1636: The China Venture

1632 Universe/Ring of Fire #33

by Eric Flint, Iver P. Cooper

The Ring of Fire Series Continues! The United States of Europe finds itself embroiled in international intrigue, as the uptimers attempt to establish an embassy in Ming Dynasty era China.

The newly formed United States of Europe, created by an alliance between the time-displaced Americans from the town of Grantville and the Swedish king Gustavus Adolphus, decides to send an embassy to the Chinese empire. One of the main purposes of the embassy is to establish trade in order to gain access to critical resources. The mission is a gamble—some might say, a long shot. The Ming dynasty is on the verge of collapse and China’s rulers are suspicious of foreigners.

The mission experiences one setback after another, but presses on. And they gain an important ally along the way: Zheng Zhilong, a former pirate now an admiral for the Ming navy and the head of an extremely wealthy Fujian province trading family. He knows through his Jesuit missionary connections that according to Grantville's history books, the Ming dynasty is in danger, from famines, bandit armies and barbarian invaders. And he is determined that, one way or another, he and his family will survive and even prosper.

The embassy is joined as well by a young scholar, who helps them make inroads into China’s complex and often dangerous society. Can the up-timers and their friends persuade the imperial dynasty and its mandarins to establish trade and diplomatic relations with the USE? They have one great asset: their knowledge may be the key to saving China from decades of mass suffering and civil war.

At the publisher's request, this title is sold without DRM (Digital Rights Management).

About 1636: Seas of Fortune by Iver Cooper:
". . . expand[s] the Ring of Fire universe into new or previously limited geography and culture. 'Stretching Out' includes seven excellent entries mostly in South America and the Caribbean built on real events but with a nice Grantville twist. 'Rising Sun' contains five terrific tales ... also built on real events enhanced by historical speculation but with a nice Grantville twist."—Alternate Worlds

About 1635: A Parcel of Rogues:
"The 20th volume in this popular, fast-paced alternative history series follows close on the heels of the events in The Baltic War, picking up with the protagonists in London, including sharpshooter Julie Sims. This time the 20th-century transplants are determined to prevent the rise of Oliver Cromwell and even have the support of King Charles."—Library Journal

About 1634: The Galileo Affair:
"A rich, complex alternate history with great characters and vivid action. A great read and an excellent book."—David Drake

"Gripping . . . depicted with power!"—Publishers Weekly

About Eric Flint's Ring of Fire series:
“This alternate history series is . . . a landmark…”—Booklist

“[Eric] Flint's 1632 universe seems to be inspiring a whole new crop of gifted alternate historians.”—Booklist

“ . . . reads like a technothriller set in the age of the Medicis . . . ”—Publishers Weekly

Genres: Alternate History, Time Travel, China, Fiction, Historical Fiction, Science Fiction, Historical

464 pages, Kindle Edition

First published September 3, 2019

About the author

Eric Flint was a New York Times bestselling American author, editor, and e-publisher. The majority of his main works were alternate history science fiction, but he also wrote humorous fantasy adventures.

Reviews

[Redsteve · Rating 3 out of 5]

While enjoyable, this one seemed kind of formulaic by the standards of the seriesl. This installment begins another region in the post-Ring of Fire 17th Century world. Interesting but it didn't grab me as did the ones set in Russia (1636: Kremlin Games and 1637: Volga Rules) or India (1637: Mission to the Mughals).

[John · Rating 2 out of 5]

more of a text book than a novel

I managed to read about two thirds of this book without finding any trace of a plot. The characters were completely one dimensional and difficult to follow. Far too much space was taken up with massive amounts of technical data concerning ballooning, glass manufacture, artillery techniques etc. All in all a big disappointment.

[James · Rating 3 out of 5]

This book has one of the historic Ming dynasty upper class courtesans as a character, first time I've seen one used in fiction. They were highly educated, famous for their skill in poetry and the arts as well as some being trained in various aspects of warfare. Several were noted fencers and archers and familiar with the military classics. They were much freer than their respectably married counterparts, but paid for this freedom by owing large sums to their madams and generally unable to marry because of the social stigma attached their profession. You can have a female badass warrior interacting with males and its perfectly historical.

One possible downside to this book is its constant nattering about technology. I enjoy this type of information, but even I found it excessive at times. Otherwise, an unusual read about historical Ming China during its collapse, I enjoyed it.

A couple of good fantasies about Chinese dynastic ends are: Guy Gavriel Kay's Under Heaven and River of Stars.

