Conversations with RBG: Ruth Bader Ginsburg on Life, Love, Liberty, and Law

by Jeffrey Rosen

In her own words, Ruth Bader Ginsburg offers an intimate look at her life and career, through an extraordinary series of conversations with the head of the National Constitution Center.

This remarkable book presents a unique portrait of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, drawing on more than twenty years of conversations with Jeffrey Rosen, starting in the 1990s and continuing through the Trump era. Rosen, a veteran legal journalist, scholar, and president of the National Constitution Center, shares with us the justice's observations on a variety of topics, and her intellect, compassion, sense of humor, and humanity shine through. The affection they have for each other as friends is apparent in their banter and in their shared love for the Constitution--and for opera.

In Conversations with RBG, Justice Ginsburg discusses the future of Roe v. Wade, her favorite dissents, the cases she would most like to see overruled, the #MeToo movement, how to be a good listener, how to lead a productive and compassionate life, and of course the future of the Supreme Court itself. These frank exchanges illuminate the steely determination, self-mastery, and wit that have inspired Americans of all ages to embrace the woman known to all as "Notorious RBG."

Whatever the topic, Justice Ginsburg always has something interesting--and often surprising--to say. And while few of us will ever have the opportunity to chat with her face-to-face, Jeffrey Rosen brings us by her side as never before. Conversations with RBG is a deeply felt portrait of an American hero.

Genres: Nonfiction, Biography, History, Politics, Law, Feminism, Audiobook

272 pages, Hardcover

First published November 5, 2019

Reviews

[Barbara · Rating 4 out of 5]

Ruth Bader Ginsberg

The book's author, Jeffrey Rosen, is an American scholar and law professor who's been called "the nation's most widely read and influential legal commentator."


Jeffrey Rosen

Rosen first met Ruth Bader Ginsberg in an elevator in 1991, when he was a law clerk and she was a judge on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia. Not knowing what to say, Rosen blurted out a question about what opera Ginsburg had seen recently, and they immediately bonded over their mutual love of opera.

Afterwards, when Rosen became the legal affairs editor of the New Republic - writing about the law and the Supreme Court - he and Ginsburg began corresponding about articles he'd written and operas she'd seen. Rosen and Ginsburg have been exchanging letters, talking, and occasionally attending operas together ever since.

Rosen interviewed Ginsburg many times, and draws from those talks for this book.

Rosen notes that Ginsburg's approach to cases "didn't focus on abstract principles; they always focused on the real world challenges faced by individual men and women trying to define their life paths."


Young Ruth Bader Ginsburg

As general counsel of the American Civil Liberties Union's Women's Rights Project from 1972 to 1980, Ginsburg's mission was to convince the Supreme Court "that legislation apparently designed to benefit or protect women could often have the opposite effect."

Ginsburg observed, "There wasn't a great understanding of gender discrimination. People knew that race discrimination was an odious thing, but there were many who thought that all the gender-based differentials in the law operated benignly in women's favor. So my objective was to take the Court step by step to the realization that the pedestal on which some thought women were standing all too often turned out to be a cage."

To convince the Supreme Court, Ginsburg took the case of a man, which might resonate with the nine male justices. In 1975 Ginsburg represented Stephen Wiesenfeld, a computer consultant whose wife - a teacher - died during childbirth. Wiesenfeld applied for his wife's Social Security benefits, so he could work part-time and stay home with the baby. However, the law only permitted widows - not widowers - to collect special benefits, and Wiesenfeld's application was denied.

When Ginsburg took Wiesenfeld's case to the Supreme Court she won, and the case set an example for the equal treatment of men and women.

Ginsburg often discussed cases from "the bad old days", when the Court repeatedly upheld distinctions based on sex. For example, in 1961 a woman named Gwendolyn Hoyt killed her abusive husband, and was convicted of murder by an all-male jury. At that time, women were either not called for jury duty, or excused if they requested it, just because they were female.

In an appeal, Hoyt's lawyer challenged the gender-based exclusion of women from the jury pool. She held that the inability to have a jury that included females - who might have argued for manslaughter rather than murder - deprived Hoyt of her rights. Hoyt lost the case. However, a fire was lit under Ginsburg and - due to her efforts - the 'opt-out' policy for women serving on juries was ruled unconstitutional in the late 1970s.

Ginsburg's policy for chiseling away at gender discrimination continued after she was sworn in as a Supreme Court justice on August 10, 1993.


Ruth Bader Ginsburg being sworn in as a Supreme Court justice

Rosen notes, "every one of the cases she chipped away at involved a law based on the premise that men earned the money and women tended to the home and children" - legislation that Ginsburg thought was unfair.

