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Bounds of Redemption #1
The Axe and the Throne
It is a fool's errand and Tallos knows it, but against his own better judgment and the pleading of his wife, Tallos has committed himself to a voyage north. His lifelong friend's eldest sons are said to have been taken by Northmen, a raiding people ill-reputed for their savagery. The boys are already dead, Tallos knows, and in that dark place of grim reasoning he wishes only to find their corpses quickly so he can fulfill his promise and return to his wife. Instead, he finds something far worse.
493 pages, Kindle Edition
First published October 15, 2014
650 people are currently reading
5565 people want to read
About the author
M.D. Ireman
2 books238 followersM. D. IREMAN was diagnosed as 'left-brained' early in life due to a troublesome affliction: an affinity for math and science. The stigma of his condition followed him from primary school into college, where he earned a scholarship to the Carnegie Mellon School of Computer Science. Against the pleas of his doctors, he gave up his scholarship to pursue a different calling, and has been building Sci-Fi and Fantasy worlds professionally for nearly two decades.
Now a middle-aged recluse with more thumbs than friends, he lives in the mountains of Colorado with his wife, the deer, the hawks, and the rabbits.
Now a middle-aged recluse with more thumbs than friends, he lives in the mountains of Colorado with his wife, the deer, the hawks, and the rabbits.
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May 19, 2017
The author saw fit to comment on my original review criticizing my perspective as disingenuous to which I reply- sir I find your claim on page 437 of Axe and The Throne that “all reviews are greatly appreciated” disingenuous.
I’ll also leave this here: authors- don't respond to reviews
An author that needs to put a foreword in their novel suggesting that "thin-skinned readers will be quickly offended" with a condescending suggestion that they continue to read instead of "throwing the book down in protest for the victims" has probably written a book that relies on lazy tropes in the name of "realism"... in a fantasy novel... about magic. Here’s a link about this topic that you might find interesting also; sexism in fantasy
Unfortunately when I bought the ebook it went straight to the first chapter and I went into the book without this indication of what was to come.
So here goes:
THE GOOD
The Writing
The writing style was solid. I didn’t notice it either way. At no point did I think “what a nice turn of phrase” but I didn’t roll my eyes or cringe either. The writing was clean and clear.. Characters are fairly well drawn, especially some of the men.
World building
Too many authors these days have a fantasy world that is more loosely drawn then a six year olds crayon craft. Not the case here. It is a complex and multi-layered medieval era fantasy world. Not particularly unique but well drawn.
THE BAD
Plot and Characterization
The plot is fairly trope- ridden. Sons’ try to impress fathers’, civil wars and power plays, ordinary characters developing magical powers, a eunuch vying for power, noble nords etc, etc.
The story is really complex with a number of different plot threads that are at times hard to track. It is not always clear regarding the timeline how exactly events are fitting together.
There is also far too many perspective shifts for a first novel, especially because too many of them appeared unrelated even at the end of the novel.
It was hard to really get a good handle on who was being written in for the sake of conveying info (a terribly lazy writing technique only tolerated in the high fantasy) and who was going to provide a significant investment for the reader. As such it was hard to know when to care or even why I was reading about a new person.
The novel was obviously written as part of a series and one criticism I have of the plot was that regardless of whether the book is the first in a series it should still follow the conventions of story telling- a beginning, middle and end with character development throughout the story. Far to many of the various threads failed in this basic necessity- perhaps because there are too many characters each telling different stories.
It’s almost impossible to write a high fantasy novel these days without being compared unfavorably to Martin, but some of the story lines and characters seemed just a bit too derivative for my taste- I am not against a derivative novel told well but I think it is a fine line to tread.
THE UGLY
So this is the bit of my original review that M.D thought was disingenuous:
Main character's wife is fridged in the beginning and her own husband accusers her (corpse) of being a whore because she didn't fight the rape hard enough. Another female character is written as an unredeeming bitch because she resents being forced into a marriage. Every female in this plot is stupid, sick, weak or a bitch. Why is it that some writers can write decent male characters and then produce only absurd tropes when it comes to female characters?
A book can have a sexist character in a sexist world and still not be a misogynistic book. It is all in the way the story and characters are crafted. A sexist book shows sexism without nuance and without consequence. A sexist book depicts sexism as the unquestioned, universally embraced status quo. In a book about sexism—or to put it another way, in a book with sexism in it—sexist characters exist alongside characters with varying opinions on the subject.
Just like in the real world.
Gender relations in Axe and the Throne:
Let’s look at an example, Life on the Preservation:
“Billy had the big revolver, but he had told her to keep the small gun for protection. It had belonged to his mother. He said it was a good gun for a girl. Kylie let that pass.”
A female character (who by the way displays agency and purpose in the plot) responds to the sexism in a way that beautifully demonstrates a sexist character and a woman relating to one another without the author accidently appearing to condone the attitude of the sexist character. It is a sexist character in a sexist world but it is not a sexist book.
Let’s compare this with a scene from Axe and the Throne:
Keethro is talking about how his wife shows side boob and it irks him:
“A supple grip holds twice as strong… Keethro found this applied to most things, women most of all.”
“He knew that she dressed as she did not only for her own pride, but as a subtle, if not subconscious test for him.”
“This was a game they played. She would provoke him, and he would answer as expected with a certain violence.”
What is missing? What makes this a sexist book rather then a sexist character in a sexist world? The fact that at no point is this perspective challenged. His wife does not get a right of reply. There is no challenge to this unrelenting sexism. And it is constant. ALL. THROUGH. THE. BOOK. With numerous characters, in a variety of settings. I could triple the size of this review just by quoting sexist comments within this novel.
Rape as portrayed in Axe and the Throne:
Does including rape in a novel make it sexist? Of course not! Rape can and occasionally should be explored in fiction. However, it is an easy and over used crutch, especially in fantasy. There are occasions where rape can be used without seeming exploitive and casually sexist.
For example Prince of Thorns features so much rape you could describe it as a motif of the novel. This novel toes the line and undoubtly some people would find it goes too far, however there are to things Lawerence does well when discussing various rapes.
1.) Lawrence provides competing narratives, differing opinions and adds texture to the descriptions which highlight that the girls are actually fully fleshed out human beings. It was clear that the sexism and gendered violence was condoned by the characters not be the author.
2.) Any rape that occurred with regard to main characters was used to propel their own growth not that of their male counterparts. This is really important. That is why his books earned 3 and 4 stars from me despite the sexist content.
There are no stories about how a man was raped and his girlfriend got bloody revenge even thou male rape is shockingly common. Don’t use gendered violence for another character’s growth- it is icky, tropish, and a reflection of sexist underpinnings about how we view relationships between women and the men they “belong” to.
Let’s compare with the story of Tallos whose wife is raped and murdered as inspiration for his character development. Here is Tallos pondering why his wife didn’t fight harder:
“He wondered if he could forgive her for not having done what they carefully planned…Did you even fight your attackers? Did you enjoy it, you whore?”
What. The. Fuck.
WHY?? Tallos was an otherwise progressive and likeable character. Up until that point his relationship with his wife was the ONLY relationship which reflected equality without creepy rape vibes. Literally. FFS not only is it so extremely offensive it is poor writing and a total break in character. And, predictably, like salt on a wound… her rape and murder is the event that propels him to be reborn with magic powers.
There is also rape as protection and love in the book- “I found the slave and instantly fell in love so I’m the only one that gets to have my way with her and none of you bitches better touch her”.
And revenge rape- “after how I pined for that traitor whore now I’m going to reveal my penis and force her to thank me”.
This book is a sexist book. It is not a book about sexist characters within a sexist world. It is just plan sexist. And really could you expect anything else from a book that needs a foreword by the author suggesting readers take the words of the Nameless Gazer (btw… wtf? That is an imaginary narrator in the book, should I take to heart Dumbledore’s words of wisdom as well?) and “not pass judgement until their final acts are done”.
Unfortunately I do pass judgement. And I judge this book barely deserving of 2 stars.*
I cannot believe I just wasted an hour and a half of my life reviewing this.
*Dropped to 1 star. I have noticed a weird trend where self-published books often have inflated high scores. It is so infuriating as a reader. Especially if you see active members with normal ratings scores (3.5 avg) and then a bunch of 4 and 5 star reviewers who have reviewed 20 books with a 4.8 ratings avg.
A Response to Popular Criticisms of My Review:
These are parts of responses I made to both this review and another review you can read here. They are more general in nature.
“This is grimdark, if you can’t handle the genre don’t read it.”
Fuck you. I’m not being raped every other day in real life so why the fuck should every god-damn women in grimdark fantasy? If this is so fucking inevitable to the genre why does Best Served Cold manage to incorporate fully fleshed out female characters without constantly resorting to gendered violence? Why is Joe Abercrombie able to have a character who is a loving, single parent... and a vicious torturer? Why is he able to have a female character that fucks and chucks a bloke and ends up better off for it? The reality is that some writers can and do write grimdark without resorting to sexist stereotypes and gendered violence.
