What do you think?
Rate this book
When Narcissism Comes to Church: Healing Your Community From Emotional and Spiritual Abuse
Why does narcissism seem to thrive in our churches?
We've seen the news stories and heard the rumors. Maybe we ourselves have been hurt by a narcissistic church leader. It's easy to throw the term around and diagnose others from afar. But what is narcissism, really? And how does it infiltrate the church?
Chuck DeGroat has been counseling pastors with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, as well as those wounded by narcissistic leaders and systems, for over twenty years. He knows firsthand the devastation narcissism leaves in its wake and how insidious and painful it is. In When Narcissism Comes to Church, DeGroat takes a close look at narcissism, not only in ministry leaders but also in church systems. He offers compassion and hope for those affected by its destructive power and imparts wise counsel for churches looking to heal from its systemic effects.
DeGroat also offers hope for narcissists themselves―not by any shortcut, but by the long, slow road of genuine recovery, possible only through repentance and trust in the humble gospel of Jesus.
We've seen the news stories and heard the rumors. Maybe we ourselves have been hurt by a narcissistic church leader. It's easy to throw the term around and diagnose others from afar. But what is narcissism, really? And how does it infiltrate the church?
Chuck DeGroat has been counseling pastors with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, as well as those wounded by narcissistic leaders and systems, for over twenty years. He knows firsthand the devastation narcissism leaves in its wake and how insidious and painful it is. In When Narcissism Comes to Church, DeGroat takes a close look at narcissism, not only in ministry leaders but also in church systems. He offers compassion and hope for those affected by its destructive power and imparts wise counsel for churches looking to heal from its systemic effects.
DeGroat also offers hope for narcissists themselves―not by any shortcut, but by the long, slow road of genuine recovery, possible only through repentance and trust in the humble gospel of Jesus.
192 pages, Kindle Edition
First published March 17, 2020
404 people are currently reading
4710 people want to read
About the author
Chuck DeGroat
29 books95 followersChuck DeGroat is director of the counseling center at City Church in San Francisco, as well as academic dean of the Newbigin House of Studies. He also served as professor and director of spiritual formation at Reformed Theological Seminary in Orlando.
Ratings & Reviews
Friends & Following
Create a free account to discover what your friends think of this book!
Community Reviews
Displaying 1 - 30 of 431 reviews
May 13, 2020
Just like taking an abnormal psych class in college, a reader will likely see their reflection on many pages in the 200-page hardback "When Narcissism Comes to Church: Healing Your Community from Emotional and Spiritual Abuse". This newly released dossier, written by Chuck DeGroat, professor of pastoral care and Christian spirituality at Western Theological Seminary in Holland, Michigan, and senior fellow at Newbigin House of Studies in San Francisco, is a velvet covered brick. It is easily readable, and reasonably attainable.
DeGroat exposes the varied ways narcissism shows up in a parish, whether in the leadership, families, or congregational culture; and how it can show up in the corporate culture of an ecclesiastical denomination, association or network. It arises from the "lack of capacity for self-awareness and self-evaluation, shunning humility for defensive self-protection" (15). Further, according to the author, a deep, underlying shame is the driving force in narcissism (41), and a grasping for power is it's major dynamic (94). And when this shows up in the leadership, it becomes relationally ugly, where many narcissistic pastors "have little ability to empower others in meaningful ways" and "power, privilege, and entitlement are expressed in toxic ways" so that the "things he feels entitled to become extensions of his ego" (74-5). The two crucial chapters that tease out narcissistic traits, especially in leadership, are the 3rd and 4th, "The Nine Faces of Narcissism" and "Characteristics of the Narcissistic Pastor". Every pastoral search committee should examine these chapters to help them as they strive to discern a candidate's qualifications for their congregation.
If a reader has been impacted by, or studied, abusive people - spouses, parents, supervisors - they will find a hand-in-glove connection between the traits of an abuser and the characteristics of a narcissist. The gaslighting, history-twisting, browbeating, crazy-making, manipulating, retaliating, polarizing, domineering-to-secure-victory ploys of an abuser look oddly similar to a narcissist. Further, I will make so bold as to say, if, as you read this volume, you aren't finding yourself doing some self-evaluating, meaningful repenting, and behavior changing, you are likely part of the disease and not part of the remedy.
For a few there will be little niggling nicks and pricks as they read through the book. If a reader is a complimentarian, the egalitarian approach of the author may disappoint them here and there, but it is not overbearing or hobbyhorse-ish. And there's hope a-plenty in these pages. Not an easy peasy kind of hope, but rugged and resilient, because "God who refuses to reduce anyone to a label...both confronts sin with utter seriousness and offers grace with utter lavishness" (149).
"When Narcissism Comes to Church" is a valuable resource. It needs to be read by all levels of ecclesiastical leadership. It must be in the hands of every pastoral search committee. And if you have been on the receiving end of a narcissist, this manuscript has a lot to give you for your own restoration and recovery. I highly recommend the book.
My thanks to IVP. I asked for the book to review and they freely sent me the copy used for this assessment. Moreover, they made no demands or stipulations and allowed me free rein. Thus, my evaluations are freely made and freely given.
