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We Do This 'til We Free Us: Abolitionist Organizing and Transforming Justice
"Organizing is both science and art. It is thinking through a vision, a strategy, and then figuring out who your targets are, always being concerned about power, always being concerned about how you're going to actually build power in order to be able to push your issues, in order to be able to get the target to actually move in the way that you want to."
What if social transformation and liberation isn't about waiting for someone else to come along and save us? What if ordinary people have the power to collectively free ourselves? In this timely collection of essays and interviews, Mariame Kaba reflects on the deep work of abolition and transformative political struggle.
With chapters on seeking justice beyond the punishment system, transforming how we deal with harm and accountability, and finding hope in collective struggle for abolition, Kaba's work is deeply rooted in the relentless belief that we can fundamentally change the world. As Kaba writes, "Nothing that we do that is worthwhile is done alone."
What if social transformation and liberation isn't about waiting for someone else to come along and save us? What if ordinary people have the power to collectively free ourselves? In this timely collection of essays and interviews, Mariame Kaba reflects on the deep work of abolition and transformative political struggle.
With chapters on seeking justice beyond the punishment system, transforming how we deal with harm and accountability, and finding hope in collective struggle for abolition, Kaba's work is deeply rooted in the relentless belief that we can fundamentally change the world. As Kaba writes, "Nothing that we do that is worthwhile is done alone."
240 pages, Paperback
First published February 23, 2021
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March 3, 2021
"Abolition is not about your fucking feelings"
I want to preface this gushing review with the fact that Mariame sent 30 copies of this book to RVA bail fund so some of our folks locked up could have copies inside! She's the real deal and has been for some time.
CWs for this book: Childhood sexual violence, anti-blackness, lynching, police brutality/murder, slavery, genocide, rape, sexual assault, etc. The content is heavy, no question.
I have a short list of books I think of as the "abolitionists must reads," and this one has shot right to the top. Mariame has profoundly answered many questions practicing abolitionists are afraid or unwilling to, a skill and commitment she has held for decades. She acknowledges many of the doubtful moments abolitionist organizers are afraid to admit we hold, from killer cops to childhood sexual abuse. I was struck by the fact that this book was written by an organizer and feels as though it was written for fellow organizers. It accomplishes that tricky task of being a movement work written for/by movement folks, while being something that someone new to carceral abolition could read, understand and be inspired by.
This work is highly accessible, with most chapters being 3-7 pages. Because so many of these works have appeared in the press, it's easy to read a piece, google it, and send the link off to whomever you think needs to read it. Because of this access, I immediately ordered a copy and sent it to my dad, hoping it would help him turn a corner with the same conversations we've had many times over. Mariame rewrites those conversations, and reframes the punitive approach, without shame and guilt.
This book was also lovely because I learned a lot about Mariame's upbringing from organizer parents. She has been a fairly private person, and explains her motivations and what inspired her to open up a bit more, become more visible, etc.
The essays I was most moved by were in the "The State Can't Give Us Transformative Justice," specifically "The Sentencing of Larry Nassar Was Not "Transformative Justice," (58) and "We Want More Justice for Breonna Taylor than the System That Killed Her Can Deliver" (63).
I'll leave it with this-
"My friend scholar and activist Erica Meiners says that liberation under oppression is unthinkable by design. So an abolition politic insists that we imagine and organize beyond the constraints of the normal" (92).
I want to preface this gushing review with the fact that Mariame sent 30 copies of this book to RVA bail fund so some of our folks locked up could have copies inside! She's the real deal and has been for some time.
CWs for this book: Childhood sexual violence, anti-blackness, lynching, police brutality/murder, slavery, genocide, rape, sexual assault, etc. The content is heavy, no question.
I have a short list of books I think of as the "abolitionists must reads," and this one has shot right to the top. Mariame has profoundly answered many questions practicing abolitionists are afraid or unwilling to, a skill and commitment she has held for decades. She acknowledges many of the doubtful moments abolitionist organizers are afraid to admit we hold, from killer cops to childhood sexual abuse. I was struck by the fact that this book was written by an organizer and feels as though it was written for fellow organizers. It accomplishes that tricky task of being a movement work written for/by movement folks, while being something that someone new to carceral abolition could read, understand and be inspired by.
This work is highly accessible, with most chapters being 3-7 pages. Because so many of these works have appeared in the press, it's easy to read a piece, google it, and send the link off to whomever you think needs to read it. Because of this access, I immediately ordered a copy and sent it to my dad, hoping it would help him turn a corner with the same conversations we've had many times over. Mariame rewrites those conversations, and reframes the punitive approach, without shame and guilt.
This book was also lovely because I learned a lot about Mariame's upbringing from organizer parents. She has been a fairly private person, and explains her motivations and what inspired her to open up a bit more, become more visible, etc.
The essays I was most moved by were in the "The State Can't Give Us Transformative Justice," specifically "The Sentencing of Larry Nassar Was Not "Transformative Justice," (58) and "We Want More Justice for Breonna Taylor than the System That Killed Her Can Deliver" (63).
I'll leave it with this-
"My friend scholar and activist Erica Meiners says that liberation under oppression is unthinkable by design. So an abolition politic insists that we imagine and organize beyond the constraints of the normal" (92).
July 8, 2021
Great book about the abolition of the prison industrial complex and organizing overall. Lots of nuanced thoughts about doing away with policing and surveillance and creating a more community-centered approach to justice. I feel like this book raises several compelling questions about how we get to the point of transformative and restorative justice. On a personal note, as someone who has observed narcissism/gaslighting/abusive behavior in leftist spaces as well as in liberal academic arenas, this book helped me probe further into what it would take for harm-doers to truly take accountability for their actions. How do we implement preventive efforts to curb this type of interpersonal damage in the first place, instead of having to resort to punitive measures? Would recommend to those who want to challenge the status quo surrounding carceral logic and punishment-oriented approaches to justice.
