Great Lent: Journey to Pascha

by Alexander Schmemann

This revised edition of Father Alexander Schmemann's Lenten classic examines the meaning of Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts, the Prayer of St Ephraim the Syrian, the Canon of St Andrew of Crete and other neglected or misunderstood treasures of Lenten worship. Schmemann draws on the Church's sacramental and liturgical tradition to suggest the meaning of Lent in our life. The Lenten season is meant to kindle a 'bright sadness' within our hearts. Its aim is precisely the remembrance of Christ, a longing for a relationship with God that has been lost. Lent offers the time and place for recovery of this relationship. The darkness of Lent allows the flame of the Holy Spirit to burn within our hearts until we are led to the brilliance of the Resurrection.

Genres: Theology, Christianity, Religion, Christian, Nonfiction, Spirituality, Church

140 pages, Paperback

First published January 1, 1969

About the author

Protopresbyter Alexander Schmemann was a prominent Eastern Orthodox theologian and priest of the Orthodox Church in America.

Reviews

[Haley Baumeister · Rating 4 out of 5]

A helpful, beautiful primer from the Orthodox tradition, but beneficial for any Christian. As with For The Life Of The World, was amused by his friendly but matter of fact comments toward Western Christianity - whether Catholic or Protestant.

“As we make the first step into the "bright sadness" of Lent, we see—far, far away—the destination. It is the joy of Easter, it is the entrance into the glory of the Kingdom. And it is this vision, the foretaste of Easter, that makes Lent's sadness bright and our lenten effort a "spiritual spring." The night may be dark and long, but all along the way a mysterious and radiant dawn seems to shine on the horizon.”

“Thus on Easter we celebrate Christ’s Resurrection as something that happened and still happens to us. For each one of us received the gift of that new life and the power to accept it and to live by it. It is a gift which radically alters our attitude toward everything in this world, including death. It makes it possible for us joyfully to affirm: "Death is no more!" Oh, death is still there, to be sure and we still face it and someday it will come and take us. But it is our whole faith that by His own death Christ changed the very nature of death, made it a passage—a "passover," a "Pascha"—into the Kingdom of God, transforming the tragedy of tragedies into the ultimate victory. "Trampling down death by death," He made us partakes of His Resurrection. This is why at the end of the Paschal Matins we say: "Christ is risen and life reigneth! Christ is risen and not one dead remains in the grave!”

[M.G. Bianco · Rating 5 out of 5]

Fr. Alexander Schmemann is great, as usual. His explanation of Lent is, at times, tied directly to the liturgical practices during Lent of the Eastern Orthodox Church. These practices are historical and--liturgically--quite amazing. The explanation, though, is not without benefit to non-Eastern Orthodox Christians and Churches. There is much to glean from Fr. Schmemman's book on the penitential practices and aspects of Lent. There is also a great appendix at the end of the book on the Eucharist, or Lord's Supper, and what it means to take it worthily/unworthily--and what role, for an Eastern Orthodox Christian--the sacrament of penance would play in taking the Eucharist. Even there, there is much for non-Orthodox Christians to glean from his discussion.

Definitely a worthwhile read during this Lenten season, and probably re-reads in future Lenten seasons.

_________________________

Reread again in 2019. I see some things so much more clearly now, of course. Some things make more sense to me now, too, just by having been through more Lents and more services. This reading did inspire me to purchase the Lenten Triodion and the Triodion supplement, in order to better understand the theology of Lent and fasting through the reading of those hymns and prayers. If I learned nothing else from Great Lent (and I did learn much more), that was worth reading it for.

[7jane · Rating 4 out of 5]

I wanted to read about how the Ortodox people keep Lent – this book is especially about the 40-day lent (no meat, no dairy, no wine and no olive oil) they keep before Easter week. The author often wants to urge people not to backslide on this and have the right motivation, not just go through motions.

The time the book was written (1969) shows in the urging to take time off radio/tv – I wonder what he’d think of the media today. Also here appear now and then the contempt he feels towards Western churches; I don’t find similar in any Western side religious writing, apart from some remarks from Catholics of certain time for Lutherans, but that’s very minor and easy to miss.

