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When Bishops Meet: An Essay Comparing Trent, Vatican I, and Vatican II
From one of our foremost church historians comes an overarching analysis of the three modern Catholic councils―an assessment of what Catholicism was and has become today.
Catholic councils are meetings of bishops. In this unprecedented comparison of the three most recent meetings, John O’Malley traverses more than 450 years of Catholic history and examines the councils’ most pressing and consistent questions of purpose, power, and relevance in a changing world. By offering new, sometimes radical, even troubling perspectives on these convocations, When Bishops Meet analyzes the evolution of the church itself.
The Catholic Church today is shaped by the historical arc starting from Trent in the sixteenth century to Vatican II. The roles of popes, the laity, theologians, and others have varied from the bishop-centered Trent, to Vatican I’s declaration of papal infallibility, to a new balance of power in the mid-twentieth century. At Trent, lay people had direct influence on proceedings. By Vatican II, their presence was token. At each gathering, fundamental issues the relationship between bishops and the papacy, the very purpose of a council, and doctrinal change. Can the teachings of the church, by definition a conservative institution, change over time?
Councils, being ecclesiastical as well as cultural institutions, have always reflected and profoundly influenced their times. Readers familiar with John O’Malley’s earlier work as well as those with no knowledge of councils will find this volume an indispensable guide for essential Who is in charge of the church? What difference did the councils make, and will there be another?
Catholic councils are meetings of bishops. In this unprecedented comparison of the three most recent meetings, John O’Malley traverses more than 450 years of Catholic history and examines the councils’ most pressing and consistent questions of purpose, power, and relevance in a changing world. By offering new, sometimes radical, even troubling perspectives on these convocations, When Bishops Meet analyzes the evolution of the church itself.
The Catholic Church today is shaped by the historical arc starting from Trent in the sixteenth century to Vatican II. The roles of popes, the laity, theologians, and others have varied from the bishop-centered Trent, to Vatican I’s declaration of papal infallibility, to a new balance of power in the mid-twentieth century. At Trent, lay people had direct influence on proceedings. By Vatican II, their presence was token. At each gathering, fundamental issues the relationship between bishops and the papacy, the very purpose of a council, and doctrinal change. Can the teachings of the church, by definition a conservative institution, change over time?
Councils, being ecclesiastical as well as cultural institutions, have always reflected and profoundly influenced their times. Readers familiar with John O’Malley’s earlier work as well as those with no knowledge of councils will find this volume an indispensable guide for essential Who is in charge of the church? What difference did the councils make, and will there be another?
240 pages, Hardcover
Published August 20, 2019
21 people are currently reading
74 people want to read
About the author
John W. O'Malley
49 books48 followersRev. Father John W. O’Malley, SJ, PhD was a professor of theology at the University of Detroit, Weston Jesuit School of Theology, and Georgetown University. His specialty was the history of religious culture in early modern Europe, especially Italy. He received best-book prizes from the American Historical Association, the American Philosophical Society, the Sixteenth Century Studies Conference, the American Catholic Historical Association, and from the Alpha Sigma Nu fraternity. His best known books are The First Jesuits (Harvard University Press, 1993), which has been translated into twelve languages, What Happened at Vatican II (Harvard, 2008), now in six languages, and The Jesuits: A History from Ignatius to the Present (Rowman & Littlefield, 2014), now in seven languages. A companion to the book on Vatican II is his Trent: What Happened at the Council (Harvard, 2012), in five languages. He has edited or co-edited a number of volumes, including three in the Collected Works of Erasmus series, University of Toronto Press. Of special significance is The Jesuits and the Arts, (Saint Joseph’s University Press, 2005), co-edited with Gauvin Alexander Bailey, and Art, Culture, and the Jesuits: The Imago primi saeculi, 1640) (Saint Joseph's University Press, 2015). In 2015 he also published Catholic History for Today's Church: How Our Past Illuminates Our Present (Rowman & Littlefield). He edited a series with Saint Joseph's University Press entitled Early Modern Catholicism and the Visual Arts, in which thirteen titles have appeared to date.