March 19, 2021
I remembered most of these essays from when they were first published, almost all as effective interventions to respond to dominant paradigms and narratives at the time (e.g. about Marissa Alexander, Cyntoia Brown, Larry Nassar, Breonna Taylor). I appreciate Mariame’s clarity and grace that invites people into abolitionist politics. The points she makes and questions she raises around transformative justice and community accountability continue to be grounding for me, though I’m at a point where I crave a lot more specificity about practical applications, challenges faced, lessons learned, and gaps that exist. What felt grounding was that Mariame emphasizes that no existing group is or strives to be “the model” but rather that different folks are doing what works well for their communities. In one conversation that was transcribed for this book, she says, “Part of the problem with policing, prisons, and surveillance is that it’s a one-size-fits-all model. Angela Davis says this perfectly—there is no one alternative. There are a million alternatives. And the issue is to figure out which alternative works for what situation... what works for this particular situation we’re in? What works for these people? How are we going to actually address that based on human needs?” I recommend this book for folks learning to embrace abolition and starting to rethink the ways the punishment mindset shows up in our everyday lives.
March 26, 2021
I want to start this review by saying that this is an incredibly powerful and politically useful book. Kaba's work is invaluable and she is setting the ground for a better world and that is certainly undeniable. Her pieces about her own organizing work, highlighting the criminalization of survivors and giving instructions on how to organize around PIC abolition are incredibly insightful and will certainly be instructive for abolitionists like me who are trying to get a better grasp at how to help reach the abolition of the police and prisons.
I have a background in gendered violence which definitely informs what I am about to say about a couple of the essays I didn't like. I think there's a lot of liberal flattening of power dynamics in the analysis of interpersonal violence when Kaba discusses the Larry Nassar case, and it honestly sometimes reaches the point of it being slightly too dogmatic. I agree and often argue the same things that Kaba does with regard to gendered violence-incarcerating one abuser doesn't fix the problem, the current system doesn't allow us to treat the roots of the problem, all that stuff-but I am against advocating for the freedom of abusers in the current system that already widely condones violence against girls and women. I understand that Kaba's position is political and I have an understanding of the argument-but I struggle to square this with the reality that Nassar was a prolific abuser and there is literally nothing in place to stop him if he were to be freed. There are ways to bring together the fight for recognition of sexual harm (which wasn't recognized and still widely isn't) and the idea of abolition but I am uncertain that advocating for individual abusers is the way to go here. I say this as someone who thinks abolishing prisons and finding ways to deal with sexual harm is urgent-but I am still reckoning with the widely accepted idea that abusers still receive more empathy than victims. Abolition has to come with an erosion of class status and to /simply/ advocate for the freedom of individual abusers /in the current class system/ is, to me, incomplete and putting dogma above survivors.
I think a lot of Kaba's responses to sexual crimes are responses to bad faith arguments about sexual violence that are thrown at many abolitionists and I totally recognize this. However I think it's dangerous to let those reactions set the terms for the conversations we are having about how abuse happens. For example, I really need to challenge the mantra of "hurt people hurt people" (again used in the Nassar piece) because this isn't the only reason, in our current society structured by power, that people hurt each other. I find this too simplistic an explanation that lacks a reckoning with how abuse can be pleasurable for those doing it (especially for those in power!)-hurt may well be a PART of the problem but it certainly isn't all of it and it just feels like a sanitation of the issues which are incredibly complex and difficult.
As I said, it was only a few part of this book that I had some problems with. I really liked most of it, but I needed to write my thoughts down somewhere. I recommend it to people coming into abolition and looking to grapple with some of the issues around it.
I have a background in gendered violence which definitely informs what I am about to say about a couple of the essays I didn't like. I think there's a lot of liberal flattening of power dynamics in the analysis of interpersonal violence when Kaba discusses the Larry Nassar case, and it honestly sometimes reaches the point of it being slightly too dogmatic. I agree and often argue the same things that Kaba does with regard to gendered violence-incarcerating one abuser doesn't fix the problem, the current system doesn't allow us to treat the roots of the problem, all that stuff-but I am against advocating for the freedom of abusers in the current system that already widely condones violence against girls and women. I understand that Kaba's position is political and I have an understanding of the argument-but I struggle to square this with the reality that Nassar was a prolific abuser and there is literally nothing in place to stop him if he were to be freed. There are ways to bring together the fight for recognition of sexual harm (which wasn't recognized and still widely isn't) and the idea of abolition but I am uncertain that advocating for individual abusers is the way to go here. I say this as someone who thinks abolishing prisons and finding ways to deal with sexual harm is urgent-but I am still reckoning with the widely accepted idea that abusers still receive more empathy than victims. Abolition has to come with an erosion of class status and to /simply/ advocate for the freedom of individual abusers /in the current class system/ is, to me, incomplete and putting dogma above survivors.
I think a lot of Kaba's responses to sexual crimes are responses to bad faith arguments about sexual violence that are thrown at many abolitionists and I totally recognize this. However I think it's dangerous to let those reactions set the terms for the conversations we are having about how abuse happens. For example, I really need to challenge the mantra of "hurt people hurt people" (again used in the Nassar piece) because this isn't the only reason, in our current society structured by power, that people hurt each other. I find this too simplistic an explanation that lacks a reckoning with how abuse can be pleasurable for those doing it (especially for those in power!)-hurt may well be a PART of the problem but it certainly isn't all of it and it just feels like a sanitation of the issues which are incredibly complex and difficult.
As I said, it was only a few part of this book that I had some problems with. I really liked most of it, but I needed to write my thoughts down somewhere. I recommend it to people coming into abolition and looking to grapple with some of the issues around it.
February 8, 2022
1. Mariame Kaba is brilliant and is sharing important, powerful ideas.
2. As an archival document, this succeeds - it is a collection of her writings so that they are all preserved, which is important.
3. As a text on abolition and transformative justice, it's a mixed bag. It's repetitive and basic, because the article format means she's having to re-explain basic concepts to new audiences over and over. She speaks complex topics clearly, so there's a lot of fodder for short-excerpting and quoting. It's clear that she's a very busy person and so sitting down to write a more specific, in-depth book is probably not in the cards. Still, the repetition and shallowness are disappointing, and the organizing system of the chapters doesn't really work.