DeGroat exposes the varied ways narcissism shows up in a parish, whether in the leadership, families, or congregational culture; and how it can show up in the corporate culture of an ecclesiastical denomination, association or network. It arises from the "lack of capacity for self-awareness and self-evaluation, shunning humility for defensive self-protection" (15). Further, according to the author, a deep, underlying shame is the driving force in narcissism (41), and a grasping for power is it's major dynamic (94). And when this shows up in the leadership, it becomes relationally ugly, where many narcissistic pastors "have little ability to empower others in meaningful ways" and "power, privilege, and entitlement are expressed in toxic ways" so that the "things he feels entitled to become extensions of his ego" (74-5). The two crucial chapters that tease out narcissistic traits, especially in leadership, are the 3rd and 4th, "The Nine Faces of Narcissism" and "Characteristics of the Narcissistic Pastor". Every pastoral search committee should examine these chapters to help them as they strive to discern a candidate's qualifications for their congregation.
If a reader has been impacted by, or studied, abusive people - spouses, parents, supervisors - they will find a hand-in-glove connection between the traits of an abuser and the characteristics of a narcissist. The gaslighting, history-twisting, browbeating, crazy-making, manipulating, retaliating, polarizing, domineering-to-secure-victory ploys of an abuser look oddly similar to a narcissist. Further, I will make so bold as to say, if, as you read this volume, you aren't finding yourself doing some self-evaluating, meaningful repenting, and behavior changing, you are likely part of the disease and not part of the remedy.
For a few there will be little niggling nicks and pricks as they read through the book. If a reader is a complimentarian, the egalitarian approach of the author may disappoint them here and there, but it is not overbearing or hobbyhorse-ish. And there's hope a-plenty in these pages. Not an easy peasy kind of hope, but rugged and resilient, because "God who refuses to reduce anyone to a label...both confronts sin with utter seriousness and offers grace with utter lavishness" (149).
"When Narcissism Comes to Church" is a valuable resource. It needs to be read by all levels of ecclesiastical leadership. It must be in the hands of every pastoral search committee. And if you have been on the receiving end of a narcissist, this manuscript has a lot to give you for your own restoration and recovery. I highly recommend the book.
My thanks to IVP. I asked for the book to review and they freely sent me the copy used for this assessment. Moreover, they made no demands or stipulations and allowed me free rein. Thus, my evaluations are freely made and freely given.
May 21, 2021
This book helped me see patterns of pride in my own life.
Far too often we valorise pride in the life of a leader. But, that is terribly destructive for everyone involved from the leader, to his victims, down to the very system he creates.
Far too often we valorise pride in the life of a leader. But, that is terribly destructive for everyone involved from the leader, to his victims, down to the very system he creates.
June 8, 2020
Summary: Explores the expressions narcissism can take in the church, the damage it may do, and healing both for the abused and the narcissists who abuse them.
Chuck DeGroat makes this observation early in this book: "A colleague of mine says that ministry is a magnet for a narcissistic personality--who else would want to speak on behalf of God every week?" As a counselor, Chuck DeGroat has seen both narcissists and the people they leave in their wake. Many of them are in the church--church leaders, pastors, or even the quiet but "indispensable" administrator, who is controlling and has everyone around him or her walking on eggshells.
DeGroat helps us to recognize the narcissist in our church and what attracts them. Particularly, he notes how many of the screening inventories for church planters actually select for narcissists. Using the Enneagram, he shows nine different ways narcissists manifest according to each of the types. He then identifies ten characteristics of the narcissistic pastor including: all decision-making centers on them, impatience, feelings of entitlement, and inconsistency and impulsiveness.. Inwardly, the narcissist struggles with shame and rage.
The insidious aspect of this is that narcissism can infect they entire system of a church. A narcissistic leader. It results in a church unable to be honest. DeGroat describes different times of dysfunctional system and what health looks like. He exposes the gaslighting techniques of the narcissist that make others feel "crazy, uncertain, confused, insecure, and bewildered." This is what life around a narcissist is like and DeGroat helps us see what it is like to be married to one, and why so many such marriages end in divorce.
DeGroat's final chapters chart the process of healing both for individuals and churches who have been abused by narcissist in the church, and the narcissist. Both take time, pealing back the layers of defense. Especially with the narcissist, the challenge is coming to believe that the real person underneath the glittering image of the narcissist is actually far more beautiful.
This is an important book, especially for any of those involved in calling and placing church's leaders. Pastoral search communities need to read this book before embarking on their work. Most of all, those in a situation where the charismatic leader who fills the pews or is indispensable is driving everyone crazy, you might want to read this book to understand what may be going on. Sadly, we often are drawn too much to the glittering images and do not consider what lies beneath. DeGroat relates numerous examples but also offers hope that healing can take place, if people are willing to face the truth.
________________________________
Disclosure of Material Connection: I received a complimentary review copy of this book from the publisher. The opinions I have expressed are my own.
Chuck DeGroat makes this observation early in this book: "A colleague of mine says that ministry is a magnet for a narcissistic personality--who else would want to speak on behalf of God every week?" As a counselor, Chuck DeGroat has seen both narcissists and the people they leave in their wake. Many of them are in the church--church leaders, pastors, or even the quiet but "indispensable" administrator, who is controlling and has everyone around him or her walking on eggshells.
DeGroat helps us to recognize the narcissist in our church and what attracts them. Particularly, he notes how many of the screening inventories for church planters actually select for narcissists. Using the Enneagram, he shows nine different ways narcissists manifest according to each of the types. He then identifies ten characteristics of the narcissistic pastor including: all decision-making centers on them, impatience, feelings of entitlement, and inconsistency and impulsiveness.. Inwardly, the narcissist struggles with shame and rage.
