Sixth title in Titan Books' Marvel fiction reissue program: Stefan Petrucha puts his pen to the classic "Stone Tablet Saga," which ComicsReview.com calls "Stan Lee's Marvel and Spider-Man at their peak."
TAKE A SWING THROUGH SPIDER-MAN'S PAST!
Hoping to snag some rent-paying photos of his arachnid-like alter ego in action, Peter Parker goes looking for trouble--and finds it in the form of a mysterious, mythical stone tablet coveted by both the Kingpin and the Maggia! Caught in the crosshairs of New York's most nefarious villains, Peter also runs afoul of his friends--and the police! His girlfriend, Gwen Stacy, isn't too happy with him, either. And the past comes back to haunt him years later when the Maggia's assumed-dead leader resurfaces, still in pursuit of the troublesome tablet! Plus: With Aunt May at death's door, has the ol' Parker luck disappeared for good?
Stefan Petrucha (born January 27, 1959) is an American writer for adults and young adults. He has written graphic novels in the The X-Files and Nancy Drew series, as well as science fiction and horror. Born in the Bronx, he has spent time in the big city and the suburbs, and now lives in western Massachusetts with his wife, fellow writer Sarah Kinney, and their daughters. At times he has been a tech writer, an educational writer, a public relations writer and an editor for trade journals, but his preference is for fiction in all its forms.
This is a novelization of a story arc that was first told in the 1960's. In this one, two different crime organizations are attempting to get their hands on a tablet that is reported to hold a secret that is priceless. Everyone's favorite wall crawler soon finds himself in the middle of the action.
Even though this story is over fifty years old the author adapts it to modern times. I liked the story but it didn't blow me away. It had the traits of a Spider-man story with Peter having girlfriend and monetary problems, villains like Kingpin and the Lizard, and J.Jonah Jameson deriding the superhero whenever he can. With all these aspects I thought I would enjoy it more but it never got too exciting for me. I actually think I gave this book a three star rating in part because I am in the middle of watching season three of Daredevil so it was a nice personal connection with using the Kingpin character.
I needed a not so serious book since my last two books were lengthy tomes. This fits that bill but I just wish that it captured me more. It was a decent read and it did make me curious about the original story in the comics and how true this adaptation was. Maybe I will try that story sometime in the future.
As a re-imagining of the "Table of Time" saga from multiple issues of The Amazing Spider-Man, Spider-Man: Forever Young is a bit of a disappointment.
The strongest parts of the story are borrowed directly from a couple of issues in the Stan Lee/John Romita days of ASM. Filled to the brim with angst for Peter Parker, multiple villains for our favorite web-slinger to contend with and a McGuffin to drive the story (in this case, an ancient tablet that contains the formula for a fountain of youth serum), the first half of the story is entertaining, riveting and chock full of classic Spidey goodness.
Then we get to the second half of the story, which deviates wildly from Marvel continuity. Featuring a time jump that sums up the "Death of Gwen Stacy" epic in about ten minutes (at least in the Graphic Audio version), the story quickly devolves a bit into over the top Parker angst and a bunch of lackluster threats -- at least in the Graphic Audio version. Maybe it's just me but it's hard to find the Lizard all that compelling in a "movie in your mind" kind of way. The story brings back Silvermane, suffering from a condition in which he rapidly ages and then de-ages again, losing his memories in the process. Meanwhile, Aunt May is in the hospital and that tablet could hold the key to her survival -- but only if Peter is willing to betray everything he stands for to get her the help she needs.
At times in the second half of this graphic audio story, I found myself growing restless with the story that was unfolding. Part of this was the few minutes I wondered why Graphic Audio didn't decide to adapt the famous "Death of Gwen Stacy" storyline instead of the less known "Tablet of Time" saga. If you're looking for a full-on, great Spidey story that has the right level of angst and threat, you can't really go wrong with condensing the Green Goblin vs Spider-Man saga.
In the end, I got to the final moments and felt more relieved that it was all done rather than feeling satisfied with the story.
As an audio production, I can't fault this one, though. The voice-acting works well, the narration is crisp and helps flesh out the various fight scenes. Even the sound effect of Spidey shooting webs and then swinging around New York helps bring things to life.
It's just a shame the last half of the story didn't hold my attention.
Goodreads doesn't allow a half star: if it did, this would be a 3 and a half stars.