4. There are no citations in the book. She cites statistics to support her claims but leaves no trail to back them up. I hunted down the original online postings of several essays to see if citations were provided in their original forms, but did not find any. In one particularly egregious example, she and her coauthor state a flatly incorrect statistic on foster children in prison populations that went on to be quoted in congressional testimonies and spread all over the internet, while agencies placing foster children in homes published bewildered requests for the misinformation to be taken down because it was negatively affecting their ability to find families to take in children. Whether she and her coauthor were the genesis of that error or merely repeated it, I do not know. However, I find that sort of sloppiness very frustrating, because a single footnote saying where the statistic came from would allow it to be supported or refuted, but without that paper trail it is just misinformation in a time where we really need to be better than that.
Generally, I got a lot out of the book but its shortcomings made it a disappointing read. That said, the ideas at its foundation are exciting and powerful, and I will keep an eye out for Mariame Kaba's works in the future.
2. As an archival document, this succeeds - it is a collection of her writings so that they are all preserved, which is important.
3. As a text on abolition and transformative justice, it's a mixed bag. It's repetitive and basic, because the article format means she's having to re-explain basic concepts to new audiences over and over. She speaks complex topics clearly, so there's a lot of fodder for short-excerpting and quoting. It's clear that she's a very busy person and so sitting down to write a more specific, in-depth book is probably not in the cards. Still, the repetition and shallowness are disappointing, and the organizing system of the chapters doesn't really work.
4. There are no citations in the book. She cites statistics to support her claims but leaves no trail to back them up. I hunted down the original online postings of several essays to see if citations were provided in their original forms, but did not find any. In one particularly egregious example, she and her coauthor state a flatly incorrect statistic on foster children in prison populations that went on to be quoted in congressional testimonies and spread all over the internet, while agencies placing foster children in homes published bewildered requests for the misinformation to be taken down because it was negatively affecting their ability to find families to take in children. Whether she and her coauthor were the genesis of that error or merely repeated it, I do not know. However, I find that sort of sloppiness very frustrating, because a single footnote saying where the statistic came from would allow it to be supported or refuted, but without that paper trail it is just misinformation in a time where we really need to be better than that.
Generally, I got a lot out of the book but its shortcomings made it a disappointing read. That said, the ideas at its foundation are exciting and powerful, and I will keep an eye out for Mariame Kaba's works in the future.
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August 23, 2025A collection of essays/interviews that offer thought-provoking and eloquently realized discourse on abolitionism. Maybe not the best format, putting all of these into one book in this sequence, but the individual chapters on their own are a very worthwhile read.
February 24, 2022
Phenomenal introduction and summation of Mariame Kaba’s work and the more contemporary history of prison industrial complex abolition movement
June 16, 2021
I wanted to love this but I just didn’t. I found it quite repetitive and more focused on the “why” abolition is necessary (info I already knew) instead of the “how” we do it. I think it could have been improved with case studies and specific, in-depth, concrete steps for what justice would look like in an abolitionist world. To me the proposals are vague and don’t actually seem like they can realistically be done (in the USA). I also really disliked the format of essays and interviews and typed remarks/speeches. Maybe this would be better as an audiobook? Or it could’ve been a cool video compilation series or something to watch or listen to instead of read. This book is probably better for folks who are just getting their feet wet with abolitionist ideas and don’t know much about the prison-industrial complex or systemic racism and need some convincing that reform is necessary.
March 21, 2021
Regardless of your familiarity with abolition, this book is so good!! Lots of super thought-provoking nuggets and really useful frameworks. Abolition really isn’t just about prisons and police it’s about allllll the intersecting systems that perpetuate violence and harm! We’ve gotta jailbreak our imaginations and envision and build a better fckin world! Loved to read about a lot of local Chicago organizing, too. And it was also so helpful to hear how much hope Kaba has for the world— hope is a discipline!!
September 30, 2022
The content is great. The structure isn’t. It’s very repetitive in a way that slows down understanding.
April 7, 2021
Just incredible. I don't know if this is the best place to start for people looking to get into PIC abolitionism (I would say as a true intro text, Angela Davis's Are Prisons Obsolete? for a truly basic starting place about why prisons are bad,) but this tackles so many different topics and is such a clear call about how to organize and what the values we need to stick to as prison abolitionists. The section about transformative justice in particular is incredible, as as the examples of experiments that people are engaging in as alternatives to carceral structures.
I really just want to thrust this book at every person I know and demand they read it, and I can only hope they get half as much out of it as I have. Will be a reread very soon, and many times after that.
I really just want to thrust this book at every person I know and demand they read it, and I can only hope they get half as much out of it as I have. Will be a reread very soon, and many times after that.
June 1, 2022
I wish that I could say that I loved this book, but honestly, it kind of sucks! For awhile, I had seen people on Twitter (Often fellow white people who consider themselves to be on the Left) recommend Mariame Kaba's work in the way that a very devout Christian might urge you to read the Bible. I knew from the extracts I had read that We Do This 'til We Free Us would not resolve the conflicts I feel about abolition and transformative justice (Specifically, its failure to deal adequately with people who do things to hurt other people or animals who are unrepentant in their actions). So, I didn't exactly seek the book out. But I ended up reading it over the course of an evening because my flatmate (Who was unfamiliar with Kaba) ordered the book on the recommendation of a well-meaning (Also white) friend.
Of course, I came to the book with my own biases: I'm a white British woman, and a feminist who views rape and domestic violence as manifestations of patriarchy. I'm also not new to prison abolitionism as an ideology. There's little here in the way of theorising that made me think, 'Oh, that's a way of thinking about X that I hadn't considered'. If you read this book with no prior knowledge of prison abolition, you would have a completely different experience. Unfortunately I don't have the ability to imagine being a 'blank slate' in that respect. I get the impression that Kaba (who has been organising against prisons for decades) lacks that ability, too: if I was totally new to prison abolition, I feel like this book would not be introductory enough in its tone.
