Trial by Treason

The Enchanter General #2

by Dave Duncan

A burgeoning Saxon enchanter confronts a demonic plot against the king in the sequel to Ironfoot, a historical fantasy series set in twelfth century England.

King Henry, campaigning in France, receives a muddled warning of a treasonous conspiracy in Lincoln Castle, his great fortress in the center of England. His enchanters report that the letter contains both truth and lies, but cannot determine which is which. Putting little stock in the warning, he sends an eager young knight to lead a troop of men and investigate, and since the letter includes hints of magic, Henry orders him to enlist the help of Durwin, the young Saxon whose education he has been financing these last two years.

Durwin takes an assistant and accompanies the troop to Lincoln, but quickly finds his blossoming abilities as a sage are not warmly received. Upon reaching town, it only takes a couple of hours for Durwin to realize that they are up against a vast Satanic conspiracy—and his companions may have already fallen into a deadly trap!

Genres: Fantasy, Historical Fiction, Historical Fantasy, Mystery, Audiobook, Alternate History, Historical

296 pages, Paperback

First published October 1, 2018

About the author

Originally from Scotland, Dave Duncan lived all his adult life in Western Canada, having enjoyed a long career as a petroleum geologist before taking up writing. Since discovering that imaginary worlds were more satisfying than the real one, he published more than 60 novels, mostly in the fantasy genre, but also young adult, science fiction, and historical.

He wrote at times under the pseudonym Sarah B. Franklin (but only for literary purposes) and Ken Hood (which is short for "D'ye Ken Whodunit?")

His most successful works were fantasy series: The Seventh Sword, A Man of His Word and its sequel, A Handful of Men, and seven books about The King’s Blades. His books have been translated into 15 languages, and of late have been appearing in audiobook format as well.

He and Janet were married in 1959. He is survived by her, one son and two daughters, as well as four grandchildren.

He was both a founding and honorary lifetime member of SFCanada, and a member of the CSFFA Hall of Fame.

Reviews

[Lorena · Rating 5 out of 5]

I've been holding on to this one for a few months, because it seemed likely to be my last chance to read a brand new Dave Duncan book, and I wasn't quite ready for that yet. I hear that the next book in this series (Merlin Redux) was already written at the time of his passing, and I shall hold out hope that it will be published as promised by Nightshade Books in fall 2019.

In the meantime, this book has everything I have always loved about Duncan's work. His characters are smart but believable, the settings are vividly conveyed without weighing down the narrative, and the plot is cracking and action-packed. I thoroughly enjoyed every minute of it. RIP, Mr. Duncan, and many thanks for your wonderful work.

[Tim Hicks · Rating 4 out of 5]

As always, a solid piece of enjoyable storytelling from a master of same.

I didn't read #1, but I'm almost glad I didn't. I like the idea of starting with "so here I am with a toolbox of shiny new magic, what will I do?"

Everything's believable, the magic is limited, the history was researched, the logic holds up, the characters are mostly well drawn, and the pace is good. Some of the good guys are a little too good, but I can live with that. And there's enough humour, but not too much.

Recommended for age 12 and up, and just fine for old folks like me.

[Steve · Rating 4 out of 5]

In the realm of historical fantasy, few authors manage to capture the essence of the genre as deftly as Dave Duncan does in "Trial By Treason." This audiobook, narrated with the perfect blend of gravitas and wit by Tim Campbell, is the second installment in The Enchanter General series. It continues the tale of Durwin, a Saxon enchanter in twelfth-century England, who finds himself embroiled in a plot that could shake the very foundations of the kingdom.

The story begins with King Henry, who is away campaigning in France, receiving a cryptic warning of a treasonous conspiracy at Lincoln Castle. Skeptical of the letter's veracity, he dispatches a young knight to investigate, accompanied by Durwin, whose magical education he has sponsored. Upon arrival in Lincoln, it becomes clear that Durwin and his companions are up against a vast Satanic conspiracy, and the danger they face is far greater than they anticipated.

Duncan's writing is a tapestry of meticulous historical research and imaginative fantasy. He weaves a narrative that is as educational as it is entertaining, providing a window into a period of history that is often overshadowed by its own myths and legends. The author's attention to detail is evident in every aspect of the book, from the political intricacies of the time to the nuanced portrayal of magic as a force intertwined with the physical and spiritual realms.

