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Socrates' leven en dood
Vertaling van een vijftal dialogen van de Griekse filosoof (428-348 v.Chr.), voornamelijk over het leven van Socrates.
247 pages, Hardcover
First published January 1, 1995
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99 people want to read
About the author
Plato
5,219 books8,640 followersPlato (Greek: Πλάτων), born Aristocles (c. 427 – 348 BC), was an ancient Greek philosopher of the Classical period who is considered a foundational thinker in Western philosophy and an innovator of the written dialogue and dialectic forms. He raised problems for what became all the major areas of both theoretical philosophy and practical philosophy, and was the founder of the Platonic Academy, a philosophical school in Athens where Plato taught the doctrines that would later become known as Platonism.
Plato's most famous contribution is the theory of forms (or ideas), which has been interpreted as advancing a solution to what is now known as the problem of universals. He was decisively influenced by the pre-Socratic thinkers Pythagoras, Heraclitus, and Parmenides, although much of what is known about them is derived from Plato himself.
Along with his teacher Socrates, and Aristotle, his student, Plato is a central figure in the history of philosophy. Plato's entire body of work is believed to have survived intact for over 2,400 years—unlike that of nearly all of his contemporaries. Although their popularity has fluctuated, they have consistently been read and studied through the ages. Through Neoplatonism, he also greatly influenced both Christian and Islamic philosophy. In modern times, Alfred North Whitehead famously said: "the safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato."
Plato's most famous contribution is the theory of forms (or ideas), which has been interpreted as advancing a solution to what is now known as the problem of universals. He was decisively influenced by the pre-Socratic thinkers Pythagoras, Heraclitus, and Parmenides, although much of what is known about them is derived from Plato himself.
Along with his teacher Socrates, and Aristotle, his student, Plato is a central figure in the history of philosophy. Plato's entire body of work is believed to have survived intact for over 2,400 years—unlike that of nearly all of his contemporaries. Although their popularity has fluctuated, they have consistently been read and studied through the ages. Through Neoplatonism, he also greatly influenced both Christian and Islamic philosophy. In modern times, Alfred North Whitehead famously said: "the safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato."
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Displaying 1 - 6 of 6 reviews
July 18, 2022
Erudite and still highly readable, with Symposium as clear stand out for me
This book contained the texts Plato wrote in respect to Socrates, his life and death. The line between the author his views and that of his subject, being his mentor, is hard to make. The texts handle classical and thus universal subjects like the nature of love, morality and the value of laws. To note however is that Socrates his story, being a martyr to philosophy, has some interesting similiarities to the Christ story.
The texts vary in how captivating and accessible they are but overall 3.5 stars.
Symposion - 4.5 stars
Symposium, being a party were people are challenged to praise Love (imagine how you could spice up your dinnerparty conversation if the Greeks did this 2.500 years ago) was definitely the text I liked best in this book.
It has a quite complicated start (“I heard of someone, while walking, that he was at a party with Sokrates, oh tell me more”) but picks up quickly after.
The ancient contradiction between traders and philosophers, material and spiritual progress is already very much present and also very interesting to see these ancient Greeks quoting Homer and recognizing Patroclus as lover of Achilles.
Already also present in the text is the concept of love as an all defeating force, superceding oaths, elevating people from cowards to heroes and earning recognition from the gods when people just follow their heart (but more so the active partner than off course the woman or the passive partner) comes back.
The second story of Pausanias, places love between men above heterosexual relations, as long as the intentions are good and the senior partner falls for the character of the loved one, while the loved one wants to advance his personal development. It sounds rather modern if you forget the way women are treated.
Aristophanes his tale, of people being two halves, divided by the gods and looking for their other halves, very well known, was remarkably touching:
“But if Hephaestus were to come to them with his instruments and propose that they should be melted into one and remain one here and hereafter, they would acknowledge that this was the very expression of their want. For love is the desire of the whole, and the pursuit of the whole is called love.”
