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A Perilous Path: Talking Race, Inequality, and the Law

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This blisteringly candid discussion of the American dilemma in the age of Trump brings together the head of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, the former attorney general of the United States, a bestselling author and death penalty lawyer, and a star professor for an honest conversation the country desperately needs to hear. Drawing on their collective decades of work on civil rights issues as well as personal histories of rising from poverty and oppression, these leading lights of the legal profession and the fight for racial justice talk about the importance of reclaiming the racial narrative and keeping our eyes on the horizon as we work for justice in an unjust time.





Covering topics as varied as "the commonality of pain," "when lawyers are heroes," and the concept of an "equality dividend" that is due to people of color for helping America brand itself internationally as a country of diversity and acceptance, Ifill, Lynch, Stevenson, and Thompson also explore topics such as "when did 'public' become a dirty word" (hint, it has something to do with serving people of color), "you know what Jeff Sessions is going to say," and "what it means to be a civil rights lawyer in the age of Trump."





Building on Stevenson's hugely successful Just Mercy, Lynch's national platform at the Justice Department, Ifill's role as one of the leading defenders of civil rights in the country, and the occasion of Thompson's launch of a new center of on race, inequality and the law at the NYU School of Law, A Perilous Path will speak loudly and clearly to everyone concerned about America's perpetual fault line.

128 pages, Hardcover

First published March 6, 2018

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Sherrilyn A. Ifill

5 books26 followers

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Profile Image for Diane S ☔.
4,901 reviews14.6k followers
November 11, 2018
3.5 I first became aware of Bryan Stevenson when I read his book, Just Mercy. That also happened to be the first non fiction audio I ever listened to, and he narrated it himself. I ran across him again when I read, The sun does shine, where after a sixteen years fight by his Equal Justice Initiative he proves a man on death row innocent. He works, I'm convinced, with the angels. A man I greatly admire.

Here, along with three other activists, they talk about things they feel once again threatened in the new administration. An administration that seems to want to set the clock back by fifty years. It is well presented, impactful and insightful. Though much of it is about the black race, they are not the only ones presently in jeopardy and they are mentioned as well. Poor white, gays, transgenders, and of course those with brown skin. They talk about how hard it has been, and how long it took to get what ever gains they have made. Those who have come before, fighting for these rights, such as Malcolm and MLK. Another small book that says much. I found this paragraph, quote quite thought provoking.

" When I go through the Holocaust Museum, I walk through it and I'm shaken. And what I say is, "never again." We need to create places in this country where you come and have an experience with the history of the slavery and lynching and segregation, and when you come out you say, "never again." And if we get enough people in this country to say, "never again" to this history of racism and bigotry, we won't be facing some of the problems were facing right now."

I do want to say that I think some of what is said inside, could be debated, especially by those who live in the inner cities, inserting a different viewpoint. Although gangs were touched on, it was more in the line of catching children early and having the services available to offer those that feel they have no other option. Which I do believe is necessary, but living in Chicago for almost thirty years, the havoc they wreak and the fear they cause are very real. Things need to change in these communities before all people will feel safe and willing to see things differently. This is just my opinion.
Profile Image for Lauren.
1,447 reviews82 followers
October 16, 2019
For all I’m in agreement with these four legal giants, I found this book disappointing. A better title: “Singing to the Choir: Four People with Identical Beliefs Talk to the Converted about Race, Inequality, and the Law.”

To be fair, the problems I had with this book, which is a transcription of an event at NYU, are not unique to these four people but to the American Left in general. To summarize: the American Right is incompetent, criminal, and horrible. The American Left, in contrast, looks good, and because the Left is better than the Right, they do not need to consider their own shortcomings. (And to be clear: I say this as a member of the American Left.)

The Trump Administration is a reprehensible stain on American democracy. There’s an odd subtext within A Perilous Path, however, that everything was hunky-dory until January 2017.

Um, no?

I miss Obama, but his administration made some mistakes. They were too soft on Wall Street, with the indirect result of furthering income inequality and punishing innocent bystanders while letting those responsible for the crash get off relatively free. Millions of Americans have yet to recover from the 2008 crash, and it’s not the guys on Wall Street still trying to pick up the pieces.

On a related note, almost nothing was done to reform student loans, resulting in many of the same families who were hit hardest by the crash assuming additional debt in the hopes of potentially improved job prospects. (Also, how did not one of these four individuals mention student loans and how it’s exacerbating income inequality, especially for minorities?)

Voting restrictions and rollback of voting rights pre-dated the Obama Administration, got worse with the Supreme Court’s disastrous gutting of the Voting Rights Act, and yet the Obama Administration took a tepid approach that seemed to border on “well, wait until Democrats control the Presidency and the Congress, then we’ll act.”

Really? And how’d that work out for the Dems in 2016?

I get furious just thinking about how both political parties have taken such a hands-off approach to tens of thousands of Americans being essentially disenfranchised. So to have Loretta Lynch be all “well, now that he’s out of government, Eric Holder’s very concerned about voting access” – no. Why wasn’t he doing more when he was in office? And I say this not because he is a black man but because anyone who believes in American democracy should be outraged by restricting voting for thousands of Americans in the name of preventing theoretical fraud by a few.

