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The Legends of Camber of Culdi #2
Saint Camber
When Camber of Culdi, master of arcane Deryni powers, led a successful revolution against Imre, his sister Ariella, plotted war against Cinhill, her brother's successor. But Cinhill didn't want a fight, he didn't want power, and it was up to Camber to save crown and country....
449 pages, Mass Market Paperback
First published January 1, 1978
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1001 people want to read
About the author
Katherine Kurtz
93 books743 followersKatherine Kurtz is an American fantasy novel writer. She is best known for her Deryni series. She currently lives in Virginia.
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 68 reviews
November 28, 2023
SAINT CAMBER is my 5th Deryni read, & you could copy-paste from my previous Kurtz forays to cobble together my response. Like, say, this paragraph from my review of Book 4:
There’s never anything more than surface to the characters; you never become attached to them, never particularly care if someone lives or dies, never especially hope anyone wins or loses. There’s lots of to’ing & fro’ing, some arcane rituals, some medieval political backstabbing, even some sword fighting…but it never touches any depth of emotion in yours truly. The most all-encompassing word I can think of is superficial.
…Combined with this (condensed) clipping from my review of Book 3:
Other issues remain constant: no significant female presence; repeated rehashing conversations; terrible pace; easy fixes to big problems.
…And there you have it.
Obviously Kurtz was trying to include Evaine more in the first half of this book—she allows us to see a brief glimpse of her domestic + magical life with Rhys, which is a departure from previous female characters—but then Evaine is abruptly dropped & mentioned only as being pregnant or as witness to Camber’s “sainthood.” The villainous Ariella—who had the potential to be a delightfully nasty antagonist—is barely included, making a 3-pg cameo to look at maps & then appearing again only in her death scene. And as for Megan, good grief. The girl has 3 lines in the entire book, all of which are begging for Cinhil’s attention. 🙄
So. *shrug* Kurtz (again) denies significant female presence to balance the overwhelmingly male cast, leaving characters who feel gay even if they’re not supposed to be, characters who might be gay except it’s so vaguely alluded to that their sexuality is indistinguishable from magical connectivity, & lots of talking heads to fill the remaining expositional dialogue. You also have a whiny king digging in his heels against a hypocritical self-righteous kingmaker—which might be a fun conflict if they weren’t such an annoying pair—with the talking heads rubbing your face in their tedium by continually yapping about the aforementioned king & kingmaker…yada yada. 🥱 (Also, the way Camber justifies poking around in other minds & manipulating their emotions because he decides it’s best for them to know/not know or feel/not feel is truly obnoxious…but there’s no exploration of such blurred morality because clearly we’re supposed to accept Camber’s knowledge as superior & everything he does as Right + Good(tm) for the betterment of humans & Deryni both. Why? Because the author says so. Camber is a Good Guy—no further excuse needed. Say what? 🤔)
Yet again the pacing is terrible; yet again the plot is buried beneath dry prose & flat personalities. Even so, I wanted to see the conclusion of this installment & will undoubtedly plod through the final Camber novel, so there’s *something* that keeps me invested just enough to continue; that mysterious *something* is enough for the usual tepid 3 stars (a trademark of my Deryni experience 🤖), but I don’t understand why they’re considered to be icons of the genre.
There’s never anything more than surface to the characters; you never become attached to them, never particularly care if someone lives or dies, never especially hope anyone wins or loses. There’s lots of to’ing & fro’ing, some arcane rituals, some medieval political backstabbing, even some sword fighting…but it never touches any depth of emotion in yours truly. The most all-encompassing word I can think of is superficial.
…Combined with this (condensed) clipping from my review of Book 3:
Other issues remain constant: no significant female presence; repeated rehashing conversations; terrible pace; easy fixes to big problems.
…And there you have it.
Obviously Kurtz was trying to include Evaine more in the first half of this book—she allows us to see a brief glimpse of her domestic + magical life with Rhys, which is a departure from previous female characters—but then Evaine is abruptly dropped & mentioned only as being pregnant or as witness to Camber’s “sainthood.” The villainous Ariella—who had the potential to be a delightfully nasty antagonist—is barely included, making a 3-pg cameo to look at maps & then appearing again only in her death scene. And as for Megan, good grief. The girl has 3 lines in the entire book, all of which are begging for Cinhil’s attention. 🙄
So. *shrug* Kurtz (again) denies significant female presence to balance the overwhelmingly male cast, leaving characters who feel gay even if they’re not supposed to be, characters who might be gay except it’s so vaguely alluded to that their sexuality is indistinguishable from magical connectivity, & lots of talking heads to fill the remaining expositional dialogue. You also have a whiny king digging in his heels against a hypocritical self-righteous kingmaker—which might be a fun conflict if they weren’t such an annoying pair—with the talking heads rubbing your face in their tedium by continually yapping about the aforementioned king & kingmaker…yada yada. 🥱 (Also, the way Camber justifies poking around in other minds & manipulating their emotions because he decides it’s best for them to know/not know or feel/not feel is truly obnoxious…but there’s no exploration of such blurred morality because clearly we’re supposed to accept Camber’s knowledge as superior & everything he does as Right + Good(tm) for the betterment of humans & Deryni both. Why? Because the author says so. Camber is a Good Guy—no further excuse needed. Say what? 🤔)
Yet again the pacing is terrible; yet again the plot is buried beneath dry prose & flat personalities. Even so, I wanted to see the conclusion of this installment & will undoubtedly plod through the final Camber novel, so there’s *something* that keeps me invested just enough to continue; that mysterious *something* is enough for the usual tepid 3 stars (a trademark of my Deryni experience 🤖), but I don’t understand why they’re considered to be icons of the genre.
