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Second Foundation Trilogy #1
Foundation's Fear
Isaac Asimov's Foundation Trilogy is one of the high-water marks of science fiction. It is the monumental story of a Galactic Empire in decline, and the secret society of scientists who seek to shorten the inevitable Dark Age with the science of psychohistory. Now, with the permission -- and blessing -- of the Asimov estate, the epic saga continues.
Fate -- and a cruel Emperor's arbitrary power -- have thrust Hari Seldon into the First Ministership of the Empire against his will. As the story opens, Hari is about to leave his quiet professorship and take on the all but impossible task of administering 25 million inhabited worlds from the all-steel planet of Trantor. With the help of his beautiful bio-engineered "wife" Dors and his alien companion Yugo, Seldon is still developing the science that will transform history, never dreaming that it will ultimately pit him against future history's most awesome threat.
Fate -- and a cruel Emperor's arbitrary power -- have thrust Hari Seldon into the First Ministership of the Empire against his will. As the story opens, Hari is about to leave his quiet professorship and take on the all but impossible task of administering 25 million inhabited worlds from the all-steel planet of Trantor. With the help of his beautiful bio-engineered "wife" Dors and his alien companion Yugo, Seldon is still developing the science that will transform history, never dreaming that it will ultimately pit him against future history's most awesome threat.
608 pages, Mass Market Paperback
First published February 1, 1997
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About the author
Gregory Benford
565 books615 followersGregory Benford is an American science fiction author and astrophysicist who is on the faculty of the Department of Physics and Astronomy at the University of California, Irvine.
As a science fiction author, Benford is best known for the Galactic Center Saga novels, beginning with In the Ocean of Night (1977). This series postulates a galaxy in which sentient organic life is in constant warfare with sentient mechanical life.
As a science fiction author, Benford is best known for the Galactic Center Saga novels, beginning with In the Ocean of Night (1977). This series postulates a galaxy in which sentient organic life is in constant warfare with sentient mechanical life.
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 216 reviews
November 8, 2021
This is the first book in the so-called "second Foundation trilogy". None of the books were penned by Asimov himself, but somehow my buddy-reader still got me to read them.
This first one takes place during the events in Forward the Foundation and details how Hari came to accept the Emperor's appointment to First Minister.
There is a powerful member of the High Council who doesn't want Hari to become First Minister which eventually means that Hari and his wife have to flee Trantor to escape him (resulting in their interesting experience of VR).
In the meantime, we see more of the project that will result in the Seldon Plan but also AI research and the evolution of sims. Two such sims are called Voltaire and Joan (of Arc). They were created, amongst other things, to decide the debate about whether mechanical beings with artificial intelligence should be built or not and if so, whether they should receive full citizenship (which neatly ties back into the robot stories that is also important here because of Dors and Daneel).
In the end, the author goes a bit overboard with what the sims do in Trantor's version of the internet (called Mesh), what they encounter there and how that helps Hari.
In the end, as we know from the second official book of the series, Hari defeats the High Council member and accepts his appointment as First Minister.
I gotta say that I was unimpressed with this book. Not only was the audio book narrator (as well as the audio recording, quality-wise) really bad, Benford also didn't manage to hit the right tone at all.
This resulted in the entire story not feeling as if it belonged at all.
Added to this is the weird-ass plot point of that completely threw me. It might have worked in a different scifi story but definitely didn't have a place here because the implications and consequences would have been HUGE so it also creates a continuity error if you ask me.
Not the worst book I've ever read but definitely not good and not really canon either (surprising, considering the Asimov estate sanctioned this second trilogy). :(
At least I have more to read. Though the next one is ALSO from the second trilogy ... we'll see if Greg Bear does better.
P.S.: After reading the next one, I even had to downrate this first. The physics didn't match Asimov's and Bear had to spend quite some time at the beginning of his novel correcting several things Benford had done. That's just ... yeah. Since I can't rate the second book 3 stars, I have to downrate this one to 1 star. Sorry-not-sorry.
This first one takes place during the events in Forward the Foundation and details how Hari came to accept the Emperor's appointment to First Minister.
There is a powerful member of the High Council who doesn't want Hari to become First Minister which eventually means that Hari and his wife have to flee Trantor to escape him (resulting in their interesting experience of VR).
In the meantime, we see more of the project that will result in the Seldon Plan but also AI research and the evolution of sims. Two such sims are called Voltaire and Joan (of Arc). They were created, amongst other things, to decide the debate about whether mechanical beings with artificial intelligence should be built or not and if so, whether they should receive full citizenship (which neatly ties back into the robot stories that is also important here because of Dors and Daneel).
In the end, the author goes a bit overboard with what the sims do in Trantor's version of the internet (called Mesh), what they encounter there and how that helps Hari.
In the end, as we know from the second official book of the series, Hari defeats the High Council member and accepts his appointment as First Minister.
I gotta say that I was unimpressed with this book. Not only was the audio book narrator (as well as the audio recording, quality-wise) really bad, Benford also didn't manage to hit the right tone at all.
This resulted in the entire story not feeling as if it belonged at all.
Added to this is the weird-ass plot point of that completely threw me. It might have worked in a different scifi story but definitely didn't have a place here because the implications and consequences would have been HUGE so it also creates a continuity error if you ask me.
Not the worst book I've ever read but definitely not good and not really canon either (surprising, considering the Asimov estate sanctioned this second trilogy). :(
At least I have more to read. Though the next one is ALSO from the second trilogy ... we'll see if Greg Bear does better.
P.S.: After reading the next one, I even had to downrate this first. The physics didn't match Asimov's and Bear had to spend quite some time at the beginning of his novel correcting several things Benford had done. That's just ... yeah. Since I can't rate the second book 3 stars, I have to downrate this one to 1 star. Sorry-not-sorry.
June 28, 2011
This first entry into the Foundation (2) Trilogy by other authors is a mess. I would not have finished it except that I wanted to read the additional entries in the series. I had read reader reviews before I started this book, so I was prepared for it to have problems.
There are three major strands in the story. One is the attempt by the Emperor to nominate Hari as first minister. Cleon knows of Hari's work on psycohistory. This story winds its way through the 578 pages and is a relatively cogent, and readable story for most people, I think. There is intrigue and violence and plots and counter plots all involved in Hari's attempt to be confirmed in the position.
A second story involves simulated intelligences inside of computer systems named Voltaire and Joan of Arc. This begins in a big way around page 100 and continues on and off until the end of the book. I found this storyline uninteresting and distracting from the Foundation premise and story. I did not understand a purpose or point to this storyline. The author explains after another couple of hundred pages why the sims are important to the plot of this book. But by then I had lost all interest in them, and I think they could be removed entirely from the book, with no loss of coherence or plot development.
The third major storyline involves Chimpanzees. This storyline about pans as they are called in the book starts around page 327. I was actually looking forward to this storyline since I had read that the author introduced them as a tool for Hari's development of psycohostory. Although we see a connection between the pan episodes and Hari's theory development, here again I found this storyline distracting and merely an interlude away from the main story. Again here is a major section, which I feel could have been completely excised with a resulting improvement to the plot flow.
I give this book 3 stars, because of my strong interest in Asimov world and the other two entries in this trilogy. Also, as I mentioned I found one of the storylines interesting and worth my time. But if I did not have an ulterior motive in reading this book I would not have finished it, and it would have earned less stars from me. This is copied from my identical review in LibraryThing.
There are three major strands in the story. One is the attempt by the Emperor to nominate Hari as first minister. Cleon knows of Hari's work on psycohistory. This story winds its way through the 578 pages and is a relatively cogent, and readable story for most people, I think. There is intrigue and violence and plots and counter plots all involved in Hari's attempt to be confirmed in the position.
A second story involves simulated intelligences inside of computer systems named Voltaire and Joan of Arc. This begins in a big way around page 100 and continues on and off until the end of the book. I found this storyline uninteresting and distracting from the Foundation premise and story. I did not understand a purpose or point to this storyline. The author explains after another couple of hundred pages why the sims are important to the plot of this book. But by then I had lost all interest in them, and I think they could be removed entirely from the book, with no loss of coherence or plot development.
The third major storyline involves Chimpanzees. This storyline about pans as they are called in the book starts around page 327. I was actually looking forward to this storyline since I had read that the author introduced them as a tool for Hari's development of psycohostory. Although we see a connection between the pan episodes and Hari's theory development, here again I found this storyline distracting and merely an interlude away from the main story. Again here is a major section, which I feel could have been completely excised with a resulting improvement to the plot flow.
I give this book 3 stars, because of my strong interest in Asimov world and the other two entries in this trilogy. Also, as I mentioned I found one of the storylines interesting and worth my time. But if I did not have an ulterior motive in reading this book I would not have finished it, and it would have earned less stars from me. This is copied from my identical review in LibraryThing.
September 27, 2008
So it took me over a month to get through this disaster of a book, and I ended up skimming some of it just to get through it. If you haven't read the original Foundation books, SPOILER ahead.
The entire reason this book exists is to show, in detail, Seldon's ascent from academian to First Minister. There was an almost-interesting sidebar about how another species helped him form his theory of psychohistory. All in all, not a book worth reading.