Here’s what would have been more thought provoking (and more in the line of what I expect from both a school like NYU and the caliber of speakers): A talk about the faults of the American Left. The Trump Administration is low-hanging fruit. More than that, people who don’t already agree are unlikely to pick up this book or attend this sort of talk. So if you’re preaching to the choir: don’t go for a bunch of talking points that are going to get a chorus of ‘Amens.’ Make people uncomfortable.

During this talk, there was a section with a call for re-examining of American history and taking responsibility for the atrocities that happened over the country’s history. Great, but let’s start more recently: Here are four very accomplished, very powerful attorneys, including a just-former attorney general. You want other people to re-examine their own parts in America’s problems? Fine, but as four extremely privileged Americans, take the baton: What would you have done differently? What should Obama, Clinton, even Bush have done differently?

Or instead of that, they can point to someone else’s faults and repeat the same canned sentiments that are sure to rouse their audience to applause. Not recommended.
Profile Image for Lauren D'Souza.
696 reviews51 followers
June 12, 2020
This book - a conversation between four of the most prominent minds in criminal justice working today - affected me profoundly in ways that are difficult to describe. This discussion, led by NYU Law Professor Anthony Thompson and including former AG Loretta Lynch, NAACP Legal Defense Fund President Sherrilyn Ifill, and Equal Justice Initiative founder Bryan Stevenson, spans the issues of race, class, slavery, lynching, education, housing, and more in roughly 100 pages.

Other reviewers have said that all of these folks are speaking in an echo chamber, but they must have missed the point of this. Of course they're an echo chamber - they're four Black civil rights practitioners who have witnessed the same systemic inequality and racism across the United States and have gathered the same takeaways from their personal and professional experiences. Hearing from these similar but unique perspectives cements the fact that there are clear solutions and actionable items to address these pervasive issues.

As always, the perspectives that made me most emotional were Bryan Stevenson's. His words are incredibly powerful - he's one of those people who is infinitely quotable and wise. I know that I will come back to his reflections over and over, particularly his response to Thompson's last question on how to remain hopeful. This book is worth it for that story alone.

A Perilous Path was available from my local library for free on Hoopla and I read it in the span of a few hours, and I cannot recommend it enough - if anything, to energize and galvanize you.
Profile Image for Krystal.
254 reviews13 followers
March 15, 2018
This book is a political narrative about inequality, injustice and the duty of the American Public to change that.

I rated this book ⭐⭐⭐⭐/ 5 stars for the following reasons:

My Thoughts on this book:
This book starts off extremely politically-minded about race and Trump's reaction to it. It mentions hyper-segregation which makes sense in current times. It talks about police using a narrative of fear and misdirection, to justify brutality. The book makes a great point about going backward in time to before the civil rights movement and actively being trampled on in regards to race and voting rights. It talks about how the government has become disenfranchised with the people who don't have a voice and are vulnerable. It points out that how laws are managed are dependent upon whose hands they're in. It talks about how having effective narratives between the different levels of government on racial inequality and injustice are so important. It makes the very valid point that failure to own up to a different race's humanity allows people to think they haven't done anything immoral. I like that a non-fiction book is being used as a platform to say that important narratives and conversations still need to happen in regards to the racism and racial inequality that is still happening 50+ years after the civil rights movement. That just because we won the war doesn't me we won the narratives of the war. I like how it talks about how schools need to start being judged on how many expulsions and suspensions they have and not test scores, as well as opening conversations on how to help these kids and their communities. How to help them heal from trauma from a world that discriminates against them because of the color of their skin and not how smart they are or what they've accomplished. It brings a good point to the table about systematic slavery in regards to drug addiction and mass incarcerations. The book touches on inequality in public transportation, housing/infrastructure, and environmental injustice. It also talks about unfair tax foreclosures that basically penalize you for being poor. It talks about how taking things away from privatization and putting them back in the public scope is how you keep a strong middle-class society, which makes complete sense to me as a Canadian. The point in the book where it says "The word public only became dirty when it became associated with being black," was extremely hard-hitting to my gut because it is 100% true and that is both extremely sad and very scary. I like how they mention that with civil rights issues no matter what color our skin is we should be standing up and saying we are all a part of this, this affects us all because standing after the law has already passed holds no meaning. The difference between America and other countries is that they don't talk about what a truly horrific history they have whereas places like Germany and Rwanda want you to see the devastation that their apathy has cost them. We have to understand where we are in the struggle and what side we're really on. "Injustice prevails where hopelessness persists."- Thurgood Marshall. We have a duty to help the public understand what these battles mean for the lives of the people they affect and the people which they are fought for.

Would I recommend this book:
I believe this truly is a narrative that people need to start having. That EVERY PERSON ON THE FACE OF THIS EARTH INCLUDING ALL AMERICANS need to start having. We need to keep this narrative going until it comes a point in this world where the narrative has won and the war was won for the right side, for the side of equal rights for everyone and the side of justice for all. I believe until we start talking about it then nothing will ever change. So yes I believe this book needs to be read, yes I recommend this book to others. Let's never let apartheid, racial inequality, lynchings or any crime against those more vulnerable happen ever again. Let's acknowledge our parts in the bigger picture and let's acknowledge our past. Let's stop hiding behind it and pretending it never happened because that's how this vicious cycle of racial discrepancy keeps happening.

