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Torn Between Two Worlds: Science and Religion
One of the fundamental laws of physics is that a force is met with an equal and opposite force. Since Galileo rescued science from religion, science has done battle with knowledge vs belief. I would go as far as to say that science has violated one of its most basic laws, and as a result, helped to create an equal and opposite force in this world. When we look at history, whenever a group gained power through knowledge (at the expense of others) a force grew within society to oppose it.
The Roman church’s adaptation of Aristotle as their proxy for science, set scientific development back for centuries, until Galileo pried it free in the 17th century. Since then, modern science has developed its theories about the physical world at an amazing pace, while the churches have remained stagnant, with few exceptions.
This book will celebrate the wisdom held by each of these two worlds and attempt to highlight the blind-spots that have kept the two sides from forming a partnership. One of the universal wisdoms that religions have taught for millennia is that when you give, you receive more in return. John Nash received the Nobel Prize for proving this spiritual wisdom and it is in this spirit that a cooperation between science and religion could be formed.
The Roman church’s adaptation of Aristotle as their proxy for science, set scientific development back for centuries, until Galileo pried it free in the 17th century. Since then, modern science has developed its theories about the physical world at an amazing pace, while the churches have remained stagnant, with few exceptions.
This book will celebrate the wisdom held by each of these two worlds and attempt to highlight the blind-spots that have kept the two sides from forming a partnership. One of the universal wisdoms that religions have taught for millennia is that when you give, you receive more in return. John Nash received the Nobel Prize for proving this spiritual wisdom and it is in this spirit that a cooperation between science and religion could be formed.
- GenresNonfiction
68 pages, Kindle Edition
Published September 21, 2017
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Displaying 1 - 14 of 14 reviews
July 20, 2023
"Torn Between Two Worlds" is a well researched and professionally presented writing about the history of the issues that make it difficult to make science and religion relatable to each other. This alone would earn four stars in my world. After attending symposiums on this problem many years ago, I am disappointed that we have not come further in advancing the dialogue between the two. When that happens, if ever, it will be a great step forward. (How do we arrive at a scientific understanding of terms like faith and belief?)
My thanks to the author, Shawn T. Murphy, and to Goodreads Giveaways, through whom I received my electronic copy of this book.
My thanks to the author, Shawn T. Murphy, and to Goodreads Giveaways, through whom I received my electronic copy of this book.
December 28, 2024
This was an intriguing take. I felt it was well researched and truly eye-opening on the matter. Some moments I felt lost as it was very informative, but I felt some of it went over my head. I did find it an intriguing read nonetheless. It's short but packed with informative information.
I won this from a Goodreads giveaway. All of the statements above are my true opinions after fully reading this book.
I won this from a Goodreads giveaway. All of the statements above are my true opinions after fully reading this book.
April 29, 2018
First, I would like to thank Shawn Murphy for providing me with a copy of this book in exchange for an honest review.
“When I write about science in this book, I am referring to a modern scientific stance that is not in harmony with the founders of science. It is a selective belief in the scientific method, an attitude that distrusts religion and is void of spirituality.”
In the first book of the Torn Between Two Worlds trilogy, Murphy argues that science and religion must come together to answer three important questions. Where did we come from? Why are we here? Where are we going? He presents the idea that the questions are unanswerable by the religions of the world, a claim that I believe most theologists would dispute. Science helps people answer these questions, therefore I agree that there must be a close-knit relationship between the two.
In this aspect, I support what Murphy is proposing. He’s obviously done a significant amount of research to write this book. I understand from experience, the works required to adequately research subjects to this level of deepness.
This book is very short. I account this to the fact that this book presents the overarching arguments and sets the reader up for the next two books. Because of the length, I believe that there were many generalizations and often a lack of supporting evidence. I marked at least ten instances where citations or footnotes needed to be included. Although this book was written for laypeople, there were several places where the information put forth was not common knowledge.