The first part of the book starts out good: it's reminiscent of Asimov's original, the characters are believable, and I was just generally excited about reading more about Seldon. (The author was somewhat annoying in that he kept restating things and practically beating me over the head with some ideas. Not as bad as Dan Brown does, but not far off.)
That's where my love affair with this book ended and the hatred began. The next section delves deeply into new characters, "sims" (essentially computer-reproduced self-aware personalities) of Voltaire and Joan of Arc. BORING. Author rambles on and on and ON about what it's like to "live" inside the net. Philosophy abounds. It was like being dropped into a completely separate novel that didn't flow at all with the first part of the book.
The author did bring the two sets of characters together by the end of the book, but it wasn't interesting and by that point I really just wanted the book to end! It was obvious where it was going and there was no need to have 40 more pages in the book. Someone get this guy a better editor.
The entire reason this book exists is to show, in detail, Seldon's ascent from academian to First Minister. There was an almost-interesting sidebar about how another species helped him form his theory of psychohistory. All in all, not a book worth reading.
The first part of the book starts out good: it's reminiscent of Asimov's original, the characters are believable, and I was just generally excited about reading more about Seldon. (The author was somewhat annoying in that he kept restating things and practically beating me over the head with some ideas. Not as bad as Dan Brown does, but not far off.)
That's where my love affair with this book ended and the hatred began. The next section delves deeply into new characters, "sims" (essentially computer-reproduced self-aware personalities) of Voltaire and Joan of Arc. BORING. Author rambles on and on and ON about what it's like to "live" inside the net. Philosophy abounds. It was like being dropped into a completely separate novel that didn't flow at all with the first part of the book.
The author did bring the two sets of characters together by the end of the book, but it wasn't interesting and by that point I really just wanted the book to end! It was obvious where it was going and there was no need to have 40 more pages in the book. Someone get this guy a better editor.
November 7, 2021
I'm of two minds on this book. If it had been a regular SF without following the dictates of someone else's worldbuilding, Asimov, or otherwise, it probably would have been a pretty interesting novel.
All on its own, it deftly handles many questions of human consciousness, from alien internets (at the time when we were just spreading our own internet), simulations of consciousness within computer systems, sharing consciousness with our close cousins (apes, through sim-nets), and the problem of consciousness with AIs.
It definitely has an older SF feel and is fun just for the science bits.
The story, however, is all tied up in knots around Hari Seldon, of Asimov's creation, and he is supposed to be creating the Prime Radiant and fulfilling the full promise of what the Foundation stands for -- reducing the dark age of the upcoming fall of the Galactic Empire.
All these disparate hypotheses and mix of real-science constraints that would have made up a tighter Prime Radiant might have been a great addition to the overall Foundation story -- IF it had been written better.
As it is, the novel kind of rambles, spending too much time on relatively unimportant characters or sims, overstays its welcome, and often just gets bogged down in half-formed nonsense that detracted from the actual decent science. It could have been half the size, keeping only the good shit, and I would have been really happy with getting a peek at Hari's middle years and hard work.
As it is here, I'm wondering why I wasted so much of my time when I already HAD a pretty good idea of what Psychohistory already WAS.
Alas.
All on its own, it deftly handles many questions of human consciousness, from alien internets (at the time when we were just spreading our own internet), simulations of consciousness within computer systems, sharing consciousness with our close cousins (apes, through sim-nets), and the problem of consciousness with AIs.
It definitely has an older SF feel and is fun just for the science bits.
The story, however, is all tied up in knots around Hari Seldon, of Asimov's creation, and he is supposed to be creating the Prime Radiant and fulfilling the full promise of what the Foundation stands for -- reducing the dark age of the upcoming fall of the Galactic Empire.
All these disparate hypotheses and mix of real-science constraints that would have made up a tighter Prime Radiant might have been a great addition to the overall Foundation story -- IF it had been written better.
As it is, the novel kind of rambles, spending too much time on relatively unimportant characters or sims, overstays its welcome, and often just gets bogged down in half-formed nonsense that detracted from the actual decent science. It could have been half the size, keeping only the good shit, and I would have been really happy with getting a peek at Hari's middle years and hard work.
As it is here, I'm wondering why I wasted so much of my time when I already HAD a pretty good idea of what Psychohistory already WAS.
Alas.
June 29, 2012
"is not canon"
This book is written in a much different tone than that of Asimov's, and that takes a toll on the feel. By taking the Empire and Robot legacies and projecting onto it, I think Benford creates a distraction from the Asimov universe, not a development or refinement. It leaves me with the same slightly-betrayed feeling as if Turner Classic Movies produced a colorized spinoff called "Casablanca: the Paris years".
This book contains complicated mishmashes of ideas and philosophical treatises (Spirit, souls, faith. Memes, logic, selves.) married with poorly described technology that seems weak advancement of our own (how many post-cyberpunk novels feature some sort of totally immersive Mesh/Web/Space where you can make things virtualize… just by thinking it! Equations in 3D space-- now they totally make sense! Wowsers!). Plot points happen and then pass (for reasons of "well, that had to be"). Dialogue… happens. Overall, not very engaging.
August 4, 2011
How can you write a tribute to one of the greatest works of science fiction by one of the greatest science fiction authors and start out by throwing his physics out the window and replacing them with your own? Don't bother reading this one.
January 15, 2010
Benford was given a tough task: trying to flesh out Hari Seldon's conception of psychohistory. Benford's answer is the scientist propaganda of our day: that humanity can be understood more deeply by looking at our simian ancestors. Benford did wrestle somewhat admirably with the idea of the self as a self-organizing, emergent property of the complexity of the brain and with emotions as endemic to all animals.
However, Benford is not a very good writer, there were several times when I was simply unclear about who was talking to whom or what was going on. Plus, Benford's "solutions" including the idea of meta-knowledge, to psychohistory were not very insightful. And he didn't even set them up as insightful for Hari, which he could have done.
Finally, Benford really doesn't have a feel for the characters. I haven't read the Foundation books in a long time, but I could still feel the difference between Asimov's conception of Daneel and Hari and Benford's. And the random introduction of aliens really doesn't fit the universe. And Benford's subtle nods to later Foundation novels are ham-fisted and overdone.
All in all, it was an okay book, mostly because it made me want to read Asimov again.
However, Benford is not a very good writer, there were several times when I was simply unclear about who was talking to whom or what was going on. Plus, Benford's "solutions" including the idea of meta-knowledge, to psychohistory were not very insightful. And he didn't even set them up as insightful for Hari, which he could have done.
Finally, Benford really doesn't have a feel for the characters. I haven't read the Foundation books in a long time, but I could still feel the difference between Asimov's conception of Daneel and Hari and Benford's. And the random introduction of aliens really doesn't fit the universe. And Benford's subtle nods to later Foundation novels are ham-fisted and overdone.
All in all, it was an okay book, mostly because it made me want to read Asimov again.
February 20, 2013
I had not even known about the second Foundation trilogy until last month, when I became an instant fan of the author of the third book in the set — so much so that I purchased that third book after reading complementary comments about it about the Internet, but it occurred to me that it made no sense to read the third book in a trilogy before reading the preceding two, so I sought this one out at the library, despite the fact that I had noticed many of those reviewing comments expressing praise for the third book but seeming to have nothing but disdain for the first two. Now that I have read it and am ready to comment myself, I find myself absolutely befuddled at all the disparaging comments that have been made by other Goodreads readers about this novel. I am in fact more than tempted to rate this book at five stars, except that I keep finding myself giving as reasons for doing so things that have nothing to do with the content — such as that it is a brave new attempt to add onto an extremely popular and well-known work of the past. Something must be said about style, and I will admit that Benford’s style and pace seem a bit heavy at times. Actually, there is so much in this book that I think it needs to be read again in order to be properly evaluated … moreover, I am now convinced that, since this first book of the second Foundation trilogy apparently actually is conceived as a prequell to the first Foundation trilogy, that I must now go seek out that first trilogy (which have believed to be hiding somewhere in one of the bookshelves down in my basement) and reread it, and then read the next two of the second trilogy, and then come back to this one again, and perhaps to all of them.
Some of the disparaging reviewers have complained that there is too much dialogue in this book. There is a lot of dialogue, but for the most part I found it very interesting dialogue. There is, for example, a terrific discussion in the second part (Section 13) about the distinctions between the soul, body, and ego — with the discussion made even more interesting by the fact that it takes place between a young scientist (who happens to have a hangover and is not quite willing to admit that he has an attraction to the female scientist who works with him) and a 1000-year-old artificial re-creation of the mind of one of our past philosophers, Voltaire. This is only a prelude to a longer debate that takes place between that same Voltaire and another even older artificial re-creation, Joan of Arc, with both of these re-created intelligences having been brought back from extinction purely for the sake of conducting a debate on the question of whether man-made intelligences have a soul (a question which takes on added significance in view of the fact that we also witnessed incipient love affair between two low-level mechanicals as another side plot). Voltaire, held up as the perfect example of the rational man, comes prepared to argue that the soul does not exist; Joan of Arc, the epitome of religious thought and feeling, is selected as his most worthy opponent … but these two artificial intelligences complicate the whole process by falling in love with each other. So what have these two and their discussion to do with the world as it existed before Hari Sedon created the foundation, you might ask — and the actual answer is … probably nothing much, except that it gives Benford an opportunity to tell us many things about life in the world of the pre-Foundation empire as well as to suggest that some of the thoughts that came out of this debate were crucial to Seldon’s developing concept of psychohistory.
