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Thessaly #3
Necessity
Necessity: the sequel to the acclaimed The Just City and The Philosopher Kings, Jo Walton's tales of gods, humans, and what they have to learn from one another.
More than 65 years ago, Pallas Athena founded the Just City on an island in the Eastern Mediterranean, placing it centuries before the Trojan War, populating it with teachers and children from throughout human history and committing it to building a society based on the principles of Plato's Republic. Among the city's children was Pytheas, secretly the god Apollo in human form.
Sixty years ago the Just City schismed into five cities, each devoted to a different version of the original vision. Forty years ago the five cities managed to bring their squabbles to a close. But in consequence of their struggle, their existence finally came to the attention of Zeus, who can't allow them to remain in deep antiquity, changing the course of human history. Convinced by Apollo to spare the cities, Zeus instead moved everything on the island to the planet Plato, circling its own distant sun.
Now, more than a generation has passed. The cities are flourishing on Plato and even trading with multiple alien species. Then, on the same day, two things happen. Pytheas dies as a human, returning immediately as Apollo in his full glory. And there's suddenly a human ship in orbit around Plato - a ship from Earth.
©2016 Jo Walton (P)2016 Audible, Inc.
More than 65 years ago, Pallas Athena founded the Just City on an island in the Eastern Mediterranean, placing it centuries before the Trojan War, populating it with teachers and children from throughout human history and committing it to building a society based on the principles of Plato's Republic. Among the city's children was Pytheas, secretly the god Apollo in human form.
Sixty years ago the Just City schismed into five cities, each devoted to a different version of the original vision. Forty years ago the five cities managed to bring their squabbles to a close. But in consequence of their struggle, their existence finally came to the attention of Zeus, who can't allow them to remain in deep antiquity, changing the course of human history. Convinced by Apollo to spare the cities, Zeus instead moved everything on the island to the planet Plato, circling its own distant sun.
Now, more than a generation has passed. The cities are flourishing on Plato and even trading with multiple alien species. Then, on the same day, two things happen. Pytheas dies as a human, returning immediately as Apollo in his full glory. And there's suddenly a human ship in orbit around Plato - a ship from Earth.
©2016 Jo Walton (P)2016 Audible, Inc.
11 pages, Audible Audio
First published July 12, 2016
62 people are currently reading
2034 people want to read
About the author
Jo Walton
84 books3,076 followersJo Walton writes science fiction and fantasy novels and reads a lot and eats great food. It worries her slightly that this is so exactly what she always wanted to do when she grew up. She comes from Wales, but lives in Montreal.
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September 8, 2016This was a fitting conclusion to a series that is unlike anything else in science fiction, and I'm so glad that I listened to the audiobook rather than reading it. (Not that I'm going to not read it. When I get a copy, that will probably spark my third reread of the previous books, and this one again.)
Two reasons why I loved hearing this book instead of reading it: I loved the narrator, whose accents and emotional colorations added a dimension that I hadn't expected. The second reason is that listening to it gave me the opportunity to think about the many philosophical conversations in the book, whereas I read so fast that I tend to blaze right through such discussions. Not that there are that many in SF; at least, the books I tend to come across seem to feature more authorial instruction on the part of protagonist, with straw men opponents and everybody else agreeing like a row of bobble-head dolls.
At first it might seem that everyone was agreeing here, but that is not true. Athena and Pythias/Apollo dispute to the last page, and on several levels. So, too, do others, but the thing is that they enjoy disputation, testing ideas against one another, instead of going to war, either personal or en mass.
If the first book was about daring and experimentation, the second could be said to be about vengeance and family. Daring and vengeance provide plenty of plot motivation by their very nature. This third book could be said to be about consequences and love. 'Consequences' is not your obviously plot motivator, though it is a very strong motivation if you find the characters interesting.
The book shifts back and forth in time, which underscores the eponymous Necessity. There is plenty of discussion of what that means, which brings us right back around to consequences. I appreciated the fact that though the shifts back and forth in time included the characters's lives I as reader was always thoroughly anchored in the "when" of the quest, meaning establishing who knew what when, and who had to keep silence because of the requirements of Necessity. (It was also cool seeing the increasing burden on Necessity on a very interesting trickster god.)
Looked at another way, I think of the first book as Simmea's book, the second as Apollo's, and this third one as Krocus's book. Not that Simmea is ever forgotten, or that Apollo/Pytheas isn't a major character in all three. Central is a bit of a mystery: Athena's disappearance. Where she went, why, and how she was found leads to one of the loveliest bits in all three books--I had to listen to it a couple of times because I kept tearing up as the imagery took me right out of the words into a brilliant head space. I had to go back and anchor myself, listening to the actual words. And hearing Krocus's sense of wonder underscoring my wonder just made things that much better.
All three books had quests: the first was the experiment of the city, the second Pythias's journey, ostensibly to find the missing art and ship, but to get vengeance, and this one was the search for Athena back and forth through time and space, allowing us to shift magnificently to a variety of scenes, involving Sokrates, Kebes again for a riveting chapter, Krocus as POV, and of course Apollo.
Such a beautiful book, and guided skillfully to a place of excellence before letting us go.
Two reasons why I loved hearing this book instead of reading it: I loved the narrator, whose accents and emotional colorations added a dimension that I hadn't expected. The second reason is that listening to it gave me the opportunity to think about the many philosophical conversations in the book, whereas I read so fast that I tend to blaze right through such discussions. Not that there are that many in SF; at least, the books I tend to come across seem to feature more authorial instruction on the part of protagonist, with straw men opponents and everybody else agreeing like a row of bobble-head dolls.
At first it might seem that everyone was agreeing here, but that is not true. Athena and Pythias/Apollo dispute to the last page, and on several levels. So, too, do others, but the thing is that they enjoy disputation, testing ideas against one another, instead of going to war, either personal or en mass.
If the first book was about daring and experimentation, the second could be said to be about vengeance and family. Daring and vengeance provide plenty of plot motivation by their very nature. This third book could be said to be about consequences and love. 'Consequences' is not your obviously plot motivator, though it is a very strong motivation if you find the characters interesting.
The book shifts back and forth in time, which underscores the eponymous Necessity. There is plenty of discussion of what that means, which brings us right back around to consequences. I appreciated the fact that though the shifts back and forth in time included the characters's lives I as reader was always thoroughly anchored in the "when" of the quest, meaning establishing who knew what when, and who had to keep silence because of the requirements of Necessity. (It was also cool seeing the increasing burden on Necessity on a very interesting trickster god.)
Looked at another way, I think of the first book as Simmea's book, the second as Apollo's, and this third one as Krocus's book. Not that Simmea is ever forgotten, or that Apollo/Pytheas isn't a major character in all three. Central is a bit of a mystery: Athena's disappearance. Where she went, why, and how she was found leads to one of the loveliest bits in all three books--I had to listen to it a couple of times because I kept tearing up as the imagery took me right out of the words into a brilliant head space. I had to go back and anchor myself, listening to the actual words. And hearing Krocus's sense of wonder underscoring my wonder just made things that much better.
All three books had quests: the first was the experiment of the city, the second Pythias's journey, ostensibly to find the missing art and ship, but to get vengeance, and this one was the search for Athena back and forth through time and space, allowing us to shift magnificently to a variety of scenes, involving Sokrates, Kebes again for a riveting chapter, Krocus as POV, and of course Apollo.
Such a beautiful book, and guided skillfully to a place of excellence before letting us go.
September 22, 2016
Athena and Apollo created an experimental city designed to create a perfect version of Plato's Republic. In the first book of the series, the denizens of this Bronze Age city debated with Athena and decided to change some of the rules; those who disagreed left to found their own cities. In the second book, the cities began to war with each other, until at last Zeus intervened and moved them to an alien planet thousands of years in the future, where they could freely create without troubling about altering human history. Now in the third book, the next generation has made a stable life for themselves on this cold planet, where they comfortably live amongst aliens and self-aware robots and yet retain many of the trappings of their Plato-based origins. When this book begins, the first spaceship of humans (those who weren't part of the experiment and catapulted into the future, but rather lived through our own history) approaches the planet Plato and makes contact.
I love the premise of this book. I love so many of the ideas it brings up. My problem was that I wanted the story of what life was like for these Bronze-age descendants living on an alien planet but still listening to lyre music and with only the barest scientific knowledge. I wanted to see contact between "normal" humans and those who lived through this experiment. I wanted to know way more about the aliens who chose to join the Plato's Republic experiment. But instead of any of these stories, we get a treasure hunt through time points on Earth, where a god and a human or two pop in, talk to some minor historical personage, get the necessary clue from them, and pop out. Much of the book passes this way, all to get basically a map to where Athena is so Apollo and friends can save her. Or there are all these plot contrivances to bring the characters to a point where creating a pod (basically an alien form of family that is made of exactly 5 people) is the logical solution, so they do so despite being 2 god-descendants, a normal human, an alien and Sokrates reborn, which shocks everyone. Yet...this new configuration doesn't seem to mean anything. It doesn't actually feel like a poly arrangement of 5 adults, it feels like random people thrown together who are kinda fine with it all and just like raising children together.
