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Counterpoints
Are Miraculous Gifts for Today?: Four Views
Did miraculous gifts cease after the first century? Are modern-day experiences of tongues, prophecy, and gifts of healing really from God? In an attempt to clarify the current debate for readers, leading representatives of the four major views present arguments for their beliefs and have a chance to respond to the others.
The four views are: Cessationist (Gaffin), Open but Cautious (Saucy), Third Wave (Storms), and Pentecostal/Charismatic (Oss).
368 pages, Paperback
First published October 10, 1996
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July 31, 2020
I entered this book wanting to leave with a fairly well-cemented view on what I personally thought about the spiritual gifts and their continuation today. Now I haven’t exactly left with that, but I have left with one conviction that I’m pretty certain of - I don’t think I’ll ever be a cessationist. That’s essentially the one thing that seemed clear throughout my reading of the book. Comparatively, the cessationist argument (Richard B. Gaffin) just doesn’t seem to hold up, basically because it lacks scriptural support. Some of its main arguments are arguments from silence, yet the continuationist argument certainly isn't silent. Sure, on its own the cessationist view point is well and good, and definitely makes life simple, but next to solid continuationist arguments, it feels like it falls short.
The open but cautious argument by Robert L. Saucy took me by surprise in some ways, because it was far more cautious than I had expected. Saucy is essentially in agreement with Gaffin on everything, except at the end he’s like - “but I’m still somewhat open” - at least that’s the impression he gives. Going forward I guess I’ll sit somewhere between Saucy’s and Storm’s views - better safe than sorry right? But who knows, I’ll probably read this in a few years and think differently, knowing me.
In terms of the book itself, it’s fantastic structurally and well written, especially Sam Storm’s essay, which is probably the easiest of the lot to read. The four viewpoint format is super helpful and I would love to get my hands on some more books that follow a similar structure. Possibly the highlight of the book however, was the constant affirmation of each of the writers unity with one another, through Christ. Regardless of the disagreements, all of the writers had a high view of scripture and elevated the importance of their oneness in Christ, which was a good time.
The open but cautious argument by Robert L. Saucy took me by surprise in some ways, because it was far more cautious than I had expected. Saucy is essentially in agreement with Gaffin on everything, except at the end he’s like - “but I’m still somewhat open” - at least that’s the impression he gives. Going forward I guess I’ll sit somewhere between Saucy’s and Storm’s views - better safe than sorry right? But who knows, I’ll probably read this in a few years and think differently, knowing me.
In terms of the book itself, it’s fantastic structurally and well written, especially Sam Storm’s essay, which is probably the easiest of the lot to read. The four viewpoint format is super helpful and I would love to get my hands on some more books that follow a similar structure. Possibly the highlight of the book however, was the constant affirmation of each of the writers unity with one another, through Christ. Regardless of the disagreements, all of the writers had a high view of scripture and elevated the importance of their oneness in Christ, which was a good time.
July 3, 2021
I just finished "Are Miraculous Gifts For Today: Four Views," edited by Stanley N. Gundry, and Wayne A. Grudem; contributors are as follows: for the "ain't nobody got time for that nonsense" school of cessationism, Richard B. Gaffin, Jr. From the "I knew a guy who was healed and I somewhat trust him but he still owes me $20" school of open-caution, Robert L. Saucy. From the "Pour some sugar on me," third wave Charismatic school, C. Samuel Storms. And finally from the "your supernatural is my natural" Pentecostal/Charismatic, Douglas A. Oss.
I believe that these "Views" books are one of the best ideas by the leading publishers, this specific one by Zondervan; but IVP, Baker and a couple other publishers also have them. The idea is to come up with a great theological topic people are passionate about, where there are some polar opposite views, then schedule a grand prix cage match. That's this book. And the topic is Miraculous Gifts.
The form is of fifty page length essays the writers wrote the topics they had to deal with were as follows: baptism in/of the Spirit and the question of post conversion experiences; have some gifts ceased; discussion of special gifts such as prophecy, healing and tongues; practical implications for church life; dangers of one's own position and that of the others. Each author got an eight page reply to the other three authors.
A Cessationist View
Richard B. Gaffin, Jr.
The first thing I notice about this presentation is that he is stealing from open theism to defend his view (hes Presbyterian). "...the Spirit has sovereignly chosen to "box" Himself in...," p 25. Compare to "God knows all of reality, the future isnt real and He created it that way; God is self limited...," Me, just now.
He does hold that there is nothing more miraculous than the Spirit making a sinner live and He does this today. Regardless of tradition I doubt one would disregard the general/prevenient grace of God by His Spirit.
His first major point is that the historical Pentecost belongs to the historia salutis (salvation history: those things that happened in history so that it would be avaliable to mankind) rather than the ordo salutis (order of salvation: what must I do to be saved?) Personally it's a new approach, one I've yet to see someone pull. I think the rebuttals will make a good claim using Peter's own language.
Further down Gaffin claims that he doesnt believe miracles (he defined this as when God does something less common or extraordinary and highly unusual) have ceased; this is not about whether but which. I believe, and always have believed, this line of thought is a cop-out. It is a hat-tip to the Spirit with no "demand." It is an intellectual checking of the box without the experiential proof.
It seems his case lands firmly on an argument that falls like this: if the gifts havent ceased then we still have apostles; if we still have apostles then the canon is not closed; if the canon is not closed then anyone can write anything claiming apostolic authority and it just is at that point.
I am glad he didnt link his position with 1 Cor. 13:8-10 "when the perfect comes..." as though the "perfect" was the close of the canon. His exegesis as far as that is concerned is solid. In fact he said that the only "perfect" which was to come was Christ at His next coming.
Response by Saucy:
While he had some agreements with the previous writer he also pointed out, as I did above, about where was the canonical line drawn, by whom and when? Also it was well said that there are very specific prophecies in scripture which cant be measured by scripture. So the rule applied to modern prophets was not one those in scripture always lived with. Again, a man made rule which scripture doesnt apply against itself.
Response by Storms:
Storms well responds that the cessationist position is not full blown deistic rationalism, but if something can be naturally explained [away] it ought to be. He draws the distinction between his Charismatic culture and Gaffin's cessationist culture by saying that Gaffin looks for the natural too much where the Charismatic may look to the superior too much. While this may be true I would rather give God the praise for what may have been a "natural" explanation than chalk up a supernatural occurrence to the natural and leave God out of it.
In speaking to how Gaffin separated salvation history from the order of salvation Storms says that Peter said "this is that" per Joel, and this is for you and your children and all those who come after. That is a very astute rebuttal.
Response by Oss:
Like the response by Storms, Oss states that when Peter said "this is that" he is saying that though Pentecost is a salvation history event it is also a order of salvation process. Linking with Joel and stating that it is for all mankind whosoever choose Christ, "this is truly that" and that which is to come; there is a synthesis between the history and the order of salvation.
An Open but Cautious View
Robert L. Saucy
He begins by saying that he believes that a two stage conversion where one receives the baptism in/by/with the Spirit subsequent to conversion is misguided. (For a very good look at this position--against subsequence--from inside classical Pentecostalism see Gordon Fee). Saucy claims that Acts 2 was for the Jews, Acts 8 was for the half Jews (Samarians), from Acts 10 on we can see the Gentiles able to jump in the mix, though as a separate Spiritual experience, no, we dont see that as we do for the other two groups. His claim is that what can be seen as normative today is the gift (singular) of the Spirit is simultaneous with conversion. (I would add that episodes of "filling" by the Spirit, when and how He pleases, I believe are totally open; one who questions subsequence does not question the validity of the Spirit's power.)
Saucy divides biblical history into three phases of the miraculous: Moses, Elisha/Elijah, and Jesus and the Apostles. Really this comes down to saying if the last one mentioned has a expiration date before the eschaton.
He gives experience the nod of approval because someone has to begin somewhere. How did the Hebrews KNOW Moses was the one sent for them, etc, until there was enough experience to compile it into scripture. So he questions ones epistemological base (scripture) until he finds what it is built on (experience) and says that experience can be good enough for us too at times (totally my interpretation of this argument thus far).
This guy just cant pick a side. He is using a bad argument here: just because scripture doesnt say the gifts will pass away doesnt mean they will stay either. Let's use another practice as substitute here: just because scripture doesnt say singing songs, hymns and spiritual songs (pick your variable here) will cease doesnt mean they are to continue either. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
So he ends up with we really dont know. I wonder if he ever got married?
Again he really allows post scriptural concepts to influence how he sees gifts. Because scripture must be inerrant then that means no flaws at all. So the type of prophecy involved in getting us inerrant scripture (apostolic) and the "rest" must be of a different sort, a blending. But this is invoking different categories into the question. Scripture doesnt claim what he claims it is. He burdens it beyond what it says so that he can split prophecy into kinds of higher and lower magnitudes.
Response by Gaffin:
Due to Saucy leaning so close to the cessationist side Gaffin mainly praises his essay until one reads Gaffin on Saucy where exorcism is upheld as a Pneumatic-led activity. At that point Gaffin has to chastise Saucy.
