The Conversation: How Seeking and Speaking the Truth About Racism Can Radically Transform Individuals and Organizations

by Robert Livingston

An essential tool for individuals, organizations, and communities of all sizes to jump-start dialogue on racism and bias and to transform well-intentioned statements on diversity into concrete actions—from a leading Harvard social psychologist.

“Livingston has made the important and challenging task of addressing systemic racism within an organization approachable and achievable.”—Alex Timm, co-founder and CEO, Root Insurance Company

How can I become part of the solution? In the wake of the social unrest of 2020 and growing calls for racial justice, many business leaders and ordinary citizens are asking that very question. This book provides a compass for all those seeking to begin the work of anti-racism. In The Conversation, Robert Livingston addresses three simple but profound questions: What is racism? Why should everyone be more concerned about it? What can we do to eradicate it?

For some, the existence of systemic racism against Black people is hard to accept because it violates the notion that the world is fair and just. But the rigid racial hierarchy created by slavery did not collapse after it was abolished, nor did it end with the civil rights era. Whether it’s the composition of a company’s leadership team or the composition of one’s neighborhood, these racial divides and disparities continue to show up in every facet of society. For Livingston, the difference between a solvable problem and a solved problem is knowledge, investment, and determination. And the goal of making organizations more diverse, equitable, and inclusive is within our capability.

Livingston’s lifework is showing people how to turn difficult conversations about race into productive instances of real change. For decades he has translated science into practice for numerous organizations, including Airbnb, Deloitte, Microsoft, Under Armour, L’Oreal, and JPMorgan Chase. In The Conversation, Livingston distills this knowledge and experience into an eye-opening immersion in the science of racism and bias. Drawing on examples from pop culture and his own life experience, Livingston, with clarity and wit, explores the root causes of racism, the factors that explain why some people care about it and others do not, and the most promising paths toward profound and sustainable progress, all while inviting readers to challenge their assumptions.

Social change requires social exchange. Founded on principles of psychology, sociology, management, and behavioral economics, The Conversation is a road map for uprooting entrenched biases and sharing candid, fact-based perspectives on race that will lead to increased awareness, empathy, and action.

Genres: Nonfiction, Race, Business, Social Justice, Sociology, Psychology, Politics

345 pages, Kindle Edition

First published February 2, 2021

About the author

Dr. Robert Livingston is a social psychologist and one of the nation’s leading experts on the science underlying bias and racism. His research has appeared in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, and Harvard Business Review. For two decades, he has served as a diversity consultant to scores of Fortune 500 companies, public-sector agencies, and non-profit organizations. He has held professorships at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, Northwestern University’s Kellogg School of Management, and the University of Sussex. He currently serves on the faculty of the Harvard Kennedy School.

Reviews

[Keith · Rating 5 out of 5]

This is absolutely a must read! As someone who has been and continues to be a diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) advocate I voraciously consumed this outstanding text. Dr. Robert Livingston use of social psychology, research, coupled with real world examples, creates a comprehensive understanding of racism grounded in fundamentals.

In addition to making it abundantly clear why this is important, necessary, and achievable he provides a model for how to have conversations about race, racism, and anti-racism. He skillfully walks you through the text. It is a educational and awakening journey that starts with the current CONDITION, moving to CONCERN, and then to the CORRECTION. You'll need to read his book to know more.

I so appreciate this book which is and will continue to be a cornerstone of my inclusive leadership library. I already know I will be rereading this book several times. I was recently interviewed for a podcast for an upcoming keynote I'll be delivering next month in the UK about cross cultural conversations. I referenced and recommended The Conversation several times during interview.

This book had me speaking out loud. "Yes." "Really." "Damn." "Absolutely." "Seriously." And a few words I won't use here. My hard copy was consumed quickly and has been appropriately dog-eared, underlined, and notes written in the margins. My wife was a good sport who listened to my outbursts of confirmation or curiosity which happened so frequently she may not need to read the book...but she will.

My passion for, curiosity about, and love of people and their identities has led me to speak and write about DEI and inclusive leadership. I've long held the belief racism negatively impacts us all. We must start our anti-racism journey with acquiring knowledge and understanding of racism especially systemic racism, then using compassion, curiosity, and courage build on our awareness to act to eradicate racism....personally or internally then in our communities.