“Grimdark is just being honest. This is reality.”
Grimdark is a subgenre that describes a particular the tone, style or setting of speculative fiction (especially fantasy) that is, depending on the definition used, markedly dystopian or amoral, or particularly violent or realistic.
Here’s the thing- grimdark does not have to equal sexism. N.K. Jemison’s Broken Earth series (The Fifth Season) is dystopian, amoral, violent and realistic. However, shockingly, characters don’t suffer because they are women. It is possible to write a grim dark novel and include harrowing, realistic scenes without resorting automatically to gendered violence.
When you say, “well this is realistic” or “this is historically accurate” you are saying that realistic worldbuilding requires the inclusion of certain specific inequalities in order to count as realistic – that a story cannot be honest, or characters believably human, if women aren’t oppressed or villainous. You are assuming that current expressions of bigotry, sexism and racism are universal truths.
You are saying that there is no other possible reality that could be believable and then wonder why we get pissed off. Novels like Axe and the Throne reinforce specific inequalities as inevitable, thereby further perpetuating those perspectives.
The thing is grimdark doesn’t accurately reflect the historical period it is trying to mimic or even current reality. Where is the male rape? Where are the soldiers dying, not in an epic battle, but from infected scratches? Where are the people going insane from syphilis, which hero has a dick full of pus as a result of his philandering? Why aren’t the sexually active women pregnant? Why can so many characters read? I think you understand what I am getting at.
The real problem is that grimdark as a genre has developed an aesthetic that readers have become familiar with. As a result it feels realistic and right . Hardboiled pulp noir mysteries felt realistic in the 1950’s but we look back on them now and see them as a product of the author's time period, not as an accurate depiction of any sort of reality. The same is true for grimdark. It appeals to modern cynicism and we are so used to seeing gendered violence and oppressed women that we think this is realistic. But it isn’t. And I strenuously reject any claims to the contrary.
“The real world is not the same as a fictional world, authors shouldn’t have to be PC, fuck you and all the other SJW’s out to ruin everything.”
Firstly, why are you so invested in seeing women raped and POC victimised in your fiction? I think this says more about you then me.
Secondly, fiction has real- world consequences. Negative and positive. The Birth of a Nation inspired the formation of the second era of the Klu Klux Klan. 12 Years a Slave and other true accounts were essential in the political fight against slavery.
Fiction is not created or read in a vacuum.
It is no coincidence that the MRA movement evolved out of the gaming community. There is a reason women read and write “feminist” fiction.
On one level or another we all acknowledge the very real and important ways stories permeate and shape our experience of the world.
That said this is a subjective review. No one is preventing Ireman from publishing his work or you from reading it. I can say I don't like it and his fans can keep reading it. My dislike for something does not prevent you from enjoying it. I'm not lurking behind Ireman's writing desk with a butcher's knife telling him to write better fiction…or else…
“Not every woman has to be a superhero who rescues kitties and knows karate.”
Yep. I’m well- aware of that, thanks.
Women do not have to fall into a handful of archetypes. They do not have to be the hero every time or to always succeed. A Mary Sue is just as infuriating as a trophy vagina. What is necessary is that female characters are as multi-faceted and flawed as male characters. They need to have their own motivations and goals. If they suffer it should be part of their own character arc not their love interests.
NOTE: This review was commented on repeatedly by the author between 2014 and 2017. A number of other comments from shill accounts waxed lyrical about this book being god's gift and what a bitch I am. Recently, a huge number of comments were nuked without my knowledge or permission, including some written by the author, a number of other accounts and even some of my own and my friends which really pissed me off. It also makes the comments section largely incoherent.
I’ll also leave this here: authors- don't respond to reviews
An author that needs to put a foreword in their novel suggesting that "thin-skinned readers will be quickly offended" with a condescending suggestion that they continue to read instead of "throwing the book down in protest for the victims" has probably written a book that relies on lazy tropes in the name of "realism"... in a fantasy novel... about magic. Here’s a link about this topic that you might find interesting also; sexism in fantasy
Unfortunately when I bought the ebook it went straight to the first chapter and I went into the book without this indication of what was to come.
So here goes:
THE GOOD
The Writing
The writing style was solid. I didn’t notice it either way. At no point did I think “what a nice turn of phrase” but I didn’t roll my eyes or cringe either. The writing was clean and clear.. Characters are fairly well drawn, especially some of the men.
World building
Too many authors these days have a fantasy world that is more loosely drawn then a six year olds crayon craft. Not the case here. It is a complex and multi-layered medieval era fantasy world. Not particularly unique but well drawn.
THE BAD
Plot and Characterization
The plot is fairly trope- ridden. Sons’ try to impress fathers’, civil wars and power plays, ordinary characters developing magical powers, a eunuch vying for power, noble nords etc, etc.
The story is really complex with a number of different plot threads that are at times hard to track. It is not always clear regarding the timeline how exactly events are fitting together.
There is also far too many perspective shifts for a first novel, especially because too many of them appeared unrelated even at the end of the novel.
It was hard to really get a good handle on who was being written in for the sake of conveying info (a terribly lazy writing technique only tolerated in the high fantasy) and who was going to provide a significant investment for the reader. As such it was hard to know when to care or even why I was reading about a new person.
The novel was obviously written as part of a series and one criticism I have of the plot was that regardless of whether the book is the first in a series it should still follow the conventions of story telling- a beginning, middle and end with character development throughout the story. Far to many of the various threads failed in this basic necessity- perhaps because there are too many characters each telling different stories.
It’s almost impossible to write a high fantasy novel these days without being compared unfavorably to Martin, but some of the story lines and characters seemed just a bit too derivative for my taste- I am not against a derivative novel told well but I think it is a fine line to tread.
THE UGLY
So this is the bit of my original review that M.D thought was disingenuous:
Main character's wife is fridged in the beginning and her own husband accusers her (corpse) of being a whore because she didn't fight the rape hard enough. Another female character is written as an unredeeming bitch because she resents being forced into a marriage. Every female in this plot is stupid, sick, weak or a bitch. Why is it that some writers can write decent male characters and then produce only absurd tropes when it comes to female characters?
A book can have a sexist character in a sexist world and still not be a misogynistic book. It is all in the way the story and characters are crafted. A sexist book shows sexism without nuance and without consequence. A sexist book depicts sexism as the unquestioned, universally embraced status quo. In a book about sexism—or to put it another way, in a book with sexism in it—sexist characters exist alongside characters with varying opinions on the subject.
Just like in the real world.
Gender relations in Axe and the Throne:
Let’s look at an example, Life on the Preservation:
“Billy had the big revolver, but he had told her to keep the small gun for protection. It had belonged to his mother. He said it was a good gun for a girl. Kylie let that pass.”
A female character (who by the way displays agency and purpose in the plot) responds to the sexism in a way that beautifully demonstrates a sexist character and a woman relating to one another without the author accidently appearing to condone the attitude of the sexist character. It is a sexist character in a sexist world but it is not a sexist book.
Let’s compare this with a scene from Axe and the Throne:
Keethro is talking about how his wife shows side boob and it irks him:
“A supple grip holds twice as strong… Keethro found this applied to most things, women most of all.”
“He knew that she dressed as she did not only for her own pride, but as a subtle, if not subconscious test for him.”
“This was a game they played. She would provoke him, and he would answer as expected with a certain violence.”
What is missing? What makes this a sexist book rather then a sexist character in a sexist world? The fact that at no point is this perspective challenged. His wife does not get a right of reply. There is no challenge to this unrelenting sexism. And it is constant. ALL. THROUGH. THE. BOOK. With numerous characters, in a variety of settings. I could triple the size of this review just by quoting sexist comments within this novel.
Rape as portrayed in Axe and the Throne:
Does including rape in a novel make it sexist? Of course not! Rape can and occasionally should be explored in fiction. However, it is an easy and over used crutch, especially in fantasy. There are occasions where rape can be used without seeming exploitive and casually sexist.
For example Prince of Thorns features so much rape you could describe it as a motif of the novel. This novel toes the line and undoubtly some people would find it goes too far, however there are to things Lawerence does well when discussing various rapes.
1.) Lawrence provides competing narratives, differing opinions and adds texture to the descriptions which highlight that the girls are actually fully fleshed out human beings. It was clear that the sexism and gendered violence was condoned by the characters not be the author.
2.) Any rape that occurred with regard to main characters was used to propel their own growth not that of their male counterparts. This is really important. That is why his books earned 3 and 4 stars from me despite the sexist content.
There are no stories about how a man was raped and his girlfriend got bloody revenge even thou male rape is shockingly common. Don’t use gendered violence for another character’s growth- it is icky, tropish, and a reflection of sexist underpinnings about how we view relationships between women and the men they “belong” to.