We pray for someone to be healed (emphasis on "pray") and God does that apart from other human interaction and these two yell miracle. Anything else that is God working through man and they make one think we are talking about a "different spirit."
Response by Storms:
Just off the bat Storms says that never is apostleship called charisma so linking the office to gifts is taken as a false necessity. But separation between the apostleship and the gifts allows the canon to be closed but not the gifts.
Response by Oss:
I think one thing that was quite good was Oss' use of Luther was great. I would think he doesnt lean on Luther like some but showing how the Church historically at different stages has thought about miracles is a wonderful tool. Besides it's like turning a tool against them: they, not the Pentecostal tradition, relies quite heavily on the tradition. Not just Luther but Calvin, Knox, Hus and Wycliffe. I think I get it now: the 8 pages allocated to critique should be a manner of also expanding ones argument, not just criticizing the other argument. Good job.
A Third Wave View
C. Samuel Storms:
Storms begins by stating he believes Spirit Baptism is metaphorical to what happens at conversion. Also, one can be "filled" many times post conversion. So empowering and conversion go together, with the expectation of subsequent Empowerings (fillings).
When dealing with the claim that miracles were isolated to three periods of time, where are the historical cessationist? We hear of Jesus being amazed at the lack of faith but not that amazement that Jesus was working miracles--as in "that's just not done."
His sections on tongues, healing and prophecy is the best and most insightful I have read.
This was a very good and thorough look at miraculous gifts today.
Response by Gaffin:
Gaffin is saving trees with a dual attack after the Pentecostal Charismatic (Oss) essay.
Response by Saucy:
Mostly Saucy agrees with Storms with the exception of the charismata being the norm for today. Saucy would replace norm with apparent.
Another place of disagreement between to two is Storms states that prophecy is divine revelation which is pure, but it has to travel through the fallible mechanism of the human. Saucy thinks this is just wrong, but I believe if one were to scratch Saucy hard enough his reservations have more to do with scriptural inerrancy than anything. To ignore this vital aspect of how prophecy "travels" ignores mans freewill and leads to a divine dictation form of prophecy.
Otherwise what I see is Saucy really wishes he were in Storms shoes.
Response by Oss:
These two are in great agreement with the disputes coming down to how the terminology of Spirit baptism is used.
A Pentecostal Charismatic View
Douglas A. Oss:
To clear the air Oss begins by stating that no classical Pentecostal would deny that upon conversion the person receives the Holy Spirit. The post conversion experience is the gift of Empowering for witness and service. This subsequence he labels as extra conversional; the Empowering usually or often happens at the same time as conversion. And reempowering or refilling is something that is common in the life of the believer.
Oss presents 1 Cor 12:13 (...baptized by one Spirit....). He states that this leads one to accept that we are either baptized into this sphere or element. The other option is that it is by His agency that one is baptized. Whichever of these two options one leans towards it doesnt nullify Spirit baptism.
Speaking of the initial physical evidence (IPE) he maintains that a classical Pentecostal view is based on this historical revelation rather than prepositional. This is a position I have a new found respect for. He begins a quick look at in-house IPE research. I think Fee's position against subsequence has really rocked the boat and this is why there is in-house conversations.
Good point made: historically when the Spirit comes on someone their speech is impacted. For instance, the Spirit would come on a prophet and his message would be from the Spirit; the Spirit impacts speech. The point made is that this common identification from the Old Testament is part and parcel for the Spirit falling on new believers in Acts.
Great point in here: no one ever read scripture and decided the girts of the Spirit have ceased. That happened by experience and the experience was backward read into scripture. He really has a wonderful line of thought going on here dealing with Peter working off Joel and how Jesus is the Davidic fulfillment as King for a Davidic Kingdom.
(I just looked, this is the only book Oss has written in part or whole. We are missing out on a wonderful mind. Please write more.)
While dealing with some of the objects that can be raised with 1Cor Oss states that Paul was not chastising the Corinthians because they used the gifts but because they abused them.
"In my opinion, these cessationistic issues are born out of the contemporary church; it simply would not have occurred to people in the early church to expect or consider anything other than an empowered existence," p 275. Thats Gold.
One observation Oss makes for Charismata in the church today is that when Paul is dealing with faith vs works in Gal 3:5 he says do you work miracles because of faith or because you kept the law. This example ties an eternal theological truth (faith over works) with miracles. If miracles were thought to fade away then what about this whole faith vs works?
This essay was quite good and humble.
Response (to Storms and Oss) by Gaffin:
Among other things it seems Gaffin is leaning of the Apostolic clause: if the office of the apostle has ceased.... I believe this is weak because there have been all manner of prophets with Christ as the greatest plus. But were there prophets after Christ? Just because the twelve were special in a way does that mean there shall not be others?
Response by Saucy:
He thought the coverage on Spirit baptism was thin, maybe he believed Oss used words without giving them substance first so that we the reader could have the nuanced version of the classical Pentecostal position. Saucy argues that where Oss has two distinct Spirit "fillings" as primary but one salvific and the other subsequent one Empowering, he believes that a single "filling" for salvation and empowerment is the correct answer. This line of thought about getting "caught at a mid way point" has been why I have learned Saucy's direction on this specific point.
Response by Storms:
The main difference between these two is Storms doesnt believe tongues is the initial evidence of Spirit Baptism.
This "views" book was expanded and allowed for counter rebuttal which made it 50 pages too long.
I believe that these "Views" books are one of the best ideas by the leading publishers, this specific one by Zondervan; but IVP, Baker and a couple other publishers also have them. The idea is to come up with a great theological topic people are passionate about, where there are some polar opposite views, then schedule a grand prix cage match. That's this book. And the topic is Miraculous Gifts.
The form is of fifty page length essays the writers wrote the topics they had to deal with were as follows: baptism in/of the Spirit and the question of post conversion experiences; have some gifts ceased; discussion of special gifts such as prophecy, healing and tongues; practical implications for church life; dangers of one's own position and that of the others. Each author got an eight page reply to the other three authors.
A Cessationist View
Richard B. Gaffin, Jr.
The first thing I notice about this presentation is that he is stealing from open theism to defend his view (hes Presbyterian). "...the Spirit has sovereignly chosen to "box" Himself in...," p 25. Compare to "God knows all of reality, the future isnt real and He created it that way; God is self limited...," Me, just now.
He does hold that there is nothing more miraculous than the Spirit making a sinner live and He does this today. Regardless of tradition I doubt one would disregard the general/prevenient grace of God by His Spirit.
His first major point is that the historical Pentecost belongs to the historia salutis (salvation history: those things that happened in history so that it would be avaliable to mankind) rather than the ordo salutis (order of salvation: what must I do to be saved?) Personally it's a new approach, one I've yet to see someone pull. I think the rebuttals will make a good claim using Peter's own language.
Further down Gaffin claims that he doesnt believe miracles (he defined this as when God does something less common or extraordinary and highly unusual) have ceased; this is not about whether but which. I believe, and always have believed, this line of thought is a cop-out. It is a hat-tip to the Spirit with no "demand." It is an intellectual checking of the box without the experiential proof.
It seems his case lands firmly on an argument that falls like this: if the gifts havent ceased then we still have apostles; if we still have apostles then the canon is not closed; if the canon is not closed then anyone can write anything claiming apostolic authority and it just is at that point.
I am glad he didnt link his position with 1 Cor. 13:8-10 "when the perfect comes..." as though the "perfect" was the close of the canon. His exegesis as far as that is concerned is solid. In fact he said that the only "perfect" which was to come was Christ at His next coming.
Response by Saucy:
While he had some agreements with the previous writer he also pointed out, as I did above, about where was the canonical line drawn, by whom and when? Also it was well said that there are very specific prophecies in scripture which cant be measured by scripture. So the rule applied to modern prophets was not one those in scripture always lived with. Again, a man made rule which scripture doesnt apply against itself.
Response by Storms:
Storms well responds that the cessationist position is not full blown deistic rationalism, but if something can be naturally explained [away] it ought to be. He draws the distinction between his Charismatic culture and Gaffin's cessationist culture by saying that Gaffin looks for the natural too much where the Charismatic may look to the superior too much. While this may be true I would rather give God the praise for what may have been a "natural" explanation than chalk up a supernatural occurrence to the natural and leave God out of it.
In speaking to how Gaffin separated salvation history from the order of salvation Storms says that Peter said "this is that" per Joel, and this is for you and your children and all those who come after. That is a very astute rebuttal.
Response by Oss:
Like the response by Storms, Oss states that when Peter said "this is that" he is saying that though Pentecost is a salvation history event it is also a order of salvation process. Linking with Joel and stating that it is for all mankind whosoever choose Christ, "this is truly that" and that which is to come; there is a synthesis between the history and the order of salvation.