As evidence of Ginsburg's leanings, Rosen mentions seeing a photograph in her chambers of the justice's son-in-law gazing at his child (Ginsburg's grandson). Ginsburg told Rosen 'this is my dream for the future.' At first Rosen took it to mean something about the joys of grandchildren. He later came to realize that Ginsburg was referring to the transformation of sex roles, that fathers and mothers take equal responsibility for children.

Ginsburg always insisted that "men and women would be truly equal only when they take equal responsibility for child rearing." This was a policy followed by Ruth and her husband Martin Ginsburg, a brilliant attorney specializing in tax law.


Young Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Martin Ginsburg


Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Martin Ginsburg with their daughter

In fact Ginsburg's very first hire on the Supreme Court was a male law clerk whose application said he was studying law at night because his wife - an economist - had a good job at the World Bank and he had to help take care of his two small children.

Rosen remarks, "By 1997 Ginsburg was seen as the new face of liberalism on the Supreme Court", and over the years "she has become one of the most inspiring American icons of our time and is now recognized as one of the most influential figures for constitutional change in American history."

Asked about her favorite cases on the Supreme Court, Ginsburg cites a 1996 case that struck down the Virginia Military Institute's all-male admissions policy. This marked the climax of challenges to single-sex public schools that she'd launched with her husband in the 1970s.


Ruth Bader Ginsberg and her husband Martin Ginsburg were loving lifelong partners

Ginsburg explains that the changing views of the Supreme Court over time follow changes in society. In her view, "justices should generally defer to other decision makers (Congress, state legislatures, state courts, constitutional amendments) and should be guided by 'measured motion' - meaning they should not leap too far ahead of public opinion." Shifts in society lead to evolving decisions about gender equality, civil rights, gay marriage, and so on.

Nevertheless, Ginsburg notes that there are times when the Court has to step ahead of the political branches - in the case of race discrimination, for instance. Ginsburg recalls, "Because there was little prospect of state legislatures dismantling segregation in the South, the Court had to step into the breach." The Court ultimately rejected Jim Crow legislation and killed the prospect of separate but equal.

In addition to the cases I've cited above, the book includes many of Ginsburg's views about other topics, including abortion legislation, pregnancy discrimination, civil liberties, unconscious bias, life-work balance, and the importance of dissenting opinions. According to Ginsburg, "the value of dissenting opinions is in persuading future generations to correct perceived injustice."

For example, in a 2014 5-to-4 vote, the Supreme Court upheld a law that allows Hobby Lobby to deny health care coverage for women's contraceptives because of the owners' religious beliefs. Ginsburg wrote a dissenting opinion because Hobby Lobby, a for-profit business, employs hundreds of women who don't share those religious beliefs.

In more recent interviews, Ginsburg talks about issues like the #MeToo movement. This crusade, in which women used newspapers, social media, and other platforms to demand respect, is an example of "how quickly social change can be produced by political activism from the ground up." Ginsburg hopes the #MeToo movement is here to stay, and that "it becomes as effective for the woman who works as a maid in a hotel as it is for Hollywood stars."


#MeToo took down some Hollywood bigwigs

Ginsburg observes that no further legislation is needed to ensure that women are respected in the workplace. She notes, "the laws are there, the laws are in place. It takes people to step forward and use them. Women have to say this is bad behavior. You should not engage in it, and I will not submit to it." Ginsburg goes on to say, "It's easier today because there are numbers to support women who say so. We no longer hear as often as we did in the past, 'She's making it up'."

Ginsburg also insists there should be due process for the accused. "The person who is accused has a right to defend herself or himself. Everyone deserves a fair hearing."

Asked about her advice to men in this new regime, Ginsburg says, "Just think how you would like the women in your family to be treated, particularly your daughters."

To the new generation of feminists who look to her as a role model, Ginsburg says, "Work for the things that you care about. Don't take no for an answer. If you have a dream, something you want to pursue, and you're willing to do the work that's necessary to make the dream come true, don't let anyone tell you, you can't do it. And you have, nowadays, many like-minded people who can join with you in opposing unfair treatment, treatment of you as less than a full citizen."



As for Ginsburg's hopes for the future, she'd like to see campaign finance reform.



On a personal level, Ginsburg talks about her friendship with Justices Sandra Day O'Connor and Antonin Scalia, and her great fondness for Chief Justice William Rehnquist, who she served with for her first 12 years on the court.