Eryximachos takes a more conceptual and broad stand and says that love is the harmony/balance between things, being the basis of music, astronomy, religion and all other relationships. Agathon then praises lyrically the power of love, claiming it is the source of all that it cherishes, from beauty, youth to relations between people.
Sokrates responds with a complex tale, told through a woman educating him, on how Eros is the son of Poverty and Succes, and how love always strives for something it has not yet achieved. This striving creates either physically the future (in the form of children forming new generations) or conceptually through laws, politics or art.
A fascinating definition of love by him is:
“He desires, of course, the possession of the beautiful;—but what is given by that? For the beautiful let us substitute the good, and we have no difficulty in seeing the possession of the good to be happiness, and Love to be the desire of happiness, although the meaning of the word has been too often confined to one kind of love. And Love desires not only the good, but the everlasting possession of the good.”
Socrates meanwhile interrogates his predecessors definitions to get them to see the errors in their reasoning, in a way that reminded me to a detective.
After this we have a strange afterthought in the form of praise on Socrates his rigor as a person by Alcibiades. With as highest achievement how Socrates had not fallen for him, even when he slept naked in one bed with him, showing the mind triumphs the body.
All in all it’s interesting that this work survived through the Christian times, since a lot of the banter alludes very prominently to man having sexual relationships with man.
Euthypro - 2.5 stars
”Is the pious loved by the gods because it is pious? Or is it pious because it is loved by the gods?”
Socrates casually takes apart the circle reasoning of his contemporaries about what piety is (prophetically since he will be charged with heresy claims) when there is a pantheon of gods who often oppose each other. In the end his partner scurries away quickly, feeling deeply uncomfortable with what he thought to know but actually doensn’t.
Defense of Socrates - 3 stars
Again here Socrates is very clever in taking apart the arguments of his advisaries, most apparent when any of them need to explain to the judges what they exactly mean with their accusations.
Also he coins the wisdom that true knowledge is only found by keeping a questioning mind and that only people who realise how little they know are truly wise. His search for truth, regardless of the consequences, is still inspiring in our times of populism and saying what is easy instead of what’s true.
Where he does in my opinion start to lose sympathy is when he compares himself to a god send gift, tasked to challenge society (that is like a lazy horse), which he needs to irritate into action and progress. And that killing him the Athenian populace would upset the gods, since his task of questioning is one from the gods, is also a bit of blackmail.
In the end he loses the verdict and makes himself even more impopular when the vote for the sentencing comes. Here he first says he should be honored in a statehall including being fed by the state. It’s hardly a surprise that his later proposal of a fine is not accepted and he is sentenced to death.
He accepts his fate, the death by poison, and scolds the ones who voted for his death, warning them that they will be questioned by youngsters after his death. Also he states that death will not harm him, as it is either an eternal dreamless slumber or a chance to question all those who have lived before without fear of death and reprecussions.
Kriton - 3.5 stars
Socrates decides not to flee when his friend Kriton offers him the opportunity. The consience, as a judge of someones behavior instead of the popular opinion of the masses is more important to Socrates. Keeping a pureness of mind is more relevant than the survival of the body.
Socrates furthermore espouses on a very personal level the philosophy that an individual can not cherry pick what he or she likes from the legal system underpinning society, as otherwise society would unravel. A touching text.
Faidon - 1.5 stars
This was the most conceptual of the texts and quite hard to follow.
The most important things like justice and beauty can’t physically be observed but require the mind. Hence to be freed of the body and it’s distractions will enable a true philospher to better understand the world. From this argument we also get a discussion on how we humans can imagine/extrapolate something abstract and perfect which does not have itself a root in the physical reality. This is used as a proof of a world of ideas, perfect and unchangeable, that precedes anything that happens in our physical reality.