An Open but Cautious View
Robert L. Saucy
He begins by saying that he believes that a two stage conversion where one receives the baptism in/by/with the Spirit subsequent to conversion is misguided. (For a very good look at this position--against subsequence--from inside classical Pentecostalism see Gordon Fee). Saucy claims that Acts 2 was for the Jews, Acts 8 was for the half Jews (Samarians), from Acts 10 on we can see the Gentiles able to jump in the mix, though as a separate Spiritual experience, no, we dont see that as we do for the other two groups. His claim is that what can be seen as normative today is the gift (singular) of the Spirit is simultaneous with conversion. (I would add that episodes of "filling" by the Spirit, when and how He pleases, I believe are totally open; one who questions subsequence does not question the validity of the Spirit's power.)
Saucy divides biblical history into three phases of the miraculous: Moses, Elisha/Elijah, and Jesus and the Apostles. Really this comes down to saying if the last one mentioned has a expiration date before the eschaton.
He gives experience the nod of approval because someone has to begin somewhere. How did the Hebrews KNOW Moses was the one sent for them, etc, until there was enough experience to compile it into scripture. So he questions ones epistemological base (scripture) until he finds what it is built on (experience) and says that experience can be good enough for us too at times (totally my interpretation of this argument thus far).
This guy just cant pick a side. He is using a bad argument here: just because scripture doesnt say the gifts will pass away doesnt mean they will stay either. Let's use another practice as substitute here: just because scripture doesnt say singing songs, hymns and spiritual songs (pick your variable here) will cease doesnt mean they are to continue either. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
So he ends up with we really dont know. I wonder if he ever got married?
Again he really allows post scriptural concepts to influence how he sees gifts. Because scripture must be inerrant then that means no flaws at all. So the type of prophecy involved in getting us inerrant scripture (apostolic) and the "rest" must be of a different sort, a blending. But this is invoking different categories into the question. Scripture doesnt claim what he claims it is. He burdens it beyond what it says so that he can split prophecy into kinds of higher and lower magnitudes.
Response by Gaffin:
Due to Saucy leaning so close to the cessationist side Gaffin mainly praises his essay until one reads Gaffin on Saucy where exorcism is upheld as a Pneumatic-led activity. At that point Gaffin has to chastise Saucy.
We pray for someone to be healed (emphasis on "pray") and God does that apart from other human interaction and these two yell miracle. Anything else that is God working through man and they make one think we are talking about a "different spirit."
Response by Storms:
Just off the bat Storms says that never is apostleship called charisma so linking the office to gifts is taken as a false necessity. But separation between the apostleship and the gifts allows the canon to be closed but not the gifts.
Response by Oss:
I think one thing that was quite good was Oss' use of Luther was great. I would think he doesnt lean on Luther like some but showing how the Church historically at different stages has thought about miracles is a wonderful tool. Besides it's like turning a tool against them: they, not the Pentecostal tradition, relies quite heavily on the tradition. Not just Luther but Calvin, Knox, Hus and Wycliffe. I think I get it now: the 8 pages allocated to critique should be a manner of also expanding ones argument, not just criticizing the other argument. Good job.
A Third Wave View
C. Samuel Storms:
Storms begins by stating he believes Spirit Baptism is metaphorical to what happens at conversion. Also, one can be "filled" many times post conversion. So empowering and conversion go together, with the expectation of subsequent Empowerings (fillings).
When dealing with the claim that miracles were isolated to three periods of time, where are the historical cessationist? We hear of Jesus being amazed at the lack of faith but not that amazement that Jesus was working miracles--as in "that's just not done."
His sections on tongues, healing and prophecy is the best and most insightful I have read.
This was a very good and thorough look at miraculous gifts today.
Response by Gaffin:
Gaffin is saving trees with a dual attack after the Pentecostal Charismatic (Oss) essay.
Response by Saucy:
Mostly Saucy agrees with Storms with the exception of the charismata being the norm for today. Saucy would replace norm with apparent.
Another place of disagreement between to two is Storms states that prophecy is divine revelation which is pure, but it has to travel through the fallible mechanism of the human. Saucy thinks this is just wrong, but I believe if one were to scratch Saucy hard enough his reservations have more to do with scriptural inerrancy than anything. To ignore this vital aspect of how prophecy "travels" ignores mans freewill and leads to a divine dictation form of prophecy.
Otherwise what I see is Saucy really wishes he were in Storms shoes.
Response by Oss:
These two are in great agreement with the disputes coming down to how the terminology of Spirit baptism is used.
A Pentecostal Charismatic View
Douglas A. Oss:
To clear the air Oss begins by stating that no classical Pentecostal would deny that upon conversion the person receives the Holy Spirit. The post conversion experience is the gift of Empowering for witness and service. This subsequence he labels as extra conversional; the Empowering usually or often happens at the same time as conversion. And reempowering or refilling is something that is common in the life of the believer.
Oss presents 1 Cor 12:13 (...baptized by one Spirit....). He states that this leads one to accept that we are either baptized into this sphere or element. The other option is that it is by His agency that one is baptized. Whichever of these two options one leans towards it doesnt nullify Spirit baptism.
Speaking of the initial physical evidence (IPE) he maintains that a classical Pentecostal view is based on this historical revelation rather than prepositional. This is a position I have a new found respect for. He begins a quick look at in-house IPE research. I think Fee's position against subsequence has really rocked the boat and this is why there is in-house conversations.
Good point made: historically when the Spirit comes on someone their speech is impacted. For instance, the Spirit would come on a prophet and his message would be from the Spirit; the Spirit impacts speech. The point made is that this common identification from the Old Testament is part and parcel for the Spirit falling on new believers in Acts.
Great point in here: no one ever read scripture and decided the girts of the Spirit have ceased. That happened by experience and the experience was backward read into scripture. He really has a wonderful line of thought going on here dealing with Peter working off Joel and how Jesus is the Davidic fulfillment as King for a Davidic Kingdom.
(I just looked, this is the only book Oss has written in part or whole. We are missing out on a wonderful mind. Please write more.)
While dealing with some of the objects that can be raised with 1Cor Oss states that Paul was not chastising the Corinthians because they used the gifts but because they abused them.
"In my opinion, these cessationistic issues are born out of the contemporary church; it simply would not have occurred to people in the early church to expect or consider anything other than an empowered existence," p 275. Thats Gold.
One observation Oss makes for Charismata in the church today is that when Paul is dealing with faith vs works in Gal 3:5 he says do you work miracles because of faith or because you kept the law. This example ties an eternal theological truth (faith over works) with miracles. If miracles were thought to fade away then what about this whole faith vs works?
This essay was quite good and humble.
Response (to Storms and Oss) by Gaffin:
Among other things it seems Gaffin is leaning of the Apostolic clause: if the office of the apostle has ceased.... I believe this is weak because there have been all manner of prophets with Christ as the greatest plus. But were there prophets after Christ? Just because the twelve were special in a way does that mean there shall not be others?
Response by Saucy:
He thought the coverage on Spirit baptism was thin, maybe he believed Oss used words without giving them substance first so that we the reader could have the nuanced version of the classical Pentecostal position. Saucy argues that where Oss has two distinct Spirit "fillings" as primary but one salvific and the other subsequent one Empowering, he believes that a single "filling" for salvation and empowerment is the correct answer. This line of thought about getting "caught at a mid way point" has been why I have learned Saucy's direction on this specific point.
Response by Storms:
The main difference between these two is Storms doesnt believe tongues is the initial evidence of Spirit Baptism.
This "views" book was expanded and allowed for counter rebuttal which made it 50 pages too long.
July 9, 2014
I have never really enjoyed reading the "views" books. Why? Primarily because it seems the authors can easily talk past one another with not enough opportunity to challenge the cross examinations. I would generally rather read book long treatments on each position for various views. However, this is the best "views" book I have read (to be transparent, I have not read multitudes of them so the strengths listed here may be the norm that I have to this point not experienced). In this book an author wrote their position paper and then had each other author respond. Then, final statements were given after the authors spent some time together in a retreat to discuss further. Finally the editor summed things up. I must say that Grudem did a good job summarizing and not coming down on one side though he obviously is in the 3rd wave camp. I also found it helpful that in essence on many issues there were two views (Gaffin and Saucy representing more of cessationism while Storms and Oss represented continuationism). I felt my own personal position of cessationism was represented well in this volume.
Read
February 21, 2022are miraculous gifts for today? yeah, probably.
I gotta say I was not expecting a compelling cessationist argument nor did I realize I agreed so much with ‘third wave’ theologians on pneumatology. never heard the term before, but I really appreciated that essay from Dr. Storms.
+ it’s nice to hear kind theologians dialogue and offer ideas to one another while they disagree on many fronts.
this book would be benefited by the viewpoint of a missionary scholar or at least a foreign scholar that is on the scene where most miraculous activity appears to take place these days. one of the scholars (Saucy) references this other reality, but is unable to speak to it.
therefore, I’d like to hear the view of someone that is in the Church where the Church ain’t welcome. I’m (perhaps mistakenly?) inclined to think that God really likes giving them some crazy gifts.
I gotta say I was not expecting a compelling cessationist argument nor did I realize I agreed so much with ‘third wave’ theologians on pneumatology. never heard the term before, but I really appreciated that essay from Dr. Storms.