Tim Campbell's narration is a triumph, capturing the essence of each character with a distinct voice that brings the medieval world to life. His performance is particularly commendable when voicing Durwin, whose journey from a naive scholar to a sage enchanter is at the heart of the story. Campbell's ability to convey the character's inner turmoil and growth is a testament to his skill as a narrator.

The audiobook's pacing is brisk, with a plot that unfolds with the urgency of a thriller. Duncan does not shy away from action, and the scenes of magical combat are as vivid as they are thrilling. However, it is in the quieter moments that the story truly shines. The interactions between Durwin and the other characters are filled with the kind of depth and complexity that is the hallmark of great fantasy writing.

"Trial By Treason" is not without its flaws. Some may find the climax a tad underwhelming, and there are moments where the narrative seems to meander. Yet, these are minor quibbles in what is otherwise a masterful piece of storytelling. The book ends on a satisfying note, tying up loose ends while leaving the door open for further adventures.

In conclusion, "Trial By Treason" is a standout audiobook that will delight fans of historical fantasy. Dave Duncan's storytelling prowess, combined with Tim Campbell's exceptional narration, makes for an immersive listening experience. It is a tale of magic, intrigue, and betrayal that captures the imagination and transports the listener to a time when the line between history and fantasy was blurred by the beliefs and fears of those who lived it. Whether you're a longtime fan of Duncan or a newcomer to his work, this audiobook is a journey worth taking.

[Kathy · Rating 4 out of 5]

Tidy mystery with a bit of magic thrown in. Set in the time of Henry ll, the king receives a criptic message that hints at treason and magic. He sends a young knight and his entourage to get Durwin, a student of magic. They go to Lincoln Castle and encounter a conspiracy more horrific than they could have imagined. Spare, intellegent writing moves the story along.

[Laura · Rating 3 out of 5]

Dave Duncan was my favorite author through my young adult life and as he died a while back I have been saving this one. Of course it is a solid story, and I love the blend of historical fiction with fantasy, he is one of the best at it.

[Sammy · Rating 5 out of 5]

A little slower to get started than the first book in the series, Ironfoot, but an absolute cracking read nonetheless.
I really, really hope that the publishers will go ahead and publish the third book in the series (which Duncan had said on his blog in early 2018 was already written), despite Duncan's sad passing a couple of months ago. I'd have read ten more in this series given the chance!

[Metaphorosis · Rating 4 out of 5]

4 stars, Metaphorosis Reviews

Summary
Durwin, the Saxon now surprisingly become a familiares of the Norman king, is thrust in a treasonous plot. Armed only with a handful of spells and a pair of young allies, he comes up against dark, demonic danger.

Review
I really enjoyed Dave Duncan's work when I first encountered it in A Man of His Word, and that enjoyment lasted through several other series. After a while, I didn't like everything, but still thought very highly of Duncan's work. More recently, I finally got around to The Reluctant Swordsman, and didn't care for it. And toward the end of his life, it felt like he was rushing out trunked books that weren't really ready. They weren't bad, but they weren't great, and my memory Duncan started to tarnish. I wasn't sure whether I wanted to revisit some of the series I'd liked so much before, for fear they'd tarnish too.

The Enchanter General series, happily, has restored my faith. It's a YA adventure very much in the line of Duncan's earlier, stronger work - an appealing, engaging hero, an interesting world, good characters, a fun plot, etc. As I noted in my review of the first book in the series, Ironfoot, the series is very reminiscent of a YA Crystal Cave, but with more actual magic. There are no great surprises in this book, but it's a great deal of fun to read along. Whereas Ironfoot felt somewhat rushed, this moves at a quick but reasonable pace. All in all, a fine series to end with. I'm looking forward to the last book.

[Sean Randall · Rating 5 out of 5]

I really got into this: I’d been looking forward to reading it for ages and circumstances conspired to me having to wait a week or so from release date.

I wondered how it would go when our intrepid sage and his cantor started going their separate ways, but it turned out to work out very well indeed. The chapters hurl you from one pulse-pounding action to another and end in delightful spots, particularly the seventeenth, nineteenth, twenty-sixth and its successor. The adventure keeps you on your toes throughout and, immediately after reading Ironfoot for catch-up, was a true delight start to finish.

