When Sorrows Come

October Daye #15

by Seanan McGuire

Toby's getting married! Now in hardcover, the fifteenth novel of the Hugo-nominated, New York Times-bestselling October Daye urban fantasy series.

It's hard to be a hero. There's always something needing October "Toby" Daye's attention, and her own desires tend to fall by the wayside in favor of solving the Kingdom's problems. That includes the desire to marry her long-time suitor and current fiancé, Tybalt, San Francisco's King of Cats. She doesn't mean to keep delaying the wedding, it just sort of...happens. And that's why her closest friends have taken the choice out of her hands, ambushing her with a court wedding at the High Court in Toronto. Once the High King gets involved, there's not much even Toby can do to delay things...

...except for getting involved in stopping a plot to overthrow the High Throne itself, destabilizing the Westlands entirely, and keeping her from getting married through nothing more than the sheer volume of chaos it would cause. Can Toby save the Westlands and make it to her own wedding on time? Or is she going to have to choose one over the other?

Includes an all-new bonus novella!

Genres: Urban Fantasy, Fantasy, Fae, Fiction, Romance, Paranormal, Magic

470 pages, ebook

First published September 14, 2021

About the author

Hi! I'm Seanan McGuire, author of the Toby Daye series (Rosemary and Rue, A Local Habitation, An Artificial Night, Late Eclipses), as well as a lot of other things. I'm also Mira Grant (www.miragrant.com), author of Feed and Deadline.

Born and raised in Northern California, I fear weather and am remarkably laid-back about rattlesnakes. I watch too many horror movies, read too many comic books, and share my house with two monsters in feline form, Lilly and Alice (Siamese and Maine Coon).

I do not check this inbox. Please don't send me messages through Goodreads; they won't be answered. I don't want to have to delete this account. :(

Reviews

[Sheyla ✎ · Rating 5 out of 5]

Toby is getting married!!

So if you are a true fan, you know that Toby will finally marry Tybalt. We also know that she will be stabbed at least once before she gets married. Or by the end of the ceremony, her wedding gown will have blood all over it. Why? Because October Daye brings chaos wherever she goes! (Thinking about a crossover between my favorite UF's heroines, Mercy (Pat Briggs) and Toby could be a disaster together or maybe it would be a great team!!)

Toby's wedding is happening at High Court. Toby had never wanted to be involved in the details of her wedding. She has let her friend from childhood Stacy, her Fetch, May, Tybalt, and Kerry take control. It is not that she doesn't want to marry Tybalt. For her, the whole idea of a big wedding is not what she wants but she understands the importance of following protocol.

Of course, once they get to Toronto, immediately someone is murdered and Toby as the hero of the realm needs to put a stop to whatever plan is cooking. By her side, she will have the support of Quentin and Tybalt. This demonstrated how mature she has become. Toby has realized she doesn't need to be alone anymore. She can trust people close to her and she can't stop barging into situations blindly where she always gets hurt. (It only took a bunch of books but who is complaining?)

I love When Sorrows Come. It had me smiling and laughing. It also made me turn the pages fast enough to find out who was behind the attacks. I love these characters, and seeing Toby and Tybalt happy made my day!

I'm not sure if we only get two more books or if Seanan McGuire has decided to write more books in this series. I just hope that I can find out more about Stacy and Quentin's future, Raj becoming the King of Cats, Guillian sharing time with her mother, Simon becoming a true father to Toby, Luna and Sylvester apologizing for the wrongs against Toby, May getting married, The Luidaeg getting free from the geas bindings and so many more questions I have.

Cliffhanger: No

5/5 Fangs


Short Story at the end of the book:

And With Reveling

The short story happens just after the ceremony. It's the wedding reception. It should really be the epilogue. You can't find it in the audiobook but it is on kindle ebook.

Toby and Tybalt get seven formal blessings as newlyweds which I'm guessing in Faerie, is a big deal. Hopefully, all those will protect them from what is yet to come.

My favorite part is how Tybalt deals with Sylvester. As many of you know, he has not treated Toby right.

Sylvester transferred his gaze to Tybalt. “You’ve never liked me,” he said.

“This is true. To be fair, you were once the man who stood between me and the woman I loved, and then became the man who treated the girl I found fascinating without half the respect that she deserved.”

MrsLeif's Two Fangs About It | Facebook | Twitter | Instagram

[Dianne · Rating 2 out of 5]

Review is below the mini-rant!


I feel that you don't need to drink an entire gallon of milk to know it is spoiled. I had to drink more spoiled milk with this book to get to the good stuff than I am comfortable with. The author does NOT need to keep padding the book with back-story and minutiae.