John O’Malley lectured widely in North America and Europe to both professional and general audiences. He held a number of fellowships, from the American Academy in Rome (Prix de Rome), the Guggenheim Foundation, the National Endowment for the Humanities, the American Council of Learned Societies, and other academic organizations. He was a past president of the Renaissance Society of America and of the American Catholic Historical Association. In 1995 he was elected to the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, in 1997 to the American Philosophical Society, and in 2001 to the Accademia di san Carlo, Ambrosian Library, Milan, Italy. He held the Johannes Quasten Medal from The Catholic University of America for distinguished achievement in Religious Studies, and he holds a number of honorary degrees. In 2002 he received the lifetime achievement award from the Society for Italian Historical Studies, in 2005 the corresponding award from the Renaissance Society of America, and in 2012 the corresponding award from the American Catholic Historical Association. He was a Roman Catholic priest and a member of the Society of Jesus.
John O’Malley lectured widely in North America and Europe to both professional and general audiences. He held a number of fellowships, from the American Academy in Rome (Prix de Rome), the Guggenheim Foundation, the National Endowment for the Humanities, the American Council of Learned Societies, and other academic organizations. He was a past president of the Renaissance Society of America and of the American Catholic Historical Association. In 1995 he was elected to the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, in 1997 to the American Philosophical Society, and in 2001 to the Accademia di san Carlo, Ambrosian Library, Milan, Italy. He held the Johannes Quasten Medal from The Catholic University of America for distinguished achievement in Religious Studies, and he holds a number of honorary degrees. In 2002 he received the lifetime achievement award from the Society for Italian Historical Studies, in 2005 the corresponding award from the Renaissance Society of America, and in 2012 the corresponding award from the American Catholic Historical Association. He was a Roman Catholic priest and a member of the Society of Jesus.
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July 2, 2021
This is an indispensable book by one of the foremost historians of Roman Catholicism. John W. O'Malley has already written lauded studies on each of the three ecumenical councils featured in this book but here he breezily compares and contrasts Trent, Vatican I, and Vatican II to showcase the perennial themes that guided these gatherings and what they produced by way of change and reform. 'When Bishops Meet' lacks any citations but O'Malley's previous books on the councils offers a plethora of documentation.
Trent
The three councils had different purposes and attitudes. Trent was originally convened due to Holy Roman Emperor Charles V's hope that the Roman Catholic Church and the upstart Reformers could be reconciled and brought together (Pope Paul III was doubtful this would happen, p. 20). Secular rulers also wanted the church to be reformed but the pope only wanted to address doctrine (pp. 128-30). Still, at Trent no individual PERSONS were condemned; instead, the teachings of the Reformers were critiqued (pp. 20-21).
Ever since the chaos of the Great Western Schism and the Council of Constance, popes had been wary of councils because questions had been raised as to who had greater authority - councils or popes (pp. 60-61)? Papal supremacy vs. collegiality has been an enduring struggle within the upper echelons of Catholic leadership. Papal authority entered into discussions at Trent due to the widespread absenteeism of bishops and clergy in their respective territories. A division arose between the non-Italian (and a few Italian) bishops who wanted it made mandatory that bishops and clergy resided in their territories but the Italian bishops opposed this motion and an unsatisfactory compromise resulted that emphasized the role of the bishop (pp. 66-68). None of the three popes who ruled during Trent ever attended the sessions in person and instead, the popes consulted cardinals (an office which had been established during the Gregorian reforms, pp. 88-87).
Trent changed the Catholic Church in numerous ways. Alongside setting the trajectory for bishops and clergy to reside in their territories, the decree 'Tamesti' substantially reformed and made more distinct Catholic marriage practices, each diocese was made to set up a seminary for poor boys to be trained if they so wished, and a last minute initiative called for Catholic churches to be adorned with sacred images which helped differentiate them from Protestant churches (the Catholic Church's patronage of the arts was greatly aided by Italy, Flanders, and Spain being in Catholic hands, pp. 179-84). Pope Pius VI acquiesced to the wishes of Emperor Ferdinand I and Albrecht V of Bavaria and let the laity have the cup but this was eventually withdrawn because use of the cup by the laity had become a major marker of Protestantism (pp. 178-79). As O'Malley notes, despite aspirations that Trent would unify European Christianity once again, it ironically demarcated Catholics and Protestants all the more.
