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Men's Lives
An eloquent portrayal of a disappearing way of life of the Long Island fishermen whose voices--humorous, bitter and bewildered--are as clear as the threatened beauty of their once quiet shore.
352 pages, Paperback
First published January 1, 1986
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230 people want to read
About the author
Peter Matthiessen
143 books912 followersPeter Matthiessen is the author of more than thirty books and the only writer to win the National Book Award for both non-fiction (The Snow Leopard, in two categories, in 1979 and 1980) and fiction (Shadow Country, in 2008). A co-founder of The Paris Review and a world-renowned naturalist, explorer and activist, he died in April 2014.
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Displaying 1 - 18 of 18 reviews
March 2, 2018
“Men’s Lives” is a sad elegy to a lost way of life, a scathing criticism of the lobbyists and misguided bureaucrats that helped destroy it, and a lively, informal history of the shore-fishing industry on Long Island.
Some chapters read like interviews, with little in the way of editing esoteric fishing terms or the informal "Bonacker" language. (The Bonac accent is said to be akin to the spoken language of the working class settlers who came from England in the 17th century; once proudly touted as a method for identifying “true” members of the fishing and farming community, it has now been rendered nearly extinct by the speech patterns of New York City). While at first it may be difficult to fully envision details and movements of crew members when a Cap’n is recounting events to Peter Matthiessen, it is nothing a few internet searches and some contextual reading can’t help overcome. For instance, there are three occasions where a particularly harrowing shore launch is recaptured in vivid detail and by the third re-telling, the reader has a better sense of how adverse “sets” or winds caused a dory to topple over, launching some crew members to shore while others were trapped in the undertow for several minutes. If the pace is too slow and the subject matter somewhat bland, you will at the very least learn something about net fishing - a few phrases, or just how it differs from casting.
Concentrated within the first third of the book titled “The Old Days,” some of the most powerful passages come through these interviews. When the elderly reflect on simpler times, wringing weather-beaten, scarred hands, you feel like you missed out on something special as well, no matter how easy it would be to swear off such wistful recollections with a simple “everything golden in retrospect.”
“In them days money was real scarce and food was cheap; fish, clams scallops, farm crops, and always plenty of potatoes, cabbage, left over in the fields, and homemade canned fruits, pies, nothing but the finest…This was the life, and time and money didn’t seem to matter as much as livin’ close together and bein’ friendly with everybody, not dog-eat dog like it is today.”
Indeed, from the earliest days of recorded history, when Native Americans enacted loose peace agreements with Dutch and English settlers, to the flourishing of fishing families such as the Havens, Conklins and Lesters, you get this overwhelming sense of bounty, of plenty, of open space and unkempt men.
The discussion of fish population levels through decades is set against a change in tourist population that moves in a single direction – up. While the “Baymen” are rather sanguine about the cyclical nature of fish prevalence, the cherished striped bass being sparse for over a half century, from the 1880s to the 1940s - it does not make the present-day scarcity of fish any less heart-wrenching when set against their changing environment onshore. Tourists’ attitude towards the haul-seining crews becomes ever more intolerant, while reel-and-rod “sportsman” begin to push for legislation that is non-uniform in application.
The transformation of Eastern Long Island from a small, somewhat self-sustaining economy to one of second homes and beach-side resorts takes place over the latter two-thirds of the book in sections titled “The Fifties” and “Modern times.” The hook that eventually snagged the haul-seining industry came from increasing number of anglers, who had been lobbying the State Legislature at Albany for the passing of a ''bass bill'' designed to prohibit commercial fishermen from netting altogether, finally got a size limit passed in 1983.
Matthiessen openly criticizes the anglers – who use conservation as their fashionable flag of convenience – although little scientific evidence suggested that seining/netting was an important factor in the mysterious annual fluctuations of the bass shoals. The author argues that applying size limits on catches would lead costs to fall disproportionately on net-fishing crews, who have to ship their catch as full bodied fish to city markets, whereas anglers would fillet an illegal fish on the boat and take it home or sell it locally.
While the groups of “outsiders” are plentiful: angler lobbyists, misguided bureaucrats and self-righteous tourists, the story-line is the same. When people, from all walks of life, fight over the same stretch of land, when we are forced to deal with beautiful, yet scarce resources, some group has to lose.
True, you could easily call the author’s own “authenticity” into question - a city-born, Yale trained writer who identifies with the first hordes of writers and artists travelling east in the 1950s, Matthiessen subtly tries to separate himself from those wryly referred to as “Upislanders.” Matthiessen had the luxury of working as a fisherman for only three years before departing for more exotic locales, enjoying a rather successful career as naturalist, award winning fiction writer, journal editor and short-term CIA agent.
