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Great State: China and the World
China is one of the oldest states in the world. It achieved its approximate current borders with the Ascendancy of the Yuan dynasty in the 13th century, and despite the passing of one Imperial dynasty to the next, it has maintained them for the eight centuries since. Even the European colonial powers at the height of their power could not move past coastal enclaves. Thus, China remained China through the Ming, the Qing, the Republic, the Occupation, and Communism. But, despite the desires of some of the most powerful people in the Great State through the ages, China has never been alone in the world. It has had to contend with invaders from the steppe and the challenges posed by foreign traders and imperialists. Indeed, its rulers for the majority of the last eight centuries have not been Chinese. Timothy Brook examines China's relationship with the world from the Yuan through to the present by following the stories of ordinary and extraordinary people navigating the spaces where China met and meets the world. Bureaucrats, horse traders, spiritual leaders, explorers, pirates, emperors, invaders, migrant workers, traitors, and visionaries: this is a history of China as no one has told it before.
442 pages, Hardcover
First published January 1, 2019
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About the author
Timothy Brook
32 books104 followersTimothy James Brook is a Canadian historian, sinologist, and writer specializing in the study of China (sinology). He holds the Republic of China Chair, Department of History, University of British Columbia.
His research interests include the social and cultural history of the Ming Dynasty in China; law and punishment in Imperial China; collaboration during Japan's wartime occupation of China, 1937–45 and war crimes trials in Asia; global history; and historiography.
His research interests include the social and cultural history of the Ming Dynasty in China; law and punishment in Imperial China; collaboration during Japan's wartime occupation of China, 1937–45 and war crimes trials in Asia; global history; and historiography.
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October 25, 2020
Great State: China and the World, by Timothy Brook, is an interesting book that contains a number of historical analogies for China and its interactions with the world as a whole. Written in a style that pays homage to how China historically recorded its history - through stories and anecdotes that could be learned as lessons for how to proceed in the present, this book is interesting in its approach, and authoritative in its message - that China's history is not isolated to China, and it has always had a major impact on the world, and the world has always had a major impact on it and its history. This book looks at a dozen or so stories of China's past in the world, some fascinating, some relatively rote.
The book begins in the Yuan dynasty, what the author terms as the earliest moment of China in the global community. This is because the founding of the Yuan state by Khubilai Khan was a major moment in history, uniting the major khanate's in Russia, Iran, China and Central Asia into a political entity closely akin to a federation. Khubilai was the great khan, ruling over China, but also exerting influence far beyond China's borders. The Yuan dynasty sent princesses to marry in Persia, attempted to invade Japan and Korea, and set up a major tributary system that brought diplomats from around Asia and beyond to the capital. One story in this book discusses the Polo's trips to China, and there assistance in delivering a Mongol princess as a bride to the ruler of the Il-Khanate. As we move through history, we move into new dynasties, like the Ming. The treasure ships of Zheng He are discussed, particularly China's missions to Sri Lanka, where they ended up kidnapping the current King as a hostage to extract political concessions. Another interesting story discusses a conflict between two officials over allowing Christian missionaries to reside in China, one arguing for opening up to receive technological concessions, and the other arguing for their expulsion to ensure the realm is secure. We look at Chinese influence in Malaysian trading communities during the early days of the English East India Company. These stories are quick and easy to digest, and do have some bearing on modern events, and how the author posits China will move into the future. The author notes the neo-colonial/neo-hegemonic tendencies that are possible within China, alluding to the historical Western unease at Chinese power in the global community. These claims may have merit - just ask the Tibetans, Uighurs, Mongols and China's neighbours in the region. Even so, this hegemonic movement is not unusual to any states - the author notes that all Great States are founded on colonialism - Russia, the US and China all expanded into jurisdictions that were controlled by different peoples throughout there histories. The author also discusses neocolonialsim in the epilogue, and how China is not immune to both being targeted and targeting others in this respect.
This book was interesting and fun to read. One clear issue, in my opinion, is the Eurocentric nature of the books and stories here. Each one is more focused on European and American experiences than those of the Chinese people themselves, who are often ignored or relegated to the sidelines here. Another is the sourcing; as this is a book of stories, there is little sourcing here, and much of the historical facts are presented from the authors point of view, and contain little in the notes section regarding sources. The sources here are not terrible, but certainly lacking to give these facts and the lessons on offer any clout beyond opinion or speculation. This was an interesting book for sure, and one worth reading for the China watchers among us, and especially for those looking for a spot to begin. The discourse, however, is a bit weak here, and better analysis exists from many other sources, whether it be the constant barrage of high quality analysis of Chinese events from a Western perspective that are more fair and balanced (the Economist, MERICS, Brookings Institute, and so on and so on) or better books about China's interactions with the world, like Imperial China 900-1800. This is but a taste of what is out there, and I would encourage readers to look beyond this analysis to seek more depth and discussion. China's place in the world is so analysed by the global community, that it is almost a trope. This is irrelevant, as China will continue to exert a large influence on the global community. It is important to take steps to study Chinese history, culture, economics and politics, not only for nations to take measures to benefit from this shifting geopolitical reality, whether through trade and political gains, or from an expanding view of the world that encompasses more than just a Western perspective. It is also important to consider biased and varied opinions - the geopolitical shifts the world is experiencing will benefit some, and harm some. It will not take place in a vacuum, and may transcend notions of "good or bad" as any shift in geopolitics has in the past. All we can be sure of is it will be something different, and is certainly fascinating for this reader. Give this book a shot for a quick taste of Chinese history in the globe, and maybe look further.