One of the first things I do when reading “academic” works is to review the works cited and citations at the back of the book. I do verify the citations whenever possible. This is one of the downfalls of this work. There is a citation on page 25, pointing the reader to Wikipedia. This should never happen in an academic work because the user-generated content and edits are not vetted and can be modified at any time. Rather, finding a resource from the Wikipedia entry that aligns with the content being cited is a better approach. There were many incomplete or incorrect citations included as well. For the average reader, this will go unnoticed. For someone looking to find corroboration, the citations are incredibly important. There were very few endnotes. That is disappointing because there were claims made that needed some further explanation. For example, “Only a tiny fraction of Origen’s Greek works remain today in their original form. Many were translated/transcribed into Latin and ‘adjusted’ to reflect the new church dogma. Most were outright burned.” (page 30) This is not common knowledge, it needs to be cited.
While reading, I tend to catch grammatical issues, typographical errors, and word choice issues. In a self-published book, this is a concern for me. When I find many of these issues in a book, it demonstrates a lack of editing and can, in some cases, discredit the author. There was a clear need for extensive editing, but in this case, it didn’t discredit the author. I hope that at some point, the issues can be corrected.
On page 18, there is a discussion of modern historians. As a historian, I found the assessment somewhat offensive. A claim that modern historians do not use reason and wisdom to examine historical figures and their philosophies need to be substantiated. Having worked with many renowned modern historians, this has never been my experience. In addition, the claim that history is written by the conqueror and that’s only one point of view is inaccurate as written. Yes, in most cases, history is written by the winner. An example is World War II. Most accounts are written from the perspective of, or favoring the allies. This doesn’t mean it’s a one-sided view or that it cannot be verified by at least three independent sources. Japanese authors and former Soviet authors have corroborated the stories. What the author appears to be doing is simplifying historical method, but this is actually a grossly inaccurate over-simplification of how historians work.
My final comment will be about the following statement, “We were all raised with falsehoods and were taught theories that are no longer valid. We were raised with religious dogma, superstitions, and family traditions. Being able to accept that what you learned as a child, in primary school or in college was wrong, takes humility.” I do not believe that this statement is true. Were we raised with falsehoods? If one's family subscribed to dogma, and this is the belief held by the children, even if proved incorrect it is not a falsehood. For example, I was raised in the Catholic Church. I was told, “this is the body of Christ.” No, I did not envision myself practicing cannibalism and even as a young child I realized this was symbolism. In science classes throughout my K-12 years, we talked about a little planet named Pluto. It was later determined that Pluto didn’t earn the title of a planet, but Pluto exists. Was I taught a falsehood? No. I was taught what was known at that point. The author talks about the need to rewrite history any time something new is discovered. To me, that is a ridiculous claim. History can be amended. The correct way to handle this is, “until the late 20th century it was a commonly held belief that xxx happened. In 2006, new information surfaced that proved xxx happened, but not in the way we thought.” I believe that religion and science should be handled in the same way, instead of being criticized by the opposing school of thought when new information is discovered.
All of the areas I’ve mentioned are important to me, as a reader. They most likely would not and should not deter anyone from reading this book and the other two books in the trilogy. The information presented is interesting and brings up topics that we don’t tend to think about as critically as we should. I learned several things from reading this and I will most likely read it again.
“When I write about science in this book, I am referring to a modern scientific stance that is not in harmony with the founders of science. It is a selective belief in the scientific method, an attitude that distrusts religion and is void of spirituality.”
In the first book of the Torn Between Two Worlds trilogy, Murphy argues that science and religion must come together to answer three important questions. Where did we come from? Why are we here? Where are we going? He presents the idea that the questions are unanswerable by the religions of the world, a claim that I believe most theologists would dispute. Science helps people answer these questions, therefore I agree that there must be a close-knit relationship between the two.
In this aspect, I support what Murphy is proposing. He’s obviously done a significant amount of research to write this book. I understand from experience, the works required to adequately research subjects to this level of deepness.
This book is very short. I account this to the fact that this book presents the overarching arguments and sets the reader up for the next two books. Because of the length, I believe that there were many generalizations and often a lack of supporting evidence. I marked at least ten instances where citations or footnotes needed to be included. Although this book was written for laypeople, there were several places where the information put forth was not common knowledge.
