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Thereafter Johnnie
Relates the saga of Johnnie, the mute daughter of an incestuous union, and her odyssey in search of her story that confronts issues of race, xenophobia, love, and shattered myths
243 pages, Paperback
First published January 1, 1991
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Displaying 1 - 11 of 11 reviews
May 21, 2018
A few lines I jotted down from Thereafter Johnnie:
You could learn to play tennis or swim or drive a car. And what if you really do belong in the world after all and the prophecy is wrong that says you must lose your soul? Why should you lose your soul? Why does so much horror lie upon you? Why don't you give up and live?
Why are you so sad? You read too much poetry. And you believe the wrong things about poetry. Poetry doesn't come from outer space. Poetry doesn't descend from heaven. Give life a chance. Life is stronger than the interpretation of life.
In the evenings we sat wondering how the end of the world would come. Perhaps the sun will set yellow but green skirted, and the next morning it will rise in the west emerald green.
It is possible never to have done with knocking our heads over the same few biographical incidents that insist upon being the arbitrary markers of our lives.
She thought the world was a good idea that had failed.
This country can't have me anymore. Back home I'm going to tell them about these people. These people don't flow. Each one is a separate drop of water falling into a still pool, each drop waiting for stillness before it falls.
.
You could learn to play tennis or swim or drive a car. And what if you really do belong in the world after all and the prophecy is wrong that says you must lose your soul? Why should you lose your soul? Why does so much horror lie upon you? Why don't you give up and live?
Why are you so sad? You read too much poetry. And you believe the wrong things about poetry. Poetry doesn't come from outer space. Poetry doesn't descend from heaven. Give life a chance. Life is stronger than the interpretation of life.
In the evenings we sat wondering how the end of the world would come. Perhaps the sun will set yellow but green skirted, and the next morning it will rise in the west emerald green.
It is possible never to have done with knocking our heads over the same few biographical incidents that insist upon being the arbitrary markers of our lives.
She thought the world was a good idea that had failed.
This country can't have me anymore. Back home I'm going to tell them about these people. These people don't flow. Each one is a separate drop of water falling into a still pool, each drop waiting for stillness before it falls.
.
May 4, 2011
This is an astonishing book---not only because of the wrenching nature of the subject matter, but because of the singularly original way that Ms Herron uses the English language. She is as much a poet as a novelist. Treat yourself to a copy of this book and prepare to be moved, challenged, sometimes charmed and often repulsed.
An African-American family in Washington DC copes with devastating family revelations and Herron explores the effects on a small child of the relationship between her parents and other family members. The family is headed by a DC physician who struggles over a relationship with his daughter and the ensuing traumas.
Herron's writing is captivating and hypnotic. I read this book 20 years ago and it still burns vividly in my brain. Do not miss it.
An African-American family in Washington DC copes with devastating family revelations and Herron explores the effects on a small child of the relationship between her parents and other family members. The family is headed by a DC physician who struggles over a relationship with his daughter and the ensuing traumas.
Herron's writing is captivating and hypnotic. I read this book 20 years ago and it still burns vividly in my brain. Do not miss it.
February 19, 2014
Herron delivers a poignant yet biting look at families and the tragedies that can sometimes tear them apart. But more than that, it's not just what happens to the collective unit but also the individuals within that family.
July 31, 2008
Excellent imagery. Author is a gem as well.
January 26, 2021
Thereafter Johnnie was an absolute powerhouse of a novel. Detailing the incestuous relationships and tragedy stricken lives of the well-to-do, Black Snowdon family, Herron tells a compelling story of race, sexuality, and emotionality. The story is told from various perspectives and is often written in stream-of-consciousness prose, using limited punctuation and often nonsensical phrasings. At times, this is unnecessarily dense but at others, it is a work of art in itself, making the reader work to absorb everything the story has to offer. Aside from a largely effective and impressively variable use of form and narration, Thereafter Johnnie touches on various complex themes that I'll outline below.