Vatican I
Vatican I confronted liberalism and the modern world in a defensive posture. The papacy gestured towards Eastern Orthodoxy and Protestantism (though besides the Church of England, Protestantism's plurality made it challenging to figure out how to invite Protestants) but unlike at Trent where the threat was the Reformers, Vatican I saw Enlightenment ideals and skepticism as the adversary to be addressed (pp. 155,-58). Just as the papacy was losing its political clout, its ecclesiastical power tightened over the church (p. 187). Ultramontanists saw the papacy as the source of stability and championed papal infallibility against the minority gallican faction (only about 20% of the attendees of Vatican I, though many from Europe's most prominent sees) which resisted and sought more local episcopal control (p. 73). The decree 'Pastor Aeternus' would proclaim papal supremacy over the Catholic Church but it was only unenthusiastically passed, with many gallicans leaving before even casting a vote on the document (pp. 73-75). Tensions around church authority would continue to persist.
The pope relied heavily on the advice of Jesuit theologians and, despite being the first ecumenical council to have no formal lay participation, leading laymen such as the journalist Louis Veuillot and the gallican Lord Acton helped to propagandize the council's competing perspectives (pp. 136-141). Vatican I helped foster the hypothesis that the Catholic Church has had enduring continuity and in 1907, Pope Pius X published 'Pascendi Dominici gregis,' a fiery condemnation of Modernists and their use of modern critical methods; Modernists would eventually be purged from many Catholic intellectual circles but in the decades after the encyclical, Rome would gradually thaw towards this scholarly methodology, most notably witnessed in the influence of Cardinal John Henry Newman's important work 'Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine' which, unlike Vatican I's insistence on the unchangeability of Catholicism, posited that Catholic tenets had evolved over time (interestingly, Newman's work was published 14 years before Charles Darwin's 'On the Origin of Species,' pp. 44-49).
Despite its militant antimodernism, O'Malley contends that (again, ironically), Vatican I was thoroughly modern,; the consolidation of papal power was a form of modern bureaucratic centralization and "the centralizing impulse called Catholics out of their provincialism into a more expansive vision of the church and, consequently, of the world. It was, to that extent, an early prelude and stimulant to contemporary global awareness. It helped make Catholics more catholic” (p. 185).
Vatican II
Trent and Vatican I were legislative and juridical. They were reactions against Protestantism and the Enlightenment respectively (while also being a interior reflection on the Catholic Church itself). Vatican II was very different, being a positive proclamation, an extravagant gesture of openness towards the world which might set the tone of future councils (it also had an astonishingly high attendance rate - roughly 90% of the episcopacy, p. 86). O'Malley declares that “As modeled in Vatican II, a council is a meeting in which the church takes time out to explore its identity, to recall and develop its most precious values, and to proclaim to the world its sublime vision for humanity. This is new. This is a paradigm shift” (p. 27). No punitive measures were promulgated; instead, of regarding the "Other" as an enemy, Vatican II saw the "Other" as a partner to reach out towards in reconciliation (p.28). Vatican II was less about condemning behaviour and more about encouraging Catholics and the wider world to aspire for holiness and the role of conscience was strongly emphasized as never before (p. 29). Vatican II may have been a surprise council but it was also more heavily controlled by the papacy (pp. 119-20). 'De Fontibus' was presented as the official text of Vatican II but after heavy criticism it was abandoned, paving the way of theologians such as Yves Congar to wield a wider influence on the council's teachings (p. 122-24).