The book begins in the Yuan dynasty, what the author terms as the earliest moment of China in the global community. This is because the founding of the Yuan state by Khubilai Khan was a major moment in history, uniting the major khanate's in Russia, Iran, China and Central Asia into a political entity closely akin to a federation. Khubilai was the great khan, ruling over China, but also exerting influence far beyond China's borders. The Yuan dynasty sent princesses to marry in Persia, attempted to invade Japan and Korea, and set up a major tributary system that brought diplomats from around Asia and beyond to the capital. One story in this book discusses the Polo's trips to China, and there assistance in delivering a Mongol princess as a bride to the ruler of the Il-Khanate. As we move through history, we move into new dynasties, like the Ming. The treasure ships of Zheng He are discussed, particularly China's missions to Sri Lanka, where they ended up kidnapping the current King as a hostage to extract political concessions. Another interesting story discusses a conflict between two officials over allowing Christian missionaries to reside in China, one arguing for opening up to receive technological concessions, and the other arguing for their expulsion to ensure the realm is secure. We look at Chinese influence in Malaysian trading communities during the early days of the English East India Company. These stories are quick and easy to digest, and do have some bearing on modern events, and how the author posits China will move into the future. The author notes the neo-colonial/neo-hegemonic tendencies that are possible within China, alluding to the historical Western unease at Chinese power in the global community. These claims may have merit - just ask the Tibetans, Uighurs, Mongols and China's neighbours in the region. Even so, this hegemonic movement is not unusual to any states - the author notes that all Great States are founded on colonialism - Russia, the US and China all expanded into jurisdictions that were controlled by different peoples throughout there histories. The author also discusses neocolonialsim in the epilogue, and how China is not immune to both being targeted and targeting others in this respect.
This book was interesting and fun to read. One clear issue, in my opinion, is the Eurocentric nature of the books and stories here. Each one is more focused on European and American experiences than those of the Chinese people themselves, who are often ignored or relegated to the sidelines here. Another is the sourcing; as this is a book of stories, there is little sourcing here, and much of the historical facts are presented from the authors point of view, and contain little in the notes section regarding sources. The sources here are not terrible, but certainly lacking to give these facts and the lessons on offer any clout beyond opinion or speculation. This was an interesting book for sure, and one worth reading for the China watchers among us, and especially for those looking for a spot to begin. The discourse, however, is a bit weak here, and better analysis exists from many other sources, whether it be the constant barrage of high quality analysis of Chinese events from a Western perspective that are more fair and balanced (the Economist, MERICS, Brookings Institute, and so on and so on) or better books about China's interactions with the world, like Imperial China 900-1800. This is but a taste of what is out there, and I would encourage readers to look beyond this analysis to seek more depth and discussion. China's place in the world is so analysed by the global community, that it is almost a trope. This is irrelevant, as China will continue to exert a large influence on the global community. It is important to take steps to study Chinese history, culture, economics and politics, not only for nations to take measures to benefit from this shifting geopolitical reality, whether through trade and political gains, or from an expanding view of the world that encompasses more than just a Western perspective. It is also important to consider biased and varied opinions - the geopolitical shifts the world is experiencing will benefit some, and harm some. It will not take place in a vacuum, and may transcend notions of "good or bad" as any shift in geopolitics has in the past. All we can be sure of is it will be something different, and is certainly fascinating for this reader. Give this book a shot for a quick taste of Chinese history in the globe, and maybe look further.
October 12, 2019
The underlying contention of Timothy Brook’s latest work is that China’s conception of itself – the ‘Great State’ of the title – is derived not from the extremely dubious (ridiculous) assertion of 5000 years of Chinese civilisation but instead from the worldview of The Mongols who had conquered China by 1279 and founded the Yuan Dynasty or Da Yuan – the Yuan Great State.
This concept of the Mongols, later inherited by the Han Chinese of the Ming Great State (1368-1644) and then by those other ‘barbarian’ conquerors of China, the Manchus, who founded the Qing Great State (1644-1911), laid the claim that ‘the sovereign of the Great State was endowed with an authority that was potentially universal: those within must submit to his authority, those without must defer to it.’
Timothy Brook argues that this concept matters because it lies at the very foundation of how the people who lived within the Great State saw themselves, so much so that even Chinese pirates – and, therefore, outlaws – would boast to their victims that they were subjects of the Great State.
In furtherance of this contention, Timothy Brook gives us thirteen chapters describing the Great State’s interaction with the rest of the world, each chapter a short historical account from a different and successive time period: stories that range from the Mongols laying siege to the city of Caffa in 1346, to an Englishman’s desire to get justice from a Chinese thief in Bantam in 1604, to the trial of a Chinese collaborator in 1946 in Shanghai after the Second World War.
I will leave it to others to judge how successful Timothy Brook has been in selecting these different accounts to support his contention. All I will say is that, for me at least, I found myself getting wrapped up in these stories – they are that interesting – and often losing sight of the over-arching argument that Timothy Brook is attempting to make. Some chapters, I think, are more successful (and therefore enjoyable) than others. I particularly admired the chapter on the Mongols and the Black Death – in itself worth the price of the book – and the chapter on the French merchant Charles de Constant and his Chinese man-servant Lum Akao who arrived in London in 1793. I can quite believe, though, that other readers will select other chapters as their favourites. Much will depend on which period of Chinese history interests the reader.
The book is extremely accessible and written for everyone, not just the Chinese history specialist. But some prior knowledge of Chinese history would I think prove useful, so that each of these separate stories can be put into its proper historical context.
The book concludes on a rather depressing note: that the People’s Republic of China not only continues to see itself as the victim of colonialism but also – as the latest incarnation of the Great State – itself practices colonialism (Tibet, Inner Mongolian, Xinjiang) and neo-colonialism (Ecuador, Sri Lanka, etc.) through its predatory financial and trade practices around the world, posing, perhaps, the greatest threat to the current world order as enshrined in the articles of the United Nations.
All in all a great book and highly recommended.