Justice Sandra Day O'Connor


Justice Antonin Scalia


Chief Justice William Rehnquist

Ginsburg and Scalia were philosophical opposites. In fact, Ginsburg led the Court's liberal wing while Scalia led the Court's conservative wing (until his death in 2016). Despite their differences, Ginsburg and Scalia were close friends. When they disagreed about cases, "they did so with relative equanimity because of the strength of their friendship, sustained by gourmet meals cooked by Marty Ginsberg and culminating in an annual New Year's Eve dinner at the Ginsburgs' home that often involved singing together around the piano."

An amusing offshoot of the Ginsburg-Scalia friendship is a comic opera called Scalia/Ginsburg written by Derrick Wang - a writer, librettist, and composer who attended the University of Maryland law school.


Derrick Wang

The opera "celebrates the virtues of the court through an affectionate, comic look at the unofficial leaders of its conservative and liberal wings."






The Scalia/Ginsburg opera

Ginsburg is amazed at her transformation into a judicial celebrity, especially when she became an internet sensation and then an American icon. In 2013 Shana Knizhnik, an NYU law student, created the Tumblr blog 'Notorious R.B.G', and afterwards co-wrote a book called 'Notorious RBG: The Life and Times of Ruth Bader Ginsburg.'



Khizhnik was inspired by the justice "because Ginsburg defies stereotypes. She is a grandmother, but she shows so much strength, and she is who she is without apology." To add to her mystique, Ginsburg works out regularly with a trainer, whom she shares with Justice Elena Kagan.


Ruth Bader Ginsburg working out

Ginsburg's fame inspired all manner of RBG merchandise, especially sweatshirts and t-shirts.





On a light note, Ginsburg observed that Chief Justice Rehnquist added four gold stripes to each sleeve of his black robe in 1995. To explain the uptick in sartorial splendor, Rehnquist admitted "he did not wish to be upstaged by the women." (Justices O'Connor and Ginsburg always wore attractive neckpieces.)


Chief Justice Rehnquist added stripes to his robe

In his acknowledgements Rosen writes a moving tribute to his mother Estelle Rosen, and says about Ginsburg: "Justice Ginsberg is an inspiration on so many levels, including how to live a good life - a life of disciplined focus and self-mastery, dedicated to the welfare of others. Thanks to her efforts as a pathbreaking advocate, judge, and Supreme Court justice, she is a personal and constitutional hero."



Thanks to Netgalley, the author (Jeffrey Rosen), and the publisher (Henry Holt and Co.) for a copy of the book.

You can follow my reviews at https://reviewsbybarbsaffer.blogspot....

[Toni · Rating 4 out of 5]

An interesting introduction to work and life of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. I liked the way the author chose to let the reader discover the opinions and hopes of this remarkable woman through her cases and her own words.

Thank you to Edelweiss and Henry Holt Co. for the review copy provided in exchange for an honest opinion.

[Sarah-Hope · Rating 2 out of 5]

I'm going to open by saying I was disappointed by this book—but I'm hoping you'll keep reading this review and still consider it as a book you might enjoy.

The good news
• It's a delight to hear stories from Ruth Bader Ginsburg's life and career in her own words.
• The fact that this book is based on conversations makes the prose reader-friendly.
• The book offers a great introduction to the development of Ruth Bader Ginsburg's legal thinking over time.

The not so good news
• If you've followed Ruth Bader Ginsburg's career, you'll know most of the information included here—there are no great revelations.
• The book is composed of transcripts of multiple conversations, separated into individual thematic units, then recombined to create chapters with specific foci. This mostly works, but there's a fair bit of repetition. I would have appreciated a much firmer editorial hand.

Bottom line
If you're looking for an introduction to Ruth Bader Ginsburg, this is a great text that you'll enjoy reading. If you're a long-term fan of Ruth Bader Ginsburg, you're not likely to learn much that's new.

Note: I received a free electronic ARC of this title for review purposes. The opinions are my own.

[Moonkiszt · Rating 5 out of 5]

Ruth Bader Ginsberg IS a treasure to this country, and a personal hero of mine, and all the millions of other roles she plays in the lives of strangers she doesn't even know - that's a spectacular mantle to wear, and she does it with panache!

Conversations with RGB is a treat. Each is introduced with the background to place the conversation in context, and then the recorded session transcribed for readers now and forever to slide our benches close in, lean forward and listen, or eavesdrop maybe. I enjoyed this book, each section considering relevant topics dealt with in her years as a judge. I especially found it satisfying to see where she pinpointed authority in and from actual case cites, as a foundation for her positions and thinking.