The insidious aspect of this is that narcissism can infect they entire system of a church. A narcissistic leader. It results in a church unable to be honest. DeGroat describes different times of dysfunctional system and what health looks like. He exposes the gaslighting techniques of the narcissist that make others feel "crazy, uncertain, confused, insecure, and bewildered." This is what life around a narcissist is like and DeGroat helps us see what it is like to be married to one, and why so many such marriages end in divorce.
DeGroat's final chapters chart the process of healing both for individuals and churches who have been abused by narcissist in the church, and the narcissist. Both take time, pealing back the layers of defense. Especially with the narcissist, the challenge is coming to believe that the real person underneath the glittering image of the narcissist is actually far more beautiful.
This is an important book, especially for any of those involved in calling and placing church's leaders. Pastoral search communities need to read this book before embarking on their work. Most of all, those in a situation where the charismatic leader who fills the pews or is indispensable is driving everyone crazy, you might want to read this book to understand what may be going on. Sadly, we often are drawn too much to the glittering images and do not consider what lies beneath. DeGroat relates numerous examples but also offers hope that healing can take place, if people are willing to face the truth.
________________________________
Disclosure of Material Connection: I received a complimentary review copy of this book from the publisher. The opinions I have expressed are my own.
March 19, 2021
Pros: narcissism is real and (ouch!) I "have had?", "have?", "had?" a good bit of it. DeGroat serves us well by showing us what it looks like, patterns, etc. I really appreciated this, and it fueled a whole bunch of praying. It also helped me do postmortems on past relationships, but particularly work relationships.
Cons: it is super vexing and annoying to me when "mental health professionals" take the epistemological high ground and assume their clinical "expertise" trumps the authority of Scripture. So I find myself "yelling at the windscreen", except, because I listened to it mostly while walking, it was more like mumbling, Fred-Flintstone style, under my breath.
As a believing psychologist, I expect to see De Groat have some humility towards the authority of Scripture. He comes across as the very idea that someone would assert that an interpretation of the Bible is correct is itself a danger sign of narcissism.
I could be getting him wrong. But, as Adrian Monk would say, "I don't think so."
Cons: it is super vexing and annoying to me when "mental health professionals" take the epistemological high ground and assume their clinical "expertise" trumps the authority of Scripture. So I find myself "yelling at the windscreen", except, because I listened to it mostly while walking, it was more like mumbling, Fred-Flintstone style, under my breath.
As a believing psychologist, I expect to see De Groat have some humility towards the authority of Scripture. He comes across as the very idea that someone would assert that an interpretation of the Bible is correct is itself a danger sign of narcissism.
I could be getting him wrong. But, as Adrian Monk would say, "I don't think so."
October 8, 2020
This is the kind of book where if I don't purposefully keep my review to a few words, I'll end up with 10 or more pages of debates of all the points of this book, both good and bad. I'll try to be brief.
DeGroat excels in defining narcissism, both in and out of religious settings, and the complex spectrum in which narcissistic behaviors can present to others. He clearly examines the problem with narcissism in religious settings, particularly church planting, and the ways in which a narcissists can change. (Spoiler alert: years of therapy.) The attachment of his ideas to pop culture's current favorite personality test, the enneagram, severely weakens his overall arguments. While he significantly delves into narcissistic behaviors, he spends very little to almost no time discussing how a non-narcissist can navigate and manage working or worshiping with one. Great examples of problems caused by narcissistic church leaders, but not much on how to solve those problems other than the narcissist admitting and seeking help or getting rid of the toxic person.
It was OK, but wasn't what I expected given the "healing your community" title.
DeGroat excels in defining narcissism, both in and out of religious settings, and the complex spectrum in which narcissistic behaviors can present to others. He clearly examines the problem with narcissism in religious settings, particularly church planting, and the ways in which a narcissists can change. (Spoiler alert: years of therapy.) The attachment of his ideas to pop culture's current favorite personality test, the enneagram, severely weakens his overall arguments. While he significantly delves into narcissistic behaviors, he spends very little to almost no time discussing how a non-narcissist can navigate and manage working or worshiping with one. Great examples of problems caused by narcissistic church leaders, but not much on how to solve those problems other than the narcissist admitting and seeking help or getting rid of the toxic person.
It was OK, but wasn't what I expected given the "healing your community" title.
May 30, 2025
10/10 recommend for those who’ve been hurt, betrayed, used or condemned by narcissistic leaders, staff members or members of congregation at your church. It’s not an easy read…I cried through some of these chapters as I began to better understand what I had experienced, how it had happened and why I have struggled with the effects for so long. But I took my time reading it slow and the journey is well worth it. It ends with an incredible amount of hope amidst dark and broken situations. Jesus will always reign victorious over the narcissist. ❤️
February 24, 2020
The day I first heard about Chuck DeGroat’s latest book, When Narcissism Comes to Church: Healing Your Community from Emotional and Spiritual Abuse (IVP, 2020), I could not wait to read it. I pre-ordered it months ago, so when the opportunity arose to be on the launch team arose, I jumped at it. Over the last few years, DeGroat has become one of my favorite authors. Each of his previous books have had a significant impact upon me, though I consider Wholeheartedness (Eerdmans, 2016) to be one of the handful of books that has had a profound effect upon my thinking.