[Vanessa · Rating 4 out of 5]

So I’d never heard of Dave Duncan before this book showed up at my house. As the managing editor here at EBR I’m the one who gets the books and divvies them out. There used to be a time–when I first started here eight years ago–that Steve would send me stuff and I would read it because he told me to; sometimes I’d get to choose. Not anymore. I’ll admit that now it’s typical for me to read the first couple pages of everything that comes in and keep what I think looks interesting. I’ll also admit that the front cover of this book didn’t particularly grab me.

But then I read the first couple of pages. And then I read the first couple of chapters. Then I looked up Dave Duncan on the wiki and that dude has something like 40 books to his name! What dungeon have I been holed up in all these years? First I remedied it by reading TRIAL BY TREASON then I’ll continue to see what else he’s got.

This book is fun, moves fast, and is generally entertaining. Think of it as a medieval Dresden Files meets Terry Pratchet lite. Which means it won’t float everyone’s boat, and it isn’t particularly literary, but I hope readers who aren’t familiar with Duncan will find a new author for their “To Read” pile. It’s clever, a little quirky, and so easy to read.

TRIAL BY TREASON is about Durwin, newly sworn enchanter, and subject of His Majesty King Henry II, King of England (and most of France). In IRONFOOT, the first book of the series (TBT is the second), Durwin catches the attention of the king, who pays for his magical education, and when he’s finished, he’ll join the king’s cadre of useful underlings. But it seems Durwin must prove himself first because he’s sent with young Sir Neil to sort out a potential treasonous insurgence in Lincoln. Durwin takes with him enchanter-in-training Eadig, and soon finds out that he’s in over his head, because he’s up against black magic and the Satanists who lack the scruples to wield it.

As mentioned earlier, the story takes off from page one and moves forward at an engaging pace. I really enjoy books with definitive plot where all sorts of things happen. Everything builds nicely, and by the end everything wraps up well (including a chapter that felt tacked on at the end to resolve an important plot hole). There was a frustrating buffer between the two big scenes, as well as a climax that fell a little short of expectations, but that probably explains my personal sensibilities more than Duncan’s storytelling necessities.

Easily as great as the lively storytelling is the characterization. From page one Durwin’s foibles and strengths are laid out, and he doesn’t hold back. This story is mostly told from his point-of-view (some of it from Eadig) in past tense, so you can tell it’s an older man looking back with satisfaction and some regret on the misadventures of his youth. We see the other characters through Durwin’s eyes, and enjoy his delight at the cleverness and strengths of those around him. Eadig’s PoV chapters didn’t feel a whole lot different than Durwin’s, but they did their job.
The magic of 12th Century England, as imagined by Duncan, is a scattered learning from scrolls and books. The enchanters attempt to increase knowledge by creating small schools, one of which is where Durwin learns his craft. But Durwin has proved more clever than his schoolmaster sages, because he’s discovered that many of the old texts don’t work for a reason: enchanters don’t much like sharing and hide trip-wires in their texts. Remove the trip-wires and voila, spells that actually work. Said discovery gave Durwin something of a reputation, but now he must take his cleverness into the real world and apply it in a difficult situation. Strangely enough, Durwin didn’t really learn how to fight Satanists in school. We get to watch Durwin in action as he uses the spells he finds along the way and–gasp!–is even able to create one of his own. The magic is all well integrated into the story. Duncan also does us the favor of enough landscape and town description so we have a good idea of the kind of setting where Durwin and friends live: English countryside, castles, various homes, and even dungeons.

It’d be a fun book for older teenagers, as well as any parents who like to enjoy a little mystery and mayhem with their magic.

Recommended Age: 12+
Language: None
Violence: Some deaths, but without gruesome detail
Sex: Kissing

***Find this and other reviews at ElitistBookReviews.com***

[Robert Warner · Rating 5 out of 5]