Let’s compare with the story of Tallos whose wife is raped and murdered as inspiration for his character development. Here is Tallos pondering why his wife didn’t fight harder:
“He wondered if he could forgive her for not having done what they carefully planned…Did you even fight your attackers? Did you enjoy it, you whore?”
What. The. Fuck.
WHY?? Tallos was an otherwise progressive and likeable character. Up until that point his relationship with his wife was the ONLY relationship which reflected equality without creepy rape vibes. Literally. FFS not only is it so extremely offensive it is poor writing and a total break in character. And, predictably, like salt on a wound… her rape and murder is the event that propels him to be reborn with magic powers.
There is also rape as protection and love in the book- “I found the slave and instantly fell in love so I’m the only one that gets to have my way with her and none of you bitches better touch her”.
And revenge rape- “after how I pined for that traitor whore now I’m going to reveal my penis and force her to thank me”.
This book is a sexist book. It is not a book about sexist characters within a sexist world. It is just plan sexist. And really could you expect anything else from a book that needs a foreword by the author suggesting readers take the words of the Nameless Gazer (btw… wtf? That is an imaginary narrator in the book, should I take to heart Dumbledore’s words of wisdom as well?) and “not pass judgement until their final acts are done”.
Unfortunately I do pass judgement. And I judge this book barely deserving of 2 stars.*
I cannot believe I just wasted an hour and a half of my life reviewing this.
*Dropped to 1 star. I have noticed a weird trend where self-published books often have inflated high scores. It is so infuriating as a reader. Especially if you see active members with normal ratings scores (3.5 avg) and then a bunch of 4 and 5 star reviewers who have reviewed 20 books with a 4.8 ratings avg.
A Response to Popular Criticisms of My Review:
These are parts of responses I made to both this review and another review you can read here. They are more general in nature.
“This is grimdark, if you can’t handle the genre don’t read it.”
Fuck you. I’m not being raped every other day in real life so why the fuck should every god-damn women in grimdark fantasy? If this is so fucking inevitable to the genre why does Best Served Cold manage to incorporate fully fleshed out female characters without constantly resorting to gendered violence? Why is Joe Abercrombie able to have a character who is a loving, single parent... and a vicious torturer? Why is he able to have a female character that fucks and chucks a bloke and ends up better off for it? The reality is that some writers can and do write grimdark without resorting to sexist stereotypes and gendered violence.
“Grimdark is just being honest. This is reality.”
Grimdark is a subgenre that describes a particular the tone, style or setting of speculative fiction (especially fantasy) that is, depending on the definition used, markedly dystopian or amoral, or particularly violent or realistic.
Here’s the thing- grimdark does not have to equal sexism. N.K. Jemison’s Broken Earth series (The Fifth Season) is dystopian, amoral, violent and realistic. However, shockingly, characters don’t suffer because they are women. It is possible to write a grim dark novel and include harrowing, realistic scenes without resorting automatically to gendered violence.
When you say, “well this is realistic” or “this is historically accurate” you are saying that realistic worldbuilding requires the inclusion of certain specific inequalities in order to count as realistic – that a story cannot be honest, or characters believably human, if women aren’t oppressed or villainous. You are assuming that current expressions of bigotry, sexism and racism are universal truths.
You are saying that there is no other possible reality that could be believable and then wonder why we get pissed off. Novels like Axe and the Throne reinforce specific inequalities as inevitable, thereby further perpetuating those perspectives.
The thing is grimdark doesn’t accurately reflect the historical period it is trying to mimic or even current reality. Where is the male rape? Where are the soldiers dying, not in an epic battle, but from infected scratches? Where are the people going insane from syphilis, which hero has a dick full of pus as a result of his philandering? Why aren’t the sexually active women pregnant? Why can so many characters read? I think you understand what I am getting at.
The real problem is that grimdark as a genre has developed an aesthetic that readers have become familiar with. As a result it feels realistic and right . Hardboiled pulp noir mysteries felt realistic in the 1950’s but we look back on them now and see them as a product of the author's time period, not as an accurate depiction of any sort of reality. The same is true for grimdark. It appeals to modern cynicism and we are so used to seeing gendered violence and oppressed women that we think this is realistic. But it isn’t. And I strenuously reject any claims to the contrary.
“The real world is not the same as a fictional world, authors shouldn’t have to be PC, fuck you and all the other SJW’s out to ruin everything.”
Firstly, why are you so invested in seeing women raped and POC victimised in your fiction? I think this says more about you then me.
Secondly, fiction has real- world consequences. Negative and positive. The Birth of a Nation inspired the formation of the second era of the Klu Klux Klan. 12 Years a Slave and other true accounts were essential in the political fight against slavery.
Fiction is not created or read in a vacuum.
It is no coincidence that the MRA movement evolved out of the gaming community. There is a reason women read and write “feminist” fiction.
On one level or another we all acknowledge the very real and important ways stories permeate and shape our experience of the world.
That said this is a subjective review. No one is preventing Ireman from publishing his work or you from reading it. I can say I don't like it and his fans can keep reading it. My dislike for something does not prevent you from enjoying it. I'm not lurking behind Ireman's writing desk with a butcher's knife telling him to write better fiction…or else…
“Not every woman has to be a superhero who rescues kitties and knows karate.”
Yep. I’m well- aware of that, thanks.
Women do not have to fall into a handful of archetypes. They do not have to be the hero every time or to always succeed. A Mary Sue is just as infuriating as a trophy vagina. What is necessary is that female characters are as multi-faceted and flawed as male characters. They need to have their own motivations and goals. If they suffer it should be part of their own character arc not their love interests.
NOTE: This review was commented on repeatedly by the author between 2014 and 2017. A number of other comments from shill accounts waxed lyrical about this book being god's gift and what a bitch I am. Recently, a huge number of comments were nuked without my knowledge or permission, including some written by the author, a number of other accounts and even some of my own and my friends which really pissed me off. It also makes the comments section largely incoherent.
March 29, 2016
Why so many favorable ratings? I just cannot understand this unless someone is spamming these lists.
And I really cannot understand the people who say "the writing was not bad, but..." The writing is bad. Period. Writing, as all communication, is a two-person effort and the harder the writer works, the easier things are for the reader. Nothing about this guy's writing drew me in. I could not begin to live the world in the book, no matter how many times I picked it up. Having come directly from Patrick Rothfuss, The Axe and the Throne was a terrible disappointment.
Masses of characters: I don't mind having lots of characters. But the characters have to become real. And the more characters there are, the more each one has to stand out as an individual. In this book, however, not only are they hard to tell apart, a lot of them seem like paper cutouts of Game of Thrones Characters. Examples: A portly, effeminate guy who deals in secrets. A hero of less-than-heroic height. A tyrannical king who is less than pleased with the strength of his heirs.
Violence, depravity, sex: These are all important additions if they are believable, and flow naturally from the story. If they makes me squirm on my couch and say, “Oh my God!” (Bernard Cornwell's Saxon series is one of my current favorites.) But if the writing is bad and if the characters do not become real people, then the violence comes across as nothing more than an expression of the writer's closet fantasies. All writing is this way to a degree, but I expect a 10 dollar book to be more than “Dear Diary, guess what I considered doing today.”
Finally, pictures. Really? In a book for adults? I understand that the writer probably wanted to try to get away with not having to actually describe his characters, but if you are going to go that far, why even bother to write in the first place? I was embarrassed to open my kindle on the train.
In a word, yuck. This ranks up there in my 2 worst fantasy books of all time, right next to “Orcs!” I don’t know which is worse.
And I really cannot understand the people who say "the writing was not bad, but..." The writing is bad. Period. Writing, as all communication, is a two-person effort and the harder the writer works, the easier things are for the reader. Nothing about this guy's writing drew me in. I could not begin to live the world in the book, no matter how many times I picked it up. Having come directly from Patrick Rothfuss, The Axe and the Throne was a terrible disappointment.
Masses of characters: I don't mind having lots of characters. But the characters have to become real. And the more characters there are, the more each one has to stand out as an individual. In this book, however, not only are they hard to tell apart, a lot of them seem like paper cutouts of Game of Thrones Characters. Examples: A portly, effeminate guy who deals in secrets. A hero of less-than-heroic height. A tyrannical king who is less than pleased with the strength of his heirs.
Violence, depravity, sex: These are all important additions if they are believable, and flow naturally from the story. If they makes me squirm on my couch and say, “Oh my God!” (Bernard Cornwell's Saxon series is one of my current favorites.) But if the writing is bad and if the characters do not become real people, then the violence comes across as nothing more than an expression of the writer's closet fantasies. All writing is this way to a degree, but I expect a 10 dollar book to be more than “Dear Diary, guess what I considered doing today.”