As I make that critique, I acknowledge that this is a collection composed primarily of essays previously published by web media outlets. When Kaba wrote the essays featured here, she was writing for online, at least nominally left-wing audiences. Mariame Kaba didn't even *want* to write a book, really; rather, she was repeatedly asked to do so.
We Do This 'til We Free Us is valuable in the sense that it is a record of an influential thinker's work that might, otherwise, with time, be lost to link rot. But is it the pinnacle of nuanced, intellectually rigorous writing? Not at all. The essays would have benefited from editing to make them better suited to the book format. While the editor of a progressive blog probably doesn't want a list of citations, as a book (With the corresponding authority that people tend to assign books, deserved or otherwise), this work is being treated as a study resource. Not only is it an informal 'reading group' text, but I'm pretty sure some professors are assigning it on college course curricula. So, would it really kill Mariame to cite her sources? Lack of education can't be blamed here; Kaba attended a Manhattan high school where the yearly tuition is $40,500 (No, that's not a typo), followed by one of the most prestigious universities in the world.
Another Goodreads reviewer mentioned that Mariame uses a false stat about the % of prisoners who've been in foster care. That's not the only time Mariame misleads readers (whether intentionally or not) about the specifics of the facts she uses to bolster her arguments. For example, in the essay 'A Jailbreak of the Imagination' (Co authored with another writer, Kelly Hayes, which makes the lack of fact checking particularly troubling), Kaba uses the case of Tiffany Rusher (a prisoner with a history of trauma and serious mental illness who died by suicide in her cell) to make the case for prison abolition. Now, it shouldn't be hard for Kaba and Hayes to win me over here! Yes, I'm sceptical about an approach to abolition that insists that R. Kelly, Larry Nassar, and Harvey Weinstein shouldn't be in prison (Which is the approach that self-described feminist Kaba promotes throughout the book). However, the nature of female offending, in combination with women's life circumstances (Such as being far more likely than men to be a primary caregiver) means that the case for abolishing the female prison estate is much more compelling than Kaba's gender-neutral call to 'free them all'.
For reasons unknown to me, Kaba's choice of case study is a white woman who was in prison for child sex offenses (Tiffany Rusher's race is never mentioned, but this is what I inferred from photos of her online). White people who are imprisoned for such crimes are arguably the hardest demographic to base abolitionist arguments on. Child sexual abuse is incredibly common, but usually unreported. Rarely are people who perpetrate child sexual abuse put in prison. This is particularly the case for white Americans, who benefit from the criminal justice system's deeply rooted bias towards African Americans. Compare child molestation to a crime like theft. An abolitionist might argue that a person who is imprisoned for theft is likely to be poor and is committing crimes of survival. It's harder to make such a claim about child sexual abuse, a crime many would describe as indefensible.
Perhaps as a deliberate strategy to cultivate sympathy towards their case study, Kaba and Hayes omit morally significant information about Rusher's crimes. 'A Jailbreak of the Imagination' begins by describing Rusher as 'imprisoned on charges related to sex work'. Technically accurate; Rusher was charged with having sex with three minors in exchange for money. 'Minors?', you say. 'What, like 17 year olds?' Not quite. One was a 12 year old boy.
Do I sympathise with what Rusher went through in her short life? Yes. Her dependency on drugs led her to make some truly desperate decisions, and the grown men who knowingly purchased her sexual 'services' during her time as a prostitute are rapists for trying to buy the consent of such a vulnerable woman. Did they ever go to prison for exploiting Rusher? Probably not, which is an indictment of the criminal 'justice' system, for sure. In either case, the term 'sex work' (Implying a victimless transaction between consenting adults) is not very useful here.
A few pages into the essay, it's revealed that 'the crimes for which Tiffany Rusher was convicted involved sex with a minor'. Further, 'She was doing survival sex work when she was solicited to provide sexual services at a party. As it turned out, the young man a relative wanted to purchase sexual favors for was underage.' Perhaps the authors of the piece have access to court documents that us readers don't, but it would sure as hell be useful if they were cited! As I mentioned a couple of paragraphs ago, there were three minors, not one, **the youngest of whom was 12.** The essay makes no mention of specific ages, but Kaba and Hayes' wording ('young man') could reasonably be interpreted as meaning 'teenager who might plausibly be mistaken for an adult'.
I had to Google Rusher's name to find the details I laid out above. They were not hard to find, so why is the narrative presented by Kaba and Hayes so different? If Kaba and Hayes truly believe that *no one* deserves to be in prison, not even Harvey Weinstein, why play word games to disguise what Tiffany Rusher was accused of doing? Fishy. I don't stress my point here because I think that Rusher *deserved* to be effectively tortured to death in solitary confinement. I emphasise it because it's an example of Kaba being seriously misleading that really makes me question her integrity and trustworthiness.
Elsewhere, a lot of the book's worst moments involve Kaba discussing how society should deal with perpetrators of sexual violence. Simply put, her analysis of sexual violence is bad, because it is faith-based, not fact-based. The idea that rapists are all nice people, deep down, is a comforting one. 'Hurt people hurt people'; they abuse others because they themselves have been abused. This is not a feminist analysis of sexual violence. It's patriarchal pop psych nonsense with a quasi-religious flavour. If it were really true that rapists rape because they have experienced similar violence, why are the majority male? Why are their victims usually women and trans people? In 'The Sentencing of Larry Nassar Was Not "Transformative Justice". Here's Why' (another piece with Kelly Hayes), Kaba writes, 'Understanding that harm originates from situations dominated by stress, scarcity, and oppression, one way to prevent violence is to make sure people have support to get the things they need'. The idea that sexual violence arises from unmet material needs is rather unconvincing, especially within the context of an essay about Larry Nassar, a high earning doctor who used his position of power to sexually abuse underage gymnasts. It's also a line of thinking that arguably stigmatises people who are experiencing poverty. It doesn't take a genius to figure out how, say, guaranteeing universal access to housing could reduce the number of armed robberies that take place. And I have nothing but support for abolitionists campaigning for social welfare infrastructure of that sort. But it's lazy to copy paste the arguments you make about crimes that might actually be responses to poverty when you're talking about wealthy sex abusers, a population who are not marginalised in any meaningful sense.