I like to take up a light read in between my heavy reads and this one sure gave me a much needed relief. I am a DC fan through and through but do like Spiderman. He broods a little less than another caped crusader from the DC world who is my absolute favourite when it comes to super heroes.
This one is where you see Superman as a regular guy struggling with his classes and the thought of losing his scholarship support. I liked the way the story is set in contemporary times and tackling issues of doubt, validation and peer support and pressure.
Spiderman as a super hero fights the super villains in this one too even as he battles with his personal demons but I loved the way he is like a regular guy full of witty come backs.
If you love to read up on superheroes, or need something light, go for this one.
Ich habe mich so sehr auf diesen Roman gefreut, denn Spider-Man ist mein absoluter Lieblingssuperheld. Aber mit dem Buch konnte ich einfach nichts anfangen. Und das lag hier leider am Schreibstil. Ich weiß nicht, ob es am Übersetzer oder am Autor lag (wahrscheinlich aber ersteres), ich fand den Stil unheimlich altbacken. Nicht einmal in den alten Spider-Man TV-Serien wird so seltsam geredet wie hier. Ist Spider-Man eigentlich ein echt cooler Typ, wirkte er mit den Sprüchen, mit denen er hier um sich wirft, richtig seltsam. Als steckt da kein Collegestudent in dem Kostüm, sondern ein 50 jähriger Mann, der betont versucht hip zu sein – und selbst das Wort hip ist noch moderner als die Sprache, die hier verwendet wird. Auch fand ich es befremdlich, dass erst von Peter gesprochen wird und sobald er das Kostüm anhat, von Spider-Man. Klar, es ergibt Sinn, fühlte sich beim Lesen aber seltsam an. Generell hätte es dem Buch wohl gut getan, wenn aus der Ich-Perspektive erzählt worden wäre. So konnte mich die Geschichte rund um den Kingpin leider nicht einnehmen und ich habe sie nach einem knappen Drittel abgebrochen.
The cover of the book is okay and the title is apt considering the plot. The language of the book is easy to understand and the plot will keep the reader hooked to the book throughout. I finished the book in one sitting. The narration is the book is at a moderte pace but it's gripping. The theme explored is the same as the other superhero novels but it was pretty interesting. The writing style is on point and it's crisp. The humour displayed by Spiderman himself is quite funny and will keep you entertained. The action scenes have been described so well that you can totally imagine them. Full of action, drama and romance, this was a thoroughly entertaining read. This was my first superhero novel and I'm going to read more and more because Spiderman: Forever Young was addictive.
3,5 ⭐️ Całkiem dobre czytadło jak na pierwszą książkę ze Spider-Manem jaką przeczytałam w życiu. W moim odczuciu były tu dwie części, jedna taka filmowa, pomieszanie lekkich klimatów z poważnymi a druga znacznie cięższa i taka smutna. Nie będę zdradzać zakończenia, ale można się go domyślić dosyć łatwo, w końcu mamy tu do czynienia z głównym bohaterem, który jest superbohaterem.
Z jakiegoś dziwnego powodu (zbyt dużo maratonowania Marvela we krwi?) chciałam żeby pojawił się tu Tony Stark i zrobił dramatyczne wejście, zwłaszcza w drugiej części książki, ale to dlatego, że lubię relacje Tony’ego i Petera xD
Jestem totalnie zielona w książkach z uniwersum Marvela, ale dla mnie całkiem spoko.
Lekkie, przyjemne, do relaksu na weekend na leżaku albo do pociągu myślę, że spisze się dobrze.
"Spider-Man, Spider-Man, Does whatever a spider can Spins a web, any size, Catches thieves just like flies Look Out! Here comes the Spider-Man."
I'm a HUGE HUGE Marvel girl (I also love my DC heroes too) and with all the Marvel movies coming out I just need to get my hands on every Marvel character related book. Even for characters I'm not a huge fan of.
Spider-Man - the high school nerd turned superhero because of a spider bite. Stefan Petrucha has done an amazing job taking Spider-Man's story and creating a great book for any and all Marvel fans. Even for those fans who haven't read every single comic book like myself. This was my first time reading anything Spider-Man related and I loved it from start to finish. Looking forward to other books about the local swinging Spider-Man.