This concept of the Mongols, later inherited by the Han Chinese of the Ming Great State (1368-1644) and then by those other ‘barbarian’ conquerors of China, the Manchus, who founded the Qing Great State (1644-1911), laid the claim that ‘the sovereign of the Great State was endowed with an authority that was potentially universal: those within must submit to his authority, those without must defer to it.’
Timothy Brook argues that this concept matters because it lies at the very foundation of how the people who lived within the Great State saw themselves, so much so that even Chinese pirates – and, therefore, outlaws – would boast to their victims that they were subjects of the Great State.
In furtherance of this contention, Timothy Brook gives us thirteen chapters describing the Great State’s interaction with the rest of the world, each chapter a short historical account from a different and successive time period: stories that range from the Mongols laying siege to the city of Caffa in 1346, to an Englishman’s desire to get justice from a Chinese thief in Bantam in 1604, to the trial of a Chinese collaborator in 1946 in Shanghai after the Second World War.
I will leave it to others to judge how successful Timothy Brook has been in selecting these different accounts to support his contention. All I will say is that, for me at least, I found myself getting wrapped up in these stories – they are that interesting – and often losing sight of the over-arching argument that Timothy Brook is attempting to make. Some chapters, I think, are more successful (and therefore enjoyable) than others. I particularly admired the chapter on the Mongols and the Black Death – in itself worth the price of the book – and the chapter on the French merchant Charles de Constant and his Chinese man-servant Lum Akao who arrived in London in 1793. I can quite believe, though, that other readers will select other chapters as their favourites. Much will depend on which period of Chinese history interests the reader.
The book is extremely accessible and written for everyone, not just the Chinese history specialist. But some prior knowledge of Chinese history would I think prove useful, so that each of these separate stories can be put into its proper historical context.
The book concludes on a rather depressing note: that the People’s Republic of China not only continues to see itself as the victim of colonialism but also – as the latest incarnation of the Great State – itself practices colonialism (Tibet, Inner Mongolian, Xinjiang) and neo-colonialism (Ecuador, Sri Lanka, etc.) through its predatory financial and trade practices around the world, posing, perhaps, the greatest threat to the current world order as enshrined in the articles of the United Nations.
All in all a great book and highly recommended.
February 3, 2021
A collection of stories and historical fragments used to ask questions about the relationship between Chinese states and their neighbors. The book does not really contain so much of a main argument, but instead a collection of themes.
The title, Great State comes from a Mongolian term, "yeke ulus", and it is from the Mongolian Yuan dynasty in the 13th century that Brook starts his stories. The Great State was not nominally tied to a single family but had aspirations towards universal expansion. He doesn't really make comparisons to any of the previous dynasties but takes this as a starting point anyway. There were other dynasties that called themselves Great. Nor is China, across so many dynasties and one Republic, constant and unchanging - its relationships with its neighbors (Mongolia, Korea, Japan, Tibet) all vary, along with a relationship to foreign powers. This results in so many complex and intense discussions - some of the best chapters in the book are from Ming Dynasty debates on what exactly to do.
While not exactly for the very beginner, this is still an interesting book, dotted with so many anecdotes or short biographies.
The title, Great State comes from a Mongolian term, "yeke ulus", and it is from the Mongolian Yuan dynasty in the 13th century that Brook starts his stories. The Great State was not nominally tied to a single family but had aspirations towards universal expansion. He doesn't really make comparisons to any of the previous dynasties but takes this as a starting point anyway. There were other dynasties that called themselves Great. Nor is China, across so many dynasties and one Republic, constant and unchanging - its relationships with its neighbors (Mongolia, Korea, Japan, Tibet) all vary, along with a relationship to foreign powers. This results in so many complex and intense discussions - some of the best chapters in the book are from Ming Dynasty debates on what exactly to do.
While not exactly for the very beginner, this is still an interesting book, dotted with so many anecdotes or short biographies.
May 6, 2021
This book is actually really sweet (minus the epilogue and some episodes). It offers its reader a "taste" of both Chinese history and the global history in the last 800 years, using little historical miniatures from author’s favorite topics (judging by his bibliography): cartography, art, trade. Some of them are fascinating and inspire you to read more about specific period of Chinese (and European) history, others feel unnecessary and forced, included only to complete a timeline or make a specific point. Not detailed/balanced enough to be a good introduction to the topic, this is none the less an interesting book. Weakest part of it is that it is also an "IDEA" book. The author tries to convince you that his concept of "great state" is helpful not only in analyzing the period of Mongolian lordship, but throughout remaining Chinese history, including the China of today. Linking the ability and will of a great power to dominate other countries to its distant past is a trick all popular history books try to pull and it should be mostly ignored in this case.
December 30, 2021
I thought it was a great telling of history because it follows human narratives that you can empathise with and so vibe with the contemporaneous zeitgeist. Honestly would have given 5 stars had the author not made silly mistakes about Singapore:
“Raja Bongsu, the brother of the sultan of Johor (now Singapore)…”
“…Parameswara had been the youthful ruler of Johor (today’s Singapore)”
“Wu Lien-teh, a Singaporean doctor…” (Wu was Malayan)
“Raja Bongsu, the brother of the sultan of Johor (now Singapore)…”
“…Parameswara had been the youthful ruler of Johor (today’s Singapore)”
“Wu Lien-teh, a Singaporean doctor…” (Wu was Malayan)
Want to read
February 21, 2020"China is lying about Coronavirus"
Tom Cotton, US Senator
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opini...
Tom Cotton, US Senator
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opini...
October 18, 2021
One of the ways in which Ronald Reagan transformed American politics was by raising the anecdote to the position of preferred means of debate and eliminating statistics as a meaningful input in meaningful dialogue. Voters don't really understand statistics and Mark Twain's pejorative comments about them never helped their reputation. But everybody loves a good story and a lot of specifics are not required for an amusing anecdote.
