سمینار یونگ درباره ی زرتشت نیچه

by James L. Jarrett (Editor), C.G. Jung, سپیده حبیب

چنین گفت زرتشت، اثر مشهور نیچه، سرشار است از یک حس غریب مذهبی و در تضاد با جدال معمول این فیلسوف با ایمان دینی. این کتاب برای برخی دانشمندان، چیزی نیست جز نشانه ی زوال ذهنی آن فیلسوف بزرگ؛ ولی کارل گوستاو یونگ، زرتشت را برهان ارزشمندی برای فعالیت ناخودآگاه می داند، کتابی که روانشناسی و دیدگاه معنوی نیچه را به طور خاص و روانشناسی و معنویت دنیای مدرن را به طور عام روشن می کند.
رویارویی مکتوب غول های تاریخ اندیشه همواره مسحور کننده و فوق العاده روشنگر بوده؛ این بار هم نوبت یونگ و نیچه است. برای نیچه ای که آگاهانه نوشته هایش را مختص «افراد معدودی» می دانست، تفاوت فراوانی بود میان اخلاق برده وار سازگاری، مماشات، رحم و بخشایش از یک سو و اخلاق آموزگاران و اخلاق ابرانسان از سوی دیگر. یونگ نیز بارها گفته است بیشتر مردم در پیشبرد و تکامل آگاهی شان از قرون وسطی فراتر نمی روند و شاید به همین دلیل بهتر است آن ها را در اتاق نشیمن خانه شان و بر نیمکت های کلیسا به حال خود واگذاشت. هم برای یونگ و هم برای نیچه، جاده ی _ به اصطلاح یونگ _ «فردیت یابی»، متروک و ناهموار است، خصوصاً اگر عموم مردم، مقصد و مأموریت گام برداشتن در چنین جاده ای را درک نکرده باشند و حتی با آن در تضاد باشند. پس هر یک در زمان خویش حس می کردند که _ به قول نیچه _ پس از مرگ زاده می شوند.
کتاب دوجلدی اصلی که حاوی متن کامل سمینار پرهیجان یونگ درباره ی زرتشت نیچه است، منبع مهمی برای متخصصان روانشناسی ناخودآگاه به شمار می رود. این مجلد جدید، متن خلاصه شده ای است که به خوانندگان علاقه مند هم اجازه می دهد در سمینار یونگ شرکت کنند و با او به کاوش در معانی نهفته ی این اثر بزرگ بنشینند. جیمز جرت، ویراستار این کتاب، استاد فلسفه ی تربیتی در دانشگاه کالیفرنیا، برکلی است.

Genres: Philosophy, Psychology, Psychoanalysis, Nonfiction, Reference, Unfinished

624 pages, Hardcover

First published January 1, 1939

Reviews

[ZaRi]

اگر با تن تان بدرفتاری کنید، شما را کاملاً از خانه بیرون می کند، یعنی به بیرون از جسم رانده می شوید. (ارتباط تان با جسم و نیمه فرودین روانتان قطع می شود.)
مثل بدرفتاری با اشیا است. اشیا بی جان اند؛ به لَختی بر زمین پهن شده اند؛ نه پا دارند و نه بال، و مردم گاه بسیار بد با آنها رفتار می کنند.
اگر من عجول باشم و مثلاً کتاب ها را بدجوری ورق بزنم، برای این اشیای بیچاره، بدبختی تاسف آوری به بار می آورم. پس از من انتقام می گیرند. چون با آن ها بدرفتاری کرده ام، به شیوه خودشان به مخالفت با من بر می خیزند.
من می گویم: «اوه، اشیای لعنتی، چیزهای مرده و بی جان، شما نفرت انگیزید!» و آن ها بلافاصله جان می گیرند. جوری رفتار می کنند که انگار موجوداتی جاندار و زنده اند. و هر چه بیشتر نفرین شان کنید، بیشتر از کلماتی استفاده می کنید که جان در آنها می دمد. مثلا «این کتاب کجا قایم شده؟ راهش را کشیده و رفته و یک جایی گم و گور شده.» یا «این ساعت جنی است، کجا رفته است؟» اشیا برای کسانی که رفتار عجولانه ای با آنها دارند، واقعاً خطرناک می شوند: داخل چشمتان می پرند، پایتان را گاز می گیرند، روی صندلی می خزند و نوکِ تیزشان را جایی می گذارند که می نشینید و خلاصه از این جور کارها. ولی این اتفاقات فقط برای افرادی می افتند که با اشیا (و نیز تن)، عجولانه رفتار می کنند، آن وقت است که شیاطین به اشیا نفوذ می کنند و شیرین کاری های خارق العاده ای ازشان سر می زند!