Apparently, I am the only person in this world who has trouble with how boring, bloated, angsty, and selfish the first part of this book is. If I hear Toby whining one more time about what is going on with the wedding without her, I will be throwing my Kindle...well into something soft. It's not the Kindle's fault that this book is starting so horribly that I am looking for anything else to do other than read this book. But, hey, maybe I'll scrub the toilets!?! It's not my Kindles fault that Toby is getting everything she wanted with this wedding, and yet she still has the audacity to moan and groan and pity herself.

Of course, we remain with the author's typical tropes/cliches; Toby and the crew will be getting nice and bloody. But, she will save the near unsavable and come back from being nearly dead.

I know that there are two more (at least) books coming out after this one, and I am at the point that I am not sure I will be reading these. The angst in these later books is enough to drive me crazy.

Well, I did force myself to get past the first 1/3 of the book, and it finally got interesting enough to keep going. This was not a spectacular book, but it kept my attention well enough to finish it.

So, they are married. Toby saved a Kingdom, and Oberon is still--- well, I can't say because it is possibly a spoiler for future books.


But this is what I really feel at this point in the series, the main characters (Toby) really haven't grown; they just seem to pay lip service to growth.

[Mallory · Rating 5 out of 5]

This is one of my absolute favorite series of all time. I waited impatiently for a year for this next volume (longer if you consider this is Toby and Tybalt’s wedding!) and devoured it within 4 hours of it being downloaded onto my kindle. I stayed up far too late and was left with zero regrets. While I did think the summarizing was a little overboard in this one beyond that it was everything I love about this series. The mystery was interesting and did not take away from the wedding which let’s be honest is what I really wanted. Toby remains one of my all time favorite characters and I liked the emotional growth she showed in this book. Here’s to another year of waiting for the next one!

And the first re-read of this one is complete! I didn’t stay up all night this time but reading slower did not hinder my enjoyment of it. It was nice to pause in this quiet, happy moment (only the ending, nothing with Toby is “quiet”) especially now that I know what is coming next.

[Steven · Rating 5 out of 5]

Thanks to Netgalley and Berkley for providing me with an advanced copy in exchange for an honest review!

Well, we finally made it to the altar. Or at least, the book about the altar. No spoilers on if we actually get there or not. ;)

Toby and her motley crew (at least, a big chunk of them... someone has to hold down the fort at home!) make their way to Toronto for "the big day!" which obviously means that she's walking into trouble and stabbystabs and bloody clothes.

We've got intrigue. We've got danger. We've got elfshot and blood and poison and disguises and royalty and deception and meeting new kinds of Fae and pomp and ceremony and SO MANY CHARACTERS in the same book!

And most importantly.... THE LUIDAEG - one of my favorite characters of all time, ever, EVER.

You definitely should NOT start with this one. This is 15 books and countless short stories worth of history and plot and character development leading up to a wedding. Please don't do yourself a disservice and read this without the depth of all of that backing it up. :)

HIGHLY RECOMMENDED.

(Also includes a fun novella, With Reveling, that takes place immediately after the final scene of the book!)

[h o l l i s · Rating 2 out of 5]

Yep, it's me. I'm still reading this (in my opinion) lacklustre series.

Overall I'm rather underwhelmed about this instalment which makes a nice departure from previous instalments which have often annoyed me. Toby is up to her usual cavalier shenanigans, her narration is full of lighthearted dramatics, she's delightfully (not) hypocritical about others who crack jokes in tense situations right after she's done the same, she spews meaningful backstory to strangers for no reason except exposition as well as redundantly trying to convince us things are meaningful..

.. oh but she finally got married. To Tybalt. Eventually.

Before it can happen, though, we have coups and assassinations and all sorts of the usual-in-this-world hijinks. And, again, as usual, the High King of Everything (whatever) felt pretty incompetent and, at times, needed fae-specific things explained to him. Him. The High King. Was it to make Toby look better or what? Not sure. I didn't understand this. But it certainly didn't stop him, or the Queen, from throwing the occasional jabs and blame her way.. even though she hadn't even wanted to be there and everything would've been worse had she not been there to save the day and be the hero. I know I complain about this series, and this character, all the time but there are times that the bigger injustice is how other characters treat this character I don't even like. Not always. But sometimes. In this case it was milder than it's been in the past but still a recurring and perplexing phenomenon.

I did kind of love (this wasn't a surprise, we've known since book one) that the High Kingdom or whatever is situated in Toronto but this time we were actually there, visiting, and there were some Canadian and maple flavoured jokes sprinkled around. That gave me the occasional tickle. And I clung to said amusement like Jack clung to the door.

Of note, it was rather disheartening to see a few typos sprinkled in amongst this traditionally published and edited novel. Almost as disheartening as having to sift through passages where someone says something and Toby reiterates it mostly the same way.. just because she's the MC. Filler, got to love it.