***** I was given a copy of this book by Netgalley and the publisher in exchange for my honest review, and thus have given such. Netgalley, nor the publisher have swayed my opinion in any way. Thank you to Netgalley for the opportunity to read and review this book*****
Profile Image for E Vikander.
125 reviews4 followers
January 13, 2018
“This conversation proved to be so much more than a lament over our current state of affairs; rather, in it we have seen the beginnings of a blueprint for a new progressive direction in America.” The astounding thing about this book, is how spot-on Ifill, Lynch, Stevenson, and Thompson were about Donald Trump considering their discussion took place only one month into his presidency. Their prescience speaks to the depth of their knowledge and experience. A clear-eyed discussion of race and equality, I found it both inspiring and at times harrowing with comments like “... how the law is managed depends very much on whose hands it is in.” I’ve highlighted more text in this short book than in many a longer tome. There is much in this book to think about.
Profile Image for Niklas Pivic.
Author 3 books71 followers
January 10, 2018
This is a book that consists of a discussion between four persons: Sherrilyn Ifill the president of the NAACP Legal Defense & Educational Fund (LDF), Loretta Lynch, the eighty-third attorney general of the United States, Bryan Stevenson, the executive director of the Equal Justice Initiative, and Anthony C. Thompson, a professor of clinical law and the faculty director of the Center on Race, Inequality, and the Law at New York University School of Law.

It's a quite varied and senseful debate, if one can call it as such, where those persons speak of inequality, indifference, inherent racism, and the consequences of capitalism, almost entirely in regards to the USA. If one has read Naomi Klein, Noam Chomsky, Jill Leovy, and similar thinkers, this will not be entirely new information that will blow your mind.

However, it is quite a necessary book that brings much-needed stuff and information to the surface. For example, from Stevenson:

Bryan Stevenson: I think if you don’t hold people accountable for the narrative assaults that they make, then you’re never going to prevail. Because the South never voted for the Voting Rights Act, or the Civil Rights Act. They regrouped, started organizing in precisely the way you are describing, and then, forty-eight years later, they won a Supreme Court case, Shelby County, because their narrative persuaded the United States Supreme Court that we don’t need the Voting Rights Act anymore (at a time when we still saw the same suppression efforts). So I agree.

I look at domestic violence. When we were young, there was a show on TV called The Honeymooners. And the punchline was Jackie Gleason saying to his wife, “To the moon, Alice,” which was a threat of violence. And everybody laughed. We didn’t take domestic violence seriously. When women called the police to their homes after being assaulted, the cops would tell. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 is a piece of federal legislation that outlawed discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, and national origin in nearly every sphere of American life, including voting, public accommodations, public education, public facilities, and employment. jokes to the guy to get him calm. As long as he was calm, they wouldn’t make arrests. And then we began to work on the narrative. We actually allowed women who are survivors of that violence to have a voice. They made the movie The Burning Bed. And we started talking about the pain and the injury and the suffering. Before you knew it, we started to think differently about that. And today, even these elite, professional athletes are risking something—not nearly enough, we still have a long way to go—when they engage in these acts of violence.

I think we’ve seen the same thing on climate change. But we haven’t made that kind of effort on race in my view, to direct things at the communities that need a narrative shift. And I think until we do that, we’re not going to make progress.


What all of the participants speak of is mainly the need for change via grassroots movements; naturally, the corporations (which are effectively in power in a plutocratic oligarchy, which the USA is in 2018) will not do this for us:

Loretta Lynch: We have to focus on growing the next group of people who are going to join the political discourse, and in fact wield that power at a local level. I think it’s important, because we were blessed for eight years. We had a wonderful president. He will go down in history as one of our greatest presidents. I was tremendously proud to work for him. But politics is about more than who the president is. Law enforcement is about more than who the Attorney General is. It’s so much more than that. What we were trying to do is to travel across the country and empower local voices, to highlight people who are dealing with these issues in communities at the grassroots level. And we were trying to lift their voices up, amplify them, and share them with the nation. Those voices are still out there.


This is a little book which exudes eloquence and honesty. Another example:

Bryan Stevenson: Well, it’s sort of funny. We’re doing this cultural work, and for me it’s been very energizing, because I went to South Africa, and what I experienced there was that people insisted on making sure I understood the damage that was done by apartheid. When I talked to Rwandans, you can’t spend time in Rwanda without them telling you about all of the damage done by the genocide. I go to Berlin, and you can’t go a hundred meters without seeing those markers and monuments that have been placed near the homes of Jewish families that were abducted during the Holocaust. The Germans want you to go to the Berlin Holocaust Memorial. And then I come to this country, and we don’t talk about slavery. We don’t talk about lynching. We don’t talk about segregation. And so, our project is really trying to create a new landscape. I never thought during my law practice that I’d be spending so much time working on a museum, but our museum is called “From Enslavement to Mass Incarceration.” We have to get people to understand the damage that was done to this country with this legacy.

We kidnapped 12 million Africans. Kidnapped them. Brought them across the ocean in this torturous journey. Killed millions of them. Held them in captivity for centuries. And we haven’t acted as though we did anything wrong. We must increase a consciousness of wrongdoing: lynching over four thousand people, taking black people out of their homes, burning them alive, hanging them from trees, brutalizing them, causing one of the largest mass migrations in the history of the world, when 6 million black people fled the American South for the North and West as refugees and exiles from terror. And then segregation: saying to black children every day, “You can’t go to school because you’re black. You can’t vote because you’re black.” And we haven’t really developed any shame about this history. So what I want to do is, I want to increase the shame index of America. Because we do a lot of things great—we do sports, we do all that stuff. But we don’t do mistake very well. We don’t apologize very well.