As DeGroat wrote in the epilogue of this book, “this cultural moment is ripe for a book like this” (p. 168). Even those only tangentially connected with church culture in the last several years know that there have been multiple seismic shifts in large churches and small churches alike. It seems that barely a week passes when yet another example of spiritual or emotional abuse surfaces on social media.
In When Narcissism Comes to Church, DeGroat invites us in to his years of experience working with those wounded by the church and his work with the churches themselves, always with an eye toward redemption. His experience is a true asset to those wanting to understand the impact unchecked narcissism can have upon community, but his added experience with the Enneagram allows him to bring a unique addition to understanding the different ways in which narcissism may manifest. Even if you consider yourself to be well versed in the Enneagram, narcissism, spiritual abuse, or psychological dynamics, I can nearly promise that this book will help you to understand narcissism in ways that you have not previously considered.
Throughout the book, I saw glimpses of myself many times and was reminded of being confronted by my own growing narcissism, which I wrote about in an article for Fathom Magazine (October, 2018), “I Became What I Hate.” In her own way, my teenage daughter bravely shared with me how she experienced me, which is something Dr. DeGroat wrote about in this book. Her words cracked open my narcissistic veneer. I am trying to live from my truest self, though the temptation still exists to hide again. The work, it seems, is never finished.
I can recommend this book unreservedly. Whether you have been hurt by a narcissistic person or system, or whether you want to know your own impact—as a leader, spouse, or system—this book will of benefit. Even if you have no idea what narcissism, spiritual abuse, or emotional abuse actually means, this is a good place to start. But regardless of where you are coming from, let me encourage you to start not from a place of accusation, but in seeking to know yourself. There is hope for change, but not without rigorous self-honesty.
As DeGroat wrote in the epilogue of this book, “this cultural moment is ripe for a book like this” (p. 168). Even those only tangentially connected with church culture in the last several years know that there have been multiple seismic shifts in large churches and small churches alike. It seems that barely a week passes when yet another example of spiritual or emotional abuse surfaces on social media.
In When Narcissism Comes to Church, DeGroat invites us in to his years of experience working with those wounded by the church and his work with the churches themselves, always with an eye toward redemption. His experience is a true asset to those wanting to understand the impact unchecked narcissism can have upon community, but his added experience with the Enneagram allows him to bring a unique addition to understanding the different ways in which narcissism may manifest. Even if you consider yourself to be well versed in the Enneagram, narcissism, spiritual abuse, or psychological dynamics, I can nearly promise that this book will help you to understand narcissism in ways that you have not previously considered.
Throughout the book, I saw glimpses of myself many times and was reminded of being confronted by my own growing narcissism, which I wrote about in an article for Fathom Magazine (October, 2018), “I Became What I Hate.” In her own way, my teenage daughter bravely shared with me how she experienced me, which is something Dr. DeGroat wrote about in this book. Her words cracked open my narcissistic veneer. I am trying to live from my truest self, though the temptation still exists to hide again. The work, it seems, is never finished.
I can recommend this book unreservedly. Whether you have been hurt by a narcissistic person or system, or whether you want to know your own impact—as a leader, spouse, or system—this book will of benefit. Even if you have no idea what narcissism, spiritual abuse, or emotional abuse actually means, this is a good place to start. But regardless of where you are coming from, let me encourage you to start not from a place of accusation, but in seeking to know yourself. There is hope for change, but not without rigorous self-honesty.
March 22, 2025
It is easy to read a book like this and point a finger at all the people who have hurt us or those around us. Chuck DeGroat writes in an incredibly pastoral and introspective way that gives the reader permission to address those realities but also forces them to look deep within at their ego and pride. An incredibly helpful and humbling book.
September 7, 2021
My big (there are many) takeaway from this book: please message me and tell me, how do you experience me?
April 26, 2020
Great read. When Narcissism Comes to Church enables us to not only better understand narcissistic behavior that may have hurt us, helpfully identify narcissistic tendencies in ourselves, but also equip us to forgive those who have hurt us by showing us they are themselves hurting. DeGroat offers a way forward for people and Church systems suffering the influence of NPD, that leaning into a courageous process of grief, honesty, humility, truth-speaking, and relentless curiosity opens the way out of toxicity to health. It was encouraging to hear the author acknowledge the long, hard wilderness journey of recovery after suffering abuse from those with NPD. "We may leave Egypt, but Egypt lives on in our traumatized psyches." But as we engage the trauma, seek wise guides to direct us on our slow road to healing, we must accept Jesus' invitation to "come to me, all you that are weary and are carrying heavy burdens, and I will give you rest”. This is honestly the first time I have heard anyone recognise the long, difficult journey of recovery for those who have been traumatized by spiritual bullies while also holding out hope for those with NPD - that if they only lower their defenses and surrender their idealized projection of themselves - there is hope.
May 18, 2020
About the book • 192 pages • Published March 17, 2020 by IVP • Non Fiction • Christian Living • 5 ⭐️ read • Very Informative
When I started this I was worried it was going to have a negative impact on me. But it was not. It was loaded with first account experiences along with educational, diagnostics, and self evaluation. I had no idea of the spectrum of narcissism was so complex.
Accountability is greatly lacking in the American Church today and this helped me to understand a lot of things about this diagnosis. My mother has boarderline disorder and My father is a narcissist. So for me, this book gave me hope and a whole source of reference books.
This wasn’t an easy read but I think a lot of people would enjoy this as a book study. And the good news is that God never gives up on us!