The three guiding concepts of Vatican II were "aggiornamento," development, and ressourcement; together, they revealed that the Catholic Church had a richer and deeper tradition than was previous thought (p. 50). "Aggiornamento" ("bringing up to date") was held as a broad principle that impacted the entirety of the church; the laity felt it in the changes to the Mass, along with Rome's acceptance of ideals with Enlightenment roots, such as liberty, equality, and fraternity, which had been scorned by the previous council (pp. 51-52). This stunning reversal showcased that "Tradition is not inert but dynamic" (p. 52). Ressourcement is often associated with 20th century Catholic theology but O'Malley asserts that it has been a guiding light in the Catholic Church for centuries, such as during the Gregorian reforms and the retrieval of Thomas Aquinas' teachings (pp. 53-54). A greater openness to the "Other" and an ecumenical spirit was also witnessed by the presence of non-Catholic Christians in attendance (pp. 161-62). This openness inspired both 'Unitatis Redintegratio' (Christian ecumenism) and 'Nostra Aetate' (on non-Christian religions) and was all the more astounding since as late as 1950 the encyclical 'Humani Generis' had taken a negative view towards ecumenism (pp. 168, 197-98). Whereas Liberalism was the "Other" at the previous council and fostered a defensive mentality, Vatican II saw the modern world as unavoidable (pp. 158, 163-64). Pope Paul VI addressed the United Nations in French on October 4, 1965, passionately proclaiming the importance of human rights (this was also the first time a pope had visited "the New World," pp. 195-96). Social issues had been on the periphery of Rome's attention preceding the council but Vatican II galvanized Catholic social teaching (pp. 194-95). Reconciliation was the major goal of Vatican II and the "spirit" of Vatican II is alive in the meaningful and significant gestures of Pope Francis.
'When Bishops Meet' is an excellent book that I highly recommend for an orientation to the three most recent ecumenical councils. I learned an enormous amount about each of the councils, as well as about the struggle between bishops and theologians during the medieval period. Universities arose in the 13th century where theology emerged as a separate field; previously, bishops served roles as theological instructors (think of St. Ambrose and St. Augustine, p. 103). As mentioned above, bishops were often absent from their dioceses but they were also often unschooled in the complexities of theology because they deemed such programs too demanding (pp. 104-05). The situation led to two types of teachers - “bishops, who had the right to teach because they were successors of the apostles, and theologians, who claimed the right to teach by virtue of their theological training” and rivalry often ensued (p. 106). The theologians from the University of Paris in particular earned the pope's ire since they leaned conciliarist (p. 109).
Trent
The three councils had different purposes and attitudes. Trent was originally convened due to Holy Roman Emperor Charles V's hope that the Roman Catholic Church and the upstart Reformers could be reconciled and brought together (Pope Paul III was doubtful this would happen, p. 20). Secular rulers also wanted the church to be reformed but the pope only wanted to address doctrine (pp. 128-30). Still, at Trent no individual PERSONS were condemned; instead, the teachings of the Reformers were critiqued (pp. 20-21).
Ever since the chaos of the Great Western Schism and the Council of Constance, popes had been wary of councils because questions had been raised as to who had greater authority - councils or popes (pp. 60-61)? Papal supremacy vs. collegiality has been an enduring struggle within the upper echelons of Catholic leadership. Papal authority entered into discussions at Trent due to the widespread absenteeism of bishops and clergy in their respective territories. A division arose between the non-Italian (and a few Italian) bishops who wanted it made mandatory that bishops and clergy resided in their territories but the Italian bishops opposed this motion and an unsatisfactory compromise resulted that emphasized the role of the bishop (pp. 66-68). None of the three popes who ruled during Trent ever attended the sessions in person and instead, the popes consulted cardinals (an office which had been established during the Gregorian reforms, pp. 88-87).
Trent changed the Catholic Church in numerous ways. Alongside setting the trajectory for bishops and clergy to reside in their territories, the decree 'Tamesti' substantially reformed and made more distinct Catholic marriage practices, each diocese was made to set up a seminary for poor boys to be trained if they so wished, and a last minute initiative called for Catholic churches to be adorned with sacred images which helped differentiate them from Protestant churches (the Catholic Church's patronage of the arts was greatly aided by Italy, Flanders, and Spain being in Catholic hands, pp. 179-84). Pope Pius VI acquiesced to the wishes of Emperor Ferdinand I and Albrecht V of Bavaria and let the laity have the cup but this was eventually withdrawn because use of the cup by the laity had become a major marker of Protestantism (pp. 178-79). As O'Malley notes, despite aspirations that Trent would unify European Christianity once again, it ironically demarcated Catholics and Protestants all the more.