Finally, pictures. Really? In a book for adults? I understand that the writer probably wanted to try to get away with not having to actually describe his characters, but if you are going to go that far, why even bother to write in the first place? I was embarrassed to open my kindle on the train.
In a word, yuck. This ranks up there in my 2 worst fantasy books of all time, right next to “Orcs!” I don’t know which is worse.
February 8, 2017
Not for me. A quarter in and I can't find a plot.
Also I was tricked into thinking this book was higher in acclaim than it is because it was a "sponsored ad" made to look like it was in the top ten on BestFantasyBooks. It wasn't. It was mischievously squeezed between #5 and #6
Also I was tricked into thinking this book was higher in acclaim than it is because it was a "sponsored ad" made to look like it was in the top ten on BestFantasyBooks. It wasn't. It was mischievously squeezed between #5 and #6
May 16, 2018
Forced myself to the 50%. It was hard. Lives to the disclaimer, but not in the way it wants to.
Mostly dull a boring stretch that tries to be ASOSIAF.
I hope Mr. Ireman the best, because the writing from sentence to sentence has potential. I'm just sad about its flaws.
Mostly dull a boring stretch that tries to be ASOSIAF.
I hope Mr. Ireman the best, because the writing from sentence to sentence has potential. I'm just sad about its flaws.
October 27, 2015
The Axe and the Throne has been a delight in every sense. So much character building takes place. It is vastly detailed, but gracefully so. Ireman has made me feel like this world is right next door to me (however, I can remember places within the world, but what do they call this world overall?). I love the glimpses of magic that creep up in the story. There's endless amounts of stomach turning, heart stopping, jaw dropping, oh my god I'm closing the book before I poo myself cause I can't believe that just happened, moments in this book. It's epicness is unrivaled in many ways. I found myself unable to stop turning page after page.
The book is set in multiple p.o.vs which is frustrating in the beginning, but don't let that deter you. I'm greatful that I didn't. There is no possibility of knowing what is to happen next. The book is like a breathe of fresh air. Ireman found the most beautiful balance between real and fiction. There is no one hero. Everyone is so flawed, and relatable. There is however, a healthy dose of not real, which are the parts I so love to live in. Magic, and creatures, objects, and gods. (Insert girlish squeel here). Kings and queens, and armies, and geniuses, and evil ass holes. Love, and plenty of just kidding sorry that didn't happen. I don't know how Ireman did it, but I found myself laughing quite a bit as well. Did I mention, also, the badassery? Yeah, all in one book.
If this is what Ireman produces as his first, I've got butterflies thinking about his improvements (not that they are needed). Ireman's, not exactly profitable, work of art. Please keep writing!
Also, I encourage writing reviews on every book you read. You don't have to be a professional, artful in the way of words, ect. Just tell us what you thought. Stars mean nothing to me, and reviews are the first thing I read. Share the love!
Spoilers below this point. Don't ruin it for yourself, sheesh
P.s. if you can move me to want to jump into the book and slap the willies out of fictional people (cough cough, Kilandra, Cassen, Stephon, and dare I say it Keethro and Alther) It's got my vote. I love this book.
p.p.s Keethro, I love you, I take it back, no slapping, but you're dumb. Ughh. Stoppp ittttt.
Titon, whyyyyy are you not real? You delicious fool of a warrior. So beautifully flawed. I'd trade coffee for you. And that's a big deal.
Alther, just Alther. My heart. You are sooo goood. I wanted to see you and your wife love each otherrrr. Like mushy gooshy. But why are you, yah know, you? You kill me.
Tallos, knock that shit off buddy, ew.
Ethel, you seriously bother me. Your mom, Crella, is totally awesome.
Annora, get it girl, you strong independent you! Don't let these bastards bring you down.
Decker, and Titon Jr. I've said it before I'll say it again. Figure. your. shit. out. You willy nilly numsculls. And by the Dawnstar keep it in your pants, you little sluts. You two need a serious hug, like, seriously.
Kilandra, I loathe you. Mountain's tits, you game playing wenchhhh. I hope you're clobbered to death.
Cassen, you're confused, Im confused. We're all effing confused.
Stephon, what the eff is wrong with you? holy shit.
Ellie, WHAT ARE YOU DOINGGGGGG??? YOU'RE AWAKE AND YOUR DELICIOUS OOEY GOOEY WARRIOR IS GOING TO DIIIIIEEEE. Gaze on that! Wake up girl, sweet jesus.
But I digress, since there is no Titon, I must return to my coffee drinking. I could probably continue to drawl on forever, but I dont have the knack for words like Ireman does. So I'll leave it here. Thanks for reading, and pick up that book!
The book is set in multiple p.o.vs which is frustrating in the beginning, but don't let that deter you. I'm greatful that I didn't. There is no possibility of knowing what is to happen next. The book is like a breathe of fresh air. Ireman found the most beautiful balance between real and fiction. There is no one hero. Everyone is so flawed, and relatable. There is however, a healthy dose of not real, which are the parts I so love to live in. Magic, and creatures, objects, and gods. (Insert girlish squeel here). Kings and queens, and armies, and geniuses, and evil ass holes. Love, and plenty of just kidding sorry that didn't happen. I don't know how Ireman did it, but I found myself laughing quite a bit as well. Did I mention, also, the badassery? Yeah, all in one book.
If this is what Ireman produces as his first, I've got butterflies thinking about his improvements (not that they are needed). Ireman's, not exactly profitable, work of art. Please keep writing!
Also, I encourage writing reviews on every book you read. You don't have to be a professional, artful in the way of words, ect. Just tell us what you thought. Stars mean nothing to me, and reviews are the first thing I read. Share the love!
Spoilers below this point. Don't ruin it for yourself, sheesh
P.s. if you can move me to want to jump into the book and slap the willies out of fictional people (cough cough, Kilandra, Cassen, Stephon, and dare I say it Keethro and Alther) It's got my vote. I love this book.
p.p.s Keethro, I love you, I take it back, no slapping, but you're dumb. Ughh. Stoppp ittttt.
Titon, whyyyyy are you not real? You delicious fool of a warrior. So beautifully flawed. I'd trade coffee for you. And that's a big deal.
Alther, just Alther. My heart. You are sooo goood. I wanted to see you and your wife love each otherrrr. Like mushy gooshy. But why are you, yah know, you? You kill me.
Tallos, knock that shit off buddy, ew.
Ethel, you seriously bother me. Your mom, Crella, is totally awesome.
Annora, get it girl, you strong independent you! Don't let these bastards bring you down.
Decker, and Titon Jr. I've said it before I'll say it again. Figure. your. shit. out. You willy nilly numsculls. And by the Dawnstar keep it in your pants, you little sluts. You two need a serious hug, like, seriously.
Kilandra, I loathe you. Mountain's tits, you game playing wenchhhh. I hope you're clobbered to death.
Cassen, you're confused, Im confused. We're all effing confused.
Stephon, what the eff is wrong with you? holy shit.
Ellie, WHAT ARE YOU DOINGGGGGG??? YOU'RE AWAKE AND YOUR DELICIOUS OOEY GOOEY WARRIOR IS GOING TO DIIIIIEEEE. Gaze on that! Wake up girl, sweet jesus.
But I digress, since there is no Titon, I must return to my coffee drinking. I could probably continue to drawl on forever, but I dont have the knack for words like Ireman does. So I'll leave it here. Thanks for reading, and pick up that book!
January 8, 2015
This novel is firmly in the high fantasy genre, and if you enjoy detailed world building and Game of Thrones style tales, this is definitely for you. I enjoyed it very much and would be pleased to recommend it to others. I am also extremely intrigued as to what comes next. :)
January 13, 2016
This book was difficult to get into at first, as it was difficult to keep all of characters straight. It was more than worth the effort! I found the story engaging & very well written. I can't wait to see where the author is going with this! Top notch!
July 17, 2016
My interest in the grimdark genre has led to me reading some pretty poor fiction, but I think The Axe and the Throne takes the cake. Poorly developed and paper-thin characters. The writing is terrible. The dialogue is wretched. By the middle of the book I had to glance back at the condescending 'warning' the writer felt so compelled to include, giggling in disbelief to myself. 'A challenging read'? Challenging in a sense, sure: I'd rather be strapped to a chair while Stephen Hawking's text-to-voice program read Jim Butcher's entire bibliography, than read another book by this author.
The inability to understand and communicate basic emotions and realistic human responses jumps off the page any time characters interact (or even during the course of personal introspection).
I'll make an offer to the author - if you refund my money for buying this book, I'll personally mail you a copy of both On Writing and The Elements of Style. If only to save readers of your future works from even a handful of Swiftians. Whew.
The inability to understand and communicate basic emotions and realistic human responses jumps off the page any time characters interact (or even during the course of personal introspection).
I'll make an offer to the author - if you refund my money for buying this book, I'll personally mail you a copy of both On Writing and The Elements of Style. If only to save readers of your future works from even a handful of Swiftians. Whew.
