Cicero. On old Age

by Marcus Tullius Cicero

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Genres: Philosophy, Nonfiction, Classics, History, Ancient History, Ancient, Personal Development

76 pages, Paperback

First published January 1, 45

About the author

Born 3 January 106 BC, Arpinum, Italy
Died 7 December 43 BC (aged 63), Formia, Italy

Marcus Tullius Cicero was a Roman philosopher, statesman, lawyer, political theorist, and Roman constitutionalist. Cicero is widely considered one of Rome's greatest orators and prose stylists.

Alternate profiles:
Cicéron
Marco Tullio Cicerone
Cicerone

Note: All editions should have Marcus Tullius Cicero as primary author. Editions with another name on the cover should have that name added as secondary author.

Reviews

[Fergus, Weaver of Autistic Webs · Rating 4 out of 5]

My mom, bless her, never knew the wintry blasts of old age. She died in her fifties. But I have made it this far, thank goodness for small mercies.

Old age is a time for doubling and redoubling our nerve and our strength. Cause it's not easy!

And, I'll let you in on a well-kept secret: old age is the time when all our hens come home to roost. You know, your hens - those dumb, winged thought-emotions that are at the Heart of Every Life Choice we've ever made.

Like us, they now feel entitled to a bit of R and R in their dotage. They ARE us, and we can't ignore them!

So, by hook or by crook, they all eventually find their way into our home territory when we reach our old age. Just when we thought we would reap the rewards of our lifetime labours...

I'm not kidding. They're all our besetting sins, and we'd better have lots of chicken perches installed in our living room!

So they all appear, one by one: hens of envy; hens of malice; hens of anger; hens of sloth - yeah, we recognize them all.

We'd better recognize them - they were once our proud pets.

Oh - and they'll lay lotsa eggs on our floor.

Big, fat zeroes - the REAL fruits of our "gainful" labours. And by the way, our real intentions - these hens of thought-emotion - will now be clear to the whole neighbourhood...

We can't kill them. They're now in every nook 'n cranny of our once-proud house. They can raise a heckuva racket if we dare try!

And our floors'll have to be cleaned EVERY DAY...

Oh, and want some advice? Not for your chickens but for negotiating Old age?

Old Tully Cicero is about to feed us the 'Official' Story, so get ready.

What can we expect?

A bill of goods. Snow job - same old, same old. Nothing for you here, young man - just the same motherhood truisms. Little white lies.

But the important thing is that Cicero was a stoic.

And in that regard, for me, this is a useful book. Successful old age is wrought by sheer intestinal fortitude. Ain't it true, Tully?

'You got THAT right - old age ain't for sissies!'

So, remember, when the whole darned house echoes to that stressful sound of billions of loud 'cluck, clucks' -

Just bite that old bullet -

And pour yourself a tall glass of intestinal fortitude!

Cause you're a-gonna NEED it.

[Asclepiade · Rating 5 out of 5]