+ it’s nice to hear kind theologians dialogue and offer ideas to one another while they disagree on many fronts.
this book would be benefited by the viewpoint of a missionary scholar or at least a foreign scholar that is on the scene where most miraculous activity appears to take place these days. one of the scholars (Saucy) references this other reality, but is unable to speak to it.
therefore, I’d like to hear the view of someone that is in the Church where the Church ain’t welcome. I’m (perhaps mistakenly?) inclined to think that God really likes giving them some crazy gifts.
November 21, 2024
Grudem, Wayne. Ed. Our Miraculous Gifts for Today? Four Views. Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
Zondervan’s Counterpoints series is a noble idea. Unfortunately for most of these volumes, they are often poorly executed. This one is not. Regardless of one’s position, each view is capably argued. Richard Gaffin argues for the view that all miraculous gifts have ceased. Robert Saucy, noting the Scripture never says that, remains open but cautious, if more cautious than open. Sam Storms, representing the Third Wave charismatic view, argues for the continuation of all gifts. Douglass Oss, a traditional (Trinitarian) Pentecostal, agrees with Storms but makes a distinction between conversion and baptism in the Holy Spirit.
I will put my cards on the table. Storms wins this debate and it is not even close. I am not saying that because I agree with Storms. I do not. I think he is wrong on prophecy and tongues, but in terms of argument he has the most cogent position.
Cessationist view
Gaffin argues that Pentecost is a unique moment in salvation history. The apostles primarily exercise these gifts, but when those who also exercise these gifts, they are doing so because they are in proximity to the apostles.
As is the case with everyone in this debate, everything hinges on what “miracle” means. For Gaffin, a miracle is “when God does something ‘less common’ or ‘extraordinary’ and ‘highly unusual.’” Gaffin also notes he does not deny that God heals miraculously today. When it comes to the list of gifts in 1 Cor., on the other hand, he argues that those still fall within the apostolic purview. In any case, Gaffin is not interested in arguing that miracles and healing no longer exist, only that the “word gifts” do.
Because the church is built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, and because those are “word offices,” the word gifts have ceased (otherwise, we are building two foundations). That is probably the best argument for cessationism in my opinion.
The next argument, however, is not so good. For Gaffin, all miracles in the New Testament “fall under the apostolic umbrella.” This is simply special pleading, or at worst begging the question.
Evaluation: I actually agree with the essence of his argument regarding Pentecost. I think he needs to word it differently. He claims “Pentecost completes Christ’s finished work of salvation.” I agree. I just do not think it cashes out as neatly in the book of Acts. For example, when we see later accounts of people speaking in tongues, Gaffin would argue that this is the historical application of Pentecost in Acts. Perhaps it is, but his language about Pentecost suggests something far neater and far more “closed.”
Nonetheless, in footnote 81 Gaffin correctly rebuts the claim that the “perfect” in 1 Corinthians 13 refers to the canon.
So what does Gaffin say about those miraculous episodes in the book of Acts that have nothing to do with the Apostles? They are apostolic “aftershocks” (My word, not his). I think he realizes his argument is too neat, for he notes “It would certainly be wrong to argue…that Luke intended to show that miraculous gifts and power experiences ceased with the history he documented.”
Responses
Saucy: He agrees with Gaffin’s view but points out that Gaffin’s conclusions go beyond the evidence. He specifically questions Gaffin’s claim “that all prophecy was tethered to redemptive revelation.” For example, it is hard to see how Philip’s daughters were tied to redemptive revelation.
Storms: Pentecost cannot be a “once-for-all” redemptive event for the simple reason that it is the first stage of the Spirit’s work. More specifically, Gaffin “isolates one function of miraculous phenomena, ties it in with the period in which it occurs, and then concludes it can have no other function.” Even worse, on Gaffin’s reading it is not clear why those other than the apostles do miraculous works. Saying they are “under the apostolic umbrella” begs the very question and is ad hoc at best.
Moreover, whatever Ephesians 2:20 means, it is not clear how “the exposure of an unbeliever’s secret sins…functions in laying the once for all foundation of the universal church.”
Open But Cautious (Saucy)
Main argument: there is no need for a “second blessing” experience because all believers have a relationship with the Spirit.
Second argument: miracles in the bible “cluster” around key moments of redemptive history. As others will note, that is a bad argument on two fronts: for one, it is not true. Secondly, it is irrelevant in terms of logical inference.
By and large, Saucy has by far the weakest essay. I do not mean that in a pejorative sense, though it is certainly unpersuasive. Rather, it is weak in the sense of limited claims.
Gaffin’s response: Gaffin inadvertently ends up claiming miracles cannot happen today. I know he says the miraculous does happen, but if he insists that miracles are “always tethered to revelation,” and revelation is closed, then miracles are closed. Full stop.
Storms’s response: Neither Gaffin nor Saucy explain how an apostle “apostles” in a way analogous to how a teacher “teaches.” Moreover, if apostleship is a gift, and Paul tells the Corinthians to “eagerly desire the greater gifts,” then he is telling the Corinthians to desire to be apostles!
In response to another cessationist talking point, such that we do not see anyone having a special healing ministry, neither do we see special ministries of other gifts: e.g., mercy, giving, and faith.
A Charismatic View by Sam Storms.
Storms immediately attacks the “cluster” argument: All that the “cluster” argument proves is that miracles in the Old Testament were…well…clustered together. It specifically does not prove that they never occurred elsewhere in redemptive history. In fact, Jeremiah 32:20 specifically refutes the cluster view: God specifically says he is continuing to work miracles to this day.
As to whether seeking a miracle is sinful, Storms notes that the only people in the New Testament who were rebuked for seeking a sign were unbelieving Jewish leaders, not ordinary Christianss.
In other works, Storms dealt with “words of wisdom/knowledge.” What is a “word of wisdom?” The NT does not say, but we can hazard a good guess. Words of wisdom seem to be knowing the thoughts of others, whereas prophecy is a revelation from God. If this is true, then “words of wisdom” cannot be considered revelation and cannot add to the canon.
A Pentecostal View by Douglas Oss
There is not much to add to Storms’s essay, but Oss makes a few cogent points about biblical narrative. Cessationists will say that one cannot derive doctrine from narrative. By contrast, the apostle James points to the narrative of Elijah’s miraculous ministry and asserts that our prayers can be like that, too. Even more, that passage is directly connected with the healing passage in James 5.
Conclusion
As I have said above, Storms has the best essay. The only points cessationists can still make regard prophecy and continuing revelation. I do think continuing prophecy is a relatively unstable concept today, but for reasons I will not get into here.
Zondervan’s Counterpoints series is a noble idea. Unfortunately for most of these volumes, they are often poorly executed. This one is not. Regardless of one’s position, each view is capably argued. Richard Gaffin argues for the view that all miraculous gifts have ceased. Robert Saucy, noting the Scripture never says that, remains open but cautious, if more cautious than open. Sam Storms, representing the Third Wave charismatic view, argues for the continuation of all gifts. Douglass Oss, a traditional (Trinitarian) Pentecostal, agrees with Storms but makes a distinction between conversion and baptism in the Holy Spirit.
I will put my cards on the table. Storms wins this debate and it is not even close. I am not saying that because I agree with Storms. I do not. I think he is wrong on prophecy and tongues, but in terms of argument he has the most cogent position.
Cessationist view
Gaffin argues that Pentecost is a unique moment in salvation history. The apostles primarily exercise these gifts, but when those who also exercise these gifts, they are doing so because they are in proximity to the apostles.
As is the case with everyone in this debate, everything hinges on what “miracle” means. For Gaffin, a miracle is “when God does something ‘less common’ or ‘extraordinary’ and ‘highly unusual.’” Gaffin also notes he does not deny that God heals miraculously today. When it comes to the list of gifts in 1 Cor., on the other hand, he argues that those still fall within the apostolic purview. In any case, Gaffin is not interested in arguing that miracles and healing no longer exist, only that the “word gifts” do.
Because the church is built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, and because those are “word offices,” the word gifts have ceased (otherwise, we are building two foundations). That is probably the best argument for cessationism in my opinion.
The next argument, however, is not so good. For Gaffin, all miracles in the New Testament “fall under the apostolic umbrella.” This is simply special pleading, or at worst begging the question.
Evaluation: I actually agree with the essence of his argument regarding Pentecost. I think he needs to word it differently. He claims “Pentecost completes Christ’s finished work of salvation.” I agree. I just do not think it cashes out as neatly in the book of Acts. For example, when we see later accounts of people speaking in tongues, Gaffin would argue that this is the historical application of Pentecost in Acts. Perhaps it is, but his language about Pentecost suggests something far neater and far more “closed.”
Nonetheless, in footnote 81 Gaffin correctly rebuts the claim that the “perfect” in 1 Corinthians 13 refers to the canon.
So what does Gaffin say about those miraculous episodes in the book of Acts that have nothing to do with the Apostles? They are apostolic “aftershocks” (My word, not his). I think he realizes his argument is too neat, for he notes “It would certainly be wrong to argue…that Luke intended to show that miraculous gifts and power experiences ceased with the history he documented.”