March 21, 2016
If you like world building and character building, then this is the book for you. The characters are awesome, the complexities the characters develop and the characteristics that develop are true to form.
This builds, and builds and builds. And as soon as it starts to boil up, you are left wanting a whole lot more. I mean that, it may seem frustrating, but to be honest. I do not know how this could have simply ended any other than this......
You must read the second book. Yes you have to because you are simply going, that is it. Wait a minute, there has to be more. Seriously, where is the rest........
I am telling you, if you want a book that takes you right to the edge, read this because everything is building, taking on a head of steam, and wham!
I really enjoyed this, it was a struggle at first, but the characters and the world suck you in deep.
This builds, and builds and builds. And as soon as it starts to boil up, you are left wanting a whole lot more. I mean that, it may seem frustrating, but to be honest. I do not know how this could have simply ended any other than this......
You must read the second book. Yes you have to because you are simply going, that is it. Wait a minute, there has to be more. Seriously, where is the rest........
I am telling you, if you want a book that takes you right to the edge, read this because everything is building, taking on a head of steam, and wham!
I really enjoyed this, it was a struggle at first, but the characters and the world suck you in deep.
June 17, 2015
Wonderful Read
Not only does every character have an amazing amount of depth, but there seems to be a genuine surprise around every corner. I recommend this to anybody who is into fantasy, and can't wait for the second book!
Not only does every character have an amazing amount of depth, but there seems to be a genuine surprise around every corner. I recommend this to anybody who is into fantasy, and can't wait for the second book!
February 4, 2016
A very good read
I like the characters and their individual flaws. The anti heroes are some the best I've seen. I can't wait for the next book.
I like the characters and their individual flaws. The anti heroes are some the best I've seen. I can't wait for the next book.
August 17, 2016
Disappointed that I stopped reading after 130 pages or so.
Could not get any traction. The writing was pedestrian and almost like watered down fan fiction for a Game of Thrones universe.
I honestly could not keep track of the northmen who were so bland that there was no distinguished way in which they spoke or acted.
Could not get any traction. The writing was pedestrian and almost like watered down fan fiction for a Game of Thrones universe.
I honestly could not keep track of the northmen who were so bland that there was no distinguished way in which they spoke or acted.
February 16, 2016
While I understand most tastes vary, for me brevity is the most desired quality in a book. I rated this book low because of its convoluted nature. For the plot alone this book would have been better served at three hundred plus pages instead of over five hundred. Like Game of the Thrones it had multiple POV's and so far in my opinion, only Mr. Martin can pull that style of writing off.
First of all there is too much internal or self-dialogue in this book which seems to replace scene and location description. So many thoughts, emotions, ruminations... a lot of 'stuff'. Plot gets lost, I got bored too easily that when things did happen I was too mentally exhausted to enjoy the actions sequences which were to far in-between. I read fantasy for the battle scenes, the drama, the action. This was chocker-block full of complicated dialogue which really made you work to extrapolate the intrigue. Emotions were muted and understated, I could only briefly latch onto a character and I really couldn't form any attachment to the characters, it left me empty. I really wanted something that would make me want to read another book and I couldn't find it. There was too many frivolous charcteristics. There were two (2) characters with the same name (Triton). Names like Ethel and Crella, you don't use plain-jane names in fantasy.
The main thing that was lacking was plot, a clear narrative with a clear path to resolution. The author clearly fell in love with his style of writing and not the end result. There was very little that was gratifying, that the reader could hold onto. The author wants you to like his style over the content. He wants you to get his subtlety and to really work to digest his writing.
This does not have commonplace appeal, truly an acquired taste. You have to really like the subtle, the vague, the word-play, the understatement and the bland to get through this one. I am on the spectrum, I read alot of these books. RA Salvatore and the Forgotten Realms are much more worth a reader's time. The Song of Ice and Fire is the only one that really does gripping multiple POV's .
Seriously, I was really bored, it was reading-torture, and was relieved when it was over.
First of all there is too much internal or self-dialogue in this book which seems to replace scene and location description. So many thoughts, emotions, ruminations... a lot of 'stuff'. Plot gets lost, I got bored too easily that when things did happen I was too mentally exhausted to enjoy the actions sequences which were to far in-between. I read fantasy for the battle scenes, the drama, the action. This was chocker-block full of complicated dialogue which really made you work to extrapolate the intrigue. Emotions were muted and understated, I could only briefly latch onto a character and I really couldn't form any attachment to the characters, it left me empty. I really wanted something that would make me want to read another book and I couldn't find it. There was too many frivolous charcteristics. There were two (2) characters with the same name (Triton). Names like Ethel and Crella, you don't use plain-jane names in fantasy.
The main thing that was lacking was plot, a clear narrative with a clear path to resolution. The author clearly fell in love with his style of writing and not the end result. There was very little that was gratifying, that the reader could hold onto. The author wants you to like his style over the content. He wants you to get his subtlety and to really work to digest his writing.
This does not have commonplace appeal, truly an acquired taste. You have to really like the subtle, the vague, the word-play, the understatement and the bland to get through this one. I am on the spectrum, I read alot of these books. RA Salvatore and the Forgotten Realms are much more worth a reader's time. The Song of Ice and Fire is the only one that really does gripping multiple POV's .
Seriously, I was really bored, it was reading-torture, and was relieved when it was over.
January 10, 2017
Oh my freaking goodness!!
This book was absolutely amazing and I devoured it in three days! I'm surprised no one has mentioned the glaring Game of Thrones similarities but that may be because we're all thinking what no one wants to ask out in the open...Did Ireman just out-Martin Martin?? I'm not prepared to determine whether we have a pretender or a contender but I will say this book had me hooked from the beginning and never let me go. And the three major surprises near the end will leave you breathless and rushing to Ireman's site to join his mailing list. Trust me, you'll want to be notified when the sequel is released!
This book was absolutely amazing and I devoured it in three days! I'm surprised no one has mentioned the glaring Game of Thrones similarities but that may be because we're all thinking what no one wants to ask out in the open...Did Ireman just out-Martin Martin?? I'm not prepared to determine whether we have a pretender or a contender but I will say this book had me hooked from the beginning and never let me go. And the three major surprises near the end will leave you breathless and rushing to Ireman's site to join his mailing list. Trust me, you'll want to be notified when the sequel is released!
November 18, 2015
I wanted to like this book, but ultimately was unable to to so. Every character seems to make the worst possible assumptions and act on them in every instance. I'm all about the grim in grimdark, but this was just a little too much.
October 9, 2015
So happy I found this book. Dark, unrelenting and beautiful. I can't wait for more, I will be reading a second time.
January 14, 2019
It can be somewhat amusing, reading the reactions to this book. I feel a bit like Goldilocks.
On the one hand, there are some mystified fools who picked up a work of unapologetic Grimdark, and then seemed to be shocked -- SHOCKED! -- that it was... a work of unapologetic Grimdark. These folks rated the book very low, and expressed their horror that it contained brutality, sexual exploitation of women, The Patriarchy, and was dark, and violent. These people should be ignored and not taken seriously.
On the other hand, there is also a brigade of people who are themselves reacting to the first group of people, who rate it highly just because they are sick of the SJW themed belly-aching about a work of fiction that isn't woke enough. These reviews and evaluations are bereft of any kind of critical analysis or evaluation, and are simply positive about the book because of inherent irritation at the people who are negative about the book.
And then there's me. I rated it three starts. Somewhere in the middle of all that mess.
I happen to be a fan of Grimdark, in general, because I find it a far more authentic, honest, and raw storytelling universe. I appreciate being transported into a place that I feel is a bit more honest about what a Dark Ages / Medieval society actually looked like. I like people who use the brutality and unfairness of that type of universe to craft heroes that overcome real trials, rather than rather pedestrian trials.
The enjoyment of that genre doesn't come from the enjoyment of pain, suffering and humiliation, but rather from the affirmative, active reaction to those things. How those things are overcome, and what somebody does in the face of that.
Rather than complaining about what happens to you and demanding that somebody stop the unfair treatment visited upon your life, as occurs so often in the real world, protagonists in this type of world know that no one actually cares, and that it is up to them to overcome the horror they have been subjected to.
That said, I think there can be an over-indulgence of this type of thing in the genre. Now, writers -- many of whom are at their core uncreative and lazy -- substitute "dark, gritty environment" and "violence" for story. They rely on the cheap and easy things, like shock, or unexpected death, as a narrative device, because they have nothing else of any substance to say. This, for instance, is my quibble with what The Walking Dead has become. Character development has ceased. Interesting plotting has ceased. Now we're left with blood and violence, because we are out of other things to say.
The Axe and the Throne demonstrates, to me, both the good and the bad of the genre. I really liked and genuinely appreciated the world building and environment he created here, but at the same time, I think at times he lost track and his story unraveled, slipping into darkness for the sake of darkness.