And speaking of Sokrates, he's back and I'm pissed about it. About half this book feels like characters explaining things to Sokrates, and him saying wise or rebellious things back to them. It's time for other characters to get to be interesting and philosophical! Let Crocus (the machine who came to consciousness by listening in on people learning about Plato) tell more of the story! Or one of the aliens who chose to live on Plato! Or one of the descendants of Apollo who are living on a strange new world! Or like...literally anyone else. Not only does Sokrates come back, but so does Apollo, Athena, Kebes, Ikarus... It felt like a maudlin farewell tour, and it would've worked better for me if I didn't already feel like they'd had full, satisfying character arcs and I was done with them already. And we don't get to see how the Just City has developed over time, or what (if anything) they've learned from aliens or the sentient robots. The denizens of the Just City, btw, are incredibly incurious. They seem so satisfied and content and secure in the way their society works that when humans from their future contact them, they don't even care about how humanity has developed or what's gone on on Earth for the last few thousands of years. Instead they have meeting after meeting about whether or not to lie about the fact that Greek gods exist. They don't seem to have delved at all into the alien races' beliefs, worldviews, or knowledge either. They just assume everyone wants to know allllll about Plato, and don't bother asking questions of anyone else.
Basically, this was ambitious and interesting, but completely unsatisfying to me as an actual novel.
I love the premise of this book. I love so many of the ideas it brings up. My problem was that I wanted the story of what life was like for these Bronze-age descendants living on an alien planet but still listening to lyre music and with only the barest scientific knowledge. I wanted to see contact between "normal" humans and those who lived through this experiment. I wanted to know way more about the aliens who chose to join the Plato's Republic experiment. But instead of any of these stories, we get a treasure hunt through time points on Earth, where a god and a human or two pop in, talk to some minor historical personage, get the necessary clue from them, and pop out. Much of the book passes this way, all to get basically a map to where Athena is so Apollo and friends can save her. Or there are all these plot contrivances to bring the characters to a point where creating a pod (basically an alien form of family that is made of exactly 5 people) is the logical solution, so they do so despite being 2 god-descendants, a normal human, an alien and Sokrates reborn, which shocks everyone. Yet...this new configuration doesn't seem to mean anything. It doesn't actually feel like a poly arrangement of 5 adults, it feels like random people thrown together who are kinda fine with it all and just like raising children together.
And speaking of Sokrates, he's back and I'm pissed about it. About half this book feels like characters explaining things to Sokrates, and him saying wise or rebellious things back to them. It's time for other characters to get to be interesting and philosophical! Let Crocus (the machine who came to consciousness by listening in on people learning about Plato) tell more of the story! Or one of the aliens who chose to live on Plato! Or one of the descendants of Apollo who are living on a strange new world! Or like...literally anyone else. Not only does Sokrates come back, but so does Apollo, Athena, Kebes, Ikarus... It felt like a maudlin farewell tour, and it would've worked better for me if I didn't already feel like they'd had full, satisfying character arcs and I was done with them already. And we don't get to see how the Just City has developed over time, or what (if anything) they've learned from aliens or the sentient robots. The denizens of the Just City, btw, are incredibly incurious. They seem so satisfied and content and secure in the way their society works that when humans from their future contact them, they don't even care about how humanity has developed or what's gone on on Earth for the last few thousands of years. Instead they have meeting after meeting about whether or not to lie about the fact that Greek gods exist. They don't seem to have delved at all into the alien races' beliefs, worldviews, or knowledge either. They just assume everyone wants to know allllll about Plato, and don't bother asking questions of anyone else.
Basically, this was ambitious and interesting, but completely unsatisfying to me as an actual novel.
April 21, 2020
This was a great albeit unexpected ending. The book more or less begins with an event that is set up like it will be the center piece of the book, but then it just never happens. Instead our beloved characters go on a scavenger hunt to find Athena who managed to get herself lost outside of time.
If I now think about it this makes for an uneven pacing of the story. But while I was listening to it I didn’t even register that fact. The tone is much more jauntily than in the first two books with a lot of humorous comments that provided an easy feeling.
The principle of Plato’s republic is extended to outer space and we meet alien gods with their own agenda. While everything is more on the crazy side there still is the beautiful philosophical musing I so love in this series. The POVs of Crocus provide an outside view on Plato’s premises which I enjoyed a lot. Walton managed to write them in the spirit of the philospher.
And in the end the question is answered if it is possible to live the perfect Just City.
Jo Walton’s Thessaly trilogy is an ambitious untertaking to incorporate Plato’s work into a Fantasy novel. For me she succeeded masterfully here. I’m only a layman where Greek philosphy is concerned but on this level it totally worked. This trilogy gave me much to think about and made it clear that I crave philosophy in my Fantasy/SF.
Now I have to try to find out if Walton wrote the poem with which one chapter starts herself or if it was a quote (since I listened to the audiobook I didn’t see any possible comments hereof). It was beautiful and reminded me of my favourite Byron poem.
If I now think about it this makes for an uneven pacing of the story. But while I was listening to it I didn’t even register that fact. The tone is much more jauntily than in the first two books with a lot of humorous comments that provided an easy feeling.
The principle of Plato’s republic is extended to outer space and we meet alien gods with their own agenda. While everything is more on the crazy side there still is the beautiful philosophical musing I so love in this series. The POVs of Crocus provide an outside view on Plato’s premises which I enjoyed a lot. Walton managed to write them in the spirit of the philospher.
And in the end the question is answered if it is possible to live the perfect Just City.
Jo Walton’s Thessaly trilogy is an ambitious untertaking to incorporate Plato’s work into a Fantasy novel. For me she succeeded masterfully here. I’m only a layman where Greek philosphy is concerned but on this level it totally worked. This trilogy gave me much to think about and made it clear that I crave philosophy in my Fantasy/SF.
Now I have to try to find out if Walton wrote the poem with which one chapter starts herself or if it was a quote (since I listened to the audiobook I didn’t see any possible comments hereof). It was beautiful and reminded me of my favourite Byron poem.
April 22, 2018
This is a really beautifully told trilogy, and the trilogy I’m giving 5 stars. It starts sort of slowly and without much action in The Just City, but ends on a high note with what is known as The Last Debate. It gives the reader lots of philosophical questions to consider. The action in The Philosopher Kings increases overall, but there are still plenty of philosophical questions to chew on.
We end here, with Necessity, which gives us almost nothing philosophical to consider, yet provides us with plenty of laugh out loud entertainment and an excellent conclusion to the overall story.
We get to meet some new characters and we are reacquainted with some old ones. Apollo is our constant of course. Then we have Crocus, who finally gets to tell us his side of the story. I wasn’t head over heels in love with Crocus’s story, even though I adore him as a character, he just seemed disconnected from the action this go around. The same is true for our other POV character, Jason. He’s not a bad character, but he is a third party observer. He really has very little to do overall with the main plot lines of the book or the trilogy. I found myself questioning Walton’s choice to include them as POVs.
Lastly we have Marsilia, Simmea’s granddaughter. Her chapters were my favorite to read. The dynamics between her and her sister Thetis were very well done. Each having or being something the other sort of maybe desired but always ultimately loving to each other.
So what was it that held this back from being a 5 Star read? Well like I mentioned, I didn’t feel like two of the POVs were all that relevant. I wasn’t sure why we were being fed those stories. Crocus’s were sparse enough and gave enough insight to his part in the past 2 books that I didn’t mind their inclusion, but I really just felt like Jason was an odd choice. He even says at one point: I have no idea why I’m here. Well Jason, I don’t know either. Don’t get me wrong, I didn’t dislike him and I thought he was a well done character, but it was like he was included for the sake of having a narrator.
The second reason this wasn’t quite a 5 Star read was that the chapters are told “out of time”. We already know what’s happening or what to expect and then we cut to Marsilia who’s doing something with Hermes that earlier in the story seemed as if it was already done. It was just sort of confusing and jarring to follow.
Everything else I loved. The ending turned me into a crying mess because these characters just grew on me so much through out the trilogy.
These are fantastic, quick books that I would highly recommend to fans of both fantasy and science fiction (as it started in what felt like fantasy and ended firmly in the science fiction department).
We end here, with Necessity, which gives us almost nothing philosophical to consider, yet provides us with plenty of laugh out loud entertainment and an excellent conclusion to the overall story.
We get to meet some new characters and we are reacquainted with some old ones. Apollo is our constant of course. Then we have Crocus, who finally gets to tell us his side of the story. I wasn’t head over heels in love with Crocus’s story, even though I adore him as a character, he just seemed disconnected from the action this go around. The same is true for our other POV character, Jason. He’s not a bad character, but he is a third party observer. He really has very little to do overall with the main plot lines of the book or the trilogy. I found myself questioning Walton’s choice to include them as POVs.
Lastly we have Marsilia, Simmea’s granddaughter. Her chapters were my favorite to read. The dynamics between her and her sister Thetis were very well done. Each having or being something the other sort of maybe desired but always ultimately loving to each other.
So what was it that held this back from being a 5 Star read? Well like I mentioned, I didn’t feel like two of the POVs were all that relevant. I wasn’t sure why we were being fed those stories. Crocus’s were sparse enough and gave enough insight to his part in the past 2 books that I didn’t mind their inclusion, but I really just felt like Jason was an odd choice. He even says at one point: I have no idea why I’m here. Well Jason, I don’t know either. Don’t get me wrong, I didn’t dislike him and I thought he was a well done character, but it was like he was included for the sake of having a narrator.
The second reason this wasn’t quite a 5 Star read was that the chapters are told “out of time”. We already know what’s happening or what to expect and then we cut to Marsilia who’s doing something with Hermes that earlier in the story seemed as if it was already done. It was just sort of confusing and jarring to follow.
Everything else I loved. The ending turned me into a crying mess because these characters just grew on me so much through out the trilogy.
These are fantastic, quick books that I would highly recommend to fans of both fantasy and science fiction (as it started in what felt like fantasy and ended firmly in the science fiction department).
October 14, 2022
The first book in this trilogy was fun and thought-provoking, the second book a bit less so, though it still had its moments. As for the third, well…. I still liked the setting and characters, and was forewarned about most of the truly bizarre plot focus decisions, so I did more or less enjoy myself reading this. Nevertheless, if this book was the best Walton could do, this should have been a duology.