If you're keen to read this book after reading my review, but you don't have a grounding in classic feminist texts from the 1970s/1980s, I would strongly recommend you read those first. Read Angela Y. Davis' Women, Race & Class; Andrea Dworkin's Right Wing Women; Nawal El Saadawi's Hidden Face of Eve. None are perfect, but many of their flaws can be attributed to age. There's an ugly tendency in 'intersectional' feminist circles (in my view, a capitulation to patriarchal ageist attitudes) to deride older works by feminist authors as hopelessly outdated and useless. As Dale Spender wrote in Women Of Ideas: And What Men Have Done To Them, 'Every fifty years women are required to reinvent the wheel, for every generation of women is initiated into a world in which women's traditions have been denied and buried.' Digitisation means that all of the classic works I've listed are a Google search away. Alas, algorithms would much rather we all consume anti-feminist nonsense. Sex(ism) sells, I guess.
Of course, I came to the book with my own biases: I'm a white British woman, and a feminist who views rape and domestic violence as manifestations of patriarchy. I'm also not new to prison abolitionism as an ideology. There's little here in the way of theorising that made me think, 'Oh, that's a way of thinking about X that I hadn't considered'. If you read this book with no prior knowledge of prison abolition, you would have a completely different experience. Unfortunately I don't have the ability to imagine being a 'blank slate' in that respect. I get the impression that Kaba (who has been organising against prisons for decades) lacks that ability, too: if I was totally new to prison abolition, I feel like this book would not be introductory enough in its tone.
As I make that critique, I acknowledge that this is a collection composed primarily of essays previously published by web media outlets. When Kaba wrote the essays featured here, she was writing for online, at least nominally left-wing audiences. Mariame Kaba didn't even *want* to write a book, really; rather, she was repeatedly asked to do so.
We Do This 'til We Free Us is valuable in the sense that it is a record of an influential thinker's work that might, otherwise, with time, be lost to link rot. But is it the pinnacle of nuanced, intellectually rigorous writing? Not at all. The essays would have benefited from editing to make them better suited to the book format. While the editor of a progressive blog probably doesn't want a list of citations, as a book (With the corresponding authority that people tend to assign books, deserved or otherwise), this work is being treated as a study resource. Not only is it an informal 'reading group' text, but I'm pretty sure some professors are assigning it on college course curricula. So, would it really kill Mariame to cite her sources? Lack of education can't be blamed here; Kaba attended a Manhattan high school where the yearly tuition is $40,500 (No, that's not a typo), followed by one of the most prestigious universities in the world.
Another Goodreads reviewer mentioned that Mariame uses a false stat about the % of prisoners who've been in foster care. That's not the only time Mariame misleads readers (whether intentionally or not) about the specifics of the facts she uses to bolster her arguments. For example, in the essay 'A Jailbreak of the Imagination' (Co authored with another writer, Kelly Hayes, which makes the lack of fact checking particularly troubling), Kaba uses the case of Tiffany Rusher (a prisoner with a history of trauma and serious mental illness who died by suicide in her cell) to make the case for prison abolition. Now, it shouldn't be hard for Kaba and Hayes to win me over here! Yes, I'm sceptical about an approach to abolition that insists that R. Kelly, Larry Nassar, and Harvey Weinstein shouldn't be in prison (Which is the approach that self-described feminist Kaba promotes throughout the book). However, the nature of female offending, in combination with women's life circumstances (Such as being far more likely than men to be a primary caregiver) means that the case for abolishing the female prison estate is much more compelling than Kaba's gender-neutral call to 'free them all'.
For reasons unknown to me, Kaba's choice of case study is a white woman who was in prison for child sex offenses (Tiffany Rusher's race is never mentioned, but this is what I inferred from photos of her online). White people who are imprisoned for such crimes are arguably the hardest demographic to base abolitionist arguments on. Child sexual abuse is incredibly common, but usually unreported. Rarely are people who perpetrate child sexual abuse put in prison. This is particularly the case for white Americans, who benefit from the criminal justice system's deeply rooted bias towards African Americans. Compare child molestation to a crime like theft. An abolitionist might argue that a person who is imprisoned for theft is likely to be poor and is committing crimes of survival. It's harder to make such a claim about child sexual abuse, a crime many would describe as indefensible.
Perhaps as a deliberate strategy to cultivate sympathy towards their case study, Kaba and Hayes omit morally significant information about Rusher's crimes. 'A Jailbreak of the Imagination' begins by describing Rusher as 'imprisoned on charges related to sex work'. Technically accurate; Rusher was charged with having sex with three minors in exchange for money. 'Minors?', you say. 'What, like 17 year olds?' Not quite. One was a 12 year old boy.
Do I sympathise with what Rusher went through in her short life? Yes. Her dependency on drugs led her to make some truly desperate decisions, and the grown men who knowingly purchased her sexual 'services' during her time as a prostitute are rapists for trying to buy the consent of such a vulnerable woman. Did they ever go to prison for exploiting Rusher? Probably not, which is an indictment of the criminal 'justice' system, for sure. In either case, the term 'sex work' (Implying a victimless transaction between consenting adults) is not very useful here.
A few pages into the essay, it's revealed that 'the crimes for which Tiffany Rusher was convicted involved sex with a minor'. Further, 'She was doing survival sex work when she was solicited to provide sexual services at a party. As it turned out, the young man a relative wanted to purchase sexual favors for was underage.' Perhaps the authors of the piece have access to court documents that us readers don't, but it would sure as hell be useful if they were cited! As I mentioned a couple of paragraphs ago, there were three minors, not one, **the youngest of whom was 12.** The essay makes no mention of specific ages, but Kaba and Hayes' wording ('young man') could reasonably be interpreted as meaning 'teenager who might plausibly be mistaken for an adult'.
I had to Google Rusher's name to find the details I laid out above. They were not hard to find, so why is the narrative presented by Kaba and Hayes so different? If Kaba and Hayes truly believe that *no one* deserves to be in prison, not even Harvey Weinstein, why play word games to disguise what Tiffany Rusher was accused of doing? Fishy. I don't stress my point here because I think that Rusher *deserved* to be effectively tortured to death in solitary confinement. I emphasise it because it's an example of Kaba being seriously misleading that really makes me question her integrity and trustworthiness.