Va di moda oggi parlar male di Cicerone, ma chi un po’ conosca la storia del gusto si accorge ben presto che si tratta d’una tendenza ricorrente: piace poco l’Arpinate agli atticisti, cultori del nitore cesariano e sallustiano, piace poco agli amanti della scrittura visionaria e nervosa, che ovviamente gli contrappongono Tacito; ad atticisti e tacitiani di mente chiusa, perlomeno, giacché io riesco ad amare comodamente tanto Cicerone quanto Cesare, Tacito e Sallustio, anche se poi vorrei tanto vedere quali capolavori uscirebbero dalla penna di tanti wannabe tacitiani che volessero imitare da vicino il proprio modello: se Cicerone è diventato esemplare campione di stile nelle scuole ma Tacito no, ci sarà pur un motivo valido. La specie più molesta degli anticiceroniani, oggi che in latino quasi nessuno più scrive, è però diventata quella degli anticiceroniani ideologici, coi loro fastidî verso l’oratore conservatore, nostalgico, sostanzialmente distaccato dalla realtà in ebollizione del suo tempo. A costoro risponderei che forse negli anni che attraversiamo lo sguardo nostalgico e vagamente irenistico dello scrittore romano ci trova comprensivi, partecipi e concordi assai più di quel che non avverrebbe in periodi più pacificati e prosperi; anche per noi un sottile rimpianto verso un’età più virtuosa e civile - che smussa con lo sguardo da lungi e armonizza in una specie di versione diacronica del pathos della distanza i contrasti dei grandi del passato - la conservazione delle istituzioni collaudate, la diffidenza per le avventure nel deserto possono rappresentare una medicina contro la tentazione a disperarci vedendo le burrasche da cui è investita d’ogni lato la res publica: la quale può bravamente reggere alle gualdane dei banditi di passo e irriderle, ma in mezzo al garrire dei demagoghi affoga e si sfascia. Il prefatore di quest’edizione Bur del Cato maior de senectute, librino tutto d’oro che ormai leggo (credo) per la terza volta, mette in luce, nella sua interessante benché prolissa introduzione, tutte le incoerenze, i veli, gli schermi usati più o meno consapevolmente dall’Arpinate nel creare il “suo” Catone il Censore che loda la vecchiezza insegnandone i pregi agli ancor giovani Lelio e Scipione Emiliano; tutto giusto: ma la nostra consapevolezza storica così raggiunta non mi sembra che tolga niente al pregio di quest’opera dell’ultima fase della vita di Cicerone, che non a caso ha ottenuto tanta fama in diversi contesti geografici, storici e sociali. Quella di Catone infatti è una saggezza certamente legata alla psicologia e ai valori di Cicerone, pur non essendo priva di elementi ricavati proprio dalla figura del Catone storico, ma è anche una saggezza che travalica i secoli, grazie allo spirito genuinamente concreto e pratico ch’è tipico della filosofia morale romana. Se si affronta questo trattatello dopo aver letto la lunga e articolata prefazione mirante a storicizzare il discorso catoniano, si ricava una piacevolissima sorpresa nell’osservare come, mutatis mutandis, la società moderna non detti norme tacite sulla vecchiaia molto diverse da quelle della Roma di Cicerone: anche allora l’autore notava il diffondersi d’una mentalità giovanilistica e attivistica che tendeva a privilegiare il fare produttivo ed energico, sebbene, date le strutture della società romana, l’operatività non riguardasse tanto il campo economico quanto la politica e la guerra. Ecco che allora l’ideale dell’otium cum dignitate nella tarda età, se guardato con attenzione, magari anche per contrasto alla realtà dei nostri tempi – e anche, dopotutto, a quella dei tempi di Cicerone – si rivela meno un ossimoro che un ideale sempreverde che possa orientare e dare valore a quel periodo della nostra vita in cui deve cessare l’indaffaramento, sovente fine a sé stesso, per consentirci di approdare a un mondo di meditazione, dove si accompagnino l’auctoritas derivante dall’esperienza cumulata, la posatezza che apporta quasi per sua natura l’avanzare dell’età, la venerabilità che assicura la canizie, l’austerità di costumi arrecata dallo sbollire delle passioni, e assieme l’affabilità che arrecano il distacco dall’attivismo e il completo maturare dell’equilibrio, l’amore per le occupazioni culturali ed estetiche in grado di prendere maggior corpo nel momento in cui la vita diviene più rilassata e calma, e anche il gusto per la meditatio mortis che ci conduca con serenità graduale al porto della nostra esistenza, da guardare senza orrore e senza angosce. Poche cose infastidiscono, anzi, disgustano al pari d’una vecchiaia laida, d’un vecchio malvissuto, d’un vecchio sciocco che cerca di fare il ragazzo ad ogni costo. Proprio per questa ragione il Catone ciceroniano, felice e armonioso contrappunto di decus senile e di comitas urbana, conversatore garbatissimo ma tutto dedito anche alla gestione della sua villa, in grado di godere della filosofia ellenica e del grano e delle uve che vigoreggiano nella sua campagna (pensiamo a quanto assapori la visione di quella pianticella di vite che ut se erigat, claviculis suis quasi manibus quidquid est nacta complectitur: ove ammirevole è anche la finissima osservanza della consecutio temporum), capace di affrontare ormai anziano lo studio del greco e di trovarvi spazio per nutrire lo spirito, la saggezza e la fantasia, resta un modello perenne a scorno di qualsiasi sottigliezza storicizzante e demitizzante: perché questo Catone campione di civiltà e μετριότης, dove la solidità romana non mostra durezze e la riflessione umanistica si fa linfa di vita è la figura ideale di vecchio quale vorremmo essere noi e quale lo vorremmo vedere sempre attorno a noi. Qui riacquista tutta la sua dignità e tutta la sua saggezza il verso tanto vituperato Cedant arma togae, concedat laurea laudi: e magari, sostituendo alle armi la mania economica diffusa oggi, se ne facesse tesoro anche ai nostri giorni! Non ho in mente poi autori antichi o moderni da cui, come da queste pagine di Cicerone, erompa caldo e sentito il valore d’una vecchiaia occupata nello studio e, sprezzate le voluptates più corrive, al contempo felice nel godere le gioie d’un banchetto e la bellezza semplice d’un podere ben curato: quanta intima gioia c’è nell’accenno al godimento di Nevio dinanzi al proprio Bellum poenicum e di Plauto davanti al Truculentus e allo Pseudolus, frutti estremi della loro arte! Ma la cultura nell’anziano dotato di esprit diviene altresì più concentrata, piena e ricca di succhi nutritivi. È una cultura incapace di sperdersi dietro alle mode, ma sempre disposta a prendere cibo e luce dai classici che non periscono mai. Ecco allora l’incipit fulmineo, ex abrupto, con la citazione di Ennio: il prologo al discorso ispirato di Catone si apre con gli esametri di pietra secca e scabra dell’antico poeta di Rudiae, disprezzato dai modaioli cantores Euphorionis, ma caro all’oratore arpinate, come a Lucrezio, a Orazio, a Virgilio; ed Ennio punteggia tutto il discorso catoniano, perché, ai tempi di Cicerone, egli è “il” poeta classico di Roma, e i classici, appunto, non muoiono. Uno dei compiti principali dell’otium cum dignitate che illumini e renda belli i nostri ultimi anni sarà proprio questa testimonianza culturale, questo passaggio di conoscenze, di sensibilità, di ricchezze interiori, di ideali: perché è su questa testimonianza e su questo retaggio che si fonda la civiltà.

[Manuel Alfonseca · Rating 4 out of 5]

ESPAÑOL: Excelente diálogo de Cicerón, que habla por boca de Catón el viejo. Veamos algunas de las citas más señeras para mí:

[La vejez.] Hasta que es alcanzada, todos la desean; y en llegando a ella, le echan la culpa de muchos achaques. ¡Tanta es la inconstancia y el desconcierto de la necedad humana! Dicen que se les entró en casa más pronto de lo que pensaban.

[El viejo] es de mejor condición que el mozo, porque lo que el mozo espera, ya el viejo lo consiguió. El joven anhela una larga vida, que el anciano ha vivido ya.

Porque cuando [el fin] llega, lo que ha pasado se fue como el humo; y sólo nos queda lo que hayamos logrado con la virtud y la práctica del bien.

Ennio [escribió]: "nadie me honre con llanto cuando yo muera..." Que no se debe llorar una muerte a la que sigue la inmortalidad.

Y si algún dios me ofreciese volver a la niñez... rehusaría decididamente: anduve ya casi mi camino y no quisiera volver al punto de donde partí.

Y si después de la muerte - como han sostenido filósofos insignificantes - nada sintiere, no temo que los filósofos que murieron se rían de mí.

ENGLISH: Excellent dialogue by Cicero, who speaks through the voice of Cato the Elder. Let us see a few of the best quotes (for me):

[Old age.] Until it is reached, everyone wants it; and in arriving at it, they blame it for many ailments. Such is the inconstancy and bewilderment of human folly! They say it came to them sooner than they thought.

[The old man] is in a better condition than the youth, because what the youth expects, the old man already has. The youth longs for a long life, which the old man has already lived.