Similarly, there is a another extensive side plot in which Seldon and his rather remarkable wife take a “vacation” as a means of getting away from would-be assassins after a few attempts have been made on his life while waiting for the Galactic Council to approve the Emperor’s nomination of Hari as the new First Minister. This vacation includes a visit to the planet of Panucopia, where the local treat is a mental excursion that puts the intelligence of the tourists into the minds of primitive primates, which we can take to be the relatively undeveloped offspring of baboons. These excursions normally extend for just a few hours, but the long hand of the forces behind the assassination attempts reaches out even this far, and Hari and his wife find their mental selves locked into the bodies of two of these pan creatures, with no way to get back to their own bodies, which are locked away in the visitor center. Again, some of the disparagers have questioned what this side plot has to do with the story — and, again, probably very little, although Benford has Hari subsequently attributing his perfection of the psychohistory formula to some of the elements what he learned while living as a pan. In addition, Hari’s attitude toward life and the First Ministership clearly undergo a change because of this experience.
To me, these and other subplots do not seem a distraction at all. It is part of the grand, sweeping view of life in the Galactic Empire of 25 million inhabited planets, spread out in a disk like expansion from the forgotten home planet of Earth, now lost in the mists of time and legend. It is an inherent impossibility to summarize all that humanity, but Bedford does so by focusing in on a few key characters with the empire around them merely constituting a backdrop. All authors do this, of course, and in my humble opinion Bedford does it very well. When I pick up a novel that supposedly takes place 10,000 or so years in my future, I expect to find certain things very different, but I also expect to find a reasoned portrayal of how humanity fits into that different life, and this novel does that very well, indeed. The novel entertained me, amused me (which is not at all the same thing), and informed me — what more would we want from a novel?
It has been something more than 50 years, I think, since I read the Asimov’s first trilogy, and I have to admit that most of its details are more than fuzzy in my mind, which is another reason why I intend to go seek it out and read it again. I do not recall, for instance, that Hari was married to a robot — in this case, a rabbit who is charged with the particular task of protecting Hari so that he can develop his psychohistory theory. I also do not recall that R. Daneel Olivaw, one of Asimov’s greatest robot creations, was involved in that original trilogy. Whether old or new, however, I find these things portrayed in an interesting manner, and I found the novel increasingly interesting and tenacious as I went through it.
Some of the disparaging reviewers have complained that there is too much dialogue in this book. There is a lot of dialogue, but for the most part I found it very interesting dialogue. There is, for example, a terrific discussion in the second part (Section 13) about the distinctions between the soul, body, and ego — with the discussion made even more interesting by the fact that it takes place between a young scientist (who happens to have a hangover and is not quite willing to admit that he has an attraction to the female scientist who works with him) and a 1000-year-old artificial re-creation of the mind of one of our past philosophers, Voltaire. This is only a prelude to a longer debate that takes place between that same Voltaire and another even older artificial re-creation, Joan of Arc, with both of these re-created intelligences having been brought back from extinction purely for the sake of conducting a debate on the question of whether man-made intelligences have a soul (a question which takes on added significance in view of the fact that we also witnessed incipient love affair between two low-level mechanicals as another side plot). Voltaire, held up as the perfect example of the rational man, comes prepared to argue that the soul does not exist; Joan of Arc, the epitome of religious thought and feeling, is selected as his most worthy opponent … but these two artificial intelligences complicate the whole process by falling in love with each other. So what have these two and their discussion to do with the world as it existed before Hari Sedon created the foundation, you might ask — and the actual answer is … probably nothing much, except that it gives Benford an opportunity to tell us many things about life in the world of the pre-Foundation empire as well as to suggest that some of the thoughts that came out of this debate were crucial to Seldon’s developing concept of psychohistory.
Similarly, there is a another extensive side plot in which Seldon and his rather remarkable wife take a “vacation” as a means of getting away from would-be assassins after a few attempts have been made on his life while waiting for the Galactic Council to approve the Emperor’s nomination of Hari as the new First Minister. This vacation includes a visit to the planet of Panucopia, where the local treat is a mental excursion that puts the intelligence of the tourists into the minds of primitive primates, which we can take to be the relatively undeveloped offspring of baboons. These excursions normally extend for just a few hours, but the long hand of the forces behind the assassination attempts reaches out even this far, and Hari and his wife find their mental selves locked into the bodies of two of these pan creatures, with no way to get back to their own bodies, which are locked away in the visitor center. Again, some of the disparagers have questioned what this side plot has to do with the story — and, again, probably very little, although Benford has Hari subsequently attributing his perfection of the psychohistory formula to some of the elements what he learned while living as a pan. In addition, Hari’s attitude toward life and the First Ministership clearly undergo a change because of this experience.
To me, these and other subplots do not seem a distraction at all. It is part of the grand, sweeping view of life in the Galactic Empire of 25 million inhabited planets, spread out in a disk like expansion from the forgotten home planet of Earth, now lost in the mists of time and legend. It is an inherent impossibility to summarize all that humanity, but Bedford does so by focusing in on a few key characters with the empire around them merely constituting a backdrop. All authors do this, of course, and in my humble opinion Bedford does it very well. When I pick up a novel that supposedly takes place 10,000 or so years in my future, I expect to find certain things very different, but I also expect to find a reasoned portrayal of how humanity fits into that different life, and this novel does that very well, indeed. The novel entertained me, amused me (which is not at all the same thing), and informed me — what more would we want from a novel?
It has been something more than 50 years, I think, since I read the Asimov’s first trilogy, and I have to admit that most of its details are more than fuzzy in my mind, which is another reason why I intend to go seek it out and read it again. I do not recall, for instance, that Hari was married to a robot — in this case, a rabbit who is charged with the particular task of protecting Hari so that he can develop his psychohistory theory. I also do not recall that R. Daneel Olivaw, one of Asimov’s greatest robot creations, was involved in that original trilogy. Whether old or new, however, I find these things portrayed in an interesting manner, and I found the novel increasingly interesting and tenacious as I went through it.
December 12, 2022
There were times when I thought I would give this 1 star and there were times I thought I would give it 5. It was all over the place and I was hoping that the writing team for this trilogy would have explored what happened after Asimov's Foundation Series instead of trying to fill in gaps I was not curious about, oh well.
August 18, 2016
The Seldon sections are pretty decent, but the entire Joan/Voltaire thing is unreadable drivel - my enjoyment of the book increased significantly around 75% in, after I just started skipping all the pieces about them, and I only wish I did this starting with page 1.
December 19, 2010
I really failed to get into this book. I understand that Benford wasn't trying to duplicate Asimov's style. It's just that as a work in this series it didn't grab me or add into the arc of the story. The entire aspect of the sims of Voltaire and Joan of Arc was not to my taste. The portrayal of Seldon and Daneel did not live up to the other books in the series even with a large gift of creative room for the author on the part of the reader.
Maybe the other "extar books" will be better.
Maybe the other "extar books" will be better.
July 17, 2008
The original series was so much better. I don't know what I don't like about this one: lack of action? or is it the things that the author introduces into this series: like computers, the Mesh, simulations, the theory of psychohistory... meh. don't know if I should keep on with the next books in this trilogy.
June 30, 2020
I found this to be a really hard slog, with thoroughly turgid writing at times. Lots of science for the hard sci-fi fans (AI, existentialism, astrophysics) and yet I felt the story became lost in the technical details at the expense of exploring the human condition. Benford admit that he took on this project with reservations, and furthermore that he did not try to emulate Asimov's writing style, and I respect him for that, but also commiserate with those fans who were hoping for more Asimov. I think this is a sincere homage to Isaac and I respect the sincerity of Benford's effort, but ultimately I did not enjoy this as much as I had hoped.
July 30, 2011
Terrible continuation of the Foundation series. What was the point of this book? I'm still wondering months later. There are so many boring side discussions that have no relevance that I found myself skimming towards the end. The plot never really develops, and although I liked the ending, it left me wondering why Hari didn't just make it happen 400 pages earlier. Thoroughly unenjoyable, even to a big Foundation fan. I hear that the next two (Chaos and Triumph) are good though.
October 13, 2016
La saga decae a un punto que no le hubiese deseado jamás ni a mi peor enemigo. Fundación no merecía esto. Y no por Benford, que escribe muy bien, simplemente no es Asimov. Nadie salvo su creador debería tocar una obra. Menos un clásico.
April 30, 2025
Foundation's Fear is the first installment of the second Foundation trilogy written by well-known science fiction authors Greg Benford, Greg Bear, and David Brin. Benford wrote this novel in 1997. The Asimov estate approved this endeavor, and the authors' goal was to fill in some holes of and add details to the original series. Foundation's Fear is set during the events which took place in Asimov's Forward the Foundation novel.
