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Frostflower #2
Frostflower and Windbourne
The swordswoman Thorn has had enough of sorcerers. She has escaped outlawry and found a good warrior job. Then she is assigned the deeply dangerous duty of destroying the magic of a sorcerer named Windbourne who has been unjustly accused of murderer. Now Thorn is an outlaw again, fleeing death with the sorcerer she rescued and searching for her sorceress-friend Frostflower, while vengeful, powerful relatives of the murdered priest-lord seek their destruction. Melding mystery elements with fantasy, Frostflower and Windbourne is the sequel to the equally entertaining, thoughtful, and well-written Frostflower and Thorn . Other fine fantasies by Phyllis Ann Karr include At Amberleaf Fair and The Idylls of the Queen . --Cynthia Ward
234 pages, Mass Market Paperback
First published January 1, 1982
3 people are currently reading
65 people want to read
About the author
Phyllis Ann Karr
129 books31 followersPhyllis Ann Karr is an author of fantasy, romances, mysteries, and non-fiction. She is best known for her "Frostflower and Thorn" series and Matter of Britain works.
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Displaying 1 - 6 of 6 reviews
December 19, 2013
I read this book (and its predecessor) when I was a teen. I was a bookish child, and my allowance went mostly towards books at the awesome used bookstore in town, which stocked quite a lot of older fantasy and SF. I stumbled across Frostflower and Thorn (the first book), and upon finishing it, HAD to go back to find this one.
Now, I mostly expect that books I read as a teen to... not hold up. Some of my teen favorites, I can't read now, not always because they were badly written, but because of things I recognize now as offensive and problematic.
Such is not the case with Karr's Frostflower books. While the society is a patriarchy (in an odd sort of way -- women are warriors, because they are considered expendable; this is not something I have ever seen done before or since), the focus of the books is on women and their relationships with each other.
I felt the second was a little more info-dump-y than the previous, but it didn't bother me too much as I was interested in the world setting. I could have done with a little less of Eleva's personal monologue, since it took time away from Frostflower and Thorn, who I wanted to read about more... but she won me over, and by the end, I adored her.
This is definitely sword and sorcery in the style of Marion Zimmer Bradley's Sword & Sorceress anthologies. They are fun, intense stories about two women and the deep friendship they have. That is exceedingly rare, I find. There is also plenty of adventure, and in this book, a whodunit plot that has immense stakes. There is also serious personal growth on the part of Frostflower, especially; her questioning of the religion she was brought to is poignant and relevant to those of us who have doubts and questions about the religions we were raised in.
I wish there were more books about these two characters. I love them so, and want to read more about their adventures!
Now, I mostly expect that books I read as a teen to... not hold up. Some of my teen favorites, I can't read now, not always because they were badly written, but because of things I recognize now as offensive and problematic.
Such is not the case with Karr's Frostflower books. While the society is a patriarchy (in an odd sort of way -- women are warriors, because they are considered expendable; this is not something I have ever seen done before or since), the focus of the books is on women and their relationships with each other.
I felt the second was a little more info-dump-y than the previous, but it didn't bother me too much as I was interested in the world setting. I could have done with a little less of Eleva's personal monologue, since it took time away from Frostflower and Thorn, who I wanted to read about more... but she won me over, and by the end, I adored her.
This is definitely sword and sorcery in the style of Marion Zimmer Bradley's Sword & Sorceress anthologies. They are fun, intense stories about two women and the deep friendship they have. That is exceedingly rare, I find. There is also plenty of adventure, and in this book, a whodunit plot that has immense stakes. There is also serious personal growth on the part of Frostflower, especially; her questioning of the religion she was brought to is poignant and relevant to those of us who have doubts and questions about the religions we were raised in.
I wish there were more books about these two characters. I love them so, and want to read more about their adventures!
February 28, 2023
I really want to give this 5 stars because I think that Frost and Thorn have quickly become some of my favorite female characters I've ever read in fantasy, but it's (pseudo-)"objectively" really more like 4 stars and is a very different flavor to the previous book in both positive and negative ways. It might not be as good as the previous book, but I still really loved it.