Thankfully my massive binge has dissipated enough from my mind that I was okay riding this book out and got through it pretty quickly. Maybe because I felt removed from it all, though unfortunately had no issue remembering all the little details -- helped by all the rehashing spread through the story -- but overall this wasn't as frustrating as I've come to expect. That said, as always, I'm still hoping the end of this series is nigh (there's three more already announced but unclear how long the series is anticipated to last).

---

This review can also be found at A Take From Two Cities.

[Wanda Pedersen · Rating 4 out of 5]

I can't believe that this is the fifteenth book in the October Daye series and that I'm still enjoying it so much. I love this Fae world that Seanan McGuire has created and I can't get enough of it.

This is the volume where Toby and Tybalt are supposed to tie the knot, but those of us who have read this far know that disaster follows our favourite Knight wherever she goes. So going into things, you are waiting for the other shoe to drop, for the crisis that will delay or cancel the nuptials. Toby has turned the wedding planning to her chosen family and the groom, so every step of the process is a reveal to October as well as the reader.

Sure enough, within hours of arriving at the High Court (in Toronto, Yay!), Toby realizes that there is an attempted coup underway, with the goal of assassinating Quentin's father. Quentin, her squire, himself is under a spell of the Sea Witch which disguises him as a Banshee, shielding him from the worst of the plotting.

Can Toby manage to make it to the altar? Will her wedding dress be drenched in blood? In other words, will she be her usual self? If you have read the previous volumes, you may be skeptical of the outcome—grab a copy and enjoy it!

How much longer can McGuire keep churning out these adventures? My fingers are crossed for many more. I hope she isn't bored with her creations. I need to know what's going on with Oberon, if Toby can salvage her relationship with her daughter Gillian, if Amandine is going to leave her daughter alone, and whether Sylvester will ever pull his head out of his butt.

Sometime soon, I must start a rereading cycle of these books. I'll need to buy copies of the last 2 or 3, but I know I want to own them eventually in any case. A project for 2022 perhaps?

[Adam · Rating 3 out of 5]

Should have been a novella.

I've been on the October Daye journey for a long time now. It's a wonderful series, and Seanan uses the backdrop of Faerie to push some more "radical" ideas of what gender and relationships can be. She does it in an effortless, beautiful way. But oh man was this just a bloated novella in need of editing.

Once we get to the final chapter, it's wonderfully done. But we take SO long to get there. There are just pages and pages of Toby thinking about her friends, her past, her future. SO much exposition. And SO many typos.

I don't know if she's gotten so big that her editor has no control over what she produces or if the book was just rushed, or if she was contractually obligated to write a novel and had to fill space...buy one of those is hopefully true.

There are so few plot points and the "climax" of the book is in the MIDDLE of the final chapter. I...I really don't get it. I still love the world, there characters, the story. But if you're expecting a legitimate story, I'd at least skip to halfway through.

[Bradley · Rating 5 out of 5]

So you know your life is dark and depressing but then comes along Seanan McGuire with a new October Daye book and EVERYTHING suddenly gets sunshine and joy.

Why? Because we finally see whether Toby can get married without getting blood all over her dress!

*spoiler* She doesn't. *spoiler*

Fortunately, that's not really a spoiler. Merely a tease. And not only do we GET THE DEED, but we also get the deed, indeed, in CANADA.

So, if you like insurrection, elf-shots, stabbings, more insurrection, and a wonderful stop-and-start wedding ceremony with your favorite UF characters, AND you just can't get enough of the Luidaeg terrifying... um... EVERYONE... then you've come to the right place.

So delightful.

Of course, if you're reading this and wondering if it should be the right place to jump into the series... THINK AGAIN. Get your ass back to book 1 and catch up. Sheesh. Some people. *Yeah. I'm looking at you.*

[Robin (Bridge Four) · Rating 4 out of 5]

It seems like Toby and Tybalt have been trying to get married forever and it is finally going to happen in this book, probably. No just kidding they definitely make it to getting hitched but in true Toby fashion everything goes wrong, someone or someones end up dead and Toby gets stabbed possibly more than once. Let the good times role.

“Are you okay?” he asked, in a small voice.
“I don’t know,” I said. “Apparently, my entire family has been conspiring to abduct me to Canada because I can’t be trusted to know the date of my own damn wedding. So I’m feeling a little left out and a little disrespected and a lot like I need to go lie down in my bed or stand in a hot shower until I stop wanting to stab you all.”
“We don’t heal the way you do,” said Dean.
“Hence the restraint,” I said, through gritted teeth.”

How is the best way to get Toby to her own weeding? Sneakily. In her hero squad’s defense, she just said they could plan it and just tell when and where to be. So everyone is headed to Canada, to Quinton’s parents for the wedding. Quinton it seems might be feeling a little bit of teenage resentment towards his parents for the future Kingdom he is supposed to take over leaving Toby his first love and all his friends behind. Good thing he is in an exceptional disguise that no one will know it is him at Toby’s wedding.