Vatican I
Vatican I confronted liberalism and the modern world in a defensive posture. The papacy gestured towards Eastern Orthodoxy and Protestantism (though besides the Church of England, Protestantism's plurality made it challenging to figure out how to invite Protestants) but unlike at Trent where the threat was the Reformers, Vatican I saw Enlightenment ideals and skepticism as the adversary to be addressed (pp. 155,-58). Just as the papacy was losing its political clout, its ecclesiastical power tightened over the church (p. 187). Ultramontanists saw the papacy as the source of stability and championed papal infallibility against the minority gallican faction (only about 20% of the attendees of Vatican I, though many from Europe's most prominent sees) which resisted and sought more local episcopal control (p. 73). The decree 'Pastor Aeternus' would proclaim papal supremacy over the Catholic Church but it was only unenthusiastically passed, with many gallicans leaving before even casting a vote on the document (pp. 73-75). Tensions around church authority would continue to persist.
The pope relied heavily on the advice of Jesuit theologians and, despite being the first ecumenical council to have no formal lay participation, leading laymen such as the journalist Louis Veuillot and the gallican Lord Acton helped to propagandize the council's competing perspectives (pp. 136-141). Vatican I helped foster the hypothesis that the Catholic Church has had enduring continuity and in 1907, Pope Pius X published 'Pascendi Dominici gregis,' a fiery condemnation of Modernists and their use of modern critical methods; Modernists would eventually be purged from many Catholic intellectual circles but in the decades after the encyclical, Rome would gradually thaw towards this scholarly methodology, most notably witnessed in the influence of Cardinal John Henry Newman's important work 'Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine' which, unlike Vatican I's insistence on the unchangeability of Catholicism, posited that Catholic tenets had evolved over time (interestingly, Newman's work was published 14 years before Charles Darwin's 'On the Origin of Species,' pp. 44-49).
Despite its militant antimodernism, O'Malley contends that (again, ironically), Vatican I was thoroughly modern,; the consolidation of papal power was a form of modern bureaucratic centralization and "the centralizing impulse called Catholics out of their provincialism into a more expansive vision of the church and, consequently, of the world. It was, to that extent, an early prelude and stimulant to contemporary global awareness. It helped make Catholics more catholic” (p. 185).
Vatican II
Trent and Vatican I were legislative and juridical. They were reactions against Protestantism and the Enlightenment respectively (while also being a interior reflection on the Catholic Church itself). Vatican II was very different, being a positive proclamation, an extravagant gesture of openness towards the world which might set the tone of future councils (it also had an astonishingly high attendance rate - roughly 90% of the episcopacy, p. 86). O'Malley declares that “As modeled in Vatican II, a council is a meeting in which the church takes time out to explore its identity, to recall and develop its most precious values, and to proclaim to the world its sublime vision for humanity. This is new. This is a paradigm shift” (p. 27). No punitive measures were promulgated; instead, of regarding the "Other" as an enemy, Vatican II saw the "Other" as a partner to reach out towards in reconciliation (p.28). Vatican II was less about condemning behaviour and more about encouraging Catholics and the wider world to aspire for holiness and the role of conscience was strongly emphasized as never before (p. 29). Vatican II may have been a surprise council but it was also more heavily controlled by the papacy (pp. 119-20). 'De Fontibus' was presented as the official text of Vatican II but after heavy criticism it was abandoned, paving the way of theologians such as Yves Congar to wield a wider influence on the council's teachings (p. 122-24).
The three guiding concepts of Vatican II were "aggiornamento," development, and ressourcement; together, they revealed that the Catholic Church had a richer and deeper tradition than was previous thought (p. 50). "Aggiornamento" ("bringing up to date") was held as a broad principle that impacted the entirety of the church; the laity felt it in the changes to the Mass, along with Rome's acceptance of ideals with Enlightenment roots, such as liberty, equality, and fraternity, which had been scorned by the previous council (pp. 51-52). This stunning reversal showcased that "Tradition is not inert but dynamic" (p. 52). Ressourcement is often associated with 20th century Catholic theology but O'Malley asserts that it has been a guiding light in the Catholic Church for centuries, such as during the Gregorian reforms and the retrieval of Thomas Aquinas' teachings (pp. 53-54). A greater openness to the "Other" and an ecumenical spirit was also witnessed by the presence of non-Catholic Christians in attendance (pp. 161-62). This openness inspired both 'Unitatis Redintegratio' (Christian ecumenism) and 'Nostra Aetate' (on non-Christian religions) and was all the more astounding since as late as 1950 the encyclical 'Humani Generis' had taken a negative view towards ecumenism (pp. 168, 197-98). Whereas Liberalism was the "Other" at the previous council and fostered a defensive mentality, Vatican II saw the modern world as unavoidable (pp. 158, 163-64). Pope Paul VI addressed the United Nations in French on October 4, 1965, passionately proclaiming the importance of human rights (this was also the first time a pope had visited "the New World," pp. 195-96). Social issues had been on the periphery of Rome's attention preceding the council but Vatican II galvanized Catholic social teaching (pp. 194-95). Reconciliation was the major goal of Vatican II and the "spirit" of Vatican II is alive in the meaningful and significant gestures of Pope Francis.
