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We Need To Talk About Race: Understanding the Black Experience in White Majority Churches
From the UK Church’s complicity in the transatlantic slave trade to the whitewashing of Christianity throughout history, the Church has a lot to answer for when it comes to race relations. Christianity has been dubbed the white man’s religion, yet the Bible speaks of an impartial God and shows us a diverse body of believers.
It’s time for the Church to start talking about race.
Ben Lindsay offers eye-opening insights into the black religious experience, challenging the status quo in white majority churches. Filled with examples from real-life stories, including his own, and insightful questions, this book offers a comprehensive analysis of race relations in the Church in the UK and shows us how we can work together to create a truly inclusive church community.
It’s time for the Church to start talking about race.
Ben Lindsay offers eye-opening insights into the black religious experience, challenging the status quo in white majority churches. Filled with examples from real-life stories, including his own, and insightful questions, this book offers a comprehensive analysis of race relations in the Church in the UK and shows us how we can work together to create a truly inclusive church community.
176 pages, Paperback
Published July 18, 2019
89 people are currently reading
526 people want to read
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 103 reviews
June 22, 2020
Why do I give everything four stars?.....
Anyway, on this occasion it’s mainly for what Ben Lindsay has done in addressing matters and raising awareness that very few Christians have seemed to have done (to my knowledge). I read this book to inform myself, as a result of the Black Lives Matter movement, and it helped me see how blind I have been to the frequency and extent that black people face racism and it’s prevalence in the church.
I really appreciated his discussions on history and social structures as it was something I knew little about. I read this by myself but found the questions valuable and liked that he asks ones that would be successful in starting a discussion.
He seems to make some assumptions about the beliefs of Christians reading the book that may make readers from varying denominations feel a little excluded (women in leadership and church structures for example). My ears pricked up at the Bible references and would have liked more and more examples from Jesus’s life if possible.
The book was informative and educational but I’m always thrilled when there’s a challenge at the end. You have learned this but what are you going to do now? How are you going to change based on what you know? He is very good at suggesting where change can be made.
Anyway, on this occasion it’s mainly for what Ben Lindsay has done in addressing matters and raising awareness that very few Christians have seemed to have done (to my knowledge). I read this book to inform myself, as a result of the Black Lives Matter movement, and it helped me see how blind I have been to the frequency and extent that black people face racism and it’s prevalence in the church.
I really appreciated his discussions on history and social structures as it was something I knew little about. I read this by myself but found the questions valuable and liked that he asks ones that would be successful in starting a discussion.
He seems to make some assumptions about the beliefs of Christians reading the book that may make readers from varying denominations feel a little excluded (women in leadership and church structures for example). My ears pricked up at the Bible references and would have liked more and more examples from Jesus’s life if possible.
The book was informative and educational but I’m always thrilled when there’s a challenge at the end. You have learned this but what are you going to do now? How are you going to change based on what you know? He is very good at suggesting where change can be made.
July 5, 2020
The main message of this book is brilliant and so necessary to read about- that those of us who are members and leaders of white majority churches need to be putting issues of the minority to the forefront of our thoughts and actions. It's genuinely sad that Christianity is seen as the white man's religion when the Bible is so clear on its radical inclusivity. What can we do to be showing our communities, and particularly black communities, that there is not only a place for them, but a place for them to be leading?
I really benefited from the main discussions in this book but agree with others that you can get a little lost with some more contro and secondary truths being advocated.
I'll wrap this up with one of my favourites quotes from the book:
'It is essential that the Church runs to those in need and not just develop plans with the expectation that people will run to it.'
Come on Church!
I really benefited from the main discussions in this book but agree with others that you can get a little lost with some more contro and secondary truths being advocated.
I'll wrap this up with one of my favourites quotes from the book:
'It is essential that the Church runs to those in need and not just develop plans with the expectation that people will run to it.'
Come on Church!
May 12, 2020
A prophetic call for the church to demonstrate the ethnic unity of the people of God to be worked out in life together. Ben Lindsay persuasively calls white majority churches to recognise the additional challenges that black people face, as well as their own white privilege (blinding them to some of these challenges). His book has helped me reflect afresh on my own friendships and ministry practice.
I'd have rated the book with five stars but for concerns about some of those Lindsay positively and uncritically references (non-evangelical and secular) whose understanding of race and ethnicity flows out of a worldview hostile to biblical Christianity.
I'd have rated the book with five stars but for concerns about some of those Lindsay positively and uncritically references (non-evangelical and secular) whose understanding of race and ethnicity flows out of a worldview hostile to biblical Christianity.
September 23, 2020
“Being black in a white-majority church can be a bit like the first day of a new school on repeat.”
Super helpful thing for white Christians to hear! We cannot be satisfied until our churches are reflecting the rich diversity of humanity and it’ll take plenty of discomfort to get there but it’ll be worth it!
Conclusion was the best bit!
Super helpful thing for white Christians to hear! We cannot be satisfied until our churches are reflecting the rich diversity of humanity and it’ll take plenty of discomfort to get there but it’ll be worth it!
Conclusion was the best bit!
August 19, 2020
There are lots of books on anti racism, several of which deal with the intersection of race and faith, but most of them at US-centric, which is great but racism seems to look a bit different in the UK. So the fact that this book exists to address race and faith in a UK context is excellent.
It's not a perfect book (I was surprised to see a series of tweets referenced, for example) but it will start conversations, raise awareness, and provoke change in individuals which is the main point. I found the reflective questions at the ends of chapters helpful, and these could be useful if studying the book in a group to provoke discussion. The book has given me a number of other sources to look into, and I loved the interludes giving women a voice as well as Lindsay is aware there are extra pressures facing Black and Brown women.
I hope this starts not only other books from British Christian thinkers about race but helps the UK church to stand up and do the reconciliation, restoration, and social justice work we are called to do.
It's not a perfect book (I was surprised to see a series of tweets referenced, for example) but it will start conversations, raise awareness, and provoke change in individuals which is the main point. I found the reflective questions at the ends of chapters helpful, and these could be useful if studying the book in a group to provoke discussion. The book has given me a number of other sources to look into, and I loved the interludes giving women a voice as well as Lindsay is aware there are extra pressures facing Black and Brown women.