This was an interesting novel. It was based on a storyline from 1969 involving an ancient tablet but "updated" for the modern world by changing various elements in it (such as referencing President Clinton in it as well as "modern-day" protest such as the protests against Wall Street) and having technology being at the current levels as opposed the level(s) of 1969 (such as the Internet, modern computers, cell phones, lasers to disrupt police scanners, specialized medical procedures, etc.). There is a two-year gap in the narrative . I know I said it was an interesting story, but it is "funny" how Peter Parker never seems to remember the "lessons" he learned at any given point in time.
On the bright side, the story was not nearly so negative in terms of Peter's self-loathing and self-hatred; neither did the story focus excessively on how down on himself Peter can be. There were "good" moments and "bad" moments for Peter, but in the end he never gave up or sullied his personal integrity in order for "better things" to happen. I do not know how much personal development or character development Peter underwent over the course of the narrative; he did seem to stand up to Harry a bit, which was "good" and a bit unusual. I would say that Vanessa Fisk actually had the most ("greatest") character development in the story, in my opinion. I thought she grew the most as a character. Peter might have been close second, but Wilson Fisk's wife changed the most, I felt.
I thought the "updating" of Peter's friends for modern society was fairly well done.
I did like how the author used various phrases as throwbacks and homage to the writing styles of the late 60s and early 70s comics. He would often use two words (an adjective and a noun) starting with the same letter over the course of the novel, which was fun to read.
It was kind of funny how there were no other super-heroes in the book. Some agencies and super hero teams are mentioned by name or in passing, but there are not really any other teams (such as the Fantastic Four or X-Men, let alone the Avengers) who are mentioned in the novel. S.H.I.E.L.D. was mentioned, however, so there is that.
Overall, I enjoyed the narrative. I thought the author did a good job (re)telling this story to make it "more relevant" for the 2010s (or so). Obviously, he has to "update" some of what he is writing about to make it more current for today's audiences, but I felt he did a good job in doing so. I thought he did a nice job turning a storyline in the comics into a novelized, prose-format. I enjoyed the book more than I thought I would, and I was glad that I read it.
This was more of a Kingpin book than a Peter Parker one really, which was kind of awesome as I got into the villain's strange complexity a bit from the original Daredevil show. Speaking of which, I still need to watch the new version. The narration took a little bit to get used to considering what the story is but it grew on me and gets easier to consume and stay invested in soon enough.
I was honestly bored with this story. I didnt feel like there was enough humor for Spider-man to be honest. I read the other book that was a prequel to the game for the ps4 and he was sarcastic and overall the Spidey I love, but this was just meh.
Great Book. Really explores human nature and the general idea of how too deal with loss. This makes Peter Parker really relatable and yet very heroic as well. Even though spiderman is the relatable type of superhero, this book shows us why, and does a good job of that.
3.8 de 5 estrellas. Emocionante y entretenido. Sin duda una adaptación del cómic que compensa la ausencia visual con sonidos que brindan una experiencia de 360° de la historia. Elegí a Spider-Man para que sea mi primer Graphic Audio porque es uno de mis superhéroes favoritos de Marvel. Sabía que si no me gustaba el formato, al menos estaría interesado con la historia. Pero no fue así. El formato es una maravilla y combinado con la historia lo vuelven una experiencia diferente a cualquier audiolibro normal. Empecemos entonces por la experiencia de Graphic Audio. Es un formato innovador con todo un reparto de voces y personajes que dan dinamismo a la historia. Recuerda mucho a lo que la gente antes se refería como radionovela. Más allá de escuchar varios actores haciendo un personaje cada uno, los efectos sonoros incluidos brindan a la historia el movimiento y dinamismo que las imágenes en el cómic lo harían. Además, al haber sido traído desde su formato de novela, ya muchas de las descripciones ya están cubiertas y el resto lo hacen los sonidos. Una experiencia que vale la pena intentar y que se amplíe para muchos más cómics y libros. Respecto a la historia. Es una trama que se desarrolla en un presente y dos años después, por lo que deja ese espacio entre ambas narraciones que explica brevemente en determinado punto de la segunda parte. Sin embargo, si me hubiese gustado tener mayor