When [the end] arrives, what has happened goes like smoke; and we only have left what we achieved with virtue and the practice of goodness.

Ennius [wrote]: "Let no one honor me with tears when I die..." One should not mourn a death followed by immortality.

And if some god offered me to return to childhood... I would resolutely refuse: I have almost finished my way and do not want to return to the starting point.

And if after death - as insignificant philosophers have argued - there is nothing, I have not fear that those dead philosophers will laugh at me.

[Vaishali · Rating 5 out of 5]

Wonderful, wise reflections...

Excerpts :
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“Old age: which all desire to attain, yet find fault with when they reach it.”

“To rebel against Nature is to repeat the war of the Giants with the Gods.”

“I have known many old men who have made no complaint, who did not regret the release from passion’s slavery, and were not despised by their fellow citizens.”

"The calm and serene old age belong to those who lived peacefully, purely, and gracefully, such as we learn was the old age of Plato, who died while writing in his eighty-first year…”

“I find on reflection 4 reasons why old age seems wretched; — one, it calls us away from useful work; second, it enfeebles the body; third, it deprives us of sensual gratification; fourth, it is the last step before death.”

“Far better than to have gold is to control those who have gold.”

“The young man hopes to live long; the old man has lived long. And yet, good heavens! What is 'long' in a man’s life?”

“Old age, then, is even more confident and courageous then youth.”

“The soul is always in motion… it is self-moved… it will never cease in motion because it is unlikely to abandon itself… It is thus immortal… Mere children grasp innumerable facts with such speed, showing they are not ingesting them for the first time, but remembering and recalling them.”



.

[Anna P (whatIreallyRead) · Rating 4 out of 5]

I was looking for some books about aging to recommend to my mom, as she's interested in the topic but struggles to find anything to read about it - everything seems to be written for and about youth!

I very rarely read ancient/pre-medieval literature, so I was intimidated. But this was short and very readable - framed as a dialogue, or more accurately a speech. I enjoyed reading it - some wise and interesting thoughts. I can see how this likely influenced the outlook on aging throughout human history.

[Fred Jenkins · Rating 4 out of 5]

This is third time that I have read this. I still enjoy Cicero's style and the historical anecdotes and exempla. Now that I am on the wrong side of sixty, I find most of the arguments in favor of old age less than convincing. Cicero doesn't use the most efficacious: in all but the worst cases, it is better than being dead. Probably his strongest arguments are those against fearing death, although these are mostly a rehash of well established topoi from the major philosophical schools of antiquity. Whatever happens, the once certain thing is that most of us will be surprised.

quid enim stultius quam incerta pro certis habere, falsis pro veris; good advice in all contexts, not just old age, especially in 21st century America.

[Tom · Rating 5 out of 5]

"But after all some "last" was inevitable, just as to the berries of a tree and the fruits of the earth there comes in the fulness of time a period of decay and fall."

"But I have known many of them who never said a word of complaint against old age; for they were only too glad to be freed from the bondage of passion, and were not at all looked down upon by their friends."

"You may be sure, my dear Scipio and Lælius, that the arms best adapted to old age are culture and the active exercise of the virtues. For if they have been maintained at every period—if one has lived much as well as long—the harvest they produce is wonderful, not only because they never fail us even in our last days (though that in itself is supremely important), but also because the consciousness of a well-spent life and the recollection of many virtuous actions are exceedingly delightful."

"I was cognisant of much that was admirable in that great man, but nothing struck me with greater astonishment than the way in which he bore the death of his son—a man of brilliant character and who had been consul. His funeral speech over him is in wide circulation, and when we read it, is there any philosopher of whom we do not think meanly? Nor in truth was he only great in the light of day and in the sight of his fellow-citizens; he was still more eminent in private and at home. What a wealth of conversation! What weighty maxims! What a wide acquaintance with ancient history! What an accurate knowledge of the science of augury!"

"Plato's was, who died at his writing-desk in his eighty-first year."

"The fact is that when I come to think it over, I find that there are four reasons for old age being thought unhappy: First, that it withdraws us from active employments; second, that it enfeebles the body; third, that it deprives us of nearly all physical pleasures; fourth, that it is the next step to death. Of each of these reasons, if you will allow me, let us examine the force and justice separately."

"There is therefore nothing in the arguments of those who say that old age takes no part in public business. They are like men who would say that a steersman does nothing in sailing a ship, because, while some of the crew are climbing the masts, others hurrying up and down the gangways, others pumping out the bilge water, he sits quietly in the stern holding the tiller. He does not do what young men do; nevertheless he does what is much more important and better. The great affairs of life are not performed by physical strength, or activity, or nimbleness of body, but by deliberation, character, expression of opinion. Of these old age is not only not deprived, but, as a rule, has them in a greater degree."

"And if those qualities had not resided in us seniors, our ancestors would never have called their supreme council a Senate. At Sparta, indeed, those who hold the highest magistracies are in accordance with the fact actually called "elders." But if you will take the trouble to read or listen to foreign history, you will find that the mightiest States have been brought into peril by young men, have been supported and restored by old."

"The question occurs in the poet Nævius' Sport:
Pray, who are those who brought your State
There is a long answer, but this is the chief point:
A crop of brand-new orators we grew,
And foolish, paltry lads who thought they knew.
For of course rashness is the note of youth, prudence of old age."

"Sophocles composed tragedies to extreme old age; and being believed to neglect the care of his property owing to his devotion to his art, his sons brought him into court to get a judicial decision depriving him of the management of his property on the ground of weak intellect—just as in our law it is customary to deprive a paterfamilias of the management of his property if he is squandering it. Thereupon the old poet is said to have read to the judges the play he had on hand and had just composed—the Oedipus Coloneus—and to have asked them whether they thought that the work of a man of weak intellect. After the reading he was acquitted by the jury."

"Nor indeed would a farmer, however old, hesitate to answer any one who asked him for whom he was planting: "For the immortal gods, whose will it was that I should not merely receive these things from my ancestors, but should also hand them on to the next generation."