And if you don’t learn to be shameful about shameful misbehavior, you’ll keep doing that behavior over and over again. I think if you say, “I’m sorry,” it doesn’t make you weak, it makes you strong. You show me two people who’ve been in love for fifty years, and I’ll show you two people who’ve learned how to apologize to one another when they get into trouble. I think we have to create that cultural moment where apologizing becomes okay. And part of the reason why we don’t want to talk about this history, is we’ve become such a punitive society. Most people think, well, if we talk about slavery, lynching, segregation, someone is going to have to get punished. And I just want to say to people, “I don’t have any interest in punishing America for its past.” I represent people who have done really terrible things. I’m not interested in prioritizing punishment. I want to liberate us. I want to get to the point where we can say, “That was bad and that was wrong and we need to get to someplace that’s better!” I want to deal with this smog created by our history of racial inequality, so we can all breathe something healthy, feel something healthy.


All in all, this is a great book to read for injecting some much-needed voices that are not likely to be aired over mainstream media.
Profile Image for Dorothy Young.
64 reviews3 followers
May 14, 2018
This is an inspirational and courageous conversations between our great modern civil rights leaders. As a young person and lawyer who has struggled against falling victim to hopelessness over the last year and a half, I found this book incredibly encouraging to read. The message of hope and hard work, of remembering and reconnecting legal and political work to history and communities directly affected by the issues, comes across easily and accessible to anyone who cares about the direction the United States takes and believes that arc can continue to favor justice and equity.
11 reviews1 follower
May 24, 2018
*Goodreads giveaway*

A short, thought provoking discussion placed into book form. Given the politics of the day in the United States, it is a much needed discussion. Although the book discusses the forward steps taken, there is always the specter of what the results of the 2016 election will lead to for the future of the county. However, overall I found the book to be inspiring. Smart, accomplished men and women discussing how we move forward to make a difference in the lives of everyone facing inequality in the United States, no matter skin color.
Profile Image for Sara-Jayne Poletti.
91 reviews41 followers
April 2, 2018
A fascinating and candid discussion between four of America’s leading advocates for racial justice. Very insightful, very provocative. Lots of talk on what it means to construct a narrative, and how that can help or damage a cause. A bit like reading a play, but it’s all real life. Definitely recommended.
Profile Image for Lys.
842 reviews
September 2, 2020
Quick and engaging, and gives you a lot to think about. One of my favorite quotes in this from Bryan Stevenson is, "Hopelessness is the enemy of justice. When you are fighting for justice you are fighting against hopelessness. Injustice prevails where hopelessness persists. So you have to see hopelessness as a kind of toxin that will kill your ability to make a difference. And the truth is, you’re either hopeful working toward justice, or you’re the problem. There’s nothing in between. You can’t be neutral. No, you’re part of the problem."
Profile Image for Laura.
38 reviews
November 25, 2018
Very interesting and thoughtful discussion of injustice in America. This discussion makes me think and want to delve into these issues through reading and community involvement.
Profile Image for Jade.
386 reviews24 followers
February 10, 2018
Based on a roundtable conversation held in early 2017 by Sherrilyn Ifill (president of the NAACP Legal Defense & Educational Fund (LDF)), Loretta Lynch (former Attorney General of the US), Bryan Stevenson (executive director of the Equal Justice Initiative and author of Just Mercy), and Anthony C. Thompson (professor of clinical law and faculty director of the Center on Race, Inequality, and the Law at NYU School of Law), A Perilous Path is a written record of a discussion on race and inequalities in the US and how the 2016 election pushed us to face the fact that we have so much more work to do. The discussion took place in early 2017, not long after Trump was inaugurated as president, just after the first episode of the despicable “Muslim Ban”.
I don’t think I have ever muttered “Oh my gosh THIS” under my breath as much as I did reading this book, or highlighted as much text as I did so that I could go back to it again and again. More than just a discussion on the current state of civil rights, equality, and oppression in the US in the light of a Trump presidency, A Perilous Path is a resounding conversation on what we need to do to make real, lasting change in this country. I took a lot of all of the participants’ comments, experiences, and ideas to heart, with the aim on doing my own part to lay a better foundation for now and the future.
I thought the ongoing theme of “changing the narrative” was a profoundly important one, as it pertains to all areas of social life in this country. We can’t continue with the current narrative of fear and exclusion, and also one of selective memory. We need to have these types of roundtable discussions at a local level, involve kids and teenagers, and MAKE the changes.
Bryan Stevenson: “[…] The people who were holding the signs that said “segregation forever” and “segregation of war,” they were never forced to put down those signs. They didn’t wave them around anymore, but they kept adhering to their value. And now we are living at a time where that thriving narrative of racial difference, that ideology of white preference, has exhibited itself, and now we are dealing with the consequences of that. We won the election in 2008, but we lost the narrative battle. We actually allowed that president to be demonized and victimized and marginalized because he’s black - not because of anything he said or did. And our comfort with that kind of demonization is, I think, at the heart of the challenge we face.”
The conversation is highlighted by a personal and historical background with the civil rights movement, poverty, segregation, and the laws that govern us all, and lays out how systemic racism will not change without real involvement and initiative from all areas, grassroots to the top. Topics such as affordable housing and discrimination, education discrimination, marginalization of immigrants, and policing are also evoked, as well as how important it is to understand how we can use the law to help change the narrative.
A Perilous Path is an extremely important read, very eye-opening, and also very inspiring. I finished reading this the outline of a personal plan of what I can do to change the narrative. I hope you will too.