**Spoilers for the first two books below**
So, let’s say you’re writing a trilogy about time travelers trying to set up Plato’s Republic in the Bronze Age, and exploring how the Republic would work if attempted by real humans, over the course of decades. By the second book and thirty years in, they’re starting to tamper with history, so at the end, Zeus relocates them to a distant planet in the 25th century. What should the plot of the third book be?
a) Adjusting to life on a distant and inhospitable planet, complicated by the fact that most of the people involved are from long before the Space Age. How do they survive? How do they make sense of what happened? What about the fact that 7 of the cities are populated mostly by ancient Greek refugees who were never part of the original experiment, and have never been in touch with the other 5; how do all these communities work together, or not? What about the alien society living alongside them?
b) Recontact with mainstream human civilization. What has happened to humanity in the intervening centuries? What do people raised in a Platonic society think of 25th century humans, and how does contact change their society? What do mainstream humans think about the Platonists, and how does this discovery (and especially the society’s belief in the literal Greek gods) affect the rest of humanity? How will the Platonists deal with the fact that they know robots are sentient, and spacefaring humans don’t care?
c) Treasure hunt through Earth’s history to retrieve plot coupons to “rescue” the goddess Athena, who has apparently gotten “lost outside of time.” Drop in on some historical figures and characters from prior books. Spend most of the novel on this, though it has no particular sense of urgency and only two of the four point-of-view characters are even involved. The events of A and B can be alluded to in passing.
I’m sure you can guess, because I wouldn’t have included such a bizarre option otherwise, that Walton chose C.
So, most of the book is a plot tumor. It’s kind of fun, in its way—I enjoyed the historical Easter eggs—and had this been one of those “librarians adventure through time” series, it might have worked well. But it makes zero sense as the final volume of this trilogy, which has always been about the society and the thought experiment, not silly action stuff. (Okay, this plotline is too sedate to properly be called “action,” but we’re told the integrity of time itself is somehow threatened, so.) In that sense it’s wildly disappointing, because the more interesting and meaty issues are brushed aside. And the book is full of expository dialogue that mostly focuses on rehashing the prior two books, rather than answering the questions I had, like: how would human circadian rhythms function on a planet with 19-hour days? How do they breathe on a planet with no native plants? How do they have enough to eat when their primary food source is fish and only two of 12 cities are on the water, and what does everyone else do all day?
There are four point-of-view characters here, which I’d say is one too many (the one is Jason, a young fisherman who has nothing particular to do). Apollo is fun, as always. Crocus, the robot philosopher, is also an enjoyable POV; he has nothing to do with the plot, but he’s interesting and the plot sucks anyway, so that’s not a problem. I was of two minds about the final one, Marsilia. After two books that, like most fantasy, give the primary female roles to teenagers, it’s refreshing that she’s 35 and a mother and a political figure. But her story is unsatisfying, she doesn’t get to do much, for a philosopher she doesn’t seem to think things through , and there’s some totally unnecessary Not Like Other Girls. The differences between Marsilia and her sensitive sister Thetis are at least fairly well-drawn, but Walton also repeatedly makes the point that Marsilia and her mother don’t understand each other, without developing this at all. Marsilia’s mother is a ship captain. Marsilia loves being on the water so much that she’s taken a second job on a boat. It felt like Walton was just assuming that, Marsilia being a protagonist, obviously she would be left out of her mother and sister’s mutual understanding, that’s how female protagonists work amirite? But given the specifics of the actual three characters involved, this didn’t make sense to me at all. If we must have an odd one out here, it’s obviously Thetis.
Finally, the romantic resolution is really bizarre and unfortunate. Essentially, Walton contrives a plot situation forcing five characters—four humans and an alien—to declare their intention to form a “pod,” a type of plural marriage practiced by the aliens. Only the alien has expressed any interest in this whatsoever, the humans he has floated this to have firmly rejected the idea, but after the conversation in which they have to pretend it’s true, no one seems to want to back out, so they just…. all move in together? This is made even more unfortunate by the fact that the five people involved are It feels a bit like the whole trilogy, Walton has kind of wanted to explore marriages outside the dominant paradigm, but without ever actually exploring them, just throwing people into situations that sound like a terrible idea and informing us that this is a happy ending.
So in the end, while Walton is a perfectly decent writer and I wasn’t unhappy reading this, I have very little good to say about it and would not recommend. Just stop after the second book and imagine your own ending.
**Spoilers for the first two books below**
So, let’s say you’re writing a trilogy about time travelers trying to set up Plato’s Republic in the Bronze Age, and exploring how the Republic would work if attempted by real humans, over the course of decades. By the second book and thirty years in, they’re starting to tamper with history, so at the end, Zeus relocates them to a distant planet in the 25th century. What should the plot of the third book be?
a) Adjusting to life on a distant and inhospitable planet, complicated by the fact that most of the people involved are from long before the Space Age. How do they survive? How do they make sense of what happened? What about the fact that 7 of the cities are populated mostly by ancient Greek refugees who were never part of the original experiment, and have never been in touch with the other 5; how do all these communities work together, or not? What about the alien society living alongside them?
b) Recontact with mainstream human civilization. What has happened to humanity in the intervening centuries? What do people raised in a Platonic society think of 25th century humans, and how does contact change their society? What do mainstream humans think about the Platonists, and how does this discovery (and especially the society’s belief in the literal Greek gods) affect the rest of humanity? How will the Platonists deal with the fact that they know robots are sentient, and spacefaring humans don’t care?
c) Treasure hunt through Earth’s history to retrieve plot coupons to “rescue” the goddess Athena, who has apparently gotten “lost outside of time.” Drop in on some historical figures and characters from prior books. Spend most of the novel on this, though it has no particular sense of urgency and only two of the four point-of-view characters are even involved. The events of A and B can be alluded to in passing.
I’m sure you can guess, because I wouldn’t have included such a bizarre option otherwise, that Walton chose C.
So, most of the book is a plot tumor. It’s kind of fun, in its way—I enjoyed the historical Easter eggs—and had this been one of those “librarians adventure through time” series, it might have worked well. But it makes zero sense as the final volume of this trilogy, which has always been about the society and the thought experiment, not silly action stuff. (Okay, this plotline is too sedate to properly be called “action,” but we’re told the integrity of time itself is somehow threatened, so.) In that sense it’s wildly disappointing, because the more interesting and meaty issues are brushed aside. And the book is full of expository dialogue that mostly focuses on rehashing the prior two books, rather than answering the questions I had, like: how would human circadian rhythms function on a planet with 19-hour days? How do they breathe on a planet with no native plants? How do they have enough to eat when their primary food source is fish and only two of 12 cities are on the water, and what does everyone else do all day?
There are four point-of-view characters here, which I’d say is one too many (the one is Jason, a young fisherman who has nothing particular to do). Apollo is fun, as always. Crocus, the robot philosopher, is also an enjoyable POV; he has nothing to do with the plot, but he’s interesting and the plot sucks anyway, so that’s not a problem. I was of two minds about the final one, Marsilia. After two books that, like most fantasy, give the primary female roles to teenagers, it’s refreshing that she’s 35 and a mother and a political figure. But her story is unsatisfying, she doesn’t get to do much, for a philosopher she doesn’t seem to think things through , and there’s some totally unnecessary Not Like Other Girls. The differences between Marsilia and her sensitive sister Thetis are at least fairly well-drawn, but Walton also repeatedly makes the point that Marsilia and her mother don’t understand each other, without developing this at all. Marsilia’s mother is a ship captain. Marsilia loves being on the water so much that she’s taken a second job on a boat. It felt like Walton was just assuming that, Marsilia being a protagonist, obviously she would be left out of her mother and sister’s mutual understanding, that’s how female protagonists work amirite? But given the specifics of the actual three characters involved, this didn’t make sense to me at all. If we must have an odd one out here, it’s obviously Thetis.
Finally, the romantic resolution is really bizarre and unfortunate. Essentially, Walton contrives a plot situation forcing five characters—four humans and an alien—to declare their intention to form a “pod,” a type of plural marriage practiced by the aliens. Only the alien has expressed any interest in this whatsoever, the humans he has floated this to have firmly rejected the idea, but after the conversation in which they have to pretend it’s true, no one seems to want to back out, so they just…. all move in together? This is made even more unfortunate by the fact that the five people involved are It feels a bit like the whole trilogy, Walton has kind of wanted to explore marriages outside the dominant paradigm, but without ever actually exploring them, just throwing people into situations that sound like a terrible idea and informing us that this is a happy ending.
So in the end, while Walton is a perfectly decent writer and I wasn’t unhappy reading this, I have very little good to say about it and would not recommend. Just stop after the second book and imagine your own ending.
September 4, 2016
...On the whole, I don't think Walton finishes the trilogy as strong as she starts it. It is not a book that adds that much to her vision of Plato's republic. I enjoyed reading it quite a bit but not as much as the previous two volumes. As a whole, the trilogy is a work to remember though. Walton takes on complex subjects and ideas in these books and yet manages to keep them very accessible. I would not be surprised to see a few people pick up some of Plato's works (note that Walton does not recommend starting with The Republic). Walton pushes herself in these books but she also pushes speculative fiction as a whole in a new direction. There are not many authors that can claim to have done that. Maybe she falters slightly on the home stretch but it is still a noteworthy work of fiction. I recommend you read it.