However, I still found this book useful even if I don’t have any intention to becoming an Orthodox; a view on their Lent culture (and that the 40-day rule was finalized around 10th century). All the details on the spiritual sides of each part were interesting and the prayer etc. excerpts were beautiful. I guess this would inspire even the Western ones to take more interesting in fasting sometimes, fasting more. The attached part on Eucharist is also good.

So it’s a 3.5 book more than 4, one interesting view and worth it for me.

[Mimi · Rating 5 out of 5]

This read a bit quicker than I expected, so instead of reading at the beginning of Lent, I ended up finishing up right before going into Lent. However, it is good to orient oneself towards the fast with such wise words echoing in your brain, almost as much as it is to start Lent whilst reading.

[Carol Bakker]

In my Christian life, I do not observe Lent, although I attend Good Friday services and sing my lungs out in the joy and triumph of Easter Sunday.

When dear friends, my beloved Latin teacher (a retired classics prof) and his wife (a retired Anglican Rector), enthusiastically told me of their conversion to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, I asked for one book to read to better understand the big O. Without hesitating Bernie replied, Great Lent.

I found Schmemann's writing very foreign. Very other. So different that it was hard to grasp. I would read the beginning of a sentence aloud and ask my husband how he would complete it, e.g. The positive [virtue] counterpart to sloth is ____. We both bombed those quizzes.

However, I was intrigued with psalms and fasting, two important pieces of my life right now. The Orthodox chant through the complete Psalter twice each week (!) during Lent. Schmemann called the psalms a verbal icon of Christ. I regularly fast for health reasons, but have been wanting to delve deeper into the spiritual aspect of fasting. His thoughts were helpful. There was much to ponder.

What struck me how differently Protestants and Orthodox view authority. My husband's question was Where, in the Bible, are we told to observe Lent?* I don't discount the reverence my Orthodox friends have for Scripture, but there were more references to The Church, The Fathers, and Tradition.

Some quotes:

The basic disease is sloth. It is that strange laziness and passivity of our entire being which always pushes us "down" rather than "up" — which constantly convinces us that no change is possible and therefore desirable. It is in fact a deeply rooted cynicism which to every spiritual challenge responds "what for?" and makes our life one tremendous spiritual waste. It is the root of all sin because it poisons the spiritual energy at its very source.

If Christ Himself was tempted while fasting,
we have not a singe chance of avoiding that temptation.

* But we're inconsistent, because we do observe Advent!

[mRizk · Rating 4 out of 5]

A must-read, especially for a sense of the wonderful Lenten atmosphere, specifically within Eastern Orthodoxy. It sets the tone to approaching the Great Fast.

[Austin Spence · Rating 4 out of 5]

I was looking for more topical musings on lent rather than a devotional, so this scratched the itch well. This refocused my attention on the preparation of lent and need for bread.

However, at times it morphed into sacramental/ liturgical musings that clergy might find more interesting, yet I found amusing at best.

[Monique Mathiesen · Rating 4 out of 5]

The last part on penance was confusing, but the rest of the book was really helpful in understanding the purpose and meaning of this Lenten season. May God bless our struggle and may we hunger for Him.

[Ruci Tukana · Rating 5 out of 5]

As we commemorate the Lent Seasonfor 2020, let's offer the lives of the Coronavirus victims to the Lord and seek Divine Intervention!

[Benjamin Stahl · Rating 3 out of 5]

A useful reflection upon and guide through the Lenten period predating Easter, told from an Eastern Orthodox perspective, this book might not be for everyone, nor even all Christians, but it does contain a good amount for spiritual benefit during this holy season.

[Gregory · Rating 5 out of 5]

This is another liturgical classic from Alexander Schmemann. He helpfully explains the principles behind the development of the Orthodox Church Year, and shows how all of our worship leads up to Easter. You don't have to be Orthodox to profit from this book, as Schmemann is generous with criticisms of his own tradition, as well as the Western tradition. He closes with practical observations on how to focus on God in the midst of busy, frentic, and secular life-style. This is the main point of the book--how to bring every area of our lives under the Lordship of Christ. At times, Schmemann sounds quite Reformed ... or is this just basic Christianity?

[Steven Roberts · Rating 5 out of 5]

I read this every year and glean something different each time. A masterpiece.

[Diego Alvarado · Rating 5 out of 5]

I was recommended this book by a spiritual father. Before reading, I had not a single ounce of knowledge of what Lent was. I just picked it up and began to read.