Foundation is right up there with Dune as one of the best science fiction series ever. Asimov's last book was Forward the Foundation which was published in 1993, just after the author died in 1992. I've had this new trilogy of books on my bookshelf for years and thought I'd better get going reading them. I've wanted to return to this universe since the Apple TV series came out. I much prefer Asimov's version to Apple's and don't plan to continue with the TV series.
Asimov's Foundaton books were never over 500 pages. Benford's chunky novel checks in at 608 pages! It didn't take me long to realize that Benford went overboard on this assignment and was I disappointed with some of his additions to this universe, a few of which were NOT consistent with Asimov's Foundation novels set before AND after the events in Benford's novel took place. Why would he do this?
The plot of Foundation's Fear is primarily based on Emperor Cleon I's attempt to appoint the reluctant Hari Seldon as the First Minister of the Galactic Empire. Good stuff. I really enjoyed spending time with Hari, Dors Venabili, and Daneel Olivaw again but Benford felt the need to devote huge chunks of this novel to a bloated subplot featuring digital sims of Joan of Arc and Voltaire of all people. I love Voltaire (especially Candide) but what his he doing 50,000 years in the future on a distant planet in a time when nobody remembers Earth? The explanation offered was a stretch. I eventually skimmed the Joan and Voltaire parts, which I felt were boring and unnecessary. Other irritating inclusions by Benford were some powerful aliens that played a important role towards the end of his novel (never mentioned by Asimov- there were NO aliens in his universe!), numerous every-day "dumb" robots on planet Trantor which Asimov never included in any of his books, and drawn out AI experiences Hari and Dors took part in, experienced inside of chimpanzee bodies. There was a point to this but I found it weak and the whole thing unnecessary.
If Benford would have deleted the Joan and Voltaire nonsense and the chimp AI adventures this book might've been a half-way decent Foundation novel. Instead it was a slog for me.
I'm hoping the second installment, Bear's Foundation and Chaos, is better. It will be fun to read new-to-me Foundation adventures if they are done right.
Two stars, as it was barely just OK in my opinion.
Foundation is right up there with Dune as one of the best science fiction series ever. Asimov's last book was Forward the Foundation which was published in 1993, just after the author died in 1992. I've had this new trilogy of books on my bookshelf for years and thought I'd better get going reading them. I've wanted to return to this universe since the Apple TV series came out. I much prefer Asimov's version to Apple's and don't plan to continue with the TV series.
Asimov's Foundaton books were never over 500 pages. Benford's chunky novel checks in at 608 pages! It didn't take me long to realize that Benford went overboard on this assignment and was I disappointed with some of his additions to this universe, a few of which were NOT consistent with Asimov's Foundation novels set before AND after the events in Benford's novel took place. Why would he do this?
The plot of Foundation's Fear is primarily based on Emperor Cleon I's attempt to appoint the reluctant Hari Seldon as the First Minister of the Galactic Empire. Good stuff. I really enjoyed spending time with Hari, Dors Venabili, and Daneel Olivaw again but Benford felt the need to devote huge chunks of this novel to a bloated subplot featuring digital sims of Joan of Arc and Voltaire of all people. I love Voltaire (especially Candide) but what his he doing 50,000 years in the future on a distant planet in a time when nobody remembers Earth? The explanation offered was a stretch. I eventually skimmed the Joan and Voltaire parts, which I felt were boring and unnecessary. Other irritating inclusions by Benford were some powerful aliens that played a important role towards the end of his novel (never mentioned by Asimov- there were NO aliens in his universe!), numerous every-day "dumb" robots on planet Trantor which Asimov never included in any of his books, and drawn out AI experiences Hari and Dors took part in, experienced inside of chimpanzee bodies. There was a point to this but I found it weak and the whole thing unnecessary.
If Benford would have deleted the Joan and Voltaire nonsense and the chimp AI adventures this book might've been a half-way decent Foundation novel. Instead it was a slog for me.
I'm hoping the second installment, Bear's Foundation and Chaos, is better. It will be fun to read new-to-me Foundation adventures if they are done right.
Two stars, as it was barely just OK in my opinion.
March 24, 2022
One of the worst books I have ever read. And totally unnecessary to understanding the Foundation storyline. Avoid this book at all costs. It stinks.
July 5, 2016
I was re-reading this book, as part of re-reading all of the Robot, Empire, and Foundation books in in-universe chronological order and this is the first time I felt like just stopping where I was. I hemmed and hawed about whether to include these non-Asimov books in the re-read, and I kind of wish I had decided against it, but I recall thinking more positively of the other books in its series, so... We'll see.
Mostly the problem with this book is the Joan of Arc and Voltaire sims. Endless streams of near-gibberish, as if someone had recorded everything said at a Renaissance Fair and run it through a randomizer, drag on and on for many pages. By halfway through I just started skipping nearly everything involving them and I don't feel at all like I missed out. The alternative was to just stop.
The rest of the book is mostly ok, except where Benford feels the need to 'correct' something he feels Asimov did wrong (gravitic elevators, hyperspace travel, etc.) or to use Seldon as a mouthpiece for his political and philosophical views, but it's not nearly enough to rescue this book from being an incredibly pretentious entry in what is otherwise a mostly very practical, straightforward series of books.
Ugh.
Mostly the problem with this book is the Joan of Arc and Voltaire sims. Endless streams of near-gibberish, as if someone had recorded everything said at a Renaissance Fair and run it through a randomizer, drag on and on for many pages. By halfway through I just started skipping nearly everything involving them and I don't feel at all like I missed out. The alternative was to just stop.
The rest of the book is mostly ok, except where Benford feels the need to 'correct' something he feels Asimov did wrong (gravitic elevators, hyperspace travel, etc.) or to use Seldon as a mouthpiece for his political and philosophical views, but it's not nearly enough to rescue this book from being an incredibly pretentious entry in what is otherwise a mostly very practical, straightforward series of books.
Ugh.
August 4, 2023
I've read 27 pages of this so far and I'm annoyed. For a man claiming to be a scientist Benford mis represents "evolution" early on as a cause rather than an effect of change; common enough so no biggy But where does he get off with this word "Mathist". Whilst I can accept that new words appear, the lack of continuity is disconcerting. Having re-read "Prelude to F" and "Forward the F", where Seldon et al use "mathematician", never the ugly Mathist, to find that appear between the narratives of those books this word emerges only to disappear. I find "MATHIST" an ugly little word. Looking at the other reviews, I'll give this 20 more pages and maybe burn it. I wan to try the others in the new trilogy so might persist. I could do without the little sex romp with Dors too. It does not add to the story and takes the book off style.
PS I could also have done without the love scenes. Nothing wrong with love scenes, but the appearance here took the book off the track of the originals.
Benford seems desperate to be different - which is EXACTLY what the task was NOT to do. If you want to write a sequel to a different author's work, then at least respect those other books.
I do not get any further.
I hate Benford now.
PS I could also have done without the love scenes. Nothing wrong with love scenes, but the appearance here took the book off the track of the originals.
Benford seems desperate to be different - which is EXACTLY what the task was NOT to do. If you want to write a sequel to a different author's work, then at least respect those other books.
I do not get any further.
I hate Benford now.
April 12, 2017
So this book is not badly written but after reading the whole trilogy I am disappointed. The original series seemed to be about humans and the societies they built with some help from a few robots. This series takes all of the choices away and makes the robots everything. From having Seldon being one of a set of genetically engineered people to see who would be able to provide what Daneel needed to Daneel having formed the entire empire and designed how Trantor was built out. It is ridiculous and makes humans into some stupid sub-species that really can't function. It ruins the Foundation story. Now I will be working hard to remove any information from this series from my mind so I can just remember Asimov's work unchanged.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
November 22, 2018
For me, this book was to Asimov's Foundation what the J. J. Abrams reboots are to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. And I found the Hari Seldon depicted here unrecognizable. (I feel bad because I am sure that this was a passion project for the three authors involved in this trilogy. I have enjoyed short fiction by all three of them. But Asimov's Foundation series is close to my heart and this just didn't work for m.e)
April 23, 2018
Had to finish after more-less third of it, because it was so boring...
Author is introducing new things that do not fit to existing universe.
Writing style is chaotic (although ideas may be interesting) and filled with technical language, that feels not justified by the plot.
Author is introducing new things that do not fit to existing universe.
Writing style is chaotic (although ideas may be interesting) and filled with technical language, that feels not justified by the plot.
May 17, 2020
OPINIA ARCHIWALNA (30.07.2010)
Jako, że nie jestem zwolennikiem wszelkiej maści prequeli i sequeli znanych i lubianych cykli czy kultowych książek a już w ogóle nie lubię, kiedy za pisanie kontynuacji biorą się autorzy inni niż pomysłodawcy i twórcy oryginalnego dzieła, do "Zagrożenia Fundacji" Gregory'ego Benforda podchodziłem z dużym dystansem i nieufnością. Do tego doszło rozczarowanie oryginalnym zakończeniem cyklu "Fundacja" pióra samego Asimova. Ujmę to tak - po przeczytaniu "Fundacji i Ziemi" upadł w moich oczach pewien mit o doskonałości tego pisarza i moje ogólne dobre wrażenie o Asimovie rozwiało się w pył...
