What do you think?
Rate this book
Before We Was We: The Making of Madness by Madness
New Foreword by Irvine Welsh.
In Before We Was We Madness tell us how they became them. A story of seven originals, whose collective graft, energy and talent took them from the sweaty depths of the Hope and Anchor's basement to the Top of the Pops studio.
In their own words they each look back on shared adventures. Playing music together, riding freight trains, spraying graffiti and stealing records. Walking in one another's footsteps by day and rising up through the city's exploding pub music scene by night. Before We Was We is irreverent, funny and full of character. Just like them.
In Before We Was We Madness tell us how they became them. A story of seven originals, whose collective graft, energy and talent took them from the sweaty depths of the Hope and Anchor's basement to the Top of the Pops studio.
In their own words they each look back on shared adventures. Playing music together, riding freight trains, spraying graffiti and stealing records. Walking in one another's footsteps by day and rising up through the city's exploding pub music scene by night. Before We Was We is irreverent, funny and full of character. Just like them.
320 pages, Paperback
Published April 9, 2020
41 people are currently reading
177 people want to read
Ratings & Reviews
Friends & Following
Create a free account to discover what your friends think of this book!
Community Reviews
Displaying 1 - 30 of 46 reviews
August 3, 2025
First I saw the documentary on the telly one night, more by accident than on purpose. I was just flikking through the channels on regular TV when I heard the line from "one step beyond" by a presenter and stayed on that channel until the show finished.
"Don't watch that........ watch this"
This is the story of a band known as MADNESS before they was that band. It is the story of the 7 members of the band very honestly admitting what they were up to. Their own voices tell their story which makes it sound more authentic.
It is a honest story of how Madness came to be and how the various members came to be with the band. And then a wee bit after the first album came about.
I enjoyed the documentary and this book, I encountered Madness through their first single " the prince" and then of course Their first album, and have been buying them untill now.
I remember ordering The Dangermen volume 1 in my favorite recordstore and the owner ordering the cd including one to play in his store. When I Walked into the store hé got the music playing and told me hé really enjoyed the music and it reminder him of this English ska band. Then I told him that would be Madness and yes they were it. Hé sold quite a few copies of this album.
on the 19th July of this year I saw the Nutty boys at work in the Netherlands and their show was bloody great fun, the audiëntie being of all ages and enjoying their songbook. And no fisticuffs at all which seemed to be the rage when they started.
At thirteen they became my favorite band and still remain so. Their 3rd album still is my soundtrack for Lord of the Rings , I played the album while reading LOTR for the first time.
It is Madness but the music of the band still puts a Smile on my face as did reading this book simply because before we was we is a universally given..
this book is not just for fans of the Nutty Boys but it does help.
"Don't watch that........ watch this"
This is the story of a band known as MADNESS before they was that band. It is the story of the 7 members of the band very honestly admitting what they were up to. Their own voices tell their story which makes it sound more authentic.
It is a honest story of how Madness came to be and how the various members came to be with the band. And then a wee bit after the first album came about.
I enjoyed the documentary and this book, I encountered Madness through their first single " the prince" and then of course Their first album, and have been buying them untill now.
I remember ordering The Dangermen volume 1 in my favorite recordstore and the owner ordering the cd including one to play in his store. When I Walked into the store hé got the music playing and told me hé really enjoyed the music and it reminder him of this English ska band. Then I told him that would be Madness and yes they were it. Hé sold quite a few copies of this album.
on the 19th July of this year I saw the Nutty boys at work in the Netherlands and their show was bloody great fun, the audiëntie being of all ages and enjoying their songbook. And no fisticuffs at all which seemed to be the rage when they started.
At thirteen they became my favorite band and still remain so. Their 3rd album still is my soundtrack for Lord of the Rings , I played the album while reading LOTR for the first time.
It is Madness but the music of the band still puts a Smile on my face as did reading this book simply because before we was we is a universally given..
this book is not just for fans of the Nutty Boys but it does help.