It is for those reasons, I have led a weekly cross cultural conversation at my institution for almost 4 yeas now. Dr. Livingston deftly explains why having authentic conversations about racism with others that are based on facts are essential in our efforts to build racial equity and eliminate racism. He includes so many nuggets of information using a head and heart approach that inspire. One quote from many, I liked was "social change requires social exchange." I concur and have seen evidence of this during our conversations.

I share his belief that racial equity is achievable. I could extol the benefits of this book forever. You should purchase it today. Read it. Take time to go on the journey. You will be moved. Of this I am certain!

Easily 5 stars!!!

[J Earl · Rating 5 out of 5]

The Conversation by Robert Livingston takes a lot of information, much of which you may have known, and puts it into a form that is more open-hearted as well as usable for having conversations about race and racism. I have a feeling his workshops sneak up on the members just as this book did on me.

In my case, the sneaking up was more about attitude than information. I can easily become too confrontational during these discussions and when I do it no longer matters how good the information I have is, I have done my part to construct a barrier to understanding. I admit that part of the issue for me is that I have lost faith in human beings, I no longer believe they are mostly good and will change course with the right help. Livingston approaches these people with far more compassion than I have usually been able to muster, which not only chips away at any barrier but often puts everyone on the same side, as it should be.

If you aren't familiar with the research or the many examples of racism, both individual and systemic, then this book will offer those pieces in ways that don't insist that you suddenly change your world, just that you begin to look at the world differently, at least with respect to race. If you are familiar with a lot of the research and stories from people's lives, this book will help you find ways to open the path to genuine discussion rather than the path to arguing. In particular, you will pick up on what issues warrant what research or real life examples to start the conversation or, perhaps more important, keep the conversation going.

I recommend this to anyone who cares at all about race in the United States. Whether you have no doubt about the presence of systemic racism or you have doubts that it even exists, this book will offer ways to think about it without being either preachy or condescending.

Reviewed from a copy made available by the publisher via NetGalley.

[Mekala - Wander Through Ink · Rating 5 out of 5]

I am not generally a reader of non-fiction, but I make a few exceptions each year, and I'm glad I made an exception for this one. This amazing book focused on systemic racism is written by social psychologist, Dr. Robert Livingston.

The book is divided into 3 main sections: Condition (Do I understand what the problem is and where it comes from?), Concern (Do I care enough about the problem and the people it harms?) and Correction (Do I know how to correct the problem and am I willing to do it?).

Founded on principles of psychology, sociology, management, and behavioural economics, the book provides relevant examples, with data and scientific studies to back it up. Given that the book was published in 2021, the examples include a lot of recent scenarios that a lot of us have lived through or heard of. The sections flow really well and despite including a lot of theory, the content is easy to follow and understand.

The book is called "The Conversation", and as such, each of the three sections has questions to consider at the end. It's an activity you can work through alone, however I found it even better the second time when I had a group to discuss it with at work.

I highly recommend this to everyone.

[Melly Mel - Shelf_ishly_lit · Rating 5 out of 5]

BOOK REVIEW: THE CONVERSATION by Robert Livingston
Pub date Feb 2, 2021

The Conversation by Robert Livingston is a book that speaks to me as a professional in Social Work and the nonprofit sector. Livingston is a Harvard University professor and diversity expert who has spent his career as a social psychologist studying the science that underlies racism and bias. It taps into my desire to learn, grow and embark on an authentic journey of allyship and finding ways to ingrain these principles into my daily practice as a professional working with racialized and marginalized families and as a human being and global citizen.

In The Conversation Livingston shares his knowledge and experience working with non-profit and fortune 500 companies and how he has helped them move from preformative allyship towards truly immersive, inclusive, intersectional and diversity focused practices. This means moving beyond catchy statements on pretty pamphlets to real action steps in what Livingston refers to moving from Diversity 1.0 & 2.0 (where most are stuck) towards 3.0.

I am really excited to learn from Livingston and have been talking about it at every meeting, committee and opportunity I can. I encourage you to pick up The Conversation if you are looking to find ways to analyze your current practice and develop action steps in systemic, structural and meaningful ways.