Jednak tym razem chciałbym napisać kilka słów o początku nowej trylogii pisanej przez trzech różnych znanych pisarzy nurtu hard science-fiction - Gregorego Benforda, Grega Beara, oraz Davida Brina. Jak pisze Benford w Posłowiu do "Zagrożenia Fundacji" wszyscy trzej chcieli rzucić nieco światła na teorię psychohistorii, strukturę i sposób funkcjonowania Imperium Galaktycznego, mechanizmów politycznych i prądów społecznych, lekko tylko nakreślonych w oryginalnym cyklu oraz na to kim był sam Hari Seldon, jako człowiek - co przeżywał, myślał i czuł, dźwigając na barkach ciężar odpowiedzialności za przyszłość miliardów albo i więcej ludzkich istnień.
Ponadto wraz z postępem nauki w naszej rzeczywistości pojawiły się nowe płaszczyzny do eksploracji dla autorów fantastyki naukowej, takie jak wirtualne rzeczywistości, symulacje i globalna sieć. Możliwość wykorzystania tych elementów w kontekście "Fundacji" dawało twórcom trylogii epigonów, że tak pozwolę sobie ją nazwać, szerokie pole do popisu.
Czy taki melanż się Benfordowi udał?
Myślę, że odbiór "Zagrożenia Fundacji" zależy od punktu widzenia. A właściwie od tego, czego oczekujemy od literatury science-fiction.
Przede wszystkim trzeba zaznaczyć, że jest to lektura trudna, wymagająca od czytelnika skupienia i uwagi, ale nie tylko. Według mnie idealną percepcję tej powieści może mieć tylko i wyłącznie czytelnik "światły" (od razu zaznaczam, że ja się za takiego nie uważam) a nawet pokusiłbym się o stwierdzenie, że pisana ona była nie dla zwykłych szarych zjadaczy chleba, ale - uwaga! - dla matematyków lub fizyków z pobocznymi (to jest przynajmniej w stopniu akademickim) zainteresowaniami takimi jak politologia i historia filozofii.
Jądrem tej powieści zdają się być ciągnące się w nieskończoność dysputy dwóch symów (od 'symulacji') - przywołanych z zamierzchłych czasów osobowości Woltera i Joanny D'Arc, z których coś z całą pewnością musi wynikać, ale jak mi Bóg miły nie zrozumiałem co. Pewnie jestem za głupi, po prostu. Symy zostały przywołane w jakimś celu - początkowo wydaje się, że mają przeprowadzić między sobą debatę, z której coś konkretnego musi wyniknąć - ale ja za cholerę nie zrozumiałem, co... Potem symy wydostają się spod kontroli i zamieszkują w fundacyjnym odpowiedniku naszego Internetu - zwanym Meshem. I tam przebywając toczą ze sobą spory i debatują - niestety, nie zrozumiałem o czym (a jeśli złapałem jakiś sens tego wszystkiego, to był on na tyle ulotny, że już nie pamiętam).
Sam pomysł wplecenia elementów cyberpunku do "Zagrożenia Fundacji" spodobał mi się bardzo i początkowo byłem temu przychylny (mimo mojego uwielbienia od bardziej ortodoksyjnego science-fiction). Jednak później, kiedy tylko pojawiał się wątek Woltera, Joanny i Meshu szlag mnie dosłownie trafiał i naprawdę musiałem się przymuszać do dalszego czytania. Co gorsza wątek ten przez 3/4 książki zdaje się nie mieć żadnego związku z osią fabuły i jest naprawdę bolesnym antraktem dla czytelnika.
O wiele ciekawszy jest świat intryg imperialnych i polityki, choć i tam autora ponosi i momentami pisze, jakby pisał sam dla siebie i tylko on rozumiał o co mu chodzi.
Najciekawszy, aczkolwiek też nie mający według mnie związku z osią fabuły, jest wątek życia Hariego wśród pansów (szympansów).
I skoro już dwa razy napomknąłem o tak zwanej osi fabuły to teraz niespodzianka: "Zagrożenie Fundacji" nie ma tzw. osi fabuły! Książka zdaje się być zlepkiem kilku słabo powiązanych ze sobą motywów, z których niektóre w ogóle nie pasują do ogólnego obrazu a inne mimo, że pasują to są tak rozbudowane i przekombinowane, że czytelnik traci przyjemność z obcowania z powieścią. Przez cały czas, jaki spędziłem z "Zagrożeniem Fundacji" zastanawiałem się (ale w bardzo negatywnym sensie), o co tak właściwie chodzi, do czego to wszystko zmierza i jaką rolę kto odgrywa .
Podsumowując: "Zagrożenie Fundacji" leży na odległym biegunie w stosunku do cyklu Asimova. Jeśli twórca Fundacji prostotą i klarownością w prowadzeniu interesującej fabuły potrafił zaintrygować i w końcu zdobyć czytelnika, o tyle Benford ucieka wręcz od akcji, w ogóle nie próbuje chyba nawet zainteresować czytającego, ale prowadzi swój przekombinowany wykład przeplatając go kwiecistymi i bogatymi w głębokie metafory dialogami, przyprawiającymi o zawrót głowy (albo bardziej o mdłości).
W tym "pojedynku" zdecydowanie wygrywa Asimov. Niestety, mimo iż początkowo liczyłem, że "Zagrożenie..." Benforda okaże się przynajmniej dobre, o tyle po przeczytaniu całości stwierdzam, że bardzo mnie ta książka zmęczyła i zniechęciła do sięgnięcia po kolejne dwa tomy Brina i Beara.
Jakkolwiek pewnie i tak je przeczytam - oby były "lepsze" niż pierwszy (ostatecznie to inni autorzy a co za tym idzie inny styl). Boję się jednak jednego - w "Posłowiu" do "Zagrożenia Fundacji" Benford pisze, że na samym początku ustalili między sobą pewne nadrzędne idee i pomysły, które będą łączyć wszystkie trzy tomy w jedną całość. Hm?...
Jako, że nie jestem zwolennikiem wszelkiej maści prequeli i sequeli znanych i lubianych cykli czy kultowych książek a już w ogóle nie lubię, kiedy za pisanie kontynuacji biorą się autorzy inni niż pomysłodawcy i twórcy oryginalnego dzieła, do "Zagrożenia Fundacji" Gregory'ego Benforda podchodziłem z dużym dystansem i nieufnością. Do tego doszło rozczarowanie oryginalnym zakończeniem cyklu "Fundacja" pióra samego Asimova. Ujmę to tak - po przeczytaniu "Fundacji i Ziemi" upadł w moich oczach pewien mit o doskonałości tego pisarza i moje ogólne dobre wrażenie o Asimovie rozwiało się w pył...
Jednak tym razem chciałbym napisać kilka słów o początku nowej trylogii pisanej przez trzech różnych znanych pisarzy nurtu hard science-fiction - Gregorego Benforda, Grega Beara, oraz Davida Brina. Jak pisze Benford w Posłowiu do "Zagrożenia Fundacji" wszyscy trzej chcieli rzucić nieco światła na teorię psychohistorii, strukturę i sposób funkcjonowania Imperium Galaktycznego, mechanizmów politycznych i prądów społecznych, lekko tylko nakreślonych w oryginalnym cyklu oraz na to kim był sam Hari Seldon, jako człowiek - co przeżywał, myślał i czuł, dźwigając na barkach ciężar odpowiedzialności za przyszłość miliardów albo i więcej ludzkich istnień.
Ponadto wraz z postępem nauki w naszej rzeczywistości pojawiły się nowe płaszczyzny do eksploracji dla autorów fantastyki naukowej, takie jak wirtualne rzeczywistości, symulacje i globalna sieć. Możliwość wykorzystania tych elementów w kontekście "Fundacji" dawało twórcom trylogii epigonów, że tak pozwolę sobie ją nazwać, szerokie pole do popisu.
Czy taki melanż się Benfordowi udał?
Myślę, że odbiór "Zagrożenia Fundacji" zależy od punktu widzenia. A właściwie od tego, czego oczekujemy od literatury science-fiction.
Przede wszystkim trzeba zaznaczyć, że jest to lektura trudna, wymagająca od czytelnika skupienia i uwagi, ale nie tylko. Według mnie idealną percepcję tej powieści może mieć tylko i wyłącznie czytelnik "światły" (od razu zaznaczam, że ja się za takiego nie uważam) a nawet pokusiłbym się o stwierdzenie, że pisana ona była nie dla zwykłych szarych zjadaczy chleba, ale - uwaga! - dla matematyków lub fizyków z pobocznymi (to jest przynajmniej w stopniu akademickim) zainteresowaniami takimi jak politologia i historia filozofii.