Responses
Saucy: He agrees with Gaffin’s view but points out that Gaffin’s conclusions go beyond the evidence. He specifically questions Gaffin’s claim “that all prophecy was tethered to redemptive revelation.” For example, it is hard to see how Philip’s daughters were tied to redemptive revelation.
Storms: Pentecost cannot be a “once-for-all” redemptive event for the simple reason that it is the first stage of the Spirit’s work. More specifically, Gaffin “isolates one function of miraculous phenomena, ties it in with the period in which it occurs, and then concludes it can have no other function.” Even worse, on Gaffin’s reading it is not clear why those other than the apostles do miraculous works. Saying they are “under the apostolic umbrella” begs the very question and is ad hoc at best.
Moreover, whatever Ephesians 2:20 means, it is not clear how “the exposure of an unbeliever’s secret sins…functions in laying the once for all foundation of the universal church.”
Open But Cautious (Saucy)
Main argument: there is no need for a “second blessing” experience because all believers have a relationship with the Spirit.
Second argument: miracles in the bible “cluster” around key moments of redemptive history. As others will note, that is a bad argument on two fronts: for one, it is not true. Secondly, it is irrelevant in terms of logical inference.
By and large, Saucy has by far the weakest essay. I do not mean that in a pejorative sense, though it is certainly unpersuasive. Rather, it is weak in the sense of limited claims.
Gaffin’s response: Gaffin inadvertently ends up claiming miracles cannot happen today. I know he says the miraculous does happen, but if he insists that miracles are “always tethered to revelation,” and revelation is closed, then miracles are closed. Full stop.
Storms’s response: Neither Gaffin nor Saucy explain how an apostle “apostles” in a way analogous to how a teacher “teaches.” Moreover, if apostleship is a gift, and Paul tells the Corinthians to “eagerly desire the greater gifts,” then he is telling the Corinthians to desire to be apostles!
In response to another cessationist talking point, such that we do not see anyone having a special healing ministry, neither do we see special ministries of other gifts: e.g., mercy, giving, and faith.
A Charismatic View by Sam Storms.
Storms immediately attacks the “cluster” argument: All that the “cluster” argument proves is that miracles in the Old Testament were…well…clustered together. It specifically does not prove that they never occurred elsewhere in redemptive history. In fact, Jeremiah 32:20 specifically refutes the cluster view: God specifically says he is continuing to work miracles to this day.
As to whether seeking a miracle is sinful, Storms notes that the only people in the New Testament who were rebuked for seeking a sign were unbelieving Jewish leaders, not ordinary Christianss.
In other works, Storms dealt with “words of wisdom/knowledge.” What is a “word of wisdom?” The NT does not say, but we can hazard a good guess. Words of wisdom seem to be knowing the thoughts of others, whereas prophecy is a revelation from God. If this is true, then “words of wisdom” cannot be considered revelation and cannot add to the canon.
A Pentecostal View by Douglas Oss
There is not much to add to Storms’s essay, but Oss makes a few cogent points about biblical narrative. Cessationists will say that one cannot derive doctrine from narrative. By contrast, the apostle James points to the narrative of Elijah’s miraculous ministry and asserts that our prayers can be like that, too. Even more, that passage is directly connected with the healing passage in James 5.
Conclusion
As I have said above, Storms has the best essay. The only points cessationists can still make regard prophecy and continuing revelation. I do think continuing prophecy is a relatively unstable concept today, but for reasons I will not get into here.
May 25, 2025
Those searching for ammunition with which to bombard the other side will most likely come away from this book disappointed. Personally, the usefulness of this excellent volume was to demonstrate (perhaps unintentionally) that the debate is not really about the scriptural evidence for either position. Rather, the core issue is how we see the Bible. The first two of the four “conclusion” sections at the end of the book were the most insightful of all the chapters in this reader’s opinion.
December 9, 2025
An excellent resource for understanding the range of views on the topic of the miraculous gifts
January 7, 2016
I thought that this was a great book as an introduction to the discussion of the cessation or continuation of the revelatory/miraculous gifts specifically tongues, interpretation of tongues and prophecy.
Each author took about 50 pages to make a case for his particular position. I thought that the gentlemen were truly considered each other as brothers and the interaction was respectful.
There are good arguments on both sides obviously. Once I read Dr. Gaffin's chapter, I thought: "yep, I'm becoming a cessationist," and then I read the responses and think "ah man, how am I gonna come to a position?" What that says is that there are good arguments on both sides and also good counter-arguments. You need to prayerfully consider this and go to the Scriptures obviously.
I believe that Dr. Gaffin made an excellent case for cessationism, likewise Dr. Storms and Dr. Oss. I liked their essays and their interaction with each other.
What troubled me was the "Open but Cautious" view represented by Dr. Saucy. This is the first time that I've read him and the others (except Storms), but his view felt to me as depressing. I had a hard time reading through his responses and essay. While he says that he's open, but cautious, as I perceive and understand what he was saying is that he is a practical cessationist. He argues against the continuationist side like a cessationist and lives like a cessation, yet does not want to be called a cessation because there is not an explicit verse which says that the gifts will continue. But...he also doubts if the Bible says that they will continue.
I believe that this was a pretty good introduction to the cessationist side by Dr. Gaffin as well as by the continuationist side by Dr. Storms and Dr. Oss. From this now I know what the basic arguments are and what the basic positions are and can further my study.
I currently have multiple books on my shelf from both sides including Dr. Gaffin's Perspectives on Pentecost which I hope to read sometime soon.
As of now, I'm convinced by the continuationist case.
Each author took about 50 pages to make a case for his particular position. I thought that the gentlemen were truly considered each other as brothers and the interaction was respectful.
There are good arguments on both sides obviously. Once I read Dr. Gaffin's chapter, I thought: "yep, I'm becoming a cessationist," and then I read the responses and think "ah man, how am I gonna come to a position?" What that says is that there are good arguments on both sides and also good counter-arguments. You need to prayerfully consider this and go to the Scriptures obviously.
I believe that Dr. Gaffin made an excellent case for cessationism, likewise Dr. Storms and Dr. Oss. I liked their essays and their interaction with each other.
What troubled me was the "Open but Cautious" view represented by Dr. Saucy. This is the first time that I've read him and the others (except Storms), but his view felt to me as depressing. I had a hard time reading through his responses and essay. While he says that he's open, but cautious, as I perceive and understand what he was saying is that he is a practical cessationist. He argues against the continuationist side like a cessationist and lives like a cessation, yet does not want to be called a cessation because there is not an explicit verse which says that the gifts will continue. But...he also doubts if the Bible says that they will continue.
I believe that this was a pretty good introduction to the cessationist side by Dr. Gaffin as well as by the continuationist side by Dr. Storms and Dr. Oss. From this now I know what the basic arguments are and what the basic positions are and can further my study.
I currently have multiple books on my shelf from both sides including Dr. Gaffin's Perspectives on Pentecost which I hope to read sometime soon.
As of now, I'm convinced by the continuationist case.
January 20, 2025
Great book, great authors. I can't remember if this was deliberately excluded during the introduction, but, I would find it helpful for the continuationists to provide modern examples of the miraculous they believe to be akin to the first century church. Then, to have Gaffin and Saucy respond. This is something that vexes me. Having been involved in the charismatic/pentecostal church (and even studied at one of its internationally renowned institutions in New Zealand) for two years, I cannot claim one instance of genuine "1st century" activity. It sounds harsh, but aside from the excitement and energy, the charismatic church is still cessationist in actual experience and practicalities.
will-not-finish
June 14, 2023Every argument seemed so convoluted. I don't know if they were writing in a particularly dense style or if I simply am not learned enough to comprehend. I read about half before deciding to return to the library.
June 29, 2021
I recently realized that my theology of the Holy Spirit is relatively shallow, including when it came to the so-called “miraculous gifts” of the Spirit. So I picked up this book hoping to get a sense of the different arguments and the general counter-arguments offered for each one. It did not disappoint. I loved the format of this book, where theologians with 4 different perspectives (cessationist, open but cautious, third wave, and Pentecostal) wrote essays flushing out each of their positions, and the other three all offered responses to these essays. It was very helpful for someone who is trying to figure out what he thinks about this issue.
For context, I had always just assumed that the gifts continued to the present age, but was unfamiliar with the biblical argument for this position AND the biblical argument for cessationism. I was never one to actively pursue these gifts, and over time grew very skeptical and cynical with those who claimed to exercise them. So I wanted answers. Did the gifts cease? If not, to what extent should they be exercised today? Here are my takeaways from this book:
1. I’m not a cessationist. While I understand the perspective, this argument for this position seemed strained at best and overall unsupported by the text. It reads things into the text that don’t seem to be there, and draws conclusions that I don’t think need to be drawn. For example, one oversimplified argument goes that prophecy served as a sign that showed the authenticity of the apostles mission. Because the apostles are no longer here, the purpose for this gift is now unnecessary, and it has therefore ceased. But is this the ONLY purpose of this gift? The entire conclusion rests on this assumption, and there is nothing in the text to support it. In fact, there are passages that seem to directly contradict it.