There are tidbits about her time with the Supremes, but also her days coming up, jobs that shaped her, people and experiences that firmed her hunches, preferences and leanings into judicial wisdom. There are mentions given of her relationships, those who loved her and who she has loved by preserving, by keeping safe those valuable bonds for which one sacrifices every moment and effort: balancing, awobble, the tightrope of risk that is an entire life. Only she, RGB, has done it in public, with benefits to us that reach out to our work lives, home lives, love lives and our lives as citizens of a land in common.

Do I recommend it? 5 stars+. God Save the Queen? Sure. But first, please Save RGB, ok?

A sincere thanks to Jeffrey Rosen, Henry Holt & Company and NetGalley for providing me an e-ARC in exchange for an honest review.

[Stacey B · Rating 3 out of 5]

RBG..what an icon.
I perused this book again before writing a review, also having watched the interview with the author regarding his relationship with RBG and writing the book.
Truthfully, had I not read "In Her Own Words" among others written by RBG, I may have rated this book higher.
Rosen knew her well and had material, including what she gave him to write his book .
But I just don't feel he was able to translate as a wordsmith, if you will, the depth of RBG other role as a wife, mother, and friend.
What an awe-inspiring passion and the legacy she left.

[Donna Davis · Rating 5 out of 5]

This is the RBG book I’ve been waiting for. My huge thanks go to Net Galley and Henry Holt Publishers for the review copy. This book will be publicly available November 5, 2019.

Justice Ginsburg wants us to know that the sky is not falling. Though progressive thinkers see great cause for concern, primarily within the executive branch of the federal government, the U.S. Constitution hasn’t changed, and the Supreme Court, she insists, is made up entirely of strong legal minds that revere it. Precedents are still the basis of future rulings; the overturn of precedent is rare and unusual. But for activists—and she loves us—she also points out that public opinion is what alters the course of the law. Congress makes laws based on what their constituency desires. So she isn’t suggesting we put away our pussy hats and our picket signs; she just wants us to know that our advocacy works, and she appreciates everything we do to further women’s rights, civil rights, and gay rights.

Twice previously I read other books about RBG; one is a popular biography that I enjoyed, but that didn’t go deeply enough into Ginsburg’s legal ideas, and the second is just dross, minutiae gathered from her high school year book and whatnot. Whereas part of me just wants her to write an autobiography, I have to recognize that she is very elderly, has faced health challenges lately, and to stand a chance of writing any sort of memoir, she’d probably have to resign from the Court. And goodness knows, I want her to stay there, ideally forever. Instead, Rosen’s series of interviews with this feminist icon serves nicely.

Rosen has been friends with Justice Ginsberg for many years; they were drawn together initially through elevator discussions of opera. His chapters are brief but meaty, organized around key rulings and topical interviews. Rosen explains succinctly at the outset how this friendship formed and grew, but he doesn’t get windy or use the opportunity to aggrandize himself. He keeps the focus strictly on his subject. The interviews flow in an agreeable manner that is literate without being verbose or Byzantine.

We live in politically polarized times, and so even when I am reading about a political figure that I admire, I generally expect my blood pressure to rise a little, perhaps in passionate agreement. But if anyone in this nation has the long view of history and the key domestic issues that have unfolded, particularly with regard to the rights of women, it is RBG. And although I am not as senior a citizen as Justice Ginsburg, many of the changes she mentions that have occurred over the decades are ones that I can also attest to, though I hadn’t thought of them in years. For example, when I came of age in the 1970s, it was still not unusual to try to enter a bar or club only to be barred at the doorway because women weren’t allowed inside. (“Gentlemen only, Ma’am. Sorry.”) I had forgotten about these things; as her recollections unspool I see that she is right. Change happens, but lasting change happens slowly. We are getting there, at least with regard to women’s rights and gay rights. Issues of race and class are something else entirely, and she points up specific instances where justice has not progressed and change is imperative.

I could say more, but none of it would be as wise or as articulate as when Ginsburg says it. If you’ve read this far in my review, you should go ahead and order this excellent book now. I highly recommend it to all that are interested in social justice, both formal and informal.

[Brice Karickhoff · Rating 4 out of 5]

I read this book because I have recently realized how little I know about the internal workings of the Supreme Court, and this was the only available book on Libby related to the Supreme Court. The book rocked! The author had a close relationship with RBG and basically just published the transcripts of all these conversations he's had with with her.

General thoughts are that RBG was an incredible woman and stood for a lot of really cool things. I was especially impressed by some of her positions which I don't think are necessarily political, but seem incredibly principled and wise (ie. judicial minimalism). In addition to teaching me a lot of things I didn't know about RBG and the workings of the Supreme Court, this book also delved into the two RBG-related topics I had already read about: her stand on Roe and her relationship with Justice Scalia. Both suuuuper interesting.