[Kathleen · Rating 2 out of 5]

Below Average offering in Grantville history - author spent too much time on describing various items then on developing characters and moving plot along. Left it open for follow-up on visit to Imperial Court - - expanded short story from Gazette that was padded into a novel

[Truls Ljungström · Rating 5 out of 5]

Mycket trevlig historia som kombinerar tre genrer. Ramberättelsen är ett handelsäventyr; de i tiden tillbakakastade Wvirginianerna vill importera tungsten m.m. från Kina. Inom den berättelsen finns det en romantisk historia om en av de handlande som vill gifta sig, och hittar till den relationsgrunden, samt en äventyrshistoria om försöken att sälja kanoner till kejsaren, vilket bara delvis lyckas, och då endast efter att de använts för att krossa ett uppror. Jag rekommenderar den till alla genrenördar; precis som de flesta volymerna i 163x-serien så kombinerar den en känsla av de stora berättelserna, med smådetaljer och scener som gör det njutbart att förvilla sig in i deras värld.

[Debrac2014 · Rating 4 out of 5]

Good story with B list characters from Grantville. A 4 star rating for that last battle in Tongcheng!

[chvang · Rating 2 out of 5]

The dialogue is paragraphs-long exposition. Makes for tedious reading.

[Magnús Friðriksson · Rating 4 out of 5]

This is quite an entertaining book, but does nothing to push the main plot forward. To be fair, this should have been serialized in the Grantville Gazette instead of becoming a full fletched book, hardcover bound to boot. The Main Plot line of the entire Ring of Fire series must start to unfold at a much faster pace. Eric has become stuck in details in the personal lives of way too many of the characters in his series and somehow the progression of the story itself has suffered for it.

But... putting my growing disgruntlement with the slow pace of the RoF, this particular book by Eric and Iver P. Cooper is quite entertaining and well worth the read.

[Maurynne Maxwell · Rating 2 out of 5]

Love the series but this should not have been published as is--I am so glad I got it from the library and did not pay to be bored. So many details of the tech interspersed with random character vignettes, most of which are clunky and do not move this story or the overall one forward very much at all. This should have remained a short story or been published by Ring of Fire. All it does is make one hope that the real action will take place in the next book.

[Michael Brown · Rating 2 out of 5]

but there are way too many loose ends right now. Too many story plots are just hanging in limbo while new areas - like this trip to China - keep getting added. Everything is set up for the next book but we almost never get a full story. A good marketing ploy but very annoying.

[Stephen Maguire · Rating 2 out of 5]

Boring.

[Karl Smithe · Rating 2 out of 5]

This story has far too many infodumps and not smoothly integrated with the dialogue. It it very annoying.

[Alice · Rating 3 out of 5]

An average 1630 story. Author spends way to much time explaining all the gadgets used and giving detailed histories of characters to make a particularly interesting plot

[Alex Shrugged · Rating 4 out of 5]

This is yet another entry in the alternate history series beginning with "1632". This story is very good and only falls short of great because it doesn't involve the main characters of the series. These are relatively minor series characters given a major role in exploring merchant ties with China in 1636.

The story: Frankly, the uptimers would like to keep the Ming Dynasty on the throne in China and avoid the massive detour that China is going to take in a few more years. To help China, the uptimers are going to have to meet the Emperor, so as a first step Grantville is sending an ambassador to China as well as delegates attempting to sell the Chinese some goods and military supplies in exchange for valuable minerals such as molybdenum, graphite, tungsten, and other metals that they have in abundance. A love story also develops between Mike Song (a Taiwanese uptimer) and a downtimer high-ranking Chinese courtesan (that means a prostitute... but a high ranking one :-) ). In her profession she has met many influential people. (I'll bet she has.) She acts as a back-channel go-between to help the uptimers establish business relations. As far as the other "relations" are concerned, she is rich, but not rich enough to buy out her own contract, but perhaps her new uptimer boyfriend, Mike Song, can do it? Not likely, but maybe.

Any problems with this story? A lot of the names and places were Chinese and therefore unfamiliar to an American. In the audiobook version (which I listened to) the Chinese names were not pronounced correctly. I've had a class in Mandarin long ago. I know how Chinese is supposed to sound. This was not it, but for American ears, it should be sufficient and will not confuse the listener.

The other problem is that one of the characters was named Mike (Mike Song) which suggested the main character Mike Sterns only it wasn't Mike Sterns. So every time Mike Song's name came up in the story as "Mike", I had to think, "Not the real Mike, the OTHER Mike".