Full Random Comments review
Full Random Comments review
August 7, 2016
Another superb novel by Jo Walton. I absolutely love this series that explores many science-fictional themes using the culture of classical Athens (the majority of the other SF novels about ancient Greek or Roman culture are really much more fantasy than science-fiction; see the recent Wolf's Empire: Gladiator). Walton manages to overcome the majority of the problems and creates, despite the presence of gods, a perfect science-fiction series (and of course that Socrates would've been an avid skier!).
July 28, 2016
And it was a sentimental fantasy, in the end. The last thing I expected from this intellectualized, consciously cerebral thing. Review to come on B&N in the next couple weeks.
August 21, 2016
Review from Tenacious Reader: http://www.tenaciousreader.com/2016/0...
3.5/5 stars
Necessity is the final book in the Thessaly trilogy by Jo Walton. As the story continues generations from the start of the series, we find the citizens doing very well, integrating themselves into the interstellar world. There are alien residents and traders visiting the planet. The individual cities seem to be thriving, and people are free to move wherever they feel best fits their personal ideology. It is utopia, finally (or at least much closer than they had achieved previously). But there are complications caused by a sudden death and then a nearing spaceship that will be their first interactions with space humans which kick our story for this final chapter in the series.
I have to say, my reading experience with this one was a little different than the first two. Both The Just City and Philosopher Kings seemed to create a more philosophical undertone to them that I just didn’t find in Necessity. The Just City really showed how rigid structure, even when it is with the best intentions, creates a new set of problems. It also explored what constitutes a thinking being, at what point does artificial intelligence become independent and an individual. Philosopher Kings took a strong look at forgiveness versus vengeance, we also got to see Pytheas come to terms a bit more with his mortal life versus being a god with his immortal life.
While Necessity did have some themes to it, I just felt it lacked the gravitas I found in the first two. There was the philosophical question of what the book called necessity, which in essence is avoiding paradox due to time travel. Since the gods don’t experience time in the same way as humans, this is particularly important for them as they hop around in the human timeline, they are bound to make sure certain things happen as to not change. It’s hard to give a good example without giving spoilers. But pretty much, they can be bound to do certain things based on a history that happened in the human timeline that perhaps hasn’t happened yet in their own timeline. And does this mean they are ruled by fate? Is avoiding paradox essentially being bound to a particular fate? There are some interesting questions, but honestly, I just was not as intrigued by it as the themes I found in the first two books.
Perhaps because I could see more real world applications for the first two books, where as until time travel becomes a real thing for humans, this one just felt less applicable. Although, for real world relevance, there are race relations, cultural differences and identities that all come in to play. They have to learn to be open and accepting of beings that are different from themselves, which is an excellent theme, but it wasn’t enough to capture me on the same level as the first two books.
Another thing that surprised me was how the trilogy wrapped up. I have conflicted feeling about it, feeling like it was a good ending, but maybe a bit too good, too tidy (I hate to say too happy, but I suppose maybe that is part of it as well). Honestly, I may look back later and decide I love the ending, it just ended with a different tone than I expected, which is not necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes it is nice for a series to throw a curve ball with the unexpected.
I have enjoyed Crocus as a character, but I was not always a fan of getting his point of view. Some of the chapters from this perspective I found a bit dry. Not all of them, there were some that actually read quite well, but a few just lacked enough personality to make the material feel like a story, it lacked the emotion that I found with the other perspectives.
But, don’t let all of that turn you off. There are some interesting new characters in here, there is an interesting story. I just couldn’t help but feel it did not have the same weight to it as the previous two books, and for that reason, it felt like it was missing something.
If you have read the first two, I do think this is still worth reading. If you haven’t, then don’t let my lower rating of this one deter you. The first one reads incredibly well as a stand alone (I had no idea it was going to be a series). and the second one is also a wonderful read.
3.5/5 stars
Necessity is the final book in the Thessaly trilogy by Jo Walton. As the story continues generations from the start of the series, we find the citizens doing very well, integrating themselves into the interstellar world. There are alien residents and traders visiting the planet. The individual cities seem to be thriving, and people are free to move wherever they feel best fits their personal ideology. It is utopia, finally (or at least much closer than they had achieved previously). But there are complications caused by a sudden death and then a nearing spaceship that will be their first interactions with space humans which kick our story for this final chapter in the series.
I have to say, my reading experience with this one was a little different than the first two. Both The Just City and Philosopher Kings seemed to create a more philosophical undertone to them that I just didn’t find in Necessity. The Just City really showed how rigid structure, even when it is with the best intentions, creates a new set of problems. It also explored what constitutes a thinking being, at what point does artificial intelligence become independent and an individual. Philosopher Kings took a strong look at forgiveness versus vengeance, we also got to see Pytheas come to terms a bit more with his mortal life versus being a god with his immortal life.
While Necessity did have some themes to it, I just felt it lacked the gravitas I found in the first two. There was the philosophical question of what the book called necessity, which in essence is avoiding paradox due to time travel. Since the gods don’t experience time in the same way as humans, this is particularly important for them as they hop around in the human timeline, they are bound to make sure certain things happen as to not change. It’s hard to give a good example without giving spoilers. But pretty much, they can be bound to do certain things based on a history that happened in the human timeline that perhaps hasn’t happened yet in their own timeline. And does this mean they are ruled by fate? Is avoiding paradox essentially being bound to a particular fate? There are some interesting questions, but honestly, I just was not as intrigued by it as the themes I found in the first two books.
Perhaps because I could see more real world applications for the first two books, where as until time travel becomes a real thing for humans, this one just felt less applicable. Although, for real world relevance, there are race relations, cultural differences and identities that all come in to play. They have to learn to be open and accepting of beings that are different from themselves, which is an excellent theme, but it wasn’t enough to capture me on the same level as the first two books.
Another thing that surprised me was how the trilogy wrapped up. I have conflicted feeling about it, feeling like it was a good ending, but maybe a bit too good, too tidy (I hate to say too happy, but I suppose maybe that is part of it as well). Honestly, I may look back later and decide I love the ending, it just ended with a different tone than I expected, which is not necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes it is nice for a series to throw a curve ball with the unexpected.
I have enjoyed Crocus as a character, but I was not always a fan of getting his point of view. Some of the chapters from this perspective I found a bit dry. Not all of them, there were some that actually read quite well, but a few just lacked enough personality to make the material feel like a story, it lacked the emotion that I found with the other perspectives.
But, don’t let all of that turn you off. There are some interesting new characters in here, there is an interesting story. I just couldn’t help but feel it did not have the same weight to it as the previous two books, and for that reason, it felt like it was missing something.
If you have read the first two, I do think this is still worth reading. If you haven’t, then don’t let my lower rating of this one deter you. The first one reads incredibly well as a stand alone (I had no idea it was going to be a series). and the second one is also a wonderful read.
October 23, 2016
This is the third and apparently final book in the Thessaly series by Jo Walton. I enjoyed the entire series, although I did think this book was a little weaker than the previous two.
When the book first began, I had the impression that the story would focus on something that seemed very interesting to me. Instead, that “something” made up only a small portion of the story because the main characters were caught up in other things that were going on. The actual story was interesting, and there were some great moments, but I was more interested in the story that wasn’t told.
Aside from that, I really don’t have much to say about this book that I haven’t already said about the previous two. This series told a story that was different from anything I’d ever read before, and I was surprised by how much I enjoyed it. I’ll have to try more of the author’s other books someday.
When the book first began, I had the impression that the story would focus on something that seemed very interesting to me. Instead, that “something” made up only a small portion of the story because the main characters were caught up in other things that were going on. The actual story was interesting, and there were some great moments, but I was more interested in the story that wasn’t told.
Aside from that, I really don’t have much to say about this book that I haven’t already said about the previous two. This series told a story that was different from anything I’d ever read before, and I was surprised by how much I enjoyed it. I’ll have to try more of the author’s other books someday.
August 3, 2016
This... is not the finale I was hoping for.
"The Just City" and "The Philosopher Kings" were remarkable books about how societies are built. About what one does when one feels, "No, society can be better than this," finds compatriots, and makes an honest, devoted attempt at it. About the problems and pitfalls societies face, how complexity and tension and differences mount inevitably, and, perhaps, how one can make the effort nonetheless.
I had expected "Necessity" to continue along these lines, to provide a crowning finale. It seemed poised to do so, with the society of Plato shifted from a temporary thought-experiment, divinely isolated from any interference, to suddenly becoming permenant, surviving into the far future, and being sure to re-encounter the rest of humanity, which they thought they had left behind. The society-builders were going to have to deal with other people's societies.
That seemed to be the set-up. "Other" humans initiated contact; new gods started taking an alarming interest in Plato; this seemed to be where the book was headed.
And then, about a quarter of the way in, the book swerves because the goddess Athene has gone "missing," "outside of time."
And the only way to rescue her is to collect clues she's left scattered across time.
That's right, friends. The last Thessaly book is a FedEx Quest. Collect enough plot coupons, as the Turkey City Lexicon puts it, and you get to send away to author for an ending.
And I'm basically going, "Ummmm, WHAT just happened?"
* * *
Don't get me wrong. There's a lot of fun stuff in this book. Great characters, fantastic moments, revisiting some previous points with a new twist, some really fun time travel. There's a lot to enjoy.
But the problem is, "Necessity" seems to feel that the Just City's work is complete.
They are now so awesome, they don't have any pressing problems. Society just works. Everybody's intelligent, cooperative, and generally happy. There are no pressing social issues. The aliens that seemed to be a huge new factor? They basically love us, come to learn from us (we don't need to learn anything from them) and we haven't had to adapt to their presence in any way whatsoever. The humans that this entire project was basically founded on getting away from? They're not an issue that merits any screen time; they'll probably just leave us alone.
And... without dealing with social issues... it feels like the book is avoiding everything I thought the series was about.