This was a NETGALLEY gift by the publisher and all opinions are my own. I’ve given an honest review.
When I started this I was worried it was going to have a negative impact on me. But it was not. It was loaded with first account experiences along with educational, diagnostics, and self evaluation. I had no idea of the spectrum of narcissism was so complex.
Accountability is greatly lacking in the American Church today and this helped me to understand a lot of things about this diagnosis. My mother has boarderline disorder and My father is a narcissist. So for me, this book gave me hope and a whole source of reference books.
This wasn’t an easy read but I think a lot of people would enjoy this as a book study. And the good news is that God never gives up on us!
This was a NETGALLEY gift by the publisher and all opinions are my own. I’ve given an honest review.
October 9, 2020
ASTONISHINGLY VALUABLE. Very healing for me as someone harmed by narcissism in the church. And challenging, too, because we all feel that pull. I recommend this to everyone, but especially those in or thinking about ministry as well as those harmed by narcissism in Christ's name. So grateful for this book, and for Anna Erickson who recommended it to me, the end.
June 30, 2020
This book has some very helpful aspects, but it also has some ideas that I believe oppose what the Bible actually teaches. There were a lot of references to Liberal theologians - including Richard Rohr (who claims the Christ is basically a name for all gods) and mentioning the enneagram as a good tool for reflection and growth. There were a lot of examples of women pastors (not that a therapist can’t help women pastors) but, I found it interesting that it appears he works more with women and mega pastors than smaller orthodox teachers. If I’m overlooking these things, which was difficult- I found his knowledge on psychology to be helpful.
One thing it’s confirmed for me is that I have experienced the abuse of a narcissist in church and I am not crazy.
I also appreciate that the author mentions often that narcissistic people are made in the image of God. He humanizes them. I think this is important because I believe there is a consensus among many that a narcissist can never change, but they can when the Lord reaches them. “If you will not hate them, then you will begin to see them... as human beings” it was so so refreshing to hear someone speak in terms of viewing the narcissist with compassion and love. To strive to not hate them, but love them. And to first start with self reflection and not only just an outward examination of others... because darkness lurks in all of us. This was the most important aspect in the whole book, in my opinion.
One thing it’s confirmed for me is that I have experienced the abuse of a narcissist in church and I am not crazy.
I also appreciate that the author mentions often that narcissistic people are made in the image of God. He humanizes them. I think this is important because I believe there is a consensus among many that a narcissist can never change, but they can when the Lord reaches them. “If you will not hate them, then you will begin to see them... as human beings” it was so so refreshing to hear someone speak in terms of viewing the narcissist with compassion and love. To strive to not hate them, but love them. And to first start with self reflection and not only just an outward examination of others... because darkness lurks in all of us. This was the most important aspect in the whole book, in my opinion.
August 15, 2021
This one was excellent. It prompted me to deeply reflect on the fingerprints of narcissistic behavior in myself, systems that I have been a part of, and experiences I have had. DeGroat writes in a way that is insightful, truthful, and generous. He is careful to highlight over and again that a person is never simply their diagnosis or their worst traits- there is so much pain and goodness beneath the surface.
This one is worth the time. I’m sure I’ll reread it in the not-so-distant future.
This one is worth the time. I’m sure I’ll reread it in the not-so-distant future.
March 1, 2021
Wise, winsome, hopeful. This is an important book for the church and for pastors.
March 7, 2022
Convicting, and kind. Maybe should be required reading for anyone in ministry - especially in America.
April 10, 2022
One of the most important books I’ve read - sobering and humble approach to NPD + the effect it has on the church.
July 31, 2023
Very interesting, well thought out book on the subject. While our church doesn't function or organized like the churches the writer works with, it was helpful to see how different types of narcissism affects our church. Made me do some self evaluating as well, which was interesting and not so fun.
August 27, 2023
I was not too interested in reading this book until it occurred to me that it would help me love my church. It jettisoned a narcissistic leader soon before we began attending, and I realized that understanding some of the dynamics my community experienced would help me love them better. I definitely gained that from reading this book. Based on extensive testimony, I could tell where the former priest* fit and the types of harm he left on the congregation.
Also, unexpectedly, DeGroat revealed a pattern of narcissistic behavior I am wounded by in my own life, which has led to some pondering. I also gained a clearer picture of the wounds carried by people with narcissistic tendencies, and how cycles of abuse are perpetuated through generations. DeGroat's theology is sound and he mines many periods in church history for wisdom and insight into the human soul.
Recommended to anyone in a church, especially those who catch a whiff of something that is not the odor of sanctity.
*His ordination was revoked for what Michael Card and John Michael Talbot call being a "pastor who pastures himself on his sheep."
Also, unexpectedly, DeGroat revealed a pattern of narcissistic behavior I am wounded by in my own life, which has led to some pondering. I also gained a clearer picture of the wounds carried by people with narcissistic tendencies, and how cycles of abuse are perpetuated through generations. DeGroat's theology is sound and he mines many periods in church history for wisdom and insight into the human soul.
Recommended to anyone in a church, especially those who catch a whiff of something that is not the odor of sanctity.
*His ordination was revoked for what Michael Card and John Michael Talbot call being a "pastor who pastures himself on his sheep."