Read
November 29, 2019The Nutty Boys' origin story, told oral history style, with band members passing the baton (and occasionally saying that whoever spoke last is talking out of their arse). The first thing that hits you is: obviously they're the last great British band to be laddish in any real sense (even if that was always balanced with a showmanship entirely alien to any of the subsequent lumps in that vein) but blimey, they were proper little hoodlums, weren't they? And no surprise when some of their dads were career criminals, or junkies – though equally, others were lecturers, yet all their upbringings ended up rackety one way or another. Some of them sound quite fond as they reminisce about this, the freedom of lax discipline, playing on streets and bomb sites; others are markedly less so. It was a time of inter-generational tension, of course – thought aren't they all – and it's shocking being reminded of that weird mixed period in which you had teachers of the old school*, literally, who thought nothing of dropping racist digs or casual violence in class, but also a new hippy generation coming through, trying to be down with the kids and let them express themselves. Still, one way or another all of the boys who'd become Madness ended up at best skirting the law, and not just in the acceptably teenage sort of way (light shoplifting, soft drugs, early adopters when it came to graffiti) but getting into some genuinely hairy territory – jumping goods trains, kidnapping, burglary – such that there could easily have been serious consequences, for themselves and also by extension for pop history. Like any success story, or at least any working class success story, it's incredibly contingent, and the band have the good grace to admit this rather than insist they made it wholly through determination or somesuch bollocks. Time and again, it's mere good luck that sees them through, like Jerry Dammers trying to sign them when he hasn't even got a pencil, getting them in on the ground floor of 2 Tone, a movement with which they were in near-perfect alignment despite not having known it was happening way out there in Coventry. Equally, there are moments which must have felt like disasters at the time, like missing their first proper recording session because Woody got hopelessly lost en route – but the producer told them later that he thought they'd improved markedly in the weeks between that and the rescheduled slot, and while he may have been trying to calm them down, equally he could have been right, and a more prompt demo wouldn't have proved quite the calling card they needed.
Of course, even if hard work wasn't sufficient, it was necessary, and there's a period where some of the band are just treating it as a lark, frustrating those more determined to make a go of it. The gang mentality one might have expected isn't quite there, not least because they'd all come up via their own separate but overlapping gangs, so you get stuff like Suggs getting sacked for a bit because he fucked off rehearsals to go watch the football. Even once they're signed, for a while Chas is only on a £20 retainer rather than a band member proper. But set against that a growing suspicion that they had something here, and that the alternative was starting to go a bit far into outright nastiness (even if exactly where 'too far' began varied from member to member), and ultimately they all agree to focus. In Mike's wonderful formulation: "If we're going to fuck about, let's not fuck about. If we're going to dress up and make clowns of ourselves, let's be fucking serious."
Not that this could ever be an altogether serious book, of course, not when it's peppered with images like the young Lee practising his sax on derelict industrial sites, or in fields with curious cows – scenes which sound like they belong in some of the band's later videos. And it turns out it wasn't until the second album that anyone knew how to tune a saxophone, though even that was another contributory factor to their distinctive sound. Or what about the image of the rehearsal room that made them, which was in fact a dentist's, ska-pop hits cohering in the middle of eerie ranks of teeth impressions? This one's a perfect example of a phrase that keeps cropping up, "comic malevolence", which is a perfect summary of part of the band's allure, that quality Madness share with other British institutions from pantomime to their great influence, Ian Dury; one of the introductions suggests them as the missing link between the Pythons and the Krays. Although until I read this I'd never have guessed that they were just as into Roxy Music as Kilburn & the High Roads.
Despite the title, Before We Was We does follow the band a little way into proper fame; you know you've made it once labels are flying you out to New York and LA, and there's some amusingly veiled remarks on the maths involved in a septet all seemingly dating one of the four Go-Go's. We finish with My Girl on Top of the Pops and a pop breakthrough achieved – but the band still nicking scooters, because old habits die hard. An enjoyable read, and I'm sure the sequel would be too, though part of me hopes that unlike Brett Anderson they have the self-restraint to leave it here, at the beginning.