But the author’s admiration of these noble men seems genuine and his access to the often clannish world of commercial fishermen was extremely valuable; few other writers could put together such a moving and detailed historical account. The Baymen seem to confide in Matthiessen, fighting to make sense of a hard life in moods that alternate between somber and blithe.
"Independence costs you a lot of money. I starved myself to death for independence when I could have good money at a trade. You ever seen somebody ever get fired from fishin? No, no! You’re just glad to find someone stupid enough to go fishin with you.
..I’m gonna put this goddamn oar over my shoulder and head west, and the first sonofabitch asks me what it is, that’s where I stick it in the ground and settle.."
In the end, arguing over whether these men trusted Matthiessen because he had actually been a fisherman is useless. “Men’s Lives” is a labor of love, produced by an accomplished and talented author. If Matthiessen didn’t write this book, the poetry of such voices may have never been heard.
Some chapters read like interviews, with little in the way of editing esoteric fishing terms or the informal "Bonacker" language. (The Bonac accent is said to be akin to the spoken language of the working class settlers who came from England in the 17th century; once proudly touted as a method for identifying “true” members of the fishing and farming community, it has now been rendered nearly extinct by the speech patterns of New York City). While at first it may be difficult to fully envision details and movements of crew members when a Cap’n is recounting events to Peter Matthiessen, it is nothing a few internet searches and some contextual reading can’t help overcome. For instance, there are three occasions where a particularly harrowing shore launch is recaptured in vivid detail and by the third re-telling, the reader has a better sense of how adverse “sets” or winds caused a dory to topple over, launching some crew members to shore while others were trapped in the undertow for several minutes. If the pace is too slow and the subject matter somewhat bland, you will at the very least learn something about net fishing - a few phrases, or just how it differs from casting.
Concentrated within the first third of the book titled “The Old Days,” some of the most powerful passages come through these interviews. When the elderly reflect on simpler times, wringing weather-beaten, scarred hands, you feel like you missed out on something special as well, no matter how easy it would be to swear off such wistful recollections with a simple “everything golden in retrospect.”
“In them days money was real scarce and food was cheap; fish, clams scallops, farm crops, and always plenty of potatoes, cabbage, left over in the fields, and homemade canned fruits, pies, nothing but the finest…This was the life, and time and money didn’t seem to matter as much as livin’ close together and bein’ friendly with everybody, not dog-eat dog like it is today.”
Indeed, from the earliest days of recorded history, when Native Americans enacted loose peace agreements with Dutch and English settlers, to the flourishing of fishing families such as the Havens, Conklins and Lesters, you get this overwhelming sense of bounty, of plenty, of open space and unkempt men.
The discussion of fish population levels through decades is set against a change in tourist population that moves in a single direction – up. While the “Baymen” are rather sanguine about the cyclical nature of fish prevalence, the cherished striped bass being sparse for over a half century, from the 1880s to the 1940s - it does not make the present-day scarcity of fish any less heart-wrenching when set against their changing environment onshore. Tourists’ attitude towards the haul-seining crews becomes ever more intolerant, while reel-and-rod “sportsman” begin to push for legislation that is non-uniform in application.
The transformation of Eastern Long Island from a small, somewhat self-sustaining economy to one of second homes and beach-side resorts takes place over the latter two-thirds of the book in sections titled “The Fifties” and “Modern times.” The hook that eventually snagged the haul-seining industry came from increasing number of anglers, who had been lobbying the State Legislature at Albany for the passing of a ''bass bill'' designed to prohibit commercial fishermen from netting altogether, finally got a size limit passed in 1983.
Matthiessen openly criticizes the anglers – who use conservation as their fashionable flag of convenience – although little scientific evidence suggested that seining/netting was an important factor in the mysterious annual fluctuations of the bass shoals. The author argues that applying size limits on catches would lead costs to fall disproportionately on net-fishing crews, who have to ship their catch as full bodied fish to city markets, whereas anglers would fillet an illegal fish on the boat and take it home or sell it locally.
While the groups of “outsiders” are plentiful: angler lobbyists, misguided bureaucrats and self-righteous tourists, the story-line is the same. When people, from all walks of life, fight over the same stretch of land, when we are forced to deal with beautiful, yet scarce resources, some group has to lose.
True, you could easily call the author’s own “authenticity” into question - a city-born, Yale trained writer who identifies with the first hordes of writers and artists travelling east in the 1950s, Matthiessen subtly tries to separate himself from those wryly referred to as “Upislanders.” Matthiessen had the luxury of working as a fisherman for only three years before departing for more exotic locales, enjoying a rather successful career as naturalist, award winning fiction writer, journal editor and short-term CIA agent.