I noticed in the reviews that some people complained about the needlessly detailed explanations on how gunpowder works and the difference between matchlocks and flintlocks, etc. Keep in mind that Eric Flint and David Weber have co-authored each other's books. David Weber tends to explain a lot of how things work. This is especially true of Weber's Safehold series beginning with "Off Armageddon Reef". This seems to have rubbed off on the 1632 series, especially in this China sub-series. I like it, but it is a matter of taste.

Any modesty issues? Well... one of the main characters in this story is a prostitute. That subject is discussed although not in detail. The subject does present itself frequently, such as discussing whether such a woman would be accepted in Grantville if Mike Song brought her back as his wife. Then, of course, the Vietnamese woman (Frank Jackson's wife, Diane) was brought up. She was accepted in Grantville (See the first book in the series "1632") even though her past was a little dubious.

Here is the quote from 1632. It is Frank talking about his wife, Diane: "Yeah, Quentin, I'm curious. Did you think I met her at a gala reception at the embassy? Me in my swank uniform and her wearing a slinky evening gown imported from Paris? Did you think she was some kind of Vietnamese princess."

What was implied in the quote from "1632" was that Diane Jackson was anything BUT a Vietnamese princess and very likely a prostitute. Although no one said it in the book, it was clear enough, but her actions since marrying Frank Jackson made her an accepted part of Grantville.

Most of the book was about buying and selling and explaining how the Chinese way of doing things needed improving... without hurting their feelings. Most of the action was near the end and it was pretty good action.

The ending was satisfying... for now. I'll be waiting for the sequel.

I'd read this book again.

[Daniel Shellenbarger · Rating 3 out of 5]

I enjoyed it fairly well, the characters are likeable, and it has interesting subject matter, but the big downside is that this is half a novel in terms of plot development and there's a bit of been-there done-that in terms of story since the basic driving force is the attempts by envoys of the United States of Europe to get the emperor of China to give them trading status, which is very much like the basic plot of 1636: The Mughal Mission. I would actually say it's more of a 7/10 in terms of rating but I couldn't bring myself to 4/5 so I gave it 3 stars. I will say that I felt like this was a dramatic improvement over Mr. Cooper's previous Ring of Fire book, 1636: Seas of Fortune, which had a lot of rushed developments and WAY too many characters, not to mention that it was actually two novellas that only vaguely had anything to do with each other (they were both set in the western hemisphere and both ended ~1636) spliced together. It's notable that this book is not a direct sequel to that, though it does build somewhat on one of the events of that book, the Japanese conquest of Manila, which I thought that Iver Cooper did a good job of explaining here in terms that made it seem much more reasonable a development.

As for story, in the 1630's China was in a very weird place. Although it was still one of the world's largest, most prosperous, and most stable nations on the outside, on the inside it was fraught with problems (increasingly ponderous bureaucracy, imposed cultural/technological inertia, power struggles between elements of the Imperial court, perennial droughts leading to widespread famine, inability to pay the army regularly leading to widespread desertion and the growth of bandit armies into serious threats to the nation, and the growing unity and military sophistication of the Jurchen of Manchuria) that were about to spin out of control leading to the collapse of the Han Ming Dynasty and the rise of the Manchu Qing Dynasty. Despite the fact that the up-timers know just how badly China is about to come apart at the seems and the fact that they may be too late to do much about it (China's crop failures were mostly the result of the global cooling trend at that time (the Little Ice Age), for instance, not something that foreknowledge can change much (outside of providing impetus for external trade)), they also know that China is the pretty much the only place where large quantities of certain necessary industrial materials (like Tungsten) can be obtained in quantity and where there's the infrastructure in place to make mining possible (without a major colonial effort), so to China the up-timers must go! However, just because you WANT to trade with 17th century China and have knowledge and technology they could use, doesn't mean that 17th century China will treat you like anything other than uncivilized barbarians, and this is the core of the story, figuring out a way to be taken seriously and given an audience with the Emperor while also gauging whether it would be possible to actually obtain the resources that the USE needs and whether there's any chance of keeping the Ming Dynasty from imploding. Fortunately for the small team of up-timers and attached Dutch/German diplomats, merchants, artists, scientists, they make an ally in the form of Admiral Zheng, a man who is that rarest of 17th century Chinese elites, one who realizes that the world doesn't end at China's borders. With Zheng's support, the up-timers are at least given a chance to make an impression, and that's pretty much the book: they go to China, they make friends, they exhibit their technology and knowledge, and when more desperate events occur, they pitch in. As I said before, it's fairly interesting, but frankly that's as far as it goes, this isn't exactly a gripping page turner, and it's not likely to appeal to you unless you're a pretty hard-core Ring of Fire nut (like me). That said, I will be interested if it gets a sequel, as I felt this book laid the groundwork for a much bigger and more interesting story, but it just never quite gets there. So we'll see. I will also say that i thought Cooper and Flint did a good job with their depiction of 17th century China, which is a very strange place from a Western perspective but not necessarily a bad place, just very alien and very hidebound.