August 11, 2018
4.5 stars. This book sets the stage for book 3. This is the calm before the storm. Cinhil secures his throne. Bad choices are made for seemingly good reasons by well intentioned characters.
May 29, 2016
So when last we left our heroes, Cinhil Donal Ifor Haldane had (reluctantly) been plucked from his monastic life and assumed the kingship (by chucking his predecessor Imre's dead body off of a balcony into the royal courtyard).
Saint Camber picks up six months later. Cinhil is still uneasily settling into his new role; Camber & his friends & children are still trying to keep the kingdom from running off the rails; and Ariella, sister of the deposed Imre, has fled, with her & her brother's incestuous infant son, to more friendly climes.
Mild spoilers: Camber's influence with the king is waning and/or in danger of backfiring; Cinhil really would've preferred to stay in his monastery; his surviving children (infant twin sons) are both sickly and/or flawed to one degree or another. So there comes a point midway through the book when, in an act of desperation, Camber arranges to "die" (by using his Deryni powers to swap forms with another character who has died at a particularly unfortunate time). Events leading to the titular sainthood are inadvertently set in motion as a result of some of the real Camber's actions once the masquerade is underway; and much of the latter portion of the book is Camber (and the few who know his secret) agonizing about how to respond; as a man of genuine faith himself, he's obviously reluctant to see himself canonized under what can only be described as false pretenses.
This is an interesting book. For one thing, there's no real villain. Well, sure, there's Ariella, but she plays a relatively minor (albeit pivotal) role. The closest things to an antagonist are either Cinhil (who is kind of desperately unhappy in his new role as king, and not above spreading some of that around), the folks behind the drive for Camber's sainthood (who are only responding to events as they perceive them), and maybe Camber's own conscience, especially in a situation like this where there are no easy answers.
I'm also generally quite pleased with Kurtz' treatment of (explicitly Christian) religion in the books; it's clearly a major part of the characters' lives (as would be appropriate given the historical models for the setting) and treated seriously and respectfully both by the characters and by the author.
Given that the final book is called Camber the Heretic, though, I can only assume that there are bad times a-comin' ...
Saint Camber picks up six months later. Cinhil is still uneasily settling into his new role; Camber & his friends & children are still trying to keep the kingdom from running off the rails; and Ariella, sister of the deposed Imre, has fled, with her & her brother's incestuous infant son, to more friendly climes.
Mild spoilers: Camber's influence with the king is waning and/or in danger of backfiring; Cinhil really would've preferred to stay in his monastery; his surviving children (infant twin sons) are both sickly and/or flawed to one degree or another. So there comes a point midway through the book when, in an act of desperation, Camber arranges to "die" (by using his Deryni powers to swap forms with another character who has died at a particularly unfortunate time). Events leading to the titular sainthood are inadvertently set in motion as a result of some of the real Camber's actions once the masquerade is underway; and much of the latter portion of the book is Camber (and the few who know his secret) agonizing about how to respond; as a man of genuine faith himself, he's obviously reluctant to see himself canonized under what can only be described as false pretenses.
This is an interesting book. For one thing, there's no real villain. Well, sure, there's Ariella, but she plays a relatively minor (albeit pivotal) role. The closest things to an antagonist are either Cinhil (who is kind of desperately unhappy in his new role as king, and not above spreading some of that around), the folks behind the drive for Camber's sainthood (who are only responding to events as they perceive them), and maybe Camber's own conscience, especially in a situation like this where there are no easy answers.
I'm also generally quite pleased with Kurtz' treatment of (explicitly Christian) religion in the books; it's clearly a major part of the characters' lives (as would be appropriate given the historical models for the setting) and treated seriously and respectfully both by the characters and by the author.
Given that the final book is called Camber the Heretic, though, I can only assume that there are bad times a-comin' ...
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July 30, 2017Having deposed a Deryni tyrant, Camber and his family struggle to convince Cinhil, reluctant human king, to accept his new role and stop pining for his calm, monastic life.
Review:
One of the things I’d forgotten until this re-read of the serious is just how morally flexible Camber and his crew are. In the first series, Alaric and Morgan see Camber as a legendary figure who could do no wrong. While this trilogy allows for the fact that Camber’s just a man, we’re clearly still supposed to see him as always on the side of good and right. In fact, it becomes a little annoying just how righteous he is – at least in his own eyes and the eyes of the author. The truth is that he’s astonishingly manipulative and Machiavellian. Ends, in this case, virtually always justify the means; the token protests and qualms are just that – tokens, not to be taken as serious obstacles. Even within the heavy religious layer, devotion to god takes second place to political need. It wouldn’t all be so troublesome if it weren’t for the fact that we’re clearly meant to see all these decisions as amply justified, because Camber is on the side of Right. He warns against Deryni exploitation of vulnerable humans, even as he exploits vulnerable humans for his own goals.
There’s also a much stronger fascination with clothing than I recalled. If you’re not interested in a detailed description of sumptuous religious habiliments, you’ll be able to skip long paragraphs.
A big appeal of the books for me was always the magic that later generations were slowly discovering. Here, in the earlier time… they’re busy discovering the magic of an earlier generation. And a lot of what they find is both awfully convenient, and thinly described. A couple of warding cubes, a religious invocation, some mumbling, and you’re pretty much good to go. Need a particular skill? Camber and crew are bound to discover it just in time.
Don’t ruin your memory of this book by re-reading it.