But the author’s admiration of these noble men seems genuine and his access to the often clannish world of commercial fishermen was extremely valuable; few other writers could put together such a moving and detailed historical account. The Baymen seem to confide in Matthiessen, fighting to make sense of a hard life in moods that alternate between somber and blithe.
"Independence costs you a lot of money. I starved myself to death for independence when I could have good money at a trade. You ever seen somebody ever get fired from fishin? No, no! You’re just glad to find someone stupid enough to go fishin with you.
..I’m gonna put this goddamn oar over my shoulder and head west, and the first sonofabitch asks me what it is, that’s where I stick it in the ground and settle.."
In the end, arguing over whether these men trusted Matthiessen because he had actually been a fisherman is useless. “Men’s Lives” is a labor of love, produced by an accomplished and talented author. If Matthiessen didn’t write this book, the poetry of such voices may have never been heard.
June 11, 2008
This is an insightful and well-researched book about the lives and struggles of commercial fisherman who live and work on the south fork of Long Island. In it the author chronicles the hardships these men face trying to make a living amidst increased government regulation and restriction. Clearly this remains a controversial issue and the author is fair in presenting differing points of view. The question remains whether such regulations are necessary (for example the legal length of sea bass) and should there be different regulations for the "sport" fisherman as opposed to the "commercial" fisherman. The title comes from a quote "its not the fish you are buying, its men's lives". Recommended for those who love the sea or just love to fish.
February 4, 2018
Good history of Long Island the east end. The hardships of fishing for a living and the decline of the live. Only been to Long Island once but I grew up by the Pacific Ocean and as a kid watched the decline of the fishing in the harbor where I grew up. I now live on the water in a sailboat not far from where the large fishing industry in San Pedro once existed but is only a ghost of what was in the past.
August 24, 2009
The "men's lives" are those of the fishermen of the south fork of Long Island (now my neighbors). The quality of their lives is as often decided by quotas set in Albany or by the competing demands of sports fishermen as it is by the wind and the tides. Matthiessen learned to go haul-seining with the baymen and evokes the joy, hard work and fragility of life on the water.
July 22, 2022
Social history of Long Island’s south fork focusing on the decline of and eventual end of its prior main industry—fishing. A sad commentary in many ways, especially the story of those “men” (Hence the title Men’s Lives) whose livelihood was taken from them by the rapacious, greedy, unfeeling well-heeled NY City’s barons who took (bought) their land (The Hampton), constructed their mega-mansions, and forced (priced) the fisherman and their families out of their homes and the livelihood that they loved. A social history, yes; a sad one, most certainly. And the author, Peter Matthiessen, knew of what he spoke and wrote, for he was on the the fishermen.
August 7, 2022
There may be more difficult ways to sustain a lifestyle, but scant few have had unimaginable attraction of the commercial fisherman of Long Island.
The author, a Yale graduate, spent four years working as a fisherman in the Atlantic and LI’s numerous bays. He is uniquely positioned to tell the story of this dying breed of watermen. Yet, even he is left to wonder why the allure of this life continue to pull so strongly on those who are most aware of their precarious future.
A niche book for sure that will appeal to those who have witnessed the collision of developers & sport fishermen versus the dwindling commercial fishery of eastern Long Island.
The author, a Yale graduate, spent four years working as a fisherman in the Atlantic and LI’s numerous bays. He is uniquely positioned to tell the story of this dying breed of watermen. Yet, even he is left to wonder why the allure of this life continue to pull so strongly on those who are most aware of their precarious future.
A niche book for sure that will appeal to those who have witnessed the collision of developers & sport fishermen versus the dwindling commercial fishery of eastern Long Island.
August 23, 2019
I found this a hard book to get into. In it, Peter Mattheissen tells the story of some of his neighbors in the southeastern part of Long Island who have worked and work as commercial fishermen. The book includes no map and there is not much background information given on the people he interacts with about their fishing. As a non-local, I found it hard to understand the full picture, and he doesn't add much to help you understand the broader picture. It gives a picture of their lives, this industry and this place, but it remains a very incomplete picture for most of us.
February 26, 2022
This author always opens up worlds within our society that I never knew existed. In this instance it is a historical narrative about the lives of actual fishermen living out of Long Island. I found it very interesting and educational.
April 3, 2018
I enjoyed this look into the history of the fishing communities on Long Island, NY. Its a story that applies to the story of working people everywhere.