One of the first things I do when reading “academic” works is to review the works cited and citations at the back of the book. I do verify the citations whenever possible. This is one of the downfalls of this work. There is a citation on page 25, pointing the reader to Wikipedia. This should never happen in an academic work because the user-generated content and edits are not vetted and can be modified at any time. Rather, finding a resource from the Wikipedia entry that aligns with the content being cited is a better approach. There were many incomplete or incorrect citations included as well. For the average reader, this will go unnoticed. For someone looking to find corroboration, the citations are incredibly important. There were very few endnotes. That is disappointing because there were claims made that needed some further explanation. For example, “Only a tiny fraction of Origen’s Greek works remain today in their original form. Many were translated/transcribed into Latin and ‘adjusted’ to reflect the new church dogma. Most were outright burned.” (page 30) This is not common knowledge, it needs to be cited.
While reading, I tend to catch grammatical issues, typographical errors, and word choice issues. In a self-published book, this is a concern for me. When I find many of these issues in a book, it demonstrates a lack of editing and can, in some cases, discredit the author. There was a clear need for extensive editing, but in this case, it didn’t discredit the author. I hope that at some point, the issues can be corrected.
On page 18, there is a discussion of modern historians. As a historian, I found the assessment somewhat offensive. A claim that modern historians do not use reason and wisdom to examine historical figures and their philosophies need to be substantiated. Having worked with many renowned modern historians, this has never been my experience. In addition, the claim that history is written by the conqueror and that’s only one point of view is inaccurate as written. Yes, in most cases, history is written by the winner. An example is World War II. Most accounts are written from the perspective of, or favoring the allies. This doesn’t mean it’s a one-sided view or that it cannot be verified by at least three independent sources. Japanese authors and former Soviet authors have corroborated the stories. What the author appears to be doing is simplifying historical method, but this is actually a grossly inaccurate over-simplification of how historians work.
My final comment will be about the following statement, “We were all raised with falsehoods and were taught theories that are no longer valid. We were raised with religious dogma, superstitions, and family traditions. Being able to accept that what you learned as a child, in primary school or in college was wrong, takes humility.” I do not believe that this statement is true. Were we raised with falsehoods? If one's family subscribed to dogma, and this is the belief held by the children, even if proved incorrect it is not a falsehood. For example, I was raised in the Catholic Church. I was told, “this is the body of Christ.” No, I did not envision myself practicing cannibalism and even as a young child I realized this was symbolism. In science classes throughout my K-12 years, we talked about a little planet named Pluto. It was later determined that Pluto didn’t earn the title of a planet, but Pluto exists. Was I taught a falsehood? No. I was taught what was known at that point. The author talks about the need to rewrite history any time something new is discovered. To me, that is a ridiculous claim. History can be amended. The correct way to handle this is, “until the late 20th century it was a commonly held belief that xxx happened. In 2006, new information surfaced that proved xxx happened, but not in the way we thought.” I believe that religion and science should be handled in the same way, instead of being criticized by the opposing school of thought when new information is discovered.
All of the areas I’ve mentioned are important to me, as a reader. They most likely would not and should not deter anyone from reading this book and the other two books in the trilogy. The information presented is interesting and brings up topics that we don’t tend to think about as critically as we should. I learned several things from reading this and I will most likely read it again.
May 14, 2018
I may have over estimated my education.
I couldn't quite keep up with what the author was trying to say. Which made for a hard read. It left me feeling a little dumb. Like I wasn't smart enough to keep up. Which is maybe the case. It wasn't entertaining enough for me.
I want to thank the author for letting me read this book for free for an honest review. I'm sorry that I couldn't give a higher rating.
I couldn't quite keep up with what the author was trying to say. Which made for a hard read. It left me feeling a little dumb. Like I wasn't smart enough to keep up. Which is maybe the case. It wasn't entertaining enough for me.
I want to thank the author for letting me read this book for free for an honest review. I'm sorry that I couldn't give a higher rating.
May 19, 2018
This is a very interesting book about the strife between two things that influence many people on a daily basis: science and religion. The author is a student of philosophy as well as holding a degree in engineering, so he has a very good background to discuss both. He takes the reader back to when the philosopher Socrates was teaching his students, and then follows events forward in time to the present day, showing how the schism between religion and science occurred. While Socrates taught that the two worked in cooperation, the centuries that followed saw a definite separation taking place, with each trying to denegrate the other until, at present, it seems that the two will never see eye to eye. This book explains why that does not have to be so, and for that I give it high marks. On a personal note, I had always wondered why the words of Socrates made so much more sense to me than those of Aristotle, which is the philosopher venerated by most of the Christian world. Now I know.