2. Open-but-cautious seems like the most inconsistent and unbiblical position of them all. As far as I see it, either the gifts ceased, in which case we shouldn’t worry about them, or they continued and we should pursue them. This seems like an attempt to find a middle ground that lacks scriptural support.
3. Calling these gifts “miraculous” seems arbitrary. I don’t see why they should be any more miraculous than the transformation of a dead heart to one that worships the living God.
4. I’m uncomfortable with the idea of fallible prophecy. In my mind, if it’s fallible, it’s not prophecy. Nowhere in scripture is there a category for this. However, just because something came from God, does not mean that the doctrine of the closed canon is at risk. If it either contradicts God’s word, or adds to it by revealing some new theological doctrines/ expanding upon existing ones, then it’s not prophecy.
While I’m still not sure exactly where I stand, I seem to fall near Sam Storms perspective, though I didn’t agree with everything he said either. That makes me uncomfortable, but it was still the best argument from scripture. But I also really appreciate the other perspectives presented in this book. If anything, this helped get a clearer idea of what I believe, while appreciating that faithful brothers and sisters will land in different places. I’d recommend this book to anyone who wants hear solid arguments from other perspectives, or who wants to develop their own theology of the Holy Spirit.
For context, I had always just assumed that the gifts continued to the present age, but was unfamiliar with the biblical argument for this position AND the biblical argument for cessationism. I was never one to actively pursue these gifts, and over time grew very skeptical and cynical with those who claimed to exercise them. So I wanted answers. Did the gifts cease? If not, to what extent should they be exercised today? Here are my takeaways from this book:
1. I’m not a cessationist. While I understand the perspective, this argument for this position seemed strained at best and overall unsupported by the text. It reads things into the text that don’t seem to be there, and draws conclusions that I don’t think need to be drawn. For example, one oversimplified argument goes that prophecy served as a sign that showed the authenticity of the apostles mission. Because the apostles are no longer here, the purpose for this gift is now unnecessary, and it has therefore ceased. But is this the ONLY purpose of this gift? The entire conclusion rests on this assumption, and there is nothing in the text to support it. In fact, there are passages that seem to directly contradict it.
2. Open-but-cautious seems like the most inconsistent and unbiblical position of them all. As far as I see it, either the gifts ceased, in which case we shouldn’t worry about them, or they continued and we should pursue them. This seems like an attempt to find a middle ground that lacks scriptural support.
3. Calling these gifts “miraculous” seems arbitrary. I don’t see why they should be any more miraculous than the transformation of a dead heart to one that worships the living God.
4. I’m uncomfortable with the idea of fallible prophecy. In my mind, if it’s fallible, it’s not prophecy. Nowhere in scripture is there a category for this. However, just because something came from God, does not mean that the doctrine of the closed canon is at risk. If it either contradicts God’s word, or adds to it by revealing some new theological doctrines/ expanding upon existing ones, then it’s not prophecy.
While I’m still not sure exactly where I stand, I seem to fall near Sam Storms perspective, though I didn’t agree with everything he said either. That makes me uncomfortable, but it was still the best argument from scripture. But I also really appreciate the other perspectives presented in this book. If anything, this helped get a clearer idea of what I believe, while appreciating that faithful brothers and sisters will land in different places. I’d recommend this book to anyone who wants hear solid arguments from other perspectives, or who wants to develop their own theology of the Holy Spirit.
June 25, 2020
The operation and the extent of spiritual gifts in the church is a thorny subject among believers. Debates are often characterized by misrepresentation and judging by association. This book is a great example of how people with differing convictions on non-essential doctrines can still argue for their own positions forcefully and respectfully.
Although I am most closely aligned to Robert Saucy's 'open-but-cautious' perspective, I was greatly impressed by Richard Gaffin's use of a redemptive-historical argument in his essay in support of cessationism.
This book is by no means designed to settle the issue, but it does offer a way forward for good dialogue. I don't share Grudem's enthusiasm that church leadership with diverging views can co-exist and effectually lead a congregation, but at the same time this book demonstrates that this divisive issue need not make fellowship impossible.
Although I am most closely aligned to Robert Saucy's 'open-but-cautious' perspective, I was greatly impressed by Richard Gaffin's use of a redemptive-historical argument in his essay in support of cessationism.
This book is by no means designed to settle the issue, but it does offer a way forward for good dialogue. I don't share Grudem's enthusiasm that church leadership with diverging views can co-exist and effectually lead a congregation, but at the same time this book demonstrates that this divisive issue need not make fellowship impossible.
March 24, 2018
A fascinating read on a doctrinal subject that has interested me for a long time. The format of the book worked very well: each author presents a 40-50 page essay arguing for their view; then after each essay, space is given for the other three authors to critique it; then a section comprised of each author's closing remarks; and finally a concluding section by the editor (Wayne Grudem) summing up the areas of agreement and disagreement among the authors. This allowed for plenty of back-and-forth between the authors, allowing the reader to clearly see the differences in their interpretations of Scripture. Personally, I found Saucy's essay to be the most convincing of the four, as his arguments persuaded me to shift from a more cessationist standpoint to an "open but cautious" view (while still remaining more on the cessationist end of the spectrum; cf. the view of NT scholar Thomas Schreiner, whose view is very similar but still labeled as "cessationism" by Schreiner himself). Gaffin and Storms each did a fine job in their essays. The one that most surprised me, though, was Oss's chapter defending classic Pentecostalism. While ultimately unpersuaded by it, I was impressed with the way he argued from redemptive history and the narrative of Luke-Acts for his view of the empowering work of the Holy Spirit. I appreciated and learned from many of his insights in that chapter, even if I strongly disagree with many of his applications of them. Finally, Grudem's concluding chapter did an excellent job defining the differences in the views and summing up the issues at stake in this debate. This was a much-needed section, as the reader can easily lose track of the big-picture differences in the midst of all the specific exegetical and theological arguments being debated in the essays. Although Grudem himself holds to something akin to Storms's Third Wave view, his descriptions of Gaffin's and Saucy's stances on various issues was spot-on and demonstrates his understanding of views that differ from his own. Ultimately, this book accomplished three things for me: it solidified certain convictions, challenged and caused me to rethink others, and developed in me a greater appreciation for those with convictions different than my own. These, I suspect, were the primary reasons why the book was published in the first place; and for me, it fulfilled them admirably.
May 18, 2015
A volume in the Counterpoints Series. Four biblical interpreters and theologians present four differing views on the role of miraculous gifts described in New Testament documents, and their validity for today.
Interactive
The essays are presented in a talk-back format, characteristic of the Counterpoint series. One writer develops his viewpoint, then each of the others critiques or responds to that viewpoint to counter, clarify, query or disagree.
This format works well here, and each writer formulates his position and discussion with an interactive perspective, referring to the others essayists even as each develops in this discussion.
The way they handle it, this is truly a discussion. Each perspective is evaluated, critiqued and responded to without presumption or prejudice. This is a refreshing characteristic of the Counterpoint series in general. I was impressed by the unfeigned respect and collegiality each of the writers expressed for the other participants. But none stinted on the clarity and pointedness of their distinctive views. This is a very helpful study.
One thing I liked is that except in one case, There is a general openness to the occurrence of miracles and charismatic gifts in today's world. The writers curb the modern dogmatic tendencies that to reject the "superstitious" belief in non-empirical power or even the existence of any unseen realities. This is a healthy perspective.
Abstract
One thing that struck me, however, is that the whole discussion is rather abstract, however active and interpersonal it is. These writers show little if any awareness of the radically different worldview of the society in which the early Christian documents arose.
There are references to the Scriptures, extensive in some cases, but they treat these texts as though they were written by modern rationalist academics to address the same speculative ideas they are interested in.
The Views
The traditional Cessationist View, common in the Calvinist-influenced tradition of western Christianity, is presented by Richard Gaffin. He defends the view that miraculous events stopped after some early point in Christian history.
Robert L Saucy presents an "Open But Cautious View," remaining open to the possibility that God gives special gifts of healing to certain people, even as an ongoing gift or on particular occasions. But Saucy notes that there has been much deception and exploitation under this guise, especially in the last century or so, with professional "healers" staging events and raising enormous sums of money by exploiting the desperate or credulous.
In-House
There is no reference to non-Western forms of Christianity, so this is an "in-house" discussion, basically ignoring non-Anglo-European views. The other historic branches of Christian faith do not handle these questions in the western logical analytical "boxes" preferred in Euro-American Christianity.
The Third Wave writer Samuel Storms seems to have a broader view in this regard, but even then the parameters of the topic arise out of western cultural history and social dynamics.
The representative of the Pentecostal/Charismatic perspective, Douglas A Oss, was also helpful in updating me on the variety of current perspectives within the broad Charismatic or Pentecostal streams. This was a good refresher for me on Pentecostalism in general, contributing some helpful more recent historical factors.
