What do you think?
Rate this book
Flying saucers, the process of matter and energy, science, the revolutionary and working-class struggle and the socialist future of mankind
J. Posadas: Les soucoupes volantes, le processus de la matière et de l’énergie, la science, la lutte de classes et revolutionnaire et le future socialiste de l’humanité, Paris: Éditions Réed, 1968.
Originally published in 1968 as a pamphlet in French.
Translated and transcribed by David Broder.
Marked up by Einde O’ Callaghan for the Encyclopaedia of Trotskyism On-Line (ETOL).
Originally published in 1968 as a pamphlet in French.
Translated and transcribed by David Broder.
Marked up by Einde O’ Callaghan for the Encyclopaedia of Trotskyism On-Line (ETOL).
9 pages, ebook
First published January 1, 1968
1 person is currently reading
156 people want to read
About the author
J. Posadas
19 books18 followersArgentine Trotskyist whose personal vision is usually described as Posadism.
During the 1952 trotskyist split Posadas and his followers sided with Michel Pablo. In 1962 he split from the Pabloïsts because of differences of view about nuclear war.
Beginning in 1968, Posadas also became known for his theories concerning UFOs. If anything like UFOs existed, they could demonstrate the existence of agents able to master a very sophisticated technology, something that would be compatible with what in this planet was advocated by socialism.
During the 1952 trotskyist split Posadas and his followers sided with Michel Pablo. In 1962 he split from the Pabloïsts because of differences of view about nuclear war.
Beginning in 1968, Posadas also became known for his theories concerning UFOs. If anything like UFOs existed, they could demonstrate the existence of agents able to master a very sophisticated technology, something that would be compatible with what in this planet was advocated by socialism.
Ratings & Reviews
Friends & Following
Create a free account to discover what your friends think of this book!
Community Reviews
Displaying 1 - 20 of 20 reviews
Read
May 10, 2019Among the gems retrieved from the dungheap of history by internet meme culture and the persistent search for the ever-more obscure dwell the bizarre ideas of this Argentine Trotskyist, probably best known for his idea that a communist society might be brought about by close encounters (already underway in his time) between the human species and honest to goodness, flying-saucer-flying space aliens. Or nukes, but that's a story for another day.
If we are going to be generous to this comrade (and we are nothing if we are not generous), Posadas' major theoretical contribution in fact lies buried somewhat beneath the scenarios of communism-by-flying-saucer or -by-nuclear-holocaust. Beneath the seeming ridiculosity is the mirror of ridiculosity. Think about it this way. What does one imply when one says that the aliens will bring about total communism? That Marxist science is no different from religious faith. That the supposedly inevitable and historically determined revolution (forecast, let's not forget, to happen during Marx's lifetime!) is no different from the foaming-at-the-mouth Christians' apocalypse and Second Coming of Christ. That this revolution you believe in might as well be the outcome of alien visitation or nuclear war, for all its miniscule likelihood. That what you seek is precisely the least possible, and you'd better start facing up to it.
It's a strange twist in the communist labyrinth, right next door to Nihilist Communism. Rather than leading back to the beginning (where one waits for the working classes), it leads to one of the very few exits (after all, waiting for the aliens, ie giving the fuck up and going out star-gazing, may be a way of life a damn sight better than eking out another lap around the marxist maze).
Now to be fair, Posadas does not come out and say this, but this does not prevent it from being the most useful takeaway for living your best life. And keep this one handy if you are unfortunate enough to be at a cocktail party with a marxist who wants to talk about the inevitability of the proletarian revolution. Tell them you're a Posadist. If you are very good at holding a straight face, it also happens to be the fastest way out of that labyrinth.
If you were thinking about reading the piece itself, better not. You can receive this particular signal better through the memes.
If we are going to be generous to this comrade (and we are nothing if we are not generous), Posadas' major theoretical contribution in fact lies buried somewhat beneath the scenarios of communism-by-flying-saucer or -by-nuclear-holocaust. Beneath the seeming ridiculosity is the mirror of ridiculosity. Think about it this way. What does one imply when one says that the aliens will bring about total communism? That Marxist science is no different from religious faith. That the supposedly inevitable and historically determined revolution (forecast, let's not forget, to happen during Marx's lifetime!) is no different from the foaming-at-the-mouth Christians' apocalypse and Second Coming of Christ. That this revolution you believe in might as well be the outcome of alien visitation or nuclear war, for all its miniscule likelihood. That what you seek is precisely the least possible, and you'd better start facing up to it.