"We see Solon, for instance, boasting in his poems that he grows old "daily learning something new." Or again in my own case, it was only when an old man that I became acquainted with Greek literature, which in fact I absorbed with such avidity—in my yearning to quench, as it were, a long-continued thirst—that I became acquainted with the very facts which you see me now using as precedents. When I heard what Socrates had done about the lyre I should have liked for my part to have done that too, for the ancients used to learn the lyre, but, at any rate, I worked hard at literature."

"that ancient and much-praised proverb: Old when young, Is old for long."

"In fine, enjoy that blessing when you have it; when it is gone, don't wish it back—unless we are to think that young men should wish their childhood back, and those somewhat older their youth! The course of life is fixed, and nature admits of its being run but in one way, and only once; and to each part of our life there is something specially seasonable; so that the feebleness of children, as well as the high spirit of youth, the soberness of maturer years, and the ripe wisdom of old age—all have a certain natural advantage which should be secured in its proper season."

"Active exercise, therefore, and temperance can preserve some part of one's former strength even in old age."

"we must stand up against old age and make up for its drawbacks by taking pains. We must fight it as we should an illness. We must look after our health, use moderate exercise, take just enough food and drink to recruit, but not to overload, our strength. Nor is it the body alone that must be supported, but the intellect and soul much more. For they are like lamps: unless you feed them with oil, they too go out from old age."

"Appius governed four sturdy sons, five daughters, that great establishment, and all those clients, though he was both old and blind. For he kept his mind at full stretch like a bow, and never gave in to old age by growing slack. He maintained not merely an influence but an absolute command over his family: his slaves feared him, his sons were in awe of him, all loved him. In that family, indeed, ancestral custom and discipline were in full vigour. The fact is that old age is respectable just as long as it asserts itself, maintains its proper rights, and is not enslaved to any one. For as I admire a young man who has something of the old man in him, so do I an old one who has something of a young man. The man who aims at this may possibly become old in body—in mind he never will."

"I am now engaged in composing the seventh book of my Origins. I collect all the records of antiquity. The speeches delivered in all the celebrated cases which I have defended I am at this particular time getting into shape for publication. I am writing treatises on augural, pontifical, and civil law. I am, besides, studying hard at Greek, and after the manner of the Pythagoreans—to keep my memory in working order—I repeat in the evening whatever I have said, heard, or done in the course of each day. These are the exercises of the intellect, these the training-grounds of the mind: while I sweat and labour on these I don't much feel the loss of bodily strength. I appear in court for my friends; I frequently attend the Senate and bring motions before it on my own responsibility, prepared after deep and long reflection. And these I support by my intellectual, not my bodily forces. And if I were not strong enough to do these things, yet I should enjoy my sofa—imagining the very operations which I was now unable to perform."

"But what makes me capable of doing this is my past life. For a man who is always living in the midst of these studies and labours does not perceive when old age creeps upon him. Thus, by slow and imperceptible degrees life draws to its end. There is no sudden breakage; it just slowly goes out."

"The third charge against old age is that it LACKS SENSUAL PLEASURES. What a splendid service does old age render, if it takes from us the greatest blot of youth! Listen, my dear young friends, to a speech of Archytas of Tarentum, among the greatest and most illustrious of men, which was put into my hands when as a young man I was at Tarentum with Q. Maximus. "No ore deadly curse than sensual pleasure has been inflicted on mankind by nature, to gratify which our wanton appetites are roused beyond all prudence or restraint. It is a fruitful source of treasons, revolutions, secret communications with the enemy. In fact, there is no crime, no evil deed, to which the appetite for sensual pleasures does not impel us. Fornications and adulteries, and every abomination of that kind, are brought about by the enticements of pleasure and by them alone. Intellect is the best gift of nature or God: to this divine gift and endowment there is nothing so inimical as pleasure. For when appetite is our master, there is no place for self-control; nor where pleasure reigns supreme can virtue hold its ground. To see this more vividly, imagine a man excited to the highest conceivable pitch of sensual pleasure. It can be doubtful to no one that such a person, so long as he is under the influence of such excitation of the senses, will be unable to use to any purpose either intellect, reason, or thought. Therefore nothing can be so execrable and so fatal as pleasure; since, when more than ordinarily violent and lasting, it darkens all the light of the soul."

"What is the point of all this? It is to show you that, if we were unable to scorn pleasure by the aid of reason and philosophy, we ought to have been very grateful to old age for depriving us of all inclination for that which it was wrong to do. For pleasure hinders thought, is a foe to reason, and, so to speak, blinds the eyes of the mind. It is, moreover, entirely alien to virtue. I was sorry to have to expel Lucius, brother of the gallant Titus Flamininus, from the Senate seven years after his consulship; but I thought it imperative to affix a stigma on an act of gross sensuality. For when he was in Gaul as consul, he had yielded to the entreaties of his paramour at a dinner-party to behead a man who happened to be in prison condemned on a capital charge. When his brother Titus was Censor, who preceded me, he escaped; but I and Flaccus could not countenance an act of such criminal and abandoned lust, especially as, besides the personal dishonour, it brought disgrace on the Government."

"Why then do I spend so many words on the subject of pleasure? Why, because, far from being a charge against old age, that it does not much feel the want of any pleasures, it is its highest praise."

"Plato, with happy inspiration, calls pleasure "vice's bait," because of course men are caught by it as fish by a hook."

"I am thankful to old age, which has increased my avidity for conversation, while it has removed that for eating and drinking."

"That was a fine answer of Sophocles to a man who asked him, when in extreme old age, whether he was still a lover. "Heaven forbid!" he replied; "I was only too glad to escape from that, as though from a boorish and insane master."

"he cannot be said to lack who does not want: my contention is that not to want is the pleasanter thing."

"It is indeed an honourable sentiment which Solon expresses in a verse which I have quoted before—that he grew old learning many a fresh lesson every day. Than that intellectual pleasure none certainly can be greater."

"Nor is it only in cornfields and meadows and vineyards and plantations that a farmer's life is made cheerful. There are the garden and the orchard, the feeding of sheep, the swarms of bees, endless varieties of flowers. Nor is it only planting out that charms: there is also grafting—surely the most ingenious invention ever made by husbandmen."