Toby’s wedding guest include none other than the Sea Witch, Oberon, Toby’s newly recognized father, her complete hero squad and her longtime childhood changling friend. I do love seeing the legendary Sea Witch in her teenage girl guise and so many making large mistakes in front of her. With all of those people in attendance you know that something big is about to go wrong and it does when someone tries to kill the King of the Winterlands and Toby is there to make sure that doesn’t happen. But man the potential overthrow of the government is delaying the wedding…again and no one is more upset about it than Toby.

“I wasn’t looking to make myself angry. I was trying to triangulate how angry I should be. There’s a difference. Honest, there’s a difference.”

In order to get her wedding going she will need to figure who is trying to overthrow Quinton’s dad and put a stop to it.

Again we have a greatly fun story that involves Toby acting irreverently in front of Monarchs, pushing boundaries and figuring out how to save some of the creatures of faery from itself. I love seeing how close Toby has become to the group of teenagers in her care and how living in the chaos has just become normal in her life. It is always entertaining and keeps the reader guessing what shoe is going to drop next.

[Jason · Rating 2 out of 5]

The whole first third of the book is a combination of extended wikipedia summary of past books, and wedding prep.
The novella is the wedding party.
And the actual fantasy storyline feels like another retread that doesn't change the overarching plot at all.

I expect the next Incryptid and Wayward Children installments will at least bring something new to the table, and can't help but wonder if this series could be helped a bit if October was not always the center. There are certainly still characters I like who are always around, but barely ever get meaningful character moments.

[Fate's Lady · Rating 2 out of 5]

The fact that every character who cares about Toby was hanging a lampshade on the inevitable violent conflict at her wedding doesn't actually make it any less boring or predictable that, oh, surprise! there's a coup attempt at her wedding. She foils it because she's oh-so-clever, blah blah, wedding happens, everyone acts surprised, Toby's blood-proof gown is played for laughs, and we're done. I find myself left kind of wondering why I'm still reading as these stories have gotten so repetitive.

[Rae Palmer · Rating 3 out of 5]

I've been thinking a lot about how to respond to this book, and what rating, if any, I can possibly give it. Ultimately, I guess I've decided to come straight down the center of the road because at the end of the day, I still love the world and characters that McGuire has crafted. That said, this installment was... lacking.

I don't expect everything about a series to stay the same, especially one that's been going on as long October Daye has. McGuire has given us a magical world (literally) filled with mystery and intrigue, and a fantastic found family that I would dare to say we all wish was our own. Unfortunately, this latest turn of the series is shocking in the worst way possible. I can usually overlook a few typos here and there, or one or two small inconsistencies in the plot, but When Sorrows Come is in severe need of another editing pass.

Not only are there multiple (I counted twenty, before I stopped bothering) instances of completely incomprehensible sentences which could have only come from someone rewriting a portion of the sentence and forgetting to reread it to make sure it still made sense, but characters have a tendency to reference previous events within the same book happening in a way that doesn't reflect the published reality (ie, a character hugs October once, and then a chapter later hugs October a second time but it references that hug as being 'their first in years,') the same explanations for plot points and previously established relationships are re-explained so many times it quickly becomes comical, you could make a drinking game by the amount of times someone 'blinks' in a response to an 'oh so quirky' statement that, by this point, aught to be stock standard for the series, and a growing tendency for characters deliver monologues of exposition during moments that are meant to be urgent.

That last point isn't exactly new, but discovers new heights when a character who is holding her dying husband pauses everything to make a grand speech about how much he truly means to her before she allows him to be treated. It's clearly meant to be emotional, but comes of as severely melodramatic.

In fact, a lot of the way the relationships are being handled, currently, are either melodramatic, or hand-wring-y enough to border on farce. Everything has become a morality play, with October needing to halt the plot every few paragraphs to harp at the reader about this or that social justice tidbit that feels less like her, and more like the author herself. Which, I must admit, is a difficult thing to write since I actually agree with these politics. In and of themselves, the points she makes are fine, but the way that they are handled or even introduced is heavy-handed at best, and completely contradictory at worst.

For instance, there's the Walther issue (the following is spoilers for previous books). I, like many other queer fans, was delighted when Walther was revealed to be trans. More inclusions is great, and Walther's plot was extremely well handled at the time. It was made clear that Walther's transformation (literal) was only a matter of concern to their family due to social pressures of his rank-by-birth, and once he abdicated his position, it seemed like no one should have any more reason to care; particularly as his mother was one of the people who'd offered to help him make the change before everything went to shit in his childhood.