Honestly, I'm somewhat weirded out. It's hard for me to understand how Walton takes a series beginning with an amazing attempt to implement a utopia, and caps it off with a book that's mostly inventing increasingly arbitrary challenges and dangers for Greek gods.
* * *
All that being said, it's still a very entertaining read for those who have read the previous books in the series. There are a lot of great high points, including: The epilogue chapters are absolutely ebulliant, and cut to the heart of any fan who's read this far. The last lines, perhaps, give me as good an insight as any for what Walton's aiming at here:
---
Some more specific comments of mine, at specific points as I read, are under my review here.
"The Just City" and "The Philosopher Kings" were remarkable books about how societies are built. About what one does when one feels, "No, society can be better than this," finds compatriots, and makes an honest, devoted attempt at it. About the problems and pitfalls societies face, how complexity and tension and differences mount inevitably, and, perhaps, how one can make the effort nonetheless.
I had expected "Necessity" to continue along these lines, to provide a crowning finale. It seemed poised to do so, with the society of Plato shifted from a temporary thought-experiment, divinely isolated from any interference, to suddenly becoming permenant, surviving into the far future, and being sure to re-encounter the rest of humanity, which they thought they had left behind. The society-builders were going to have to deal with other people's societies.
That seemed to be the set-up. "Other" humans initiated contact; new gods started taking an alarming interest in Plato; this seemed to be where the book was headed.
And then, about a quarter of the way in, the book swerves because the goddess Athene has gone "missing," "outside of time."
And the only way to rescue her is to collect clues she's left scattered across time.
That's right, friends. The last Thessaly book is a FedEx Quest. Collect enough plot coupons, as the Turkey City Lexicon puts it, and you get to send away to author for an ending.
And I'm basically going, "Ummmm, WHAT just happened?"
* * *
Don't get me wrong. There's a lot of fun stuff in this book. Great characters, fantastic moments, revisiting some previous points with a new twist, some really fun time travel. There's a lot to enjoy.
But the problem is, "Necessity" seems to feel that the Just City's work is complete.
They are now so awesome, they don't have any pressing problems. Society just works. Everybody's intelligent, cooperative, and generally happy. There are no pressing social issues. The aliens that seemed to be a huge new factor? They basically love us, come to learn from us (we don't need to learn anything from them) and we haven't had to adapt to their presence in any way whatsoever. The humans that this entire project was basically founded on getting away from? They're not an issue that merits any screen time; they'll probably just leave us alone.
And... without dealing with social issues... it feels like the book is avoiding everything I thought the series was about.
Honestly, I'm somewhat weirded out. It's hard for me to understand how Walton takes a series beginning with an amazing attempt to implement a utopia, and caps it off with a book that's mostly inventing increasingly arbitrary challenges and dangers for Greek gods.
* * *
All that being said, it's still a very entertaining read for those who have read the previous books in the series. There are a lot of great high points, including: The epilogue chapters are absolutely ebulliant, and cut to the heart of any fan who's read this far. The last lines, perhaps, give me as good an insight as any for what Walton's aiming at here:
I ended the first volume with a moral, and the second with a deus ex machina. This third and final volume ends with hope, always the last thing to come out of any box.
---
Some more specific comments of mine, at specific points as I read, are under my review here.
August 22, 2016
I was so disappointed in this book. It was not the conclusion to the series I hoped for.
For one, the opportunity presented by reuniting with humanity was entirely overlooked: the novel appears to assume that of course Plato's culture will hold its own, that it has reached some kind of permanent maturity that will not be open to outside influence. We don't even see the two sets of humans interacting with each other; they don't even meet until the last page.
For another, this assumption appears to be entirely based on Walton's own personal belief that the Just City is some kind of pinnacle of human achievement that, if it were ever tried, would lead to the ultimate happiness and justice for all people. But for the love of god. That's just dumb. The idea's been around for thousands of years; people have had plenty of time to try it out. It doesn't work because it takes no account of human nature, and not just in the ways that Walton noted and addressed in the first two books of the series: no one likes to be assigned a class at some arbitrary point and then to have one's opportunities restricted to that class. As soon as the Plato-born Irons come into contact with societies where you can reinvent yourself throughout life and continue to advance, the entire Plato system will collapse. But we don't get to see this, because Walton has apparently decided it isn't going to happen, because the class-assigners on Plato are such perfect Philosophers that they never make a mistake.
Also, too much of it reads like an exposition of Walton's own theological and philosophical ideas. NONE of the major characters disagree with each other on anything really important. Their "debates" in this novel are all trivial, superficial, and frankly smug.
But most importantly, it is dull. Dull dull dull. Too much of the book is people sitting around talking to each other about philosophy; there is no real tension in the plot as Necessity, introduced early on, guarantees the ending. Athena goes missing; she leaves clues, they walk around leisurely and collect clues, put them together, find out where she is; they go, see her, chat, and bring her back; then at the end they meet regular humans but that's no biggie because of course they won't be a threat to Plato's society ...
It read like a philosophical treatise as opposed to a novel. It read like a religious apologia, like CS Lewis's Pilgrim's Regress rather than his Narnia chronicles.
Still enjoy the first two books, but they both deserve a better ending.
For one, the opportunity presented by reuniting with humanity was entirely overlooked: the novel appears to assume that of course Plato's culture will hold its own, that it has reached some kind of permanent maturity that will not be open to outside influence. We don't even see the two sets of humans interacting with each other; they don't even meet until the last page.
For another, this assumption appears to be entirely based on Walton's own personal belief that the Just City is some kind of pinnacle of human achievement that, if it were ever tried, would lead to the ultimate happiness and justice for all people. But for the love of god. That's just dumb. The idea's been around for thousands of years; people have had plenty of time to try it out. It doesn't work because it takes no account of human nature, and not just in the ways that Walton noted and addressed in the first two books of the series: no one likes to be assigned a class at some arbitrary point and then to have one's opportunities restricted to that class. As soon as the Plato-born Irons come into contact with societies where you can reinvent yourself throughout life and continue to advance, the entire Plato system will collapse. But we don't get to see this, because Walton has apparently decided it isn't going to happen, because the class-assigners on Plato are such perfect Philosophers that they never make a mistake.
Also, too much of it reads like an exposition of Walton's own theological and philosophical ideas. NONE of the major characters disagree with each other on anything really important. Their "debates" in this novel are all trivial, superficial, and frankly smug.
But most importantly, it is dull. Dull dull dull. Too much of the book is people sitting around talking to each other about philosophy; there is no real tension in the plot as Necessity, introduced early on, guarantees the ending. Athena goes missing; she leaves clues, they walk around leisurely and collect clues, put them together, find out where she is; they go, see her, chat, and bring her back; then at the end they meet regular humans but that's no biggie because of course they won't be a threat to Plato's society ...
It read like a philosophical treatise as opposed to a novel. It read like a religious apologia, like CS Lewis's Pilgrim's Regress rather than his Narnia chronicles.
Still enjoy the first two books, but they both deserve a better ending.
September 29, 2016
Jo Walton's Thessaly series is brilliant. If you've ever read Plato, you should enjoy it.
The basic premise is that the goddess Athene lets mortals create a city based on Plato's Republic. The first volume, The Just City, thrilled me, partly because Socrates appears and questions everything.
The second volume, The Philosopher Kings, was also very good, but lacked the presence of Socrates.
Socrates shows up again in Necessity and shines again. A world without Socratic questioning is not worth having.
Walton's writing is excellent.
Read of mortals who want to be philosophers and gods and goddesses who both help and challenge them. Can you resist that lure?
The basic premise is that the goddess Athene lets mortals create a city based on Plato's Republic. The first volume, The Just City, thrilled me, partly because Socrates appears and questions everything.
The second volume, The Philosopher Kings, was also very good, but lacked the presence of Socrates.
Socrates shows up again in Necessity and shines again. A world without Socratic questioning is not worth having.
Walton's writing is excellent.
Read of mortals who want to be philosophers and gods and goddesses who both help and challenge them. Can you resist that lure?
September 23, 2016
(For another version of this and other reviews, see my blog: http://examinedworlds.blogspot.com/20...).
As a science fiction fan and philosophy professor who teaches Plato's Republic somewhat regularly, these books are right up my alley. I really enjoyed the first two (see my previous reviews: http://examinedworlds.blogspot.com/20... and http://examinedworlds.blogspot.com/20...). I was lucky enough to meet Walton as a book signing recently, where I told her that as a philosopher, I approve of this series.
I continued to love the philosophical aspects of this third book in the series (especially with Crocus the Worker!). While I really liked the ending, I found a lot of the plot of this one to be a bit meandering and sometimes difficult to follow.
The philosophical questions here come up around Crocus the robot philosopher and to some extent around concepts of time and determinism (or Necessity as they case may be). The latter questions are interesting enough (although they are elaborated a bit too mythologically and hazily for my tastes), but the questions surrounding Crocus are most interesting.
These mostly come up in Crocus's excellent POV chapters, which totally made the book for me. Can a robot be a philosopher? Do robots have souls? (In this universe it is established by the gods that humans have souls, so this is a somewhat more pointed question than it is here in the real world where matters concerning souls are equally unclear for everyone). Would Plato's Republic work as a city if all the citizens were robots? Is it our human emotions and sexual desires that make Plato's perfectly rational city elusive for us?
Walton raised a lot of excellent questions about the idea of the Republic in the first book, especially when it came to issues of gender and sexuality. The second book was more focused on whether philosophers, even those fully trained in the city, would agree enough to maintain a single city (spoiler: no). I think Walton does a great job of dramatizing some of the more serious critiques of Plato's Republic. She also raises the issue of whether it's meant as a serious political theory (I tend to say it's not).