Review:
One of the things I’d forgotten until this re-read of the serious is just how morally flexible Camber and his crew are. In the first series, Alaric and Morgan see Camber as a legendary figure who could do no wrong. While this trilogy allows for the fact that Camber’s just a man, we’re clearly still supposed to see him as always on the side of good and right. In fact, it becomes a little annoying just how righteous he is – at least in his own eyes and the eyes of the author. The truth is that he’s astonishingly manipulative and Machiavellian. Ends, in this case, virtually always justify the means; the token protests and qualms are just that – tokens, not to be taken as serious obstacles. Even within the heavy religious layer, devotion to god takes second place to political need. It wouldn’t all be so troublesome if it weren’t for the fact that we’re clearly meant to see all these decisions as amply justified, because Camber is on the side of Right. He warns against Deryni exploitation of vulnerable humans, even as he exploits vulnerable humans for his own goals.
There’s also a much stronger fascination with clothing than I recalled. If you’re not interested in a detailed description of sumptuous religious habiliments, you’ll be able to skip long paragraphs.
A big appeal of the books for me was always the magic that later generations were slowly discovering. Here, in the earlier time… they’re busy discovering the magic of an earlier generation. And a lot of what they find is both awfully convenient, and thinly described. A couple of warding cubes, a religious invocation, some mumbling, and you’re pretty much good to go. Need a particular skill? Camber and crew are bound to discover it just in time.
Don’t ruin your memory of this book by re-reading it.
October 16, 2016
Oh, how I loved these books so much when I first read them. I was so delighted when they were both published as ebooks and then being covered in a read/reread on Tor.com.
At the finish of this one, I find I don't have a lot more to say than a comment I made on the reread post for Chapters 20 and 21 of this book. I'm responding to Judith Tarr's post and the ongoing conclusion that the Deryni have little respect for humans and their rights, needs or boundaries.
"Sadly, I have to agree that you’re right about the Deryni being awful. And yet, I can't quite set aside my teenage conditioning and seriously hate them, so I’m left kind of vacillating in the middle.
We haven’t got to “suck fairy” levels, but I am finding it very sad that something I remember so fondly is not standing up as well as I would like to a modern reread. I still want to keep reading them, but there’s this quiet disappointment riding along with me that I wish wasn’t happening."
At the finish of this one, I find I don't have a lot more to say than a comment I made on the reread post for Chapters 20 and 21 of this book. I'm responding to Judith Tarr's post and the ongoing conclusion that the Deryni have little respect for humans and their rights, needs or boundaries.
"Sadly, I have to agree that you’re right about the Deryni being awful. And yet, I can't quite set aside my teenage conditioning and seriously hate them, so I’m left kind of vacillating in the middle.
We haven’t got to “suck fairy” levels, but I am finding it very sad that something I remember so fondly is not standing up as well as I would like to a modern reread. I still want to keep reading them, but there’s this quiet disappointment riding along with me that I wish wasn’t happening."
November 30, 2016
So it's an interest premise. And it's competently executed. And it's clearly written by someone steeped in Catholicism but not evangelical about it so it feels like you are learning about that perspective without being lectured plus there's magic wielders trying to put a lost heir to the throne in order to replace evil, usurping, incestuous sorcerous brother-sister monarchs so really it should be good.
But it's let down by the sheer arrogance of the main character who had determined that he gets to judge who should sit on the throne (regardless of the wishes of the chosen candidate) and he gets to decide what counsel his candidate needs and he gets to trample on the minds and wills of everyone else around him and take over identities and distort legacies of whoever he wishes. And he does this on the justification that he is the wisest and best equipped (as attested by his children) while making idiotic mistakes that, sure, drive major plot points but are still imbecilic. So I had to take off a couple of stars because I kind of wish the hero of the book gets killed. But I'll still read the 3rd of the trilogy.
But it's let down by the sheer arrogance of the main character who had determined that he gets to judge who should sit on the throne (regardless of the wishes of the chosen candidate) and he gets to decide what counsel his candidate needs and he gets to trample on the minds and wills of everyone else around him and take over identities and distort legacies of whoever he wishes. And he does this on the justification that he is the wisest and best equipped (as attested by his children) while making idiotic mistakes that, sure, drive major plot points but are still imbecilic. So I had to take off a couple of stars because I kind of wish the hero of the book gets killed. But I'll still read the 3rd of the trilogy.
April 7, 2014
Re-read. Fabulous series. Fantasy as I want to read it.
August 27, 2017
2.5 stars Metaphorosis reviews
Having deposed a Deryni tyrant, Camber and his family struggle to convince Cinhil, reluctant human king, to accept his new role and stop pining for his calm, monastic life.
One of the things I'd forgotten until this re-read of the serious is just how morally flexible Camber and his crew are. In the first series, Alaric and Morgan see Camber as a legendary figure who could do no wrong. While this trilogy allows for the fact that Camber's just a man, we're clearly still supposed to see him as always on the side of good and right. In fact, it becomes a little annoying just how righteous he is - at least in his own eyes and the eyes of the author. The truth is that he's astonishingly manipulative and Machiavellian. Ends, in this case, virtually always justify the means; the token protests and qualms are just that - tokens, not to be taken as serious obstacles. Even within the heavy religious layer, devotion to god takes second place to political need. It wouldn't all be so troublesome if it weren't for the fact that we're clearly meant to see all these decisions as amply justified, because Camber is on the side of Right. He warns against Deryni exploitation of vulnerable humans, even as he exploits vulnerable humans for his own goals.