Oss notes that some changes are more subtle formulations of Pentecostal or Charismatic views on the question than I was aware of in the classical positions. As a charismatic Southern Baptist, my view of all the factors differs somewhat from all four of the rather static formulations presented.
Respect but Dissonance with Scripture
There is respect for the scriptures here, but they are not the starting point for the questions. The questions and the whole frame of discussion is set my their speculation. These are, of course, valid questions as far as they go. But they are not questions that arise in the New Testament texts.
These discussions are brought to the texts by cultural values and the more refined abstract values of analytical scholarship. These are very conscientious scholars, and this a characteristic of the modern mindset. This not the frame or format of the New Testament writings.
So What?
Most serious Christian readers in the current generation will tend to say to these topics, "So What?" The younger generations have more of a focus on relational and social moral values more like the biblical viewpoint.
This can be a corrective to the excessive speculations of the Modernist mindset. While many of us enjoy these philosophical puzzles, discussing arcane abstract points of logic, we must keep these in perspective, in the broader scope of life and reality.
In these essays, there is a general acknowledgement of the difference of social and cultural setting in the biblical texts, but even the factors mentioned are basically [pulled out of their context and coopted into the modern western worldview in traditional western Christianity.
This is a primary factor that has led to the "Postmodern" reaction against the abstract thinking of the Modern rational and analytical approach to life. This abstract thinking affects the way moderns approached the Bible. It is subconsciously seen as western scientific fact books, providing abstract information on various topics.
Relational Stories
But when we look at the biblical text, we see this is not the approach there. The Bible is obviously not an encyclopedia, but a dynamic collection of stories. The biblical documents are not written like a topical look-up reference, though they is often treated as one by westerners, despite its format. This is due to the rationalist approach in which schools train young minds, fitting them for the materialist analytical way of thinking. This is not the worldview of the Bible.
The concerns reflect the broader worldview of most of history and human culture today, a relational worldview focus on the moral dynamics of interaction - of humans with God and of humans with humans. This was Jesus' emphasis on the Rule of God in human life, and moral character focusing on relationship are rather than in the first century Roman Empire.
I did really enjoy reading this book, and had a stimulating and enjoyable experience. But this cannot be considered a study of biblical themes or topics, but rather is a philosophical discussion. I am glad I read this, but I would have liked these skilled writers and thinkers to be more aware of the actual intent of the scriptures they reference.
Interactive
The essays are presented in a talk-back format, characteristic of the Counterpoint series. One writer develops his viewpoint, then each of the others critiques or responds to that viewpoint to counter, clarify, query or disagree.
This format works well here, and each writer formulates his position and discussion with an interactive perspective, referring to the others essayists even as each develops in this discussion.
The way they handle it, this is truly a discussion. Each perspective is evaluated, critiqued and responded to without presumption or prejudice. This is a refreshing characteristic of the Counterpoint series in general. I was impressed by the unfeigned respect and collegiality each of the writers expressed for the other participants. But none stinted on the clarity and pointedness of their distinctive views. This is a very helpful study.
One thing I liked is that except in one case, There is a general openness to the occurrence of miracles and charismatic gifts in today's world. The writers curb the modern dogmatic tendencies that to reject the "superstitious" belief in non-empirical power or even the existence of any unseen realities. This is a healthy perspective.
Abstract
One thing that struck me, however, is that the whole discussion is rather abstract, however active and interpersonal it is. These writers show little if any awareness of the radically different worldview of the society in which the early Christian documents arose.
There are references to the Scriptures, extensive in some cases, but they treat these texts as though they were written by modern rationalist academics to address the same speculative ideas they are interested in.
The Views
The traditional Cessationist View, common in the Calvinist-influenced tradition of western Christianity, is presented by Richard Gaffin. He defends the view that miraculous events stopped after some early point in Christian history.
Robert L Saucy presents an "Open But Cautious View," remaining open to the possibility that God gives special gifts of healing to certain people, even as an ongoing gift or on particular occasions. But Saucy notes that there has been much deception and exploitation under this guise, especially in the last century or so, with professional "healers" staging events and raising enormous sums of money by exploiting the desperate or credulous.
In-House
There is no reference to non-Western forms of Christianity, so this is an "in-house" discussion, basically ignoring non-Anglo-European views. The other historic branches of Christian faith do not handle these questions in the western logical analytical "boxes" preferred in Euro-American Christianity.
The Third Wave writer Samuel Storms seems to have a broader view in this regard, but even then the parameters of the topic arise out of western cultural history and social dynamics.
The representative of the Pentecostal/Charismatic perspective, Douglas A Oss, was also helpful in updating me on the variety of current perspectives within the broad Charismatic or Pentecostal streams. This was a good refresher for me on Pentecostalism in general, contributing some helpful more recent historical factors.
Oss notes that some changes are more subtle formulations of Pentecostal or Charismatic views on the question than I was aware of in the classical positions. As a charismatic Southern Baptist, my view of all the factors differs somewhat from all four of the rather static formulations presented.
Respect but Dissonance with Scripture
There is respect for the scriptures here, but they are not the starting point for the questions. The questions and the whole frame of discussion is set my their speculation. These are, of course, valid questions as far as they go. But they are not questions that arise in the New Testament texts.
These discussions are brought to the texts by cultural values and the more refined abstract values of analytical scholarship. These are very conscientious scholars, and this a characteristic of the modern mindset. This not the frame or format of the New Testament writings.
So What?
Most serious Christian readers in the current generation will tend to say to these topics, "So What?" The younger generations have more of a focus on relational and social moral values more like the biblical viewpoint.
This can be a corrective to the excessive speculations of the Modernist mindset. While many of us enjoy these philosophical puzzles, discussing arcane abstract points of logic, we must keep these in perspective, in the broader scope of life and reality.
In these essays, there is a general acknowledgement of the difference of social and cultural setting in the biblical texts, but even the factors mentioned are basically [pulled out of their context and coopted into the modern western worldview in traditional western Christianity.
This is a primary factor that has led to the "Postmodern" reaction against the abstract thinking of the Modern rational and analytical approach to life. This abstract thinking affects the way moderns approached the Bible. It is subconsciously seen as western scientific fact books, providing abstract information on various topics.
Relational Stories
But when we look at the biblical text, we see this is not the approach there. The Bible is obviously not an encyclopedia, but a dynamic collection of stories. The biblical documents are not written like a topical look-up reference, though they is often treated as one by westerners, despite its format. This is due to the rationalist approach in which schools train young minds, fitting them for the materialist analytical way of thinking. This is not the worldview of the Bible.
The concerns reflect the broader worldview of most of history and human culture today, a relational worldview focus on the moral dynamics of interaction - of humans with God and of humans with humans. This was Jesus' emphasis on the Rule of God in human life, and moral character focusing on relationship are rather than in the first century Roman Empire.
I did really enjoy reading this book, and had a stimulating and enjoyable experience. But this cannot be considered a study of biblical themes or topics, but rather is a philosophical discussion. I am glad I read this, but I would have liked these skilled writers and thinkers to be more aware of the actual intent of the scriptures they reference.
February 25, 2020
One of the most divisive debates within the evangelical Christian church in the last century is whether the seemingly more "miraculous" spiritual gifts are for today. Sadly, these debates are often filled with misrepresentations and caricatures of the other side's position. I wanted to read this book to hear the arguments of both cessationists and continuationists in their own words. I was hoping for a back and forth dialogue that allowed the authors to constructively critique and challenge each other's positions. I was not disappointed.
First, I appreciated the selection of the four authors. They represented both ends of the spectrum (a Pentecostal theologian and a cessationist) and two more moderate positions (Third-wave and open but cautious). They were all a solid representations of the theological position they were asked to defend. I found their arguments compelling and could see how each landed where they did based on Scripture.
Secondly, I appreciated the format of the book. Each author laid out an argument for their position in a chapter and the other three authors wrote a rebuttal. This format seemed fair and allowed for constructive dialogue.
I would recommend this book to those who have at least a basic understanding of spiritual gifts and want to hear the various viewpoints from the authors of those viewpoints themselves. The book is definitely not a beginner's guide but I'd recommend it to the average congregation member seeking clarity on this issue. Also, I believe it will help those who already have a theological conviction on this issue but are seeking to better understand the opposing view.
First, I appreciated the selection of the four authors. They represented both ends of the spectrum (a Pentecostal theologian and a cessationist) and two more moderate positions (Third-wave and open but cautious). They were all a solid representations of the theological position they were asked to defend. I found their arguments compelling and could see how each landed where they did based on Scripture.
Secondly, I appreciated the format of the book. Each author laid out an argument for their position in a chapter and the other three authors wrote a rebuttal. This format seemed fair and allowed for constructive dialogue.
I would recommend this book to those who have at least a basic understanding of spiritual gifts and want to hear the various viewpoints from the authors of those viewpoints themselves. The book is definitely not a beginner's guide but I'd recommend it to the average congregation member seeking clarity on this issue. Also, I believe it will help those who already have a theological conviction on this issue but are seeking to better understand the opposing view.