I only subtract one star because of the way that both the book and RBG herself kind of descended into a more partisan mindset towards the end. However, I will say that this book probably convinced me that the Right is more to blame for the polarization of the court (as opposed to, say, the polarization of media, for which I think the Left is more to blame), but that is neither here nor there. Everyone's a little at fault for polarization and partisan politics, probably including you and me. Overall, RBG, unlike 95% of our leaders in the last 20 years, probably did more to unite us than divide us.

[Nancy · Rating 4 out of 5]

I admit my knowledge and understanding of the Supreme Court is barely adequate, based mostly on headline news and gleanings from my readings in history and biographies.

With some trepidation, I proceeded to read Conversations with RBG, worried it would be 'over my head.'

I was immediately pleased to find Jeffrey Rosen's book was informative, with a good sense of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg's personality and ideas about "life, love, liberty, and law," and yet accessible to a general reader like myself. Most of the cases discussed were quite well known, although in Rosen's chapter introductions there were references to cases outside of my knowledge.

Each chapter is a transcript of a conversation between Rosen and RBG that took place over time, focusing on one aspect of her life or career. The conversations consider landmark Supreme Court cases but also consider the present and future of the Court.

Rosen and RBG bonded over a shared love of opera. Classical music and opera are RBG's passion, bringing beauty, joy, and therapeutic escape into her workaholic life.

I appreciated learning about her early cases working with the American Civil Liberties Union and the Women's Rights Project.

RBG endeavored for laws that were neutral in regards to sex, so that men and women had the same, equal protections.

I think that men and women, shoulder to shoulder, will work together to make this a better world.~RBG quoted in Conversations with RBG

All the landmark cases are addressed from RBG's landmark cases to her dissenting votes. A very interesting chapter concerns RBG's meeting with Margaret Atwood. Also discussed is how RBG became a cultural icon, memorialized in opera and social media memes.

Rosen asked, "What's the worst ruling" the current Court has produced, and she answered Citizens United. "I think the notion that we have all the democracy that money can buy strays fo far from what our democracy is supposed to be."

I read in the newspaper today that Virginia passed the Equal Rights Amendment, which RBG had supported. Last night I had read about Rosen asking if the ERA might be revived in correlation with the 100th anniversary of the Nineteenth Amendment. RBG replied that because some states withdrew their ratification "it would be better to start over."

I appreciated RBG's philosophy of the court being "a reactive institution." She believes the Court should respect the legislative judgment of Congress.

RBG is hopeful, understanding that the American democratic experiment is an ever-evolving process.

"I am an originalist; I think we're constantly forming a more perfect Union, which is what the Founders intended. As bad as things may be, there are better than they once were. These are not the best of times, but think of how many bad time's I've experienced in my long lig.e Starting with the Second World War...then Senator Joe McCarthy...Then Vietnam. Somehow, we have gotten over the worst of times."~RBG in Conversations with RBG by Jeffrey Rosen

I won a free book from the publisher through LibraryThing. My review is fair and unbiased.

[Dinah Moore · Rating 5 out of 5]

I enjoyed this take on RBG’s life and work. Rosen did a great job composing this and I thought the questions he asked were very thoughtful. I really enjoyed hearing her opinions on the constitution, feminism, and race relations.

[⭐ Emerson ⭐]

$2.99 on Amazon today!
Regularly $14.99

[Bonny · Rating 4 out of 5]

I started Conversations with RBG after Ruth Bader Ginsburg's death and finished it the day after the nominee for her replacement was announced. I have mourned the loss of Justice Ginsburg and been appalled by the speed with which she is being replaced and the views of the person who will most likely replace her on the Supreme Court. But this educational book did provide me with much interesting information about Justice Ginsburg, her life, the Supreme Court, her decisions, and possibly (maybe naively) even a glimmer of hope for the future. When I read, I often take note of quotes from the book. This one provided many opportunities, and some of my favorite quotes follow.

She has been a tireless advocate for equality, one that we will miss terribly. "Ginsburg insisted that men and women would be truly equal when they took equal responsibility for child rearing."

I have feared that the Court will become divided along conservative and liberal lines, reflecting our society, but that may not be the case. "You know, the Court is not like a legislature; we don't vote a particular way because we would like that outcome. We have to account for everything we do by giving reasons for it."

One of my big concerns about the future court is the possibility of the overturn of Roe v Wade. Justice Ginsburg spoke to that. "In our country, where any woman of means, any woman who can afford to go to another state, will have access to abortion. The people who won't are poor people who can't travel, who can't take off days from work. And that's a sorry situation."(Emphasis is mine.)
"We have no crystal ball, but a second direct confrontation may be ahead. If so, the odds, I think, are in favor of it not being successful."

