fait mine de séduire les jeunes gens que pour leur faire accoucher de leurs meilleures possibilités spirituelles et morales.
Sur le plan du discours, Platon réalise aussi sur son lecteur le même phénomène maïeutique que Socrate pratiquait dans les rues de sa cité. Il sait que personne ne peut s’élever à la moralité si elle est présentée directement, mais qu’en appâtant habilement le lecteur avec des discours esthétiques et légers, l’amour du Bien viendra couronner le tout d’une manière toute naturelle. Son apparent éloge du dionysiaque se transforme ainsi insensiblement et d’autant plus sûrement en un triomphe complet des principes apolliniens.
Quelle admirable réussite que ce Banquet!
Platon demeure d’ailleurs le seul auteur de l’Antiquité dont l’œuvre entière nous soit parvenue (dans la mesure, évidemment où l’on met de côté les hypothèses sur une œuvre ésotérique qui n’aurait été distribuée qu’entre les seuls murs de l’Académie).
Véritable étoile au ciel de la philosophie, mais aussi de la moralité et de l’art, Platon reste éternellement présent, depuis le moment où il a dicté ou écrit lui-même ses dialogues, en passant par les multiples mains des copistes et traducteurs, puis par les presses d’imprimerie jusqu’aux formats numériques, d’environ 380 avant le Christ jusqu’à aujourd’hui, presque 2500 ans plus tard, il continue encore et toujours à servir aussi magnifiquement de point repère dans l’horizon spirituel humain.
On pourra bien s’opposer à la philosophie de Platon, personne ne va nier la puissance exceptionnelle avec laquelle il l’a l’extériorisée. Et en plein cœur de cette œuvre sublime, les caractères du premier alphabet disposant de voyelles brillent comme jamais dans le dialogue consacré à l’amour qu’est « Le Banquet ».
L’atmosphère festive où se déroule la discussion donne au lecteur une impression de fraîcheur et de légèreté, alors qu’il assiste à une discussion portant sur des sujets parmi les plus graves et les plus sérieux, comme l’amour, le sens de la vie, le Beau et le Bien. De plus, comme on le dit avec tant de justesse depuis si longtemps « In vino veritas ». Chacun des convives (exception faite de Socrate dont l’esprit est toujours le plus libre), l’esprit délié par le vin s’y exprimera en toute franchise et avec plus de souplesse et d’ingéniosité qu’il le ferait habituellement.
Dans la continuité de l’Apologie, Platon présente à son banquet un Socrate parfaitement chaste qui ne corrompt en rien la jeunesse. Bien au contraire, l’interruption de la discussion par Alcibiade permet de montrer toute la fausseté de cette accusation faite contre Socrate à son procès, puisque ce dernier, dédaignant même le corps du plus joli des jeunes hommes d’Athènes, n’a jamais fait mine de séduire les jeunes gens que pour leur faire accoucher de leurs meilleures possibilités spirituelles et morales.
Sur le plan du discours, Platon réalise aussi sur son lecteur le même phénomène maïeutique que Socrate pratiquait dans les rues de sa cité. Il sait que personne ne peut s’élever à la moralité si elle est présentée directement, mais qu’en appâtant habilement le lecteur avec des discours esthétiques et légers, l’amour du Bien viendra couronner le tout d’une manière toute naturelle. Son apparent éloge du dionysiaque se transforme ainsi insensiblement et d’autant plus sûrement en un triomphe complet des principes apolliniens.
Quelle admirable réussite que ce Banquet!
Platon demeure d’ailleurs le seul auteur de l’Antiquité dont l’œuvre entière nous soit parvenue (dans la mesure, évidemment où l’on met de côté les hypothèses sur une œuvre ésotérique qui n’aurait été distribuée qu’entre les seuls murs de l’Académie).
Véritable étoile au ciel de la philosophie, mais aussi de la moralité et de l’art, Platon reste éternellement présent, depuis le moment où il a dicté ou écrit lui-même ses dialogues, en passant par les multiples mains des copistes et traducteurs, puis par les presses d’imprimerie jusqu’aux formats numériques, d’environ 380 avant le Christ jusqu’à aujourd’hui, presque 2500 ans plus tard, il continue encore et toujours à servir aussi magnifiquement de point repère dans l’horizon spirituel humain.