The book features a very large cast of characters, and a somewhat anachronistic storyline, though that seems to be less of a feature of the novel the further along we go. Many characters have similar (or the same) name, which can be hard to follow if you aren't paying attention. I found the character illustrations to be silly and a bit sophomoric -- it felt like a Harry Potter novel at times, only with rape and murder.
I think Ireman is strongest, in a world building sense, with the hearty northmen. I think his use of dialogue, his descriptiveness about their society, and the way the characters view both each other and the world all do a very good job of painting a vivid image in your mind of a genuine society of brutish, primitive, but ultimately noble in their way, people. Yes, the "Northman" concept is a bit of a cliche and a fantasy trope, but he still did it well.
What was less good, in my opinion, was the overall stitching together of the disparate plot. I bought into the somewhat asymmetrical storyline, and didn't have trouble following it, but I still questioned why I was ultimately reading. Not in that I regretted reading the book, but in that I couldn't quite identify the overall story arc I was supposed to be following and caring about.
It was not (thank God) a big story about titanic struggles between the forces of good and evil. There was no Messiah figure who was prophesied to save the world. There was no real magical system that created Gods out of men. It was a contained, smaller story, which I really appreciated.
But smaller stories still need to be stories, and outside of a few of the events that I can tell you happened, I still am not quite certain of the ultimate "why" that this book was written. What did the author want me to take away from it? Simply experiencing an intriguing, dark world of his creation? Is it really the "cure" plot, which I don't think had a satisfying arc? Was it only meant to set the stage -- a pet peeve of mine, incidentally -- for another book coming in the series?
I'm not sure, honestly.
What I am sure of is a few things:
1. The initial disclaimer in the beginning of the book is one of the most pretentious, laughably arrogant things I have ever read in my entire life. I mean, he is right, the universe he created is not for everyone, and yes I can see many people having trouble with the way the plotline is designed, but holy hell man, there were other ways of warning your readers that the contents might be a bit different without sounding like that.
2. Once you got beyond that, I thought the initial third of the book was both really interesting, and also well written. I liked the world building. I liked the various sub-plots. I liked the mystery, wondering how all these stories related to one another.
3. The middle of the book drags along, in my opinion. Significantly so.
4. The end of the book does get more interesting again, and as I've said, it often leaves you wondering what the purpose of the book was, and what he was really trying to tell for a story, but it was still pretty decent, I thought.
5. Overall, Ireman is a good, if undisciplined writer. This was self-published, I believe, and if it were to go the traditional process of publishing, an editor would change a lot of it, edit some of it out, ask him to add more in places, and probably bring a tightness to the narrative that it currently lacks.
Overall, though, I thought it was a perfectly fine novel, particularly for a guy who seems early in his journey as an author. I enjoyed it in parts, slogged through the parts I didn't enjoy, and at the end didn't regret that I read it. Not my highest praise, by any stretch of the imagination, but at the end of the day, I think it is worth the read.
On the one hand, there are some mystified fools who picked up a work of unapologetic Grimdark, and then seemed to be shocked -- SHOCKED! -- that it was... a work of unapologetic Grimdark. These folks rated the book very low, and expressed their horror that it contained brutality, sexual exploitation of women, The Patriarchy, and was dark, and violent. These people should be ignored and not taken seriously.
On the other hand, there is also a brigade of people who are themselves reacting to the first group of people, who rate it highly just because they are sick of the SJW themed belly-aching about a work of fiction that isn't woke enough. These reviews and evaluations are bereft of any kind of critical analysis or evaluation, and are simply positive about the book because of inherent irritation at the people who are negative about the book.
And then there's me. I rated it three starts. Somewhere in the middle of all that mess.
I happen to be a fan of Grimdark, in general, because I find it a far more authentic, honest, and raw storytelling universe. I appreciate being transported into a place that I feel is a bit more honest about what a Dark Ages / Medieval society actually looked like. I like people who use the brutality and unfairness of that type of universe to craft heroes that overcome real trials, rather than rather pedestrian trials.
The enjoyment of that genre doesn't come from the enjoyment of pain, suffering and humiliation, but rather from the affirmative, active reaction to those things. How those things are overcome, and what somebody does in the face of that.
Rather than complaining about what happens to you and demanding that somebody stop the unfair treatment visited upon your life, as occurs so often in the real world, protagonists in this type of world know that no one actually cares, and that it is up to them to overcome the horror they have been subjected to.
That said, I think there can be an over-indulgence of this type of thing in the genre. Now, writers -- many of whom are at their core uncreative and lazy -- substitute "dark, gritty environment" and "violence" for story. They rely on the cheap and easy things, like shock, or unexpected death, as a narrative device, because they have nothing else of any substance to say. This, for instance, is my quibble with what The Walking Dead has become. Character development has ceased. Interesting plotting has ceased. Now we're left with blood and violence, because we are out of other things to say.
The Axe and the Throne demonstrates, to me, both the good and the bad of the genre. I really liked and genuinely appreciated the world building and environment he created here, but at the same time, I think at times he lost track and his story unraveled, slipping into darkness for the sake of darkness.
The book features a very large cast of characters, and a somewhat anachronistic storyline, though that seems to be less of a feature of the novel the further along we go. Many characters have similar (or the same) name, which can be hard to follow if you aren't paying attention. I found the character illustrations to be silly and a bit sophomoric -- it felt like a Harry Potter novel at times, only with rape and murder.
I think Ireman is strongest, in a world building sense, with the hearty northmen. I think his use of dialogue, his descriptiveness about their society, and the way the characters view both each other and the world all do a very good job of painting a vivid image in your mind of a genuine society of brutish, primitive, but ultimately noble in their way, people. Yes, the "Northman" concept is a bit of a cliche and a fantasy trope, but he still did it well.
What was less good, in my opinion, was the overall stitching together of the disparate plot. I bought into the somewhat asymmetrical storyline, and didn't have trouble following it, but I still questioned why I was ultimately reading. Not in that I regretted reading the book, but in that I couldn't quite identify the overall story arc I was supposed to be following and caring about.
It was not (thank God) a big story about titanic struggles between the forces of good and evil. There was no Messiah figure who was prophesied to save the world. There was no real magical system that created Gods out of men. It was a contained, smaller story, which I really appreciated.
But smaller stories still need to be stories, and outside of a few of the events that I can tell you happened, I still am not quite certain of the ultimate "why" that this book was written. What did the author want me to take away from it? Simply experiencing an intriguing, dark world of his creation? Is it really the "cure" plot, which I don't think had a satisfying arc? Was it only meant to set the stage -- a pet peeve of mine, incidentally -- for another book coming in the series?
I'm not sure, honestly.
What I am sure of is a few things:
1. The initial disclaimer in the beginning of the book is one of the most pretentious, laughably arrogant things I have ever read in my entire life. I mean, he is right, the universe he created is not for everyone, and yes I can see many people having trouble with the way the plotline is designed, but holy hell man, there were other ways of warning your readers that the contents might be a bit different without sounding like that.
2. Once you got beyond that, I thought the initial third of the book was both really interesting, and also well written. I liked the world building. I liked the various sub-plots. I liked the mystery, wondering how all these stories related to one another.
3. The middle of the book drags along, in my opinion. Significantly so.
4. The end of the book does get more interesting again, and as I've said, it often leaves you wondering what the purpose of the book was, and what he was really trying to tell for a story, but it was still pretty decent, I thought.
5. Overall, Ireman is a good, if undisciplined writer. This was self-published, I believe, and if it were to go the traditional process of publishing, an editor would change a lot of it, edit some of it out, ask him to add more in places, and probably bring a tightness to the narrative that it currently lacks.
Overall, though, I thought it was a perfectly fine novel, particularly for a guy who seems early in his journey as an author. I enjoyed it in parts, slogged through the parts I didn't enjoy, and at the end didn't regret that I read it. Not my highest praise, by any stretch of the imagination, but at the end of the day, I think it is worth the read.
August 19, 2016
I was really looking forward to this book because of the high reviews, but upon reading the first page I became irritated, and things went downhill from there.
'WARNING: The Axe and the Throne is not intended for mass consumption. It is a challenging read, both in complexity and content...It is a limited audience that enjoys making sense of what others consider merely frustrating...'
Ok. That's slightly obnoxious. But I thought at least it had to mean the book was good, because who would preface their writing that way unless they were supremely confident about its success? Annoyed, I was nonetheless inexplicably buoyed, and I kept on.
To the first page of the book which introduced Northmen in the third sentence. That's right: northern warriors reappear yet again in another fantasy novel. And the typical story kept on coming.
Many points of view (which is something I like), but no depth to any of the characters. They frequently felt flat, ill drawn and one-dimensional.