Jądrem tej powieści zdają się być ciągnące się w nieskończoność dysputy dwóch symów (od 'symulacji') - przywołanych z zamierzchłych czasów osobowości Woltera i Joanny D'Arc, z których coś z całą pewnością musi wynikać, ale jak mi Bóg miły nie zrozumiałem co. Pewnie jestem za głupi, po prostu. Symy zostały przywołane w jakimś celu - początkowo wydaje się, że mają przeprowadzić między sobą debatę, z której coś konkretnego musi wyniknąć - ale ja za cholerę nie zrozumiałem, co... Potem symy wydostają się spod kontroli i zamieszkują w fundacyjnym odpowiedniku naszego Internetu - zwanym Meshem. I tam przebywając toczą ze sobą spory i debatują - niestety, nie zrozumiałem o czym (a jeśli złapałem jakiś sens tego wszystkiego, to był on na tyle ulotny, że już nie pamiętam).
Sam pomysł wplecenia elementów cyberpunku do "Zagrożenia Fundacji" spodobał mi się bardzo i początkowo byłem temu przychylny (mimo mojego uwielbienia od bardziej ortodoksyjnego science-fiction). Jednak później, kiedy tylko pojawiał się wątek Woltera, Joanny i Meshu szlag mnie dosłownie trafiał i naprawdę musiałem się przymuszać do dalszego czytania. Co gorsza wątek ten przez 3/4 książki zdaje się nie mieć żadnego związku z osią fabuły i jest naprawdę bolesnym antraktem dla czytelnika.
O wiele ciekawszy jest świat intryg imperialnych i polityki, choć i tam autora ponosi i momentami pisze, jakby pisał sam dla siebie i tylko on rozumiał o co mu chodzi.
Najciekawszy, aczkolwiek też nie mający według mnie związku z osią fabuły, jest wątek życia Hariego wśród pansów (szympansów).
I skoro już dwa razy napomknąłem o tak zwanej osi fabuły to teraz niespodzianka: "Zagrożenie Fundacji" nie ma tzw. osi fabuły! Książka zdaje się być zlepkiem kilku słabo powiązanych ze sobą motywów, z których niektóre w ogóle nie pasują do ogólnego obrazu a inne mimo, że pasują to są tak rozbudowane i przekombinowane, że czytelnik traci przyjemność z obcowania z powieścią. Przez cały czas, jaki spędziłem z "Zagrożeniem Fundacji" zastanawiałem się (ale w bardzo negatywnym sensie), o co tak właściwie chodzi, do czego to wszystko zmierza i jaką rolę kto odgrywa .
Podsumowując: "Zagrożenie Fundacji" leży na odległym biegunie w stosunku do cyklu Asimova. Jeśli twórca Fundacji prostotą i klarownością w prowadzeniu interesującej fabuły potrafił zaintrygować i w końcu zdobyć czytelnika, o tyle Benford ucieka wręcz od akcji, w ogóle nie próbuje chyba nawet zainteresować czytającego, ale prowadzi swój przekombinowany wykład przeplatając go kwiecistymi i bogatymi w głębokie metafory dialogami, przyprawiającymi o zawrót głowy (albo bardziej o mdłości).
W tym "pojedynku" zdecydowanie wygrywa Asimov. Niestety, mimo iż początkowo liczyłem, że "Zagrożenie..." Benforda okaże się przynajmniej dobre, o tyle po przeczytaniu całości stwierdzam, że bardzo mnie ta książka zmęczyła i zniechęciła do sięgnięcia po kolejne dwa tomy Brina i Beara.
Jakkolwiek pewnie i tak je przeczytam - oby były "lepsze" niż pierwszy (ostatecznie to inni autorzy a co za tym idzie inny styl). Boję się jednak jednego - w "Posłowiu" do "Zagrożenia Fundacji" Benford pisze, że na samym początku ustalili między sobą pewne nadrzędne idee i pomysły, które będą łączyć wszystkie trzy tomy w jedną całość. Hm?...
January 4, 2010
I've never ready any Greg Benford, so I didn't know what to expect. I found that Greg Benford does not write like Asimov. I also found that that doesn't matter.
If you're a fan of Asimov's Foundation series, as I have been since I first read it in high school, you will enjoy this book. It tells the story of how Hari Seldon came to be First Minister of the Empire. There is a lot of interaction between Hari and Dors, which I enjoyed. Bear writes with a playfulness that works well with the story. A good read.
If you're a fan of Asimov's Foundation series, as I have been since I first read it in high school, you will enjoy this book. It tells the story of how Hari Seldon came to be First Minister of the Empire. There is a lot of interaction between Hari and Dors, which I enjoyed. Bear writes with a playfulness that works well with the story. A good read.
September 29, 2017
Just having Foundation in the title can send chills down my spine in anticipation. Unfortunately, Benford seems constrained when writing in Asimov's universe. His strengths are when he moves away from the Trantor created universe. His weaknesses are trying to work with The Empire. Sometimes I enjoy Benford's hard science -- but in a Foundation novel? It just doesn't work, and isn't comfortable to read. Thank goodness the reviews for the next 2 prequels are much stronger -- its the only thing motivating me to continue this series...
January 14, 2024
I enjoyed all of Empire and Robot stories that Asimov wrote over many years. When I found Foundations Fear, I had high hopes but did not like it.
For years, my memory of how bad this book caused me to not continue the series. I finally decided to give Foundation and Chaos a chance. I'm glad I did. If you've read the Asimov stories, skip this book and start with Foundation and Chaos.
For years, my memory of how bad this book caused me to not continue the series. I finally decided to give Foundation and Chaos a chance. I'm glad I did. If you've read the Asimov stories, skip this book and start with Foundation and Chaos.
September 25, 2024
This don't fit in Foundation universe at all. Author uses tech that didn't exist in Asimov universe. Plot and tech in story can only work if you have never read Asimov's story.
Most disappointing read ever.
Most disappointing read ever.
November 28, 2020
ENGLISH
I had to decrease my rating after checking a little detail about which this book made me uncertain. What the heck is wrong with Benford? I can almost understand (but not approve of) that he felt the need to bring Asimov's universe up to date, technologically-wise. But why have the character of Dors perform self-maintenance under Hari's eyes, when Asimov clearly stated that Hari is not aware of Dors' true nature (albeit he clearly suspects) until she "dies" in "Prelude To Foundation"? And didn't Dors always went to great lengths to deny her robotic nature? What was wrong with this aspect of Asimov's work?
ITALIAN
Del tradimento della mitologia Asimoviana che imperversa in questo romanzo si parla già abbondantemente in rete. L'autore ha spiegato le proprie intenzioni nella postfazione, e le sue idee non sono certo da buttare, ma il risultato lascia a desiderare per la pretenziosità delle ambizioni, la grevità della narrazione ipertrofica, la dispersività delle digressioni interminabili, la scopiazzatura di Star Trek e l'incapacità di sviluppare e approfondire gli elementi narrativi principali, ai quali viene riservata una sbrigativa soluzione nell'ultimo quarto del romanzo, come per toglierli di mezzo a seguito di un ripensamento.
Si vuole modernizzare l'universo di Asimov, come il buon dottore stesso fece nei suoi romanzi successivi, per adattarlo agli sviluppi tecnologici e sociali della nostra epoca e per rendere il futuro della Fondazione più futuribile?
Va bene, ma allora perchè far parlare Hari Seldon della "messa della domenica", o mandarlo in cucina a friggere manzo e cipolle perchè è un cibo malsano ma che lo conforta? In che modo questi dettagli tolgono al ciclo originale quell'atmosfera inevitabile di vetustà tecnosociale?
E perch raccontare per pagine e pagine un ciberspazio che tra ventimila anni sembra uguale a quello dell'usuratissima fantascienza virtuale collocata in un contesto contemporaneo?
Tornando alle idee che l'autore inietta nel romanzo, la faccenda dei "tiktok" (proto-robot ) che prendono piede nel tardo Impero è accettabile (ma inutile), come anche la scoperta dell'esistenza di alieni digitali nell'internet di Trantor, superstiti di civiltà precedenti, come anche il discorso dei wormhole: il problema è che l'autore caccia dentro a forza queste trovate senza esplorarle e giustificarle in maniera adeguata, e le rimuove alla fine del romanzo con alcune soluzioni che sono sì logiche, ma allestite in fretta e furia, per chiudere queste sottotrame senza alcun approfondimento. Non solo si stravolge l'universo di Asimov, ma lo si fa in maniera acciabattata e senza impegno, ricorrendo a una postfazione per giustificare questi cambiamenti invece che argomentarli nella storia. In un romanzo di una tale mole, è una scelta inaccettabile, specialmente se si considera che una quantità enorme di pagine è buttata via per raccontare le soporifere avventure di due simulazioni digitali perse nel ciberspazio, quelle di Voltaire e Giovanna d'Arco. Ma davvero un lettore di Asimov è interessato, in un romanzo della Fondazione, a decine e decine di pagine in cui si blatera di fede cristiana, guerra tra Francia e Inghilterra, Parigi, i bistrot, la Fiera del Rinascimento e altra roba pseudostorica (sì, perchè i due personaggi sono "simulazioni" e i loro presunti ricordi sono stati creati da programmatori vissuti migliaia di anni dopo di loro)?