[J.J. · Rating 3 out of 5]

3.5 I think this would have been better in print and is geared to those just starting out their antiracism journeys. There was a lot of duplicated information presented here I have read other places, and this books seems more like a starting point, not a mid-point. For those just beginning, I highly recommend it. And I think it addresses well the reluctant middle who feel DE&I training is unnecessary. And do yourself a favor and buy the print version for the charts and statistics that don't translate well to audio.

[Neil Purcell · Rating 5 out of 5]

It is rare that I read a book and realize early in the reading that the author is doing everything I had hoped for - organizing a sensible and practical approach to the topic, bringing to bear a ton of research. laying out the argument and the discussion in a logical and persuasive and efficient structure, leading me to insights and applications. "The Conversation" is such a book. Thank you, Dr. Robert Livingston.

Ask yourself what the major challenges are that face our American society, and most of them will have their roots wrapped around the legacy of racism in this country. Consider our failing public schools, mass incarceration, police brutality, income inequality, healthcare inequities, and voter suppression - all are at least partly due to that soul sickness of racism. Despite a long and bloody Civil War, within a few short years, systemic racism was once again a powerful force in America. It isn't going to be easy to end it. We tried in the 60's and some of us thought we solved the problem - some others figured racism was eradicated by the election of President Obama. Very few serious people think that now.

Dr Livingston has written a manual for making real change. If you're thinking that we need to be working hard to make that change happen, he has some very good ideas about how to get it done.

As a white man in his mid-60's, I am late to this project. I think I am probably not alone in having emerged from my youth with rosy expectations of the inevitability of progress and of the imminent disappearance of white supremacy and its subtler forms of racial bias and discrimination. Some of us didn't think we needed to do anything, except not be an asshole. We voted and made contributions and wrote stuff online - all in support of values such as fairness and diversity, equity and inclusion. We knew things weren't right, but we thought progress was happening and the future was bright.

I understand now that the rise of egalitarian thinking in the 60's forced anti-black feelings into hiding - they were not eliminated, but continued to smolder in the shadows. One has to deny he is a racist now, even as he embraces the most virulent form of racism. "I'm the least racist person you know" insists a racist president. The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court insists that the history of suppression of Black voting rights in states like Georgia and Alabama and Texas is a thing of the distant past, as he wrecks the legal protections of those voters. Racism didn't go away, but some of us have an interest in pretending otherwise. The rest of us need to stand up and do something about it, or know that we are complicit in something evil, unjust, unChristian, and unAmerican.

I have a stack of books on this subject. I'm reading up on how to be an anti-racist. I'm volunteering with a local church group to try to get an anti-racism initiative started in the parish. We'll see where it goes. I am grateful to Dr Livingston for this very helpful tool for changing the world, one step at a time. It is our Christian duty, and the duty of every patriot who dreams of a good future for his country.

[Thomas DeWolf · Rating 5 out of 5]

Such a powerful and important book, and well-aligned with the national racial healing/racial justice group: Coming to the Table
Early on, Livingston highlights one of the key pillars of the CTTT Approach to racial healing: the importance of Connections: "Our most impactful and consequential learning occurs through our relationships with other people. We are much more likely to talk to, listen to, influence, and be influenced by those who are part of our familial, social, or professional networks. Making progress toward racial equity requires the concerted effort of an entire community. A productive conversation also requires a baseline of real knowledge and factual information."

A few more key quotes:

"Ultimately, people are the regulators and agents of social transformation, which means if enough people want change, then it will happen. But social change requires social exchange. In other words, we have to start talking to one another - especially those outside our social circle. Nothing will improve until we begin to have honest and informed conversations about race and decide, as a community, to do something about it. The problem is that many people feel uncomfortable or ill-equipped to talk about race - or they fear that talking about it will only make things worse. Or they dive in too quickly, without a clear structure or objective, and beat a hasty retreat once the dialogue becomes difficult."

"A recurring theme throughout my book has been the difference between factual and emotional truth."

"It's important to recognize and accept that it will be hard for all. It will be difficult for White readers, for example, because the experience will create defensiveness and challenge assumptions about the world as they are seeking the truth about racism. It will be challenging for people of color due to the vulnerability that they assume when speaking the truth about racism, in addition to sheer fatigue and frustration from having discussions about the same problems over and over."