I mention this because in Timothy Brook has written this book without a lot of the chronology that has glazed the eyes of generations of history students and has presented thirteen fascinating stories about people from different periods of Chinese history. And even better, unlike Reagan's stories about welfare queens driving Cadillacs that he heard from stagehands or down at the country club, Brook has found dozens of primary sources from previous centuries and woven interesting stories using actual facts and descriptions provided by the subjects or their contemporaries. This makes for a book that reads like a collection of some very good stories, connected by the thread of China's connections with the rest of the world at various times in its history.
I mention this because in Timothy Brook has written this book without a lot of the chronology that has glazed the eyes of generations of history students and has presented thirteen fascinating stories about people from different periods of Chinese history. And even better, unlike Reagan's stories about welfare queens driving Cadillacs that he heard from stagehands or down at the country club, Brook has found dozens of primary sources from previous centuries and woven interesting stories using actual facts and descriptions provided by the subjects or their contemporaries. This makes for a book that reads like a collection of some very good stories, connected by the thread of China's connections with the rest of the world at various times in its history.
June 10, 2025
This book entered my life at a particularly challenging time. I was between two transcendental, life-changing decisions, and it was not the right choice at the time. The book is dense from a writing style point of view, and when I get around to reading it, I'm just too tired to tackle it.
My rating might not be the most accurate, therefore. However, if you are interested in China's evolution in history since the creation of the State, going through its many splits and mergings, please go ahead and give it a chance.
So far, the book has been sitting on my nightstand, and I can't bear to have it looking at me every night anymore. I need closure :)
My rating might not be the most accurate, therefore. However, if you are interested in China's evolution in history since the creation of the State, going through its many splits and mergings, please go ahead and give it a chance.
So far, the book has been sitting on my nightstand, and I can't bear to have it looking at me every night anymore. I need closure :)
March 15, 2023
I thoroughly enjoyed this book; a collection of thirteen "stories" arranged sequentially through Chinese history, it avoids the boring nature of most history books by focusing on very specific situations where China and the world interact, and doing so in a literary and attention-grabbing way. I particularly liked one aspect of the story-telling, that each story generally had an artifact -- a painting, a monument, a map -- as a major element of the story. Each artifact was a bit of a time machine, transporting me back to some physical representation of what still endures in the story.
While many readers will focus on the expansionist elements of the Chinese Great State, as well as the historical tendency to "set the rules for others to defer to", I was equally intrigued by the transitions of the west, and their expectation that China would embrace each of these transitions: ending slavery, embracing free trade, ending "cruel and unusual punishment", freedom of navigation.... The west had long embraced the precedents of slavery, mercantilism, cruel and unusual punishments and restricted navigation. I grapple with friends in Asia who see nothing but hypocrisy in the west. However, most of these "advances" towards a liberal order were based on fundamental philosophical shifts regarding the rights of man. So while a book on China, we can see the West reflected in almost every story.
A third aspect of the book i liked is that so many of the stories took place outside China -- Mongolia, Sri Lanka / Ceylon, Java, Johannesburg, ... The book also reflected changing attitudes towards China -- from exotic source of silk and other tradeable goods to a disparaged, medieval country that could not govern itself. It is interesting how modern photography undermined the more positive view of China.
While many readers will focus on the expansionist elements of the Chinese Great State, as well as the historical tendency to "set the rules for others to defer to", I was equally intrigued by the transitions of the west, and their expectation that China would embrace each of these transitions: ending slavery, embracing free trade, ending "cruel and unusual punishment", freedom of navigation.... The west had long embraced the precedents of slavery, mercantilism, cruel and unusual punishments and restricted navigation. I grapple with friends in Asia who see nothing but hypocrisy in the west. However, most of these "advances" towards a liberal order were based on fundamental philosophical shifts regarding the rights of man. So while a book on China, we can see the West reflected in almost every story.
A third aspect of the book i liked is that so many of the stories took place outside China -- Mongolia, Sri Lanka / Ceylon, Java, Johannesburg, ... The book also reflected changing attitudes towards China -- from exotic source of silk and other tradeable goods to a disparaged, medieval country that could not govern itself. It is interesting how modern photography undermined the more positive view of China.
October 5, 2024
Solid, not really up my alley too much but well written and an interesting style
August 9, 2021
The book is very richly researched, expansive in time, geography, histories and cultures. The Author an expert in Chinese ancient and recent history gave us a series of historical vignettes of China and its people through the millennia in a finely balanced approach of mixed narrative with analysis. Me who considers myself somewhat versed in the history still finds it thought provoking and reaped thankful benefits.
Here are a few things I would like to point out that I found as blemish in this book that is hard to gloss over.
1. The very concept of 'Great State'. Author contends that, the 'great state' (I interpret his such notion means an imperialistic leviathan that's autocratic, expansionary and hegemonic) started with Yuan (Mongol) great state. The author made little efforts to distinguish why the great empires (Chin, Han, Sui, Tang, Song) are not great states, because they evidently fit precisely that definition.
2. In Author's epilogue where he veered, dangerously for a historian I may add, into present day international politics, he contends that the ideal of unified china also started with Yuan Great state. I would argue this could not be further from the truth. All prior empires all cohered under the same idealism of unity under heaven.
3. Author just stated without justification the cross strait issue as a post colonial problem and then waxed lyrical about decolonization efforts at UN post war. It is rather disingenuous to assert over this civil war outcome as an absurd Chinese colonizing over Chinese situation. One may point to author as Republic of China (in Taiwan that is) endowed chair to find clue.
4. Author also played on the fashionable sinophobia by augering darkly a unilateralist future under pax sinica. Setting aside if pax sinica will ever happen or it is china’s design at all, everyone who has been alive in the last 20 years would know which country is often associated with unilateralism with impunity. Author is curiously silent on that.