This third book is a bit less focused on whether the Republic is feasible. It takes place decades after the previous installment when all the cities are more-or-less stable and ... well, I guess I'll have to write the rest of this review with a heavy spoiler alert!
As a science fiction fan and philosophy professor who teaches Plato's Republic somewhat regularly, these books are right up my alley. I really enjoyed the first two (see my previous reviews: http://examinedworlds.blogspot.com/20... and http://examinedworlds.blogspot.com/20...). I was lucky enough to meet Walton as a book signing recently, where I told her that as a philosopher, I approve of this series.
I continued to love the philosophical aspects of this third book in the series (especially with Crocus the Worker!). While I really liked the ending, I found a lot of the plot of this one to be a bit meandering and sometimes difficult to follow.
The philosophical questions here come up around Crocus the robot philosopher and to some extent around concepts of time and determinism (or Necessity as they case may be). The latter questions are interesting enough (although they are elaborated a bit too mythologically and hazily for my tastes), but the questions surrounding Crocus are most interesting.
These mostly come up in Crocus's excellent POV chapters, which totally made the book for me. Can a robot be a philosopher? Do robots have souls? (In this universe it is established by the gods that humans have souls, so this is a somewhat more pointed question than it is here in the real world where matters concerning souls are equally unclear for everyone). Would Plato's Republic work as a city if all the citizens were robots? Is it our human emotions and sexual desires that make Plato's perfectly rational city elusive for us?
Walton raised a lot of excellent questions about the idea of the Republic in the first book, especially when it came to issues of gender and sexuality. The second book was more focused on whether philosophers, even those fully trained in the city, would agree enough to maintain a single city (spoiler: no). I think Walton does a great job of dramatizing some of the more serious critiques of Plato's Republic. She also raises the issue of whether it's meant as a serious political theory (I tend to say it's not).
This third book is a bit less focused on whether the Republic is feasible. It takes place decades after the previous installment when all the cities are more-or-less stable and ... well, I guess I'll have to write the rest of this review with a heavy spoiler alert!
April 6, 2017
I love each book in the series wholeheartedly, though each in a different way. I don't even want to review these books in more detail, because you just have to experience them for yourself.
Going to work on some pieces inspired by the book--here's the first:
Going to work on some pieces inspired by the book--here's the first:
July 17, 2016
Greek gods in space. GREEK GODS IN SPACE. GREEK GODS IN SPACE AND TIME GONE WIBBLY WOBBLY AND ALSO ALIEN GODS AND PHILOSOPHY AND SCIENCE EEEEEEEEEEEEE!!
Needless to say this was lovely and I want to make time to reread the whole series all at one go so I can fully appreciate how well all the little bits of story meet up.
Needless to say this was lovely and I want to make time to reread the whole series all at one go so I can fully appreciate how well all the little bits of story meet up.
November 5, 2019
It was oddly difficult to find a copy of ‘Necessity’, as the library didn’t have it (despite helpfully providing the first two books), bookshops only had the whole trilogy in a single volume, and the copy I bought off eBay got lost in the post and the seller had to send another. I’m pleased to say that it was worth the wait. I’ve heard Jo Walton speak at a couple of events, including one with Ada Palmer. The two are evidently friends and ‘Necessity’ is dedicated to Palmer. However it was only in this final book of the trilogy that the affinities between their writing became clear to me. Ada Palmer’s 'Terra Ignota' series (which starts with Too Like the Lightning) and the Just City trilogy form a fascinating set of thoughtful, dialogue-heavy utopian novels exploring ideas from classical philosophy of living a good life. Both are more interested in re-examining concepts from classic literature in new contexts than focusing on technology. Thus I classify the Just city novels as fantasy rather than sci-fi, although an argument could be made for either. I find both series refreshing and invigorating, as they both write with a hopeful, energetic tone. Walton’s writing is rather more accessible; Palmer tends to be more mannered, erudite, and sometimes obscure. I very much enjoyed the Just City trilogy despite not having read Plato’s The Republic, other than some extracts in a book about utopias.
‘Necessity’ is a very satisfying conclusion to the series and was easy to keep up with despite having read the previous book more than three years ago. The narrative jumps forward a generation in the community of Platonian cities now located on an alien planet. It begins as two dramatic events occur simultaneously: the human embodiment of Apollo dies, returning to his god form, and a human spaceship arrives. Based on my general experience of sci-fi, I anticipated some conflict between the Platonian humans and their visitors. However I was mistaken. Instead a mystery plot ensues, with a beautifully structured time-travelling heist (which is explained much better than the one in Endgame, incidentally). As in the rest of the trilogy, events are narrated from a fascinating range of perspectives. Aliens, gods, AIs, and humans from across history debate questions of theology, politics, and philosophy, a very tricky feat that Walton pulls off with skill and aplomb.
Both Walton and Palmer have great faith that intellectual curiosity can bridge vast gaps in experience, background, culture and understanding. This conviction is heartening and gives the novels their utopian vigor, on top of the fact that their settings are all postcapitalist. The depiction of unconventional loving families was likewise delightful. Palmer and Walton also both engage with gods and godhood in original and interesting ways. The cultural variation in perceptions of gods is addressed cleverly in ‘Necessity’. Gods are amongst the main characters, as in the previous two volumes. Here, though, the difference between most of the pantheon and Zeus is explored in more depth. Zeus is apparently the ultimate deity, able to perceive everything but not simultaneously aware of everything. His intervention therefore seems to depend on attention and interest, which is perhaps split across the whole universe? Apollo and Athene are powerful yet limited by comparison, in both abilities and understanding.
A central message of the trilogy seems to be the importance of abstract beliefs in providing meaning to daily life. It’s easy for the Platonians to believe in their gods, as they are present and meddling in events. Despite their caprices, overall their Just City experiment clearly has positive outcomes. It’s an interesting example of a utopia from above: the Just City and its successors could not have been established and sustained without the gods, although the concept came from Plato. Human ideas manifested through divine intervention. Interpreted literally, this suggests we should pray to our local deities for a better world in which we can become our best selves. Mainly, though, the series is a fascinating and humane thought experiment full of engaging characters and intelligent dialogue. I’ve never read anything else quite like it. For all the thematic similarities, Palmer’s books are a totally different yet complementary experience.
‘Necessity’ is a very satisfying conclusion to the series and was easy to keep up with despite having read the previous book more than three years ago. The narrative jumps forward a generation in the community of Platonian cities now located on an alien planet. It begins as two dramatic events occur simultaneously: the human embodiment of Apollo dies, returning to his god form, and a human spaceship arrives. Based on my general experience of sci-fi, I anticipated some conflict between the Platonian humans and their visitors. However I was mistaken. Instead a mystery plot ensues, with a beautifully structured time-travelling heist (which is explained much better than the one in Endgame, incidentally). As in the rest of the trilogy, events are narrated from a fascinating range of perspectives. Aliens, gods, AIs, and humans from across history debate questions of theology, politics, and philosophy, a very tricky feat that Walton pulls off with skill and aplomb.
Both Walton and Palmer have great faith that intellectual curiosity can bridge vast gaps in experience, background, culture and understanding. This conviction is heartening and gives the novels their utopian vigor, on top of the fact that their settings are all postcapitalist. The depiction of unconventional loving families was likewise delightful. Palmer and Walton also both engage with gods and godhood in original and interesting ways. The cultural variation in perceptions of gods is addressed cleverly in ‘Necessity’. Gods are amongst the main characters, as in the previous two volumes. Here, though, the difference between most of the pantheon and Zeus is explored in more depth. Zeus is apparently the ultimate deity, able to perceive everything but not simultaneously aware of everything. His intervention therefore seems to depend on attention and interest, which is perhaps split across the whole universe? Apollo and Athene are powerful yet limited by comparison, in both abilities and understanding.
A central message of the trilogy seems to be the importance of abstract beliefs in providing meaning to daily life. It’s easy for the Platonians to believe in their gods, as they are present and meddling in events. Despite their caprices, overall their Just City experiment clearly has positive outcomes. It’s an interesting example of a utopia from above: the Just City and its successors could not have been established and sustained without the gods, although the concept came from Plato. Human ideas manifested through divine intervention. Interpreted literally, this suggests we should pray to our local deities for a better world in which we can become our best selves. Mainly, though, the series is a fascinating and humane thought experiment full of engaging characters and intelligent dialogue. I’ve never read anything else quite like it. For all the thematic similarities, Palmer’s books are a totally different yet complementary experience.
September 29, 2018
My experience reading this book went something like this:
"Ooh, a recontact story! That will be fun!"
[50 pages of wandering through time]
"...can we get back to outer space?"
[more time travel]
"...but outer space! and aliens!"
[more time travel]
"Okay yes fine but what about that spaceship?"
[more time travel]
"Don't care. Athena can die in a fire. SPACESHIP. WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH THE SPACESHIP?"
[more time travel]
"But what about--oh, hey, a Platonic city populated entirely by robots? Yeah, okay, that's just as interesting as a first contact story, I would be happy reading about--"
[more time travel]
As previously mentioned, I tend to have this thing with Walton's books: they are 90% Everything I Ever Wanted, and 10% What The Hell Why Did You Go There The Interesting Stuff Was Back That Way. I remarked that The Just City was one of the few Walton books where I didn't have this problem, and apparently that's because she was saving all the veering off track for book three. (Veering off track from my perspective, that is. I have no doubt this goes exactly where Walton wants it to go, it's just we have some very different ideas about what makes a satisfyingly structured story.)
On the other hand this was obviously compulsively readable--I finished it in less than two days. I love the characters. I love the worldbuilding. I just don't understand any of the choices about the plot.