I highly recommend this book for everyone who is committed to truth-telling, racial justice and racial healing, as well as anyone who is interested in learning more about what we can do together to address these centuries-old traumatic wounds. I also encourage readers to become a member of Coming to the Table

[Scott · Rating 5 out of 5]

Helpful ideas to improve attitudes and understandings about personal biases and systemic racism. Empirical evidence to support alternate solutions instead of feel good platitudes. The author does a good job providing common ground and welcoming the timid and the skeptical over to have a conversation. It makes a lot of sense to me that these person to person interactions are our best chance at changing the motivations of others.

Mr. Livingston lays out accepted definitions of commonly used terms so everyone can be on the same page during a discussion:
What someone believes about a specific group is a stereotype
What someone feels abut a specific group is prejudice.
How someone behaves toward a specific group is discrimination.
Racism doesn't have to involve hatred toward the other. It could be due to excessive positivity or preference to your group, relative, or other group.

To live an ethical life is to be held accountable to history. By entering into conversation about our history and seeking accountability, white people can begin doing the necessary work of ending racism.

[Єгор Домачук · Rating 4 out of 5]

“First, I intentionally used the phrase “racism occurs” rather than “racism is” to highlight the idea that racism is more about the consequences of people’s behaviors than it is about their particular traits. In other words, racism is more about what people do than who people are.”

Книга не настільки актуальна в Україні, як в західній Європі чи США, але вона на 100% передає сутність проблеми расизму. Автор більшість частини книги пояснює, чому це являється проблемою, які витоки у цього, і чому люди несвідомо можуть спричиняти расистські дії. Коли ти починаєш дивитися на це під більш свідомим кутом, то тобі легше вирішувати проблему для себе особисто, бо ти розумієш її суть

“What someone believes about a particular group (e.g., Blacks are athletic, Asians are nerdy, Whites are selfish) is called a stereotype. What someone feels about a particular group (e.g., I don’t like Blacks) is called prejudice. How someone behaves toward a particular group (e.g., I will not hire Hispanic candidates) is called discrimination.”

[Nuzhat · Rating 4 out of 5]

The book was assigned as part of a national book club through the National League of Nurses (NLN). Discussion within the forum of the NLN was lead and facilitated through content experts and conveniently the book had 12 chapters so we mostly tackled a chapter a month which made the pace of the reading really slow, but also allowed time for reflection and processing of the feelings that came up. I think this work continues to add to my knowledge of racism and its impact on society and provides concrete ways to counter it. That all being said, I feel tremendous sadness that because of the current administration at the federal level dismantling all of the hard work that encompasses equity and inclusion that this work is more needed now than ever before and it's harder to accomplish it. I wish they could be so enlightened to perspectives outside of their own echo chamber to see others' struggle as real instead of not even acknowledging their existence.

[Natalie · Rating 5 out of 5]

I really, really enjoyed this book. If you’re continuing your anti-racist journey, you need to add this book to your list.

If you’re well on your way with your anti-racist journey, you’ll know the content of these conversations is not new information. But, one thing I did really appreciate about this book was the science portion.

So many of these conversations were about how your brain is programmed based on your own appearance. And it’s not a bad thing because you can’t change the way you look, but it’s a callout to recognize that your brain does this. It is so insightful and offers a lot of examples along with analogies that are easily digestible. There are so many effective conversations and thought starters to help generate that change in yourself to create a better world.

I highly recommend this one. Thank you Currency for this gifted copy!

[David Petersen · Rating 4 out of 5]

I enjoyed this book. It definitely made me think and reconsider my feelings toward and understanding of race in America. It would be a great book for a book club with lots and lots of discussion. I don't know if I agree with everything the author said but it really gave me pause and food for thought. I will need to reread this in the future so that I can continue the conversation with myself.

[Hilary Marcus · Rating 4 out of 5]

A very detailed work, based heavily in social science, as to why it is so important to engage in dialogue about race and racism. The most poignant chapter to me came at page 214, with practical concepts for white people to be aware of. For example, the value of intergroup interaction and relationships. The background is important and well researched even if a bit tedious (took me a LONG time to read). And while some of the ideas for counteracting Implicit Bias do seem a bit simplified, others seem compelling and actionable. Each reader would take away different lessons I believe. Read it!