I have a lot of thoughts on this book, so I've been putting off marking it as finished. It took me a long time to compile my thoughts into a review for the first book, even though it's a pretty much forgotten book that people are unlikely to care about and even less likely to read my thoughts upon, I felt compelled to do so because Frostflower and Thorn is one of the best low-fantasy books I've ever read.
My caring about Frostflower and Windbourne however, hinges upon how badly I wanted to keep reading endlessly about Frost and Thorn, and see the world they inhabit fleshed out even more, not necessarily upon any uniqueness within the plot and themes of it (although it does continue an exploration of some of the interesting religious and cultural themes in the prior novel).
It's much lighter reading when compared to the previous book. It can technically standalone, but I wouldn't recommend it as an introduction to anyone who isn't already attached to the characters or enamored with the writing...So:
Longer RTC if I decide to extoll its virtues, cry about why there aren't more books with Frost&Thorn in them (per Word of God in the 2012 ebook version: Karr wanted to write many more books and turn it into a series, but her publisher was not interested), and talk about what the whole deal with Windbourne is.
I have a lot of thoughts on this book, so I've been putting off marking it as finished. It took me a long time to compile my thoughts into a review for the first book, even though it's a pretty much forgotten book that people are unlikely to care about and even less likely to read my thoughts upon, I felt compelled to do so because Frostflower and Thorn is one of the best low-fantasy books I've ever read.
My caring about Frostflower and Windbourne however, hinges upon how badly I wanted to keep reading endlessly about Frost and Thorn, and see the world they inhabit fleshed out even more, not necessarily upon any uniqueness within the plot and themes of it (although it does continue an exploration of some of the interesting religious and cultural themes in the prior novel).
It's much lighter reading when compared to the previous book. It can technically standalone, but I wouldn't recommend it as an introduction to anyone who isn't already attached to the characters or enamored with the writing...So:
Longer RTC if I decide to extoll its virtues, cry about why there aren't more books with Frost&Thorn in them (per Word of God in the 2012 ebook version: Karr wanted to write many more books and turn it into a series, but her publisher was not interested), and talk about what the whole deal with Windbourne is.
November 20, 2025
Fortsetzung des ersten Teils mit den selben beiden Charakteren. Ein Sorcerer wird eines Mords bezichtigt und flieht mit Thorns Hilfe. Danach kehren sie zu dritt zurück, um den Mord aufzuklären. Ok, aber die Bösen waren schon sehr böse, und es waren mir teilweise zu viel Beschreibungen der Orte. Dafür war es nicht so brutal wie im ersten Teil.
November 18, 2014
I read this sequel more because I was interested in the world than in the characters.
While the characters, both main and some secondary, are more nuanced than they were in "Frostflower and Thorn", none are yet really three-dimensional, and the Bad Guys are rather unrelentingly so.
For books in which religion (of a sort) is so vital, there is little emphasis on it, or on why the various creeds have such a low tolerance for each other. There are some implications...but they are not really addressed. It was interesting that polytheism was here the "establishment" view!
I really don't think the world, as written, would work. It's patriarchal, to the point of (some) men having multiple wives, and while women can inherit and rule, they can do so only in the absence of a male heir. The people who are not in the ruling class marry monogamously, and seem to mostly be married. OK, fine so far, but...
ALL the warriors are women. And there are a lot of them! This would, I'd guess, pull at least a third of non-noble women out of the marriage market... so what happens with the men they would have married? there seems to be no excess of them, and there would be. I will note that women are warriors explicitly because men are "too important" to be so, and the status of the warriors is in decline; they used to also be priestesses, and now are not. It does remain a fact that one man can impregnate several women at the same time, while the reverse is not true; therefore, putting at least a third of your society's women in regular peril means that the population would likely decline, not increase.