*Nothing to do with anything, really, but there's a bit where Cathal Smyth - better known as Chas Smash - is talking about a school he went to where the headteacher was Mr Coughlan, and just seeing those two names in proximity set me imagining a very different version of Madness.
Of course, even if hard work wasn't sufficient, it was necessary, and there's a period where some of the band are just treating it as a lark, frustrating those more determined to make a go of it. The gang mentality one might have expected isn't quite there, not least because they'd all come up via their own separate but overlapping gangs, so you get stuff like Suggs getting sacked for a bit because he fucked off rehearsals to go watch the football. Even once they're signed, for a while Chas is only on a £20 retainer rather than a band member proper. But set against that a growing suspicion that they had something here, and that the alternative was starting to go a bit far into outright nastiness (even if exactly where 'too far' began varied from member to member), and ultimately they all agree to focus. In Mike's wonderful formulation: "If we're going to fuck about, let's not fuck about. If we're going to dress up and make clowns of ourselves, let's be fucking serious."
Not that this could ever be an altogether serious book, of course, not when it's peppered with images like the young Lee practising his sax on derelict industrial sites, or in fields with curious cows – scenes which sound like they belong in some of the band's later videos. And it turns out it wasn't until the second album that anyone knew how to tune a saxophone, though even that was another contributory factor to their distinctive sound. Or what about the image of the rehearsal room that made them, which was in fact a dentist's, ska-pop hits cohering in the middle of eerie ranks of teeth impressions? This one's a perfect example of a phrase that keeps cropping up, "comic malevolence", which is a perfect summary of part of the band's allure, that quality Madness share with other British institutions from pantomime to their great influence, Ian Dury; one of the introductions suggests them as the missing link between the Pythons and the Krays. Although until I read this I'd never have guessed that they were just as into Roxy Music as Kilburn & the High Roads.
Despite the title, Before We Was We does follow the band a little way into proper fame; you know you've made it once labels are flying you out to New York and LA, and there's some amusingly veiled remarks on the maths involved in a septet all seemingly dating one of the four Go-Go's. We finish with My Girl on Top of the Pops and a pop breakthrough achieved – but the band still nicking scooters, because old habits die hard. An enjoyable read, and I'm sure the sequel would be too, though part of me hopes that unlike Brett Anderson they have the self-restraint to leave it here, at the beginning.
*Nothing to do with anything, really, but there's a bit where Cathal Smyth - better known as Chas Smash - is talking about a school he went to where the headteacher was Mr Coughlan, and just seeing those two names in proximity set me imagining a very different version of Madness.
July 22, 2020
Impossible to put down
Heading the story of the band’s early years from their very own mouths, added an element of realism to the whole fame/success thing that can be missing from a straight bio.
I must be getting old, because I found myself incredibly disappointed in the band’s continued light fingered antics. ‘You’re not setting a very good example lads!’
Excellent group though, and a thoroughly enjoyable genesis story.
Heading the story of the band’s early years from their very own mouths, added an element of realism to the whole fame/success thing that can be missing from a straight bio.
I must be getting old, because I found myself incredibly disappointed in the band’s continued light fingered antics. ‘You’re not setting a very good example lads!’
Excellent group though, and a thoroughly enjoyable genesis story.
October 26, 2019
I enjoyed this book a lot and including every member of the band's thoughts added a lot to the story.
I did feel a bit sad that Cathal's voice felt quite separate from the rest of the band somehow. Like their first album his picture isn't included in the front of the book and sometimes the story does feel a bit him and them.
I thought the picture choices were unexpected. There seemed to be more photos of Mikes family and less of the band and friends together. It feels like the book stops quite abruptly, the boys are really starting to become big players on the music scene. I'm hoping this is because they're planning to release at least one more book covering their experiences as the band (joint with UB40) who spent the most weeks on the UK charts during the entire 1980's.
I'd love to read more about that, their eventual split in the mid 80's before the birth of earthquake that was Madstock. What they did before reforming in the late 90's, playing on the roof of Buckingham Palace and more the Olympics. I'd love to read more about them as people too, what was happening in their lives outside of the band as well as in it.