Except that, ever since, it feels like Walther's status as a transman seemingly has to be brought up every single time he enters a scene. Someone has to misgender him, or imply that they might misgender him, and October has to deliver a lecture (usually aimed at the reader for some reason) about why that's not appropriate. In WSC, this takes the form of stating in one breath that Faerie has no issue with gender, and then stating that every single person from Walther's childhood still insists that he's a girl to the point that he refuses to deal with them anymore.

Why? How does that make sense? Do they care about gender, or do they not care about gender, or does this not actually matter at all except as a vehicle to deliver a moral message to the audience?

Worse, it doesn't just come up once in the book. This happens at least twice, and AGAIN in the short story at the end of the book.

Speaking of that short story, anyone who's waiting for the audio book is going to be disappointed because the "short story" is the actual ending of the book. I'm not sure who had the bright idea to chop it up in a way that means the audio version won't include it, but they were wrong. Just horrendously, gloriously wrong.

Except for all the ways they weren't, because the editing issues persist even here. The greatest example is Raj, who was said to be a bearer of one of the seven blessings characters needed to deliver to Toby as the short story's "plot." This point was brought up by Raj himself, and again by Stacy, and then suddenly dropped like a hot brick when the seventh blessing was given by a completely different character without Raj ever making another appearance.

Sorry as it is to say, the inconsistencies don't end here. The biggest issue that I had with the book itself, by far, is a major fuck-up in the way that Libraries operate. I'm not going to go too far into details, I'm just going to state: Several books in this series rely on the fact that Libraries are neutral grounds where no one is allowed to be attacked as a major, plot-hinging point of lore.

So guess what Toby gets to do without any consequences what so ever?

Yeah. Just... yeah. I'm just going to gloss over the fact that the villain of this story literally had multiple opportunities to screw October over completely and simply chose not to because.... Reasons? I guess? It's never addressed; not even lampshaded why he actually, literally helped her multiple times over the course of hunting him down.

At the end of the day, I feel like McGuire just wanted to write a wedding. (IMHO, that would have been fine.) I'm not going to speculate on her motivations past that, especially because I know that she loves her characters, and loves this series, and absolutely wants it to be the best that it can be. I don't want to shit on that. For whatever else is going on in her life, she's a fantastic author, who tries incredibly hard to do right by herself and those around her. I feel like that might sound a little condescending, and I'm sorry if it does, but I don't know how else to express the fact that I do appreciate her and all the hard work she puts into crafting these worlds, not to mention how emotionally taxing it has to be to put into the world like this.

I just wish that whomever was in charge of this had made the call to push publication back and spend a little more time on this installment. It's been a difficult year and a half for everyone involved, and a lot of series have been rescheduled due to that. October Daye/When Sorrows Come should have been among them.

[Katherine · Rating 3 out of 5]

How do I live without you until next fall?

[Melliane · Rating 5 out of 5]

4.5/5

Mon avis en Français

My English review

I am a fan of October Daye and I couldn’t wait to dive into this novel! How could I not be as we finally see the wedding between October and Tybalt! Oh yes, after all this time, this is it! It’s time!

October didn’t organize her wedding. No, no, she hasn’t. Tybalt, May, Stacy and the others have done everything for her. All she has to do is to be there when the day comes and that day has finally arrived! Forced to go to the Westlands where the High King is supposed to marry them, you can imagine that, as always, nothing will be easy! Besides, it seems that someone has decided that this is the right time to dethrone the king and October will soon have to juggle her wedding with a coup d’etat. Not an easy task! Even for her.

I had a great time with this novel. It was a real pleasure to be reunited with all the characters and to finally see the moment we have all been waiting for. I’m also curious to see what the sequel will have in store for us. There are at least two more volumes and I know October will find a way to get into trouble!

[Rebecca · Rating 1 out of 5]

Disappointing. I understand that there is a lot to remember after 14 books, but I did not need 60+ pages of review material. It also made no sense for the book to end with a novella which takes place MINUTES after the wedding. I would have been so mad if I purchased this book instead of borrowing it from the library. The quality wasn’t there.

Less rehashing past events & character histories, more writing the actual story, please.

[Aadhav]

Am I the only one a little scared she's going to kill of tybalt?

[Chrissy · Rating 5 out of 5]

I can't believe we finally made it to the wedding! I thought this day would never come! This was just what I expected and a lot of fun that had me snickering quite a few times, trying to hold in my laughter so as to not wake up the entire house. (I was reading this in the middle of the night, starting at midnight as soon as the ebook downloaded to my kindle). Lots of heartwarming moments, too. There were no big reveals/surprises in this one, though there was plenty of hinting at things I'm sure will be revealed/confirmed down the line (such as about the Brown family - we still don't know anything, but the little suspicious remarks about them keep piling up).

The novella in the back of the book didn't really feel so much like a novella this time, but more like another chapter - starting immediately after the final chapter ended and staying with Toby's POV.