It's a strange twist in the communist labyrinth, right next door to Nihilist Communism. Rather than leading back to the beginning (where one waits for the working classes), it leads to one of the very few exits (after all, waiting for the aliens, ie giving the fuck up and going out star-gazing, may be a way of life a damn sight better than eking out another lap around the marxist maze).
Now to be fair, Posadas does not come out and say this, but this does not prevent it from being the most useful takeaway for living your best life. And keep this one handy if you are unfortunate enough to be at a cocktail party with a marxist who wants to talk about the inevitability of the proletarian revolution. Tell them you're a Posadist. If you are very good at holding a straight face, it also happens to be the fastest way out of that labyrinth.
If you were thinking about reading the piece itself, better not. You can receive this particular signal better through the memes.
August 27, 2018
The existence of flying saucers and living beings on other planets is a phenomena that the dialectical conception of history can admit. The most immediate consequence we can draw is that, if these beings do exist, they must have a societal organisation superior to our own. Their appearances are not the effect of bellicose or aggressive sentiments. ... They have no aggressive impulse, they have no need to kill in order to live: they come only to observe. We can foresee the existence of such beings, even taking into account the fantasies that exist among the reports, stories, observations and statements. If they exist, we must call on them to intervene, to help us resolve the problems we have on Earth. The essential task is to suppress poverty, hunger, unemployment and war, to give everyone the means to live in dignity and to lay the bases for human fraternity. To this end, we must suppress the capitalist system, as well as the bureaucracy of the workers’ states and Communist Parties who do not want to seize power. The fundamental obstacle we face is the capitalist system. We must suppress the force currently in the hands of the capitalist system: nuclear weapons. Destroy all nuclear weapons. Destroy the whole military power of the capitalist system, of Yankee, French and British
imperialism. Appeal to the masses and give them the means immediately to destroy capitalism, overcome the bureaucracy of the workers’ states andestablish a new society: socialism.
...
Progress will be common amongst everyone: audacity facing up to nature. This question is important for a training in and knowledge of Marxism. Marxist knowledge is unlimited. It does not stop at the question of social, economic and political struggles. Understanding existence gives the assurance necessary for envisaging the solution of all problems. There is no problem beyond the remit of humanity. All the problems of humanity influence one another. The more we master knowledge of history, humanity, society and matter, the more confidence we can have in addressing problems with resolution and audacity.
Yeah, it sounds ridiculous, marxism and aliens. But as Mark Fisher writes in Capitalist Realism, it's increasingly hard to imagine life outside of the capitalist system. And as Posadas says here, "Neither the capitalist system nor the bureaucracy [in the workers’ states] have an interest in researching this subject, because they cannot draw any commercial, political or military benefit from it. Socialism, on the contrary, does have an interest in this, and so too do the masses." So if you truly do believe that a better world is possible, it may be necessary to envision one that's ridiculous. And embrace it anyway.
Long live Posadas!
imperialism. Appeal to the masses and give them the means immediately to destroy capitalism, overcome the bureaucracy of the workers’ states andestablish a new society: socialism.
...
Progress will be common amongst everyone: audacity facing up to nature. This question is important for a training in and knowledge of Marxism. Marxist knowledge is unlimited. It does not stop at the question of social, economic and political struggles. Understanding existence gives the assurance necessary for envisaging the solution of all problems. There is no problem beyond the remit of humanity. All the problems of humanity influence one another. The more we master knowledge of history, humanity, society and matter, the more confidence we can have in addressing problems with resolution and audacity.
Yeah, it sounds ridiculous, marxism and aliens. But as Mark Fisher writes in Capitalist Realism, it's increasingly hard to imagine life outside of the capitalist system. And as Posadas says here, "Neither the capitalist system nor the bureaucracy [in the workers’ states] have an interest in researching this subject, because they cannot draw any commercial, political or military benefit from it. Socialism, on the contrary, does have an interest in this, and so too do the masses." So if you truly do believe that a better world is possible, it may be necessary to envision one that's ridiculous. And embrace it anyway.
Long live Posadas!
July 17, 2020
Probably not worth your time.
-Especially if you want anything theoretically valuable: be it politically, scientifically or philosophically.
The tone is the best aspect of this essay, and even then this is somewhat tainted by the cloying declarations of the existence of extra-terrestrial life (naturally all super-communists), whilst at the same time proclaiming not to be the claims of a "fanatic".
Futurology is always mildly entertaining at least, and if you can overlook quack science & half-truths foisted on a skeleton of surface-level ufology, this text might be worth a read.
Frequent mention of elephants was surprising.