In the introduction, the author states that the book is written in the tradition of the Baha'i faith. Baha'i is a belief system that is an offshoot of Islam, founded by a Muslim mystic named Baha'u'llah in the 19th century. It's primary tenets are monotheistic (the unity of God), the unity of religion (value of all belief systems), and the unity of humanity. Its teachings include the equality of men and women, the eliminiation of all forms of prejudice, and the need for a universal language, among others. It also claims that humanity and religion are progressing through stages that are brought about by messengers that God sends to implement them. These messengers include Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed, and many others (Baha'u'llah himself also claimed to be one). Baha'i sees itself as the latest dispensation of this progressing evolution.
I do have questions about the author's depiction of the belief in reincarnation that he seems to hold. He gives the example of a scientist that studied children who claimed to remember past lives, and had physical marks or ailments that coincided with injuries or illnesses in their previous lives. While I am not adverse to anyone's beliefs (and perhaps because I have been raised in Western society), it strikes me as unusual for a child, especially a young one, to claim something like a past life without at least previous exposure to such beliefs. Such exposure would add a certain dubiousness to these claims.
I have no qualms with the author's message, but this book, being the first of three, seems to offer very few conclusions. Though the author does provide a theory that seems to provide an area where the two opposing factions may meet, the only thing that you really take away from the text is that the worlds of religion and science stopped being compatible when the school of thinking that Socrates initiated was scrapped (on the side of religion) for a more mystical and spiritual one. That reality is all too obvious to those of us who study both.
In the introduction, the author states that the book is written in the tradition of the Baha'i faith. Baha'i is a belief system that is an offshoot of Islam, founded by a Muslim mystic named Baha'u'llah in the 19th century. It's primary tenets are monotheistic (the unity of God), the unity of religion (value of all belief systems), and the unity of humanity. Its teachings include the equality of men and women, the eliminiation of all forms of prejudice, and the need for a universal language, among others. It also claims that humanity and religion are progressing through stages that are brought about by messengers that God sends to implement them. These messengers include Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed, and many others (Baha'u'llah himself also claimed to be one). Baha'i sees itself as the latest dispensation of this progressing evolution.
I do have questions about the author's depiction of the belief in reincarnation that he seems to hold. He gives the example of a scientist that studied children who claimed to remember past lives, and had physical marks or ailments that coincided with injuries or illnesses in their previous lives. While I am not adverse to anyone's beliefs (and perhaps because I have been raised in Western society), it strikes me as unusual for a child, especially a young one, to claim something like a past life without at least previous exposure to such beliefs. Such exposure would add a certain dubiousness to these claims.
I have no qualms with the author's message, but this book, being the first of three, seems to offer very few conclusions. Though the author does provide a theory that seems to provide an area where the two opposing factions may meet, the only thing that you really take away from the text is that the worlds of religion and science stopped being compatible when the school of thinking that Socrates initiated was scrapped (on the side of religion) for a more mystical and spiritual one. That reality is all too obvious to those of us who study both.
May 16, 2018
I would like to thank Shawn Murphy for a copy of this book and for the chance to give the book an honest review.
This short book caught my interest because if I’m honest it’s an age-old argument in my family so getting a fresh insight into a different point of view on science and religion.
I found it a relatively easy book to read and found it pretty well researched and referenced. There wasn’t really anything that I personally found offensive or too different from what I believe or had an understanding of. Murphy mentions he was hesitant to write this book I understand as to why as there is a very fine balance that needs to be found when writing about either religion or science, but I would urge you to read this, it is a window into something more than what harm can be done looking into a different insight to your own you can either learn something or discover how much you believe in your own beliefs.
Murphy states that you must study the physical sciences to understand the natural laws and explains through the book the fundamental differences between the scientist & the philosopher, while in his opinion a philosopher needs to be a scientist first.