Davvero al lettore interessano interminabili e confusionari sproloqui di tecnochiacchiere alla Star Trek, per dare credibilità tecnologica a queste simulazioni e al loro ciberspazio in cui continuano a muoversi in banali e triti scenari determinati dalla loro mente, e quindi del tutto falsi? Davvero al lettore di Asimov interessano le avventure di due ologrammi scappati dal Ponte Ologrammi dell'Enterprise di Star Trek, e per di più intenti a filosofeggiare continuamente sull'Io e sull'anima, scambiandosi opinioni vecchie di trentamila anni?
Come ha potuto il supervisore di questo romanzo lasciar passare pagine e pagine di questa noia logorroica e inconcludente, senza accorgersi che esse rubavano spazio ad altri passaggi narrativi rimasti inspiegati? Dobbiamo concluderne che questi passaggi (marginali, ma comunque inspiegabili) sono il residuo di altri tagli, e che questo polpettone digitale era ancora più lungo?
Sicuramente, il suddetto spazio dedicato ai battibecchi virtuali degli inesistenti Voltaire e Giovanna d'Arco avrebbe potuto essere meglio impiegato circostanziando la grottesca idea della spedizione spaziale dei robot, guidata da Daneel, che sterminò le civiltà aliene che popolavano la galassia prima degli umani, per garantire la sicurezza di Coloni e Spaziali che su stavano espandendo. Davvero dobbiamo credere che la tecnologia robotica umana, su una misera astronve, fu sufficiente per annientare precedenti civiltà interestellari, per di più eliminandone ogni prova fisica dell'esistenza, sia in termini tecnologici che biologici, fino a garantire che tutta la galassia non ospitasse altro che pianeti popolati al massimo da alghe? Davvero dobbiamo credere che un po' di robot hanno sterilizzato miliardi di mondi e cancellato ogni traccia del proprio intervento e dell'evoluzione stessa su tutti quei mondi?
Davvero gli umani non hanno mai sospettato niente, nonostante la presenza degli inspiegabile della rete di trasporto dei Wormhole, altra aggiunta inutile fatta dall'autore per pestare ulteriormente i piedi all'universo di Asimov con un macchinoso concetto tanto implausibile quanto i balzi nell'iperspazio che egli vuole accantonare? Quanto sono scemi, questi umani?
Certamente la trovata degli antichi alieni nascosti nel nucleo galattico si adatta ai timori espressi da Daneel in "Fondazione e Terra", ma questa buona intenzione non compensa neanche lontanamente l'asssurdità dell'esecuzione e del modo in cui viene infilata a forza nella narrativa dell'Impero Galattico.
Invece della confusione degli interminabili discorsi sul sesso degli angeli, altro spazio avrebbe dovuto essere concesso alla connessione tra gli alieni digitali e i TikTok, come anche al "Nuovo Rinascimento" sul pianeta Sark, di cui non abbiamo visto niente (eccetto le frasi con cui Seldon lo descrive). Sembra quasi che l'autore, troppo impegnato a pavoneggiarsi e a impressionare il lettore con un lessico ricercato, la logorrea e gli effetti speciali, si sia dimenticato delle trame che aveva iniziato, e si sia deciso a risolverle in fretta e furia quando ha esaurito lo spazio: il risultato è approssimativo, e spinge a chiedersi perchè Seldon non abbia risolto tutto così sin dall'inizio, risparmiandoci alcune centinaia di pagine di speculazioni cervellotiche e confusionarie.
Come hanno suggerito altri lettori, il romanzo può essere letto e fruito con più piacere se si saltano tutte le parti relative a Voltaire e Giovanna d'Arco nel ciberspazio (fra l'altro descritto come se fosse tecnologicamente fermo alla nostra epoca, alla faccia della "modernizzazione" dell'universo di Asimov).
Come già detto, le idee e gli scenari del romanzo sono interessanti, ma entrambi sono stati inseriti a forza (e con la grazia di un elefante) in un universo che non li contemplava, rivelando la superficialità di un autore che sembra più interessato a compiacere la propria arroganza e infilare ovunque le proprie ossessioni narrative, invece che a celebrare l'universo di Asimov.
Per fortuna, l'autore stesso si rimangia praticamente tutto nel precipitoso e raffazzonato finale, e in appendice al volume (almeno nella versione inglese) si può leggere il primo capitolo del seguito, "Fondazione e Caos", che è stato scritto da un altro autore e si dimostra già molto più interessante e in sintonia con i concetti originali di Asimov.
I had to decrease my rating after checking a little detail about which this book made me uncertain. What the heck is wrong with Benford? I can almost understand (but not approve of) that he felt the need to bring Asimov's universe up to date, technologically-wise. But why have the character of Dors perform self-maintenance under Hari's eyes, when Asimov clearly stated that Hari is not aware of Dors' true nature (albeit he clearly suspects) until she "dies" in "Prelude To Foundation"? And didn't Dors always went to great lengths to deny her robotic nature? What was wrong with this aspect of Asimov's work?
ITALIAN
Del tradimento della mitologia Asimoviana che imperversa in questo romanzo si parla già abbondantemente in rete. L'autore ha spiegato le proprie intenzioni nella postfazione, e le sue idee non sono certo da buttare, ma il risultato lascia a desiderare per la pretenziosità delle ambizioni, la grevità della narrazione ipertrofica, la dispersività delle digressioni interminabili, la scopiazzatura di Star Trek e l'incapacità di sviluppare e approfondire gli elementi narrativi principali, ai quali viene riservata una sbrigativa soluzione nell'ultimo quarto del romanzo, come per toglierli di mezzo a seguito di un ripensamento.
Si vuole modernizzare l'universo di Asimov, come il buon dottore stesso fece nei suoi romanzi successivi, per adattarlo agli sviluppi tecnologici e sociali della nostra epoca e per rendere il futuro della Fondazione più futuribile?
Va bene, ma allora perchè far parlare Hari Seldon della "messa della domenica", o mandarlo in cucina a friggere manzo e cipolle perchè è un cibo malsano ma che lo conforta? In che modo questi dettagli tolgono al ciclo originale quell'atmosfera inevitabile di vetustà tecnosociale?
E perch raccontare per pagine e pagine un ciberspazio che tra ventimila anni sembra uguale a quello dell'usuratissima fantascienza virtuale collocata in un contesto contemporaneo?
Tornando alle idee che l'autore inietta nel romanzo, la faccenda dei "tiktok" (proto-robot ) che prendono piede nel tardo Impero è accettabile (ma inutile), come anche la scoperta dell'esistenza di alieni digitali nell'internet di Trantor, superstiti di civiltà precedenti, come anche il discorso dei wormhole: il problema è che l'autore caccia dentro a forza queste trovate senza esplorarle e giustificarle in maniera adeguata, e le rimuove alla fine del romanzo con alcune soluzioni che sono sì logiche, ma allestite in fretta e furia, per chiudere queste sottotrame senza alcun approfondimento. Non solo si stravolge l'universo di Asimov, ma lo si fa in maniera acciabattata e senza impegno, ricorrendo a una postfazione per giustificare questi cambiamenti invece che argomentarli nella storia. In un romanzo di una tale mole, è una scelta inaccettabile, specialmente se si considera che una quantità enorme di pagine è buttata via per raccontare le soporifere avventure di due simulazioni digitali perse nel ciberspazio, quelle di Voltaire e Giovanna d'Arco. Ma davvero un lettore di Asimov è interessato, in un romanzo della Fondazione, a decine e decine di pagine in cui si blatera di fede cristiana, guerra tra Francia e Inghilterra, Parigi, i bistrot, la Fiera del Rinascimento e altra roba pseudostorica (sì, perchè i due personaggi sono "simulazioni" e i loro presunti ricordi sono stati creati da programmatori vissuti migliaia di anni dopo di loro)?
Davvero al lettore interessano interminabili e confusionari sproloqui di tecnochiacchiere alla Star Trek, per dare credibilità tecnologica a queste simulazioni e al loro ciberspazio in cui continuano a muoversi in banali e triti scenari determinati dalla loro mente, e quindi del tutto falsi? Davvero al lettore di Asimov interessano le avventure di due ologrammi scappati dal Ponte Ologrammi dell'Enterprise di Star Trek, e per di più intenti a filosofeggiare continuamente sull'Io e sull'anima, scambiandosi opinioni vecchie di trentamila anni?
Come ha potuto il supervisore di questo romanzo lasciar passare pagine e pagine di questa noia logorroica e inconcludente, senza accorgersi che esse rubavano spazio ad altri passaggi narrativi rimasti inspiegati? Dobbiamo concluderne che questi passaggi (marginali, ma comunque inspiegabili) sono il residuo di altri tagli, e che questo polpettone digitale era ancora più lungo?