Elsewhere, a lot of the book's worst moments involve Kaba discussing how society should deal with perpetrators of sexual violence. Simply put, her analysis of sexual violence is bad, because it is faith-based, not fact-based. The idea that rapists are all nice people, deep down, is a comforting one. 'Hurt people hurt people'; they abuse others because they themselves have been abused. This is not a feminist analysis of sexual violence. It's patriarchal pop psych nonsense with a quasi-religious flavour. If it were really true that rapists rape because they have experienced similar violence, why are the majority male? Why are their victims usually women and trans people? In 'The Sentencing of Larry Nassar Was Not "Transformative Justice". Here's Why' (another piece with Kelly Hayes), Kaba writes, 'Understanding that harm originates from situations dominated by stress, scarcity, and oppression, one way to prevent violence is to make sure people have support to get the things they need'. The idea that sexual violence arises from unmet material needs is rather unconvincing, especially within the context of an essay about Larry Nassar, a high earning doctor who used his position of power to sexually abuse underage gymnasts. It's also a line of thinking that arguably stigmatises people who are experiencing poverty. It doesn't take a genius to figure out how, say, guaranteeing universal access to housing could reduce the number of armed robberies that take place. And I have nothing but support for abolitionists campaigning for social welfare infrastructure of that sort. But it's lazy to copy paste the arguments you make about crimes that might actually be responses to poverty when you're talking about wealthy sex abusers, a population who are not marginalised in any meaningful sense.
If you're keen to read this book after reading my review, but you don't have a grounding in classic feminist texts from the 1970s/1980s, I would strongly recommend you read those first. Read Angela Y. Davis' Women, Race & Class; Andrea Dworkin's Right Wing Women; Nawal El Saadawi's Hidden Face of Eve. None are perfect, but many of their flaws can be attributed to age. There's an ugly tendency in 'intersectional' feminist circles (in my view, a capitulation to patriarchal ageist attitudes) to deride older works by feminist authors as hopelessly outdated and useless. As Dale Spender wrote in Women Of Ideas: And What Men Have Done To Them, 'Every fifty years women are required to reinvent the wheel, for every generation of women is initiated into a world in which women's traditions have been denied and buried.' Digitisation means that all of the classic works I've listed are a Google search away. Alas, algorithms would much rather we all consume anti-feminist nonsense. Sex(ism) sells, I guess.
July 8, 2021
I found this book to be a strange mix of uplifting and emotionally grueling. I think Kaba is at her best when she's talking about youth services work, criminalized survivors, and how difficult and demanding abolition politics can in fact be. I think she deserves all the criticism she got for glib comments about how abolition "is not about your fucking feelings". If you're claiming that the experiences of harm-survivors is central to the project you're proposing, you should avoid saying things like that. That's just me, though.
Read
January 22, 2022no rating because that's not what we're here for.
i think this serves as a great accesible introductory text from someone who has been in the abolition organizer game for years. it's not heavy on theory and even goes into how regular non-academic people get into such work and just lays everything out so well. i disagree with people who say 'well HOW are we supposed to work towards abolition?! take that!' when reading this because kaba lays out many examples and organizations that are doing the work that you should look up after reading this. that criticism makes me wonder if that rebel steps interview on activism v. organizing went over their head.
i think kaba shows an abundant well of kindness towards those of us working through an automatic connection of justice with punishment and one's trepidation around a society without police and prisons (just throw this at everyone who goes 'what so you want rapists out and about?!'), but also firm in her views (i know the 'abolition is not about your fucking feelings' line has and will continue to ruffle so many feathers; towards the end of the book, kaba states you don't have to consider yourself an prison industrial complex abolitionist while also not allowing for co-opting of the term/movement). this pairs well with vitale's the end of policing being a historical overview and noting consequences, and kaba's being the work that is currently done and issues the movement and organizers face.
i think this serves as a great accesible introductory text from someone who has been in the abolition organizer game for years. it's not heavy on theory and even goes into how regular non-academic people get into such work and just lays everything out so well. i disagree with people who say 'well HOW are we supposed to work towards abolition?! take that!' when reading this because kaba lays out many examples and organizations that are doing the work that you should look up after reading this. that criticism makes me wonder if that rebel steps interview on activism v. organizing went over their head.
i think kaba shows an abundant well of kindness towards those of us working through an automatic connection of justice with punishment and one's trepidation around a society without police and prisons (just throw this at everyone who goes 'what so you want rapists out and about?!'), but also firm in her views (i know the 'abolition is not about your fucking feelings' line has and will continue to ruffle so many feathers; towards the end of the book, kaba states you don't have to consider yourself an prison industrial complex abolitionist while also not allowing for co-opting of the term/movement). this pairs well with vitale's the end of policing being a historical overview and noting consequences, and kaba's being the work that is currently done and issues the movement and organizers face.
September 20, 2023
A worthwhile guide both for those new to abolition and those who are abolitionists looking for further clarity on certain aspects of it. Mariame Kaba is a really good abolition educator, her articulate writing is accessible in very practical, helpful ways.