I hope this starts not only other books from British Christian thinkers about race but helps the UK church to stand up and do the reconciliation, restoration, and social justice work we are called to do.
January 13, 2024
amazing book ! i've not seen a book that so specifically speaks of the topic i as it relates to uk churches but is so important as the narrative often seems to be dominated by us dynamics which do differ. but such an encouraging call to action.
January 8, 2022
This is a challenging clarion call to confront racism in the UK church.
Read
July 29, 2021It's a must-read for everyone, especially Christians!
July 31, 2019
The biggest value of this book is that it tackles an issue that is too often neglected. Discussing black minorities in the UK and in the Church, Ben Lindsay highlights what is important for those involved in church, but also for anybody else who wants to tackle racism. Through questions at the end of each chapter, directed towards persons of colour, white church leaders, white church members and those just looking in, Ben includes all parties involved and gives practical directions. Ben is not afraid to ask the difficult questions, but does this in a way that nobody will be left feeling attacked or misunderstood. I learned a lot by reading this book and I can recommend i to everybody, but especially to Christians!
November 17, 2019
Very disappointed. I might be biased as very early on in the book he misunderstands and misrepresents an article my dad wrote so I was negatively biased the rest of the book.
Some things were helpful, but he’s bought into the worldly definitions of justice and equality. The fact he blindly supports and endorses Reni Eddo-Lodge’s book is concerning from a Christian. Her book should be analyzed through a Christian worldview but sadly many don’t really think about Christian worldview.
Some things were helpful, but he’s bought into the worldly definitions of justice and equality. The fact he blindly supports and endorses Reni Eddo-Lodge’s book is concerning from a Christian. Her book should be analyzed through a Christian worldview but sadly many don’t really think about Christian worldview.
June 4, 2020
Recommended book. I will first share the main insights I gleaned from the book to give you an idea of the content. Then I will share my personal thoughts at the end
Key insights that stood out to me:
Every culture and race do not all start from the same position. More black people are in poverty and structural racism blocks ethnic minorities from flourishing.
The national media does not help. It's important to understand the misconceptions and harmful stereotypes.
There can be secondary trauma from all the black murders seen on TV. If one member suffers, we all suffer. So where is the empathy from Christians?
History tells us that until the majority culture engages with the minority culture, structural injustices remain. Silence will be interpreted as silence or collusion, sitting on the fence is not an option. If you don't admit a problem, there can't be a solution.
"Racism doesn't have to be blatant to be dispiriting, and it doesn't have to be intentional to be real."
There is a huge difference between a church being diverse and being inclusive. There can be in churches a strange colour blind mentality because God values us all equally. Yet we shouldn't ignore our individual differences and the realities and challenges of POC (People of Colour). Colour consciousness give license to explore different cultures and true representation of God diversity. Revelations 7:9 is the goal we should work towards. Diversity without inclusivity can isolate the marginalised, lead to integration fatigue and stunt spiritual growth of black members. Integration is also different from assimilation, we shouldn't want everyone to just become the same. 'Othering' can be an issue too where minority people are made to feel different and left out.
Biblical Christianity can take the identity of any culture, there is no Christian monoculture, differences should not be ignored. If you are white, listen and don't be scared to ask and talk about race. Leaders set the culture.
The church was also complicit with modern slavery. Effects can still be felt and there is a collective responsibility for past wrongs. There can still be body politics where black people are judged as more body than mind, a legacy of slavery. There is a Christian tension between individual accountability so people are not responsible for past wrongs, and the obligation to pursue justice.
There is a whitewashing of history, in church and society. Race is a social construct. The Bible focuses on ethnic differences mainly as identifiers, not to encourage supremacy or bias. Black hermeneutics is important, Africa and black people are an important part of church history. We can't become what we can't see. Whiteness is not the norm, show accurate history.
Contextualisation is the challenge to present the truth of the gospel in a culturally relevant way. Christians need to read more broadly, listen to more varied voices and challenge overtly racist theology.
Do churches practice what they preach when they talk about wanting a multicultural church? People of different cultures, worship styles, traditions, all together. You can't want a multicultural church yet expect everyone to look white and worship in the same way. Embrace everyone. If you are a minority sometimes you can try change the way you worship to fit in and not stand out. Eventually, this can become too controlled or restrictive.
We are all made equal, yet can celebrate and acknowledge difference. Elevating our togetherness over differences can result in ignoring specific issues in a particular people group. Elevating our individuality over collective identity as Christians can result in tribalism and division.
Race may be a social construct, yet we live in a racialised society so should recognise the impact. Jesus will eventually bring harmony but we should not be passive or we fall short of Jesus's vision for the church.
When someone is racially abused people tend to leap immediately to reconciliation and forgiveness. Yet confession and repentance also need to happen: for denying racism and lack of effort to confront racial inequality. We need to continually understand our prejudices and seek to build relationships with a diverse range of people. Radical solidarity was apparent in Acts 6. The onus fell on the majority culture to make the situation right and the minority culture was given responsibility and authority. Jesus embraced those who were on the periphery and brought them to the centre. The early church was known for its radical love and unity.
Diversity is about bodies, inclusion is about culture. The Bible advocates church leadership that reflects the community it serves, like in Acts 13 Antioch. Does tokenism trump the deliberate and intentional development of black leaders in white spaces? Racial stereotypes in the media and church can be a problem.
Even when leaders, black people can struggle with imposter syndrome, the false belief you are not as good as everyone else. And integration fatigue, the social and psychological stress response to being a POC in a predominantly white environment.
The Guinness effect is where there is white majority leadership in black majority congregation.
Understanding bias is hard, our brains are hardwired to make decisions based on past experiences and current perceptions. Often in churches leadership development opportunity is based on relationship, not transparent recruitment policy. Opportunities should be open for black church leaders.
There is a difference between social welfare-caring for needs practically in the community, and social justice-campaign and advocacy addressing the structures that affected the community in the first place.
Is there a different emphasis on theology in churches between the races? In some white evangelical churches there can be an emphasis on personal conversion over community transformation and renewal. Christians are called to redeem entire cultures, not just individuals.