One wonders why the author placed such emphasis on Yuan/Ming period perhaps he is an expert hence saw more significant than others would.
Nevertheless, each and individual stories are worthy and entertaining on their own let alone in such an anthology.
Here are a few things I would like to point out that I found as blemish in this book that is hard to gloss over.
1. The very concept of 'Great State'. Author contends that, the 'great state' (I interpret his such notion means an imperialistic leviathan that's autocratic, expansionary and hegemonic) started with Yuan (Mongol) great state. The author made little efforts to distinguish why the great empires (Chin, Han, Sui, Tang, Song) are not great states, because they evidently fit precisely that definition.
2. In Author's epilogue where he veered, dangerously for a historian I may add, into present day international politics, he contends that the ideal of unified china also started with Yuan Great state. I would argue this could not be further from the truth. All prior empires all cohered under the same idealism of unity under heaven.
3. Author just stated without justification the cross strait issue as a post colonial problem and then waxed lyrical about decolonization efforts at UN post war. It is rather disingenuous to assert over this civil war outcome as an absurd Chinese colonizing over Chinese situation. One may point to author as Republic of China (in Taiwan that is) endowed chair to find clue.
4. Author also played on the fashionable sinophobia by augering darkly a unilateralist future under pax sinica. Setting aside if pax sinica will ever happen or it is china’s design at all, everyone who has been alive in the last 20 years would know which country is often associated with unilateralism with impunity. Author is curiously silent on that.
One wonders why the author placed such emphasis on Yuan/Ming period perhaps he is an expert hence saw more significant than others would.
Nevertheless, each and individual stories are worthy and entertaining on their own let alone in such an anthology.
November 1, 2021
Magnífico libro constituido por pinceladas de la historia china que nos van descubriendo más del carácter de esta nación, relatos aparentemente sencillos pero que esconden un calado inmenso para el lector y que culmina en un epílogo magistral que nos deja un regusto amargo ante lo que se nos puede avecinar.
Escrito con un estilo ágil y directo. el libro se lee de un tirón a pesar de sus dimensiones y deja con ganas de leer más y con la pena de haber terminado un gran volumen.
Escrito con un estilo ágil y directo. el libro se lee de un tirón a pesar de sus dimensiones y deja con ganas de leer más y con la pena de haber terminado un gran volumen.
November 14, 2020
Some interesting views into eras of Chinese history.
Lost interest near the end, but then, I'm more interested in earlier Chinese history.
Lost interest near the end, but then, I'm more interested in earlier Chinese history.
June 22, 2022
This is a 3.75/5 for me, rounded up to a 4.
I was immediately intrigued when I saw this book in the gift shop of the National Museum of Asian Art in Washington DC and wasted no time putting it on hold at my local library. The volume is described as a series of what my French civ professor in undergrad referred to as “lieux de mémoire”, or places of memory that resonate in modern times and help explain current events or cultural practices. Each of a dozen chapters document China’s sometimes-reluctant place on the world stage from the declaration of the Mongol Yuan Dynasty (literally translated as “great state”, hence the title of this book) to the victory of the People’s Liberation Army over the collaborationist National Party regime following World War II.
The depth of scholarship and long engagement with China on the part of the author is evident, but I think he sometimes gets tripped up in the minutiae of the stories he has researched and recounted. The earlier chapters dealing with the Yuan and the Ming are largely engaging but as we enter the 1700s the chapters began to lose some of their narrative cohesion and I found it hard to follow which Europeans were involved with which Chinese. The later chapters picked up again for me, and the author’s forecast of what he calls China’s neo-hegemony for the world stage is thought-provoking and eye-opening.
Great for those already interested in China both ancient and modern, but I think many folks would find this a slog if they picked it up as a bit of narrative nonfiction. This is decidedly scholarly.
I was immediately intrigued when I saw this book in the gift shop of the National Museum of Asian Art in Washington DC and wasted no time putting it on hold at my local library. The volume is described as a series of what my French civ professor in undergrad referred to as “lieux de mémoire”, or places of memory that resonate in modern times and help explain current events or cultural practices. Each of a dozen chapters document China’s sometimes-reluctant place on the world stage from the declaration of the Mongol Yuan Dynasty (literally translated as “great state”, hence the title of this book) to the victory of the People’s Liberation Army over the collaborationist National Party regime following World War II.
The depth of scholarship and long engagement with China on the part of the author is evident, but I think he sometimes gets tripped up in the minutiae of the stories he has researched and recounted. The earlier chapters dealing with the Yuan and the Ming are largely engaging but as we enter the 1700s the chapters began to lose some of their narrative cohesion and I found it hard to follow which Europeans were involved with which Chinese. The later chapters picked up again for me, and the author’s forecast of what he calls China’s neo-hegemony for the world stage is thought-provoking and eye-opening.
Great for those already interested in China both ancient and modern, but I think many folks would find this a slog if they picked it up as a bit of narrative nonfiction. This is decidedly scholarly.
September 22, 2021
If you are used to your history books taking broad strokes and epic generalizations this is the complete opposite. The story of China, well at least the story of the concept of the Great State-the seven century long vision for China as a political body-is told through roughly a dozen intimate stories. These begin with a painting in the court of Kublai Khan that helps explain the transformative effect of the Yuan Great State on future dynastic rule in China. My favorite story was of a trial of a member of the executive body of a Japanese-supported Chinese government who is charged with aiding the enemy and treason by the victorious Nationalists in 1945. These smaller stories provide a detailed context for hinge moments in the story of the Great State leading to its final iteration, the PRC.