Interestingly enough this is coupled to a concept of reincarnation, where horny people their souls are for instance reincarnated in donkeys while greedy people their souls will become wolves or hawks. Only those souls detached from their bodies physicality can enter Hades pure and are not “sown” into new bodies, a concept very close to Buddhism.
Also Socrates kind of alludes to the bell curve, were the number of extremely wicked or extremely righteous people are concerned. In a spectrum Socrates argues, the extremes are always small and by far the most people will be in between both populations in terms of behaviour.
The whole substracting and adding part, and the reasoning on how a soul is thus immortal because three can never be an even number, was vague to me (even though Plato lets the bystanders say that anyone who hears this and has a bit of sense will surely agree with the arguments made).
The story of Socrates life ends here, very touching how he bathes before drinking the poison, to avoid someone having to bathe his body before his funeral. Less easy is that he does seem to care little about the fate of his children, but a martyr for a just cause is still the message this text managed to convey on me.
This book contained the texts Plato wrote in respect to Socrates, his life and death. The line between the author his views and that of his subject, being his mentor, is hard to make. The texts handle classical and thus universal subjects like the nature of love, morality and the value of laws. To note however is that Socrates his story, being a martyr to philosophy, has some interesting similiarities to the Christ story.
The texts vary in how captivating and accessible they are but overall 3.5 stars.
Symposion - 4.5 stars
Symposium, being a party were people are challenged to praise Love (imagine how you could spice up your dinnerparty conversation if the Greeks did this 2.500 years ago) was definitely the text I liked best in this book.
It has a quite complicated start (“I heard of someone, while walking, that he was at a party with Sokrates, oh tell me more”) but picks up quickly after.
The ancient contradiction between traders and philosophers, material and spiritual progress is already very much present and also very interesting to see these ancient Greeks quoting Homer and recognizing Patroclus as lover of Achilles.
Already also present in the text is the concept of love as an all defeating force, superceding oaths, elevating people from cowards to heroes and earning recognition from the gods when people just follow their heart (but more so the active partner than off course the woman or the passive partner) comes back.
The second story of Pausanias, places love between men above heterosexual relations, as long as the intentions are good and the senior partner falls for the character of the loved one, while the loved one wants to advance his personal development. It sounds rather modern if you forget the way women are treated.
Aristophanes his tale, of people being two halves, divided by the gods and looking for their other halves, very well known, was remarkably touching:
“But if Hephaestus were to come to them with his instruments and propose that they should be melted into one and remain one here and hereafter, they would acknowledge that this was the very expression of their want. For love is the desire of the whole, and the pursuit of the whole is called love.”
Eryximachos takes a more conceptual and broad stand and says that love is the harmony/balance between things, being the basis of music, astronomy, religion and all other relationships. Agathon then praises lyrically the power of love, claiming it is the source of all that it cherishes, from beauty, youth to relations between people.
Sokrates responds with a complex tale, told through a woman educating him, on how Eros is the son of Poverty and Succes, and how love always strives for something it has not yet achieved. This striving creates either physically the future (in the form of children forming new generations) or conceptually through laws, politics or art.
A fascinating definition of love by him is:
“He desires, of course, the possession of the beautiful;—but what is given by that? For the beautiful let us substitute the good, and we have no difficulty in seeing the possession of the good to be happiness, and Love to be the desire of happiness, although the meaning of the word has been too often confined to one kind of love. And Love desires not only the good, but the everlasting possession of the good.”
Socrates meanwhile interrogates his predecessors definitions to get them to see the errors in their reasoning, in a way that reminded me to a detective.
After this we have a strange afterthought in the form of praise on Socrates his rigor as a person by Alcibiades. With as highest achievement how Socrates had not fallen for him, even when he slept naked in one bed with him, showing the mind triumphs the body.
All in all it’s interesting that this work survived through the Christian times, since a lot of the banter alludes very prominently to man having sexual relationships with man.