November 28, 2007
ah, the populated and one-sided dialogues of plato .... wanted to read again of the ladder of love: you start off being physically attracted to one other beautiful body .. but then, you think why just be attracted to one body? why not be attracted to them all? ... but then, you will come to see that beauty is even more perfectly situated in the soul rather than the body. once you have become attracted to physical beauty, next you will be attracted to beautiful souls and will fall in love with beautiful souls, perhaps neglecting to see the physical. gradually you ascend this ladder which will lead you ever further and further away from particular humans in their bodies towards ever more abstract objects of desire. you start to fall in love with the arts, sciences, laws, cultures, ideas .. and finally, revealed to you at the top of the ladder is this transcendent vision of the form of beauty itself .. and there, with that vision, life will be truly livable, if life is livable anywhere... to clarify, if you are in love with one beautiful person or soul, you are enslaved to them, you're trapped. they could die, they could leave you, they could stop loving you .. it's a painful, transitory, vulnerable existence... but, the form of beauty is always going to be there for you ... and yet, interestingly enough, it's never going to love you back. the form of beauty is perfect and has no need of your love, it's a one way experience. so we have to ask ourselves then, is this still a state of being in love?
November 4, 2021
I read this book in the hopes of learning more about how Plato’s mind works. Despite its difficult grammar–eighty pages feels like an eternity–it is immensely sustaining for both, my brain and soul. It narrates the account of seven renowned, I hesitate to use the adjective ‘wise,’ individuals who attended a banquet and contributed to the encomiums of love one by one. It gives us a distinct perspective on the origins of love, in general, any sort of love, including love between people of the same sex. This dialogue, which delves into the meaning of love using rhetorical and poetical methods, is most likely the origin of platonic love, making it the oldest literature I’ve ever read as it was written by Plato in c. 385-370 BC. I feel compelled to place this review into the right translation version because each translator may interpret the text differently. This book would be ideal for anyone who enjoys Greek gods and goddesses.
April 2, 2008
With some amazing bits on memory and dialogue, I found these two texts really thought-provoking. But on the whole, there's a lot of tediousness to be gotten through. When you're set up immediately with the understanding that the "final truth" on any subject will rest with Socrates, I found that I read with a significant amount of indifference to what most of the other participants in the conversations had to say, and then very critically about what Socrates concludes. The narrative stuff is gold, though.
August 15, 2014
The Platonic dialogue "Symposium" starts out sounding like a manifesto for NAMBLA then becomes a foofaraw in which the literal and the metaphorical are purposely conflated for rhetorical advantage before finally getting to a half-dozen pages of fairly interesting philosophizing and then degrading into a stroke fest extolling the virtues of Socrates.
January 15, 2008
I have only read "Symposium", but I enjoyed some of the more narrative parts, and understood most of it at a young age. He was the "original" plagiarist (all writers are, really - some are just better at slight-of-hand and hiding it). You can quote me on that last bit.
February 10, 2007
Platón, y dos bellos "diálogos" sobre el amor y la belleza. Plásticamente preciosos, hay que profundizar en su lectura...
May 7, 2012
Like mid-career Eddie Murphy, Socrates lived to provoke. Unlike late-career Eddie Murphy, he died for it, too.
October 8, 2013
"I'm pretty much going to say whatever I need to say to get you to side with me that having an intimate relationship with a minor is okay....okay?"
February 14, 2011
incredible writing, really makes you think
March 20, 2023
Written For School:
“Love is born into every human being; it calls back the halves of our original nature together; it tries to make one out of two and heal the wound of human nature.”
― Plato, The Symposium
Summary:
The Symposium and Phaedrus explore the concept of love in a simultaneously philosophical and unpretentiously honest way. In both translations Plato’s passion for exploring the topic and his reverence for his teacher Socrates. The Symposium follows a light-natured competition to give the best speech dedicated to the Greek god of love, Eros. The text explores the many definitions of love, the impact it can have on men, and the perils of less derivative definitions. Phaedrus is a dialogue between Socrates and Phaedrus, an Athenian aristocrat. The pervasive theme of love extends throughout the text, but their dialogue also explores the concept of reincarnation, the constructs of the human soul, and the art of rhetoric.
Author:
Plato is considered one of the most important figures of western philosophy. Taught by Socrates, he was able to contemplate complex ideas of politics and philosophy, a gift that he passed on to his student Aristotle. Not much is known about Plato’s early life, but we do know that he was born into a family of aristocrats with three siblings. He was said to be eager to learn and work hard in his studies, so he was likely trained by the most prestigious teachers of his time. Plato would go on to found The Academy just outside of Athens. In 375 BC Plato wrote and compiled his masterful Socratic dialogue entitled The Republic.
Observations:
The Symposium:
This is perhaps the best [and most natural] example of Plato using a Socratic Dialogue, a style he mastered throughout 35 works. The Symposium takes place at the dinner table in a friendly contest, thus, unlike a piece like The Republic, its conversations feel unforced and unpretentious. Each speaker provides a passionate speech dedicated to love, but as usual, Plato focuses the most on the words of Socrates. Unlike the other speakers, Socrates supposes that love is not a god, but instead a force between god and man that connects them and everything else in the universe.