Trial by Treason was an excellent follow-up to Ironfoot, which has become one of my personal favorite books. While I did not enjoy it quite as much as the first entry in the series, it was still a fascinating story that left me wanting more. The main character, Durwin, continues to be an exceedingly competent yet relatable protagonist, showing more flaws and miscalculations in this novel than in the previous. In addition, the setting; Norman-occupied England, is fantastically portrayed by Duncan. Despite the heavier fantasy elements in Trial by Treason, it was still a very believable and immersive journey.
All that said, the heavier fantasy elements I mentioned before were not without their cost. One of my favorite parts about Ironfoot was that the system of magic is so modest and well integrated into the setting that it requires very little belief on the part of the reader. How Duncan wrote it, it's almost easy to just assume that the method of enchantment practiced by the main characters was present during that period in English history. In Trial by Treason, however, the author delves more into this magical system and begins to work out its peculiarities. While interesting in its own right, this greater focus on the mystical did take away some of the sense of mystique for me, and at times I found my suspension of disbelief being challenged.
On a similar note, Durwin is also an exceedingly competent main character. Though he does make a fair share of mistakes, particularly in this novel, it can be easy to see him as an idealized character who succeeds at everything he attempts. On the opposite side of that coin, this is one of the very reasons I found myself liking him so much. Durwin is a confident and skilled young man, with much promise in his future, and it was easy for me to celebrate in his successes just as much as he did.
Though I had plenty negative to say in this review, overall Trial by Treason was an excellent read. I was hooked by Duncan's writing and immersed wholeheartedly in the setting just as I was in Ironfoot. I wouldn't call this particular volume an absolute favorite, but it certainly didn't disappoint either. I cannot wait for the next entry into the series.

[astaliegurec · Rating 2 out of 5]

Unfortunately Dave Duncan's 2018 novel "Enchanter General, Book 2: Trial by Treason" does not live up to its predecessor in the series. At the 59% point, when the protagonist asks a girl to marry him the day after meeting her (they've exchanged, perhaps, half a dozen sentences in that time), I had to give up on the book (as soon as I finished vomiting). But, wait. There's more:

- The first chapter sets up an artificial conflict between the protagonist and the person who should be his ally. Plus, that ally's behavior towards a full sage (i.e., magic user) is ridiculous. It's about the same as some random person coming up to Gandalf and kicking him in the shins.
- There's quite a bit of out-of-period stuff (wording, thought, behavior) in the book. If the author didn't want to follow historical behavior, he should have set these books in a different world instead of setting them in an alternate 12th century England.
- For some reason, Duncan drops foreshadowing comments into the text which pretty much destroy any trepidations you might normally have about what's going to happen to certain characters or how the plot is going to play out.
- I mentioned the marriage bit at the top of this review, but about one hour after meeting that girl, the protagonist asks for a kiss (remember, this is 12 century England).
- Around the point where we find out what's really happening, one of the characters finds himself in a situation where he could have easily grabbed the bad guys' primary tool and dropped it into the privy, moat, fire, etc.. He doesn't. But, then, I guess if he had, it would have been a really short book.
- The magic system is really silly. I felt the same in the first book, but its ramifications didn't really rear their head until this book. Essentially, anyone who can correctly read, understand, and chant some written words can, without risk, use magic. There's no cost, downside or balance. If there were requirements for actual power, some kind of personal cost to casting, and a backlash for failed spells, then that would be fine. But, without those, you ought to have total chaos.

So, even though I liked the first book, I'm rating this one at a Pretty Bad 2 stars out of 5 and won't be finishing the series.

[Royal · Rating 2 out of 5]

It's not easy to write a sequel
DNF @ 80%
Much of the problems with this can be summarised as an inability to grasp what made the original so...magical. I'll break it down into a couple of fundamental issues.

1. No kryptonite
The prequel left Durwin to be one of the best enchanter's in the land. Continuing from such a jumping point is hard since it becomes frustratingly simple of Durwin to sing his way out of most problems. So how did the author solve this? That is exactly the issue I have. Mr. Duncan seems to sidestep the issue by focusing large chunks of the story on his young chanter or have Durwin simply be unable to help. Durwin, the main character, is relegated to the role of a side character due to how passive his is. Heck, place any of Durwin's colleagues in the same situation as Durwin and the end result would've been exactly the same. This is a sharp contrast from his character's role in the first novel!

2. No mystery
What made the first novel so good was the fact that there were so many questions immediately presented to the reader which were then slowly answered, organically, as the book progressed. No such mystery is presented here. There are attempts but by the time they reach their destination, basically all the (scant few) questions are answered. This is most epitomised by the lack of any mystery and subsequent drama in the magic. The major conundrum with learning magic is solved within the first few pages of the book. It changed what used to be a unique system to be analogous to Harry Potter's "say a word, there's you magic".
So I hear you ask: "Why is having no mystery such a bad thing?". It's simple, without some information being held from the reader, there is little reason to continue reading. At that point you've already finished the novel. Most novels hold twists, world information relevant to the plot or exciting characters back from the reader until the right time, this novel does not and plays the entire story startling straight. As soon as I understood the plot, 40% in, I lost interest.