[April · Rating 5 out of 5]

Truly excellent; particularly when paired with group discussions. Dr. Livingston lays out easy and concrete examples not only of the history of racism underpinning our interactions in the world today but also provides steps for unpicking those unconscious biases and working to create change at a individual and at organizational levels.

[Veronica Paige · Rating 4 out of 5]

An incredibly powerful book with real life examples, tons of data and science, and an honest look into how impactful racism is in society and history

[Kafito · Rating 5 out of 5]

What a shame that this book has not been more widely publicised. Granted it does not offer any 'new' ideas on how to conceive racism, its impacts and how it can be combated. However, this is an easy to read text explaining the relevant ideas and exploring (in a practical way) what can be done at both an individual and an organisational level. If I could afford it I would happily buy 50 copies and distribute them out to many of my family, friends and work colleagues just to get them thinking. It is not radical or polemical and tries very much to stick to the facts; it includes plenty of citations of the most relevant research. Highly recommended reading for anyone who is getting interested in racial biases and how we can begin to combat them.

[Chris · Rating 1 out of 5]

I read this book at the recommendation of my diversity counsel. We were told that once we read the book, we would be able to discuss it with the author. After I read the book, I chose not to participate in the the discussion with the author; as I did not feel it would achieve anything. The reasons below are my honest criticisms of the book.

1. The author states that antidotal examples will not be used, and only empirical data and studies will be used to support or disprove arguments. this only applied to the arguments that were oppose to their point of view. Antidotal examples were used to support arguments the author agreed with.

2. The author stated they would not be using personal attacks in the book, then targeted a specific group on multiple occasions.

3. Studies do not indicate that something will happen, only that it can and how or when. It is irresponsible to assume an outcome because a study found it was a possible outcome.

4. An entire chapter was dedicated to educate that certain races are not genetically inferior to another. I have never met anyone in my entire life that thought that.

The book ended abruptly without any real gain of knowledge or moment of clarity. It provided a few examples of diversity being successfully integrated and executed. If someone has not studied any psychology, history, sociology or science; this book is a good read for them. As stated above, if someone believes that certain races are genetically inferior to another then they may want to read this book.

[Joel Schaefer · Rating 5 out of 5]

This was an exceptional book. I reserve the 5 star ratings for books that either move me emotionally or help me think in a new way. This book was both. It helped to shine a light on a blind spot that I had in numerous areas. I especially appreciated that if I am not doing something to reduce racism, then I am complicit in it - as in a moving river. I also like that I should consider the ways in which I am common, as opposed to the ways that I am different. I think the concept of starting on third base as a white male is accurate. I will look forward to discussing the contents of this book with my black friends and colleagues and to improve my knowledge on this important issue.

[Destiny · Rating 2 out of 5]

This book is for someone brand new to the conversation and space of racial equity and inclusion. I am much more interested in the action and practice which was the smallest section of the book at only 2 chapters.

[Greg Talbot · Rating 5 out of 5]

Before I read "The Conversation", I enjoyed listening to Dr. Livingston discuss his own experience with racism and academic research with Dax Shepard (https://armchairexpertpod.com/pods/ro...). The podcast was a good and thought-provoking piece to how these conversations occur, despite the difficulty of the topic.

One of the aspects I most appreciated for this book was that Livingston really does approach it as a conversation with a reader. We engage it from the base question - is there a problem with racism? The Pew Research Livingston cites (2019) shows that 52% of white Americans think the problem is racism identified where it does not exist, and 84% of black Americans not seeing racism where it does.

Livingston further explores the difference between prejudice and institutional racism. And through various studies makes the argument (persuasively in my estimate) that we do live in very different racialized Americas. Terms like "white supremacy", "anti-blackness", and "implict bias" can be understood. And through the lens of research, we begin to see the triggering language and cues that shutdown conversations. Given that an estimated 93% of white Americans have some implicit bias based off associative tests, there is good moral work to be done for many of us. Understanding tribal in-group/out-group tendencies is a human trait, and Livingston provides ways for us to challenge our default tribal tendencies.