[John · Rating 5 out of 5]

A treasure trove of Jung's thoughts on analytical psychology seen through the lens of Thus Spake Zarathustra. The drawback here is organization. Jung allows a sequential reading of Nietzsche's work to dictate the order of ideas presented, so a variety of topics--projection, the anima, Christianity--may appear together in one chapter whose uniting focus is a given passage from Zarathustra. One multifaceted work therefore gives rise to another. It's as if Jung donned a safari hat and took his audience on a hunt for the wild Nietzsche--in Nietzsche's own unconscious. The result is fascinating, rewarding, and freewheeling, ultimately being very difficult to pick up a consistent thread of meaning from start to finish.

[Niketas Siniossoglou · Rating 5 out of 5]

C. G. Jung, Nietzsche's Zarathustra: Notes of the Seminar Given in 1934-39 [2 vol]. Princeton University Press 1988.

The best analysis of symbolism in Thus Spoke Zarathustra, this tremendous work of some 1.500 pages still awaits to be re-issued and re-discovered. Scandalously neglected by scholars of Nietzsche, Jung's notes circulated for years among his students achieving a "cult" status. In Jung's reading Nietzsche is possessed by archetypical powers and eventually swallowed up by Zarathustra in an act of self-sacrifice / self-annihilation. Zarathustra thus becomes the sarcophagus of Mr Nietzsche: "You see, that is the spirit when it breaks away. Zarathustra is a very wise and beautiful spirit in a way, and then he is the devil himself..."

[Leila · Rating 5 out of 5]

بهترین کتابی که میشه برای شناخت یونگ و فلسفه‌اش خوند. این کتاب علاوه بر تحلیل کتاب «چنین گفت زرتشت» میتونه یک کتاب بسیار خوب در زمینه خودشناسی باشه.

[Batuhan Erdogan · Rating 5 out of 5]

Reading this could be the best decision I've ever made in my life.

I dived into it completely unprepared, for I was so convinced I had grasped the gist of Zarathustra already, thinking I could deal with Jung's power of analysis after a long period of acclimatization. In retrospect, even the first seminar should have been a warning sign for what was about to ensue, but the "lightening" did not hit me until after six more sessions into the book, until exactly when it's supposed to hit.

Now I'm beginning to think the wound it opened is here to stay... And I sincerely hope it is.

[S h a y a N · Rating 5 out of 5]

میخواستم بهش چهار بدم ولی بخاطر دو صفحه آخر پنج میدم!
یونگ به خوبی و با استفاده از دانش روانکاویش تونسته بود از پس تفسیر این بزرگترین کتاب بشریت بربیاد. هرچند به عقیده من اگه تمام اندیشمندان جهان هم جمع بشن نمی‌تونن معنای عمیقی که نیچه در این جمله ها گنجونده رو بفهمن ولی به هرحال این کتاب [چنین گفت زرتشت] مثل یه اقیانوس بی پایانه که هرکس به اندازه ظرفیتش میتونه ازش بهره مند بشه و تفسیرش کنه و به یقین تفسیر یونگ از این کتاب یکی از بهترین ها بود.

[Xavier Waterstone · Rating 5 out of 5]

“If those you love are far away, you have the greatest chance of being alone with yourself in the meantime; you have an incomparable opportunity to become acquainted with yourself and then you make discoveries. The quest is the quest of the self-that is the precious thing which is difficult to attain; that is the hero's fight and you are alone, and even have no weapons. Anybody who is with you at that moment would be in between; the final fight is with yourself, and everything else is - or may be - a hindrance”

*

Shortly after noontide on the train between Dresden and Berlin, I finished reading the transcripts of the Zarathustra Seminars. It saddens me enormously that they were cut short by the advent of war, and hence the 57th to 80th chapters of Zarathustra are left without Jung’s illumination.