This far in the series, there's a lot of recap. Toby always sticks in my mind so well, that it was a little too much recap for me sometimes. But I have other series where I would need this amount of recap a year after reading the previous book, so I get why it needs to be there, I guess.

[Marielle Authier · Rating 4 out of 5]

***½

[Bonnie · Rating 1 out of 5]

Well, fuck.

[☕️Kimberly (Caffeinated Reviewer) · Rating 5 out of 5]

Finally, the wedding we’ve been waiting for is about to take place or will it? Toby left all the planning, from the date to the arrangements, to Tybalt and friends. On the eve of their departure, she learns they will travel to the High Court for her wedding and everything is packed. It was so exciting!

When they arrive ahead of guests, things aren’t quite right and the tale that unfolds kept me listening into the wee hours. Someone or something is trying to overthrow the High Throne. Murder, imposters, and chaos await you.

Of course someone was murdered, of course people aren’t who they seem and who is trying to overthrow the High Court? Toby has no choice but to investigate. In typical McGuire fashion, I was kept guessing whether Toby would wed, let alone survive. Secrets are revealed. You’ll be annoyed by a guest who could intervene and doesn’t.

You’ll have to listen for yourself to see if Tybalt finally gets his bride. I loved this tale from beginning to end and have so much to say, but alas, spoilers. Just know that it was brilliant, terrifying and left me spent.

Mary Robinette Kowal’s narration was delightful. I love that I immediately know what character is speaking. She captures Toby and Tybalt wonderfully.

Perfect for fans of urban fantasy, slow-burning romance, found family and faerie. McGuire’s world-building is beyond impressive and she has endeared me to both the world and the characters. This review was originally posted at Caffeinated Reviewer

[Susana · Rating 2 out of 5]

Surprise, surprise, my up until now favorite series, has finally become a chore to read. -_-
This was a freaking mess. As usual (at least with the latest instalments), there's this insane amount of recapping that has become tiresome as hell. Especially for people who have been re-reading the whole series!
This is the fifteenth volume. If people want to know what they're getting into; read the first volumes!
As it is, it has started feeling as if we're reading a dictionary on the October Daye world.
I don't have patience for endless repetitions, so for most of the story I just wanted to be done with it.
Then there's Toby. Toby has started to get on my nerves. She's practically an immortal these days, so things like murdering attempts, loss of limbs and the famous elf shots, are nothing more than irritating gnat stings.
It has become boring. And repetitive.
Also her occasional glib of which I used to be a fan of, has now become a full time thing; making her sound like an obnoxious brat.
It's too much, especially when she's dealing with High King Sollys.
The story was convoluted at best. Apparently the High King is surrounded by incompetents, so Toby's has quite a few opportunities to act the Hero. Yay.
Even during her marriage ceremony. JFC
The Simon redeeming plot continues, much to my dislike. And the author even goes so far as Toby saying that she has more blood on her hands, than her "Father". *pulls hair*
That's a way of putting it, although I don't remember Toby torturing people... as Simon did. With Luna and Raysel, even Toby's and wasn't he responsible for Lily's death?
Honestly this whole forgiving road is too much, too soon.
And now Sylvester's is the "bad guy". This doesn't sit well with me.
So at this point I'm just done with this series.
As for the novella, HA, told from Toby's pov, it is just the follow up on Toby's and Tybalt's wedding.

[Taylor · Rating 2 out of 5]

4/10

October “Toby” Daye is finally getting married to Tybalt, the love of her life. For the wedding, she and a retinue of friends and family travel to Toronto, the fae seat of power in North America. But Toby realizes something is very wrong in the High Court. Shortly after her arrival, she foils an assassination attempt on High King Aethlin. Now Toby and her companions have to root out the instigator of a coup before it overthrows the monarchy and destabilizes the Westlands.

"Blundering into trouble isn’t my superpower, but it might as well be."

Review, content warnings, and series spoilers below.

Content warnings for the book: Depicted — Death, violence, self-harm.
Mentioned— Incest (kinda), genocide, mind control, abuse.

I’m sad to write this review, as I consider myself a fan of McGuire’s work. But this is the first October Daye book I’ve outright disliked. It’s got big problems, and highlights recent issues with the series that I can’t ignore anymore.

Maybe it’s wrong to be critical of When Sorrows Come, because it’s clearly meant to be a fanservice book. Toby and Tybalt, after much teasing, are finally getting married. It’s got the most snarky tone of the series. There’s lots of discussion about the inevitable drama and bloodshed that’s bound to complicate things. Toby and friends do what they do best: solving problems and getting stabbed in the process. As a whole, it’s a semi-comedic romp with characters you’re doubtlessly familiar with by now. But the whole time I was reading it, I couldn’t help but notice all the filler and think, for the third time in recent books, “Wow, this should have been a novella.”