Not everything I took note of had to do with the Court. I'll close with my favorite quote here. "Well, I had a remarkable mother-in-law, Marty's mother. I was married in my husband's home. and just before the ceremony, my mother-in-law took me aside and said, "I'd like to tell you the secret of a happy marriage."
"I'll be glad to know what it is."
"She said, "Dear, in any good marriage it helps sometimes to be a little deaf." And that is advice I have applied not only to 56 years of marriage, but to this day in my current workplace. If an unkind word is said, you just tune out."

[Kersten Schubert · Rating 5 out of 5]

A great read to celebrate women’s history month and international women’s day. From a true trailblazer and pioneer for feminism and women’s right. Notorious RBG

[Judy · Rating 4 out of 5]

This was the second book about RBG I read in November for yet another reading group. It was a much quicker read. In a series of conversations, Jeffrey Rosen poses questions to Ms Ginsburg about life, love, liberty, and law. Her answers provided even more insight into the woman behind the image.

Jeffrey Rosen is President and CEO of the National Constitution Center. I have enjoyed many of his articles written for the Center's blog. He has been a friend of RBG since 1991 and it shows in their conversations.

They spoke about her landmark cases, her wonderful and happy marriage to Marty Ginsburg, her relationships with other Supreme Court Justices, and her carefully thought out plans for what she wished to accomplish on the Court.

Of course, my favorite chapter was "Margaret Atwood Meets RBG."

By the end of the book I felt I almost knew the woman personally. In the paperback edition I read, Rosen includes an afterword. It recounts his last conversation with the great woman, on December 17, 2019. So you get her own words, including her concerns for the future, just ten months before her death.

I wager that a full biography will appear eventually and I will probably read it. For now I have a fairly complete picture of this towering woman, her heart, her extraordinary intellect, and her unwavering courage.

[Katherine "Kj" Joslin · Rating 5 out of 5]

The way the data is formatted makes the chapters very repetitive but I love hearing all about RBG and her cases. I enjoyed it a ton.

[Deb · Rating 3 out of 5]

3 1/2 stars. Very interesting read about an INCREDIBLE, AMAZING, woman. Not coming from the USA, I found the book enlightening in to how the Supreme Court Justices fit into the law making decisions. RBG was so obviously passionate about making the law fair for both women and men and addressing issues for all of those that abide in the USA regardless of demographics and dedicated her whole life to doing just that. The style of the book was a very relaxed Q&A, which made complex cases easy to understand without being bogged down with too much detail. It also touched on her personal life and her passions, family and opera. It did at times feel a little repetitive, but as an introduction to RBG and the judicial system, it was a good read. Mid-way through reading this book the Supreme Court overturned Roe vs Wade. A landmark case during the time RBG was an Associate Supreme Court Justice, and something she was so passionate about. It was very sad and I kept thinking how RBG would feel if she was still alive today. The world needs so many more like Ruth, to champion a way forward to a better and brighter future. Rest in Peace RBG x

[Caroline S · Rating 5 out of 5]

I’ve looked up to RBG for years - watching her in interviews and reading tidbits about her life. But reading these one on one conversations displayed her in a new light for me. It was like this book gives a mini lesson in democracy we could all use right now, but makes you feel optimistic and hopeful for a better future she had hoped for. She was brilliant, poised, thoughtful, and so dedicated to her job on the Supreme Court that it brings me to tears reading about her. Her stance on equality, women’s rights, and overall justice is so inspiring. Will probably read this book again this year.

[Lauren Stoolfire · Rating 4 out of 5]

Conversations with RBG: Ruth Bader Ginsburg on Life, Love, Liberty, and Law by Jeffrey Rosen is a great introduction to the life and work of Ruth Bader Ginsburg. There isn't much in the way of new information included here, but the special part is that it includes interviews of her telling her story in her own words.

[Alice Riseley · Rating 4 out of 5]

4.5 ⭐

[Corina Murafa · Rating 5 out of 5]

An absolutely fascinating book about arguably the most inspiring woman of the last several decades. RBG’s ability to reinvent itself time and again and to wage any battle with so much ambition and calculation is admirable.

[Kailey Johnson · Rating 5 out of 5]

Such an amazing interview that takes you though so many topics in regards to both the Supreme Court and RBGs life. The Washington Post’s Julie Cohen described this as being a law student in the coolest seminar and she was not wrong! Would highly recommend.

[Katelyn Cross · Rating 5 out of 5]

Such an inspiring, well-spoken, and optimistic human being. This was a wonderful read that made me feel a little more hopeful about our country, though her absence is felt more now.