Zarathustra is an extraordinary and disturbing book, and Jung’s exegesis had the insight and intensity to deal with it and render a very great deal of its troublesome content comprehensible. For those given to marginalia, a sharp pencil is recommended due to this work’s phenomenal signal-to-noise ratio. Truly this text is both a companion and something of an antidote to Zarathustra. For those who have been cut by Nietzsche’s text, it will not heal the wound, but it will help stop the bleeding.

Whilst Jung goes off on some pretty wild tangents and is quite generous in the use of some favourite anecdotes, taken as a whole, the lectures are highly engaging, if al little long-winded. The interjections and questions from the small seminar group add another dimension because they frequently anticipate points of clarification the reader may have about Jung’s commentary and analysis. Each attendee adds a distinct personality – from the slightly unwieldy Barbara Hannah to the bolder Toni Wolff. Between the seminar group there is a solid coverage of different angles, albeit from a level of depth commensurate to their psychological training and with the benefit of attending the seminars. This means many of the questions are more intricate than those which could be formulated by a layperson, but nonetheless, Jung does an admirable job stepping down the voltage in plain language. Therein, those with a basic knowledge of Jungian Psychology and the patience to follow up historical references shouldn’t have too much trouble, because the explanations are handled and delivered with a highly-developed, and more importantly, balanced set of functions which was lacking for Nietzsche. At over 1,500 pages, it is not a work of economy as narrow, thematically-focussed analyses of literature are wont to be, but an expedition which goes through by chapter with a fine-toothed comb.

The seminars are effectively an epic case study of Nietzsche-Zarathustra, dealing with highly differentiated intuition, inflation/identification with unconscious contents, projections, the shadow (inferior man), collective unconscious, and to a lesser extent anima psychology among other things. There are also some insightful reflections on the (then current) psychological atmosphere in Europe, and valuable forays into Christian values and morality, especially ‘neighbour-love’ and ‘self-love’, the nature of revelation, and of course, the death of God.

[Äsruþr Cyneaþsson · Rating 5 out of 5]

A seminal work from Jung. The documented version of the series of lectures given by Jung in which he looks at Nietzsche's essential text is an amazing insight. Jung may well have been the great unacknowledged magus of the 20th century. His insights into the motivation, meaning and possible psychological reasoning behind Nietzsche's work are invaluable for students of Nietzsche and Jung. The insight into the possible inflation of Nietzsche's mind by the archetype calling itself 'Zarathustra' is perhaps telling of Jung's psychology and is thus invaluable for anyone seeking to understand the complex balances of invoking any form of consciousness through ritual and the associated risks. Jung's notion that Nietzsche was unaware of the inflation and thus ultimately fell into madness is perhaps a warning for those who may dabble with invocation without a grasp of their own deific state first.

[Daniel · Rating 4 out of 5]

Jung had some interesting ideas about Nietzsche, and it is a good source for looking Nietzsche as a psychologist.

[matt]

The Übermensch is inside me

[Jonatan · Rating 5 out of 5]

Primer tomo de los dos que componen la edición española del seminario sobre el Zaratustra de Nietzsche de Carl Jung. Cada tomo cuenta con 800 páginas. Este primer tomo es una gran herramienta para profundizar en el pensamiento de Jung, cuyos esquemas básicos se pueden exponer en unas pocas páginas pero cuya profundidad es infinita y da para las decenas de tomos que componen su obra completa, cartas, y seminarios.

El seminario se organiza en torno a la teoría de Jung de que Nietzsche estaba inflado con el arquetipo del viejo sabio al identificarse con Zaratustra. Pero no nos engañemos, este seminario no va a ser tan de provecho para los estudiosos de Nietzsche como para los estudiosos de Jung, pues su principal virtud reside en la cantidad innumerable de temas que Jung trata a partir del texto de Nietzsche. Es una delicia deleitarse en la sabiduría del psiquiatra suizo en torno a temas tan dispares como el estado, la tecnología, la soledad, la masa, la esquizofrenia, el pánico, el budismo, el cristianismo, la existencia de otras dimensiones psíquicas e infinidad de otros asuntos. Que no se sorprenda asimismo el lector si se encuentra con ciertas opiniones "difíciles" para el presente. Jung no se corta a la hora de apoyar la pena de muerte o de concebir la idoneidad del castigo como pura represalia y no como medio de mejorar moralmente al delincuente, en pos de un equilibrio psicológico adecuado.