I do have some qualms...and it's more about what isn't addressed. I am curious why Livingston does not identify the problematic aspects of "essentialism". Our identification to groups as "white" or "black" may be as of the problem, especially with the growing biracial group of Americans. Here is an article exploring some ideas Sam Harris has presented about the issues with identity politics: https://quillette.com/2018/05/28/sam-...

Also, if the goal is a post-racial world, dignity toward all Americans (white, black, latino, asian) should be extended, and I wonder if Livingston might have research toward teaching empowerment skills across color lines. Prejudice is not a white on black exclusive phenomenon. And given that social media can extend speech, but limit understanding, skillsets that rebuff harassment, bullying, racism and harm may be a critical.

Overall a wonderful read.

[Jacob · Rating 5 out of 5]

My favorite work on race and anti-racism that I've read so far - and I haven't nearly read/seen/listened to enough. Heard Livingston on Dax Shepard's podcast and had to buy it. But among the podcasts, films and documentaries, this stands out to me in two main ways:

1) The emphasis on having CONVERSATIONS based on FACTS and

2) Mountains and mountains of research on which to base your conversations.

While there is plenty of heart (and a surprising amount of humor), as well as clear writing with excellent metaphors, I appreciated that this book stayed focused on facts and research rather than just emotional appeals. Compared to White Fragility, I feel like this book would be better entry point for anti-racism, especially for those who doubt that systemic racism exists. The Conversation sways you to its point of view without ever telling you what to think - instead it asks you WHY you may believe any perspective. I particularly enjoyed the discussion questions as they forced me to reckon with the material. I would read this book with a group in a heartbeat.

Finally, in addition to the specific anti-racism content, the framework Livingston uses to address it - the PRESS model - is applicable to any large scale issue. Definitely stealing that for leadership training!

I highly recommend this book. Incredibly informative - and dare I say transformative - without being dry.

Here's to heading upstream.

[Bookworm · Rating 2 out of 5]

I forgot how I came across this book but the cover and title intrigued me. There are conversations (:P) about having conversations about racism and what that looks like. How do you get people to listen? How do you get people to come down from their perch and be genuinely open to new ideas? What does that look like for different situations: at the individual level to organizations?

I'll be honest: the book was incredibly dull. I am not sure why it did not click with me other than it was not what I thought it would be. It's too dry and academic for my tastes and I do agree that it does seem to be more of a 101 level type of book (which is odd because I suppose I was also under the impression this would be about taking this conversation much further and deeper).

I do agree that this is a book that might be useful as a starting place and/or as a supplement to trainings an organization might have, but I'm not sure how useful it would be for someone who is looking to engage on a deeper and tougher level with themselves, others etc. It is, however, not for everyone and so do emphasize that it might be more useful as a supplement to those who are reluctant to engage in these conversations and may need a more relateable text BUT also need more information in addition to whatever they already have at hand.

Library borrow was best for me.

[Ddoddmccue · Rating 5 out of 5]

Many well meaning programs- and authors- do an excellent job of raising awareness of racial discrimination. Fewer provide relevant suggestions for moving beyond awareness to action. Livingston fills this void, with informed conversation only the first step,

Disclaimer: As an academic familiar with many of the classic research he cited, I applaud the relevance and application of the cited models/theories/works incorporated into The Conversation. (He got me early on by mentioning Herzberg (motivation) from my grad school days.)

While I cannot fairly predict the response of other readers to this wealth of academic research,the clear writing style, use of varied examples and exercises, and summarization and reinforcement promote reader- friendliness for a wider audience.
Also noteworthy is the incorporation of recent events that significantly caught public attention on societal disparities and injustice.

Livingston hands readers a rich tool kit of possibilities as well as basic diagnostics needed to generate an individual or organizational response unique to specific qualities. For those acknowledging their privilege but unclear on what to do to remedy its ills, this book offers some answers.

[Don · Rating 2 out of 5]

The book is written as a business studies primer for organisations that want to promote ‘diversity’ within their ranks. Livingston works hard to establish his credentials for speaking to this audience, mentioning on several, indeed many, occasions that he is the sort of Harvard professor who is on regular hobnobbing terms with the CEOs of Fortune 500 companies, the mayors of US cities, heads of police departments, etc, etc.