Thanks to the publisher and Netgalley for an advance copy of this book.
Profile Image for Darcia Helle.
Author 30 books733 followers
June 20, 2018
This short book features four of the most brilliant minds on the front lines of our nation's battle for equality and justice. Contrary to popular sentiment, justice is absolutely not blind, but sees and is heavily influenced by skin color and bank accounts. Within these pages, we take a hard look at the lingering effects of racism on our justice system, how various leaderships alter the dynamics of law and justice, and also what needs to be done moving forward.

Because this is a transcript of a discussion panel event, there isn't a lot of in-depth detail provided on any one topic. But this is not a light or shallow conversation. The information here is profound and thought-provoking.

*I received a review copy via Amazon Vine.*
Profile Image for Dora Okeyo.
Author 25 books202 followers
February 19, 2018
This, right here is what I call, truth. Truth has power and with that kind of power, it has the ability to create a paradigm shift that's needed today, not just in the American society but in every society.
My motive for reading this book is very selfish and personal. I admire Loretta Lynch and have read as much as I can about her and especially when the whole Policing Reform was being initiated in New York, and when I saw that she was part of the conversation that is this book, I had to read it off NetGalley. I am glad that I get to share my honest views on it after soaking up every word.
Now I want to buy myself a paperback copy because their discussion pointed out the power of a narrative and I am challenged to look into that and explore what impacts it's had in Kenya in terms of shaping our political affiliations.
I'd recommend this book first to Americans because it comes at a time when the rights of others do not seem to come first, and with a president lacking a modicum of control and empathy, and utter disregard of the constitution "government of the people, by the people and for the people" seems like a dream that's got to be actualized.
I'd recommend it second to every reader because we are citizens of nations that have laws, social challenges and issues with the justice system and this book provides insights on slavery in America, Prosecution and Poverty and you get to understand the role "the voice of the person" plays in shaping a narrative.
Profile Image for Alex Furst.
443 reviews4 followers
January 1, 2024
A Perilous Path: Talking Race, Inequality, and the Law by Sherrilyn Ifill, Loretta Lynch, Bryan Stevenson, and Anthony Thompson.
4/5 rating.
Book #4 of 2020. Read January 8, 2020.

This book was an incredible meld of four powerful and influential minds. The dialogue is taken from an NYU discussion as a part of the launch of the Center on Race, Inequality, and the Law.

Let me just say that this short book should be on everyone's reading list this year. The topics it covers stretch across the entirety of America. This is definitely a place where my input would be a travesty as compared to the speakers words, so I will include a few of my favorite quotes and hope that everyone who reads this begins to make the move towards supporting a more Equal and Just America:
"But to me the message of the Civil Rights Movement has always been, 'These are all of our issues. All of us are different. All of us can and have been marginalized at some time.'"
"Most people think, well, if we talk about slavery, lynching, segregation, someone is going to have to get punished. And I just want to say to people, 'I don't have any interest in punishing America for its past.'...I want to liberate us...I want to deal with this smog created by our history of racial inequality, so we can all breathe something healthy, feel something healthy."
"When I go through the Holocaust Museum, I walk through it, and I'm shaken. And what I say is, 'never again.'...And if we get enough people in this country to say 'never again' to this history of racism and bigotry, we won't be facing some of the problems we're facing right now."
"You don't get to be hopeless, and then call yourself someone who's trying to do justice."
"This is hard work. It has always been hard work. But it is the best work that you will ever do - the work of bending your shoulder, and making this world a little bit better, in whatever way comes to you. It is the best thing you'll ever do; it'll make you the best person you will ever be."