March 27, 2025
moi qui crie tous les jours que je suis une bonne gaucho, cet essai m’a appris que je ne l’étais pas encore assez
pitié lisez le, il y a tellement 1000 choses à apprendre du mouvement abolitionniste et de Mariame Kaba
pitié lisez le, il y a tellement 1000 choses à apprendre du mouvement abolitionniste et de Mariame Kaba
April 6, 2021
a book i'll come back to and re-read. quotes that i'm thinking about:
- "abolition is not about your feelings. it is not about emotional satisfaction. it is about transforming the conditions in which we live work, and play"
- "transformative justice is militantly against the dichotomies between victims and perpetrators, because the world is more complex than that: in a particular situation we're victimized, and in other situations we're the people that perpetrate harm. we have to be able to hold all those things together"
- "i think love is a requirement of principled struggle, both self-love and love of others, that we must all do what we can, that it is better to do something rather than nothing, that we have to trust others as well as ourselves. i often repeat the adage that 'hope is a discipline.' we must practice it daily"
- "abolition is not about your feelings. it is not about emotional satisfaction. it is about transforming the conditions in which we live work, and play"
- "transformative justice is militantly against the dichotomies between victims and perpetrators, because the world is more complex than that: in a particular situation we're victimized, and in other situations we're the people that perpetrate harm. we have to be able to hold all those things together"
- "i think love is a requirement of principled struggle, both self-love and love of others, that we must all do what we can, that it is better to do something rather than nothing, that we have to trust others as well as ourselves. i often repeat the adage that 'hope is a discipline.' we must practice it daily"
April 14, 2021
A must-read for anyone interested in a better world. Kaba is brilliant, and has a huge heart. Her ideas are visionary, useful, and most of all, necessary. I highlighted nearly one sentence in every paragraph. Her ideas are not only good, and built from the bottom up with love, but also written very precisely and accessibly. The words ring clear as a bell. Please read this book. I'm begging you.
September 28, 2021
Nothing I say will do this book justice. Abolition isn’t a trend, or a hashtag, or “about your fucking feelings.” Mariame Kaba makes the necessity of transformative justice clear, and inspires the reader to hope and fight for a more just world. A world without punishment, police, or prisons.
January 20, 2025
Phenomenal read. To my friends, I ask you to read this. We must continue be think of a society we have not seen in our lifetime. We must think of ways we can achieve that society. I appreciate the message that organizing and abolition naturally involves failure and that does not make it less legit. I do not know what led me to wanting to work with people who have caused harm, and I still don’t necessarily know. What I do know is that I believe that people who cause harm have the ability/right to be transformed and that is not through punishment. I know that I believe in the dignity and worth of all people. This book reaffirmed me working forward to living as an abolitionist, and made me critically think on things I haven’t thought about enough.
Some quotes:
“You don't have to know all the answers in order to be able to press for a vision. That's ridiculous. I hope people aren't feeling that kind of pressure, but I do hope people are feeling a sense of wanting to make a bunch of things.”
“Multiple studies indicate that between 71% and 95% of incarcerated woman have experienced physical violence from an intimate partner. In addition,many have experienced multiple forms of physical and sexual abuse in childhood and as adults. This reality has been termed the abuse-to-prison pipeline. These numbers are high because survivors are systematically punished for taking action to protect themselves and their children while living in unstable and dangerous conditions. Survivors are criminalized for self-defense, failing to control abusers' violence, migration, removing their children from situations of abuse, being coerced into criminalized activity, and securing resources needed to live day-to-day while suffering economic abuse.”
“Beyond strategic assessments of what is most likely to bring justice, ultimately we must choose to support collective responses that align with our values. Demands for arrests and prosecutions of killer cops are inconsistent with demands to #DefundPolice because they have proven to be sources of violence not safety. We can't claim the system must be dismantled because it is a danger to Black lives and at the same time legitimize it by turning to it for justice. As Angela Y. Davis points out, "we have to be consistent" in our analysis and not respond to violence in a way that compounds it. We need to use our radical imaginations to come up with new structures of accountability beyond the system we are working to dismantle.”
Some quotes:
“You don't have to know all the answers in order to be able to press for a vision. That's ridiculous. I hope people aren't feeling that kind of pressure, but I do hope people are feeling a sense of wanting to make a bunch of things.”
“Multiple studies indicate that between 71% and 95% of incarcerated woman have experienced physical violence from an intimate partner. In addition,many have experienced multiple forms of physical and sexual abuse in childhood and as adults. This reality has been termed the abuse-to-prison pipeline. These numbers are high because survivors are systematically punished for taking action to protect themselves and their children while living in unstable and dangerous conditions. Survivors are criminalized for self-defense, failing to control abusers' violence, migration, removing their children from situations of abuse, being coerced into criminalized activity, and securing resources needed to live day-to-day while suffering economic abuse.”
“Beyond strategic assessments of what is most likely to bring justice, ultimately we must choose to support collective responses that align with our values. Demands for arrests and prosecutions of killer cops are inconsistent with demands to #DefundPolice because they have proven to be sources of violence not safety. We can't claim the system must be dismantled because it is a danger to Black lives and at the same time legitimize it by turning to it for justice. As Angela Y. Davis points out, "we have to be consistent" in our analysis and not respond to violence in a way that compounds it. We need to use our radical imaginations to come up with new structures of accountability beyond the system we are working to dismantle.”
June 10, 2021
I read this for a book club and I'm so glad one of our readers suggested it. I've been very confused about what "Defund the Police" means in theory and in practice. I fully agree that policing, the justice system, the prison system...all these institutions that I've believed were necessary and moral...are actually hot garbage steeped in racism. I just didn't know what was being offered as a solution.
And I couldn't imagine anything on my own. I'm very much a product of the school system in which I was educated to believe in the sanctity of these institutions. Additionally, my dad was a labor lawyer who worked for the cops. He hasn't worked in decades but the work he was doing as I understood it, has resulted in a situation that I find difficult to reconcile with the man I believe he was. So, in addition to my general confusion about the situation, I have a lot of personal baggage I'm toting too.
What I learned is that the prison abolition organizers and activists do not have a concrete plan to offer as a replacement. And this is okay. It's okay to recognize that what we have now is a racially oppressive form of state sanctioned torture and that we can dismantle that and build something in its place that we create through trial and error as we go. In a world where we've never been allowed to imagine anything else, it doesn't make sense that we would be able to know exactly what something else would look like.
I learned many other things but for me, this was of key importance.
I very much appreciated the brief discussion of the issue of what it means for Black Americans to be asking for reparations in the form of land, on land that belonged to someone else (Native Americans who were dispossessed and nearly eliminated from existence) when slaves arrived. What does that mean to people who were forced here in the scourge of chattel slavery? It bears a discussion as does the issue of the tribes that bought African slaves and now will not acknowledge their descendants as tribal members entitled to tribal protections and benefits.