The first thing I noticed was that this book not only provides an excellent explanation and walkthrough of Lent but also of Christian asceticism and traditions.

Alexander Schmemann walks the reader through the liturgy and a variety of sacraments and provides the meaning behind them (as well as Lent). I deeply appreciated his modern critique of secularism and how this has infected not only the church and its sacraments but spirituality and mysticism as a whole. He provides valuable insights on how secularism and rationalism are limited, especially regarding the liturgy and sacraments, which has deeply helped my doubts and questions regarding them.

Furthermore, this book does a spectacular job with definitions and answering questions. What does it mean to fast? What is the Eucharist, actually? What is communion, and why is it important? What is repentance and why repent?

All these questions are precisely answered in this book without a sense of bias or means to control. All while simultaneously learning about the tradition of Lent.

Overall, I left this book having learned a great amount about these Christian traditions, why they exist, how they are important, and how their meanings are being lost and confused in modern times. The book is filled with an abundance of quotes from early church fathers, saints, the Bible, and liturgical hymns and songs, which provide deep insights, clarity, and a greater connection to the Christian Orthodox religion.

[Dave Babler · Rating 4 out of 5]

Written with a pretty strong Orthodox bent, Great Lent provides the would be Lent practitioner with a beautifully constructed lens by which to view his journey. While some Christians in the western tradition may find it a challenge to connect with its content, that has little to do with Schmeman’s eloquence and more to do with cultural disconnect. But even in light of some of these difficulties, there are moments where his orthodox sensibilities offer new and enriching ways of understanding the Lenten season.

This book was certainly written with a particular audience in mind, but there is most certainly something in this book for anyone who celebrates the journey from Ash Wednesday to Easter Sunday.

[Matthew · Rating 4 out of 5]

Interspersed among the minutiae of Orthodox Lenten liturgies are some very good discussions of repentance, fasting and Christian observance of Saturday (the original sabbath), but for non-Orthodox readers there is a lot of liturgical discussion that has no direct application.

Appended to his discussion of Lent, Schmemann placed an essay on receiving communion - which despite his tendency to blame Orthodox problems on Catholic influence - is quite interesting and helpful. He goes astray, I think, when he appears to limit the proper place of sacramental confession to a readmission of the excommunicate (a group he appears to define very broadly). Schmemann's discussion of confession, excommunication and mortal sin is unclear and confused.

[Santi Ruiz · Rating 3 out of 5]

Interesting look at Orthodox Lenten practice, but caught a little between styles. Parts are pitched to relative newcomers, while others go deep into the weeds on liturgical details, and its not clear who the end result is for. Short, worth skimming.

"In Christ, all of life, all of time, history, the cosmos itself have become expectation, preparation, hope, ascension."

[Aubriella · Rating 5 out of 5]

WOW! This book really helped me have a deeper understanding of the rich lenten services. And just how to keep lent throughout daily life.

[CN · Rating 5 out of 5]

Well, that was a good start to Lent…punchy, direct, very different spirituality than I am used to but so well explained.

[Der Komitas]

I would like to find this book in Armenian translation. any help. thank you

[Eric · Rating 4 out of 5]

I think the value of this book for me will increase over time, when I reread it as my knowledge and practice of lent develop.
For a neophyte, it was instructive in describing the prelenten services and the Presanctified Liturgy, though some of it was confusing and certainly went over my head.
Much of the book seemed to be corrective in regards to the attitude of contemporary Orthodox attitudes and practice. While I think some things have changed from his time, much has also remained the same, and the pitfalls he is addressing are often the same that people reject formal Christianity in fear of.
The book is instructive not only in the ins and outs of Lent but also more specifically on the practice of confession, the two types of fasting, and the reasons for communion.
"Man does not live by bread alone." Without material bread he shall surely starve, but with it he shall eventually die, as well.

[Trevor · Rating 3 out of 5]

An appropriate read, considering today marks the beginning of the season of Lent.

The book could be separated into three "sections": the first is the longest and describes the history and activity of the season of Lent in the Church, the second quickly describes practical ways Christians can practice Lent in their lives, and the third is an appendix dealing with the Eucharist.

The entire book is related to the specifically Orthodox understanding and practice of this season, but nonetheless has many valuable insights for any Christian within any tradition that seeks to live in and experience Lent in the fullest manner—as a preparation of mind, body, and soul for the celebration of Easter.