'When Bishops Meet' is an excellent book that I highly recommend for an orientation to the three most recent ecumenical councils. I learned an enormous amount about each of the councils, as well as about the struggle between bishops and theologians during the medieval period. Universities arose in the 13th century where theology emerged as a separate field; previously, bishops served roles as theological instructors (think of St. Ambrose and St. Augustine, p. 103). As mentioned above, bishops were often absent from their dioceses but they were also often unschooled in the complexities of theology because they deemed such programs too demanding (pp. 104-05). The situation led to two types of teachers - “bishops, who had the right to teach because they were successors of the apostles, and theologians, who claimed the right to teach by virtue of their theological training” and rivalry often ensued (p. 106). The theologians from the University of Paris in particular earned the pope's ire since they leaned conciliarist (p. 109).
February 15, 2022
Good But Difficult
This is a book like no other I have ever read. It is excellently written, but far over my head. I’m hoping I can understand some of the concepts inside before the semester is over. Still, even though it’s a difficult read, it’s not without great value.
This is a book like no other I have ever read. It is excellently written, but far over my head. I’m hoping I can understand some of the concepts inside before the semester is over. Still, even though it’s a difficult read, it’s not without great value.
March 20, 2024
A highly original idea for a book which led to some fascinating comparisons.
The author rightly notes that when people write histories of Church councils, they tend to only include incidental comparisons with other councils. Previous to this book, no one had tried to focus a book entirely around a synoptic comparison of councils. This is a first and it is largely successful
Comparisons must inevitably focus on differences. So we hear of how the councils took slightly different approaches to issues, and about the different attitudes of the popes which convened the Councils, and the external pressures which impacted upon the Councils.
But perhaps the most surprising aspect of the book was the large amount of similarity between the councils. Yes, the specific role of laity, or of theologians may have varied in each of the Councils, but the fact that they had a role at all was an interesting point of continuity.
Even more interesting was the way that each of the Council’s tried to reach out to Protestants. It took a different form, in each council, but once again the Councils were surprisingly similar in understanding the importance of engaging those outside of the Church.
One issue sometimes raised about Vatican II is that it changed the Church’s traditional opposition to the separation of Church and State. What emerges in this book is that although that teaching was still in place at Vatican I in 1870, it was already starting to look obsolete. In every Ecumenical Council prior to 1870 Princes and secular rulers had played a role in Church Councils. Yet, for the first time in 1870 political instabilities with monarchies meant that they could not attend, and the sensitivities of secular governments meant that they did not want to associate themselves with the Council. So, here, one hundred years before the Church actually declared it so, Church and State were already on paths of divergence.
Where I think the book could have gone a little further is in its analysis of the organisational factors in the background of Councils. Some of those issues cropped up in the Conclusion, where the author speculated about the logistical problems of holding future councils. But it would have been good to hear more about the actual issues confronting the historical councils featured in the book. It has been suggested, for example, that one of the reasons for Vatican II ending in 1965 was the sheer cost of hosting a council, and thus the unaffordability of letting it run into 1966. Issues like that are almost impossible for anyone but dedicated researchers to probe and draw conclusions about. And it is correspondingly even harder to get a sense for such matters with other councils. It would have been informative if the author could have addressed issues like that.
Overall this is a very readable story of three councils. The book includes a lot of different issues in its comparisons, so readers with an already existing background understanding of Christianity will probably find the book most interesting.