Additional Quotes:
"The challenge of today's generation has never been so clear. You've got to draw a line in the sand around inclusion, equity, and justice. We have work to do."
"I'm saying, we have the power, with investments, to make the society we want to make."
"Then I think we have to talk socioculturally. The thing I'm fascinated with right now, is that Alabama's constitution still prohibits black and white kids from going to school today. It is in the state constitution. And the only way you can get it out of the state constitution is to have a statewide referendum, where people vote on whether to remove that segregation language out of the constitution. We have tried twice now to get the language removed. In 2004, 52 percent of the people in the state voted to keep the language in the state constitution. In 2012, after the election of Barack Obama, the number went up to 63 percent."
"And I want to emphasize that last word, because one of the problems we have when we start talking about race is that we don't always want to act strategically. And we don't win when we don't act strategically. It's frustrating to act strategically, because you don't get to say what you want when you want it. You have to say it at the right time and in the right way. And that's painful at times."
"I sit down with twelve- and thirteen-year-old boys who tell me that they don't expect to free or alive by the time they're twenty-five. And they're not saying that based on something they've seen on TV. That's what they're seeing in their world."
"They may be expressed differently, they may come at us in a different way, but the economic issues facing poor people, people of color, people in poverty in Appalachia, in deep pockets of the South - life is as hard for poor whites as it is for poor blacks. And as we don't bring those groups together. We've let the narrative of racial differences supersede that, and separate those discussions."
"I think people think about civil rights as something that over here, these black people are doing. And what I always want people to understand is that that kind of equality principle is actually unifying, and essential to unite us all."
"I think one of the lessons from the Civil Rights Movement is that people who were not African American stood with African Americans - when they were getting beaten at sit-in counters, when they were getting beaten on the march from Selma to Montgomery - those were the people who were really the allies. Standing after the law has passed, when you're at the White House singing something, that's not so meaningful. But when you're there, engaged in struggle, where people are trying to kill you, and people lost their lives - that's the time when you need to actually stand up and say, 'I'm going to be with that group.'"
"My own view is that you change what you can change. And one of the ways that change can happen in this country is by understanding where dollars go, and by controlling the money."
"We're doing this cultural work, and for me it's been very energizing, because when I went to South Africa, and what I experienced there was that people insisted on making sure I understood the damage that was done by apartheid. When I talked to Rwandans, you can't spend time in Rwanda without them telling you about all of the damage done by the genocide. I go to Berlin, and you can't go a hundred meters without seeing those markers and monuments that have been placed near the homes of Jewish families that were abducted during the Holocaust. The Germans want you to go to the Berlin Holocaust Memorial. And then I come to this country, and we don't talk about slavery.
"But we don't do mistakes very well. We don't apologize very well. And if you don't learn to be shameful about shameful misbehavior, you'll keep doing that behavior over and over again. I think if you say, 'I'm sorry,' it doesn't make you weak, it makes you strong."
"I think we have to create that cultural moment where apologizing becomes okay. And part of the reason why we don't want to talk about this history is we've become such a punitive society. Most people think, well, if we talk about slavery, lynching, segregation, someone is going to have to get punished. And I just want to say to people, 'I don't have any interest in punishing America for its past.' I represent people who have done really terrible things. I'm not interested in prioritizing punishment. I want to liberate us. I want to get to the point where we can say, 'That was bad and that was wrong and we need to get to someplace better!' I want to deal with this smog created by our history of racial inequality, so we can all breathe something healthy, feel something healthy."
"When I go through the Holocaust Museum, I walk through it, and I'm shaken. And what I say is, 'never again.' We need to create places in this country where you come and you have an experience with the history of slavery and lynching and segregation, and when you come out you say, 'never again.' And if we get enough people in this country to say 'never again' to this history of racism and bigotry, we won't be facing some of the problems we're facing right now."
"My own view is that we have very, very short memories. And we really need to engage an understanding of the people who came before us, and what they actually had to overcome. And I'm not even just talking about black people. Because really, the world has come apart time and again over hundreds of years."
"Someone, somewhere in your line, had to overcome poverty or war or famine or devastation, or terrible health, or injustice. And I think our disconnection from those stories so so deep that we sometimes think we can't survive what we can survive."
"My head is bloodied but not bowed."
Profile Image for Graham Barrett.
1,290 reviews3 followers
February 1, 2023
"A Perilous Path" is one of those non fiction books you wonder what the shelf life is. I picked up this transcript of a conversation between four leaders in the racial justice groups (Sherrilyn Ifill, Loretta Lynch, Bryan Stevenson, and Anthony Thompson) at the start of the Trump Administration 5 years ago. Yet despite reading this transcript on the other side of that Administration's infamous tenure, the COVID-19 pandemic, the 2020 resurgence of BLM, the current Biden Administration, and the recent death of Tyre Nichols, a lot of the conversation about racial inequality and the American legal system is still relevant and will continue to be so indefinitely.


The four leaders' conversations touch on a wide range of topics related to the pursuit of racial justice in the United States. As such this short book covers a surprising amount of ground. The four speakers also each deliver some banger quotes and insights about the topics. A Perilous Path is one of those books that had it been my own copy I was reading the book would be covered in highlighter ink and folded down page corners to mark these excellent quotes and revisit them at a later time. If I had to pick a favorite passage, it would be Stevenson's musings about how America can do many great things but it is horrible at making its mistakes and then apologizing for them. This is a sad reality in America because even with that recent burst in anti-racist rhetoric and actions, many in the country clamped down on that and refused to acknowledge past mistakes and ways to make amends for how their ancestors treated Black America. If anything, the blowback of anything related to racial justice, designated by opponents with a catch-all euphemism, "critical race theory", makes A Perilous Path just as relevant as it was when this conversation happened and later published as a book.


"A Perilous Path" is a short read and is well worth checking out for compelling insights into racial attitudes and perspectives of the criminal justice system and the conversation the four speakers have will remain relevant for years to come.
Profile Image for Vanessa Fuller.
435 reviews5 followers
October 22, 2018
I'd love to have these same individuals revisit each of their discussion points as we approach the midterms and nearly two years into the Trump administration's reign.

What a brilliant dialogue, and a necessary one. Despite the despair and frustration and outrage many of us feel daily, it's important to hold on to hope. And, that is the message that rings through in the final pages of this short, but eloquent read.

'Never again.'

Perhaps these words need to become slogans in today's America. One of the most profound realities expressed here ever-so-poignantly and clearly is that we will never begin to move beyond our history of repression until we fully accept, acknowledge and understand it's consequences. Perhaps more so, we must open our eyes to the full-scale of those atrocities.