November 24, 2022
Brook is a professor of history and sinology, and evidently is also an extremely good writer. Not a scholarly text, this is an effort to inform the general public of the nature of Chinese concepts of state and nation, certainly an important topic in our time. But though written for a popular audience, his erudition and the historical method shine through. He eschews the conventionally linear narrative of popular history books and instead presents a series of vignettes scattered through time from ~1300 to ~1950. Each is a "short story" illustrating the interactions between Those Under Heaven ("Chinese") and Those Not ("foreigners"), and each analyzes a historical text or artifact or work of art to show how we can reconstruct each of these short stories. I use quotes to emphasize that "Chinese" and "foreigner" are fluid concepts that changed over time; an important theme is that concepts of nation and state are not at all static, and fundamentally are constructs of their time and place. Brook thinks the current Chinese conception of nation and state profoundly contradicts the conception of most other members of the current system of nation-states. A useful thing to keep in mind as the PRC and the USA increasingly compete and contest real geographical space populated with real people, such as Taiwan.
July 19, 2023
A collection of interesting historical snapshots that do not really assemble into anything more.
March 17, 2021
The reason why I give this a 1 star because of the purpose it has been written for the most part.
As the last chapter reveals I would call that chapter the China bashing chapter.
It does not fit in the book nor has it any place in its structure and people who will read this book in general most likely have no interest in it.
The end lots of lies also not based on evidence just the usual China is bad Chinese see demons it is a real pity and the author should be ashamed.
As I am stating this probably some people will come with the usual you are paid by the CCP if that logic applies to me because I don't v want to speak negatively on China than we can safely assume that the author is being paid by the CIA and warmongering military complex.
I am disgusted by this book as it tricks you into it and tries to indocternatie you into hating China.
As the last chapter reveals I would call that chapter the China bashing chapter.
It does not fit in the book nor has it any place in its structure and people who will read this book in general most likely have no interest in it.
The end lots of lies also not based on evidence just the usual China is bad Chinese see demons it is a real pity and the author should be ashamed.
As I am stating this probably some people will come with the usual you are paid by the CCP if that logic applies to me because I don't v want to speak negatively on China than we can safely assume that the author is being paid by the CIA and warmongering military complex.
I am disgusted by this book as it tricks you into it and tries to indocternatie you into hating China.
January 8, 2023
This was very fun to read (as opposed to a typical synoptic history), basically constructed out of a set of thirteen distinct interactions between China and the outer world that are then used to illuminate certain ideas the author has. These stories are often delightful to read, though one sometimes loses track of the broader argument being made. This leads to the sense that the author's argument (that today's China is in fact a product of the Yuan Dynasty) is not always very watertight. Also, while it is accessible in the sense of not assuming any knowledge, it is also perhaps not exactly approachable in that many of the complexities and gaps between the anecdotes will have to be filled yourself.
Enjoyable for anyone who liked history class in school, though, I'm sure.
Enjoyable for anyone who liked history class in school, though, I'm sure.
June 27, 2021
*I did appreciate that the author humanized history by telling it from the perspectives of its characters
*The drawback to this approach is that the book feels more like narrow anecdotes rather than the big picture
*I wish the book had more balance between micro and macro perspectives
*This book begins with some vague thesis about China deriving its self-identity, including the idea of being a "Great State," from Mongolian rule
*However, the author quickly abandons the thesis and agrees just to recount some loosely related stories about historical China
*The jumble of stories isn't coherent, and I question whether I learned something or was just amused
*The drawback to this approach is that the book feels more like narrow anecdotes rather than the big picture
*I wish the book had more balance between micro and macro perspectives
*This book begins with some vague thesis about China deriving its self-identity, including the idea of being a "Great State," from Mongolian rule
*However, the author quickly abandons the thesis and agrees just to recount some loosely related stories about historical China
*The jumble of stories isn't coherent, and I question whether I learned something or was just amused
November 20, 2023
Great State: China and the World is slightly similar to Vermeer's Hat: The Seventeenth Century and the Dawn of the Global World, a collection of essays around a theme chosen by Timothy Brook. And the similarity between the two books also means that the title is misleading because the actual content isn’t about China’s political history or its foreign relations towards other nations as a great state but rather, it’s about interesting individuals’ life (mainly European) whose life—either happenstance or by personal mission—revolved around China. After reading a few works by Timothy Brook (Vermeer's Hat: The Seventeenth Century and the Dawn of the Global World, Mr. Selden's Map of China: Decoding the Secrets of a Vanished Cartographer, The Troubled Empire: China in the Yuan and Ming Dynasties), I began to see a pattern here, that all his books have this particular style: choosing a theme (the setting is always in China whether it’s during climate change or globalization) then describing the life of individuals in that particular era.
The book is interesting but it’s not my cup of tea. I think Brook’s fascinating individual life essay seems to be more suitable in National Geographic or any other History magazine. Despite that, there are some chapters that I really enjoy reading such as the Inner Asia crisis among the Khoshut Khanate, Dzungar, Tibet, and the Manchu Qing. On a whole, the book is a breeze to read through but I probably will read other historical works whose titles match the actual content.
The book is interesting but it’s not my cup of tea. I think Brook’s fascinating individual life essay seems to be more suitable in National Geographic or any other History magazine. Despite that, there are some chapters that I really enjoy reading such as the Inner Asia crisis among the Khoshut Khanate, Dzungar, Tibet, and the Manchu Qing. On a whole, the book is a breeze to read through but I probably will read other historical works whose titles match the actual content.
May 13, 2022
“Тэнгэр газрын заагт ялгаа бий. Дотор талд хятадууд (hua) гадна талд өөр хүмүүс (yi буюу бүдүүлгүүд, харийнхан) бий. Эмх цэгц, дэг журмыг энэ ертөнцөд хадгалах арга нь энэхүү зааг хязгаарыг хүндлэх юм.”