November 12, 2022
This book isn’t scathing in any way. It isn’t a deep dive look at the dark underbelly of christian churches in the west, as I may have thought it would be when I started. It is a really honest, gracious, and hope-filled look at the reality of human fallibility in the church. DeGroat treats the victims of abuse within Christian spaces with utmost respect and honor. But he also manages to treat the abusers’ stories with the honor owed them as human beings. That’s a really tough balance to manage and I respect this book a lot for doing it.
March 5, 2024
This is a really important book. DeGroat holds the tension between dignity and truth so beautifully both in his teaching and his practice in helping others mine the depths of their shadows to understand their own tendencies and become aware of their defenses. I appreciate the author’s willingness to write about his process of understanding his own story and becoming aware of the ways he’s worked to cover shame. I appreciated the framework and path of healing he proposed for churches in the aftermath of being under a narcissistic leader or pastor. I’ll be reading again because there’s still so much to understand.
October 2, 2022
Enlightening, convicting, thoroughly research-based and yet profoundly biblical at its core message. Degroat's groundbreaking analysis is helpful for (1) recognizing where the reader is on the narcissism spectrum we all inhabit, (2) recognizing symptoms of narcissism in others, and (3) healing from experiences of narcissism in other persons and systems.
June 27, 2025
As you can tell by my recent reading, I am unwell.
BUT I am sorting and connecting dots and so thankful for the work of others that have looked at these topics head on before me.
I think this guy and I have very similar reading lists, I really enjoyed so many of his sources.
The enneagram section of this boon was especially helpful, as was his final chapter on hope for people remembering the imago dei in the face of abuse and harm.
BUT I am sorting and connecting dots and so thankful for the work of others that have looked at these topics head on before me.
I think this guy and I have very similar reading lists, I really enjoyed so many of his sources.
The enneagram section of this boon was especially helpful, as was his final chapter on hope for people remembering the imago dei in the face of abuse and harm.
did-not-finish
February 27, 2025Really good I just didn’t love the narrator and wasn’t in the headspace for nonfiction
January 16, 2022
Incredibly helpful.
February 7, 2020
An exploration of the effects of a person with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) when they have wielded significant influence in a church environment, and what to do about it.
The author has much experience working with those with NPD. He discusses what happens when narcissism enters a church environment; he explains what narcissism means, how it gets manifest, from where it comes, and whereas all of us have some level of narcissism, to be able to see the difference with someone with NPD and its effects. He explores narcissism in terms of each of the nine types in the Enneagram and how each type can manifest narcissistic tendencie. He describes the kinds of behaviors and the inner life of a pastor with NPD. He goes beyond people and sees how systems and cultures can manifest narcissism, normally in the wake of narcissists in positions of power. He addresses gaslighting and the power it has over those affected by it. He then sets forth how people can heal from experiences with NPD church authorities, and extends hope that some with NPD might be able to come to grips with the fear and insecurity haunting them and find health. The appendix features an Enneagram based way forward, giving strategies for assisting those with NPD in each type.
This is a hot button issue, and the book covers narcissism and its effects well. I think most would like to see or hope for more on the assistance and healing end of things, but that is likely not realistic.
A good resource for those in ministry.
**--galley received as part of early review program
The author has much experience working with those with NPD. He discusses what happens when narcissism enters a church environment; he explains what narcissism means, how it gets manifest, from where it comes, and whereas all of us have some level of narcissism, to be able to see the difference with someone with NPD and its effects. He explores narcissism in terms of each of the nine types in the Enneagram and how each type can manifest narcissistic tendencie. He describes the kinds of behaviors and the inner life of a pastor with NPD. He goes beyond people and sees how systems and cultures can manifest narcissism, normally in the wake of narcissists in positions of power. He addresses gaslighting and the power it has over those affected by it. He then sets forth how people can heal from experiences with NPD church authorities, and extends hope that some with NPD might be able to come to grips with the fear and insecurity haunting them and find health. The appendix features an Enneagram based way forward, giving strategies for assisting those with NPD in each type.
This is a hot button issue, and the book covers narcissism and its effects well. I think most would like to see or hope for more on the assistance and healing end of things, but that is likely not realistic.
A good resource for those in ministry.
**--galley received as part of early review program
January 5, 2022
"Late in The Culture Of Narcissism, Lasch defines narcissism as the 'longing to be freed from longing.' In other words, the narcissist cannot tolerate the limitations of his humanity. What Lasch seems to be saying is that narcissism is about control. It is a refusal to live within God-ordained limitations of creaturely existence" (4).
Narcissism has often been misdiagnosed: "Indeed, within churches a narcissist might even be described as charismatic, gifted, confident, smart, strategic, agile, and compelling" (6).
"Nowhere have I seen the narcissism-shame dynamic more pronounced than among church planters, some of whom have become megachurch pastors...narcissism in many young men in particular is baptized as spiritual giftedness in a way that does a great disservice to them and ignores deep wells of shame and fragility lurking within" (8).
"Dismantling the narcissistic false self is an active dying--dying to illusion, to control, and to fear. And it's also an act of resurrection--to truth, to vulnerability, to creativity, and to connection" (11).
"hiddenness is the breeding ground for narcissism" (16).
"Elevations on the narcissistic spectrum are coupled with testimonies that include fear of major failure (often moral failure), profound shame, and secret addictions. Hidden in the heart of these shepherds is profound shame. Power keeps the shame and fear at bay--at least for some time. The narcissistic mask is an armor of self-protection that both defends the fragile self within, but offends, oppresses, and alienates the other" (19-20).