From the decimation of indigenous populations and usurping their existence and power to the long history of slavery and the aftermath in Jim Crow and segregation both real and imagined. History has consequences, and sweeping those horrors under giant carpets won't suffice in moving beyond and tackling the various issues which continue to persist.

If we want a country guided and fueled by hope, acceptance, justice and equality if not equity, we also must work within our communities to create those realities. Yes, the national conversation is important. But, change is change, no matter how large or small, and most of live lives within small communities, both real and virtual. Stand up (or sit down), speak truth to stupid and power, and find ways to create communities which reflect those ideals of just, hopeful, righteous and kind. Those ripples we create may travel far, and that is the only thing which will change the national fabric in any long-term and lasting way.

'Never again', indeed.
Profile Image for NCHS Library.
1,221 reviews23 followers
Read
November 2, 2021
Publisher's Description: A no-holds-barred, red-hot discussion of race in America today from some of the leading names in the field, including the bestselling author of Just Mercy
This blisteringly candid discussion of the American dilemma in the age of Trump brings together the head of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, the former attorney general of the United States, a bestselling author and death penalty lawyer, and a star professor for an honest conversation the country desperately needs to hear.

Drawing on their collective decades of work on civil rights issues as well as personal histories of rising from poverty and oppression, these leading lights of the legal profession and the fight for racial justice talk about the importance of reclaiming the racial narrative and keeping our eyes on the horizon as we work for justice in an unjust time.

Covering topics as varied as "the commonality of pain," "when lawyers are heroes," and the concept of an "equality dividend" that is due to people of color for helping America brand itself internationally as a country of diversity and acceptance, Ifill, Lynch, Stevenson, and Thompson also explore topics such as "when did 'public' become a dirty word" (hint, it has something to do with serving people of color), "you know what Jeff Sessions is going to say," and "what it means to be a civil rights lawyer in the age of Trump."

Building on Stevenson's hugely successful Just Mercy, Lynch's national platform at the Justice Department, Ifill's role as one of the leading defenders of civil rights in the country, and the occasion of Thompson's launch of a new center on race, inequality, and the law at the NYU School of Law, A Perilous Path will speak loudly and clearly to everyone concerned about America's perpetual fault line.
18 reviews
September 29, 2025
One month into Trump’s first term in office, four legal scholars/advocates for racial justice met at NYU to discuss the challenges facing the nation. Among the participants were NAACP President Sherrilyn Ifill, former U.S. Attorney General Loretta Lynch, Equal Justice Initiative Executive Director Bryan Stevenson, and NYU Professor Anthony Thompson, who at the time served as the founding faculty director of the Center on Race, Inequality, and the Law at NYU School of Law, which hosted the discussion. This 112 page publication is an edited transcript of that conversation. In the words of Shakespeare, “Though she be but little she is fierce!”

This tiny pocket-sized book is, as Thompson proclaims, “a call to arms” — and (sadly) is even more relevant today than it was when it was first published seven years ago.

Each of the participants offer their thoughts on how both collectively and as individuals we can prevent our country from backsliding and losing ground on social justice gains made in recent decades.

One of the main problems, according to these legal advocates, has been that the narrative surrounding social justice issues has been “hijacked” by those trying to pit one group against another. “It has become one of a limited slice of equality being taken from one group to the benefit of another who has not worked for it,” Lynch explains. Thompson later concludes, “The only way to challenge the national narrative and to remind the public what really is at stake is to make room for voices that have not traditionally been part of the political conversation.”

And it is those individual voices that must be the engines of change to reimagine democracy from the ground up.

This brief and insightful book should be required reading!
Profile Image for Jennifer Vogel.
25 reviews14 followers
January 15, 2018
This book isn't a typical nonfiction piece - it's the transcript of a roundtable discussion on racism, inequality, law, public infrastructure, and more in the past, present, and the future, by 4 learned minds - the head of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, a former attorney general of the United States, a bestselling author and lawyer, and a star professor of clinical law.

I read this after the wonderful So You Want to Talk About Race by Ijeoma Oluo, which gives a lot of education and direction for white people to unpack their own racism, classism, ableism, etc. It was a great follow up to her book. SYWTTAR was about recognizing and how to unpack it and break it down on a personal level, how to talk to others about race.

A Perilous Path is a vision for the future. It says, "Here are the issues. Here are the facts. Here's what we can do to work on fixing it." Each contributor visits the problems from different angles, but they're all good and worthwhile and useful suggestions, while also saying they don't have all the answers. It was an eye-opening read for the weekend before Martin Luther King, Jr Day.
Profile Image for Clazzzer C.
589 reviews15 followers
April 9, 2020
Can somebody please give this book to Trump to read, the man who said he promised to make America great again. How can a country be great and yet discriminate again such a large percentage of its population? How can a country ever be great if its primary intention is not to make itself and the rest of the world the safest place to live for all of mankind. This is such a great read. I'm not familiar with previous works from the other three authors but I also read The Sun Does Shine from Bryan Stevenson and I stand 100% with all that man believes. He truly is a remarkable man, a shining light amid so much oppression and discrimination. God created every one of us in his own image- colour, religion, class, gender, sexual orientation- all labels, images, categories are unimportant. Society, our leaders, us the people of the world need to learn tolerance, understanding and compassion so that everybody and live side by side in harmony. Read this book and pass it on to others, again and again and again, until the message has been heard by everybody. It's a fantastically accurate, current and poignant read. And please pass it on to Trump also!!!!
Profile Image for Helene.
600 reviews14 followers
February 15, 2023
This book is on the reading list for the Road Scholar Civil Rights Tour. It is the most current book on the list though it is from a talk in 2018. It is hopeful, yet realistic. The authors are well respected and knowledgeable. It is short and I definitely need to read it again.