Because as interesting as this book is, I don't know that there's loads here that fans might now already know from Take It Or Leave It, past interviews and books including Suggs' own autobiography.
I did feel a bit sad that Cathal's voice felt quite separate from the rest of the band somehow. Like their first album his picture isn't included in the front of the book and sometimes the story does feel a bit him and them.
I thought the picture choices were unexpected. There seemed to be more photos of Mikes family and less of the band and friends together. It feels like the book stops quite abruptly, the boys are really starting to become big players on the music scene. I'm hoping this is because they're planning to release at least one more book covering their experiences as the band (joint with UB40) who spent the most weeks on the UK charts during the entire 1980's.
I'd love to read more about that, their eventual split in the mid 80's before the birth of earthquake that was Madstock. What they did before reforming in the late 90's, playing on the roof of Buckingham Palace and more the Olympics. I'd love to read more about them as people too, what was happening in their lives outside of the band as well as in it.
Because as interesting as this book is, I don't know that there's loads here that fans might now already know from Take It Or Leave It, past interviews and books including Suggs' own autobiography.
July 6, 2020
I listened to this on audio. It was more like listening to the band sat around reminiscing than an actual book. There was a lot of talk about shop lifting including from charity shops and no sense of remorse. I expected a bit more on the music scene. Having said that, it did improve towards the end with more around the music. Not overly impressed.
January 20, 2021
The best band and I will be taking no questions
July 5, 2020
A very entertaining audiobook, read by the different members of the band, covering childhood up to the release of My Girl, which turned them from a Ska band into a pop group, or even a boyband. It’s very well told by the band, and it’s particularly good when Two Tone becomes a movement and the band starts getting some momentum. It’s occasionally confusing as several members of the band sound pretty similar, particularly Bedders and Woody. However if you listen to it a few times you get to recognise them. There is usually a piece of music between chapters, taken from early demos, which adds to the enjoyment. Highly recommended.
April 15, 2020
Not the best written book you will ever read, it's more like a magazine article than a book, and I'd imagine the Audiobook is even better than the printed word. A fascinating insight into growing up in post war London - I must admit I really didn't like the band as people initially but as they grow up you warm to them. Nice bit of music history.
November 23, 2019
Brilliant read. Absolutely riveting account of the rise of Madness.
Thoroughly recommended.
Thoroughly recommended.
March 12, 2021
A lifelong Madness fan. But just couldn't get into it. I really tried. Just wasn't for me. Sorry boys!!!
July 24, 2025
Interesting book about madness and their run up to fame. They were very typical of the boys you’d come across in London in 70s; bit loud, bit leery and quite daft. For the madness crew they were lucky, they got out and turned their teenage nonsense into a pretty lucrative and enduring music act. The book is written as a conversation between the band members. To be honest I lost track of who was who and who nicked what and who got nicked and when. Jolly romp and a nostalgic trip to some parts of my own teen years.
September 14, 2025
This was a chaotic book to read. It seemed to be a direct transcript of a chat the band had about their early days. Not the sort of writing I enjoy. The stories and their early history were very interesting, and were the reason I persisted in completing the book, but it's hard to actually like a bunch of people who glory in theft, drug taking and violence with no sense of remorse for the main part. This would have been 100 times better if it was a documentary on TV.
July 2, 2021
The Nutty Boys before they truly hit the big time, starting in 1970, in North London. With contributions from them all, this tells how they came about and their experiences of growing up. Some proper naughty boys sailing close to the wind. Even Cilla Black gets a mention from Suggs. Fun read.
March 2, 2021
Well worth a read
The first record I bought was by Madness. When I started to read this book, I realised it was like being in the same room whilst listening to the band members talk, I was delighted. Although Suggs is ten years older than me, and I grew up in Dundee, Scotland, I could resonate with their stories and the shenanigans they got up to. Well worth a read, irrespective of whether you were into Madness or not. I was and I still listen to them to this day. When this Covid F@#&s off, I want to see them perform live.