"In too many post-denominational ministry networks today, where traditional ordination processes have been abandoned, young leaders are snatched up and deployed without proper training or soul formation, simply because they've been successful in other arenas" (21).
"If we are relatively healthy, we befriend our fear, our shame, and our deficiency, and slowly become an integrated person. If not, we flee from these emotions like threatening strangers, living instead from a contingent false self, polished and put together...narcissism is born in the soil of shame and self-contempt, not healthy self-love" (27).
"Why do Adam and Eve reach for the fruit? Perhaps they've already begun to believe the lie of toxic shame--that it's not enough, that they're not enough, and perhaps most important, they've started to doubt God's goodness as well...An addict may be loved deeply, but like Narcissus he is blind to it, trapped in a desperate cycle of attempted self-salvation" (42).
"Narcissists do not feel like the world is safe" (88).
"Unless we become conscious of our unconscious, the ignored shadow and all it contains rules our lives, stifles freedom, and emerges disruptively in our relationships with others" (91).
Why are we drawn to narcissistic pastors? "the very energy that so vigilantly guards and represses the shadow is the energy with which they project their larger-than-life, charismatic, driven persona onto the world...Their persona may even be interpreted as spiritual giftenness" (93).
"those who lack curiosity about themselves and remain largely out of touch with their feelings, needs, and unconscious motivations are most likely to project their hidden rage outwardly onto another" (95).
"A salvation prayer doesn't magically heal our shadow side" (96).
"The ancient imagery of shepherding is helpful--a shepherd wouldn't stay up all night watching every little movement of his sheep, but he would know his sheep so well that he could detect patterns, inconsistencies, or erratic behavior. Are we aware enough of ourselves and one another to do the same?" (98)
"Rigorous self-reflection is imperative for any system to change" (106).
"The narcissist develops the uncanny ability to make others feel crazy, uncertain, confused, insecure, and bewildered" (118).
"Trauma is not what happens to us, but what we hold inside in the absence of an empathetic witness" (Peter Levine).
"When pastors and churches deny the impact of emotional abuse, they retraumitize the victim" (124).
"Because we tend to implicitly trust church or pastoral authority, we often do not question experiences that may in fact be shaming or anxiety producing, or even violating" (126).
"Every healing journey begins with a recognition that life in the Egypt that enslaves us is no longer sustainable" (135).
Once you leave a narcissistic person or system, you "will likely experience the frightening backlash of the Pharaoh-like narcissist. Even even after we escape his immediate grip, the psychological grip remains...we may leave Egypt, but Egypt lives on in our traumatized psyches" (135-6).
"On the healing journey, it's important to take seriously how you've formed your identity in and through relationship with the narcissist, how this relationship came to enslave you, and how you are being called into a new freedom and identity...I'm reminded often how important it is for traumatized victims to hear a blessing" (135).
"The promised land isn't a magical place of perpetual cheer but a new space of inner freedom and relational flourishing" (137).
"I lament the reality that many of us, myself included, find ourselves too busy, too habituated to the demands of modern life, too out of touch with deeper emotions, to take our stories seriously and to embark on a healing journey...Indeed, many of us choose the predictable pain of our own Egypt over the risky, vulnerable path of the wilderness. This is why it's hard to go on this journey alone" (141-2).
"Someone who has been diagnosed as narcissistic is seen and known to his depths by a God who refuses to reduce anyone to a label, who both confronts sin with an utter seriousness and offers grace with utter lavishness" (149).
"Transformation requires a journey inward, down into the depths, where both demons and angels lurk. If I live naively unaware of my shadow side, I live disconnected from a vast storehouse of riches that can be discovered only when I befriend my shame, my loneliness, my disappointments, my addictive habits, my secret resentments, my hidden rage" (154).
"In the end, the hope of transformation is anchored in the presence of a God who is utterly familiar with all the dark and light within us--and is not afraid of it" (163).
Narcissism has often been misdiagnosed: "Indeed, within churches a narcissist might even be described as charismatic, gifted, confident, smart, strategic, agile, and compelling" (6).
"Nowhere have I seen the narcissism-shame dynamic more pronounced than among church planters, some of whom have become megachurch pastors...narcissism in many young men in particular is baptized as spiritual giftedness in a way that does a great disservice to them and ignores deep wells of shame and fragility lurking within" (8).
"Dismantling the narcissistic false self is an active dying--dying to illusion, to control, and to fear. And it's also an act of resurrection--to truth, to vulnerability, to creativity, and to connection" (11).
"hiddenness is the breeding ground for narcissism" (16).
"Elevations on the narcissistic spectrum are coupled with testimonies that include fear of major failure (often moral failure), profound shame, and secret addictions. Hidden in the heart of these shepherds is profound shame. Power keeps the shame and fear at bay--at least for some time. The narcissistic mask is an armor of self-protection that both defends the fragile self within, but offends, oppresses, and alienates the other" (19-20).
"In too many post-denominational ministry networks today, where traditional ordination processes have been abandoned, young leaders are snatched up and deployed without proper training or soul formation, simply because they've been successful in other arenas" (21).
"If we are relatively healthy, we befriend our fear, our shame, and our deficiency, and slowly become an integrated person. If not, we flee from these emotions like threatening strangers, living instead from a contingent false self, polished and put together...narcissism is born in the soil of shame and self-contempt, not healthy self-love" (27).