While it might not be "worth" reading in its entirety for people not interested in the Orthodox tradition, Chapter 5—"Lent in Our Life"—I would consider valuable insight for any believer.

[Samantha (AK) · Rating 4 out of 5]

I feel like "short but dense" is a good descriptor, here. This is one of those recommended books that shows up over and over again on Lenten reading lists, and its easy to see why.

Originally published in 1969, the content remains relevant to the reader of today. Starting with the theological significance of the Sundays before Lent, highlighting the major features of the season itself, and wrapping up with what it means to "take Lent seriously" in an age filled with noise, Fr. Schmemann is a stern but patient writer. Of particular interest was his reaction to the onset of the information age and its implications for people seeking quiet reflection--I can only imagine what he might say now!

Will certainly end up rereading.

[Полиграф · Rating 4 out of 5]

This book is very readable, but it contains so much to ponder that it is definitely a candidate for multiple re-readings. Reading it during the weeks leading up to Lent seems the most logical, as one can then experience first-hand what Schmemann is writing about.

For those who are non-Orthodox but are interested in Orthodoxy, this book actually wouldn't be a bad place to start. There is a tremendous amount of information contained in these pages, both historical and theological. For those wondering what the purpose of things like a Church calendar or various liturgies are, Schmeman shows how all those things are in fact highly developed tools to help us in our spiritual endeavors.

[Christine Sunderland · Rating 4 out of 5]

Alexander Schmemann's work always has miracles within it. This was no exception. The first chapters were excellent examinations of Lent and how to approach it, although dealing with the unique Eastern Orthodox Liturgy. Not as broad based as some of his other works. Still, Father Schmemann is a gifted writer who explains the sacramental nature of the world with great insight and love, not to say joy.

[Yanni · Rating 4 out of 5]

Alexander Schmemann is a fine theologian - what a privilege I had to read this during Great Lent! He so clearly outlines the secular way of life to the sacramental living in Orthodox life - although he apparently says far more about this in "for the life of the world" I greatly look forward to reading this!

[Adam DeVille, Ph.D. · Rating 5 out of 5]

My favorite of all Schmemann's books--here he is at his most lyrical and insightful, indeed joyful.

[Rachael W · Rating 4 out of 5]

Very good book, especially at the beginning. I would suggest it as a must read Lenten book. Actually, I’d advise to read it prior to Lent as it will prepare you to participate in Lent more fully.

Some quotes from the book:


* But it is our whole faith that by his own death Christ changed the very nature of death, made it a passage - a ‘passover,’ a ‘pascha’- into the Kingdom of God, transferring the tragedy of tragedies into the ultimate victory.” (P. 12)
* “Indeed, we live as if he never came. This is the only real sin, the sin of all sins, the bottomless sadness and tragedy of our nominal Christianity.” (13)
* “Therefore Easter is our return every year to our Baptism, whereas Lent is our preparation for that return.” (14)
* “ For, indeed, what is love if not that mysterious power which transcends the accidental an external in the “other“ - his physical appearance, social rank, ethnic origin, intellectual capacity - And reaches the soul, the unique and uniquely personal “root” of a human being, truly the part of him and God?” (25)
* “Christianity cares little about the problematic future but puts the whole emphasis on the now - the only decisive time for love.” (26)
* “Let us stress once more that the purpose of Lent is not to force on us a few formal obligations, but to “soften” our heart so that it may open itself to the realities of the spirit, to experience the hidden “thirst and hunger” for communion with God.” (31)
* “ What at first appeared as monotony now is revealed as Peace; what sounded like sadness is now experience as the very first movements of the soul recovering its lost depth.” (33)
* “ The basic disease is sloth. It is that strange laziness and passivity of our entire being which always pushes us down rather than up - which constantly convinces us the no change is possible and therefore desirable. It is in fact a deeply rooted cynicism which to every spiritual challenge responds “what for?“ And makes our life one tremendous spiritual waste. It is the root of all sin because it poisons the spiritual energy and its very source.” (34)
* “ A wall created beings, man alone has been in doubt with the gift of speech. All father see it as a very seal of the divine image in man because God himself is revealed as the Word.” (35)
* “ Humility alone is capable of truth, of seeing and accepting things as they are and therefore of seeing God‘s majesty and goodness and love and everything.“ (36)
* “Christian asceticism is a fight, not against but for the body. For this reason the whole man-soul and body-repents. The body participates in a prayer of the soul just as the soul prays through and in the body. Prostrations, the “psycho-somatic” sign of repentance and humility, of adoration and obedience are thus the Lenten rite par excellence.” (38)
* “ If the Bible contains the divine revelation to men, it is also man’s inspired response to that revelation and thus the pattern and the content of man’s prayer, praise, and adoration.” (38)
* "The Martyrs are our companions, our inspirations during Lent which is our fight for the divine, the heavenly, and the eternal in us." (44)
* “It is first of all the sacrament of Christ’s coming and presence among his disciples, and therefore the celebration- in a very real sense- of his resurrection. Indeed it is the coming and presence of Christ at the Eucharist that is for the Church the “proof” of his resurrection.” (46)
* The Lenten Purpose: a spiritual journey that transfers us from one spiritual state to another. (63)
* “The events of sacred history are revealed as events in my life, Gods acts in the past as acts aimed at me and my salvation, the tragedy of sin and betrayal as my personal tragedy. My life is shown to me as part of the great and all-embracing fight between God and the powers of darkness which rebel against Him.” (64)
* We do not have "repentance as the shock of man who, seeing in himself the "image of the ineffable glory," realizes that he has defiled, betrayed, and rejected it in his life; repentance as regret coming from the ultimate depth of man's conscience; as the desire to return; as surrender to God's love and mercy." (65)
* "...sin is first of all the rejection of life as offering or sacrifice to God, or in other terms, of the divine orientation of life." (67)
* "He [Christ] entered life in time so that so that life and time may become the passage, the Passover into God's Kingdom." (69)
* "His Incarnation, Death, and Resurrection are the fulfillment of creation in which God rejoiced at the beginning." (69)
* “For it is always easier to reduce something spiritual to something formal rather than search for the spiritual behind the formal.” (88)
* "[Fasting] is connected with the very mystery of life and death, of salvation and damnation." (94)

[Carter Tate · Rating 5 out of 5]

This May will mark my first year of participation in the life of an Anglican church. I've found the liturgy and engagement with the full history of the church (beyond just the life of Protestantism) to be a powerful blessing. I've felt my appreciation for the church, gospel, and the depth of love of Christ deepen immensely in that time. As the chronology would indicate, this means that at this point, I have yet to participate in a full year of the liturgical calendar and thus missed the capstone of the year, Lent and Easter. Being only vaguely familiar with Lent as a time of fasting and penitence, I wanted to deepen my understanding and appreciation of the season well in advance of Ash Wednesday, and thanks to Goodreads recommendations related to my prior exposure to Schmemann's For the Life of the World, I discovered Great Lent. As with other books I've reviewed recently, assigning a star rating feels criminally reductive, so, I have assigned 5 stars not as a measure of its relative quality but instead as an indicator of its importance for Lent initiates, and likely, though I cannot say from my own experience, for lifelong Lent-ers as well.

Schmemann writes this "essay" on Lent from a deep expertise in the liturgical life of the Orthodox Church. I found the most potent aspect of his engagement with that tradition to be the strenuousness of Lent into which he invites the reader. He demonstrates that Lent is not a time for personal piety and personal betterment but instead of spiritual transformation deeply rooted in the life of the church - and for him this means not just fasting on our own and Sunday worship but regular participation in the weekday liturgies of the church and intentional engagement of its wisdom. For if our only exposure to the life of the church during Lent is the feast day of Sunday, we will miss entirely the "bright sadness", the deep longing and expectation and lack that is so profoundly interwoven into the prayers and hymns of the non-Eucharistic liturgies.

Schmemann has an incredible command of language and words, and that skill is on powerful display in this book. Like the prose of Walter Brueggemann, I am struck by the way his words jump off the 2-dimensional page and take shape with depth and width. When he talks about transformation, it doesn't just mean changing from one thing into another, it carries a weight of transcendence, of supernature. He paints a vivid picture of participation not just in community that "helps" or in moral codes that earn us some kind of imputed right-standing but in the very life of God. In this book, he demonstrates that Lent is not just a rote time of obligation fulfillment, not just community participation, not just repentance. It is all of those things and more. It is an opportunity to step into the very life of Christ. An opportunity to reenact it, to accept it into our lives, our minds, and to allow it to become the very essence of our being.