On Blackness
Herron situates a Black family in a role that is traditionally white -- the protagonists of an epic who enjoy wealth and fame but are doomed to tragedy. This epic is specifically a Christian epic with lots of Biblical references, tracing the condition of the Black man/woman to the Original Sin -- slavery. In the ultimate representation of eternal recurrence, Herron describes a mythology in which Black female slaves were raped by their white masters (often both Father and Son) to produce babies -- the whiter, the better. Black male offspring were erased -- killed or put to work -- while white males were used to continue this eugenic Black erasure. All female offspring were put to the same task, unwillingly. Herron suggests that this original brutal and incestuous tradition is felt in the minds of Black people today, though it may not manifest as literally as it does in the Snowdon family. As a brief aside, it is interesting how this Sin manifests as an inversion in the Snowdons (Black father/Black daughter, no Black erasure), but that isn't something I want to focus on. What I do want to focus on is a rather chilling passage early on in the novel that describes excellently Herron's impression of slavery and the effects it still has on the minds of Black Americans:
Brutal, grotesque, and visceral, this depiction of slavery is also a microcosm for the way Herron writes. Illustrious adjectives thrown together in a stream of consciousness helping to create a foundation for the images she's trying to convey. But the larger point here is this: violence on this scale is mind-numbing. What is 'easy' at the end of this passage is the act of letting the mind go. What else can the mind do in the face of such terror but to let go. And this is the most devilish aspect of slavery that is propagated through generations -- silence in the face of terror. We see this too in Herron's characters: Patricia's "empty skull" and Cynthia Jane's desire to forget. In Herron's view, to be Black is to live with this curse; the plague on Thebes comes from an Oedipus who is long dead.
On Sexuality
This book is no doubt potently erotic. Almost disturbingly so, given that the majority of the sexual encounters in this story are between father and daughter. I think what Herron most clearly sets out to detail about sexuality is that it is a force that is both volatile and extremely powerful. When it comes to the relationship between John Christopher (father) and Patricia (daughter), we hear about it from various angles. Cynthia Jane says Patricia seduced the father and went after him with a fury that he eventually succumbed to. Eva, herself very sensual, also says that it was Patricia who lusted after their father, but shames Patricia not at all and is indeed rather indifferent to the relationship. But it is through the opaque prose of Patricia's own narration that we learn that John Christopher began the abuse when Patricia was only two. This action then affected Patricia so deeply that she reflected this act of sexual betrayal 100 fold on her father in an act of unconscious retribution. Clearly, Herron wanted to communicate the lasting psychological effects of sexual trauma, even below the level of awareness.
Another interesting view on sexuality in the story is that of how quickly "passion kept changing to indifference." We see this in most of the interactions between John Christopher and Patricia. Initially a powerful lusting force, either JC or Pat simply burn out by the end of the transaction (which is exactly how some of their sex acts seem). Herron demonstrates both through the voice of Patricia in her describing the relationship to Eva, but also through this quote: "...he is an erected penis urging itself into a female hole, only that...John Christopher's penis in Patricia his daughter..." How odd it is to dehumanize the sex act when the characters involved are so horrifically human. Again with the volatility, sexuality comes and goes but it does so with extreme passion and extreme deference. Fickle.
Finally, On Subjectivity
Thereafter Johnnie is an onion. We know what we're looking at from the beginning but as we read we peel back layers, learn nuance, learn how unreliable every narrator is. We think we have a read on John Christopher, only to hear what he has to say on the matter. Eva and Cynthia Jane view the relationship differently than both Pat and Camille, the mother. Cynthia Jane's account is detailed, providing dates and times. Patricia's account is haphazard, likely influenced by trauma, and hard to decipher. It's incredible to me how such a theoretically simple conclusion "incestuous relationship between father and daughter" can be manipulated and obscured by the nature of interpretation. Of course, the way we deal with this in the real world is to just cast out ambiguity: the relationship was not loving, the father was in the wrong, there is a moral consequence for the action. And frankly, that may just be the way things need to be. But that's what I love about literature -- we can suspend our own ideas and hear it from characters deeply entrenched in the action. We are forced to confront how fickle our own interpretations are; indeed, often how inaccurate. To end, I'll leave this quote, spoken by Eva recounting the affair between John Christopher and Pat. It shows how much we want to have a concrete answer, but how inevitably it will evade us:
Overall, this book is a challenging read, but is a compelling, rewarding tale of Blackness, sexuality, and the human experience.