Si bien Jung nunca es explícitamente político en sus lecciones, se desprenden diversas tendencias de su teoría y de sus comentarios. Por un lado, una cierta preferencia del liberalismo frente al comunismo: el comunismo sería un intento de totalitarismo racional mientras el liberalismo permitiría el desarrollo psicológico de los miembros de la sociedad mediante el esfuerzo necesario para la vida concebida heraclíteamente como tensión de opuestos. Por otro lado, Jung se muestra escéptico respecto a la tecnología, y en algún lugar (Aion, si no me equivoco) llega a equiparar la Revolución Francesa con la venida del Anticristo, hechos más propios de un tradicionalista que de un liberal.

Me sigue impresionando como la teoría de Jung puede ser expuesta en pocas páginas, como hace por ejemplo Jolande Jacobi en su introducción a Jung en unas 200 páginas, y como a la vez esa simplicidad puede contener en sí una profundidad que puede dar para toda una vida de estudio. Es también un placer haber dado, tras años de búsqueda en la universidad y fuera de ella, con un pensador cuya teoría se adapta a mí y puede servir de centro a partir del cual dar sentido al mundo. Tengo la sensación de que la lectura de Jung, para mí, no ha hecho más que empezar.

[Waleed · Rating 4 out of 5]

These are the notes of 86 seminars chaired by Carl Jung on Thus Spoke Zarathustra. The seminars took place during 11 academic terms in the years 1934-1939, and the notes weigh in at over 1,500 pages, which is about 7-8 times the length of ‘Zarathustra’ itself. Incredibly, the seminar series didn’t cover the whole of ‘Zarathustra’, just the prologue and the first three of the four parts. The reason given for the abandonment of the seminars was the outbreak of World War II, when it might no longer have seemed politic to dedicate so much attention to Nietzsche’s thought. But I think Jung might have abandoned the project anyway; in the final two terms one gets the sense of his impatience with the text, and he digresses at length about subjects only tangentially related to ‘Zarathustra’.
 
Despite that, these seminar notes are a fascinating psychological analysis of a complex and mystifying book, and I’m not sure how one can start to make sense of ‘Zarathustra’ without them. The seminar notes are also a very useful insight into Jung’s concepts, although ‘Zarathustra’ doesn’t fit as neatly into Jung’s schema as Jung might like to think. For example, Jung never really manages to satisfactorily explain the early episode of the buffoon jumping over the rope dancer in Jungian terms.
 
The seminars were given in English (in Zurich), and were limited by time and audience, which means that Jung is a lot more succinct than when one reads him in translation from German. Jung also stays on-topic most of the time. There is much less of the disappearing down arcane rabbit holes (alchemy, Gnosticism, Hermeticism, mandala symbolism) that can be so frustrating in the rest of the Collected Works. At the best moments of this massive work (and there are many), one gets the sense of being in the presence of Jung as a wise and learned teacher. It is also reassuring to know that even Jung, with all of his understanding of the unconscious, can find ‘Thus Spoke Zarathustra’ as baffling as the rest of us do.

[Richard · Rating 4 out of 5]

I didn't finish all the way, but I'm definately not still reading it. However, it was fascinating when i was reading it, and I'll finishi it. I had to put it on hold for school. Now school is a non issue, and i have time to read :)

[Erik C]

I'm hoping to find these volumes for under $50, but it doesn't seem likely.

I wouldn't be satisfied with the abridged version.

[Uğur · Rating 3 out of 5]

Jung's corpus, which was created by bringing together the seminar transcripts that continued at irregular intervals for 4 years. However, the entire book of Nietzsche's "Thus Spoke Zarathustra" has not been evaluated. As there are missing parts, I can say that there are subjective evaluations of Jung's analytical thinking style in the work. Rather than describing Nietzsche, Jung tells what Nietzsche means to him.

I can easily say that in Nietzsche's philosophy, the purpose of life is hidden in this world. Nietzsche cannot construct the "other side". This is a "worthless" enterprise for him. What is valuable in Nietzsche is the superior man who can create his own value. He sees it as something that only a person who frees himself from the moral and religious obsessions that surrounds him can achieve. So Nietzsche is not religious as we know it. However, Jung put it through such a filter that you might think that Nietzsche is actually more Christian than anyone else. I think the seminars are like examples of the best reverse psychology practices...