Энэхүү ном нь хятадын гадаад ертөнцтэй харилцах харилцаа, хоорондын хамаарал, хятад улсад дэлхий яагаад хэрэгтэй, дэлхий дахинд яагаад хятад хэрэгтэй хийгээд хятадын дотогшоо чиглэсэн бодлого юунаас улбаалан гадагшаа чиглэсэн ИХ УЛС-ын хандлагатай болсон талаар харуулсан маш сайн судалгаа шинжилгээн дээр тулгуурлагдан бүтсэн аж. Зохиолч уг бүтээлээрээ бүх хятадын түүхийг туурвихыг оролдоогүй ба монголчуудын эзлэн түрэмгийллээс орчин үеийн хятад хүртэлх хятад газар болсон үйл явдал, түүхэн хэлхээг үзүүлжээ. Одоогийн бидний дэлхийд хоёр хятад зэрэгцэн оршиж буй бөгөөд тэр хоёрын санал нэгддэг ганц үзэл нь Нэг-Хятад гэх үзэл аж. Дээрх үзэл шинэ зүйл биш ба эртний хятадаас авч хэлэлцдэг байсан ч хойд зүгээс ирсэн нум сум агсагч нүүдэлчдийн ташуурын доор бүх хятад нэгдэх хүртэл хоосон зэрэглээ, мөрөөдөл төдийхөн байжээ. “Да Юань” (ИХ ЮАНЬ УЛС)-ын буюу монголчуудын дарлалаас хятадууд ангижирч чадсан ч монголчуудын үлдээсэн ул мөр арилахын аргагүй байсан ба энэ нь цаашдын хятадын төр улсын бодлого, амбицийг өөрсдийнх нь ч анзаараагүйгээр эргэлт буцалтгүй өөрчилсөн байв.
Энэхүү ном нь хятадын гадаад ертөнцтэй харилцах харилцаа, хоорондын хамаарал, хятад улсад дэлхий яагаад хэрэгтэй, дэлхий дахинд яагаад хятад хэрэгтэй хийгээд хятадын дотогшоо чиглэсэн бодлого юунаас улбаалан гадагшаа чиглэсэн ИХ УЛС-ын хандлагатай болсон талаар харуулсан маш сайн судалгаа шинжилгээн дээр тулгуурлагдан бүтсэн аж. Зохиолч уг бүтээлээрээ бүх хятадын түүхийг туурвихыг оролдоогүй ба монголчуудын эзлэн түрэмгийллээс орчин үеийн хятад хүртэлх хятад газар болсон үйл явдал, түүхэн хэлхээг үзүүлжээ. Одоогийн бидний дэлхийд хоёр хятад зэрэгцэн оршиж буй бөгөөд тэр хоёрын санал нэгддэг ганц үзэл нь Нэг-Хятад гэх үзэл аж. Дээрх үзэл шинэ зүйл биш ба эртний хятадаас авч хэлэлцдэг байсан ч хойд зүгээс ирсэн нум сум агсагч нүүдэлчдийн ташуурын доор бүх хятад нэгдэх хүртэл хоосон зэрэглээ, мөрөөдөл төдийхөн байжээ. “Да Юань” (ИХ ЮАНЬ УЛС)-ын буюу монголчуудын дарлалаас хятадууд ангижирч чадсан ч монголчуудын үлдээсэн ул мөр арилахын аргагүй байсан ба энэ нь цаашдын хятадын төр улсын бодлого, амбицийг өөрсдийнх нь ч анзаараагүйгээр эргэлт буцалтгүй өөрчилсөн байв.
May 10, 2020
When I chose to read this book it was primarily to fill in huge gaps in my knowledge of medieval and contemporary China. As a non-expert, merely seeking to understand the world a bit better, I found Timothy Brook's narrative style easy to follow and the book perfectly pitched to individuals seeking to learn about the Great State. Like other reviewers, I too at times became more absorbed in the individual stories that Brook uses and was somewhat lost as to how it tied into the greater hypothesis of Great State behaviours. Nevertheless, the book is informative and I was particularly impressed by Brook's epilogue. Understanding modern-day China is certainly enhanced by reflecting on its past. Of course, in light of the COVID-19 pandemic, I would love to hear Timothy Brook's thoughts on how these events will (re-)shape the world as we know it. The importance of the book is not diminished despite being published just before this current global pandemic.
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December 30, 2020The history of China is so long that it would be impossible to capture in a single volume. Wisely, Timothy Brook’s Great State pulls several lesser known tales from Chinese history (confined between 1280-2010) and uses them to extrapolate an arc of China’s evolving place in the world. Brook’s stories typically focus on individuals who are not Chinese – from Matteo Ricci to a relatively-anonymous Danish mine worker, to the Dalai Lama. Brook uses these deeply researched portraits to illuminate China’s evolving international policies even as the nation itself grew and changed internally. Working against Western assumptions of isolationism, he persuasively argues that China has always played an integral role in global affairs. This relatively compact collection nonetheless provides a sweeping picture of how China has shaped and in turn, been shaped by war, diplomacy, colonialism, and trade.
January 11, 2021
Rather than seeking to detail out an entire ice floe, Tim extracts beautifully written ice cores that help use almost parable like tales detail out the contexts upon which they took place.
A fantastically unique way of conveying National history, Tim Brooks utilises key stories across centuries of China’s history to provide a lens into what steered China into the form it takes today as well as the way it interacts with nation states around it.
Coupled with key imagery that help to visualise each of these tales, I found myself understanding and memorising far more about China’s history than I’ve done from other, more detailed books. Most valuably, I’ve also been able to compile a list of topics I want to explore in more detail thanks to this book.
Although I would’ve liked perhaps a few more chapters around a few key periods, beggars can’t be choosers with books with the direct this one had in mind. A worthwhile read for sure.