[Tzipora · Rating 2 out of 5]

I adore Ruth Bader Ginsburg and wanted to love this book. In fact, I thought I wanted to buy it but am glad I ended up getting access to it through Net Galley because I would’ve been upset to have spent my money on this. I think it would’ve been a nice coffee table type book of RBG interviews and quotes. Or it could’ve been a nice introduction to her, her gender discrimination cases, experiences on the Supreme Court, and thoughts and views. Unfortunately, this book is a bit of a mess that needed to be edited or co stricter much differently.

The author, a prominent legal scholar and journalist, ended up befriending Ginsburg back when he was a clerk on the US Court of Appeals and she was a judge there. They bonded over a love of opera and when she was nominated for the Supreme Court by President Clinton a few years later, Rosen was then writing for the New Republic and it was a piece by him that helped sway public and congressional opinion for RBG, both before her official nomination and during the congressional hearing to approve her nomination. So Rosen was in a very unique position to be writing this book. In fact, I’m positive he could’ve written an excellent book on RBG, but unfortunately this isn’t that.

I wonder if this book would’ve been better as a biography with the addition perhaps of some of Rosen’s personal experiences and interviews with her. Or the coffee table book idea I mentioned. Instead it’s kind of a mashup of both and that’s it’s greatest failing. Chapters are split up into themes such as Roe vs Wade, the #MeToo movement, famous dissents, cases Ruth would like overturned, etc. There are transcripts from several interviews Rosen had with Ruth and because of the way they’re organized by topic and that these are sections from more than one interview, things get repetitive. But worse still, before each interview section, Rosen writes an introduction explaining various things, the history, how the Supreme Court works, etc. In a way, I enjoyed this. It gives context to some of what comes up in the interview. The only problem is, this intro often ends up summarizing everything that comes after it in chapter. He repeatedly quoted or expounds on RBG’s views so a few minutes later when you’re reading the interview it’s a repeat of what you’ve just read but this time in Ruth’s own words. This bother me much more, I think, than seeing a few things get repeated from one chapter to the next (an issue other reviewers have called out as well). I could’ve handled some repetition in that sense. It’s also why I think the interview transcripts would’ve made a nice coffee table book to pick up and read parts of at different times. But to see things repeated on the same chapter or have the introduction to each chapter make the interviews almost pointless was frustrating.

I like the introductions and background info Rosen gives in each chapter though. I also like and enjoyed highlighting Ruth’s own words. But I feel these could’ve been integrated better, perhaps? Or this almost could’ve been two different books but does not work well as is.

I’ve also seen or read parts of these prominent interviews before as I’m sure other RBG fans have as well. This book might make a nice introduction for someone looking to know more about RBG but for longtime fans or more legally and politically minded folks, unfortunately there isn’t really anything new to learn here that I haven’t heard or seen covered elsewhere. I think the interview transcripts still would’ve made a nice addition to the collection of fans or people with an interest in US law and politics or the chapter intros could’ve been extended or worked through better to make a fantastic intro to RBG. I guess this book suffers from not knowing just what it wants to be. I’m kind of surprised it got published and unfortunately thing the combination of Ruth’s popularity and the author’s background is why. This could’ve been a nice gift book for the holidays for one or the other groups I mentioned above but I can’t really recommend it.

I’m still glad I got the chance to read it and value having a collection of Ruth’s own words by category (so perhaps as a reference type piece) but it could’ve been so much than what it ended up being.

[Rachel Noel · Rating 4 out of 5]

*Free copy for an honest review

Like many people, I only really started paying attention to politics in the past few years. I knew that Ruth Bader Ginsburg (RBG) was an important figure, but never really looked further into it. When she needed surgery and people were clamoring to offer their blood and organs, whatever she needed, I figured I should read up on her. Fortunately this book became available and I took the opportunity to educate myself. I'm very glad I did.

This is neither a full biography nor a full case list. This has biographical elements but focuses on major past cases and how they influence current cases. It's also a lot of RBG discussing her hopes for the future. Honestly, the fact that she still has hope for the future does wonders for my overall anxiety about the world. She has an amazing approach to equal gender rights that she modeled off Thurgood Marshall's approach to equal rights for minorities. Incremental, showing those in power how these rules hurt them, and genuinely going for equality.