As a POC, I get pretty tired of how the conversations around race are always centered on whiteness. Even among white people who want to understand racism, the focus is ALWAYS on their guilt for their participation in a system that sustains racism. They are not open to discussions about how that racism has impacted relations between different non-white groups. In fact, they can pretty dismissive if you bring it up. "Yes, this tension between Black Americans and Asian Americans is a thing...but what about how horrible we white people are? Can we talk about us again?"
I think I understand how tricky it would be for white people to enter this discussion. I mean, they really shouldn't. But, they needn't be dismissive. Or even worse, ignore that racism is a factor in non-white relationships too. It denies the humanity of non-white people to always assume that we are somehow more pure than white people, or that we needn't confront our own participation in the system that exploited us.
That's a lot of writing for what amounted to about a short paragraph of text in this important and incredibly interesting book. And there are many lines and paragraphs that serve as similar launching points for all kinds of discussions. I'll be chewing on this for a long time.
And I couldn't imagine anything on my own. I'm very much a product of the school system in which I was educated to believe in the sanctity of these institutions. Additionally, my dad was a labor lawyer who worked for the cops. He hasn't worked in decades but the work he was doing as I understood it, has resulted in a situation that I find difficult to reconcile with the man I believe he was. So, in addition to my general confusion about the situation, I have a lot of personal baggage I'm toting too.
What I learned is that the prison abolition organizers and activists do not have a concrete plan to offer as a replacement. And this is okay. It's okay to recognize that what we have now is a racially oppressive form of state sanctioned torture and that we can dismantle that and build something in its place that we create through trial and error as we go. In a world where we've never been allowed to imagine anything else, it doesn't make sense that we would be able to know exactly what something else would look like.
I learned many other things but for me, this was of key importance.
I very much appreciated the brief discussion of the issue of what it means for Black Americans to be asking for reparations in the form of land, on land that belonged to someone else (Native Americans who were dispossessed and nearly eliminated from existence) when slaves arrived. What does that mean to people who were forced here in the scourge of chattel slavery? It bears a discussion as does the issue of the tribes that bought African slaves and now will not acknowledge their descendants as tribal members entitled to tribal protections and benefits.
As a POC, I get pretty tired of how the conversations around race are always centered on whiteness. Even among white people who want to understand racism, the focus is ALWAYS on their guilt for their participation in a system that sustains racism. They are not open to discussions about how that racism has impacted relations between different non-white groups. In fact, they can pretty dismissive if you bring it up. "Yes, this tension between Black Americans and Asian Americans is a thing...but what about how horrible we white people are? Can we talk about us again?"
I think I understand how tricky it would be for white people to enter this discussion. I mean, they really shouldn't. But, they needn't be dismissive. Or even worse, ignore that racism is a factor in non-white relationships too. It denies the humanity of non-white people to always assume that we are somehow more pure than white people, or that we needn't confront our own participation in the system that exploited us.
That's a lot of writing for what amounted to about a short paragraph of text in this important and incredibly interesting book. And there are many lines and paragraphs that serve as similar launching points for all kinds of discussions. I'll be chewing on this for a long time.
January 20, 2022
Just such a great compilation of so many of Mariame Kaba's writings in key moments of resisting the prison industrial complex and police in recent years, as well as some hopeful visions of the ways people are really building abolitionist futures. A must-read for anyone who calls themself an abolitionist, is thinking about abolition, or is skeptical about abolition. Kaba offers her continued humble brilliance and expertise around what we need to learn and unlearn on the path to abolition.
February 23, 2023
so clear and concise. im feeling very grateful to have this as a resource that i can return to.
January 4, 2022
this book was very good. i love essay & interview format books i think they make the info very easy to digest. for someone who had a rather rudimentary definition of abolition and transformative justice i appreciated how in depth it went while still being accessible for beginners.
my favorite part was the short story when i read it i was like HOLY CRAP because i was not expecting any fiction pieces and it was such a perfect example of how you can learn as much from fiction as nonfiction. it was very similar to pet which i was already wanting to reread but now even more.
i’m not going to pretend i understood everything especially because this book was so jam packed but might get a copy so i can reread parts when i want. would recommend!
my favorite part was the short story when i read it i was like HOLY CRAP because i was not expecting any fiction pieces and it was such a perfect example of how you can learn as much from fiction as nonfiction. it was very similar to pet which i was already wanting to reread but now even more.
i’m not going to pretend i understood everything especially because this book was so jam packed but might get a copy so i can reread parts when i want. would recommend!
January 27, 2024
I’m half ready to embroider throw pillows with quotes from this book on them. I LOVE this book. Please read!
March 16, 2021
Full of insight and inspiration. Highly recommended.
April 4, 2023
As Quinn said, what a gift. Reading this was such a grounding experience. It grounded the chaos and emotional weight of organizing with bail fund in a purpose, vision, and journey much bigger than myself. I think I will revisit this many times in the years to come.
November 30, 2024
finally returning to reading after starting school
this was great but it would’ve definitely been more impactful if I read it when it came out - I love everything worthwhile is done with others ♥️
this was great but it would’ve definitely been more impactful if I read it when it came out - I love everything worthwhile is done with others ♥️
May 13, 2021
A good book to read slowly and ponder. It's composed of short essays and interviews, so you can read a little bit at a time. It's sort of relaxing to read because Kaba is very knowledgeable and is a good teacher; she lays things out very clearly. If you are interested in abolition of the PIC (prison industrial complex) this is an good place to start and a good place to continue learning.
June 19, 2024
Amazing and inspiring!!!! A bit repetitive but I listened on audio book so I didn’t mind it that much.
Her focus on the collective and care is completely anti capitalist and really inspiring to me. I feel this book gave me the tools to go from believing in prison abolition to being able to live a more abolitionist life and talk confidently about the cause!! THANK YOU MARIAME KABA!
Her focus on the collective and care is completely anti capitalist and really inspiring to me. I feel this book gave me the tools to go from believing in prison abolition to being able to live a more abolitionist life and talk confidently about the cause!! THANK YOU MARIAME KABA!
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