There's also the reality that those who have the weapons and the training can pretty easily push their way to the top. Why don't the warriors here? Especially those with enough historical knowledge to regret their diminishing status?
I gave this book 3 stars, because while it did raise interesting questions, it didn't do much of anything with them. Also, the 2 main character sorceri got tiresome.
While the characters, both main and some secondary, are more nuanced than they were in "Frostflower and Thorn", none are yet really three-dimensional, and the Bad Guys are rather unrelentingly so.
For books in which religion (of a sort) is so vital, there is little emphasis on it, or on why the various creeds have such a low tolerance for each other. There are some implications...but they are not really addressed. It was interesting that polytheism was here the "establishment" view!
I really don't think the world, as written, would work. It's patriarchal, to the point of (some) men having multiple wives, and while women can inherit and rule, they can do so only in the absence of a male heir. The people who are not in the ruling class marry monogamously, and seem to mostly be married. OK, fine so far, but...
ALL the warriors are women. And there are a lot of them! This would, I'd guess, pull at least a third of non-noble women out of the marriage market... so what happens with the men they would have married? there seems to be no excess of them, and there would be. I will note that women are warriors explicitly because men are "too important" to be so, and the status of the warriors is in decline; they used to also be priestesses, and now are not. It does remain a fact that one man can impregnate several women at the same time, while the reverse is not true; therefore, putting at least a third of your society's women in regular peril means that the population would likely decline, not increase.
There's also the reality that those who have the weapons and the training can pretty easily push their way to the top. Why don't the warriors here? Especially those with enough historical knowledge to regret their diminishing status?
I gave this book 3 stars, because while it did raise interesting questions, it didn't do much of anything with them. Also, the 2 main character sorceri got tiresome.
January 27, 2023
I love love loved the first book. This book, I barely finished.
It was bad enough that the two wonderful MCs from the first book lost a serious amount of screen time to newbies, but worse because the newbies were boring and unlikeable. Eleva is everything I'm supposed to admire, but came off without a sufficiently defined personality to be anything but a generically spunky gal. And Windbourne is the biggest tool this side of the fantasy equivalent of the Mississippi River. You can save his life and put yourself at risk for him, but all the thanks you'll get is him complaining about your crudeness or putting you off cheese. His endless whining and brooding made me want to hurl him off the side of a mountain. Ordinarily, I'd say two boring MCs out of four isn't so bad, but the plot hinges on your investment in the happiness and well-being of these two characters. Plus, it leaves Frostflower and Thorn criminally underused. To top it off, the mystery in this book isn't really that interesting, and I called the twist before it happened.
Buuuuut I gave this book three stars because I love Thorn even if I didn't get to see as much of her and the writing was still solid. The world-building is also pretty great. Still, the first book was sooooo much better, so that's the one I'll go on recommending.
It was bad enough that the two wonderful MCs from the first book lost a serious amount of screen time to newbies, but worse because the newbies were boring and unlikeable. Eleva is everything I'm supposed to admire, but came off without a sufficiently defined personality to be anything but a generically spunky gal. And Windbourne is the biggest tool this side of the fantasy equivalent of the Mississippi River. You can save his life and put yourself at risk for him, but all the thanks you'll get is him complaining about your crudeness or putting you off cheese. His endless whining and brooding made me want to hurl him off the side of a mountain. Ordinarily, I'd say two boring MCs out of four isn't so bad, but the plot hinges on your investment in the happiness and well-being of these two characters. Plus, it leaves Frostflower and Thorn criminally underused. To top it off, the mystery in this book isn't really that interesting, and I called the twist before it happened.
Buuuuut I gave this book three stars because I love Thorn even if I didn't get to see as much of her and the writing was still solid. The world-building is also pretty great. Still, the first book was sooooo much better, so that's the one I'll go on recommending.
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January 4, 2010I got this book in High School from a pal who was upset by the graphic description of female on male rape. It was a good fantasy read and I don't think anything is wrong with turning the tables on the Gorean norm.
Displaying 1 - 6 of 6 reviews