Jung touched upon a subject that I usually think about but did not think about because I could not read any evidence or findings about it. At this point, I can say that it affected me quite a lot. The issue in question was that Freud's psychoanalysis was actually applied by Nietzsche. Jung here emphasizes the assumption that Freud, influenced by Nietzsche, advanced on this subject. At this point, I couldn't figure out whether Jung is making subjective evaluations again with anti-Freud or is it a very objective analytical fiction. However, as a result, I was quite surprised to see that he touched on the subject that had been in the back of my mind for a long time.

By quoting from Nietzsche's books and analyzing their meanings, Jung deals with almost every topic in a way to design the Nietzsche in his thought. It is very nice, readable, and even objectionable seminars can be made fun, but I cannot say that it is an ideal work for understanding and describing Nietzsche and Zoroastrianism. Likewise, he constantly reminds the reader that the book Thus Spoke Zarathustra is incomprehensible. I wish you pleasant reading.

[Ghala Anas · Rating 5 out of 5]

"يرى المرء أشخاصاً يستحوذهم الماضي إلى الأبد، لا يستطيعون التكيف أبداً لأنهم لا يفهمون أبداً الوضع الجديد: إذ يبدو دائماً أنه الوضع القديم. إنهم لا يستطيعون أن ينسوا ذكرياتهم، الطريقة التي تكيفوا بها مع آبائهم تصبح نموذجهم الذي لا يمكن نسيانه. لذا لكي تكون قادراً على التكيف، يجب أن تمارس تلك الخيانة لذكرياتك ولكل الذين أحببتهم في الماضي، تلك الخيانة البريئة. يتعين عليك أن تنأى، تنسى ما أنت، وتكون لاوعياً لذاتك إذا أردت أن تتكيف على الإطلاق".
نيتشه-زرادشت: الحلم، الواقع، الحكمة والجنون – كارل يونج
يُحلل يونج فقرات كتاب نيتشه "هكذا تكلم زرادشت" ويحفر خلفها مستنبطاً السمات النفسية عنده، مكوناته الذاتية والصراع الداخلي الذي أنتج فلسفته.
الكتاب ماتعٌ، نافعٌ، قيِّم وثريٌّ بالإسقاطات، أحببتُه جداً.

[علي · Rating 5 out of 5]

المجلد يقدم نظرة نقدية لحالة نيتشه بعيون التحليل اليونغي، مُفككًا نفسية زرادشت مُحطم قيم الماضي ومحرر الأخلاق من اغلال ما سلف، والذي بظن يونج ما هو إلا تجسيد لحالة نيتشه المُبالغة في جنون العظمة والتي تعكس انفصاله عن ذاته الكلية، وكل هذا يقدمه بقراءة شذرات من النص ودروس فلسفية.

[Andreas Bodemer · Rating 5 out of 5]

If you’re interested in Nietzsche, don’t start here. Do yourself a favor and pick up a collection of his works, Beyond Good and Evil, Genealogy or Morals, or The Birth of Tragedy.

[Dan Volbert · Rating 5 out of 5]

A tour de force.

[Youssef Barj · Rating 5 out of 5]

Best book I've had the chance to read. A shame they had had to stop the seminar because of the war.

[El · Rating 5 out of 5]

Great lens to view Zarathrustra through, or useful as a window into Jung's ideas, this transcript gives a comprehensive dissection of Nietzsche's poetic-philosophic-prophetic masterpiece qua an analysis of the great philologist's psyche.
Ironically, perhaps, given both Jung's coining of the term sychronicity and the controversial synonymity of Nietzsche and the Nazi regime , these seminars coincided with Hitler's rise in power, and were permanently interrupted in 1939 by the outbreak of WW2; not before the bulk of Z had been 'overmentioned' (awful pun).
Anybody interested in Nietzsche, Jung, Psychology, Philosophy, Consciousness or Literary Formalism may be engaged by this book.

[Ned]

a grail seen but never read more than a chapter or so. Some day.

[Saeed biniaz · Rating 5 out of 5]

vaghti yong dar nmoderde chonin goft zartoshte niche harf bezanad va rvankavane maloom ast ke koolak ast

[Farid Mamaghanian · Rating 5 out of 5]

کمک!