Lower stakes adventures aren’t a bad thing; I’m not saying every entry needs to be an earth-shattering thrill ride. But in the latter half of the series, several books feel phoned in. Once Broken Faith (#10) and The Unkindest Tide (#13) have stock plots, throwaway villains, and conflicts that (seemingly) don’t impact the overarching story. I feel that both would have worked better as novellas, addressing the big Lore Stuff in each while avoiding the filler plots. Major developments aren’t necessarily tied to the main novels; just look at January’s resurrection. Unfortunately, When Sorrows Come fits into this category as well, featuring a generic assassination plot that feels tacked on at best. On its own, I probably wouldn’t care. But since it’s the third in a trend, and has additional problems, I’m apprehensive about where the series is headed.

I do have some positive things to say about When Sorrows Come. The snarky tone and self-aware quips are pretty funny. There’s a joke early on about “working for a queen” that actually made me laugh out loud. Many beloved characters show up, and while some cameos are expected, others are honestly surprising. As always, The Luidaeg is wonderful. I’m happy that Walther continues to be important, as it’s rare to see good trans rep in media. While there’s side character bloat, I generally like the recurring ones, so it’s not so bad. Though I wish they got more individual attention.

There’s a little character development with Quentin, exploring his complicated relationship with Aethlin and Maida. It makes sense that he’d be resentful toward his parents, since they literally abandoned him and cut off all social ties— even though we know mind control was to blame. So it’s nice to see that bit of extra depth. This also ties into “mother” vs “mom” and “father” vs “dad”, which is a running theme in the book. Aethlin himself fluctuates between the level-headed leader we’ve seen previously, an idiot for the sake of plot, and a complete asshole. But since this is the first book to really focus on him, I’ll chalk it up to “hidden depths” and move on.

I did like some worldbuilding stuff. The concept of New York City being literally poisonous to Faerie is interesting. There’s mention of the few who manage to live in what is basically the fae version of nuclear fallout; that’s a great premise if we ever explore it in the future. I also like encountering a Library again, since they haven’t been relevant for a while. The one in Maples is atmospheric and much different than the one in the Mists. It’s a shame that this book retcons a major detail about Libraries, rendering the conflict in Chimes At Midnight (#7) nonsensical.

When Sorrows Come genuinely gets good around Chapter 18. It was at this point, over 80% through the book, that it finally felt like the series I know and love. This is exactly why I think a novella would have worked better— because I had to trudge through hundreds of pages to get to the stuff that matters. This section features the lead-up to the wedding, the wedding itself (+ some series-appropriate complications), and finally the reception novella, “And With Reveling”. I liked the part where Toby has to pick one of three roads and discovers Simon is her escort to the wedding. While his appearance in When Sorrows Come is brief, his scene functions as a touching “how far we’ve come” found family thing. The bonus novella has minor problems, but I enjoyed it as a fluffy epilogue for the book.

But the negatives outweigh the positives for me. I know I’ve been throwing the word “filler” around a lot, but it’s egregious. The plot feels shoehorned in because the book “needed” a conflict; it has no effect on the conclusion, except for an incident during the wedding that could easily be reworked. When Sorrows Come is full of filler on a micro scale, too. One example: we spend a solid two and a half chapters (1) identifying that a room is booby trapped, and (2) getting stuck in the booby trapped room and trying to get out of it. Despite there being an obvious way out, which was demonstrated in a previous chapter. Or Toby will summarize— in detail--something we literally just read. Or there’s the excessive amount of recap. I’m not kidding when I say the first 60 pages consist of series recap dumps and barebones setup. If we’re at the point where we need dozens of pages to summarize the story, wouldn’t it make more sense to have a skippable “story so far” section? Or limit the exposition to relevant information? I hate skimming stuff, but as someone familiar with the series, I was tempted.

There’s emotional character moments I swear we get every single book now. Tybalt being upset that Toby put herself in danger followed by some touching make-up scene. Toby being sad that someday Quentin, who she considers her son, is going to leave her and become High King of the Westlands. Some lines about how the terrifying Luidaeg is somehow a merciful, even kind person despite her tragic backstory. I dunno, man. These were meaningful the first time I read them, but they get rehashed so often they’ve lost all impact. Other scenes feel melodramatic, like Tybalt giving a passionate speech to Maida about how Toby is the most amazing woman he knows and sacrifices so much to help the Divided Courts. All while Toby is just like, bleeding into a jar as a favor to the woman so she doesn’t die. Maybe that’s a big ask for a normal person, but Toby bounces back from so many horrific injuries each book that this over-the-top reaction to a blood donation borders on parody.