And the women...they made me sad. I could see potential in some of the female characters, obviously for future books, but if they don't impress me or draw me in while reading the first book, I'm never going to read the next. There were lots of rapes and abuses of women as seems to have become the norm in this genre, but they came across like plot points that had been written down on a list, where that scene there ticked off that plot point and then we moved on.
There were a couple of times where the impact of an event was shown, but it came across as heavy-handed and obvious, an attempt to evoke emotion or sympathy with an easy explanation.
Added to all of this were the many typical characters and events that take place in fantasy books which I cannot be bothered to go into detail about. I was expecting something new and exciting; this was not it.
'WARNING: The Axe and the Throne is not intended for mass consumption. It is a challenging read, both in complexity and content...It is a limited audience that enjoys making sense of what others consider merely frustrating...'
Ok. That's slightly obnoxious. But I thought at least it had to mean the book was good, because who would preface their writing that way unless they were supremely confident about its success? Annoyed, I was nonetheless inexplicably buoyed, and I kept on.
To the first page of the book which introduced Northmen in the third sentence. That's right: northern warriors reappear yet again in another fantasy novel. And the typical story kept on coming.
Many points of view (which is something I like), but no depth to any of the characters. They frequently felt flat, ill drawn and one-dimensional.
And the women...they made me sad. I could see potential in some of the female characters, obviously for future books, but if they don't impress me or draw me in while reading the first book, I'm never going to read the next. There were lots of rapes and abuses of women as seems to have become the norm in this genre, but they came across like plot points that had been written down on a list, where that scene there ticked off that plot point and then we moved on.
There were a couple of times where the impact of an event was shown, but it came across as heavy-handed and obvious, an attempt to evoke emotion or sympathy with an easy explanation.
Added to all of this were the many typical characters and events that take place in fantasy books which I cannot be bothered to go into detail about. I was expecting something new and exciting; this was not it.
May 31, 2016
A great new epic fantasy for adults! The best I've read in years, and a relief to know that there are still those taking risks with their concepts and writing in Epic Fantasy. It's not YA, it's undoubtedly controversial to many people who like their characters and worlds to be fiction within fiction - but this is very real, and true to the times and scenarios of the world, while still being epic, of course.
I love this book, I can't wait for the sequel and I'll be a fan of this author for ever more - I've already recommended him to all I know will enjoy it!
I love this book, I can't wait for the sequel and I'll be a fan of this author for ever more - I've already recommended him to all I know will enjoy it!
February 8, 2016
I thought this book was great. I'm an epic fantasy buff and found this story to resonate with me in a similar way as Joe Abercrombie's The First Law. The story was great, the characters are awesome, and it's written in a way that you would expect from seasoned fantasy. I would highly recommend and can't wait for the sequel.
March 31, 2015
Fantastic
As I am sure many fellow readers are wary of self-publications I am as well. After signing up for Kindle unlimited I found it easier to risk a free book. None however were as good as The Axe and the Throne.
As I am sure many fellow readers are wary of self-publications I am as well. After signing up for Kindle unlimited I found it easier to risk a free book. None however were as good as The Axe and the Throne.
October 20, 2015
Excellent read
Well written, good characterization, looking forward to the rest of the series. The author is destined for big things!
The transition between characters was well done.
Well written, good characterization, looking forward to the rest of the series. The author is destined for big things!
The transition between characters was well done.
July 10, 2016
Best book I've read in a long time
If you're a fan of Martin you'll definitely enjoy this book. Like in song of ice and fire there are quite a few characters to follow and none are black and white in terms of character. Highly recommend! Can't wait for the next book
If you're a fan of Martin you'll definitely enjoy this book. Like in song of ice and fire there are quite a few characters to follow and none are black and white in terms of character. Highly recommend! Can't wait for the next book
April 25, 2015
Masterfully written with incredible attention to detail and character development yet remarkably fast paced and suspenseful.
A joy to read.....
A joy to read.....
July 24, 2015
May be a first time author but do not be fooled. The writing is extraordinary and the story fascinating. I love Fantasy and very much look forward to the rest of the series.
July 31, 2018
Unfortunately, this book popped up on a list for those who like AGoT, Book of the First Law, and other "grimdark" fantasy. This is nothing close. I can sense the enthusiasm here, but it seemed silly at points, the descriptions of scenes and action sequences were boring or cluttered, and characters and plotlines were abandoned too readily to keep my interest -- unlike other multiple-perspective books, the plotlines don't clearly dovetail in a way that is rewarding (at least not in the first 50% of the book), and many of them are just abandoned when characters are killed off early in the book. There's a main character and his dog who is pretty clearly a stand-in for the author, whose bio proclaims he has two "four-legged children" (earlier the main character's wife, who is quickly-but-kind-of-not-quickly killed and raped, describes how children seem to ruin marriages so she's glad they don't have any, which seems like a weird insertion of personal leanings and not exactly realistic for a grim medieval setting). Speaking of the women: these are absurd caricatures from the author's personal fantasies. For instance:
The aforementioned main character's wife dies in the first few chapters of the book, only he doesn't discover her body until page 159, where it has clearly been raped, and his response is "Did you not even fight your attackers? Did you enjoy it, you whore?" Up until now he has shown nothing but absolute adoration and even cutesy silliness with her.
A Northman is arguing with his harridan of a wife, and "He looked at his irate and beautiful wife. Her near thirty years and bearing of their child had seen no ill-effect on her appearance ... tight-fitting furs hugged the frame of her body--slender but not lacking ample curvature"; later the character grabs her by the hair and "this was the game they played. She would provoke him, and he would answer as expected with a certain violence. But as he held her down and took her ..."
Meanwhile, this couple's teenage daughter spends a lot of time looking at herself in the mirror: "Her womanly curves and pouty lips contrasted with her more youthful features such as her button nose and doe-like eyes. Much to her delight, these features had not gone unnoticed by the boys her age and older."
The author seems to have a thing for this anime-style "cute face, slender build, sexy curves" description, because soon after, in one of many "Many years ago" chapters that are meant to build backstory or suspense, a Northman woman is following a hunter to seduce him. This is probably the teenage girl's mother and her actual father (not the husband in the earlier excerpt, who worries about his daughter's red hair because neither of them have red hair ...). After several paragraphs about how her main skills and interest were in seducing men, we have this description: "Her brown hair, dark as obsidian, shone with the faint cobalt luster of the poisonous privet berries she used to tint it, and when haloed by the white fur of her hood her locks were quite striking. Framing a face of devilish innocence, it was no wonder men could not resist knowing what form of figure stood beneath, nor was it that some found it impossible to tear eyes from the bare flesh of her breasts that peeked from beneath her bodice."
I had to stop there. I'm sure there are more examples of this kind of writing throughout, if that's your thing ... but it's not mine and I'm sad that these are the kinds of women being written in fantasy novels, even grimdark, when there are so much better examples of courageous, capable women even in brutal situations (Shy in Red Country is an amazing example).
Don't believe the 5 stars, or at least check it out from the library instead of buying it. I wish the author the best, but ... it's not good.
The aforementioned main character's wife dies in the first few chapters of the book, only he doesn't discover her body until page 159, where it has clearly been raped, and his response is "Did you not even fight your attackers? Did you enjoy it, you whore?" Up until now he has shown nothing but absolute adoration and even cutesy silliness with her.
A Northman is arguing with his harridan of a wife, and "He looked at his irate and beautiful wife. Her near thirty years and bearing of their child had seen no ill-effect on her appearance ... tight-fitting furs hugged the frame of her body--slender but not lacking ample curvature"; later the character grabs her by the hair and "this was the game they played. She would provoke him, and he would answer as expected with a certain violence. But as he held her down and took her ..."
Meanwhile, this couple's teenage daughter spends a lot of time looking at herself in the mirror: "Her womanly curves and pouty lips contrasted with her more youthful features such as her button nose and doe-like eyes. Much to her delight, these features had not gone unnoticed by the boys her age and older."
The author seems to have a thing for this anime-style "cute face, slender build, sexy curves" description, because soon after, in one of many "Many years ago" chapters that are meant to build backstory or suspense, a Northman woman is following a hunter to seduce him. This is probably the teenage girl's mother and her actual father (not the husband in the earlier excerpt, who worries about his daughter's red hair because neither of them have red hair ...). After several paragraphs about how her main skills and interest were in seducing men, we have this description: "Her brown hair, dark as obsidian, shone with the faint cobalt luster of the poisonous privet berries she used to tint it, and when haloed by the white fur of her hood her locks were quite striking. Framing a face of devilish innocence, it was no wonder men could not resist knowing what form of figure stood beneath, nor was it that some found it impossible to tear eyes from the bare flesh of her breasts that peeked from beneath her bodice."
I had to stop there. I'm sure there are more examples of this kind of writing throughout, if that's your thing ... but it's not mine and I'm sad that these are the kinds of women being written in fantasy novels, even grimdark, when there are so much better examples of courageous, capable women even in brutal situations (Shy in Red Country is an amazing example).