A fantastically unique way of conveying National history, Tim Brooks utilises key stories across centuries of China’s history to provide a lens into what steered China into the form it takes today as well as the way it interacts with nation states around it.
Coupled with key imagery that help to visualise each of these tales, I found myself understanding and memorising far more about China’s history than I’ve done from other, more detailed books. Most valuably, I’ve also been able to compile a list of topics I want to explore in more detail thanks to this book.
Although I would’ve liked perhaps a few more chapters around a few key periods, beggars can’t be choosers with books with the direct this one had in mind. A worthwhile read for sure.
May 6, 2023
J'ai mis du temps à lire ce livre pas parce qu'il était compliqué (même si mon manque de connaissance du "Moyen-Âge" en Asie a pu jouer) ou parce qu'il n'était pas bien, mais juste de par sa structure : 13 chapitres non liés entre eux, qui ne se passent pas à la même période, dont le point de départ sont toujours des anecdotes ou des personnes, mais qui ont pour point commun la Chine et sa relation avec l'étranger. Il est donc très facile de lire un ou deux chapitres, de poser le livre pour faire autre chose et d'y revenir quelques mois plus tard.
Chaque histoire part d'un point fixe : un meurtre, une peinture, une stèle que l'auteur décrit, explique et contextualise. Cela ne donne pas lieu à une synthèse ou même une thèse, mais c'est plus un prétexte pour étudier les liens entre la Chine et l'étranger, à différents moments - immédiat ou plus lointain : les invasions, le rapport à l'autre, la colonisation... La contextualisation donne tout son intérêt à l'ouvrage.
Le choix des histoires n'est pas non plus pris au "hasard", dans le sens où elles reprennent des points "nodaux", du point de vue européen en tout cas, de l'histoire de la Chine (les débats de la fermeture du pays à l'époque moderne, le Tibet, la colonisation...).
Chaque histoire part d'un point fixe : un meurtre, une peinture, une stèle que l'auteur décrit, explique et contextualise. Cela ne donne pas lieu à une synthèse ou même une thèse, mais c'est plus un prétexte pour étudier les liens entre la Chine et l'étranger, à différents moments - immédiat ou plus lointain : les invasions, le rapport à l'autre, la colonisation... La contextualisation donne tout son intérêt à l'ouvrage.
Le choix des histoires n'est pas non plus pris au "hasard", dans le sens où elles reprennent des points "nodaux", du point de vue européen en tout cas, de l'histoire de la Chine (les débats de la fermeture du pays à l'époque moderne, le Tibet, la colonisation...).
February 16, 2020
A comprehensive overview of just some of the facets of Chinese history, I won’t deny that this book is well-researched and comprehensively put together. There’s a great sense of atmosphere in it, but there is also a massive void in terms of the knowledge and the cultural overview. The chapter on the People’s Republic is spectacularly short, and I was somewhat disappointed by the sheer lack of detail in some of the areas. There was also the issue that this didn’t seem to focus on a micro or macro cosm of the country, but instead was more a middle ground, which left me feeling like personal narratives had been neglected and that the full country’s history had also been overlooked. A decent book, but not stellar, and a bit of a let down in some aspects,
April 15, 2023
Historical Reading
This book is of course a good summary of China and charts its course through history that led it in some way to what it is today. However, this book's audience is intended for a more public read. Dr. Brook pivots every chapter as a mini story to help guide the reader along events, but I feel his thesis gets lost in the stories and his initial focus on what makes the Chinese Great State, with a focus on the Chinese internal view, gets obscured and side tracked at later points in the publication. Still a good book, and a good introduction, but I hoped for a more historical approach. That all being said, Dr. Brook as usual makes excellent use of various sources and primary accounts.
This book is of course a good summary of China and charts its course through history that led it in some way to what it is today. However, this book's audience is intended for a more public read. Dr. Brook pivots every chapter as a mini story to help guide the reader along events, but I feel his thesis gets lost in the stories and his initial focus on what makes the Chinese Great State, with a focus on the Chinese internal view, gets obscured and side tracked at later points in the publication. Still a good book, and a good introduction, but I hoped for a more historical approach. That all being said, Dr. Brook as usual makes excellent use of various sources and primary accounts.
June 10, 2023
Importante note on this feedback:
I only read the first 60 Pages that were about the Yuan Dinasty, so my review is only about the first Chapter. But I would argue that it is very worth reading the entire book as I will after i finished more important books atm. The introduction, images and content is very nice, I'm certain that the rest of the chapters are worth the read if you want to learn more about the Chinese History from Yuan - Ming - Qing and Republic.
Remember that the focus of this book is to draw a parallel between China and the world, that is why the book starts in the Yuan Dinasty and not before. According to the author, this connection between two distant worlds starts when Marco Polo arrives in China, and imo it is a very rational statement.
I only read the first 60 Pages that were about the Yuan Dinasty, so my review is only about the first Chapter. But I would argue that it is very worth reading the entire book as I will after i finished more important books atm. The introduction, images and content is very nice, I'm certain that the rest of the chapters are worth the read if you want to learn more about the Chinese History from Yuan - Ming - Qing and Republic.
Remember that the focus of this book is to draw a parallel between China and the world, that is why the book starts in the Yuan Dinasty and not before. According to the author, this connection between two distant worlds starts when Marco Polo arrives in China, and imo it is a very rational statement.
August 28, 2023
This book is a really interesting history of China's relationship with the world. It is knowledgeable and well-written. However, while I conceptually liked that this book actually had a reason for including the images and anchored each chapter in a specific item the later chapters are in some instances less tightly tied to the chapter than some of them, which is a shame because I had enjoyed the in-depth analysis in earlier chapters. The later chapters are also somewhat harder to follow because the chronological gaps are much more significant. The chapter about post-war China feels very disjointed from the other chapters.
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