We cannot hope for mere intellectual salvation, hoping they will hear our speeches and come to Christ. Instead, we must enter communities physically and emotionally. We must enter their suffering and speak the gospel to their individual broken contexts. We cannot effectively serve broken people and bring them the gospel unless we know their brokenness.
Black people need to use their agency to speak up. And it's important to have a range of black voices as all are different. Joseph and Esther in the Bible had the ear of the majority culture, remembered their heritage and fought against injustice.
White allies are needed too. Yes all lives matter, but black people have historically (in the USA) not been seen as equal.
Don't try to open up this deep debate without knowing someone personally first. Go out your comfort zone and get to know different people. You are the majority culture and part of the power structure so you have to make to the effort. Are you a perpetrator, bystander or resister?
POC: seek out relationships with people who understand you for who you are. Not all white people are naive about racism and not all black people are woke. Have immersive spaces or sanctuaries where you can get rest and recharge. Don't let the battle for social justice take over your whole life. Cast your cares with Jesus. Power the fight with spiritual weapons, keep praying. Prayer changes hearts. We need the Holy Spirit and to become more like Jesus. No point having a loving attitude towards God but be hateful/indifferent to people made in his own image. If you are white, listen better to POC without having to immediately offer a solution or take things personally.
My personal thoughts:
Timely book indeed and some very helpful insights. Especially for white church leaders in areas that are multicultural. Much of what is written is basic for BAME (Black, Asain, Minority Ethnic) people but a great conversation starter. People do have prejudices that can be harmful and injustice has happened historically and can happen now.
However, some parts I didn't like and much terminology and phrases strayed into identity politics (which I'm beginning to witness can be a destructive ideology). Too much of an effort is sometimes made to separate people into their constituent groups. In many cases, the differences between individuals are bigger than the differences between groups. It is difficult to say blanket phrases like white privilege and, from experience, can start the conversation off on the wrong foot. Saying things like 'you are part of the power structure'. It can be difficult and unhelpful to say things like the UK church is structurally racist.
The oppressor/oppressed storyline focuses on victimhood and can accuse others of being oppressors simply due to how they were born, giving little hope for change. It seems we cannot separate the church from wider issues in society because the church belongs in society.
Yes people are treated differently due to race, but BME are still the minority so by definition, they will have less representation. People always portray Jesus in their image, I'm sure we'd see a black Jesus in Africa! We can't come to England and expect to find a robust theological representation of black people immediately. Plus there are confounding factors, black Caribbean boys get expelled more. Is it only because they are black, or could part of the problem be that they tend to be more from single-parent homes? Who could actually say what is a bigger cause? Are some of the ills only due to the colour of a person's skin or due to multiple reasons (albeit all need to be tackled?
Furthermore, can we really compare our society to Nazi Germany and Bonhoeffer's resistance? Stand up to injustice yes but recognise how well we are treated here (despite the long road ahead). I'd much rather be a POC in 2020 UK than 1939 Germany!
I also think that gender and race are different (but important) discussions. Race is a social construct and there is minimal difference between ethnicities except melanin pigment, it is mainly cultural differences. Gender, male and female, are shown to be different biologically, psychologically and other ways. Both important issues but different discussions.
I think another massive thing is class. Much of the UK church is middle class which can be a barrier for others. The book 'church for the poor' is a recommended read here.
I believe it all boils down to treat everyone with dignity, show love, and seek to understand people different to you. Be hospitable and welcoming, especially to anyone who is a minority as this can be harder for them: BME, disabled, age, single, single parent, working class. Whoever is a minority in your church!
I have experienced difficulty in the past (I am Asian with both parents converts from India, I grew up in Kenya and spent time in various UK cities) and can strongly relate to integration fatigue. Differences will always persist. Yet I can't help but think if more people were initially more welcoming, hospitable, taking a genuine interest in me and my culture, I would have felt much more welcome.
I believe a multicultural church is a kingdom mandate and is possible. Let us seek friendships different to us and listen well. Keep praying. Keep asking. Keep loving. A recommended book to start an important conversation.
I do indeed believe that we need to talk about race.
Key insights that stood out to me:
Every culture and race do not all start from the same position. More black people are in poverty and structural racism blocks ethnic minorities from flourishing.
The national media does not help. It's important to understand the misconceptions and harmful stereotypes.
There can be secondary trauma from all the black murders seen on TV. If one member suffers, we all suffer. So where is the empathy from Christians?
History tells us that until the majority culture engages with the minority culture, structural injustices remain. Silence will be interpreted as silence or collusion, sitting on the fence is not an option. If you don't admit a problem, there can't be a solution.
"Racism doesn't have to be blatant to be dispiriting, and it doesn't have to be intentional to be real."
There is a huge difference between a church being diverse and being inclusive. There can be in churches a strange colour blind mentality because God values us all equally. Yet we shouldn't ignore our individual differences and the realities and challenges of POC (People of Colour). Colour consciousness give license to explore different cultures and true representation of God diversity. Revelations 7:9 is the goal we should work towards. Diversity without inclusivity can isolate the marginalised, lead to integration fatigue and stunt spiritual growth of black members. Integration is also different from assimilation, we shouldn't want everyone to just become the same. 'Othering' can be an issue too where minority people are made to feel different and left out.
Biblical Christianity can take the identity of any culture, there is no Christian monoculture, differences should not be ignored. If you are white, listen and don't be scared to ask and talk about race. Leaders set the culture.
The church was also complicit with modern slavery. Effects can still be felt and there is a collective responsibility for past wrongs. There can still be body politics where black people are judged as more body than mind, a legacy of slavery. There is a Christian tension between individual accountability so people are not responsible for past wrongs, and the obligation to pursue justice.
There is a whitewashing of history, in church and society. Race is a social construct. The Bible focuses on ethnic differences mainly as identifiers, not to encourage supremacy or bias. Black hermeneutics is important, Africa and black people are an important part of church history. We can't become what we can't see. Whiteness is not the norm, show accurate history.
Contextualisation is the challenge to present the truth of the gospel in a culturally relevant way. Christians need to read more broadly, listen to more varied voices and challenge overtly racist theology.