There's also a much stronger fascination with clothing than I recalled. If you're not interested in a detailed description of sumptuous religious habiliments, you'll be able to skip long paragraphs.
A big appeal of the books for me was always the magic that later generations were slowly discovering. Here, in the earlier time... they're busy discovering the magic of an earlier generation. And a lot of what they find is both awfully convenient, and thinly described. A couple of warding cubes, a religious invocation, some mumbling, and you're pretty much good to go. Need a particular skill? Camber and crew are bound to discover it just in time.
Don't ruin your memory of this book by re-reading it.
Having deposed a Deryni tyrant, Camber and his family struggle to convince Cinhil, reluctant human king, to accept his new role and stop pining for his calm, monastic life.
One of the things I'd forgotten until this re-read of the serious is just how morally flexible Camber and his crew are. In the first series, Alaric and Morgan see Camber as a legendary figure who could do no wrong. While this trilogy allows for the fact that Camber's just a man, we're clearly still supposed to see him as always on the side of good and right. In fact, it becomes a little annoying just how righteous he is - at least in his own eyes and the eyes of the author. The truth is that he's astonishingly manipulative and Machiavellian. Ends, in this case, virtually always justify the means; the token protests and qualms are just that - tokens, not to be taken as serious obstacles. Even within the heavy religious layer, devotion to god takes second place to political need. It wouldn't all be so troublesome if it weren't for the fact that we're clearly meant to see all these decisions as amply justified, because Camber is on the side of Right. He warns against Deryni exploitation of vulnerable humans, even as he exploits vulnerable humans for his own goals.
There's also a much stronger fascination with clothing than I recalled. If you're not interested in a detailed description of sumptuous religious habiliments, you'll be able to skip long paragraphs.
A big appeal of the books for me was always the magic that later generations were slowly discovering. Here, in the earlier time... they're busy discovering the magic of an earlier generation. And a lot of what they find is both awfully convenient, and thinly described. A couple of warding cubes, a religious invocation, some mumbling, and you're pretty much good to go. Need a particular skill? Camber and crew are bound to discover it just in time.
Don't ruin your memory of this book by re-reading it.
October 30, 2024
I'm rounding up to three stars. I regret that I bought the third book in the trilogy along with this second one because I don't really want to continue with it. This wasn't horrible, but it also wasn't at all what I wanted nor what it could have been. I expected this to go into the building of Cinhil's administration and reforming the laws and whatnot, with an eye to the struggle of preventing a backlash against the Deryni. Instead, it was a story about a really fatuous idea for Camber to fake his death and pretend to be Cullen so that he could get close to Cinhil. That is silly and unnecessarily complicated to me, but it would have been fine if it had otherwise explored the Cinhil's new administration. But then the book is really just about Camber's struggles as Cullen. There were chapters about Christian ecstasy that I had to gloss over because I just didn't care. And Kurtz's exceptionally descriptive writing became tedious to me once it was focused on things that I didn't care about: I often brooded that she was being repetitive and often spending three to five paragraphs discussing someone's inner struggle when one would have easily sufficed. The characters weren't quite flat in the first book, but they felt purely creatures of the plot in this one, so their inner struggles often didn't feel like they matched up to the characterization already established. Overall, it's not a bad book and it had its moments, but it wasn't at all something I wanted and failed to make me care at all about anything in it. I have the third book and might read it eventually out of curiosity since we know that the kingdom turns against the Deryni eventually and it might be interesting to see the seeds of that, but I'm in no rush and it's likely that I'll never get around to it.
April 22, 2025
What a HUGE step down from the last book. This whole thing felt like a side quest. It's starts with them fighting and killing the antagonist who escaped last time. And then the entire rest of the book is Camber UNNECESSARILY taking the place of his dead friend and all the problems that arise because of that. I'll read the 3rd book because it can't get worse than this and I want to see where the story is going.
July 14, 2018
Saint Camber (1978) follows up Camber of Culdi, exploring the early reign of the new king. Fearing a backlash against the Deryni, because the king rightfully resents all his horrible treatment at the hands of Camber, Camber fakes his down death, and from there, thing spiral slow, very slowly, quite slowly, out of control.
If've you've gotten this far, you already know Kurtz's wordy style, which you either like or don't like. If you like her wordy style, you'll add on stars to this review, but if you don't love a wordy style, then the book is better skimmed. Overall, the plot arc is a little bit more complex than the first book in the series, but not by much. Much of the world building can be flat-out ignored as most of it is sufficiently well covered in the dialog, and you can pick up the rest by context.
The plot rattles around like shaking a spray can. At first, the plot didn't rattle, but as the book shook along, the rattles increased into a manic ratta-tat-tat. It's a good enough plot, but not one designed to grab and hold your attention. It doesn't so much have plot twists as plot gentle curves, well graded, and easily driven through.
For me, the work wasn't compelling, so I skimmed it in a few hours.
If've you've gotten this far, you already know Kurtz's wordy style, which you either like or don't like. If you like her wordy style, you'll add on stars to this review, but if you don't love a wordy style, then the book is better skimmed. Overall, the plot arc is a little bit more complex than the first book in the series, but not by much. Much of the world building can be flat-out ignored as most of it is sufficiently well covered in the dialog, and you can pick up the rest by context.
The plot rattles around like shaking a spray can. At first, the plot didn't rattle, but as the book shook along, the rattles increased into a manic ratta-tat-tat. It's a good enough plot, but not one designed to grab and hold your attention. It doesn't so much have plot twists as plot gentle curves, well graded, and easily driven through.
For me, the work wasn't compelling, so I skimmed it in a few hours.