"Why do Adam and Eve reach for the fruit? Perhaps they've already begun to believe the lie of toxic shame--that it's not enough, that they're not enough, and perhaps most important, they've started to doubt God's goodness as well...An addict may be loved deeply, but like Narcissus he is blind to it, trapped in a desperate cycle of attempted self-salvation" (42).
"Narcissists do not feel like the world is safe" (88).
"Unless we become conscious of our unconscious, the ignored shadow and all it contains rules our lives, stifles freedom, and emerges disruptively in our relationships with others" (91).
Why are we drawn to narcissistic pastors? "the very energy that so vigilantly guards and represses the shadow is the energy with which they project their larger-than-life, charismatic, driven persona onto the world...Their persona may even be interpreted as spiritual giftenness" (93).
"those who lack curiosity about themselves and remain largely out of touch with their feelings, needs, and unconscious motivations are most likely to project their hidden rage outwardly onto another" (95).
"A salvation prayer doesn't magically heal our shadow side" (96).
"The ancient imagery of shepherding is helpful--a shepherd wouldn't stay up all night watching every little movement of his sheep, but he would know his sheep so well that he could detect patterns, inconsistencies, or erratic behavior. Are we aware enough of ourselves and one another to do the same?" (98)
"Rigorous self-reflection is imperative for any system to change" (106).
"The narcissist develops the uncanny ability to make others feel crazy, uncertain, confused, insecure, and bewildered" (118).
"Trauma is not what happens to us, but what we hold inside in the absence of an empathetic witness" (Peter Levine).
"When pastors and churches deny the impact of emotional abuse, they retraumitize the victim" (124).
"Because we tend to implicitly trust church or pastoral authority, we often do not question experiences that may in fact be shaming or anxiety producing, or even violating" (126).
"Every healing journey begins with a recognition that life in the Egypt that enslaves us is no longer sustainable" (135).
Once you leave a narcissistic person or system, you "will likely experience the frightening backlash of the Pharaoh-like narcissist. Even even after we escape his immediate grip, the psychological grip remains...we may leave Egypt, but Egypt lives on in our traumatized psyches" (135-6).
"On the healing journey, it's important to take seriously how you've formed your identity in and through relationship with the narcissist, how this relationship came to enslave you, and how you are being called into a new freedom and identity...I'm reminded often how important it is for traumatized victims to hear a blessing" (135).
"The promised land isn't a magical place of perpetual cheer but a new space of inner freedom and relational flourishing" (137).
"I lament the reality that many of us, myself included, find ourselves too busy, too habituated to the demands of modern life, too out of touch with deeper emotions, to take our stories seriously and to embark on a healing journey...Indeed, many of us choose the predictable pain of our own Egypt over the risky, vulnerable path of the wilderness. This is why it's hard to go on this journey alone" (141-2).
"Someone who has been diagnosed as narcissistic is seen and known to his depths by a God who refuses to reduce anyone to a label, who both confronts sin with an utter seriousness and offers grace with utter lavishness" (149).
"Transformation requires a journey inward, down into the depths, where both demons and angels lurk. If I live naively unaware of my shadow side, I live disconnected from a vast storehouse of riches that can be discovered only when I befriend my shame, my loneliness, my disappointments, my addictive habits, my secret resentments, my hidden rage" (154).
"In the end, the hope of transformation is anchored in the presence of a God who is utterly familiar with all the dark and light within us--and is not afraid of it" (163).
April 30, 2020
A tremendous, timely, beautifully-written resource. Though it is short, DeGroat truly teaches the reader about the full scope of narcissism, masterfully balancing clinical explanations with personal anecdotes. Some of the stories contained here made my blood boil, and made me incredibly sad. But DeGroat never riles up the reader so as to condemn those "other narcissists," rather, grace pours through his writing so as to empower the reader to look carefully at the narcissistic tendencies in himself.
This book is already getting much well-deserved attention. I highly commend it as a resource for any ministry leaders, church staff, or even simply concerned church members who wonder if they have ever felt the "bite" of a narcissistic leader. DeGroat will soothe your soul, convict you to healthy response, and give you hope for the future of the church in America. Highly, highly recommend this one!
This book is already getting much well-deserved attention. I highly commend it as a resource for any ministry leaders, church staff, or even simply concerned church members who wonder if they have ever felt the "bite" of a narcissistic leader. DeGroat will soothe your soul, convict you to healthy response, and give you hope for the future of the church in America. Highly, highly recommend this one!
April 12, 2023
I chose to read this book partly to help me understand some of the narcissistic leaders that I have worked with and even protected in the past. As I read through the pages it certainly helped in some of my own healing but I also recognized some of the narcissistic tendencies in my own life. I was reminded in the pages of this book that sin does not run through Us and them but many times right through the middle of me. As DeGroat says "I cannot live from this place of depth and union unless I'm willing to see myself clearly, to see the narcissist who lurks within me." I highly recommend this book for churches and church leaders as a way to help them see the brokenness in their own lives so they might find paths for healing.
June 2, 2021
A really important book for a spiritual disease that doesn’t appear to be going away. I appreciated DeGroat’s truth, clarity, nuance, and empathy. This should be assigned to anyone pursuing vocational ministry. That said, I felt most of the remedy offered was: get professional therapy. While I think there’s a ton there and wouldn’t want to minimize the importance of therapy, I wonder too if that’s somewhat reductionist.
Displaying 1 - 30 of 431 reviews