[Margaret · Rating 5 out of 5]

The United States of Europe decides to send a diplomatic/trade mission to Ming China.

Grantville resident Mike Song was born & raised on Taiwan. His parents had fled China in 1949 when Mao & the Communists took over. He is a native Chinese speaker and, better yet, looks convincingly Chinese (as he well should).

Another Grantville resident is a white American who majored in Chinese in college and speaks it fairly fluently.

It takes years to get to China in the 1630's. I was impressed that all of the uptimers & downtimers on the mission took Chinese language lessons (at least survival Chinese) while en route and the two who already spoke Chinese studied Dutch & Portuguese (these two countries had already sent people to China by the 1630's).

Plus, the American/USE mission will not be trying to change anyone's religion/convert folks to either Catholic Christianity or Protestant Christianity. (The mission only sends Catholics because there are already native Chinese Catholics.) That has to count for something, right?

And astronomy & an accurate calendar are super important to the Ming Chinese rulers. The Americans have the advantage here but they have to get an introduction to the court before admitting that they know astronomy (as astronomy is what amounts to a state secret in China. No books or devices are allowed in private hands.)

Americans need to trade with China because China is one of the few places with tungsten deposits (hardens steel needed for American tech made in the 1630's now).

At the end of the book, you find out how many characters in this book were based on actual historic figures in 1630’s China. (A lot more than I expected!)

Highly recommended for 1632 series fans and fans of alternate history in general!

[Douglas Berry · Rating 1 out of 5]

This is a library book, so I did not give it the hearty toss across the room it so deserved.

I endured for 100 pages. Cardboard characters. Almost no actual action is seen in the pages, an entire bandit uprising is told in the past tense and third person so we can get to the bandit kings arguing over musucains. Badly.

But what killed this for me is the author's inability to not slam his research onto every damn page. Every single ship isn't just introduced, we get its history back to its construction. We can't just talk about how the ships' armaments have been upgraded, no, we need a page and a half of expository text detailing the new guns. As in all the Ring of Fire books, there are some real people, and they are introduced as if a bored BBC presenter was reading their biographies!

About half of what I read is set in Ming Dynasty China, and it is so devoid of any descriptive text. . . I had no idea who these people were, or what they looked like, or if any of them ever experienced human emotion! As an example, early on two women are traveling to a temple in a horse cart. That's the description we get in the book. Nothing about the weather, the condition of the road, who is driving this cart, what can be seen from the road. . . nope, two cardboard women in a horsecart on a featureless plane.

What kills me is so many of these books (and there are over two dozen, do a great job of giving the history organically, even it's one up-timer explaining something to someone else for a few sentences. It works in the plot and doesn't require huge blocks of expository text.

Sorry, but this one was a complete fail for me. I could not make myself endure this dreck for another page.

[Julia · Rating 2 out of 5]

2.5 stars, rounded down

Too many detailed descriptions of how things worked - I found myself skimming over those parts. While it's good to know that the background was well developed I don't need to know which chemicals were used in photography, what was used to create different colors of fireworks, or how the different guns could be used and the difference between a gunnade and a carronade.

There also wasn't a clear resolution to the story. After 400+ pages, I expected the delegation to have either succeeded or failed in their primary mission. The biggest military scene took place outside of any connection with the Chinese government. The question of how the "butterfly effect" may have influenced China was not clear (unlike the books where up-timers went to Russia and India).

I didn't dislike it. It's not gun porn. And a lot of the vignettes held my interest, especially the roles of the Catholic up-timers, one character's pregnancy and childbirth, and the description of a Chinese courtesan.

[Beejai Richardson · Rating 3 out of 5]

The China Venture opens a new branch in the Ring of Fire Universe. Back in 1634, a few Uptimers from Grantville along with a crew of Germans and Swedes from the United States of Europe, most notable among these being Peter Minuit who is portrayed horribly in this book, embark on a journey to the Far East. If I was interested enough, I would double check, but I am pretty sure they were including a hot air balloon among their uptime "bag of tricks" before they started to be in use in the main story. If so, this is a continuity error.

But anyways, the book is more of a travel narrative with a few random adventures thrown in, but it is mostly about how the group managed to get to the East and then the challenges of getting themselves accepted at the Ming Imperial Court. Since the invitation (finally) doesn't come until almost the last page, this book is primarily a setup for the book to come...