April 7, 2016
Cinhil would be entirely believable if he was 12. He is merely incredibly annoying and improbable at 43.
Camber would be entirely believable as a somewhat confused young man of late teens or early twenties (who is assured that his way is the ONLY way). He is merely incredibly annoying and improbable at 59.
The book opens with Camber getting seriously injured on behalf of Cinhil. His reaction, knowing that the latter dislikes and distrusts all the Deryni? Hide the injury until he's left the room.
The characters have some meaningful insights, but then they repeat them over and over and over again.
There were a handful of quotes which made me literally cringe, but I neglected to highlight them right then (the one significant flaw of paper books) so you will have to subject yourselves to the entire book to see.
Overall, an incredibly weak story, based on a ridiculously weak premise, and the main plot point is (surprise!) entirely spoiled by the book's title.
Apparently the prequels were written after the other trilogy, and the originals were slightly better, so I'll give those a shot, but overall I am incredibly disappointed.
Camber would be entirely believable as a somewhat confused young man of late teens or early twenties (who is assured that his way is the ONLY way). He is merely incredibly annoying and improbable at 59.
The book opens with Camber getting seriously injured on behalf of Cinhil. His reaction, knowing that the latter dislikes and distrusts all the Deryni? Hide the injury until he's left the room.
The characters have some meaningful insights, but then they repeat them over and over and over again.
There were a handful of quotes which made me literally cringe, but I neglected to highlight them right then (the one significant flaw of paper books) so you will have to subject yourselves to the entire book to see.
Overall, an incredibly weak story, based on a ridiculously weak premise, and the main plot point is (surprise!) entirely spoiled by the book's title.
Apparently the prequels were written after the other trilogy, and the originals were slightly better, so I'll give those a shot, but overall I am incredibly disappointed.
May 11, 2019
After 30+ years, I decided to re-read the Deryni series, but this second book of the Legends of Camber of Culdi prequel trilogy has brought that project to a halt. It's not that the books are poorly written - characters are well-defined, reasonably motivated, and articulate, but a bit dull. The settings are detailed, and there aren't gaping holes in the plot. It's just that not much happens, the supernatural powers the Deryni enjoy aren't that super, and the pace is mostly plodding. Much time and detail is spent exploring the functioning of the church, modeled on Roman Catholicism, and for me that wasn't particularly interesting, and has sent me on to other reading pursuits.
April 19, 2018
Personally I found this a trifle boring, too much emphasis on clerical affairs and intricacies to hold my interest for long and I still don't feel any engagement with the characters
October 16, 2020
How can you not love the story of how the greatest character in the Deryni universe of Katherine Kurtz came to be known as “Saint” Camber of Culdi. Not to be missed. Truly a classic!
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July 9, 2023This is not the first time I have read this book...or any of Ms. Kurtz's books. In fact, it's probably the third or fourth. But Katherine Kurtz has a wonderful way of pulling me into her stories of the fictional kingdom of Gwynedd...a kingdom of Deryni (magical) and non-magical humans which can't help but bring to mind the Arthurian legends. Ms. Kurtz herself, in her dedications of her books, says that she has had a long intellectual love affair with the medieval world and its church, and this is so very readily apparent in her Gwynedd novels. The way she interweaves both magic and Catholic religious views and practices is nothing short of magic in itself, and perhaps this is a large part of what has always drawn me to her work. I have always had a "love affair" with the idea of true magic but my spiritual upbringing taught me that magic did not truly exist but that if it did, it was evil. Thus the attraction of Ms. Kurtz's books for me...a world where both magic AND religious devotion existed and co-existed, side by side and in harmony. This is actually the second book in the first trilogy of Ms. Kurtz's long series of books on Gwynedd and its various kings...but mainly about the fortunes (and quite often misfortunes) of the gifted Deryni folk that populate her novels.
I would have read the first book of this series...Camber of Culdi first but I lost my copy in a recent flood so until I could get another copy of the first book, I reread the second. The first book tells the story of a Deryni...Camber MacRorie...and the fight of his family and Deryni friends to oust a Deryni pretender king (Imre) from the throne of Gwynedd. It is Camber...with the help of family and friends...who do oust Imre and his sister (Ariella) from the throne of Gwynedd. But before they do, they have to come up with a legitimate replacement...a Haldane king where there has been none in recent memory. Their search for an heir to accomplish the Haldane Restoration takes them to the sole remaining male Haldane...Father Benedict, a monk. They kidnap Father Benedict, make him understand the situation and the kingdom's plight, and with Father Benedict's grudging acceptance and using their Deryni powers, bring forth the "Haldane" potential...a power that lies hidden within the Haldane males until it is called forth by the appropriate Deryni ceremony. The Haldane power itself, in the right individual, can rival that of any Deryni...but the new king, King Cinhil, doesn't really want to be king. Yes, he has the Haldane powers but he doesn't want them and doesn't know what to do with them. He only wants to return to the monastic life. This, in a nutshell, is what happens in the first book. Of course, the book itself is far more satisfying and has all the richness of historical and liturgical detail that Ms. Kurtz is famous for but I wanted to give a preface to my review of Saint Camber for those reading this review.