Sicuramente, il suddetto spazio dedicato ai battibecchi virtuali degli inesistenti Voltaire e Giovanna d'Arco avrebbe potuto essere meglio impiegato circostanziando la grottesca idea della spedizione spaziale dei robot, guidata da Daneel, che sterminò le civiltà aliene che popolavano la galassia prima degli umani, per garantire la sicurezza di Coloni e Spaziali che su stavano espandendo. Davvero dobbiamo credere che la tecnologia robotica umana, su una misera astronve, fu sufficiente per annientare precedenti civiltà interestellari, per di più eliminandone ogni prova fisica dell'esistenza, sia in termini tecnologici che biologici, fino a garantire che tutta la galassia non ospitasse altro che pianeti popolati al massimo da alghe? Davvero dobbiamo credere che un po' di robot hanno sterilizzato miliardi di mondi e cancellato ogni traccia del proprio intervento e dell'evoluzione stessa su tutti quei mondi?
Davvero gli umani non hanno mai sospettato niente, nonostante la presenza degli inspiegabile della rete di trasporto dei Wormhole, altra aggiunta inutile fatta dall'autore per pestare ulteriormente i piedi all'universo di Asimov con un macchinoso concetto tanto implausibile quanto i balzi nell'iperspazio che egli vuole accantonare? Quanto sono scemi, questi umani?
Certamente la trovata degli antichi alieni nascosti nel nucleo galattico si adatta ai timori espressi da Daneel in "Fondazione e Terra", ma questa buona intenzione non compensa neanche lontanamente l'asssurdità dell'esecuzione e del modo in cui viene infilata a forza nella narrativa dell'Impero Galattico.
Invece della confusione degli interminabili discorsi sul sesso degli angeli, altro spazio avrebbe dovuto essere concesso alla connessione tra gli alieni digitali e i TikTok, come anche al "Nuovo Rinascimento" sul pianeta Sark, di cui non abbiamo visto niente (eccetto le frasi con cui Seldon lo descrive). Sembra quasi che l'autore, troppo impegnato a pavoneggiarsi e a impressionare il lettore con un lessico ricercato, la logorrea e gli effetti speciali, si sia dimenticato delle trame che aveva iniziato, e si sia deciso a risolverle in fretta e furia quando ha esaurito lo spazio: il risultato è approssimativo, e spinge a chiedersi perchè Seldon non abbia risolto tutto così sin dall'inizio, risparmiandoci alcune centinaia di pagine di speculazioni cervellotiche e confusionarie.
Come hanno suggerito altri lettori, il romanzo può essere letto e fruito con più piacere se si saltano tutte le parti relative a Voltaire e Giovanna d'Arco nel ciberspazio (fra l'altro descritto come se fosse tecnologicamente fermo alla nostra epoca, alla faccia della "modernizzazione" dell'universo di Asimov).
Come già detto, le idee e gli scenari del romanzo sono interessanti, ma entrambi sono stati inseriti a forza (e con la grazia di un elefante) in un universo che non li contemplava, rivelando la superficialità di un autore che sembra più interessato a compiacere la propria arroganza e infilare ovunque le proprie ossessioni narrative, invece che a celebrare l'universo di Asimov.
Per fortuna, l'autore stesso si rimangia praticamente tutto nel precipitoso e raffazzonato finale, e in appendice al volume (almeno nella versione inglese) si può leggere il primo capitolo del seguito, "Fondazione e Caos", che è stato scritto da un altro autore e si dimostra già molto più interessante e in sintonia con i concetti originali di Asimov.
February 27, 2021
I don't have anything nice to say about Foundation's Fear.
Reading this book felt like a chore and it wasn't enjoyable at all. Most of it is nonsense. At least Asimov kept the nonsense at bay as not to bore the reader, not so much for Benford who thrives in nonsense. It's page after page of nonsense. It's too much, it's maddening. Also, the presence of words such as "mathist," "tiktok," and "sim" annoy the heck out of me.
Prelude to Foundation reads like an upgraded prequel the same way SW: The Phantom Menace (1999) feels compared to SW: A New Hope (1977). Then there's a second part to this upgraded prequel in Forward the Foundation, and then there's Foundation's Fear that feels like an upgraded mid-prequel sandwiched between Prelude and Forward. But why? Oh, gawd, why?
Trantor feels even more modern than presented in Prelude. There are 17 wormholes around Trantor. There are single-task bots to help humans. There's even a couple of simulations of dead people created by dead people who didn't know the first couple of dead people or spoke the dead language to begin with. SciFi, baby! What am I even reading? The Afterword doesn't do it any favours, it's the same style with incoherent paragraphs. What am I even reading? Look, I understand Benford is not Asimov and his writing style is different and we can't expect an emulation of the latter but at the same time, we don't need an upgraded universe.
Here's the quick and dirty summary of the book:
Part 1: Unnecessary.
Part 2: Made me want to throw the book as far away as possible. Since I bought the ebook version, it would have been a very expensive mistake.
Part 3: Unnecessary.
Part 4: Unnecessary.
Part 5: Especially unnecessary.
Part 6: Unnecessary.
Part 7: Unnecessary.
Part 8: The story is finally shaping up into something I don't dislike too much.
Overall, I hate it with a passion. Maybe after I read the other books in the trilogy I'll revisit this review but I don't feel like I want to continue.
Reading this book felt like a chore and it wasn't enjoyable at all. Most of it is nonsense. At least Asimov kept the nonsense at bay as not to bore the reader, not so much for Benford who thrives in nonsense. It's page after page of nonsense. It's too much, it's maddening. Also, the presence of words such as "mathist," "tiktok," and "sim" annoy the heck out of me.
Prelude to Foundation reads like an upgraded prequel the same way SW: The Phantom Menace (1999) feels compared to SW: A New Hope (1977). Then there's a second part to this upgraded prequel in Forward the Foundation, and then there's Foundation's Fear that feels like an upgraded mid-prequel sandwiched between Prelude and Forward. But why? Oh, gawd, why?
Trantor feels even more modern than presented in Prelude. There are 17 wormholes around Trantor. There are single-task bots to help humans. There's even a couple of simulations of dead people created by dead people who didn't know the first couple of dead people or spoke the dead language to begin with. SciFi, baby! What am I even reading? The Afterword doesn't do it any favours, it's the same style with incoherent paragraphs. What am I even reading? Look, I understand Benford is not Asimov and his writing style is different and we can't expect an emulation of the latter but at the same time, we don't need an upgraded universe.
Here's the quick and dirty summary of the book:
Part 1: Unnecessary.
Part 2: Made me want to throw the book as far away as possible. Since I bought the ebook version, it would have been a very expensive mistake.
Part 3: Unnecessary.
Part 4: Unnecessary.
Part 5: Especially unnecessary.
Part 6: Unnecessary.
Part 7: Unnecessary.
Part 8: The story is finally shaping up into something I don't dislike too much.
Overall, I hate it with a passion. Maybe after I read the other books in the trilogy I'll revisit this review but I don't feel like I want to continue.
January 21, 2022
Foundation’s Fear by Gregory Benford is book one of the Second Foundation Trilogy based on the works of Isaac Asimov. These 3 volumes were written by 3 different authors with permission from Asimov’s estate. They cover the time in Hari Seldon’s life (the major driving force in Asimov’s original trilogy) as he was coming up with his science of psychohistory which would allow him to model mankind’s future and that of the galaxy spanning empire.
I’d had this trilogy for awhile now and with Apple’s Foundation series posting last year and wanting to get to these books I read the original Foundation trilogy to come up to speed. I should note that Asimov years later added to his original trilogy with more books and even incorporated his famous collection of Robot stories into the same universe. It was an amazing accomplishment that created an epic.
Focusing just on this book I found it a disappointing start to a new tale of one of Asimov’s most famous works. Dr Benford initially creates a nice setting built on the previous work. But without spoiling too much, mid-way through the book he introduces 2 major subplots that just take the story in the wrong direction. By themselves they might have made some interesting stories in his own original work, but did not fit well here at all. They actually ruined the story for me, disrupting the flow beyond repair.
I will be reading the next two books this year and while I expect some elements to roll forwards, I hope the next two authors lasso this story and regain some focus that better fit it into the larger universe that they are all visiting in.
Foundation and Chaos by Greg Bear
Foundation’s Triumph by David Brin
I’d had this trilogy for awhile now and with Apple’s Foundation series posting last year and wanting to get to these books I read the original Foundation trilogy to come up to speed. I should note that Asimov years later added to his original trilogy with more books and even incorporated his famous collection of Robot stories into the same universe. It was an amazing accomplishment that created an epic.
Focusing just on this book I found it a disappointing start to a new tale of one of Asimov’s most famous works. Dr Benford initially creates a nice setting built on the previous work. But without spoiling too much, mid-way through the book he introduces 2 major subplots that just take the story in the wrong direction. By themselves they might have made some interesting stories in his own original work, but did not fit well here at all. They actually ruined the story for me, disrupting the flow beyond repair.
I will be reading the next two books this year and while I expect some elements to roll forwards, I hope the next two authors lasso this story and regain some focus that better fit it into the larger universe that they are all visiting in.
Foundation and Chaos by Greg Bear
Foundation’s Triumph by David Brin
Displaying 1 - 30 of 216 reviews