"Ooh, a recontact story! That will be fun!"
[50 pages of wandering through time]
"...can we get back to outer space?"
[more time travel]
"...but outer space! and aliens!"
[more time travel]
"Okay yes fine but what about that spaceship?"
[more time travel]
"Don't care. Athena can die in a fire. SPACESHIP. WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH THE SPACESHIP?"
[more time travel]
"But what about--oh, hey, a Platonic city populated entirely by robots? Yeah, okay, that's just as interesting as a first contact story, I would be happy reading about--"
[more time travel]
As previously mentioned, I tend to have this thing with Walton's books: they are 90% Everything I Ever Wanted, and 10% What The Hell Why Did You Go There The Interesting Stuff Was Back That Way. I remarked that The Just City was one of the few Walton books where I didn't have this problem, and apparently that's because she was saving all the veering off track for book three. (Veering off track from my perspective, that is. I have no doubt this goes exactly where Walton wants it to go, it's just we have some very different ideas about what makes a satisfyingly structured story.)
On the other hand this was obviously compulsively readable--I finished it in less than two days. I love the characters. I love the worldbuilding. I just don't understand any of the choices about the plot.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
August 3, 2016
Looking back, I think The Just City was probably the best and purest of the three after all. The scale here is so grand that Walton has to structure the story around plot coupons (warning: TV Tropes) just to get a handle on things, and that's before we get to the temporal mechanics. Perhaps I'm too dourly unconvinced by the third-volume outbreak of functional utopia: Both of the previous books centered ethically on really nasty divine behavior, whereas here everyone means well. Or perhaps my primal association with anagke is still from Prometheus Bound, with the ruthlessness of pagan fate, and I'd not be satisfied with a different take on the concept.
In any case, I unreservedly recommend the trilogy. It is great fun, accessible but wickedly smart, and I hope it founds a subgenre of SFnal riffs on Plato.
In any case, I unreservedly recommend the trilogy. It is great fun, accessible but wickedly smart, and I hope it founds a subgenre of SFnal riffs on Plato.
July 18, 2021
I liked it better this time through, though re-reading my review I agree with a lot of the flaws I pointed out there. This installment was much more of a meander through ~3 stories that only barely intersected with each other, but were presented in overlapping POV chapters as if they had more to do with each other than they did. On this second read, it felt more like occupying the space of the Just City, "a day in the life," rather than moving toward any big character developments or revelations. The Chaos journey was supposed to be revelatory but it wound up feeling incongruous and didn't get massaged into the fabric of any of the characters in a satisfying way. It's also too bad the pod stuff was so abrupt and unexplored. "They lived happily ever after."
Also... I maintain my disgruntlement at how Kebes was treated. Is there seriously no one in the tens of thousands of people in these cities who doesn't like Platonism? No one? No doubters are ever presented, except Kebes who has become their version of Satan. Just because he wasn't grateful to be kidnapped and brainwashed as a 10 year-old? No sale.
----------
This series really couldn't sustain three books. This one felt particularly rushed and choppy. I felt like I could see the bones of the writing process sticking out all over the place. (For instance, in an overpopulated expository conversation in the middle of the book, after a character speaks, the narrating character notes that they'd forgotten that character was even there--it's okay if you forgot when writing, Ms. Author Lady! Either we don't need to know about it, or it's probably a sign that you have too many people in that scene!)
Overall, the book seemed to have 3 or 4 more characters than it needed. But I'm glad that the author at least resisted the urge to carry over all the surviving narrators of the previous two books.
I don't really have any idea what the point of the very, very, verrrrry drawn-out escapade into the Chaos Beyond Time was.
I'd rather have spent more time with the exchange between the space humans and the new mixed human/Saeli Platonic societies, not to mention the interplay of their pantheons. And what were the Amarathi even there for? My scifi predilections are showing, I guess.
So, this book was again way off the mark of what I enjoyed so much in the first book. Which makes me very sad, because I really, deeply enjoyed the first book and have hoped for success in the subsequent two. But.... nope.
Also... I maintain my disgruntlement at how Kebes was treated. Is there seriously no one in the tens of thousands of people in these cities who doesn't like Platonism? No one? No doubters are ever presented, except Kebes who has become their version of Satan. Just because he wasn't grateful to be kidnapped and brainwashed as a 10 year-old? No sale.
----------
This series really couldn't sustain three books. This one felt particularly rushed and choppy. I felt like I could see the bones of the writing process sticking out all over the place. (For instance, in an overpopulated expository conversation in the middle of the book, after a character speaks, the narrating character notes that they'd forgotten that character was even there--it's okay if you forgot when writing, Ms. Author Lady! Either we don't need to know about it, or it's probably a sign that you have too many people in that scene!)
Overall, the book seemed to have 3 or 4 more characters than it needed. But I'm glad that the author at least resisted the urge to carry over all the surviving narrators of the previous two books.
I don't really have any idea what the point of the very, very, verrrrry drawn-out escapade into the Chaos Beyond Time was.
I'd rather have spent more time with the exchange between the space humans and the new mixed human/Saeli Platonic societies, not to mention the interplay of their pantheons. And what were the Amarathi even there for? My scifi predilections are showing, I guess.
So, this book was again way off the mark of what I enjoyed so much in the first book. Which makes me very sad, because I really, deeply enjoyed the first book and have hoped for success in the subsequent two. But.... nope.
April 16, 2025
La reseña completa en https://inthenevernever.blogspot.com/...
«¿Cambiaría todo para la humanidad si les mostráramos pruebas de que los Dioses existen, se preocupan por nosotros e intervienen en nuestras vidas?».
Si son de los seguidores fieles del blog, es muy probable que ya sepan lo muchísimo que me gustaron tanto La Ciudad Justa como Los Reyes Filósofos. Los dos primeros libros de la trilogía de Tesalia. Así que hoy no puedo hacer otra cosa que recomendarles Necesidad, de Jo Walton. La novela final de esa apasionante aventura en la que Atenea y Apolo decidieron llevar a la práctica la República de Platón. Aunque ninguno de los implicados podía imaginar las consecuencias que tendría ese experimento, no solo para las personas de distintas épocas que fueron llevadas a la urbe con el objetivo de convertir en realidad el sueño del filósofo griego, sino también para los dioses que idearon la prueba.
«¿Cambiaría todo para la humanidad si les mostráramos pruebas de que los Dioses existen, se preocupan por nosotros e intervienen en nuestras vidas?».
Si son de los seguidores fieles del blog, es muy probable que ya sepan lo muchísimo que me gustaron tanto La Ciudad Justa como Los Reyes Filósofos. Los dos primeros libros de la trilogía de Tesalia. Así que hoy no puedo hacer otra cosa que recomendarles Necesidad, de Jo Walton. La novela final de esa apasionante aventura en la que Atenea y Apolo decidieron llevar a la práctica la República de Platón. Aunque ninguno de los implicados podía imaginar las consecuencias que tendría ese experimento, no solo para las personas de distintas épocas que fueron llevadas a la urbe con el objetivo de convertir en realidad el sueño del filósofo griego, sino también para los dioses que idearon la prueba.
October 10, 2016
I absolutely loved the first book of this series, The Just City. I didn't love book 2, The Philosopher Kings, nearly as much, but I gave it four stars based on my adoration for book 1 and the hope of a strong ending to the trilogy in book 3. I'm sorry to say that this book, Necessity, was pretty disappointing. The first book was just so meaty and fascinating - it took an idea (the gods creating a city as an experiment to see Plato's work in action) and gave it space to breathe. There was no shortage of discussion, debate, and curiosity. It was a book of the mind, and I loved every word of it. But book 2 and, even more so, book 3 veered further and further away from this initial premise. This book was so sentimental. Again, we were given a fascinating premise - first contact between the Platonic cities on their new planet and humans from the world that was - but unlike book 1, this premise was barely touched upon. We even got a second interesting premise (in case the first one wasn't enough, I guess?) - Athena lost in the primordial Chaos outside of time - Hell, remove those ideas, and just give me a book that explored more of what it meant for this Bronze Age society to make a new life on an alien world! But instead, this book was basically a treasure hunt in order for characters from the previous two books to make cameos and/or rejoin the story.
I wanted this book to be a glorious finale, taking the promise of books 1 and 2 and seeing it through to its conclusion - creating Plato's Republic as a thought exercise is all well and good, but will it survive contact with other societies? - but mostly it felt like we're expected to believe all the hard work is done, the society is perfect, and instead we get a weird farewell tour courtesy of the gods and their time-traveling abilities.
It was entertaining, and I'd still recommend the series in general and book 1 in particular, but I'll do so with the recommendation not to expect the same quality as book 1 through the entire trilogy.
I wanted this book to be a glorious finale, taking the promise of books 1 and 2 and seeing it through to its conclusion - creating Plato's Republic as a thought exercise is all well and good, but will it survive contact with other societies? - but mostly it felt like we're expected to believe all the hard work is done, the society is perfect, and instead we get a weird farewell tour courtesy of the gods and their time-traveling abilities.
It was entertaining, and I'd still recommend the series in general and book 1 in particular, but I'll do so with the recommendation not to expect the same quality as book 1 through the entire trilogy.
May 5, 2017
I actually read this book a couple of months back, and have kept delaying reviewing it because this series is so hard to describe. "Necessity" was not at all what I thought it would be after reading the description and opening. However, I think that that has been one of the strengths of this series for me all along. The books do not rely on plot points and action, but on the development of ideas (and, to some extent, characters). "Necessity" brings the themes begun in "The Just City" to a satisfying conclusion, while moving the setting from the Ancient world to the far future.