This is the first book in the Torn Between Two Worlds trilogy, Murphy argues that science and religion must come together to answer three important questions that we still don’t solidly have an answer too….
• Where did we come from?
• Why are we here?
• Where are we going?
Murphy believes that these questions are unanswerable by the religions of the world alone and that science can help answer these questions. Murphy’s research allows him to take from the works of Socrates, Plato and others, to come to the conclusion that these two seemingly irreconcilable fields don't make sense unless they are understood together. He also outlines the historical influences that have led to the separation of these once collaborative forces.
I honestly think the book is worth a read and people should not be discouraged from reading this book and the other two books in the trilogy. The information presented is interesting and brings up topics that we don’t tend to think about as critically as we should. I am going to repeat myself because it is worth mentioning again what harm can be done looking into a different insight to your own you can either learn something or discover how much you believe in your own beliefs.
This short book caught my interest because if I’m honest it’s an age-old argument in my family so getting a fresh insight into a different point of view on science and religion.
I found it a relatively easy book to read and found it pretty well researched and referenced. There wasn’t really anything that I personally found offensive or too different from what I believe or had an understanding of. Murphy mentions he was hesitant to write this book I understand as to why as there is a very fine balance that needs to be found when writing about either religion or science, but I would urge you to read this, it is a window into something more than what harm can be done looking into a different insight to your own you can either learn something or discover how much you believe in your own beliefs.
Murphy states that you must study the physical sciences to understand the natural laws and explains through the book the fundamental differences between the scientist & the philosopher, while in his opinion a philosopher needs to be a scientist first.
This is the first book in the Torn Between Two Worlds trilogy, Murphy argues that science and religion must come together to answer three important questions that we still don’t solidly have an answer too….
• Where did we come from?
• Why are we here?
• Where are we going?
Murphy believes that these questions are unanswerable by the religions of the world alone and that science can help answer these questions. Murphy’s research allows him to take from the works of Socrates, Plato and others, to come to the conclusion that these two seemingly irreconcilable fields don't make sense unless they are understood together. He also outlines the historical influences that have led to the separation of these once collaborative forces.
I honestly think the book is worth a read and people should not be discouraged from reading this book and the other two books in the trilogy. The information presented is interesting and brings up topics that we don’t tend to think about as critically as we should. I am going to repeat myself because it is worth mentioning again what harm can be done looking into a different insight to your own you can either learn something or discover how much you believe in your own beliefs.
March 20, 2018
This short book highly interested me personally hence the 5 stars. I have struggled with the logic of science vs the highly illogic representation of religion. Each person is entitled to their own view. I grew up around religion although I wasn't battered over the head with it.
Science needs to be more open to the unexplained, one certainty I have come to believe is that we need mathematics to understand the universe.
As the author states one must study the physical sciences to understand the natural laws. The book outlines the fundamental differences between the scientist & the philosopher, first a philosopher needs to be a scientist.
The book describes Plato & his ties to Aristotle & Socrates, how Plato & Jesus have taken root in several cultures. This is very interesting to me, I intend to read more on the subject.
By his own admission the author was hesitant to write this book-I do understand why, I would urge you to read this, it is a window into something more than what we know, what we are taught, what modern society demands.
This is a subject I have had debates on many many times.
Thoroughly enjoyed a view point I would not have had had the author decided against writing this.
Science needs to be more open to the unexplained, one certainty I have come to believe is that we need mathematics to understand the universe.
As the author states one must study the physical sciences to understand the natural laws. The book outlines the fundamental differences between the scientist & the philosopher, first a philosopher needs to be a scientist.
The book describes Plato & his ties to Aristotle & Socrates, how Plato & Jesus have taken root in several cultures. This is very interesting to me, I intend to read more on the subject.
By his own admission the author was hesitant to write this book-I do understand why, I would urge you to read this, it is a window into something more than what we know, what we are taught, what modern society demands.
This is a subject I have had debates on many many times.
Thoroughly enjoyed a view point I would not have had had the author decided against writing this.
May 12, 2018
I was never a religious person because from an early age the words of the priests sounded phony to me. Science made more sense. Philosophy made more sense. I like logic in things and this makes me a doubter.