Don't believe the 5 stars, or at least check it out from the library instead of buying it. I wish the author the best, but ... it's not good.
July 11, 2015
Editing review after second read:
As stated above, I've read this book twice now, and I have to say, the second read was eye opening. It is brilliant. There is so much depth, both in the characters and in the plot, full of hidden gems and woven with mastery, that it begins to get into A Song of Ice and Fire territory. Yet whereas the later books in Martin's series took me weeks to finish, I blitzed through The Axe and the Throne so quickly on my first read that I did not fully appreciate it.
*Spoilers follow*
Ethel and Annora could not be more different, but they are both incredible. They are not your typical "strong females" that you read in fantasy, who always end up training in some dark martial arts and kill all the bad guys in hand to hand combat at the end. They have a more realistic power, and to watch it grow (and shrink at times) is awesome.
Tallos and Cassen. These guys were dealt some serious blows, and the way they respond is exactly what I want to see in fantasy. Calling it gritty doesn't quite cut it here. This is raw, gut-wrenching realism at its finest. M. D. Ireman has created two of the most complex characters I've ever read in these. I am afraid of what they may do next.
Titon and Decker, the sons of Titon, are also great, though neither shines as much as the others just yet. With the epic change that young Titon has undergone, however, I see some great things in his future. And who knows what Decker will end up doing with his new toy.
Last, but not least, Titon and Keethro. These guys provided the hero component that I love in fantasy, but these heroes are simply more real. Often at odds with each other (from Keethro's perspective), they provide incredible tension, not to mention heartbreak. What happened to Keethro at the end, and the way he has misunderstood things makes me cringe. I need book 2 to see how that turns out, but I fear the worst for him.
Did I already say last? Because there was another chapter at the end of the book that wasn't there the first time I read it (an update was available for it under "manage devices and content") called The Gazer. The identity of this powerful character is revealed, and it's just a completely unexpected twist. I really, really wonder what it is that she feels she must hide from her husband. I've lost sleep over it.
*BIG spoilers follow here*
Some other things that I thought were cool, and wonder about:
-Why does Griss hate Decker and Titon so much? I think he's the son of the guy big Titon killed when he took Elise.
-Did Titon ever cheat on Elise or not? The Gazer chapter makes it seem like he's beyond reproach. Does The Gazer see everything he does, or just when she happens to be gazing? Perhaps she doesn't have the full story. I think he's faithful though, and Red is Keethro's.
-Why did Tallos's flame not harm that couple? And was it the same reason as why Sture couldn't hurt Toblin, but he could hurt Annora? I think the way to circumvent contravention is to be touching the person. It makes sense in all scenarios as far as I can tell.
-Did Eaira have anything to do with what happened in the throne room, or was that all Cassen?
-Are we supposed to think Crella escaped, or that she ended up going north with Warin?
And Veront better keep up his end of the deal, or I'm going to be pissed. But that doesn't seem likely.
That's all from me until Book 2 comes. I cannot wait.
As stated above, I've read this book twice now, and I have to say, the second read was eye opening. It is brilliant. There is so much depth, both in the characters and in the plot, full of hidden gems and woven with mastery, that it begins to get into A Song of Ice and Fire territory. Yet whereas the later books in Martin's series took me weeks to finish, I blitzed through The Axe and the Throne so quickly on my first read that I did not fully appreciate it.
*Spoilers follow*
Ethel and Annora could not be more different, but they are both incredible. They are not your typical "strong females" that you read in fantasy, who always end up training in some dark martial arts and kill all the bad guys in hand to hand combat at the end. They have a more realistic power, and to watch it grow (and shrink at times) is awesome.
Tallos and Cassen. These guys were dealt some serious blows, and the way they respond is exactly what I want to see in fantasy. Calling it gritty doesn't quite cut it here. This is raw, gut-wrenching realism at its finest. M. D. Ireman has created two of the most complex characters I've ever read in these. I am afraid of what they may do next.
Titon and Decker, the sons of Titon, are also great, though neither shines as much as the others just yet. With the epic change that young Titon has undergone, however, I see some great things in his future. And who knows what Decker will end up doing with his new toy.
Last, but not least, Titon and Keethro. These guys provided the hero component that I love in fantasy, but these heroes are simply more real. Often at odds with each other (from Keethro's perspective), they provide incredible tension, not to mention heartbreak. What happened to Keethro at the end, and the way he has misunderstood things makes me cringe. I need book 2 to see how that turns out, but I fear the worst for him.
Did I already say last? Because there was another chapter at the end of the book that wasn't there the first time I read it (an update was available for it under "manage devices and content") called The Gazer. The identity of this powerful character is revealed, and it's just a completely unexpected twist. I really, really wonder what it is that she feels she must hide from her husband. I've lost sleep over it.
*BIG spoilers follow here*
Some other things that I thought were cool, and wonder about:
-Why does Griss hate Decker and Titon so much? I think he's the son of the guy big Titon killed when he took Elise.
-Did Titon ever cheat on Elise or not? The Gazer chapter makes it seem like he's beyond reproach. Does The Gazer see everything he does, or just when she happens to be gazing? Perhaps she doesn't have the full story. I think he's faithful though, and Red is Keethro's.
-Why did Tallos's flame not harm that couple? And was it the same reason as why Sture couldn't hurt Toblin, but he could hurt Annora? I think the way to circumvent contravention is to be touching the person. It makes sense in all scenarios as far as I can tell.
-Did Eaira have anything to do with what happened in the throne room, or was that all Cassen?
-Are we supposed to think Crella escaped, or that she ended up going north with Warin?
And Veront better keep up his end of the deal, or I'm going to be pissed. But that doesn't seem likely.
That's all from me until Book 2 comes. I cannot wait.
June 7, 2020
"Never underestimate your children’s capacity for impudence, should you ever have any."
Source: Iryna Kuznetsova | Dreamstime.com
This is one fucked up novel! Borderline frustrating yet highly imaginative and creative. There are multiple perspectives from various characters. At least, sixteen of them! All of them have multiple layers. One cannot figure whether they are good or evil. One can at least fathom that they are humane. I have liked Cassen and Titon the senior. However, my favorite is Tallos. Yet, there is less and less of him and Decker as the book progresses.
“I am no champion of the concept of fairness,” he continued. “For I have learned that everyone receives exactly that which they have earned—no more and no less.”
Now, I will come to the plot. It is complex. Yet there are some elements which are quite known to me. For example, brave northman, a power hungry eunuch, crazy prince, arrogant princess and loads and loads of political drama. Do you remember?
But still, the story line has it's own twists and turns which is commendable. A good but challenging read!
"I am humble enough to know humility is not among my stronger virtues."
Source: Iryna Kuznetsova | Dreamstime.com
This is one fucked up novel! Borderline frustrating yet highly imaginative and creative. There are multiple perspectives from various characters. At least, sixteen of them! All of them have multiple layers. One cannot figure whether they are good or evil. One can at least fathom that they are humane. I have liked Cassen and Titon the senior. However, my favorite is Tallos. Yet, there is less and less of him and Decker as the book progresses.
“I am no champion of the concept of fairness,” he continued. “For I have learned that everyone receives exactly that which they have earned—no more and no less.”
Now, I will come to the plot. It is complex. Yet there are some elements which are quite known to me. For example, brave northman, a power hungry eunuch, crazy prince, arrogant princess and loads and loads of political drama. Do you remember?
But still, the story line has it's own twists and turns which is commendable. A good but challenging read!
"I am humble enough to know humility is not among my stronger virtues."
January 23, 2017
I enjoyed this book a lot. What's really sad is that I almost didn't pick it up because of some of the scathing reviews. What's really upsetting is that many of the terrible reviews are pathetic - obnoxious people being pretentious and overboard on their criticism.
Shame on me for getting caught up in the few bad reviews, but I actually expected this book to be terrible. The title isn't very clever, it took a little bit to get into the story, and the story hopped around so much that it was difficult to connect with the characters at first. However...
The book was overall enjoyable to read. Not on my top list or anything, but a fun read. I'm definitely intrigued in the story and will buy the second book when it comes out.
Sorry for the dickheads, M.D.
Shame on me for getting caught up in the few bad reviews, but I actually expected this book to be terrible. The title isn't very clever, it took a little bit to get into the story, and the story hopped around so much that it was difficult to connect with the characters at first. However...
The book was overall enjoyable to read. Not on my top list or anything, but a fun read. I'm definitely intrigued in the story and will buy the second book when it comes out.
Sorry for the dickheads, M.D.
September 14, 2016
I have been waiting for the next author who has been influenced by George RR Martin and Steven Erikson. This book, first self published but now picked up, has that influence. Some parts dragged being the first book in series, that is sometimes normal for book ones. There is enough there to expect the writing to get stronger.
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