[Saint Katherine BookstoreVA]

GROWING UP SOUTHERN BAPTIST, there was little in that assembly that offered me any sense of a seasonal rhythm in worship. While there were no holy days beyond Christmas and Easter and no penitential fast periods, there was however one constant: the annual Revival week. The church would typically invite a guest preacher noted for the strength of his delivery. The highlight of each nightly service would be his emotional and (hopefully) motivational sermon, which usually increased in fervor every evening. Every sermon was capped by the “altar call,” when the preacher would invite you to publicly confess Jesus as your Lord and Savior by leaving your seat and walking
down to the front of the assembly.

Fast forward now to my life within the ancient Eastern Christian tradition. Jesus is still my Savior, I still make my Confession in the presence of others, but now my Church offers me a rich sequence of themed seasons and feast days, the depths of grace promised therein I have only begun to embrace. And at this time, in one of her supreme blessings, the Church offers me Great Lent—not a week, but a full forty days of renewal that I so earnestly need each year.

This year, as I once more picked up Great Lent: Journey to Pascha, it struck me that the book functions for me as compass and travel guide. As noted in the title, Fr. Alexander sees our lives as pilgrimages back to God and Lent as the road by which we return from our self-imposed
exile in the world to our home in Christ. Without Great Lent, my ability to understand and refresh myself for meeting the Lord in his Resurrection would be impoverished.

Great Lent invites me to enter into this season’s spirit, a “sad brightness” as Fr. Alexander so beautifully puts it. He gracefully reminds (and gently corrects) me that Lent shouldn’t be experienced negatively, that it’s not about “giving up” and “fasting from.” Yes, I should do those
things, but only from a desire for balance and reconciliation, in anticipation of the joy of reclaiming my true life as an adopted child of God from the clutches of my worldly and frantic lifestyle.

I always benefit from Fr. Alexander reminding me of the rich themes of the Saturdays and Sunday of Lent, starting as early as Zacchaeus Sunday. He succinctly opens up the depths of the Pre-sanctified Liturgy and the special Lenten readings. In simplicity and power, he tells me how
I might take Lent seriously (and joyfully) in my life. He reminds me to be in Church to hear the words and to be open to understanding, as the Holy Spirit fills Lenten worship with both the repentance and the joyful reunification experienced by the Prodigal as he returned to his place in
his Father’s house.

[Readius Maximus · Rating 5 out of 5]

A good read right before Lent. Schmemann talks about the Sundays leading up to Lent as preparing us slow and sinful people to begin turning away from the world and begin refocusing on Christ. Lent itself is a joyful darkness in preparation for the main event of the liturgical cycle which is Christs passion and resurrection. The whole year is organized around this one event. Nominal Orthodox see Lent in terms of the harsh diet and negative restrictions you have to observe. But it's actually a joyful time as we turn away from the world and strive towards returning to the Garden of which we lost when Adam broke his fast. It's a hard but joyful time.

In the main text and the appendix he talks a lot about the struggles of Orthodoxy in America during the time of writing in 1970. Maybe my Parish is blessed but even Frank Shaeffer in the 90s seemed to talk very differently about Orthodoxy then Schmemann does in 1971. I take it Schmemann won the controversy over the nominal view of the fast and communion. I guess many people at this time only took communion once a year at Easter and thus didn't confess regularly either. I am thankful for the changes that have been made!!

Schmemann is definitely a scholar for he does not just confine himself to liturgical and theological issues he also has some very keen insight into secular culture. He observes that the religious worldview in the west has been replaced by the secular world view which affects even religious people. Religion is a helper or tool in order to support other secular desires. I was very convicted by this as that had very much been my view. This is why at our parish me and my fellow catechumens are going through a lot of changes as we aren't just trading one set of beliefs for another. Orthodoxy impacts everything and your relation to everything changes when you become Orthodox. It is an entirely different way of life then I had ever known before. I think this is because we are not just setting aside our previous religious beliefs but also changing out our worldview from a secular world view focused on this world verses a religious world view. Protestants who are reading this probably think I am over stating things and find these words insulting but unfortunately you don't know till you know. You would probably have to become Orthodox to get it.