desarrollo de ello o al menos llenar ciertos espacios vacíos. Supongo que otros cómics cubren ello, así que lo investigaré en un futuro para leerlos. A términos generales, presenta un universitario Peter Parker con los problemas de su edad tratando de ser el buen amigo y vecino Spider-Man para su ciudad. Vemos muchos personajes alrededor de su vida y la historia presentada es original y diferente a todo lo que he visto sobre él. Recurre a viejos conocidos (como el Dr. Connor) y nuevos personajes para explicar lo que mueve la trama y su conclusión final. Algo que me agrada de este cómic es la manera en que la interacción de su vida como superhéroe y como estudiante es constante, no se descuida en ningún momento y lo sabe llevar de la mejor manera que puede. También muestra un lado muy humano de Peter al exponerlo a emociones fuertes como la pérdida, el dolor, decisiones moralmente desafiantes y fuertes que debe tomar. Algo importante que indicar: este novelización hecha audiolibro es una adaptación y reinvención de la “Stone Tablet Saga” presentada en cómics anteriores y traída al presente. Los cómics originales son: AMAZING SPIDER-MAN (1963) #68- 75, SPIDER-MAN: LIFELINE #1-3. Sin duda, repetiría la experiencia de graphic audio y seguiría leyendo sobre el buen superhéroe Spider-Man. Lo recomiendo para viejos y nuevos aficionados del cómic que deseen explorar una nueva aventura de Peter Parker y si intentan con el Graphic Audio, sepan que será una experiencia mejorada de un audiolibro.
"Spider-Man: Forever Young" by Stefan Petrucha, is actually two books in one volume. It covers the saga of Spider-Man encountering an ancient tablet that contains the recipe for eternal youth...of a sort. But, like all great things, that youth comes at a terrible cost. This story is from comics from so long ago that I actually read some of them (and I quit buying comics in 1990, when I was in high school).
In book one, Spider-Man is caught between Kingpin and the Maggia (run by aged crime boss Silvermane), who both want the ancient tablet. The author updated the story for the modern era, but the "campus radicals" aspects still bring to mind the 1960s. Some of those somewhat promising campus-related story threads go nowhere, however.
A lot of the "classic" Spider-Man supporting characters show up in book one--Aunt May, Gwen Stacy, Flash Thompson, Harry Osborn, Mary Jane Watson, J. Jonah Jameson, and so on. Some, but not all, stick around for book two, which jumps forward two years in time.
There is plenty of drama to go around in both books. The Kingpin has family issues distracting him from being a good...Kingpin. His wife, Vanessa, is the light of the Kingpin's life. But the bubble he tries to create around her to shield her from the ugliness of his business is doomed to break. Silvermane is at death's door, after a long life of creating misery and amassing wealth. He is psychotically determined to "start over" and rule New York City for another fifty years. And nothing will stand in his way. Meanwhile, Peter Parker is barely squeaking by in college, due to the pressures of being Spider-Man, being poor, and taking care of his elderly aunt. He has plenty of friends, but none of them know about his secret identity. Therefore, he has no safety valve for the frustrations of being a hero as well as a starving student.
The story is mostly compelling, though there is a LOT more existential moping than there is web-slinging action. Spider-Man is always facing some internal dilemma. Does he want to continue being a hero even if he is unappreciated and vilified for it? Does he want to play by all the rules of being a "good guy" even if no one else is doing so? It's a lot for a young guy to handle. But anyone familiar with Spider-Man's long history knows that he goes through these kinds of crisis points over and over and OVER again. If he was just a happy-go-lucky Spider-Dude, there wouldn't be as much drama. But since these stories date back from the late 60s, the internal conflicts aren't as nuanced. Back then, Spider-Man's long history of angst was still relatively fresh and new.
Overall, this is a fun--if somewhat dated--read. I think the material will appeal more to older comics fans who remember Spider-Man's classic days than newer comic or comic book movies fans.
Okay.. Okay... Despite my previous complaints I’m giving this one a full four stars.
Anyone who knows me, knows I like Spider-Man. Actually, anyone who knows me knows I’m obsessed with Spider-Man. Most of my Spidey experiences have been from the original/MCU movies, but in the past year or so I’ve been dabbling in the comic world and reading different comics here and there. This book hit the spot.
Okay, I’m going to start with my complaints first; those type/grammar errors were a headache. Some things I had to read over twice to make sure I wasn’t just dumb. Some basic type errors that really shouldn’t have been published, too.