October 10, 2024
Gonna take me a month or two to organise my insights from this book and try make sense of them all. Amazed (and frustrated) by the quality of the arguments made by all of the first three views’ authors, and how much stuff I don’t know or haven’t thought about. Overall, very encouraged by the unity all 4 authors clearly enjoy in spite of their theological differences. I am also greatful for how reading these “[topic]: 4 views” books aren’t necessarily draining, and the degree to which the authors draw and quote from Scripture makes it hard to not become a lot more familiar with a lot of Scripture that I haven’t necessarily properly interacted with before, which is always a good thing!
Some key issues I have identified that I need to look into (in my notes from this book or elsewhere) and want to come to a conclusion on:
1. Is prophecy in the old and new testament of the same kind?
2. Did Paul/Luke consider apostleship to be a gift of the Holy Spirit? (Sam Storms doesn’t think so).
3. Did Agabus’ prophecy contain error or not?
4. Do miracles have one main overarching purpose? (and if yes, is it the authentication of the Gospel?).
5. Does post-canonical prophecy necessarily compromise the sufficiency of scripture (leaning towards no, but unsure).
Will post a proper review of actual arguments in the near future, God willing.
Some key issues I have identified that I need to look into (in my notes from this book or elsewhere) and want to come to a conclusion on:
1. Is prophecy in the old and new testament of the same kind?
2. Did Paul/Luke consider apostleship to be a gift of the Holy Spirit? (Sam Storms doesn’t think so).
3. Did Agabus’ prophecy contain error or not?
4. Do miracles have one main overarching purpose? (and if yes, is it the authentication of the Gospel?).
5. Does post-canonical prophecy necessarily compromise the sufficiency of scripture (leaning towards no, but unsure).
Will post a proper review of actual arguments in the near future, God willing.
September 20, 2024
"Are Miraculous Gifts for Today?: Four Views (Counterpoints Series)" is one of my favorites from the Counterpoints series. The basic format is to have authors write an essay on their view, with responses from each of the other authors. This book follows that format, but then takes another step: Editor Wayne Grudem asked the authors to meet for two days and discuss the issues and misrepresentations of the writers, with each of the four writers and the editor writing concluding comments. The four views are Cessationist (Richard B. Gaffin), Open but Cautious (Robert L. Saucy), Third Wave (C. Samuel Storms), and Pentecostal/Charismatic (Douglas A. Oss).
I normally would consider my view on the gifts to be Calvinist: that God is sovereign, and He is free to cause a gift to cease and to restore a gift that has disappeared. (That's with my tongue in cheek - no, Calvinism doesn't directly deal with spiritual gifts.) The designation "Open but cautious" is more accurate.
Why do I like the book? Because the authors talk about the views as a family squabble between true believers indwelt by the Holy Spirit. That civility is not typical in the age of social media.
I highly recommend this book.
I normally would consider my view on the gifts to be Calvinist: that God is sovereign, and He is free to cause a gift to cease and to restore a gift that has disappeared. (That's with my tongue in cheek - no, Calvinism doesn't directly deal with spiritual gifts.) The designation "Open but cautious" is more accurate.
Why do I like the book? Because the authors talk about the views as a family squabble between true believers indwelt by the Holy Spirit. That civility is not typical in the age of social media.
I highly recommend this book.
August 10, 2024
Although the topic of the continuation (or lack thereof) of miraculous gifts in the church is a highly contentious one, the Counterpoints book on it does a brilliant job in capturing the key arguments of four different perspectives. Each author was afforded the space to articulate their convictions, and they did it well, drawing on the Scriptures and demonstrating where the difference in interpretation lies.
This was the book I feel I needed to read on the topic - it showed the legitimacy of a range of different viewpoints, whilst also providing a helpful imperative for personal reflection regarding which one was the most convincing. I particularly appreciated the authors’ eagerness to affirm their partnership in the gospel in spite of this theological difference (Grudem’s conclusion was particularly helpful in emphasising this), and also their gracious but firm dialogue on this contentious topic.
Highly recommend for anyone interested in exploring the topic of Spiritual gifts further!
This was the book I feel I needed to read on the topic - it showed the legitimacy of a range of different viewpoints, whilst also providing a helpful imperative for personal reflection regarding which one was the most convincing. I particularly appreciated the authors’ eagerness to affirm their partnership in the gospel in spite of this theological difference (Grudem’s conclusion was particularly helpful in emphasising this), and also their gracious but firm dialogue on this contentious topic.
Highly recommend for anyone interested in exploring the topic of Spiritual gifts further!
July 28, 2022
An old but still excellent introduction to the various evangelical positions on miraculous gifts. (If RTS uses it as a textbook for their online classes, it has to be good, right?) All the scholars did well presenting their own views and charitably but vigorously critiquing the others. Many times I felt persuaded by one author’s arguments, only to change my mind again after reading the objections. After working through the entire book, I definitely have a better grasp of the major theological and exegetical issues and feel more settled in my convictions.
As someone who was born and raised in Pentecostalism, I must say, Dr. Oss’s essay surprised me. A Pentecostal scholar who earned his Ph.D. at Westminster, arguing on redemptive-historical grounds for the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and quoting Samuel Rutherford to support the validity of ongoing revelation? Not at all what I expected. May his tribe increase!
As someone who was born and raised in Pentecostalism, I must say, Dr. Oss’s essay surprised me. A Pentecostal scholar who earned his Ph.D. at Westminster, arguing on redemptive-historical grounds for the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and quoting Samuel Rutherford to support the validity of ongoing revelation? Not at all what I expected. May his tribe increase!
April 26, 2022
Too many thoughts for a Good Reads Review.
Valuable book for understanding SOME of the arguments made from these different positions. Certainly there are others who hold similar views to these authors, but for different reasons. The authors interacted decently well with each other. Very dense read, requiring slow, thoughtful interaction. But I felt that some of the important questions the authors raised against each other's views were not finally addressed by the other authors. I guess now I'll just have to do the work of thinking through such questions myself! (what else should I expect when picking up a book!?)
Pretty good read.
Valuable book for understanding SOME of the arguments made from these different positions. Certainly there are others who hold similar views to these authors, but for different reasons. The authors interacted decently well with each other. Very dense read, requiring slow, thoughtful interaction. But I felt that some of the important questions the authors raised against each other's views were not finally addressed by the other authors. I guess now I'll just have to do the work of thinking through such questions myself! (what else should I expect when picking up a book!?)
Pretty good read.
September 5, 2021
A great overview on the issue. However, the exchange between the Pentecostal view and the Third Wave view were not as engaging as I would have liked; those proponents focused much more on their agreements than on their differences. This made it seem more like a 3-views book. The book was also less detailed in argumentation than I had hoped, but it was semi-expected given the synoptic nature of the book.
November 17, 2016
Not an easy read, and I would have got far more out of it if I had sat with my Bible open an a pen and paper. Having said that, it gave me a very good overview of four views on the miraculous spiritual gifts, and a better understanding of the issues at stake. I've not yet come to my own conclusion though.....
May 4, 2021
I read the majority of this. Very helpful overview of the major views on miraculous spiritual gifts from the perspectives of the proponents of those views themselves. The whole effort has the overtones of humility and a striving for unity even with resolved disagreement and some academic roasting of each other here and there.
May 3, 2022
Some of the entries in the counterpoint series feature a variety of views and prominent scholars. This volume does not, and is pretty much confined to the white evangelical world. This is particularly unhelpful in considering the global and charismatic character of world Christianity. If you want to hear what white conservatives in America have to say on this topic, this is your book.
February 3, 2023
This is a very helpful book for understanding the various arguments for different views on miraculous spiritual gifts. I think the biggest benefit I obtained from reading it was recognizing the straw-men that are often thrown around surrounding this topic, on both sides, and I now feel much better equipped to solidify my own view.
June 9, 2024
This book is okay, but it is glaringly lacking that it has no traditional dispensationalist interaction. Throughout all, they assume an inaugurated view of eschatology that sees the kingdom of Christ begun at Acts 2. This oversight is highly problematic and one should look elsewhere for a better debate, and arguably a better argument for cessationism, than what is found here.
September 9, 2025
I've read several of the books in the Counterpoints series. Of the ones I've read, this one was the most approachable for a non-theologian like me and had the most grace on display between authors. It's definitely an interesting read if you're exploring the possibility about miraculous spiritual gifts in modern times.
May 25, 2020
Very helpful! This book changed my mind; I was open but cautious, but now I'd consider myself in the Third Wave camp on this issue. Of course, it's an area of disagreement for good reason, but I am pretty convinced that the Spirit is still handing out the same gifts he just after Pentecost.
November 29, 2020
Quite an interesting read - I've found the "dialogue" between these views very helpful, especially as a 'friendly' introduction to them. The biggest advantage for this kind of format is that you get to see, after each exposition, how other views interact with each other; non-polemic & balanced.
July 12, 2023
Excellent book! Some of the language is a bit technical/dense, but I highly recommend it to anyone struggling with this issue. I have not only grown greatly in my own beliefs about this topic, but I also have a much better and more charitable understanding of the other perspectives.
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