On Blackness
Herron situates a Black family in a role that is traditionally white -- the protagonists of an epic who enjoy wealth and fame but are doomed to tragedy. This epic is specifically a Christian epic with lots of Biblical references, tracing the condition of the Black man/woman to the Original Sin -- slavery. In the ultimate representation of eternal recurrence, Herron describes a mythology in which Black female slaves were raped by their white masters (often both Father and Son) to produce babies -- the whiter, the better. Black male offspring were erased -- killed or put to work -- while white males were used to continue this eugenic Black erasure. All female offspring were put to the same task, unwillingly. Herron suggests that this original brutal and incestuous tradition is felt in the minds of Black people today, though it may not manifest as literally as it does in the Snowdon family. As a brief aside, it is interesting how this Sin manifests as an inversion in the Snowdons (Black father/Black daughter, no Black erasure), but that isn't something I want to focus on. What I do want to focus on is a rather chilling passage early on in the novel that describes excellently Herron's impression of slavery and the effects it still has on the minds of Black Americans:
"The beauty of torture, the delight of slavery...is this -- the mind is free. With warm flesh in shreds, limbs broken torn, guts lashed slashed hung hooked, body held down trussed up bent over, skin fingernails toenails stripped off, breasts cheeks ears eyes stuck stung pierced, feet palms knees elbows shaved and shaved again to the bone, limbs pinned open spread askew separated detached, genitals mauled, split, sliced, eliminated, it's easy, so easy, so finally and absolutely easy."
Brutal, grotesque, and visceral, this depiction of slavery is also a microcosm for the way Herron writes. Illustrious adjectives thrown together in a stream of consciousness helping to create a foundation for the images she's trying to convey. But the larger point here is this: violence on this scale is mind-numbing. What is 'easy' at the end of this passage is the act of letting the mind go. What else can the mind do in the face of such terror but to let go. And this is the most devilish aspect of slavery that is propagated through generations -- silence in the face of terror. We see this too in Herron's characters: Patricia's "empty skull" and Cynthia Jane's desire to forget. In Herron's view, to be Black is to live with this curse; the plague on Thebes comes from an Oedipus who is long dead.
On Sexuality
This book is no doubt potently erotic. Almost disturbingly so, given that the majority of the sexual encounters in this story are between father and daughter. I think what Herron most clearly sets out to detail about sexuality is that it is a force that is both volatile and extremely powerful. When it comes to the relationship between John Christopher (father) and Patricia (daughter), we hear about it from various angles. Cynthia Jane says Patricia seduced the father and went after him with a fury that he eventually succumbed to. Eva, herself very sensual, also says that it was Patricia who lusted after their father, but shames Patricia not at all and is indeed rather indifferent to the relationship. But it is through the opaque prose of Patricia's own narration that we learn that John Christopher began the abuse when Patricia was only two. This action then affected Patricia so deeply that she reflected this act of sexual betrayal 100 fold on her father in an act of unconscious retribution. Clearly, Herron wanted to communicate the lasting psychological effects of sexual trauma, even below the level of awareness.
Another interesting view on sexuality in the story is that of how quickly "passion kept changing to indifference." We see this in most of the interactions between John Christopher and Patricia. Initially a powerful lusting force, either JC or Pat simply burn out by the end of the transaction (which is exactly how some of their sex acts seem). Herron demonstrates both through the voice of Patricia in her describing the relationship to Eva, but also through this quote: "...he is an erected penis urging itself into a female hole, only that...John Christopher's penis in Patricia his daughter..." How odd it is to dehumanize the sex act when the characters involved are so horrifically human. Again with the volatility, sexuality comes and goes but it does so with extreme passion and extreme deference. Fickle.