Do churches practice what they preach when they talk about wanting a multicultural church? People of different cultures, worship styles, traditions, all together. You can't want a multicultural church yet expect everyone to look white and worship in the same way. Embrace everyone. If you are a minority sometimes you can try change the way you worship to fit in and not stand out. Eventually, this can become too controlled or restrictive.
We are all made equal, yet can celebrate and acknowledge difference. Elevating our togetherness over differences can result in ignoring specific issues in a particular people group. Elevating our individuality over collective identity as Christians can result in tribalism and division.
Race may be a social construct, yet we live in a racialised society so should recognise the impact. Jesus will eventually bring harmony but we should not be passive or we fall short of Jesus's vision for the church.
When someone is racially abused people tend to leap immediately to reconciliation and forgiveness. Yet confession and repentance also need to happen: for denying racism and lack of effort to confront racial inequality. We need to continually understand our prejudices and seek to build relationships with a diverse range of people. Radical solidarity was apparent in Acts 6. The onus fell on the majority culture to make the situation right and the minority culture was given responsibility and authority. Jesus embraced those who were on the periphery and brought them to the centre. The early church was known for its radical love and unity.
Diversity is about bodies, inclusion is about culture. The Bible advocates church leadership that reflects the community it serves, like in Acts 13 Antioch. Does tokenism trump the deliberate and intentional development of black leaders in white spaces? Racial stereotypes in the media and church can be a problem.
Even when leaders, black people can struggle with imposter syndrome, the false belief you are not as good as everyone else. And integration fatigue, the social and psychological stress response to being a POC in a predominantly white environment.
The Guinness effect is where there is white majority leadership in black majority congregation.
Understanding bias is hard, our brains are hardwired to make decisions based on past experiences and current perceptions. Often in churches leadership development opportunity is based on relationship, not transparent recruitment policy. Opportunities should be open for black church leaders.
There is a difference between social welfare-caring for needs practically in the community, and social justice-campaign and advocacy addressing the structures that affected the community in the first place.
Is there a different emphasis on theology in churches between the races? In some white evangelical churches there can be an emphasis on personal conversion over community transformation and renewal. Christians are called to redeem entire cultures, not just individuals.
We cannot hope for mere intellectual salvation, hoping they will hear our speeches and come to Christ. Instead, we must enter communities physically and emotionally. We must enter their suffering and speak the gospel to their individual broken contexts. We cannot effectively serve broken people and bring them the gospel unless we know their brokenness.
Black people need to use their agency to speak up. And it's important to have a range of black voices as all are different. Joseph and Esther in the Bible had the ear of the majority culture, remembered their heritage and fought against injustice.
White allies are needed too. Yes all lives matter, but black people have historically (in the USA) not been seen as equal.
Don't try to open up this deep debate without knowing someone personally first. Go out your comfort zone and get to know different people. You are the majority culture and part of the power structure so you have to make to the effort. Are you a perpetrator, bystander or resister?
POC: seek out relationships with people who understand you for who you are. Not all white people are naive about racism and not all black people are woke. Have immersive spaces or sanctuaries where you can get rest and recharge. Don't let the battle for social justice take over your whole life. Cast your cares with Jesus. Power the fight with spiritual weapons, keep praying. Prayer changes hearts. We need the Holy Spirit and to become more like Jesus. No point having a loving attitude towards God but be hateful/indifferent to people made in his own image. If you are white, listen better to POC without having to immediately offer a solution or take things personally.
My personal thoughts:
Timely book indeed and some very helpful insights. Especially for white church leaders in areas that are multicultural. Much of what is written is basic for BAME (Black, Asain, Minority Ethnic) people but a great conversation starter. People do have prejudices that can be harmful and injustice has happened historically and can happen now.
However, some parts I didn't like and much terminology and phrases strayed into identity politics (which I'm beginning to witness can be a destructive ideology). Too much of an effort is sometimes made to separate people into their constituent groups. In many cases, the differences between individuals are bigger than the differences between groups. It is difficult to say blanket phrases like white privilege and, from experience, can start the conversation off on the wrong foot. Saying things like 'you are part of the power structure'. It can be difficult and unhelpful to say things like the UK church is structurally racist.
The oppressor/oppressed storyline focuses on victimhood and can accuse others of being oppressors simply due to how they were born, giving little hope for change. It seems we cannot separate the church from wider issues in society because the church belongs in society.
Yes people are treated differently due to race, but BME are still the minority so by definition, they will have less representation. People always portray Jesus in their image, I'm sure we'd see a black Jesus in Africa! We can't come to England and expect to find a robust theological representation of black people immediately. Plus there are confounding factors, black Caribbean boys get expelled more. Is it only because they are black, or could part of the problem be that they tend to be more from single-parent homes? Who could actually say what is a bigger cause? Are some of the ills only due to the colour of a person's skin or due to multiple reasons (albeit all need to be tackled?
Furthermore, can we really compare our society to Nazi Germany and Bonhoeffer's resistance? Stand up to injustice yes but recognise how well we are treated here (despite the long road ahead). I'd much rather be a POC in 2020 UK than 1939 Germany!
I also think that gender and race are different (but important) discussions. Race is a social construct and there is minimal difference between ethnicities except melanin pigment, it is mainly cultural differences. Gender, male and female, are shown to be different biologically, psychologically and other ways. Both important issues but different discussions.
I think another massive thing is class. Much of the UK church is middle class which can be a barrier for others. The book 'church for the poor' is a recommended read here.
I believe it all boils down to treat everyone with dignity, show love, and seek to understand people different to you. Be hospitable and welcoming, especially to anyone who is a minority as this can be harder for them: BME, disabled, age, single, single parent, working class. Whoever is a minority in your church!
I have experienced difficulty in the past (I am Asian with both parents converts from India, I grew up in Kenya and spent time in various UK cities) and can strongly relate to integration fatigue. Differences will always persist. Yet I can't help but think if more people were initially more welcoming, hospitable, taking a genuine interest in me and my culture, I would have felt much more welcome.
I believe a multicultural church is a kingdom mandate and is possible. Let us seek friendships different to us and listen well. Keep praying. Keep asking. Keep loving. A recommended book to start an important conversation.
I do indeed believe that we need to talk about race.