"As Curius was sitting at his hearth the Samnites, who brought him a large sum of gold, were repulsed by him; for it was not, he said, a fine thing in his eyes to possess gold, but to rule those who possessed it. Could such a high spirit fail to make old age pleasant?"

"In my opinion, scarcely any life can be more blessed, not alone from its utility (for agriculture is beneficial to the whole human race), but also as much from the mere pleasure of the thing, to which I have already alluded, and from the rich abundance and supply of all things necessary for the food of man and for the worship of the gods above."

"Need I mention the greenery of meadows, the rows of trees, the beauty of vineyard and olive-grove? I will put it briefly: nothing can either furnish necessaries more richly, or present a fairer spectacle, than well-cultivated land."

"Xenophon's books are very useful for many purposes. Pray go on reading them with attention, as you have ever done. In what ample terms is agriculture lauded by him in the book about husbanding one's property, which is called Oeconomicus!"

"Moreover, that last period of his old age was more blessed than that of his middle life, inasmuch as he had greater influence and less labour. For the crowning grace of old age is influence."

"It was not only their senatorial utterances that had weight: their least gesture had it also. In fact, old age, especially when it has enjoyed honours, has an influence worth all the pleasures of youth put together."

"it is the honourable conduct of earlier days that is rewarded by possessing influence at the last."

"Now the harvest of old age is, as I have often said, the memory and rich store of blessings laid up in earlier life. Again, all things that accord with nature are to be counted as good. But what can be more in accordance with Nature than for old men to die?"

"The result is that the short time of life left to them is not to be grasped at by old men with greedy eagerness, or abandoned without cause. Pythagoras forbids us, without an order from our commander, that is God, to desert life's fortress and outpost."

On Ennius: "He holds that a death is not a subject for mourning when it is followed by immortality."

"'Preserve my memory by the loyalty and piety of your lives.' Such are the words of the dying Cyrus."

[Simon Goldenson · Rating 3 out of 5]

RIP Cicero you would've loved milfs

[Matty · Rating 4 out of 5]

Encore un best-seller de Cicéron, cette fois-ci sur la vieillesse !
Quels maux peut-on imputer à l'avancée de l'âge ? Faut-il seulement critiquer la vieillesse ?

Dans cet ouvrage, Cicéron essaie de nous rendre la vieillesse "plus légère" et donc plus facile à supporter en réfuter les critiques qu'on lui associe.

Ainsi, la vieillesse ne réduit pas nos forces pour les activités politiques ou intellectuelles, au contraire, elle en apporte quelques avantages. (Cicéron évoque aussi les activités agricoles et éducatives, mais est plus bref).

L'auteur montre aussi qu'il ne faut pas déplorer la diminution de la vigueur ou des plaisirs, l'âge se faisant, ni même redoutant la mort qui approche.

Un sacré programme, mais très clairement ordonné et assez concis. Une bonne lecture.

[Pedro Alhinho · Rating 5 out of 5]

"Não estou arrependido de ter vivido ja que vivi de modo a não ter nascido em vão."
Um exercício retórico preciso e precioso sobre como viver de bem com todas as idades.

[VoyagedeFumiko · Rating 3 out of 5]

On pourrait résumer ce traité en une phrase qu’écrit Cicéron : « La vie suit un cours bien précis et la nature dote chaque âge de qualités propres. » Il continue en ajoutant « C’est pourquoi la faiblesse des enfants, la fougue des jeunes gens, le sérieux des adultes, la maturité de la vieillesse sont des choses naturelles que l’on doit apprécier chacune en son temps. »

Pour le philosophe, le vieillard aigri l’était déjà dans sa jeunesse. Celui qui se plaint des insuffisances de l’âge ne peut s’en prendre qu’à lui-même, c’est un sot qui n’a pas su polir les bonnes qualités dans le passé. Le secret pour se soulager du fardeau de la vieillesse ? Cultiver une vie saine et surtout, entretenir son esprit et son âme.

Rien de très original, je crois. Les vérités qu’avance Cicéron sont toujours agréables à lire afin de se les remémorer mais je m’attendais à un argumentaire plus poussé, qui me bousculerait un peu ou provoquerait des réflexions nouvelles chez moi.

Dans une société où nous vivons plus longtemps, pas forcément en meilleure santé, où cette quête superficielle de la beauté qu’offre la jeunesse devient une course effrénée, voire un dictat, rappeler ces vérités ne peut pas faire de mal. Seulement, pour approfondir la question, obtenir des éléments de réponses plus en adéquation avec notre réalité, j’essaierai plutôt de me tourner vers un auteur plus contemporain.

[Júlia Peró · Rating 3 out of 5]

Es interesante ver cómo se entendía antes la vejez y percatarte de que las preocupaciones no han cambiado.

El discurso, aun así, resulta un poco miope. Se centra, cómo no, en la vejez masculina y no consigue ver más allá de la propia vejez del autor. La vejez siempre pinta mejor si eres alguien de clase y estatus privilegiados. ¿Qué pasa con la vejez de las mujeres, de los esclavos, de la gente de a pie? Probablemente no existía, no tenían la suerte de experimentarla.

Aun así, tengo claro que uno no es tan sabio como parece si no se percata de que su discurso está sesgado.

[Loesje · Rating 3 out of 5]

Ik had het boek op een rustiger moment moeten lezen...

[Franco · Rating 4 out of 5]

No leí esta traducción, sino la del eminente latinista Manuel de Valbuena.

[Narfi Svavarsson · Rating 3 out of 5]

let me live my life, cicero!

(goðar pælingar samt)

[Sara · Rating 4 out of 5]

Lista para ser una abuelita

[Jake Bronson · Rating 4 out of 5]

A great look at a Stoic's view on old age. Cicero notes that like nature goes through seasons of growth, flourishing, aging, and death so too do we as humans. Aging should, in that light, be embraced not avoided at all costs. Good read for anyone who will age.