Summary
Many readers will enjoy the book, I have no doubt. It didn't annoy me as some other sequels have, but reading a shell of the first book isn't what I want to do with my spare time.

[Stephen C. Setzman · Rating 5 out of 5]

Clever, Entertaining and Educational

I enjoy almost all of David's efforts. I'm all honesty, I read this novel after David had passed on, so I had a slightly different perspective then when he was still alive. My favorites by him have always been the Seventh Sword and the Kings Blades. Although Trial by Treason is quite different than the Seventh Sword, there are some significant resemblances to the King's Blades Monster Wars and the Jaguar Knights. Duncan tends to treat black magic as totally plausible. He does so without causing the reader to feel the need to deny and doubt the plausibility of the stories. No mean feat in my opinion. I found both Trial by Treason and Ironfoot to actually be educational. Since I don't place any credibility in black magic, what I feel I learned was how people living from 1000 to 1500 could place faith in the practice. Think about what an incredible accomplishment that is.

Farewell Dave. I know you're doing a phenomenal job of entertaining our Lord with your stories in Heaven, we miss you enormously here.

[Jennifer Conroy-Schwartz · Rating 5 out of 5]

In a world where there are many authors who cannot finish their damn series there is Dave Duncan, the professional. He is one of the all time greats of Fantasy/fantastical historic fiction and he does not make you wait 10 years for the next GD book. His characters are well developed and interesting. His world make so much sense and are beautifully rendered. This is true for this series’s as well as all the others I have read. I love the depth of his characters and the depth of his worlds. Do I hope that he will eventually write a book that passes the Bechtel test? YES! I’d love to see a one of his female characters’ point of view as she kicks ass, but alas Mr. Duncan has yet to do this (as far as I know. If this this not true sent me the title because I am so on board. I want to read that book!) I will continue to read this series and this series makes me want to reread all the old Series as well.

[Jennybeast · Rating 5 out of 5]

Oh, this series! While the interminable wait for the next Dresden files book continues, at least there are some other kickass enchanters to follow, like Durwin, in 12th century England. Book 2 continues a strong start, fleshing out more of the setting (Lincoln, this time, and the outskirts of Oxford) and introducing several indomitable female personalities of the time period, and a dastardly satanic cell. Wonderful, and I can't wait for the next one. I do think it's hilarious that Durwin is constantly pointing out how his deficiencies have led to disaster, and then completely triumphs in the end, but I find it endearing rather then annoying that he has a sense of his own fallibility. Really hoping that the lovely Lovise and the plucky Eadwig continue to be central to future adventures.

Advanced Reader's copy provided by Edelweiss.

[Susan Wallace · Rating 4 out of 5]

Enjoyed this second novel in the Enchanter General trilogy just as much as the first. These novels are not big, fat books; they're just as long as they need to be. That said, there's enough room for all the goods - further development of our main character Durwin, and excellent fleshing out of a new host of secondary characters, along with a twisty plot sprinkled liberally with witty dialogue, evocatively described locales and scenery, and ... magic. Looking forward to starting the final novel in this series - which is also, sadly, the final novel in Dave Duncan's illustrious and prolific career as an awarded author of science- and fantasy fiction. I feel fortunate that there is still a largish series of his that I haven't read yet (The King's Blades), but know that even when I delve into, lose myself in, and finally finish it, that I will return to his works again and again.

[Lokita · Rating 2 out of 5]

To say that I finished this book is certainly stretching the truth, if not outright lying. Once I got to the bit with belching, writhing demons, I lost all interest and flipped to the end to see if Durwin got his lady.

The first book was so good. This one was so...stretched. Protracted. I was skeptical of satanists being the villains, and good grief, I haven't seen bad guys this cheesy or infuriating since I stopped watching cartoons. The main characters just kept getting caught, over and over. By the midway mark I wanted to throttle all the heroes as well as the satanists. And I am so very not here for whatever it is Duncan thinks demons are. Mike Carey, for all that he espouses no particular religion, treats demons with gravitas and fear. Duncan treats them like comic book monsters.