Apollo remains the only viewpoint character to extend through the entire trilogy, which makes sense considering that many of the philosophical concepts presented are explored through his character development. We are also introduced to several new viewpoints, including a few chapters from the perspective of the sentient robot Crocus. The new characters were likeable and some surprise cameos from previous characters were unexpectedly fun.
"The Just City" focused on the question of whether Plato's Republic could (and should) really function as written. It also dealt with issues of consent. "The Philosopher Kings" explored what happens when people have different ideas of how to construct a Utopia, while also dealing with grief. "Necessity" seems to be about fate and free will, and the incorporation of new ideas into a culture.
I have been a huge fan of Jo Walton ever since I read "Among Others" when it first came out, and each subsequent release has cemented my opinion of her as one of the authors whose works I will always pick up, regardless of topic. Every one of her books or series is completely different from anything else that she has written, but they all contain explorations of ideas that make the reader think while also being wonderful stories. I loved this trilogy and I'm looking forward to seeing what Walton does next.
(A quick note, don't worry about having to read Plato in order to understand and enjoy these books. The philosophy is presented in such a way that it is easily accessible to readers who have little previous knowledge of Greek philosophy. Of course it might make you want to run out and read The Republic once you are finished.)
Apollo remains the only viewpoint character to extend through the entire trilogy, which makes sense considering that many of the philosophical concepts presented are explored through his character development. We are also introduced to several new viewpoints, including a few chapters from the perspective of the sentient robot Crocus. The new characters were likeable and some surprise cameos from previous characters were unexpectedly fun.
"The Just City" focused on the question of whether Plato's Republic could (and should) really function as written. It also dealt with issues of consent. "The Philosopher Kings" explored what happens when people have different ideas of how to construct a Utopia, while also dealing with grief. "Necessity" seems to be about fate and free will, and the incorporation of new ideas into a culture.
I have been a huge fan of Jo Walton ever since I read "Among Others" when it first came out, and each subsequent release has cemented my opinion of her as one of the authors whose works I will always pick up, regardless of topic. Every one of her books or series is completely different from anything else that she has written, but they all contain explorations of ideas that make the reader think while also being wonderful stories. I loved this trilogy and I'm looking forward to seeing what Walton does next.
(A quick note, don't worry about having to read Plato in order to understand and enjoy these books. The philosophy is presented in such a way that it is easily accessible to readers who have little previous knowledge of Greek philosophy. Of course it might make you want to run out and read The Republic once you are finished.)
August 19, 2016
Not great. Not nearly as interesting or thought-provoking as the previous two. Feels thrown together just to end things, and thus feels like a huge run around, accomplishing nothing.
Quick vague synopsis:
Big event that seemed like it should be the focus is barely mentioned, resolved as a "oh, by the way" in a fraction of a single chapter at the end.
Actual focus of the book is a huge fetch quest/macguffin/red herring/wild goose chase THAT HAS NO STATED RESOLUTION. In fact, the characters prepare to accomplish their mission, then, mid-chapter, there's a poem about the nature of reality, then they are back, wondering at all they learned and experienced, BUT NEVER TELLING THE READER.
Then there is approximately 40-50 pages (over 10% of the book) where nearly nothing happens, except the resolution of a love triangle using sister-wives, initially against their wills.
Add frequent instances of chapters being out of order, so that you're constantly jumping forward and backward in time, unsure if events from previous chapters have occurred yet, and usually they haven't. Also add frequent "Boy, other cultures are weird because they're not us" conversations.
Lastly, a niggling error that bugs me: This book includes a species that uses different pronouns for beings in different situations (gender, occupation, status of their work, divinity). Usually, this narrative convention is upheld, but there are numerous times when characters/narrators forget for a while, then pick it up again, seemingly hoping that we won't notice.
In the end, read this for completeness, not for expansion of the interesting society from the first two books.
Quick vague synopsis:
Big event that seemed like it should be the focus is barely mentioned, resolved as a "oh, by the way" in a fraction of a single chapter at the end.
Actual focus of the book is a huge fetch quest/macguffin/red herring/wild goose chase THAT HAS NO STATED RESOLUTION. In fact, the characters prepare to accomplish their mission, then, mid-chapter, there's a poem about the nature of reality, then they are back, wondering at all they learned and experienced, BUT NEVER TELLING THE READER.
Then there is approximately 40-50 pages (over 10% of the book) where nearly nothing happens, except the resolution of a love triangle using sister-wives, initially against their wills.
Add frequent instances of chapters being out of order, so that you're constantly jumping forward and backward in time, unsure if events from previous chapters have occurred yet, and usually they haven't. Also add frequent "Boy, other cultures are weird because they're not us" conversations.
Lastly, a niggling error that bugs me: This book includes a species that uses different pronouns for beings in different situations (gender, occupation, status of their work, divinity). Usually, this narrative convention is upheld, but there are numerous times when characters/narrators forget for a while, then pick it up again, seemingly hoping that we won't notice.
In the end, read this for completeness, not for expansion of the interesting society from the first two books.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
February 20, 2017
I was a little disappointed by this final book in an otherwise phenomenal series. By all means, I don't think this book was bad- it was quite fun reconnecting with many of the characters from the first two books in the series, and continuing to see what has happened to the city, but the plot felt a little unmoored.
I think the series from the start has had two different threads- the first is the construction of the city, the building of a new society from scratch, and the growing pains that a society that tries to be a utopia goes through. The second thread was the larger magic behind the curtains that set up the plots. What is the nature of the gods and their time traveling in the series. What are the roles of souls and Zeus in the larger picture, etc... While the first two books focused on the society, and had an undercurrent of the magic world building, this final book focused on the later- devoting a lot of it's time to a quest to undercover the nature of reality in the book's world.
While I enjoy worldbuilding, and discovering the history and rules of the magic, this book felt a little unmoored with it's exploration of the bigger questions. It jumped around quite a bit and didn't offer much commentary on the society which I think was the strength of the earlier books. When the society is faced with an existential moment- coming into contact with the rest of humanity, the ramifications of this contact are only covered in a few pages in the whole book, whereas I think a stronger story would have focused on it more.
That being said, the book is still enjoyable, due to the characters, its humor, and still very interesting premise.
I think the series from the start has had two different threads- the first is the construction of the city, the building of a new society from scratch, and the growing pains that a society that tries to be a utopia goes through. The second thread was the larger magic behind the curtains that set up the plots. What is the nature of the gods and their time traveling in the series. What are the roles of souls and Zeus in the larger picture, etc... While the first two books focused on the society, and had an undercurrent of the magic world building, this final book focused on the later- devoting a lot of it's time to a quest to undercover the nature of reality in the book's world.
While I enjoy worldbuilding, and discovering the history and rules of the magic, this book felt a little unmoored with it's exploration of the bigger questions. It jumped around quite a bit and didn't offer much commentary on the society which I think was the strength of the earlier books. When the society is faced with an existential moment- coming into contact with the rest of humanity, the ramifications of this contact are only covered in a few pages in the whole book, whereas I think a stronger story would have focused on it more.
That being said, the book is still enjoyable, due to the characters, its humor, and still very interesting premise.
October 12, 2016
There were very few loose ends to wrap up at the end of the last book, so I wasn't sure what to expect from this book. Unfortunately, it did not live up to previous two books in the series. Near the beginning of the book the residents of Plato receive news that Earth's humans have made contact. I was interested to see how the planet's inhabitants would react to a culture that would be very different than their own. However, the author barely addressed this issue at all. Instead she inexplicably chose to make the plot revolve around time travel. Even the philosophical side of this book was weak. She explored exactly one philosophical idea, that of the titular necessity, and repeated the same reasoning again and again without any real variation on the idea. The tying up of loose ends wound up being a literal deux ex machina with no real consequences for any of the character's actions. I finished the book feeling like the author would have been better off wrapping up all the loose ends at the end of the last book and leaving out this book entirely. Ironically, this book turned out to be rather unnecessary.
April 10, 2018
The third volume is set forty years after the five Cities are transferred to a new planet, which its inhabitants call Plato.
I don't think the conclusion of the trilogy is quite as strong as the first two volumes, but it has some great moments. There are two different examples of first contact here, with the inhabitants of Plato meeting alien species, and humans from Earth discovering Plato - but I would have liked to know more about those elements, especially the latter which turns out to be a very small part of the book.
The chapters change point of view between Apollo (again), Crocus from The Just City (yay! finally!), and two inhabitants of Plato from the younger generation (Marsilia - who is descended from Simmea - and Jason). The most interesting chapters are definitely Crocus's, I really enjoyed the AI perspective.
I don't think the conclusion of the trilogy is quite as strong as the first two volumes, but it has some great moments. There are two different examples of first contact here, with the inhabitants of Plato meeting alien species, and humans from Earth discovering Plato - but I would have liked to know more about those elements, especially the latter which turns out to be a very small part of the book.
The chapters change point of view between Apollo (again), Crocus from The Just City (yay! finally!), and two inhabitants of Plato from the younger generation (Marsilia - who is descended from Simmea - and Jason). The most interesting chapters are definitely Crocus's, I really enjoyed the AI perspective.
December 26, 2016
So book 1 is a neat extension of the original thought experiment. Book 2 continues plausibly enough from the end of book 1. Book 3, though, kind of jumps on board the crazy train.
May 20, 2024
What a disappointment. The ideas are cool but nothing happened in this book? No characters were anyone I cared about, and every time a plot point COULD have happened, the author changed chapter and focused on something else. What a sad ending to a promising idea. I guess I respect that Jo Walton swung for the fences, but ooph
December 13, 2024
3.75 stars. Good conclusion to the series.
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