The authors indicate that the focus for litigation is shifting from race to gender issues. It's not that racial equality is all taken care of and not as important, but I think the awareness of legal gender issues, particularly with minors, is fragile and should be in the forefront.

It's really frightening that the Trump administration did so much damage to civil rights. We need to fight gerrymandering and champion diversity. Well, I've always said the one good thing the Trump administration did was bring all of these issues to the forefront, not hiding under the surface.

So many important things said in this talk. I'm very glad it was printed.
Profile Image for Elsie.
766 reviews
November 26, 2021
Such a great conversation! It seems at times like a hopeless pursuit: Justice and equality for all, yet Bryan Stevenson reminds us, “injustice prevails where hopelessness persists”. They are many issues that go beyond racism, demonstrating that many of the concerns affect both black and white but we often relegate “the” issue to blacks. They address disparity in housing, transportation, access to health care and mental health services. Bryan points out that many of our kids growing up in poor neighborhoods experience violence and trauma at home and in their community before they even start school at 5 or 6. If we, as a community, aren’t addressing that trauma it will only get worse as they work through our public education. No wonder they turn to drugs as a release from that trauma. I’m so glad to see many are having these conversations. I want to be part of the solution!
Profile Image for Eddie.
112 reviews49 followers
April 20, 2020
Here's some things I think you should know about A Perilous Path:
- it's a small book 4.75in x 7.25in and 112 pages.
- it's basically a transcript of a discussion, moderated by Anthony C. Thompson with Sherrilyn Ifill, Loretta Lynch and Bryan Stevenson as the panel.
- it takes place Feb. 2017, so there are some references that are dated.... for ex. Jeff Sessions as U.S. Attorney General.
- if you, like me, have read/follow Stevenson and/or Ifill, there will be some themes you definitely have heard before. With that, I tried to glean whatever new I could from this discussion and given the amount of time invested, I felt it was a worthwhile exercise.

My advice, if you are going to get the book, get ebook or audiobook & treat it like a long article or opinion piece.
Profile Image for Amy Ingalls.
1,475 reviews15 followers
June 9, 2020
This book is a transcription of a talk that took place on February 27, 2017. Although there were no new, ground-breaking ideas on how to further achieve racial and social justice, the discussion is so important. As a teacher, I am glad that they focused on the role of schools, and reforming them so that kids are not expelled or suspended. Making schools the focal point of the community, and a place for entire families to receive services.

The underlying concern of this book was the election of President Trump and the rollback of human rights. Reading this now, during the BLM movement, shows how right they were to be worried and how much work needs to be done.

I won this book in a Goodreads Giveaway.
Profile Image for Alisse.
154 reviews1 follower
February 15, 2018
This is a published conversation between the four headlining authors—lots of reflection on the current state of US government, justice issues like mass incarceration, redlining, racism. I found the dialogue helpful, although many of the statistics were familiar. I think for anyone not familiar with how systemic racism is currently affecting our country, this is a much-needed read. I’d be interested to know if there will be an audiobook—the format obviously would work well, but is the conversation already available publicly? Thanks to NetGalley and the publisher for the complimentary review copy.
Profile Image for Domenique.
45 reviews
July 25, 2018
Wow, this talk was inspiring, invigorating, empowering, and arresting. Just a few quotes to make you think... "Increase the shame index of America," "We don't do mistake very well," "if you don't learn to be shameful about shameful misbehavior you'll keep doing that behavior over and over again," "We have to create that cultural moment where apologizing becomes okay."

A Perilous Path is a must read, a must re-read, and a must re-re-read. Thank you Sherrilyn Ifill, Loretta Lynch, Byran Stevenson, and Anthony C. Thompson.
Profile Image for Shana.
1,364 reviews40 followers
April 2, 2018
Shortly after 45 was elected president, four African-American scholars and racial justice advocates came together for a discussion that then became this short and informative book. These are people who are extremely well-versed in the issues facing our society today and who have been at the forefront of many a good fight for justice. Their insight, recommendations, and hope provide a boost of motivation and inspiration during a time where many feel hopeless.
Profile Image for Jaclyn.
290 reviews
May 17, 2018
*I won this book in a Goodreads Giveaway in exchange for an honest opinion*

Wow! This was a really powerful book. It opened my eyes to issues I was not aware about, and furthered my knowledge about the issues I did know about. It was interesting to hear about these issues from people who are so involved in them. Reading this also gave me a sense of hope for our country, even though things don't look the best right now. Highly recommend it!!
65 reviews1 follower
January 15, 2019
What was this book? Or rather why was this a book at all? This is literally just a transcribed discussion between a few academics that wanted to dunk on Trump. They could have at least added references, notes, and clarifications for the book, but instead I felt like they should have just released the audio or video from the actual event as a YouTube video. What a waste of time. Glad I got this from the library instead of wasting money on a transcribed Ted Talk.
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