Edit: In hindsight I cannot stress how much I regret having spent a decent portion of time on this
-Especially if you want anything theoretically valuable: be it politically, scientifically or philosophically.
The tone is the best aspect of this essay, and even then this is somewhat tainted by the cloying declarations of the existence of extra-terrestrial life (naturally all super-communists), whilst at the same time proclaiming not to be the claims of a "fanatic".
Futurology is always mildly entertaining at least, and if you can overlook quack science & half-truths foisted on a skeleton of surface-level ufology, this text might be worth a read.
Frequent mention of elephants was surprising.
Edit: In hindsight I cannot stress how much I regret having spent a decent portion of time on this
May 13, 2020
Because radical politics (on any side of the spectrum) exists on the fringe, you are naturally going to wind up with people with particularly strange ideas, who due to the sheer political weakness and need for numbers in fringe groups, find an artificially high degree of comradery and acceptance.
This pamphlet is an extreme example of the writings of such people; starting with a standard marxist critique of science under capitalism and soviet socialism sprinkled sparingly with bits of futuristic woo about energy which quickly spirals into talk of elephants living for over 200 years and the need of extra terrestrials to intervene and bring about true communism.
What also makes this a bit special is that unlike other radical oddballs he actually managed to garner an international following - and not just a group of people exchanging letters/forum posts but actual political parties.
I can only wonder what the response would have been to people who got handed this pamphlet.
This pamphlet is an extreme example of the writings of such people; starting with a standard marxist critique of science under capitalism and soviet socialism sprinkled sparingly with bits of futuristic woo about energy which quickly spirals into talk of elephants living for over 200 years and the need of extra terrestrials to intervene and bring about true communism.
What also makes this a bit special is that unlike other radical oddballs he actually managed to garner an international following - and not just a group of people exchanging letters/forum posts but actual political parties.
I can only wonder what the response would have been to people who got handed this pamphlet.
February 21, 2018
This is written by a Trotskyist who claimed that Castro killed Guevara when in reality Guevara was fighting in Bolivia, then when Guevara was killed by Bolivian authorities, Posadas claimed he didn’t know what exactly happened to Che. In this work, Posadas claims that Nuclear War is inevitable, and that when it happens, it will lead the way to socialism, as capitalism will be abolished. He also claims that when aliens invade Earth, the working class should work with them, as the aliens are our liberators, and come from a planet that is most likely a communist society. I’m not even exaggerating. It’s kind of impossible to critique Posadaism without sounding like you’re committing the sin of ad hominem. As I write this, I am at my friend’s birthday party, exhausted, reading shit on marxists.org
March 7, 2021
"uhhhhh matter COULD do this, if aliens existed they MAY do this" man shut up
June 29, 2017
full article can be read free here: https://www.marxists.org/archive/posa...
This is as crazy as it sounds. Basically, the author believed aliens had visited earth. He further projected onto that alien species, saying that they were a Communist society that would absorb mankind if only mankind initiated contact with them.
This is as crazy as it sounds. Basically, the author believed aliens had visited earth. He further projected onto that alien species, saying that they were a Communist society that would absorb mankind if only mankind initiated contact with them.
August 7, 2022
1/3 batshit insane 1/3 waffle 1/3 rly interesting ideas, his fundamental belief that capitalism is holding back progress and that without it “people will have a scientific capacity superior to Marx” is p profound imo imo.. worth a read if just for him talking abt commie aliens tbh it’ll only take you an hour
January 3, 2021
Very entertaining and just as I expected, completely batshit.
July 19, 2022
i wouldn’t usually log something so short but this was complete insanity. I am taking it as a metaphor
Read
August 29, 2020"Capitalism has no interest in UFOs and, as such, makes no research into them. It has no
interest in occupying itself with these matters because they cannot reap
profits, nor are they useful to capitalism. But people see in UFOs the
possibility of advancement and progress. This thus accelerates the fall of
the bourgeoisie, shown in all its uselessness."
Seguir na luta sempre aplicando a linha correta do marxismo-leninismo-posadismo !!!!
interest in occupying itself with these matters because they cannot reap
profits, nor are they useful to capitalism. But people see in UFOs the
possibility of advancement and progress. This thus accelerates the fall of
the bourgeoisie, shown in all its uselessness."
Seguir na luta sempre aplicando a linha correta do marxismo-leninismo-posadismo !!!!
Read
April 25, 2021God, what a fever dream of an essay. It would feel wrong to give this any rating at all, since it's both awful and extremely entertaining at the same time. I sure hope those socialist aliens come visit us sometime.