[Mark · Rating 3 out of 5]

As I write this, I am about to go celebrate a friend's birthday. She is younger than me, but most of the people on Discord who will see this are older than me. As my brother David once remarked, it's around age 27 or 28 that you start to actually feel things shifting, to notice ageing in yourself. I've had more digestive issues, more eye strain, more tiredness. The lists of physical ailments go on endlessly, the one guaranteed source of small talk other than the weather. It really should be death, taxes, medical issues, and weather.

Cicero here gives the rarely-discussed positives of old age. Today, in the world of the Young-Girl, we cherish youth and abhor ageing. For some strange reason, liberal societies the world over have arbitrarily christened the start of life at 18, and the end of it whenever you start to feel old. No longer do we value the wisdom of our elders, and even the left regularly disparages the elderly and threatens near-genocidal violence against them. It's gone so far that secular scholars refuse to call it the "Old" Testament, because the term "old" has so many negative associations.

With a few pinches of wit and humor, Cicero reverses four common complaints about old age, helping us to see the positives in them. Of course, we have to take a large pinch of salt with these given the unprecedentedly low status of elders within Western society. Despite this large pothole, these are still valuable to consider.

In classic stoic fashion, Cicero dismisses the fear of death because either we go to nothingness, which is neutral, or eternal bliss, which is good. I find it curious that he doesn't consider any possibility of hell or eternal negativity. It's funny how we all assume we're going to heaven. After that, in classic Roman fashion, he doesn't simply make the four points he sets out to argue, but instead couches them in a story-within-a-story. This has little effect on the actual argument, only helping Cicero to namedrop a bunch of names most of us who aren't classicists don't know.

Before going into the four main points, he does make the valid and classically stoic argument that people don't have old age per se to blame for their unhappiness; instead, people can find happiness (or unhappiness) in any situation, which is of course true. I think that it does somewhat miss the point, especially today, given the hyper-fixation we have on youth and the sexual potency which goes with that.

In a roundabout way, that's what Cicero alludes to in the first of the four: Old age draws us away from life's activities. What he means here is moreso the busy-ness of youth, where we're expected to stay busy at all times, chasing after money, fame, partners, etc. As you can tell, this gets exhausting, and it's full of so much folly. As he argues, "the things [old people] do are vastly more significant and more worthwhile. This might sound odd to us who are used to our elders whiling away their time in front of ye olde cable TV, but that's a fault of our elders not having any wisdom or intelligence, not a fault of old age per se. The wisest people alive are older, and as we saw with old Biden, they also carry the lion's share of the political power. Any old person which hasn't totally wasted their intellectual and spiritual potential is a force to be reckoned with, especially if, like Cicero, they continually learn new things, as he and Socrates both did late in life. Once again, this emphasizes how you use your time rather than the amount of time you have, which becomes all the truer the more our phones yell at us about how long we've been using them and for what apps.

The second of the four points deals with extroversion and being active in the community. This one brought up one of the more impressive of Cicero's claims, namely that he practiced his memory every day by "recall[ing] everything I have said, heard, or done on that day." I really am shocked by the number of elderly people today who are incapacitated by dementia and alzhiemers, and I genuinely wonder how much of that is due to poor mental/physical exercise habits, as well as our awful diets. There's no way that the trope of the "wise old elder" could have arisen in the first place if they would have been as incompetent as our present day elders are. Maybe modern medicine is to blame, keeping people around who would have otherwise passed on?

The third of the four is probably one of the funnier ones in that Cicero defends the weakening of pleasure for the elderly; Cicero praises this loss of sensation/blunting of our senses because it frees us up to do more impactful things and to more easily focus on that which is important. Once again, it's no guarantee that the elderly will do that, but at least the opportunity is there. Curiously, Cicero backs up my thesis that most crime is attributable to extroversion, because he argues that elders don't have the energy or ability to commit most crimes, which makes them much less dangerous to society than the young. Cicero builds off of this and says that "we should be very grateful to old age, which causes us no longer to want what we ought never to have wanted." So much of youth is spent in bemoaning what you want but can't quite reach, whereas old age enforces more humility and thankfulness (at least so long as you don't spend all day whining about your regrets and missed life choices haha). To clarify his point even further, he writes: "But, you say, in the old, pleasure loses the fine edge of its stimulation. Probably so, but who cares about that? And who worries about things he doesn't care about?" This was one of the funnier moments, one more Buddhist in flavor than I expected, but also very true.

The fourth of four is obviously the approaching nearness to death, which he partially anticipated, and which was welcome after the meandering in the third part. Once again, he makes several important points that I'd like to echo. First, "An actor, in order to find favor, does not have to take part all the way through a play; he need only prove himself in any act which he may appear... A brief span of years is quite long enough for living a good and honorable life." In a roundabout way this might actually argue against worrying about living a long life, but I'll leave that there. The other important point he makes is that "every minute of every hour, death hangs over us; if we live in terror of it, how can we keep our sanity?" This truth flashes in front of me several times a day, that if I didn't swallow right I could have choked on that, or if I would have stepped out in front of that car it would have sent me flying. I think that the opposite problem is much worse: forgetting about the nearness of death, which is equally close to all. It merely becomes more evident to those who are physically ageing. As the old Latin phrase goes, tempis fugit!

[Kortan Toygar · Rating 3 out of 5]

Thorough thoughts about enjoyment of getting older some two thousand years ago which is still valid...

[ੈ✩‧₊˚ana ੈ✩‧₊˚ · Rating 5 out of 5]

Cicero's On Old Age (Cato Maior de Senectute) is a refreshing and optimistic view on old age, written just over 2,000 years ago in Rome. It is now in my top 5 of favorite philosophical texts of all time.

While I don’t agree completely with every point made (I rarely ever do), I would still easily recommend that everyone give it a read!

This classic text is short, accessible, and written in very plain (easy to understand) language. No deciphering or translating needed. Perfect for beginners!

Context:
It was written in 44 BC as a dialogue set in 150 B.C. between Cato the Elder (who is in the midst of old age, and has already experienced several battles and burned his son’s (Cato the Younger, who he held in great esteem) body after he died) and two younger men named Scipio Aemilianus and Laelius, although it is largely just Cato talking.

It is also available as a free audiobook on YouTube (linked below)🩷:
https://youtu.be/EErXWuv8iBg?si=inZiB...