On to Saint Camber, which starts in the capital city of Valoret after King Imre has been killed and his sister Ariella (pregnant with her brother's child) has been driven from Gwynedd into neighboring Torenth. King Cinhil and his advisers...Earl Camber of Culdi, his son, Father Joram MacRorie of the Michaeline Order of warrior priests (similar to the Knights Templar??), Rhys Thuryn, a young Deryni healer (and son-in-law of Camber), Jebediah of Alcara, the Deryni Grand Master of the militant Knights of St. Michael, Alister Cullen, the Deryni Vicar General of the Michaeline Order, and Guaire of Arliss, a young, non-Deryni and one of a very few men of the last regime to retain a position in the court...are considering their options for war against Ariella and her new allies. To leave her to gather strength and more allies is unthinkable...she is as strong a Deryni as any serving with King Cinhil...and her allies in Torenth are also strong Deryni. More troubling is the fact that she is pregnant with her brother's child who, when born, could have a potential claim on the throne of Gwynedd if King Cinhil should have no legitimate heir. No...leaving Ariella alone is out of the question!! So the first part of the book deals with bringing the armies of Gwynedd together to finally end any claim Ariella and her family might have on the throne. King Cinhil still wants nothing but to return to being a priest although he realizes that he now has no choice in the matter...but he does harbor increasing ill-will toward Camber and the other Deryni who took him from his chosen calling and thrust him into a kingship that he didn't want. As a result, Camber...and his family...Joram, Rhys, and Evaine (Camber's daughter and Rhys' wife)...use their considerable Deryni skills in the background (and without King Cinhil's knowledge) to do everything they can to "stack the deck" in Gwynedd's favor. One night, the four of them perform a ceremony to try to "reach out and touch" Ariella in the hopes of obtaining valuable information as to her location and possibly her battle plans. The effort is successful...to a degree! Camber, supported magically by his family, is able to reach Ariella's mind and learn some of what he needs. But, just when he is starting to feel safe "looking" through Ariella's mind, he finds that she was asleep, and she suddenly awakens, becoming aware of his intrusion. Camber barely escapes having his mind captured or, worse, ripped apart by Ariella but he has gained valuable information that allows King Cinhil and his armies to move forward.
SPOILER ALERT! DON'T READ FURTHER IF YOU WANT TO BE SURPRISED BY THE REMAINDER OF THE BOOK!!
Of course, if the book and series are to proceed, Gwynedd is victorious...but not without cost. Father Alistair Cullen, the only Deryni that King Cinhil even marginally trusts...is killed in a "duel arcane" between himself and Ariella. Camber and Joram rush to aid Cullen, and Ariella is killed. But Cullen cannot be saved. Even as Cullen lies dying, Camber realizes what Cullen's loss could mean to all Deryni with their king becoming more and more anti-Deryni due to his bitterness about being "forced" to become king. As abhorrent as it is to him and his son, Joram, with Joram's help, Camber links himself with Cullen's mind even as it is dying, to merge their minds, their personalities, even their souls, and Camber takes on the physical appearance of Cullen. The body of Cullen takes on the visage of Camber. Thus it became that Camber of Culdi dies and Alistair Cullen, Vicar General and good friend of the king, lives.
The rest of the book, as you might surmise, is about Camber's life as Alistair Cullen, coming to grips with the fact that Camber, having only been invested as a deacon in the Church, has taken on the life of a bishop of the Church and the Vicar General of the Knights of St. Michael. How he does this, becomes close to the king, and slowly incorporates both his life and that of Alistair Cullen into one comprise the end of the book. Needless to say, there are a lot of surprises, both pleasant and not so pleasant, along the way...with the biggest being Camber of Culdi being put up for sainthood!! Camber, Joram, Rhys, Evaine, and a handful of others know Camber is not dead and is most definitely not a saint...but how to discourage this without revealing all the deceptions and half-truths leaves everyone desperate! Not only are they afraid of the potential effects on their mortal kingdom if Camber is exposed but Camber himself is terrified that he may lose his immortal soul if he continues with his charade. What can he do? Well...read the book for the answer!
I would have read the first book of this series...Camber of Culdi first but I lost my copy in a recent flood so until I could get another copy of the first book, I reread the second. The first book tells the story of a Deryni...Camber MacRorie...and the fight of his family and Deryni friends to oust a Deryni pretender king (Imre) from the throne of Gwynedd. It is Camber...with the help of family and friends...who do oust Imre and his sister (Ariella) from the throne of Gwynedd. But before they do, they have to come up with a legitimate replacement...a Haldane king where there has been none in recent memory. Their search for an heir to accomplish the Haldane Restoration takes them to the sole remaining male Haldane...Father Benedict, a monk. They kidnap Father Benedict, make him understand the situation and the kingdom's plight, and with Father Benedict's grudging acceptance and using their Deryni powers, bring forth the "Haldane" potential...a power that lies hidden within the Haldane males until it is called forth by the appropriate Deryni ceremony. The Haldane power itself, in the right individual, can rival that of any Deryni...but the new king, King Cinhil, doesn't really want to be king. Yes, he has the Haldane powers but he doesn't want them and doesn't know what to do with them. He only wants to return to the monastic life. This, in a nutshell, is what happens in the first book. Of course, the book itself is far more satisfying and has all the richness of historical and liturgical detail that Ms. Kurtz is famous for but I wanted to give a preface to my review of Saint Camber for those reading this review.