Phaedrus:
Like The Symposium, Phaedrus centers around a few speeches on the topic of love. The central characters are Socrates and the young Athenian aristocrat Phaedrus. Throughout the dialogue, the two have several disagreements that ultimately lead to constructive realizations. To me, the most striking part of this dialogue is the way Socrates changes his mind [while crossing the river] thanks to Phaedrus before giving another speech. Besides love, Phaedrus also discusses madness, the soul, the madness of love, and rhetorical devices. The most powerful [or at least iconic] section of Phaedrus is Plato’s “Chariot Allegory”. In this allegory, the charioteer [the driver] embodies intellect and the human mind. One horse represents man’s rational passions and the other represents irrational impulses. The charioteer’s job is to steer the two in the same direction without letting the swerve in different directions.
Conclusion:
The Symposium and Phaedrus are significant milestones in Greek philosophy and humanity’s understanding of love. Each offers equally valuable knowledge and insight that will leave the reader with a more diverse view on love as well as speech and Socratic dialogue. I would recommend these books to anyone with an interest in philosophy or morals and reasons for love.
“Love is born into every human being; it calls back the halves of our original nature together; it tries to make one out of two and heal the wound of human nature.”
― Plato, The Symposium
Summary:
The Symposium and Phaedrus explore the concept of love in a simultaneously philosophical and unpretentiously honest way. In both translations Plato’s passion for exploring the topic and his reverence for his teacher Socrates. The Symposium follows a light-natured competition to give the best speech dedicated to the Greek god of love, Eros. The text explores the many definitions of love, the impact it can have on men, and the perils of less derivative definitions. Phaedrus is a dialogue between Socrates and Phaedrus, an Athenian aristocrat. The pervasive theme of love extends throughout the text, but their dialogue also explores the concept of reincarnation, the constructs of the human soul, and the art of rhetoric.
Author:
Plato is considered one of the most important figures of western philosophy. Taught by Socrates, he was able to contemplate complex ideas of politics and philosophy, a gift that he passed on to his student Aristotle. Not much is known about Plato’s early life, but we do know that he was born into a family of aristocrats with three siblings. He was said to be eager to learn and work hard in his studies, so he was likely trained by the most prestigious teachers of his time. Plato would go on to found The Academy just outside of Athens. In 375 BC Plato wrote and compiled his masterful Socratic dialogue entitled The Republic.
Observations:
The Symposium:
This is perhaps the best [and most natural] example of Plato using a Socratic Dialogue, a style he mastered throughout 35 works. The Symposium takes place at the dinner table in a friendly contest, thus, unlike a piece like The Republic, its conversations feel unforced and unpretentious. Each speaker provides a passionate speech dedicated to love, but as usual, Plato focuses the most on the words of Socrates. Unlike the other speakers, Socrates supposes that love is not a god, but instead a force between god and man that connects them and everything else in the universe.
Phaedrus:
Like The Symposium, Phaedrus centers around a few speeches on the topic of love. The central characters are Socrates and the young Athenian aristocrat Phaedrus. Throughout the dialogue, the two have several disagreements that ultimately lead to constructive realizations. To me, the most striking part of this dialogue is the way Socrates changes his mind [while crossing the river] thanks to Phaedrus before giving another speech. Besides love, Phaedrus also discusses madness, the soul, the madness of love, and rhetorical devices. The most powerful [or at least iconic] section of Phaedrus is Plato’s “Chariot Allegory”. In this allegory, the charioteer [the driver] embodies intellect and the human mind. One horse represents man’s rational passions and the other represents irrational impulses. The charioteer’s job is to steer the two in the same direction without letting the swerve in different directions.
Conclusion:
The Symposium and Phaedrus are significant milestones in Greek philosophy and humanity’s understanding of love. Each offers equally valuable knowledge and insight that will leave the reader with a more diverse view on love as well as speech and Socratic dialogue. I would recommend these books to anyone with an interest in philosophy or morals and reasons for love.
August 14, 2021
Thật sự đây là Cuốn sách rất có não dạo này mình đọc được, khi đọc kiểu rất bất ngờ về các quan niệm mới lạ mà tới giờ mới biết đồng thời biết thêm nhiều về các câu chuyện hay ho về thần thoại hy lạp như trước kia con người có hình dạng như qua trứng, tất cả đều gấp đôi 4 chân, 4 tay hai mặt đối diện nhai và nhất là hai giới có thể là nam nam, nữ nữ và nữ nam, bởi vì do gấp đôi nên cũng thông minh hơn nên họ muốn lật đổ thần linh nên khi thần zeus biết đã quyết định chẻ con người làm đôi vừa giảm sự thông minh vừa tăng số lượng người cúng tế và lỗ rốn là dấu tích còn xót lại để nhắc nhở sự việc đó và chính vì điều đó mà con người chúng ta cứ nháo nhào đi tìm một nữa bị mất và luôn cảm giác bị thiếu hụt gì đó, 😝 kiểu bất ngờ thật sự, và ngoài điều đó ra nếu bạn không biết hoặc tò mò về cách các triết gia Hy Lạp thời xưa quan điểm thế nào và nghỉ gì về tình yêu thì đây chính là quyển sách dành cho bạn.