But with that aside... The story was seriously charming. Along with time travel, I love the eternal youth/immortality trope. But the twist with this one was perfection 👌 I was so here for it. And it just keeps getting better!
I absolutely want to read the graphic novel version of this to really experience the imagery described in this book. Anyways.. Great read. I’m seriously loving these Marvel Prose novels so far!
I was very disappointed. I picked this up expecting to read a great Spider-Man novel, and it really doesn't do Spider-Man any justice. He doesn't act like he should, not to mention that there was a slight agenda being pushed, and a lot of cursing. This was labeled a kids' book, and it really shouldn't have been.
Meh. This book was alright, nothing super special about it! I liked it, for the most part!
I think this would be a good book for people who enjoy reading the comics and want to read books relating to their comic book heroes. I know I did. For that reason, I'll probably keep this book around to feature in a future potential classroom library.
Uses newer canon with Gwen. Kingpin is mentioned, but not much of a villain. Biggest antag is Silvermane. Interesting fountain of youth concept which doesn't go anywhere. Okay story , but not good enough to re-read.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
SPIDERMAN: FOREVER YOUNG is a loose adaptation of the classic "The Lifeline Tablet Saga" that deals with the Kingpin trying to steal a stone tablet from the university, the mob boss Silvermane discovering it contains the secret of eternal youth (which he desperately needs), and Peter Parker trying to deal with his various responsibilities to the people in his life.
This isn't really the greatest of Spider-Man stories to adapt to either book format or graphic audio. I actually listened to the latter before switching to the former. The characterization is fine but it's a bit on the shallow side with the Kingpin being pre-Daredevil and thus not nearly as menacing or personal in his fight against Spider-Man as he would be against Matt Murdock.
Silvermane is actually the most interesting villain in this story as the 80+ year old man is on the last years of his life in a society that only respects strength. The tablet represents a chance at a new life that he won't be able to enjoy otherwise. He's also a vicious, murderous old creep that is no less dangerous for the fact he only has weeks to live.
One frustrating element of the story is that Lee and company lean heavily into the fact Peter Parker is viewed as a coward by his friends because he's always running away from danger due to being Spider-Man (and needing to change). This is a ridiculous thing to worry about as anyone not running away from gunfire is an idiot and it's not like any of them were doing anything. It really only works as a dramatic irony from our protagonist. Given Peter is also running into danger, as far as they know, to take photos then this is doubly ridiculous.
The character of Gwen Stacy shows up for a decent chunk of change as we see her as an activist, science student, and beloved daughter of Captain George Stacy. She is saddled with worrying over whether she's in love with a "coward", though, and everytime that shows up--the storyline becomes less enjoyable. Still, it's awesome to see her in her prime and I regret that she didn't show up in the latter half of the book (set after her death).
Vanessa Fisk is also a character that changes a great deal from the way she was initially presented to the woman we know from things like the Daredevil TV show. Here, she's an ethereal depressed woman who is the Kingpin's one anchor to sanity. There's none of the darker side to the character we later encounter.
In conclusion, I enjoyed this book but it is very flawed with a few serious missteps in their desire to make us feel for Peter Parker's inability to manage his secret identity. It was a thing they relied on heavily during this time period but it just didn't work as well for me as it could have.
One specific word that I want to use about this book is - 'cool'. It was really 'cool' reading this book. Spider-Man's witty comebacks and his no-care-in-the-the-world attitude a few of the times when he staged surprise attacks on his opponents, adds spice to the story. Spider-Man is known to be crazy and the hyper college kid who's always on the run to save the city; and this novelization accurately shows us this side.
The book is divided into two parts: Youth and Adulthood. The first part is where the fight over the stone tablet starts. While the first part acknowledges 'youth' and Peter Parker's life as a carefree college kid and his relationship with his friends Harry Orbourne, Mary Jane and his first girlfriend, Gwen Stacy; the second part delves with the darker period in Peter Parker's life - after the death of Gwen and his dwindling relationships with his friends and Aunt May.
The only drawback for me were the unnecessarily multiple action scenes. I would like the book better if the action scenes were not dragged. I don't know whether the comic had such long action scenes and Stefan Petrucha was just doing his job, but the action scenes became a bit too much for me.