He is also a man with a method, falling someway short of the full 12 steps monty, but hanging a lot around the three concepts of ‘condition’, ‘concern’, and ‘correction’. In these circles you can never get enough of alliteration it seems.

‘Condition’ is all about getting a conversation underway about racism and how much of a problem it really is. Livingston tells us that a lot of his courses involve working joes who are there on the instruction of a higher bureaucrat and enter into the affair with pretty dismissal spirits as to what they’ll get out of it. Resistance to the idea America is racist stacks up behind the visibility of black millionaires with stellar careers in entertainment and sport. ‘Black people can’t get ahead in this country? Really? Oprah Winfrey? Michael Jordan?’

He tells us that these are objections that have to be taken seriously and countered with facts that are slipped scrumptiously into games and exercised. Then the science comes in, which is overwhelmingly social psychology in its commitment to unpicking things like ‘anchoring bias’, ‘legitimising myths’, ‘illusory corelation’ and more. What this adds up to is the fact that White perceptions of Black people as not making sufficient effort to grab the opportunities available under the terms of the ‘American dream’ has an underpinning rationality which, though horribly flawed, needs to be taken apart piece by piece and examined in order to get to a point where different understandings of what is going on might be possible.

Onto ‘concern’: how much do we care anyway? Are the problems of living in a racist society really so great that we have to undergo all the upsets of radical change to get to a better place? Isn’t it enough for corporations to advertise themselves as pro-diverse and go through tick-box exercises which show they are making an effort? Livingston makes the case for caring a lot, pointing out that condoning racism has a high moral cost as well the practical effort of its damage to both its victims and its perpetrators. There is little in this section that won’t be familiar to anyone who has had responsibility for pushing, or attempting to push, racism out of an organisation they are involved in.
The finally ‘correction’: what everyone can do to promote racial equality. Well, you begin by adopting a ‘positive mindset’. Then you go on to acknowledge the ‘intergroup contact’ – ie talking and hanging out with people outside your own ethnic group. ‘Disrupting social categorisation’ is also good, which might mean as little, in the British context, as seeing Black or White neighbours in the capital city in the new category of being ‘Londoners’.

The schema goes on and seems to hold out the hope that we will get to a better place by pulling ourselves up by our bootstraps, changing us but also leaving the world in which we live distinctly unchanged to any noticeable degree. This is where we have to say that having ‘Conversations’ is simply not enough.

Livingston is canny enough to point to the ‘distal impact’ of racism: we got to this place because of what happened in the past. Obviously, the legacy of the enslavement of African people looms large in this story but the context of how this took place in the development of a capitalist mode of society gets very little regard. Racism got a firm grip on the Western world at this time because the development of the forces of production required the radical subordination of labour to the interests of the owners of capital. But this imperative didn’t change with the abolition of the slave trade or the conclusion of the American Civil War. Industrial capitalism became dominant in the US in the second half of the 19th century and it favoured competitive labour markets which forced workers to compete with one another for decent jobs as the best means to drive down the cost of labour power.

This was a system that was well capable to conceding formal equality to Blacks in the form of acknowledgment of their citizenship, which at the same time disempowering them in terms of their competitive place in the labour market. Under the plantation system, somewhat ironically, Whites and Blacks lived in cheek by jowl proximity with one another for centuries with racial disadvantage being enforced primarily by the crack of the overseer’s whip. In the industrial cities where Black workers congregated after Emancipation a much more varied range of mechanisms came into play to make segregation the governing rule in American society. Entire cities were shaped around the imperative of keeping the races apart, with the politics for achieving this end being entrenched in government as the federal, state and city levels.

Livingston’s social psychology allows this to be represented as ‘aversive racism’, representing the fact that, although American society had moved in a more liberal direction (he refers to the post-Civil Rights period but the trend was established much earlier) but still Blacks invoked negative connotations among Whites which meant that racism subtly adapted but did not disappear. But understanding it as a function of capitalism development rather than human psychology permits a deeper and more profound understanding of the nature of the problem. It is not just Conversations that we need to promote with one another, but also an understanding of the capitalist nature of our world, which works to divide working people among themselves in order that the interests of the boss class remains dominant, which we need to be reaching for. Until then we are wading in the minor currents of shallow streams, whilst the oceanic forces of a historical epoch continue to determine the outcomes of struggle for social progress.