On to Saint Camber, which starts in the capital city of Valoret after King Imre has been killed and his sister Ariella (pregnant with her brother's child) has been driven from Gwynedd into neighboring Torenth. King Cinhil and his advisers...Earl Camber of Culdi, his son, Father Joram MacRorie of the Michaeline Order of warrior priests (similar to the Knights Templar??), Rhys Thuryn, a young Deryni healer (and son-in-law of Camber), Jebediah of Alcara, the Deryni Grand Master of the militant Knights of St. Michael, Alister Cullen, the Deryni Vicar General of the Michaeline Order, and Guaire of Arliss, a young, non-Deryni and one of a very few men of the last regime to retain a position in the court...are considering their options for war against Ariella and her new allies. To leave her to gather strength and more allies is unthinkable...she is as strong a Deryni as any serving with King Cinhil...and her allies in Torenth are also strong Deryni. More troubling is the fact that she is pregnant with her brother's child who, when born, could have a potential claim on the throne of Gwynedd if King Cinhil should have no legitimate heir. No...leaving Ariella alone is out of the question!! So the first part of the book deals with bringing the armies of Gwynedd together to finally end any claim Ariella and her family might have on the throne. King Cinhil still wants nothing but to return to being a priest although he realizes that he now has no choice in the matter...but he does harbor increasing ill-will toward Camber and the other Deryni who took him from his chosen calling and thrust him into a kingship that he didn't want. As a result, Camber...and his family...Joram, Rhys, and Evaine (Camber's daughter and Rhys' wife)...use their considerable Deryni skills in the background (and without King Cinhil's knowledge) to do everything they can to "stack the deck" in Gwynedd's favor. One night, the four of them perform a ceremony to try to "reach out and touch" Ariella in the hopes of obtaining valuable information as to her location and possibly her battle plans. The effort is successful...to a degree! Camber, supported magically by his family, is able to reach Ariella's mind and learn some of what he needs. But, just when he is starting to feel safe "looking" through Ariella's mind, he finds that she was asleep, and she suddenly awakens, becoming aware of his intrusion. Camber barely escapes having his mind captured or, worse, ripped apart by Ariella but he has gained valuable information that allows King Cinhil and his armies to move forward.
SPOILER ALERT! DON'T READ FURTHER IF YOU WANT TO BE SURPRISED BY THE REMAINDER OF THE BOOK!!
Of course, if the book and series are to proceed, Gwynedd is victorious...but not without cost. Father Alistair Cullen, the only Deryni that King Cinhil even marginally trusts...is killed in a "duel arcane" between himself and Ariella. Camber and Joram rush to aid Cullen, and Ariella is killed. But Cullen cannot be saved. Even as Cullen lies dying, Camber realizes what Cullen's loss could mean to all Deryni with their king becoming more and more anti-Deryni due to his bitterness about being "forced" to become king. As abhorrent as it is to him and his son, Joram, with Joram's help, Camber links himself with Cullen's mind even as it is dying, to merge their minds, their personalities, even their souls, and Camber takes on the physical appearance of Cullen. The body of Cullen takes on the visage of Camber. Thus it became that Camber of Culdi dies and Alistair Cullen, Vicar General and good friend of the king, lives.
The rest of the book, as you might surmise, is about Camber's life as Alistair Cullen, coming to grips with the fact that Camber, having only been invested as a deacon in the Church, has taken on the life of a bishop of the Church and the Vicar General of the Knights of St. Michael. How he does this, becomes close to the king, and slowly incorporates both his life and that of Alistair Cullen into one comprise the end of the book. Needless to say, there are a lot of surprises, both pleasant and not so pleasant, along the way...with the biggest being Camber of Culdi being put up for sainthood!! Camber, Joram, Rhys, Evaine, and a handful of others know Camber is not dead and is most definitely not a saint...but how to discourage this without revealing all the deceptions and half-truths leaves everyone desperate! Not only are they afraid of the potential effects on their mortal kingdom if Camber is exposed but Camber himself is terrified that he may lose his immortal soul if he continues with his charade. What can he do? Well...read the book for the answer!
November 14, 2017
This is an interesting book. The only real villain isn't really in this story, leaving many of the main protagonists to also be one the main antagonists. It kind of gives new meaning to being ones own worst enemy.
One thing that always remains true throughout the Deryni novels is the respect and reverence given to the Christian religion in these novels. As religion played such an important role during the time that these novels were set, it only makes sense on one hand, but on the other, this is a fantasy world, and the author could take great liberty and have taken all, and any of this story, in any direction. Mrs. Kurtz has kept the religious aspects of her story for this time period true to the facts that described the corruption and power struggle between church and state. She has obviously done her homework.
This is a very fast moving, action packed, and enjoyable book! A great compliment to the previous Deryni novels. A must read and a guaranteed favorite of all ages.
One thing that always remains true throughout the Deryni novels is the respect and reverence given to the Christian religion in these novels. As religion played such an important role during the time that these novels were set, it only makes sense on one hand, but on the other, this is a fantasy world, and the author could take great liberty and have taken all, and any of this story, in any direction. Mrs. Kurtz has kept the religious aspects of her story for this time period true to the facts that described the corruption and power struggle between church and state. She has obviously done her homework.
This is a very fast moving, action packed, and enjoyable book! A great compliment to the previous Deryni novels. A must read and a guaranteed favorite of all ages.
August 28, 2020
Even better than Camber of Culdi; Kurtz has introduced her characters and setting to the reader, and weaves a more twisted, involved plot. Shades of Hamlet make a nice touch in places. As always, Kurtz's world is very realistically Medieval, complete with royal and Church intrigues--the latter a rare find in the fantasy genre. Her characters come alive and keep the reader engaged. In short, she tells a good story and tells it well. I quibble a little that both Father Joram and King Cinhil too easily overlook the wrongs done to them in the book's climax, especially since it is out of character for both of them to absorb such slights soundlessly, but even a more in-character reaction from them would not necessarily have altered the plot or outcomes in any substantial way. The book definitely leaves the reader wondering which way Kurtz will take the trilogy's final book, with ample foreshadowing for either of two obvious alternatives. However, the book satisfies the reader in itself, neither requiring the reader to have read the first one (though it is better to have read it), nor leaving the reader completely unfulfilled should he or she not get to the next one right away. A good read!