Oggi sono qui per parlarvi di un'altra bellissima opera arrivata nelle nostre librerie. Come sapete sono una grande amante del genere, quindi potevo mai farmelo scappare? Assolutamente no. Questo è un romanzo di un arco narrativo che è stato raccontato per la prima volta negli anni '60 e vede due diverse organizzazioni criminali che tentano di mettere le mani su un tablet che si dice contenga un segreto inestimabile. Al suo interno troviamo protagonista il nostro amichevole Spider-Man di quartiere, Peter Parker, in continua difficoltà economica e in piena lotta con i cattivi di sempre come Kingpin. Come se non bastasse la situazione con Gwen non è la più fiorente di sempre e zia May è in fin di vita. Pensavo che come accadeva quand'ero piccola mi sarei entusiasmata ed emozionata ma purtropo questo libro non mi ha dato molto. Ho trovato spesso la narrazione troppo mogia e monotona, con poi alcune cose subito risolte all'improvviso. Però nonostante tutto mi sono divertita a leggere di uno dei miei preferiti del mondo Marvel e la lettura non essendo molto impegnativa mi ha aiutato a staccare tra una lettura e l'altra più pesante. È stata però una lettura che mi ha incuriosito sulla storia originale a fumetti che sicuramente recupererò.
Book-on-CD audio from the library. This was entertaining because I’m a Spider-Man fan, but I kept getting taken out of the story every time someone grunted or groaned when trying to lift/hit/punch/jump/run.... The Lizard and Kingpin make appearances, MJ, Flash, Harry and Aunt May are major characters. Gwen Stacy was done with a slightly different take (she was a bad ass). Gwen stood up to people and didn’t take any crap. There is a lot of tension between Peter Parker and Harry. You can see the road is being paved for Harry to become the Hobgoblin. I was disappointed with some of the story elements, but I don’t want to be specific and spoil the story. I guess this story was an updated version of an old Stan Lee story from way back in the early comics, so it was interesting to note that this story has cell phones and current technology. Overall I liked the book, but it wouldn’t have been as good without the sound effects and different voices.
To be very honest, this could have worked a lot better as a graphic novel, I don’t know but it reminded me of a certain story arc in Spider-man : The Animated Series way back in the 90's where Spidey gets caught between a gang war regarding a tablet of something similar and he was also going through a second mutation which rendered him powerless at one point also it turned him into a man spider hybrid which he got over thanks to the punisher and doctor connors, the story followed the same beats of that particular story arc but didn’t copy it, among all the Marvel prose books, this was the least enjoyable for me just cause I could see the turns coming from miles which is disappointing cause the others like the novelisation of civil war, planet hulk, Avengers stuff everything was top notch
Legal, dá para passar o tempo. Há umas partes com coisas político-ideológicas, não entendi que tipo de crítica o autor quis construir, parece que quer criticar racismo estrutural, depois a crítica parece ir para outra direção, enfim, é o segundo livro do Aranha que rola esse tipo de coisa. É meio chato, porque a obra de ficção deveria focar em levar valores e não ficar se preocupando com essas coisas. O super-herói não precisa ser perfeito, pode ser o ser humano imperfeito com o qual estamos habituado, apenas precisamos que ele encontre forças de fazer o que é justo mesmo com suas limitações, para que nós sejamos inspirados por essas coisas.
This is a pretty good read if you're not looking for anything too serious. While it's an interesting plot, the author doesn't delve into character development much and nothing ground-breaking occurs, but it's entertaining, nonetheless. I realize this is just an adaption from an earlier comic arc, but characters and plot points could've been fleshed out more to be all that more intriguing and attention-grabbing. Overall, read this for fun, but don't expect any major character examination or to have your mind blown.
A novelization of a series of comics from back in the day- first part has Gwen Stacey and her father, while the 2nd half deals with how Peter continues dealing with the loss of both these pivotal people in his life. (As a former boss once asked me - "Gwen Stacey or Mary Jane Parker - who is Peter's true love?" Boy, she had NOT idea what can of worms she opened - and what a discussion we had about that).
A bit of a strange adaptation of a comic book story from the 1960s. While the setting has been adapted to the modern day (cell phones, wi-fi, a passing mention of AIDS as a medical consideration, etc.) the dialogue and character development seems like it was taken straight from the pages of a Silver Age comic book. In a 2018 novel it really doesn't seem unreasonable to expect a little more depth, a little more meaningful an arc for some of our key characters.