December 17, 2014
size limits are the problem with commercial fishing. Agreed.
When I first read this, I wished I had never bashed commercial draggers or long liners, or anyone who works on the sea. I felt guilty. Mathiissen makes these guys out to be wonderful hard working, resourceful men,very hard working, which they were, including digging for eels in 10 bellow weather. These were a proud group. And for the most part they probably were. Decent harvesters of the sea. It all seemed so holesome, so innocent, before wall street money erected huge homes, that had huge green lawns, that leaked toxins into estuaries. and much of it was. But the ocean as we have found out, is not as easy to harvest as a field. With technology, gps, radar etc.. stuff changed. mainly the wholesale slaughter of fish.
I also agree that there should be NO size limit when it comes to fish caught in a net, as the fish will die anyway. Why has this rule not been changed? will it ever? does Washington know that all fish caught in nets die, so there is no need for size limits?
I worked on a dragger for a short time, but , when I saw the by-catch waists I could not go on. Thousand's of pounds of beautiful fish thrown over dead, senselessly.
what this book does not show is the dark side of commercial fishing yes they are many wonderful men. A lot also beat there wives, many killed people while drunk driving. Some raped women, more than other occupations? Yes! Go to a local south sure library and dig into some archives
IN the eighties, and early nities, there was much money to be made by fishing for Tile fish, if you don't think that a lot (centainly not all) of the crew of these boats were full full of Heroin /crack addicts, you are simply wrong. MAybe it is because the crews wanted to block out the waste they witnessed while out? Who would not? I don't know about tile fishing but I know draggers see dead: whales, sea turtles, porposes, sea loins, dead in their nets, woudnt you want to block that out too They would return from fishing , pick up a 5 grand check, and return to the boat the next week broke.
I don't know, maybe some day and educated literate crew member will write a true tell all, called MEns lives, but who will read it?
jeff Nichols author of Caught
When I first read this, I wished I had never bashed commercial draggers or long liners, or anyone who works on the sea. I felt guilty. Mathiissen makes these guys out to be wonderful hard working, resourceful men,very hard working, which they were, including digging for eels in 10 bellow weather. These were a proud group. And for the most part they probably were. Decent harvesters of the sea. It all seemed so holesome, so innocent, before wall street money erected huge homes, that had huge green lawns, that leaked toxins into estuaries. and much of it was. But the ocean as we have found out, is not as easy to harvest as a field. With technology, gps, radar etc.. stuff changed. mainly the wholesale slaughter of fish.
I also agree that there should be NO size limit when it comes to fish caught in a net, as the fish will die anyway. Why has this rule not been changed? will it ever? does Washington know that all fish caught in nets die, so there is no need for size limits?
I worked on a dragger for a short time, but , when I saw the by-catch waists I could not go on. Thousand's of pounds of beautiful fish thrown over dead, senselessly.
what this book does not show is the dark side of commercial fishing yes they are many wonderful men. A lot also beat there wives, many killed people while drunk driving. Some raped women, more than other occupations? Yes! Go to a local south sure library and dig into some archives
IN the eighties, and early nities, there was much money to be made by fishing for Tile fish, if you don't think that a lot (centainly not all) of the crew of these boats were full full of Heroin /crack addicts, you are simply wrong. MAybe it is because the crews wanted to block out the waste they witnessed while out? Who would not? I don't know about tile fishing but I know draggers see dead: whales, sea turtles, porposes, sea loins, dead in their nets, woudnt you want to block that out too They would return from fishing , pick up a 5 grand check, and return to the boat the next week broke.
I don't know, maybe some day and educated literate crew member will write a true tell all, called MEns lives, but who will read it?
jeff Nichols author of Caught
January 4, 2018
According to the Goodreads rating system, five stars is "amazing." And I suppose for those interested in commercial fishing, Men's Lives is that rare book which reaches in and really touches the lives of commercial fishermen working the north end of Long Island. Whalers, clam-diggers, oystermen and fishermen with a tradition going back 300 years, these Long Island Baymen at the end of Long Island have the advantage of having a remarkable writer translate their lives--and seemingly dying traditions--into this book.
Born into a wealthy New York family, Mathiessen stepped down from his place of privilege to spend three years in the 1950s working as a beach seiner along the east shore of Long Island. This book marks his return to the Baymen, where he interviewed them and again followed their lives, from 1983 into 1984.