Shawn Murphy is a scientist with an interest in religion and philosophy and an extensive knowledge in these fields.
In 'Torn between two worlds - science and religion', he shows us, in short words, how religion evolved to match the interests of the rulers.
It is a known fact that religion is the best tool to rule the people but to see the extend they went to cut, to deform the original thoughts into anything that will serve them is different.
We get to know more about the works of Socrates, of Origen of Alexandria, how Aristotle came to be a great philosopher, and how science, in the past a part of philosophy and wisdom, came to be a separate religion, sometime with its own blind shades.
The book is a very interesting read, recommended to all who question things around us.
Shawn Murphy is a scientist with an interest in religion and philosophy and an extensive knowledge in these fields.
In 'Torn between two worlds - science and religion', he shows us, in short words, how religion evolved to match the interests of the rulers.
It is a known fact that religion is the best tool to rule the people but to see the extend they went to cut, to deform the original thoughts into anything that will serve them is different.
We get to know more about the works of Socrates, of Origen of Alexandria, how Aristotle came to be a great philosopher, and how science, in the past a part of philosophy and wisdom, came to be a separate religion, sometime with its own blind shades.
The book is a very interesting read, recommended to all who question things around us.
June 22, 2023
Torn Between Two Worlds
In this book the author started out by suggesting the use of the scientific method in areas of study outside of science. For instance, since history is written by the winners, perhaps humans should be less inclined to totally agree with the stories told by the victors. Another area where this should be used is when researching religion. The scientific community and the people in it have been destroyed and ruled by the religious community for centuries. All the while, people are expected to believe in a book written long after events occurred and has since been translated using definitions those in power see fit.
#GoodreadsGiveaways
In this book the author started out by suggesting the use of the scientific method in areas of study outside of science. For instance, since history is written by the winners, perhaps humans should be less inclined to totally agree with the stories told by the victors. Another area where this should be used is when researching religion. The scientific community and the people in it have been destroyed and ruled by the religious community for centuries. All the while, people are expected to believe in a book written long after events occurred and has since been translated using definitions those in power see fit.
#GoodreadsGiveaways
April 18, 2018
"Torn Between Two Worlds: Science and Religion" explores the idea that religion and science are compatible. Shawn Murphy draws from the works of Socrates, Plato, and Origen, to come to the conclusion that these two seemingly irreconcilable fields don't make sense unless they are understood together. He also outlines the historical influences that have led to the separation of the once conjoint subjects.
What sets this book apart is its short length and layman's vocabulary, which positions it as an excellent introduction to the concept, which was first set forth by the ancient Greeks.
What sets this book apart is its short length and layman's vocabulary, which positions it as an excellent introduction to the concept, which was first set forth by the ancient Greeks.
April 29, 2018
I’ve always believed that faith and science were separated only by organized religion. One of the lovely things this book does is show the shortcomings of science, dogma, and so-called reason. Answers to the Big Three (Where did we come from? Why are we here? Where are we going?) require desire, readiness, and humility on the part of the questioner. Because the author is willing to question both science AND religion, he carries far more credibility than the usual one sided attacks levied by the Church or atheists. And he redeems Origen and Socrates.
June 21, 2023
Not a philosophical expert. (I earned a C+ [which killed my GPA] in my college Philosophy class--I didn't get it!) This captured my attention, though. I focused more on the religion than the science, but the two are more intertwined than I was aware of. I will definitely continue in the series to see where it's going and how it ends up.
(Would have been five stars had it not contained innumerable errors. The author is a very concise writer, but needs the expertise of a proofreader before publishing.)
(Would have been five stars had it not contained innumerable errors. The author is a very concise writer, but needs the expertise of a proofreader before publishing.)
July 7, 2018
A really accessible entry in this 3 volume philosophy work. It's interesting to follow Shawn T. Murphy on this personal quest for knowledge. I was introduced to the Baha'i religion through this book. I look forward to exploring Baha'i. Excellent series of books, especially good poolside reading in the Kindle format.
June 10, 2024
It was an interesting read. I definitely was confused with some of it. But others, I definitely understood and agreed with.
Displaying 1 - 14 of 14 reviews