April 30, 2021
A compelling piece of sci-fi spiritualism. Hope for a better future represented through the perfect utopian alien society with their alternate modes of energy transference/harvesting. Posadas' description of the idea of the UFO as hostile to capitalist interests is entirely correct even if you do not believe in the literal truth of UFOs. The people in power obviously do not want us considering alternate modes of organisation. The idea of anti-capitalism liberating science is also pretty interesting. While I am not as technocratic or optimistic as Posadas, this is still an amazing piece of theory (especially for a text so short).
December 29, 2023
Ohhhhhhhh boy...
"They have no aggressive impulse, they have no need to kill in order to live: they come only to observe. We can foresee the existence of such beings, even taking into account the fantasies that exist among the reports, stories, observations and statements. If they exist, we must call on them to intervene, to help us resolve the problems we have on Earth."
This article, or pamphlet, or whatever it is, and the genuine weirdness within, just made my day.
Posadas comes to the conclusion that if flying saucers (I'm not paraphrasing this) exist, then it proves that some other species from some other planet has achieved socialism or at least is not capitalist. And this is stated alongside a buffet of pseudoscientific nonsense about energy and organic material that he pretty much just shat out for his own admiration.
I never tire of the comparison between Christianity and Marxism. Christianity has its Second Coming of Christ, Marxism has its inevitable Revolution. If Christians have been patient enough to wait 2000 years for that Second Coming, Marxists will wait at least as long for their Revolution. While visitation by extraterrestrials is definitely unlikely, considering the size of the universe and Earth's general insignificance to it, one might as well start making plans for the most unlikely scenarios, including this one. Posadas certainly did.
This is an interesting read for its weirdness alone. You can find a translated text for free here:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/posa...
"They have no aggressive impulse, they have no need to kill in order to live: they come only to observe. We can foresee the existence of such beings, even taking into account the fantasies that exist among the reports, stories, observations and statements. If they exist, we must call on them to intervene, to help us resolve the problems we have on Earth."
This article, or pamphlet, or whatever it is, and the genuine weirdness within, just made my day.
Posadas comes to the conclusion that if flying saucers (I'm not paraphrasing this) exist, then it proves that some other species from some other planet has achieved socialism or at least is not capitalist. And this is stated alongside a buffet of pseudoscientific nonsense about energy and organic material that he pretty much just shat out for his own admiration.
I never tire of the comparison between Christianity and Marxism. Christianity has its Second Coming of Christ, Marxism has its inevitable Revolution. If Christians have been patient enough to wait 2000 years for that Second Coming, Marxists will wait at least as long for their Revolution. While visitation by extraterrestrials is definitely unlikely, considering the size of the universe and Earth's general insignificance to it, one might as well start making plans for the most unlikely scenarios, including this one. Posadas certainly did.
This is an interesting read for its weirdness alone. You can find a translated text for free here:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/posa...
November 9, 2025
If Posadas weren't a Trotskyist I'd just set this aside as the rants of a deranged political theorist. I think he makes one too many assumptions about "extraterrestrial sociology", assuming that they even share our definition of "friendly". I will, however, give this my most unconventional rating of all time, 3 stars. I have grown sick and tired of a rigid and doctrinal left. Everyone is as pretentious as can be ("What do you mean you aren't a 'Cognitive Eco-Intersectional Anti-Reductionist'? Are you some sort of revisionist bourgeois?"). Posadas was brave enough to propose such a radical theory to some of the most stuck-up intellectuals you'll ever met, and as someone who tends to deeply reinterpret Marx I will hold him to a high regard. Go ahead, call me a fool for respecting something this illogical, I will still think Posadism deserves a platform.
April 11, 2021
tl;dr: Capitalist society is the main culprit of evil and must be destroyed; it's holding back our progress. We must have a socialist revolution and appeal to aliens for help, because alien society is the socialist ideal. Marxist theory and dialectical method will be the main tools for this. We are in such a stupid state currently, the aliens are literally laughing at us.
December 16, 2022
Pretty utopian, and kinda pseudo-scientific, but a lot less bonkers than I was expecting. It particularly brings up some interesting points on the nature of science and some human limitations. Kinda disappointed there wasn’t more about the inevitable nuclear apocalypse, though.
March 2, 2024
True
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
August 4, 2024
socialist propaganda, elaborate political shitpost
February 24, 2021
Self- explanatory. South American Trotskyists believe in communist aliens. (Cue X-Files theme)
Displaying 1 - 20 of 20 reviews