At first I was surprised to find someone who had promoted equality was subject to scorn from feminist groups. I took every chapter, every interview question on that, as a lesson in reading past the headlines. I think that should be the message with almost every Supreme Court Justice. It's so very easy to get caught up in the headlines and following the rage. But in this day and age, we need to do ourselves a favor and read more, get the full story, and reserve our torches and pitchforks for the truly important things. She criticized Roe v Wade because it was, essentially, a legislation forced to walk around on stilts with no training. She was correct in predicting this would lead to all of the many, many, many challenges it has received since. This was quite the legislative history lesson for me. I'll never go back.

RBG is truly an interesting character and her relationship with the other Justices is a wonderful example for disagreeing without it coming to blows. I thoroughly enjoyed this read and will be picking up more books about the Justices. 4 hoots!

[Pat · Rating 4 out of 5]

Even though I’ve read several books about RBG, I still learned a lot from this book.
My favorite chapters were on marriage and on Roe. Throughout the book there were often cases for which I wish more context was provided. It seemed like the author’s detailed knowledge of the law kept him from recognizing that some of us would appreciate more details. Interestingly, RBG clearly knew how to be a teacher because she often provided the needed context with relevant anecdotes and metaphors. I also wish more of the interviews had dates associated with them because opinions often are based on the climate of the era.
In chapter 10, RBG states that she doesn’t think we’re in danger of court packing happening again. Ironically, her death and the efforts by Republicans to fast-track a replacement will likely result in a larger court.
She references “Hillbilly Elegy.” How the heck did she have the time and energy for reading a memoir?!
Near the end of the book, RBG comments on how much she loved seeing, “What the Constitution Means to Me.” That Broadway play is probably my all-time favorite production and it will be streaming on October 16th on Amazon.
Maria - Would you like me to pass this book on to you?

[Lisa Basile · Rating 4 out of 5]

My husband slipped this book into my Christmas stocking. It was a wonderful survey of Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s cases, those she argued before the Supreme Court as a young lawyer in the 1970s, and those she heard as a Supreme Court justice after she joined the court in 1993. Interspersed with the cases were personal details about her life as a law student, mother, wife, lawyer, and judge. She was truly an extraordinary person. May her memory be a blessing.

[Annie · Rating 4 out of 5]

RBG is a remarkable woman, and it's amazing to learn how much of an impact she had on furthering race and gender equality. The content and recorded conversations are organized into topical chapters. There are some repetition and references to law cases that needed more background to fully understand the impact of the ruling. It would also be useful to know all of the Supreme Court justices that served since the 1990s to better follow the shift in case rulings and RBG's influence on the court.

[Jackie · Rating 4 out of 5]

Ruth Bader Ginsberg has become a very popular figure in our culture in the past few years. This book by Jeffrey Rosen has information, background and, most importantly, interviews with RBG. Justice Ginsberg reveals herself as a brilliant, thoughtful, and amazing person. She shows herself to be worthy of all the attention.

[Harisa- EsquiredToRead · Rating 5 out of 5]

Really good and I would really recommend this one. Yes, it was a little repetitive but still an important and good read.

[Laurie · Rating 4 out of 5]

Icon of a woman. Interesting insights into the Supreme Court in the US. Did you know that despite having nine members, they sometimes sit with eight and if they have a 4:4 split, instead of requiring a decision, they just enforce the decision of the court below?

Fav quote from RBG herself:
"If you want your dreams to come true, you must be willing to put in the hard work it takes to make that possible. We live in a society where, with will, determination, and dedication, you can be whatever you have the talent to be. I would also advise that good citizens have obligations as well as rights, the obligation to help keep our democracy relevant. Young people should pursue something outside themselves, something they are passionate about: ending discrimination or keeping our planet safe, for example."

[Diane · Rating 5 out of 5]

I've read several books about RBG, but something about this one made it a favorite. Perhaps it was that the narrators and the conversations felt so personal, so intimate. Truly a must read listen for RBG fans.

The book features recorded conversations between the author and RBG over a period of nearly 30 years. Rosen, a legal scholar, journalist and President of the National Constitution Center, shared a love of opera with the RBG, that connection on an elevator, when Rosen was a law clerk, made for a long, lasting friendship between the two.

Each chapter is a recorded conversation: Landmark Cases, Marriage Between Equals, Bill of Rights and Equal Protection, Sisters in Law, Nino, The Two Chiefs and When a Dissent Sparked a Meme. The conversations never felt dry and may made me smile and one even made me laugh out loud. In one of the conversations about the #metoomovement , RBG shared an incident she experienced while in law school. A few of the stories I was already familiar with from my other readings but, I was still so thrilled to have listened to this one - it's less than 7 hours. The narrators: Peter Ganim and Suzanne Toren were great and I couldn't believe just how similar Toren's voice was to the late RBG. I felt like I was right there in the room with them.