June 16, 2019
I loved this series once. Now it's maaadening. I can't remember the last time I talked out loud to a book, saying "No shit, Sherlock" to our heroes.
Camber is presented as the greatest statesman in the land, and that (presumably) is enough reason for us to forgive the manipulation, deception, mind-warping, and death threats to those who trust him. It's certainly presented as such. If you have a problem with one of your allies, the only reason not to wipe their memory and implant better thoughts are logistical. The good guys are the ones mounting heads on spikes and crucifying the opposing army after battles. Camber makes a split-second decision to mount a Grand Deception, and it's a good thing? I'm just having a problem with it all.
Yes, the book is essentially modeled after medieval Europe, and that sort of post-war violence might have been commonplace, but it's still off-putting.
Camber is presented as the greatest statesman in the land, and that (presumably) is enough reason for us to forgive the manipulation, deception, mind-warping, and death threats to those who trust him. It's certainly presented as such. If you have a problem with one of your allies, the only reason not to wipe their memory and implant better thoughts are logistical. The good guys are the ones mounting heads on spikes and crucifying the opposing army after battles. Camber makes a split-second decision to mount a Grand Deception, and it's a good thing? I'm just having a problem with it all.
Yes, the book is essentially modeled after medieval Europe, and that sort of post-war violence might have been commonplace, but it's still off-putting.
June 16, 2018
The politics of the Church, as well as the politics of Gwynedd, take center stage in this second book of the trilogy. I found this to be a slower read than I remembered from decades ago. My reading tastes have also changed a bit perhaps because the minutiae of the various Deryni workings became tedious to me.
I also find it difficult to empathize with Cinhil's treatment of his queen. Granted, he had never planned to marry, yet he did for the good of his kingdom. He becomes a capable ruler without any serious attempt to allow his wife to help him in that role, even though he sees a role model of a marriage partnership in Rhys and Evaine.
Since I had a couple of books reserved at the library that just dropped into my online account, I'll be leaving Gwynedd for a while. I'm not sure if I will rush back into any of the Deryni books...
I also find it difficult to empathize with Cinhil's treatment of his queen. Granted, he had never planned to marry, yet he did for the good of his kingdom. He becomes a capable ruler without any serious attempt to allow his wife to help him in that role, even though he sees a role model of a marriage partnership in Rhys and Evaine.
Since I had a couple of books reserved at the library that just dropped into my online account, I'll be leaving Gwynedd for a while. I'm not sure if I will rush back into any of the Deryni books...
February 27, 2019
Continuing the story of Camber. It was a page-turner for sure, though on the slow side at times. Camber is a compelling character because everything that goes wrong or right for him is a result of his planning. He is definitely not the usual slave of destiny and fortune; he makes his own luck, and if it goes badly, he has only himself to blame. He's even self-aware enough to admit that.
His acolytes, followers, and helpers are all a bit more enamored of him than is perhaps healthy, and the longer he schemes, the more some of them drift away from his vision. Cinhil is definitely better than the Festils, but that's a low bar indeed!
His acolytes, followers, and helpers are all a bit more enamored of him than is perhaps healthy, and the longer he schemes, the more some of them drift away from his vision. Cinhil is definitely better than the Festils, but that's a low bar indeed!
December 10, 2024
I like this series, (I am reading the series in chronological order, so this was my second book) But I did not like the premise of this book. The entire plot was based on a decision that didn't make a lot of sense. Then went through so much stuff just to slightly maybe have a better effect. It felt weak. The only real interesting part of the plot was over in first 100iah pages, then it was just religious ceremonies. I will read the next one, I like the writing style, and the political intrigue., but I hope plot improves
March 16, 2024
Second book in the series. Very good writing. Again very heavily Catholic. Camber has raised Cinhill to the throne, but Cinhill remains angry with Camber because of having been ripped from his priesthood and the peace of the monastery. When Camber chooses to take the form of the bishop who died fighting the remnants of Cinhill's predecessor's army, Camber is forced to give up his own life to become the bishop and remain in place as an advisor to Cinhill.
November 24, 2020
Not really my cup of tea, but the whole "Saint Camber" aspect was amusing enough, even if I didn't care for the rest of the plot. The book really is a product of its time, though. What bothers me is the violation Camber and the other Dernyi have for other people's consent, and how they rationalize it in the name of the greater good.
October 13, 2020
This was a re-read, and I don't think I enjoyed it as much as I did 25 or 30 years ago. It didn't grab me the same way, but I plan to re-read the whole series, and then donate them to the library sale.
December 22, 2025
The detailed rituals are frankly boring. Plus stylistically it is not as good as the first one. The excruciating detail is obviously filler. It needs less piety and ritual and more politics. After all, Camber and some of the others are way too bright to be so churchy
February 12, 2018
Middle books in trilogies can be frustrating, but this novel manages to advance the plot without a huge cliffhanger. Can the drama be sustained with the final book in the trilogy?
May 10, 2019
My favorite Deryni book so far
Read
February 14, 2021If Deryni were real, they'd be absolutely terrifying. I can't decide if this plot is more horrific or farcical, but Kurtz somehow manages to keep me reading, and she even offers us moments of beauty.
May 1, 2021
Stopped readin Kurtz here, for reasons I stated in my review of Camber of CUldi
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