Finally, On Subjectivity
Thereafter Johnnie is an onion. We know what we're looking at from the beginning but as we read we peel back layers, learn nuance, learn how unreliable every narrator is. We think we have a read on John Christopher, only to hear what he has to say on the matter. Eva and Cynthia Jane view the relationship differently than both Pat and Camille, the mother. Cynthia Jane's account is detailed, providing dates and times. Patricia's account is haphazard, likely influenced by trauma, and hard to decipher. It's incredible to me how such a theoretically simple conclusion "incestuous relationship between father and daughter" can be manipulated and obscured by the nature of interpretation. Of course, the way we deal with this in the real world is to just cast out ambiguity: the relationship was not loving, the father was in the wrong, there is a moral consequence for the action. And frankly, that may just be the way things need to be. But that's what I love about literature -- we can suspend our own ideas and hear it from characters deeply entrenched in the action. We are forced to confront how fickle our own interpretations are; indeed, often how inaccurate. To end, I'll leave this quote, spoken by Eva recounting the affair between John Christopher and Pat. It shows how much we want to have a concrete answer, but how inevitably it will evade us:
"At first we can trace the facts, identify all the forces and counterforces, and even assign blame, but it doesn't take long before the facts become lies, extensions of what we want and what we don't want to see, the facts are ourselves finally, and the more I focus on myself and the facts that mark out my life, the more pathetic I am, arbitrary in interpreting what happened, the mind is a stone running away with itself...the mind is incapable of fact."
Overall, this book is a challenging read, but is a compelling, rewarding tale of Blackness, sexuality, and the human experience.
January 4, 2017
I only read the first page. Written well, but artsy fartsy is not my bag man.
August 24, 2017
Sorry, can't say much about this. Made it to page 40 and gave up.
April 10, 2025
4.52
Excuse me, have you read this book? Have you heard of this author?
I need to read this again, like five more times.
Extremely difficult subject matter (incest, slavery, rape), and unlike anything else I've read. I'm tempted to say "not for the faint of heart," but I think the faint of heart should read it. Challenges my need for commas. One of the best medical chapters I've ever encountered ("The King of Hearts"), and I do like gross medical stuff in books in small doses.
The more I think about it, the more I realize how incredibly smart this book is. The allusions, the language, the images, the implications.
Each human body has its own system. I think myself into bodies until I understand them. I know the ways in which an individual human body intersects with all the ways of all human bodies. I know when not to fix something. I know when something that is wrong is supposed to be wrong. I cut deeply and neatly without waste. I sew bodies back up again. I can do it. I know how to read the signs. You don't know how to read the signs. You think the signs are in heaven. The signs are here from in front of you and you hate them. You hate snot and slime. Snot and slime are signs. You hate spit and pus. Spit and pus are signs. You hate putrid sores and stink. You don't understand. You don't understand anything. You hate life. You hate human life. I love human life.
Soon to be re-released by McNally Editions.
Excuse me, have you read this book? Have you heard of this author?
I need to read this again, like five more times.
Extremely difficult subject matter (incest, slavery, rape), and unlike anything else I've read. I'm tempted to say "not for the faint of heart," but I think the faint of heart should read it. Challenges my need for commas. One of the best medical chapters I've ever encountered ("The King of Hearts"), and I do like gross medical stuff in books in small doses.
The more I think about it, the more I realize how incredibly smart this book is. The allusions, the language, the images, the implications.
Each human body has its own system. I think myself into bodies until I understand them. I know the ways in which an individual human body intersects with all the ways of all human bodies. I know when not to fix something. I know when something that is wrong is supposed to be wrong. I cut deeply and neatly without waste. I sew bodies back up again. I can do it. I know how to read the signs. You don't know how to read the signs. You think the signs are in heaven. The signs are here from in front of you and you hate them. You hate snot and slime. Snot and slime are signs. You hate spit and pus. Spit and pus are signs. You hate putrid sores and stink. You don't understand. You don't understand anything. You hate life. You hate human life. I love human life.
Soon to be re-released by McNally Editions.
December 9, 2025
I wrote a review for this. But Goodreads aet it when I hit "post."
June 16, 2007
DC refashioned as a faerie tale land. Brilliant.
October 24, 2017
3rd time reading, but just as wickedly brilliant and exhilarating as the first.
Displaying 1 - 11 of 11 reviews