The author rightly notes that when people write histories of Church councils, they tend to only include incidental comparisons with other councils. Previous to this book, no one had tried to focus a book entirely around a synoptic comparison of councils. This is a first and it is largely successful
Comparisons must inevitably focus on differences. So we hear of how the councils took slightly different approaches to issues, and about the different attitudes of the popes which convened the Councils, and the external pressures which impacted upon the Councils.
But perhaps the most surprising aspect of the book was the large amount of similarity between the councils. Yes, the specific role of laity, or of theologians may have varied in each of the Councils, but the fact that they had a role at all was an interesting point of continuity.
Even more interesting was the way that each of the Council’s tried to reach out to Protestants. It took a different form, in each council, but once again the Councils were surprisingly similar in understanding the importance of engaging those outside of the Church.
One issue sometimes raised about Vatican II is that it changed the Church’s traditional opposition to the separation of Church and State. What emerges in this book is that although that teaching was still in place at Vatican I in 1870, it was already starting to look obsolete. In every Ecumenical Council prior to 1870 Princes and secular rulers had played a role in Church Councils. Yet, for the first time in 1870 political instabilities with monarchies meant that they could not attend, and the sensitivities of secular governments meant that they did not want to associate themselves with the Council. So, here, one hundred years before the Church actually declared it so, Church and State were already on paths of divergence.
Where I think the book could have gone a little further is in its analysis of the organisational factors in the background of Councils. Some of those issues cropped up in the Conclusion, where the author speculated about the logistical problems of holding future councils. But it would have been good to hear more about the actual issues confronting the historical councils featured in the book. It has been suggested, for example, that one of the reasons for Vatican II ending in 1965 was the sheer cost of hosting a council, and thus the unaffordability of letting it run into 1966. Issues like that are almost impossible for anyone but dedicated researchers to probe and draw conclusions about. And it is correspondingly even harder to get a sense for such matters with other councils. It would have been informative if the author could have addressed issues like that.
Overall this is a very readable story of three councils. The book includes a lot of different issues in its comparisons, so readers with an already existing background understanding of Christianity will probably find the book most interesting.
June 5, 2022
4 ☆
Finished reading ... When bishops meet: an essay comparing Trent, Vatican I, and Vatican II / John W. O'Malley ... 01 June 2022
ISBN: 9780674988415 ... 223 pp. incl Index
This little book is a welcome coda to the books O'Malley has written on the three councils of the title. It does what it says on the cover, comparing the councils in three ways, being the three parts of the book and the chapters within each.
Three great issues: What do councils do?, Does church teaching change?, Who is in charge?
Participants: Popes and curia, Theologians, Laity, Other
Impact and future: What difference did the councils make?, Will there be another one?
As a Vatican II Catholic who rues the lack of implementation that should have happened following that council, I found this a satisfying read. Anyone wishing that what of the council has been implemented could be undone might not.
Highly recommended reading for anyone who has read O'Malley's books on the councils or who has a reasonable knowledge of the councils from other sources. Without such knowledge, this volume would only make limited sense.
Finished reading ... When bishops meet: an essay comparing Trent, Vatican I, and Vatican II / John W. O'Malley ... 01 June 2022
ISBN: 9780674988415 ... 223 pp. incl Index
This little book is a welcome coda to the books O'Malley has written on the three councils of the title. It does what it says on the cover, comparing the councils in three ways, being the three parts of the book and the chapters within each.
Three great issues: What do councils do?, Does church teaching change?, Who is in charge?
Participants: Popes and curia, Theologians, Laity, Other
Impact and future: What difference did the councils make?, Will there be another one?
As a Vatican II Catholic who rues the lack of implementation that should have happened following that council, I found this a satisfying read. Anyone wishing that what of the council has been implemented could be undone might not.
Highly recommended reading for anyone who has read O'Malley's books on the councils or who has a reasonable knowledge of the councils from other sources. Without such knowledge, this volume would only make limited sense.
May 2, 2025
This is a side-by-side comparison of the three modern Church councils, Trent, Vatican I and Vatican II. Each chapter looks at a different structural topic such as its intended purpose, the involvement of professional theologians, the dynamic between pope and bishops.
May 4, 2022
A brilliant synopsis and analysis of three intricate Ecumenical Councils and their inner workings, context, and impact.
Displaying 1 - 6 of 6 reviews