The first record I bought was by Madness. When I started to read this book, I realised it was like being in the same room whilst listening to the band members talk, I was delighted. Although Suggs is ten years older than me, and I grew up in Dundee, Scotland, I could resonate with their stories and the shenanigans they got up to. Well worth a read, irrespective of whether you were into Madness or not. I was and I still listen to them to this day. When this Covid F@#&s off, I want to see them perform live.
January 24, 2020
One of the most interesting things, to me, about this great history, is the hilarious string of non-sequiturs that build a perfect picture of the environment, culture and setting for this wonderful band to form. While each member provides their individual snapshot, it all comes together to paint a fascinating picture of London in the 70's.
I'm sure I'll be coming back to this one again and again.
I'm sure I'll be coming back to this one again and again.
December 30, 2019
As a fan of the band, I was not disappointed. It seemed like a different world they described growing up playing on bomb sites etc. Some aspects of their getting together seemed to be down to sheer luck (luckily for us). As the book ends with the first signs of success, I hope there will be a sequel to continue the Madness story.
July 28, 2020
This is less of a book and more of a series of discussions about their early life and how madness came about
And as a huge madness fan I loved it , it gave a real insight int to the lads and the band
it shows there nutty side , shows their friendship
i love how they contradicted each others memories
And as a huge madness fan I loved it , it gave a real insight int to the lads and the band
it shows there nutty side , shows their friendship
i love how they contradicted each others memories
July 27, 2020
One for the fans, collection of chapters based on interviews.
Each band member describes life from earliest memories up until signing for Stiff and recording the first album. Much of this covered in other books, interviews and documentaries but nicely collected in one place.
Each band member describes life from earliest memories up until signing for Stiff and recording the first album. Much of this covered in other books, interviews and documentaries but nicely collected in one place.
February 22, 2021
I felt a bit short changed with this book. It was just a transcript of an interview with members of the band on there rise to fame. They came across as a bunch of idiots; playing on the train tracks, thieving stuff and other crap.
January 2, 2020
Amazing stories of a time long gone. Evocative of my childhood and background.
A bunch of outsiders taking their chance. I loved it.
A bunch of outsiders taking their chance. I loved it.
February 7, 2020
What a fun book, gives quite the image is a specific time and place.
November 13, 2020
The years 1970 - 1979 in the band's own words. Excellent.
December 19, 2020
Just a great reminiscence by a great band.
March 28, 2023
Something I wonder about sometimes is what my life would have looked like if my parents had stayed in England. I like to think I would have wound up in Art School, but who knows? Reading this book was a pretty good indication of what my path might have looked like; these guys are all my age or close, and from London, mind you west and north, not south and east and Surrey where my parents were from (but Paul Weller was, hmmmm). Turns out at least one thing would have been exactly the same:
Chris Foreman (Guitar): Something that unified the band was Monty Python....I watched it and it was like 'Oh my God'. It was such a big thing. You'd go to school and everyone would be reciting bits of the script, or writing 'Spam, spam, spam' on the blackboard.
On balance though I'm glad I didn't grow up in England in the 70's and then live under Thatcher.
Excellent band bio, fascinating, hilarious and touching. If you've even only just heard of this band, read it.
Chris Foreman (Guitar): Something that unified the band was Monty Python....I watched it and it was like 'Oh my God'. It was such a big thing. You'd go to school and everyone would be reciting bits of the script, or writing 'Spam, spam, spam' on the blackboard.
On balance though I'm glad I didn't grow up in England in the 70's and then live under Thatcher.
Excellent band bio, fascinating, hilarious and touching. If you've even only just heard of this band, read it.
August 6, 2025
🚨🎧Listen to The Prince by Madness while reading this review 🎧🚨
Finished this in a day - so good.
I’m a big fan so had some context already, but I thought it was a really honest account by the band of how they came together.
Each chapter featured all seven original band members accounts of different events or themes, so you got a really wide perspective on everything that happened.
They’re all from around Camden, Hampstead, Holloway, Highgate, etc. which made it particularly interesting. And it gave a real insight into what it was like forming a band in 1970s London.
Also just reminded me of the bangers they have. Gonna give it to my dad he’ll be buzzing
Finished this in a day - so good.