Dẫu xa với thế hệ chúng ta hàng ngàn năm TCN nhưng quan niệm của họ vẫn rất ấn tượng và mang nhiều dấu ấn của triết học về sự hình thành của con người, tình yêu và tác động của nó với con người,đặc biệt thích cách triết gia Socrates (cha đẻ của triết học phương tây) lập luận một cách rất xuất sắc về các vấn đề nếu trên.Truyện được chia làm hai phần, một là ở yến hội (một hoạt động sinh hoạt rất phổ biến thời xưa), hai là cuộc trò chuyện giữa phaedrus với Socrates thì nhìn chung là mình thích cái phần một là yến hội hơn bởi vì ở đây ta sẽ thấy khá nhiều quan điểm hay diễn từ hay ho lần lượt được nếu ra để ca ngợi về erôs (vị thần tình yêu) vd phacdrus nói về erôs '' giúp loài người can đảm, đức hạnh và hạnh phúc, cả khi sống lẫn khi chết '',..... Các lập luận và diễn từ nêu ra luôn đi kèm với dẫn chứng, các điển tích điển cố của thần thoại hy lạp một cách rất logic từ đó để làm rõ quan điểm của mình và Socrates không hổ dành là cha đẻ của triết học phương tây bởi vì cách ông lập luận từ tốn , chậm rãi đồng thời cách lập luận vô cùng sắc bén khi lấy chính luận điểm của người khác để hỏi và vặn ngược lại thật sự rất rất hay 👍👍👍.
Dẫu xa với thế hệ chúng ta hàng ngàn năm TCN nhưng quan niệm của họ vẫn rất ấn tượng và mang nhiều dấu ấn của triết học về sự hình thành của con người, tình yêu và tác động của nó với con người,đặc biệt thích cách triết gia Socrates (cha đẻ của triết học phương tây) lập luận một cách rất xuất sắc về các vấn đề nếu trên.Truyện được chia làm hai phần, một là ở yến hội (một hoạt động sinh hoạt rất phổ biến thời xưa), hai là cuộc trò chuyện giữa phaedrus với Socrates thì nhìn chung là mình thích cái phần một là yến hội hơn bởi vì ở đây ta sẽ thấy khá nhiều quan điểm hay diễn từ hay ho lần lượt được nếu ra để ca ngợi về erôs (vị thần tình yêu) vd phacdrus nói về erôs '' giúp loài người can đảm, đức hạnh và hạnh phúc, cả khi sống lẫn khi chết '',..... Các lập luận và diễn từ nêu ra luôn đi kèm với dẫn chứng, các điển tích điển cố của thần thoại hy lạp một cách rất logic từ đó để làm rõ quan điểm của mình và Socrates không hổ dành là cha đẻ của triết học phương tây bởi vì cách ông lập luận từ tốn , chậm rãi đồng thời cách lập luận vô cùng sắc bén khi lấy chính luận điểm của người khác để hỏi và vặn ngược lại thật sự rất rất hay 👍👍👍.
January 3, 2024
There are three main reasons why people read Plato’s Phaedrus: love, rhetoric, and metempsychosis.
Most, I’d say, read it as an endeavor to uncover the meaning of love, to study the differences between the lover and the beloved, and to compare the non-lover to the lover. Then, there are the literature and philosophy students who are often required to read it while studying rhetoric. And, finally, there are those —like an old Druze friend of mine — who go to it to learn more about Plato’s idea of metempsychosis.
I was a curious (bored) student once, so I’ve naturally read Phaedrus multiple times for the above reasons. But today, as I find myself suffering from a mild hangover, I’m reading Phaedrus for entirely different reasons.
My Notes:
https://boredabsurdist.com/2024/01/03...
Most, I’d say, read it as an endeavor to uncover the meaning of love, to study the differences between the lover and the beloved, and to compare the non-lover to the lover. Then, there are the literature and philosophy students who are often required to read it while studying rhetoric. And, finally, there are those —like an old Druze friend of mine — who go to it to learn more about Plato’s idea of metempsychosis.
I was a curious (bored) student once, so I’ve naturally read Phaedrus multiple times for the above reasons. But today, as I find myself suffering from a mild hangover, I’m reading Phaedrus for entirely different reasons.
My Notes:
https://boredabsurdist.com/2024/01/03...
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