December 12, 2020
Lindsay covers a wide variety of topics within the experience of racism towards black people in the UK majority white churches. He provides informed and balanced reflections suitable for a variety of audiences, accompanied with questions for reflection at the end of each chapter. I particularly appreciated the ‘interlude’ chapters which focused on hearing the voice and experience of black women in particular. An accessible, articulate and well rounded introduction to the topic which lends itself to promoting further dialogue in the church.
September 19, 2020
I read this book as part of educating myself in the wake of George Floyd’s murder and discussed it in an online book group. I learned a lot from it but didn’t give it 5 stars because it was very London centric and didn’t really feel as relevant as it could be to less diverse areas of the UK.
August 6, 2024
A very helpful book for a white churchgoer to read and be challenged by. Good to know perspectives, and how I can be part of the conversation. I found it a bit difficult to follow at times personally, English being my second language and sometimes the references to other writers were not always easy to grasp for me, but absolutely worth a read for anyone who wants to be shaping church culture and not be a bystander.
June 16, 2020
Very helpful in understanding current issues, and working through my own ignorance.
September 22, 2020
Eye opening and brilliantly applicable.
So many moments in this I felt very challenged, and it certainly provoked great conversation.
So many moments in this I felt very challenged, and it certainly provoked great conversation.
November 22, 2020
Probably the only book about the UK church and race that I've come across - well worth a read! We did this as a book club as there are answers to consider to.
July 14, 2020
Important topic, but I found the book hard going. Good in places and glad I've read it. But disjointed and often making assertions without explanation.
November 14, 2020
This is a truly excellent book and it has been published at the right time.
The Black Lives Matter movement has galvanized institutions and individuals to question their attitudes about race, diversity and inclusion. In this book the author explores the experience of black and ethnic minority people who attend white majority churches in the UK and the barriers they face if they feel called to ministry. Unfortunately some people experience barriers even if they just wish to participate as church members.
First of all it is good to have a book that explores the UK experience because often people say that the the UK is not as racist as America and that things are fine here. Some politicians have even said that the UK is post racial. This is because they are blinded by privilege both white and black. Well newsflash, we are not post racial in the United Kingdom. It is simply that racial discrimination in the UK is more subtle and has 'finesse'. It has a different way of emerging. It's more subtle and hard to track, because it is embedded in the way our institutions operate, but the destructive effect is just the same as when racism is obvious, vocalised or seen in violence.
Whether racism is institutional or personal it has the same corrosive affect and where racism is embedded in institutional structures it can cause death. We see this in the coronavirus pandemic and in the way in which institutional racism and discrimination have combined with the virus to cause disproportionate deaths of ethnic minority people. And this happens because if your life chances and your employment chances and your health outcomes are eroded by institutional racism then you become more vulnerable to poor health and as we see unable to fight off ill health or a pandemic such as this one. Health inequality due to racism is alive and well in the UK. The pandemic shows us that race is still an issue that needs to be addressed in the UK and this book focuses on addressing racism within the church and within church structures.
I read this alongside Azariah France-William's book on racism in the Church of England and I thought that this book was even more helpful because it focuses on all churches in the UK and other denominations. The book is really easy to read and I find that helpful because it means that anybody can gain from reading it even if they don't go to church and even if they are not Christian. It is written in a way that non-church members and people from other faiths can read it and engage with the material.
I appreciated the way that the book has specific questions for individuals, for white people and for black people at the end of each chapter. This means that churches can actually engage with the material and use this book to initiate conversations in their home groups and congregations. It is an excellent book to work through with others.
Above all I like the fact that the book was very comprehensive. It includes history, touches on slavery and colonialism and it also addresses scripture and the contributions of black and ethnic minorities to the Church. The role of black people in the early church is something that is often overlooked in theological colleges. There is always a slant in UK church teaching that leaves you feeling as if the church emerged in England instead of the Middle East and Africa. Newsflash Augustin was African but why is he always depicted as white? Why is Jesus always depicted as a European? Yes some of that art is from the middle ages but in the 21st century why are some churches still perpetuating a lie? We need to think. The author challenges white and black church leaders and theologians to clearly contextualize our faith and honor the geographical and historical roots of our faith.
I am really excited about this book and the way in which it conveys a very important topic and the way in which it embraces contemporary issues about race, religion and society. I think that any church that embraces the teaching in this book and responds to it will find that they will build up their congregational knowledge and will strengthen their mission by beginning to dismantle those invisible racial divides. This book is is both deeply insightful and also helpful in practical ways. It is also inspiring because this book gives us hope and vision.
I was so encouraged by the vision and actions and the overall content in this book that I had to buy a physical copy for myself. It is a book that I will turn to again and again for understanding, ideas and a way forward.
Copy provided by SPCK Publishers via Netgalley in exchange for an unbiased review.
The Black Lives Matter movement has galvanized institutions and individuals to question their attitudes about race, diversity and inclusion. In this book the author explores the experience of black and ethnic minority people who attend white majority churches in the UK and the barriers they face if they feel called to ministry. Unfortunately some people experience barriers even if they just wish to participate as church members.
First of all it is good to have a book that explores the UK experience because often people say that the the UK is not as racist as America and that things are fine here. Some politicians have even said that the UK is post racial. This is because they are blinded by privilege both white and black. Well newsflash, we are not post racial in the United Kingdom. It is simply that racial discrimination in the UK is more subtle and has 'finesse'. It has a different way of emerging. It's more subtle and hard to track, because it is embedded in the way our institutions operate, but the destructive effect is just the same as when racism is obvious, vocalised or seen in violence.
Whether racism is institutional or personal it has the same corrosive affect and where racism is embedded in institutional structures it can cause death. We see this in the coronavirus pandemic and in the way in which institutional racism and discrimination have combined with the virus to cause disproportionate deaths of ethnic minority people. And this happens because if your life chances and your employment chances and your health outcomes are eroded by institutional racism then you become more vulnerable to poor health and as we see unable to fight off ill health or a pandemic such as this one. Health inequality due to racism is alive and well in the UK. The pandemic shows us that race is still an issue that needs to be addressed in the UK and this book focuses on addressing racism within the church and within church structures.