Some Key Arguments from the Text:
- Cicero argues to treat the body a place you visit, but don’t reside—like your hotel rather than your home
- He believes he will be reunited with your dead loved ones when you pass on
- If you continue meaningful intellectual work in your old age, you will enjoy old age (continuing to have purpose is important). Retirement is relished by the philosopher, ect.
- To say that physical labor/abilities is what makes a man is to say that the great intellectual efforts of the philosophers/statesmen before us had no value—therefore, you can’t argue that a man’s value diminishes in old age
- Caring for your soul is just as important as physical exercise and a moderate diet (he explicitly says to only eat enough to nourish yourself but not enough to become an impairment)
- Death, being frail or irritable are not unique to old age
- The lack of coitis in old age is not a loss to those who don’t miss participating in that, and many don’t
- Grand civilizations could not have been created had it not been from the wisdom and discernment of the elders within the region
- Old men build civilizations, young men destroy them/start wars

^Again, I am not personally aligned with all of these, but they are still worth mentioning for discussion/educational purposes

There’s no explicit mention of women in this text, which I find *interesting*.

Background on Cicero the Elder:

“Marcus Tullius Cicero was born on January 3, 106 B.C.E. and was murdered on December 7, 43 B.C.E. His life coincided with the decline and fall of the Roman Republic, and he was an important actor in many of the significant political events of his time, and his writings are now a valuable source of information to us about those events. He was, among other things, an orator, lawyer, politician, and philosopher”
Source: https://iep.utm.edu/cicero-roman-phil...

[Mario · Rating 5 out of 5]

Marcus Tullius Cicero
Un viejo Cicerón, retirado ya de la vida pública y, en un tiempo no menos sorprendente, comienza un período de producción literaria excepcional. Trabajando desde temprano por la mañana y extendiéndose durante todo el día, la producción excelsa de Cicerón en este lapso trató temas diversos en forma de tratados acerca de ética, educación, religión, amistad y moralidad. César había cruzado el Rubicón, marcando lo que sería el inicio de las guerras civiles y orquestando el fin de la república romana, evento que culminaría con César declarándose dictador perpetuo. Por otro lado, Cicerón se había divorciado de la que fuera su esposa treinta años. Su amada hija, Tulia, había muerto y el prospecto para aquel viejo, antaño cabeza de estado y personaje ilustre, no era prometedor. Sin embargo, lejos de sumirse en el vino y la autoindulgencia, para finalmente suicidarse, Cicerón escribe y escribe bien.

Este era el contexto cuando compone "Sobre la Vejez" o "De Senectute", aunque se trata de un título abreviado, pues el completo era "Cato Maior o, De Senectute". El objeto de Cicerón es claro: ofrecer una amplia visión de la vejez, lejos de la resignación característica que deviene de la edad, aunque siempre discutiendo también sus limitaciones. Demuestra que esos años deben ser vistos como una oportunidad para el crecimiento, una especie de coronación en el final de una vida bien vivida. Sus ideas, desarrolladas en forma de diálogo, nos presentan a Cato el Viejo (Marco Porcio Catón) y sus dos jóvenes interlocutores. Cato demuestra cómo la tercera edad puede ser la mejor fase de la vida. Refuta las objeciones de muchos críticos que, necesariamente, la vejez representa un tiempo de inactividad, enfermedad, pérdida del placer sensual y miedo paralizante ante la muerte.

Este pequeño tratado en forma de diálogo ha tenido muchos admiradores; los lectores del mismo los podemos encontrar desde la Edad Media. El ensayista francés Michel de Montaigne decía que leerle hizo crecer en él un apetito por volverse viejo. Benjamin Franklin se impresionó tanto con este libro que imprimió una traducción del mismo en Filadelfia en 1744, haciéndolo uno de los primeros clásicos publicados en América.

[Devilaus · Rating 4 out of 5]

Breve y ligero de leer. Cicerón, valiéndose de los diálogos de Platón así como Fedón y de la naturaleza del alma que, como decía Aristóteles, el alma es simple y está siempre en movimiento, consuela a sus amigos y también a nosotros acerca de la muerte, uno de los problemas de la vejez.

Nos dice Cicerón que la vejez no es desagradable, sino que es una etapa de sensatez donde nos vemos libres de los apetitos corporales por lo que podemos dedicar el tiempo a tareas más loables como la escritura o la contemplación de la naturaleza en las labores del campo.

Su filosofía está todavía muy vigente, sobre todo, en estos tiempos en los que se valora la juventud por encima de todo, donde las empresas cosméticas presionan a los consumidores con cremas antiedad, donde ser adolescente está de moda ("la mejor etapa de tu vida está en el instituto"), Cicerón señala que cada etapa de la vida es disfrutable de una manera distinta a la anterior.

En lo personal, aún soy joven pero me hacía falta este libro porque debido a este tipo de sociedad en el que vivimos, sentía angustia cada vez que cumplía años, pero ahora creo que no hay por qué temerlo. Sí, nuestro cuerpo se debilita, pero en la juventud también nos pueden pasar a otras cosas desagradables, Cicerón aconseja entrenar la memoria y la inteligencia, nuestro carácter no tiene por qué avinagrarse al llegar a viejos y, al igual que una obra de teatro, que si es muy larga puede llegar a hastiarnos, nuestra vida también llegará a su fin y, una de dos: o nosotros no seremos y por ello no nos debemos preocupar, o si nuestra alma es eterna entonces tampoco tenemos que atormentarnos con esto. Como siempre digo, la filosofía estoica es un consuelo ante las cosas inevitables, como envejecer y la muerte. Si eso no puede cambiar, entonces deberá cambiar nuestra mirada de entenderlas.