[Ross T · Rating 5 out of 5]

Our Racial Failures

I learned a lot from this book by Robert Livingston. We may not have been around when there was slavery and may have even grown up in less diverse communities. Inevitably we all need to come to grips who we are, how we think and how we participate in our schools, workplace and community. We are what we learn throughout life and react to the community and peer pressures that surround us. The truth is sometimes hard to swallow and it takes courage sometimes to realize we are ourselves part of the problem of racism. Robert shows us how we can become more diverse in our thinking and the steps we can take to treat everyone fairly and with due respect. Looking at what has been happening with the Rise of Trump and White racism, as well as voter suppression laws as well as the daily lies we here from social media and news commentary channels we should be concerned. The object here is to all be treated equally and to tell the truth or at least check out what you read and here. We can all do a much better job of racial acceptance and diversity. The book The Conversation is a must read for everyone.

[Cindy Noe · Rating 5 out of 5]

This is the single most helpful and comprehensive book to learn about and implement antiracist practices, in particular in the workforce, which I have had difficulty finding as I have sought out resources for my team. I'm very grateful to Livingston for sharing his personal experiences and also grounding his persuasive arguments in data. Also, his model requiring education and concern before action is particularly compelling, because so often when I have been working with my direct reports who are white people to call out their missteps and work on antiracism, they jump too quickly to "but what do I do?" without having a true common understanding of the issues and context, which are critical to approaching change in themselves and others. This book has been a guidepost in my learning journey and I'm so appreciative to Livingston and his supporters for distilling and sharing his practices and learnings in this format.

[Nina Keller · Rating 5 out of 5]

This book is very readable and helpful. It follows an appealing structure PRESS (Problem awareness, Root cause analysis, Empathy, Strategy, Sacrifice) that flows from three Cs: understanding the Condition of racism, evaluation Concern and care for the problem of racism, and learning strategies for Correcting the problem at institutional and personal levels. Each of the sections concludes with a summary and reflection questions rooted in thoughts and feelings about the content. Dr. Livingston applies the research that humans need a combination of both facts and feelings to be presented and grappled with in order to support constructive conversation. I would argue this is essential reading for all organizational leaders and for those committed to the work of eradicating systemic inequality and injustice.

[Calvin Caulee · Rating 5 out of 5]

The Conversation is THE BOOK for racism. Robert Livingston's well thought assessment of racism is bang on. The fact that racism is something temporary and can be changed gives us hope. His tools to fight racism is not aggressive or confrontational but rather small changes that would promote diversity. You have to understand The White People POV before you attempt to propose a new thought process and emotional component. The best thing is that every theory and tool are backed by solid research. While our intentions are good, we need to back it up by having the right convictions and act the right way. There will always be a few instances of individual racism but if systemic racism is eradicated.; that every person is given the same rights and opportunities. This will be the real change.

[Edwyna · Rating 5 out of 5]

Access the Science of Racism

Livingston’s tome is several books in one, because he has mined the extensive research of so many scholars for his reader’s benefit. We have a more fulsome understanding of how we can progress through a current impasse, but we also gain insight on how differences in understanding have arisen in the first place. Take the time to read it thoroughly and the book becomes a roadmap for learning. It provides evidence for why we might have arrived at current attitudes, and why someone else brings a different truth to the table. It is brilliant for many applications, for work, academic, and interpersonal settings, and provides fodder for enlightened conversations and progress. Cheers!

[Rick · Rating 5 out of 5]

A no brainer, slam dunk if you are looking for a thoughtful, reasoned, research supported dialogue regarding the topic of racism than look no further and do yourself a favor and give it a read. As an educator, a consultant and a black man he uses references to existing research across a few disciplines as well as sprinkle in a few anecdotal experiences to bring points home to help build the case that he defines as systemic racism is alive and well in America today. However he also paints a road map on where to go to improve the situation, certainly won't happen in my lifetime but this is all about fighting the good fight for generations to come. Do yourself a favor if you have an interest in this topic this is a must read in my opinion.