I read this alongside Azariah France-William's book on racism in the Church of England and I thought that this book was even more helpful because it focuses on all churches in the UK and other denominations. The book is really easy to read and I find that helpful because it means that anybody can gain from reading it even if they don't go to church and even if they are not Christian. It is written in a way that non-church members and people from other faiths can read it and engage with the material.
I appreciated the way that the book has specific questions for individuals, for white people and for black people at the end of each chapter. This means that churches can actually engage with the material and use this book to initiate conversations in their home groups and congregations. It is an excellent book to work through with others.
Above all I like the fact that the book was very comprehensive. It includes history, touches on slavery and colonialism and it also addresses scripture and the contributions of black and ethnic minorities to the Church. The role of black people in the early church is something that is often overlooked in theological colleges. There is always a slant in UK church teaching that leaves you feeling as if the church emerged in England instead of the Middle East and Africa. Newsflash Augustin was African but why is he always depicted as white? Why is Jesus always depicted as a European? Yes some of that art is from the middle ages but in the 21st century why are some churches still perpetuating a lie? We need to think. The author challenges white and black church leaders and theologians to clearly contextualize our faith and honor the geographical and historical roots of our faith.
I am really excited about this book and the way in which it conveys a very important topic and the way in which it embraces contemporary issues about race, religion and society. I think that any church that embraces the teaching in this book and responds to it will find that they will build up their congregational knowledge and will strengthen their mission by beginning to dismantle those invisible racial divides. This book is is both deeply insightful and also helpful in practical ways. It is also inspiring because this book gives us hope and vision.
I was so encouraged by the vision and actions and the overall content in this book that I had to buy a physical copy for myself. It is a book that I will turn to again and again for understanding, ideas and a way forward.
Copy provided by SPCK Publishers via Netgalley in exchange for an unbiased review.
August 1, 2020
A great book that is sorely needed at this time. As a white man I have been challenged recently (May and June 2020) to understand and respond to racism. This book has given me a new perspective of racism within the church and in general.
A must read for anyone at a white-majority church.
A must read for anyone at a white-majority church.
January 21, 2020
Ben Lindsay has created a helpful tool with his book. He has curated a list of resources that will help all of us!
When I finished Ben Lindsay’s book “We need to talk about race” I immediately told all my people to buy it and read it too. This book is ideal for discussion groups. Every page is worth reading multiple times. If you care about race or don’t. If conversations about race make you excited, nervous, awkward or sad. If you are in the U.K., the USA, Zimbabwe or anywhere else. If your community is diverse or if your community is pretty homogeneous, this book is for you and me and all of us.
Buy it, read it, share it, talk about it. Ben proves on every page that we NEED to talk about race. The world deserves a church functioning as Jesus created it and as Ben describes it. This book left my heart full of hope and courage. What a wonderful way to end a Sunday night.
When I finished Ben Lindsay’s book “We need to talk about race” I immediately told all my people to buy it and read it too. This book is ideal for discussion groups. Every page is worth reading multiple times. If you care about race or don’t. If conversations about race make you excited, nervous, awkward or sad. If you are in the U.K., the USA, Zimbabwe or anywhere else. If your community is diverse or if your community is pretty homogeneous, this book is for you and me and all of us.
Buy it, read it, share it, talk about it. Ben proves on every page that we NEED to talk about race. The world deserves a church functioning as Jesus created it and as Ben describes it. This book left my heart full of hope and courage. What a wonderful way to end a Sunday night.
June 17, 2020
Having just finished reading "Let's Talk About Race" by Ben Lindsay, I would highly recommend it to my Christian brothers and sisters. If you belong to Christ then delve into this more, look at what you can do as the body of Christ to stand with your hurting family.
This book provided me with knowledge and understanding about the black experience in a white majority church. With this current issues going on, I would implore you to learn more about what you can do.
In the book Ben asks "Do you see yourself as an ally in challenging the structures of racism in your church and beyond?" Can you answer yes to this?
He goes on to say you can either be a perpetrator, a bystander or a resister. Which do you want to be? I know what I want to be and that's a resister to racism! An actively anti racist part of the body of Christ.
This book provided me with knowledge and understanding about the black experience in a white majority church. With this current issues going on, I would implore you to learn more about what you can do.
In the book Ben asks "Do you see yourself as an ally in challenging the structures of racism in your church and beyond?" Can you answer yes to this?
He goes on to say you can either be a perpetrator, a bystander or a resister. Which do you want to be? I know what I want to be and that's a resister to racism! An actively anti racist part of the body of Christ.
August 1, 2020
Wanting to expand by horizons amid BLM, I chose this book written by a black pastor anticipating some Kingdom principles as a common baseline. Obviously a lot of other people did too because there was a long wait b/w ordering and delivery.
Although it brought up some important points, I spent most of the book wishing Ben Lindsay was in the room with me since I felt it raised many more questions than it answered and tended to lump 'white people' together in the way that people are often rebuked for using the dreadful collective lumping of 'black people' ie: too generic. Was I just being defensive? Not consciously – and I hope not at all – but I would love to have used this as a conversation catalyst; for example why would anyone want to do church this way anyway regardless of skin colour?
Although it brought up some important points, I spent most of the book wishing Ben Lindsay was in the room with me since I felt it raised many more questions than it answered and tended to lump 'white people' together in the way that people are often rebuked for using the dreadful collective lumping of 'black people' ie: too generic. Was I just being defensive? Not consciously – and I hope not at all – but I would love to have used this as a conversation catalyst; for example why would anyone want to do church this way anyway regardless of skin colour?
August 20, 2019
Must read for all
Ben Lindsay has written a really helpful, somewhat painful, eye opener for the Church on the issue of racism. This book is an easy read on a very complex issue and puts forth a great challenge to church leaders and members alike.....an easy read but not necessarily a comfortable one, most definitely an enlightening one.
Ben Lindsay has written a really helpful, somewhat painful, eye opener for the Church on the issue of racism. This book is an easy read on a very complex issue and puts forth a great challenge to church leaders and members alike.....an easy read but not necessarily a comfortable one, most definitely an enlightening one.
May 20, 2021
Great concept but not enough attention to what the Biblical texts say. The race conversation so easily gets entangled in politics, modern culture, and personal conviction. I was hoping this one would avoid that. We need God's word to speak from the outside into our human mess. There were a few helpful chapters and it's always important to listen to those from a different background.