Euthypro - 2.5 stars
”Is the pious loved by the gods because it is pious? Or is it pious because it is loved by the gods?”
Socrates casually takes apart the circle reasoning of his contemporaries about what piety is (prophetically since he will be charged with heresy claims) when there is a pantheon of gods who often oppose each other. In the end his partner scurries away quickly, feeling deeply uncomfortable with what he thought to know but actually doensn’t.
Defense of Socrates - 3 stars
Again here Socrates is very clever in taking apart the arguments of his advisaries, most apparent when any of them need to explain to the judges what they exactly mean with their accusations.
Also he coins the wisdom that true knowledge is only found by keeping a questioning mind and that only people who realise how little they know are truly wise. His search for truth, regardless of the consequences, is still inspiring in our times of populism and saying what is easy instead of what’s true.
Where he does in my opinion start to lose sympathy is when he compares himself to a god send gift, tasked to challenge society (that is like a lazy horse), which he needs to irritate into action and progress. And that killing him the Athenian populace would upset the gods, since his task of questioning is one from the gods, is also a bit of blackmail.
In the end he loses the verdict and makes himself even more impopular when the vote for the sentencing comes. Here he first says he should be honored in a statehall including being fed by the state. It’s hardly a surprise that his later proposal of a fine is not accepted and he is sentenced to death.
He accepts his fate, the death by poison, and scolds the ones who voted for his death, warning them that they will be questioned by youngsters after his death. Also he states that death will not harm him, as it is either an eternal dreamless slumber or a chance to question all those who have lived before without fear of death and reprecussions.
Kriton - 3.5 stars
Socrates decides not to flee when his friend Kriton offers him the opportunity. The consience, as a judge of someones behavior instead of the popular opinion of the masses is more important to Socrates. Keeping a pureness of mind is more relevant than the survival of the body.
Socrates furthermore espouses on a very personal level the philosophy that an individual can not cherry pick what he or she likes from the legal system underpinning society, as otherwise society would unravel. A touching text.
Faidon - 1.5 stars
This was the most conceptual of the texts and quite hard to follow.
The most important things like justice and beauty can’t physically be observed but require the mind. Hence to be freed of the body and it’s distractions will enable a true philospher to better understand the world. From this argument we also get a discussion on how we humans can imagine/extrapolate something abstract and perfect which does not have itself a root in the physical reality. This is used as a proof of a world of ideas, perfect and unchangeable, that precedes anything that happens in our physical reality.
Interestingly enough this is coupled to a concept of reincarnation, where horny people their souls are for instance reincarnated in donkeys while greedy people their souls will become wolves or hawks. Only those souls detached from their bodies physicality can enter Hades pure and are not “sown” into new bodies, a concept very close to Buddhism.
Also Socrates kind of alludes to the bell curve, were the number of extremely wicked or extremely righteous people are concerned. In a spectrum Socrates argues, the extremes are always small and by far the most people will be in between both populations in terms of behaviour.
The whole substracting and adding part, and the reasoning on how a soul is thus immortal because three can never be an even number, was vague to me (even though Plato lets the bystanders say that anyone who hears this and has a bit of sense will surely agree with the arguments made).
The story of Socrates life ends here, very touching how he bathes before drinking the poison, to avoid someone having to bathe his body before his funeral. Less easy is that he does seem to care little about the fate of his children, but a martyr for a just cause is still the message this text managed to convey on me.
April 25, 2022
Zo ziek om stukken van het verhaal van zijn leven te lezen. Wel vaak echt lastig om te begrijpen wat er precies bedoeld wordt, maar dat is Sokrates.
January 9, 2024
what a mansplainer
January 5, 2024
5 sterren voor Plato, de vertaler kan ik niet beoordelen
August 7, 2025
wat een sofist, die socrates! je zou hem met plezier een beker aanreiken
Read
September 10, 2024Leuk ventje he die Socrates
Displaying 1 - 6 of 6 reviews