In some ways this book is an elegy. Under pressure from both commercial and amateur surfcasters, governor Cuomo signed a law that bass had to be at least 24 inches long to be sold. It didn't really make sense as large bass are female and smaller ones male, but the pressure being exerted on various politicians by surfcasters was too much to bear and they caved in. The commercial fishermen of Long Island, already facing hard times found they were going to get even harder. The book ends with children from the established fishing families explaining why they wouldn't become commercial fishermen.
The story is sad as the only people in the area one could describe as almost aboriginal--coming as so many of them did with the first immigrations from Britain--are by the end of the book leaving the profession that made them distinct and proud.
Most importantly, Matthiessen understand the people he's writing about, their values and way of life, and is able to transmit all this to us, the reader, with a lovely, fluid writing style that artfully uses the voices of the fishermen themselves to tell so much of their tale. I put this in the top ten books to read about fishing.
Born into a wealthy New York family, Mathiessen stepped down from his place of privilege to spend three years in the 1950s working as a beach seiner along the east shore of Long Island. This book marks his return to the Baymen, where he interviewed them and again followed their lives, from 1983 into 1984.
In some ways this book is an elegy. Under pressure from both commercial and amateur surfcasters, governor Cuomo signed a law that bass had to be at least 24 inches long to be sold. It didn't really make sense as large bass are female and smaller ones male, but the pressure being exerted on various politicians by surfcasters was too much to bear and they caved in. The commercial fishermen of Long Island, already facing hard times found they were going to get even harder. The book ends with children from the established fishing families explaining why they wouldn't become commercial fishermen.
The story is sad as the only people in the area one could describe as almost aboriginal--coming as so many of them did with the first immigrations from Britain--are by the end of the book leaving the profession that made them distinct and proud.
Most importantly, Matthiessen understand the people he's writing about, their values and way of life, and is able to transmit all this to us, the reader, with a lovely, fluid writing style that artfully uses the voices of the fishermen themselves to tell so much of their tale. I put this in the top ten books to read about fishing.
January 28, 2016
Having just reread this book after 25 years I remembered anew why I liked it so much back then, the summer I turned 40. Despite having no experience with commercial fishing of any kind, I felt a distant kinship with these rough men, a respect for their skill and knowledge of the sea, a sadness at the erosion of their ability to practice their craft due to the constant onslaught of development, bad laws and bad luck.
Matthiessen offers a wealth of detail (probably more than many people will appreciate) about the dying shore-based fishery of eastern Long Island and the families that have been earning their living for generations by its practice. A relative newcomer, he earned the respect and affection of his subjects by fishing with a prominent crew for 3 years in the 1950s, then lending a hand to various crews in the years before the book was written, 3 decades later.
A beautifully written book, "Men's Lives" is a poignant and eloquent elegy to a dying craft and the men who practiced it.
Matthiessen offers a wealth of detail (probably more than many people will appreciate) about the dying shore-based fishery of eastern Long Island and the families that have been earning their living for generations by its practice. A relative newcomer, he earned the respect and affection of his subjects by fishing with a prominent crew for 3 years in the 1950s, then lending a hand to various crews in the years before the book was written, 3 decades later.
A beautifully written book, "Men's Lives" is a poignant and eloquent elegy to a dying craft and the men who practiced it.
August 10, 2016
This book lacks a clear direction. Sometimes it's a bland oral history of South Fork fishermen. Other times it's a commentary on fish regulation rules, gentrification of the Hamptons, or life as a fisherman. It was at its best when it was an autobiographical account of the author's time as a commercial fisherman and charter captain. What it's not is a book I would recommend, save for descendants of the fishing families or those very interested in South Fork fishing history. I don't know why I read the whole thing.
February 21, 2011
Great pictures of the old ways fishing on Long Island sea. Stories of death at sea. Stories about the loss of the old ways.
Some of the pictures are of Indians of the Shinecock tribe.
If memory serves me correctly a chapter contained a fisherman's story about his friend. He looked at his friend fishing near the surf line on a not too rough day and looked over seconds later and the boat was gone without a trace. Such is life at sea!
Some of the pictures are of Indians of the Shinecock tribe.
If memory serves me correctly a chapter contained a fisherman's story about his friend. He looked at his friend fishing near the surf line on a not too rough day and looked over seconds later and the boat was gone without a trace. Such is life at sea!
November 28, 2007
I originally picked this book up (literally) because it looked so bad. Turns out it is about fishing, and it's STILL not bad.
September 4, 2009
Good account of the lives of professional fishermen on Long Island
January 6, 2013
I knew the fishermen in this book. I could watch them for hours when I was a teenager camping on the beach some 50 years ago. Peter's observations and friendships in words.
January 31, 2016
What once was on the East End, gone forever now...
Displaying 1 - 18 of 18 reviews