July 28, 2020
Helpful to hear about some of the black experience in UK churches. I don’t think that the book offers a coherent call to action. It seemed muddled and left me slightly confused about the path forward
August 3, 2020
"The world around us is in desperate need of displays of racial unity and a multicoloured picture of hope. I believe the Church of Jesus Christ has the power to be a witness. How do we get there? It will be a long and difficult journey, but we can start by talking about race."
That's the conclusion of this challenging book from Ben Lindsay, who shares his perspective on attitudes towards race in British churches. This book was written before this year's "Black Lives Matter" protests, but for me was a helpful supplement to the BLM media coverage.
He starts by arguing that the UK church has been seemingly indifferent on the issue of race, but "silence should not be an option when it comes to racism" (13). Some of this apparent indifference has come from a mistaken idea that avoiding the race issue is noble - after all, we're part of a multinational community of God's people. This approach, however, fails to address real problems that remain. Race may be a social construct, but "we live in a racialized society," where past actions and attitudes have had lasting power that we cannot ignore (83). This is why colour-blindness is often seen as a strength by white people, but a weakness by many black people (64).
If the UK church is going to talk effectively about race, this needs to happen at a number of different levels, so Lindsay argues. This includes the pulpit. There are certain things that are not seen as "pulpit-worthy topics", even though they are part of the "daily lives of ethnically diverse communities" (127). I wonder if our aversion to a wrong kind of political preaching has made us reluctant to preach on such issues. Everyday conversations are important too. Lindsay notes that many churches have succeeded in being diverse – but this doesn't mean that they are inclusive of black people, who can still be marginalised and made to feel like the "other."
As well as the theological and personal reflections, Ben Lindsay offers a helpful historical perspective. He comments on depictions of the history of slavery, where narratives are often reduced to the story of white Christians gifting black people freedom. We need to acknowledge, however, the white Christians who enslaved, and the black people who worked for abolition. In response to the objection that slavery is an issue of the past, Lindsay notes that it has a continued legacy into the present. Indeed, until 2015, UK tax payers' money was used to compensate slave owners, for example (44).
The whole book is very readable, and engaging, with helpful reflection questions for people approaching the book from various perspectives. There are a number of things that I wouldn't agree with Lindsay on, and he unnecessarily conflates race and gender questions. But as a challenge to listen seriously to the experiences of black people, this book is an important read. If we want to celebrate the glorious diversity and unity of the body of Christ, we need to talk about race.
That's the conclusion of this challenging book from Ben Lindsay, who shares his perspective on attitudes towards race in British churches. This book was written before this year's "Black Lives Matter" protests, but for me was a helpful supplement to the BLM media coverage.
He starts by arguing that the UK church has been seemingly indifferent on the issue of race, but "silence should not be an option when it comes to racism" (13). Some of this apparent indifference has come from a mistaken idea that avoiding the race issue is noble - after all, we're part of a multinational community of God's people. This approach, however, fails to address real problems that remain. Race may be a social construct, but "we live in a racialized society," where past actions and attitudes have had lasting power that we cannot ignore (83). This is why colour-blindness is often seen as a strength by white people, but a weakness by many black people (64).
If the UK church is going to talk effectively about race, this needs to happen at a number of different levels, so Lindsay argues. This includes the pulpit. There are certain things that are not seen as "pulpit-worthy topics", even though they are part of the "daily lives of ethnically diverse communities" (127). I wonder if our aversion to a wrong kind of political preaching has made us reluctant to preach on such issues. Everyday conversations are important too. Lindsay notes that many churches have succeeded in being diverse – but this doesn't mean that they are inclusive of black people, who can still be marginalised and made to feel like the "other."
As well as the theological and personal reflections, Ben Lindsay offers a helpful historical perspective. He comments on depictions of the history of slavery, where narratives are often reduced to the story of white Christians gifting black people freedom. We need to acknowledge, however, the white Christians who enslaved, and the black people who worked for abolition. In response to the objection that slavery is an issue of the past, Lindsay notes that it has a continued legacy into the present. Indeed, until 2015, UK tax payers' money was used to compensate slave owners, for example (44).
The whole book is very readable, and engaging, with helpful reflection questions for people approaching the book from various perspectives. There are a number of things that I wouldn't agree with Lindsay on, and he unnecessarily conflates race and gender questions. But as a challenge to listen seriously to the experiences of black people, this book is an important read. If we want to celebrate the glorious diversity and unity of the body of Christ, we need to talk about race.
June 3, 2024
An eye-opening and thought-provoking exploration of what it is like to be black in a white majority church in the UK. Lindsay draws on his own experience, but also refers to many interviews he has had with others as well as quoting from numerous authors and speakers. Each chapter explores a different area of black experience in UK church life. Each chapter also concludes with different questions for the reader, depending on whether they are a black or white church member or a black or white church leader. These questions become increasingly more 'action based' as the book progresses, and the text also gives several suggestions of what to do for those who want to see change, so I'm a little puzzled by the reviewers who complain the book gave no clear guidance on what action they could take! Lindsay also includes a helpful bibliography.
I appreciated that Lindsay took the time to define many of the terms he was using and to make the book accessible for those who are new to the topic - I've read far too many books which assume a lot of background knowledge, so that the new reader is left floundering and confused.
I did feel in some places that Lindsay painted his picture with too broad a brush-stroke, particularly where he conflates class and race when discussing leadership; white and middle class are not synonymous terms, yet Lindsay sometimes treats them as such. There is also an occasional tendency to assume racism where none might exist. For example, he claims that if a white person forgets a black person's name, it is racist - well, it might be, but it might just be that they have a rotten memory and forget white people's names too! I was also not convinced by his claims that Christianity is essentially African in origin - if we are to assign any ethnicity to the origins of Christianity, then it must surely be Jewish, so I was a bit puzzled by his arguments here. But in spite of these minor issues, it is an excellent book and well worth reading for anyone in the UK with an active Christian faith, but especially for church leaders. It's not an easy read - reading about injustice and suffering never is - but it's far too important an issue for the UK church to ignore. Please read with an open heart and mind.