I’m a big fan so had some context already, but I thought it was a really honest account by the band of how they came together.
Each chapter featured all seven original band members accounts of different events or themes, so you got a really wide perspective on everything that happened.
They’re all from around Camden, Hampstead, Holloway, Highgate, etc. which made it particularly interesting. And it gave a real insight into what it was like forming a band in 1970s London.
Also just reminded me of the bangers they have. Gonna give it to my dad he’ll be buzzing
April 4, 2021
Firstly, I think this book is one for the super fans and I'd guess that the masses of 5* reviews for this book are from these fans. There's nothing wrong with being a super fan but I just wanted to warn the more casual fan that this book might not be for them. I've long enjoyed Madness' music but i'm too young to remember their 80's heyday and know very little about the members of the band and as a result I found this book boring at times as it focuses in detail on the bands childhood years.
The book is structured like a magazine interview with each band member taking a turn to tell their part of a story. This method was an interesting one to use but it does occasionally fail when stories overlap each other, I assume this is because each member was spoken to separately and the stories then pieced together.
I didn't enjoy the first 50-60% of this book because I felt it wasn't aimed at the more casual fan and so included a lot of detail about each individual members childhood and upbringing and if you aren't familiar with the band members then at first it is a little confusing. I also didn't like this large chunk of the book because it can be best described as a list of various petty crimes committed by of each of the band members and for which no remorse or thought for the victims is ever shown. However I enjoyed the final 40% of the book much more particularly their stories of touring with The Specials and their dismay at and dealings with some of the crowd they were attracting in their early days.
I found it a bit boring but if you are a big fan of Madness then I think you would find it interesting and enjoy this book.
The book is structured like a magazine interview with each band member taking a turn to tell their part of a story. This method was an interesting one to use but it does occasionally fail when stories overlap each other, I assume this is because each member was spoken to separately and the stories then pieced together.
I didn't enjoy the first 50-60% of this book because I felt it wasn't aimed at the more casual fan and so included a lot of detail about each individual members childhood and upbringing and if you aren't familiar with the band members then at first it is a little confusing. I also didn't like this large chunk of the book because it can be best described as a list of various petty crimes committed by of each of the band members and for which no remorse or thought for the victims is ever shown. However I enjoyed the final 40% of the book much more particularly their stories of touring with The Specials and their dismay at and dealings with some of the crowd they were attracting in their early days.
I found it a bit boring but if you are a big fan of Madness then I think you would find it interesting and enjoy this book.
March 28, 2023
Interesting book, particularly if you were born or influenced by the 80s and the music of that decade.
Touches on so many aspects of life prior to the world being dominated by social media and gadgets.
Informative from the perspective of reading about all of the band rather than just the front man which is indicative of most chronicles of this nature.
As a fan of their music I found this an intriguing little read and would recommend.
Firm 4 stars.
Touches on so many aspects of life prior to the world being dominated by social media and gadgets.
Informative from the perspective of reading about all of the band rather than just the front man which is indicative of most chronicles of this nature.
As a fan of their music I found this an intriguing little read and would recommend.
Firm 4 stars.
November 20, 2021
A good laugh
They were a bunch of little villainous towrags!! The stuff they got up to as teens was terrible. But then, I guess, they were no different to probably a huge chunk if teen boys back then. Interesting read overall, going from kids to their first bugs couple of hits. Nutters, the lot o
f them 😁
They were a bunch of little villainous towrags!! The stuff they got up to as teens was terrible. But then, I guess, they were no different to probably a huge chunk if teen boys back then. Interesting read overall, going from kids to their first bugs couple of hits. Nutters, the lot o
f them 😁
March 16, 2022
Very good give some very interesting insights different from suggs book, which I would also recommend ready along with this. It's more than a story of a band it's the generation of the 70s in London and how those on the less fortunate side of street lived and played, how being skint having no where to go shaped lives and ended up in trouble.
October 31, 2023
I liked Madness before, but hearing their original story made me love them. I created a playlist based on the music that they talked about, and its incredible. Even if you're not a huge fan, I would still recommend this!
Displaying 1 - 30 of 46 reviews