[Eleonora · Rating 4 out of 5]

Questo trattato di Cicerone (avvocato, politico, scrittore, oratore e filosofo romano nato 106 avanti Cristo) sulla vecchiaia sfata 4 falsi miti sulla vecchiaia che l'autore stesso elenca sulla base della sua esperienza in società. Avvocato dell'accusa e della difesa, Cicerone si esibisce in una lunga arringa in difesa della vecchiaia.
Questi i 4 punti:
1. La vecchiaia distoglie l'uomo dalla vita attiva
2.La vecchiaia ti toglie le forze rendendo il corpo sempre più debole
3.La vecchiaia toglie le gioie dell'amore
4.La vecchiaia si avvicina sempre di più alla morte
A difesa della vecchiaia:
1. C'è un tempo per tutto, la vita attiva non è necessariamente quella in cui si fanno degli sforzi fisici, ma può essere attiva in politica, in società e tanti ambiti che richiedono una certa esperienza e saggezza
2. La senilità ti permette di allenare la mente, di dedicarti al pensiero, alla meditazione, allo studio.
3. A volte la passione diventa una schiavitù, diventa violenza, diventa condizionamento. La sottrazione può diventare una vera e propria liberazione
4. La morte non è la fine di qualcosa, ma l'inizio dell'eterno

Bel libro, bella lettura. Interessante anche la vita di Cicerone

[Rick · Rating 5 out of 5]

I turned 60 last year and have been doing a lot of thinking and pondering around the topic of remaining relevant, grateful, and helpful to others as an aging person. I’ve consumed lots of articles, You Tube videos, and books on various aspects of “living your best life” as a senior (I flinch at even typing that word as it is so NOT my own sense of self!) I am BLOWN away that the soundest most sensible advice and wisdom that I have received on this topic thus far, comes from an ancient Roman Senator who lived and died decades before the common era began!

As is often the case with advice and self-help books, the actual advice is not new or novel (service to others, continuous learning and growing.) It is instead the plain straightforward and earnest manner of his advice, along with the realization that his advice has withstood the testing of over two millennia. I have a small handful of books that I intentionally re-read every 1-3 years; this will be one of them.

Not really a spoiler alert; but ironically and sadly, Cicero was executed for alleged treason shortly after putting these words down on … parchment? a scroll? clay tablet? (You get the idea.)

[Bruce · Rating 4 out of 5]

I read the little combination of "On Old Age" and "On Friendship", each just about 50 pages of text. Cicero lived in the first century BC and is regarded as Rome's greatest orator. He lived right next to Berwyn (ha ha). Both of these brief discourses are sweet summations of his philosophy, and each emphasizes virtue and good cheer.

"Let this, then, be laid down as the first law of friendship, that we should ask from friends and do for friends only what is good. But do not let us wait to be asked either: let there be ever an eager readiness, and an absence of hesitation. Let us have the courage to give advice with candor. "

"The third charge against old age is that it lacks sensual pleasures. What a splendid service does old age render, if it takes from us the greatest blot of youth! ..."No more deadly curse than sensual pleasure has been inflicted on mankind by nature, to gratify by which our wanton appetites are roused beyond all prudence or restraint....In fact, there is no crime, no evil deed, to which the appetite for sensual pleasures does not impel us."

[Maria Isabel Chang · Rating 5 out of 5]

Esencialmente un tratado muy breve, difícil de creer que fue escrito hace más de 2.000 años. Nada de lo que dice está desactualizado, excepto los nombres. La vejez debería ser una época de aprendizaje y jardinería y de conversación con amigos, según Cicerón. La vejez será lo que le aportamos nuestras vidas pasadas, tanto en la solidez del cuerpo como en el carácter y el temperamento. No cambiamos con la edad. Mis propios abueñps no eran diferentes de lo que siempre habían sido. Su creencia en la división del cuerpo y el alma, y en la inmortalidad del alma, es precisamente lo que enseña la Iglesia hoy. La vejez está felizmente libre de las pasiones y sensaciones de la juventud. Deberíamos empezar a separarnos del cuerpo. Creo que probablemente gran parte del catolicismo/cristianismo se inspiró en la filosofía romana.

[Jesse Kessler · Rating 5 out of 5]

A rich contemplation on life. Appropriate for youth who might one-day become old, middle age folks who will soon be old, or seniors who finally have achieved old age.

Conan's comedic response to what is good in life, "To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women," is in fantastic contrast to Cicero's commending of (among other things) companionship and the enjoyment of gardening.

This starts out as a dialogue, but most of the book is a monologue making the case for the superior fruits of old age. Reading through this feels like you are warmly encountering timeless wisdom, like from the sharp mind of a well aged senior at leisure before a grand fireplace on a winter's night looking out over the valley.

[Ella87 · Rating 5 out of 5]

"Cato der Ältere über das Alter" gehört in den Bereich der Philosophie.
Cicero beschreibt eine Unterhaltung zwischen Cato, Scipio und Laelius. Allesamt Römer, die um 200 Chr. v. Chr. gelebt haben. Sie - aber vor allem Cato - geben Ratschläge zum Thema "Alter".
Ich will nicht vorweggreifen, aber ich gebe hier mal einen Beispielsatz:

"Wer aber alles Gute bei sich selbst sucht, dem kann nichts schlimm erscheinen, was die Naturnotwendigkeit ihm bringt."

Für mich ist dieses Thema von besonderer Bedeutung, da ich als Betreuungskraft für Senioren arbeite. Aber natürlich kann ich dieses Buch wirklich jedem empfehlen.

[Astor Teller · Rating 4 out of 5]

A homage to old age told by a fictionalised Cato the Elder to two younger friends. It starts out as a dialogue and ends as a monologue and is nicely written but doesn’t give much hands-on advice (unlike Cato’s own book on agriculture which is more practical than lyrical). When Cicero wrote this text Cato had been dead for over hundred years, but it gives an idea of the Roman ideal person in old age (which is a good age according to Cicero/Cato who refutes all the arguments which says otherwise).

[Ainsley Jeffery · Rating 4 out of 5]

Written through the historical voice of Cato the Elder, a notable statesmen from second & third century Rome, Cicero depicts his views on aging written in his seventh decade. My favourite passages come near the end of the essay. There is one that compares his agricultural references from the earlier part, juxtaposing the way farmers work to turn the seasons with different crops the same way life bears fruit to us. The end bits about morality were also standout. This makes me feel nostalgic for a time I haven’t lived yet and grieve with gratitude time passing.