Ugh. At least it's over.

[Lynn · Rating 3 out of 5]

Having read this right on the heels of Ironfoot, my expectations were pretty high.

Unfortunately, this story suffers from what I call 'middle book syndrome'. The history is spot on, but it's difficult to take the evil plot seriously, especially as some of the solutions are of the quick fix type and tend to detract from the overall impact of the narrative.

The romance between Durwin and Lovise is sort of cute but a trifle OTT, and the ebook version I read could definitely have done with some basic editing, as there were a number of glaring errors that broke the flow of the story. Nevertheless, I am keen to tackle other Dave Duncan books; his style of writing is very easy to relate to.

I hope that the final book in this series is as good as Ironfoot.

[Jeff · Rating 5 out of 5]

Ok. Let’s start with the criticisms:
1. There is no mystery whatsoever to this story. Rather the protagonist lurches from one point to another
2. The romance in this is ham-fisted and without any subtlety
3. The villains are thin sketches.

End of the day, I just don’t care. This was a great read -likely to be a contender for my best of 2018 list. The adventures of Durwin continue to entertain in this incredibly easy read. The thin-ness of the plot is more than made up for in the depth of the world, it’s magic system, and, more importantly, the strength of the hero.

[Nicole Luiken · Rating 4 out of 5]

Well-done historical fantasy, set in England during the reign of Henry II. The magic system is well-thought out with a number of limitations, and I like how Durwin's knowledge of it expanded during the course of the novel. Lots of tension and twists as a new enemy is revealed.

It's a little strange reading this knowing the author recently died. I sincerely hope there are more books in the series in the pipeline.

[KathleenB · Rating 4 out of 5]

A good bit of real history mixed into a adventure involving magic, some good and some bad. Durwin is pretty standard for an underdog hero, but he’s likeable. His new sidekick Eadig could use a little more character, and so could Lovise, the love interest. Her and Durwin’s romance is thankfully not overdone, but it does seem a little rushed. The actual conspiracy ends up suggesting more potential trouble for possible future novels, and there are some not so subtle references to ‘the interesting adventure thing that happened 10 years later’ and such. Overall an entertaining mostly light read.

[AReader · Rating 3 out of 5]

Well written but disappointing

I also reviewed book one and mentioned I do think the author is fabulous, unfortunately this series is not up to the same level as his others. Everything feels too contrived, things just all go to well for the hero and, if in a pinch, the go to line is ‘I have a spell for that’. Lack of real intrigue, drama, and surprisingly enough — action make this a series which has met its end for me.

[Tony Hinde · Rating 4 out of 5]

Durwin is a comfortable character. I often found myself smiling at his honest and quirky inner dialogue. That's good because there was barely any mystery to uncover this time around. There was more action than sluthing.

I should probably only give this book a three-star rating but it drew me in so well that I finished the whole thing surprisingly quickly. That's a good sign.

[Charlie · Rating 3 out of 5]

The world & magic building system are by far the best part of this series. Honestly the 3rd book is the best of the 3 - gets into interesting world politics. Characters are a bit dated (typical fantasy sexism - not as bad as, say, Heinman, but hey.
Writing is fine, plot is great in the 3rd book, fine in the 1st 2.

[Mark · Rating 4 out of 5]

Still a phenomenal story, worthy of 4.5 stars! The adventures of Durwin are still thrilling, and I deeply enjoyed the cast of new characters. I hope we see more in this series because everything fits nicely. I like how the author weaves in real history! Strongly recommend!!

[Scott Wozniak · Rating 4 out of 5]

This was a fun continuation of the story. New adventure in a new place, facing bigger problems, but with better skills. Lots of great character growth. I'm looking forward to the final book in the series.

[Doug Murphy · Rating 5 out of 5]

An exciting, well written adventure to foil a magical plot against the king.

[Nancy · Rating 4 out of 5]

Book paraphrase
" I would think that having your shirt
spontaneously combust would distract even a
seasoned warrior."

[Ruth · Rating 4 out of 5]

This book has some truly horrifying scenes, so reader beware. That said, this was really good.

[Katherine · Rating 4 out of 5]

Very nice! Second in short series. So looking forward to reading the last Enchanter General. Sorry that I discovered Dave Duncan just recently and now he is no longer with us.