I appreciated that Lindsay took the time to define many of the terms he was using and to make the book accessible for those who are new to the topic - I've read far too many books which assume a lot of background knowledge, so that the new reader is left floundering and confused.
I did feel in some places that Lindsay painted his picture with too broad a brush-stroke, particularly where he conflates class and race when discussing leadership; white and middle class are not synonymous terms, yet Lindsay sometimes treats them as such. There is also an occasional tendency to assume racism where none might exist. For example, he claims that if a white person forgets a black person's name, it is racist - well, it might be, but it might just be that they have a rotten memory and forget white people's names too! I was also not convinced by his claims that Christianity is essentially African in origin - if we are to assign any ethnicity to the origins of Christianity, then it must surely be Jewish, so I was a bit puzzled by his arguments here. But in spite of these minor issues, it is an excellent book and well worth reading for anyone in the UK with an active Christian faith, but especially for church leaders. It's not an easy read - reading about injustice and suffering never is - but it's far too important an issue for the UK church to ignore. Please read with an open heart and mind.
July 3, 2021
This book was incredibly relatable. For perhaps the first time, I truly felt I had permission to feel, think and say things that for a long time I did not understand I was allowed to. I felt validated in my experiences as I read through the instances and stories. It was a bittersweet read; healing in one way as shared experiences were articulated so well and I realised I wasn’t alone but saddening in another way as the realities are ugly.
Ben Lindsay provokes and challenges both black and white races to fully engage with the issues at hand, without making carrying a tone of harsh rebuke. He addresses and speaks to the common lethargies and reluctance that appears when people begin discussing the topic of race and injustice. The book is a firm reminder that societal and church transformation will not just happen, we (especially Christians) must be willing to roll up our sleeves and make swift and intentionally movements towards dismantling a history of division, discrimination and injustice in order to make room for a different future.
Perhaps what I still was looking for as I always am in these conversations is a wider conversation that includes all races and backgrounds participating in the conversation and action. Particularly if we are going after the kingdom vision of all tribes, tongues and nations, these issues are not solely tied to two races, neither are all the issues simply to do with race (it’s a humanity issue), however often that’s how the conversation goes. I also found the topic of reparations a challenging one, not because there shouldn’t be room for such but because I would have loved to hear this in light of the paid work of Christ on the cross…how does the gospel shape our understanding needing payment from man and how can it settle our hearts even when material reparations are not presented.
Overall a worthwhile read covering good ground in so few pages. What it sets out to provide it delivers (an insight into the experiences, not necessarily a complete theological and practical breakdown).
Ben Lindsay provokes and challenges both black and white races to fully engage with the issues at hand, without making carrying a tone of harsh rebuke. He addresses and speaks to the common lethargies and reluctance that appears when people begin discussing the topic of race and injustice. The book is a firm reminder that societal and church transformation will not just happen, we (especially Christians) must be willing to roll up our sleeves and make swift and intentionally movements towards dismantling a history of division, discrimination and injustice in order to make room for a different future.
Perhaps what I still was looking for as I always am in these conversations is a wider conversation that includes all races and backgrounds participating in the conversation and action. Particularly if we are going after the kingdom vision of all tribes, tongues and nations, these issues are not solely tied to two races, neither are all the issues simply to do with race (it’s a humanity issue), however often that’s how the conversation goes. I also found the topic of reparations a challenging one, not because there shouldn’t be room for such but because I would have loved to hear this in light of the paid work of Christ on the cross…how does the gospel shape our understanding needing payment from man and how can it settle our hearts even when material reparations are not presented.
Overall a worthwhile read covering good ground in so few pages. What it sets out to provide it delivers (an insight into the experiences, not necessarily a complete theological and practical breakdown).
July 6, 2020
I picked this book up to educate myself as Black Lives Matter came to a more global stage in the last few weeks. I always thought that I was a good person, that I wasn’t racist, but I realised that may not be true. And even if it is true, it’s not enough. I needed to learn more about black experiences, so that I could be part of the solution and not part of the problem.
What I realised through reading this book, is that I have been blind to so much. Systematic racism that happens in the places that I hold dearest to my heart, in the places I would never expect there to be such hatred, and as a church (globally, not just locally), we need to do much better.
I appreciated how many people’s stories were weaved into this book, bringing different perspectives and experiences that we can and must learn from if we need to move forward into a society where your worth is not determined by the colour of your skin.
I also really appreciated the discussion questions at the end of each chapter. I read the book on my own, but I could see that this would be a great read as part of a house group or book club. The questions would definitely have been great springboards into meaningful discussion.
There are so many books on my list to read to educate myself more about race, but the fact that this one was British and with a Christian perspective definitely elevated it to the top of my list. And I’m so glad I did read it, because it opened my eyes to so much.
The book wasn’t an easy read in any way, in fact in places it was quite uncomfortable reading. But it was written in a way that made it quite easy to read.
I’d definitely recommend this book to everyone I know as a first step in education, and I’m glad that the author also recommends other things to read as I don’t want my learning to stop here.
Published on: https://emmaloui.se/2020/06/14/ben-li...
What I realised through reading this book, is that I have been blind to so much. Systematic racism that happens in the places that I hold dearest to my heart, in the places I would never expect there to be such hatred, and as a church (globally, not just locally), we need to do much better.
I appreciated how many people’s stories were weaved into this book, bringing different perspectives and experiences that we can and must learn from if we need to move forward into a society where your worth is not determined by the colour of your skin.
I also really appreciated the discussion questions at the end of each chapter. I read the book on my own, but I could see that this would be a great read as part of a house group or book club. The questions would definitely have been great springboards into meaningful discussion.
There are so many books on my list to read to educate myself more about race, but the fact that this one was British and with a Christian perspective definitely elevated it to the top of my list. And I’m so glad I did read it, because it opened my eyes to so much.
The book wasn’t an easy read in any way, in fact in places it was quite uncomfortable reading. But it was written in a way that made it quite easy to read.
I’d definitely recommend this book to everyone I know as a first step in education, and I’m glad that the author also recommends other things to read as I don’t want my learning to stop here.
Published on: https://emmaloui.se/2020/06/14/ben-li...
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