But with Eric Flint passing and the future of the Ring of Fire uncertain, will it ever come?

[Susan Baranoff · Rating 4 out of 5]

If you are a fan of the series this is one of the many forrays into the wider world involving minor characters who have skills or gifts useful in establishing trade with China and a search for natural resources not available in the European part of the world. If you're unfamiliar with the original series this might have enough preliminary story info for you not to be completely lost, but I'd recommend reading "1632" first.
In his inimitable style, Eric Flint educates us all about the experience of world travel to China and the ways and customs of China in 1634-36 including describing weaponry, war making, medicine, education, the place of art and music, and the role of women. I can't imagine reading all the technical details and keeping it all straight, but the audiobook narrated by George Guidall gives us a narrative we can enjoy and follow.

52BookClub 2025 Lunar New Year Mini-Challenge
Prompt # 1: Set in a country that celebrates Lunar New Year

[Allen McDonnell · Rating 4 out of 5]

Excellent reading

This novel is part of the 1632 series of novels and as such it is very helpful if you have read 1632 by Eric Flint before reading this book as a background for the setting is very helpful. This novel is filled with interesting characters who are traveling to China on a great trading venture in the mid 1630's. A few years earlier a small West Virginia coal mining town was dropped in the middle of the Thirty Years War in 1631 Germany and they know from their history that China is a land with many useful goods they could use to advance the technology of 17th Century Europe where they now live.

[Ron · Rating 4 out of 5]

The newly formed United States of Europe sent forth a trading expedition to China. Besides the normal trading goods (silk, porcelain, tea, etc.), the USE hoped to establish an embassy with the Chinese empire so that they could hunt for minerals such as wolframite to aid in steel making. Plus, maybe they could change history and not have the Ming Dynasty fall. A large load to place on a small group, but someone has to try. This volume takes the expedition to China and on its way. Now we just need to wait for the continuation of this group in a later volume. A nice addition to the every growing 1632 universe!

[Ed Obarowski · Rating 1 out of 5]

This hasn't happened in a while, but I just can't get into this book. I have read many of the 1632 series novels, starting at the first one. I know the universe greatly expanded, and Flint has co-authored with many others who had good ideas for the series before, but this time, the writing, from I believe the co-author's parts about China, just leave me wanting something better when they don't make me audibly yawn after 3-4 paragraphs.
Maybe I'll pick the book up again in the future and try again, but it won't be anytime soon.

[Kathryn Baron · Rating 2 out of 5]

I enjoy the Ring of Fire books. However, this is not one of the better ones. Too much time explaining basic science. Too much time describing all the actions that were taken just in case and the dismantling of the precautions when nothing happens. It might be possible to describe some of this in a non-boring way. This isn't it. Some characters are engaging, the research into China is fascinating, and some word choices are questionable. Memorialize is often used. Pretty sure the intended word was some variant of memorandum.

[Jeremy · Rating 2 out of 5]

This reads like a mediocre writer adapted an outline. "Here's a list of characters. They go here. They meet people." And at the end, there's been no real reason to care about any of it.
I have generally enjoyed the series, but this one should never have been published under the main banner. It could have been left on the forums for the hardcore devotees.

[Alan T · Rating 5 out of 5]

China crew from Grantville

Jim Saluzza and his wife Martina with Erich Garlow along with Mike Song and several other up timers from WV, are going to China as a diplomatic mission for the Emperor. Other down timers are included with the mission.

Characterization & plotting are excellent.

[Lance · Rating 4 out of 5]

It's interesting to me that when this series started I began reading it because it took place in Europe - the continent of my ancestors. This and a few other books have broadened the scope considerably. While it might not have initially occurred to me that the changes wrought by the Ring of Fire would stretch so far, in hindsight it certainly makes sense. Keep them coming!

[Diana Clare · Rating 4 out of 5]

This Is a captivating series.

The authors creates suspense and tension at the right times with clear voice.

The world is described with excellent details and the characters were evolving and coherent along the plot.

Very creative and imaginative. I want more in this series.

[Brian R. Mcdonald]

Two brief references to the game of Weiqi. On p 188, a character is showing photos to another; “Here’s one of you and your father playing Weiqi”. On p 420, “This happened while I was playing the board game Weiqi with the Chinese minister of war”.

[Michael Annis · Rating 3 out of 5]

good addition to the canon

I enjoyed this especially when action was involved though not enough of this. There were far too many long sections of technical and Chinese explanation sections. Very much for the real grantville nerd but sti worth a read.