Many plot points rely on idiocy. No one thinks to use readily available Tuatha portal magic to escape the booby trapped room. Early on, someone dies from contact poison… which everyone promptly forgets is a thing until it becomes relevant again. Toby and Aethlin go to interrogate a shapeshifting prisoner which can transform into anyone it sees, but bring Tybalt, whose hands are deadly weapons. These aren’t the only examples. The royal guards are incompetent, but at least that gets an explanation— though it’s weird that the most powerful court in North America is paralyzed without Toby’s intervention.

Finally, When Sorrows Come has big editorial issues, exacerbating all its other problems. There are sentences that were clearly mid-edit, but never got completed, so you end up with something incomprehensible. Others are grammatically correct, but phrased in such a confusing way that I had to reread them several times. Sometimes known information is presented as a total mystery, or retconned, or stuff gets repeated verbatim. One of several continuity errors is Toby telling Tybalt, with heartfelt sincerity, that she didn’t run headlong into danger without him… a chapter after she did exactly that. It’s not presented as an intentional lie, and Toby isn’t a duplicitous character. It’s an error. Mistakes absolutely happen, but there are so many in this book that it feels like an early draft. I’m not sure if When Sorrows Come was rushed out the door, or the editor barely checked it, or what.

I’m fond of this series; my frustrations come from a place of passion. October Daye is a daunting 15 books long, and I feel like it’s running out of steam. Toby is now so powerful and beloved that nothing feels like a real threat. 90+% of the bad things that happen in this series can be traced to Eira or Amandine… so what conflicts we get are rarely surprising. There’s still a few plot threads (the missing Queens, whatever is going on with Stacy’s bloodline, maybe Riordan?), but are they enough to hang another 5? 10? books on? We have at least 2 more confirmed with no end in sight. I’m concerned about future quality with this series, which is sad, because I know McGuire is passionate about it. Maybe there’s a Winter Long-style shakeup waiting in the wings that will make me eat my words. I genuinely hope that’s the case; I want October Daye to be the best it can be. But it’s hard not to feel discouraged.

[Scratch · Rating 5 out of 5]

I do love this series. I find myself increasingly annoyed with the author personally, the more I learn about her. But I still love the series.

October Daye has had a long, bloody soap opera of adventures over the course of 15 books. (Not counting additional short stories.) Her relationship with Tybalt was originally antagonistic, so if one goes back to read the first book, there is not a lot of foreshadowing that they would end up married. Maybe hints at attraction and potential dating, but a full-blown wedding with a hundred guests seemed pretty unlikely at the time.

At the beginning of the series, Toby was a fairly weak changeling. ("Changeling" in this universe refers to human-fairy hybrids, even though the original concept in folklore referred more to a human child being replaced by something else, be it a fairy or an enchanted log.) She was just a private investigator with a human husband and a toddler, and she was no great shakes in the fairy realm, aside from having earned the title of "knight." Then, over the course of 15 books, Toby became more powerful and more important. In this latest installment, she is casually referred to as a "king-breaker" many times.

The "king-breaker" thing is actually pivotal to the plot.

Part of me does like to hear Toby talking about the different scents of magic. So that same aesthetic appreciation likes hearing about dress colors and elaborate cake design. Those sorts of descriptions are present, but it's perhaps not as prevalent as one would expect in a book about a wedding. Toby doesn't actually know the details about her wedding (as we are reminded frequently), so she doesn't know what her own wedding dress looks like, let alone the colors of the bridesmaids'.

Speaking of bridesmaids, have you ever wanted to hear more about Stacy? The core group of Toby's friends is here. May, the Fetch-turned-sister; Jazz, May's girlfriend, who never gets more than a few lines in each book; Quentin, the squire; Dean; Chelsea; Raj; etc. But Stacy? The supposed best friend from childhood? She makes more of an appearance here than she has in most of the previous books. And there are hints that we're going to find out that she has some deeper secret.

So, I'll say it. I want more Stacy. If for no other reason than because it's kind of weird for Toby to be so in love with May, whom she has only known for a few years, while her actual long-time best friend is still alive and well and only a phone call away.

There is a serious murder plot afoot, so do not think that this whole book is just about a wedding. About 26% into the book we learn about our first death, and that there is a plot to kill even more people. There are Dopplegangers involved. It's a thing. So if you're worried that this will just be a saccharine description of cake icing, you're in luck; there will be blood.

That being said, Seanan McGuire still felt the need to describe at the beginning of the book how the default orientation for fairies is "bisexual." This is a little odd and offensive, but I understand what's happening. Seanan McGuire herself is bisexual. And it's a good thing that she is trying to give queer representation in her books. However...

I, personally, am completely gay. I'm not going to tell bisexuals that they shouldn't exist or whatever. It's just that I personally am not bi. By that same token, there are also straight people in the world. I'm not trying to be biphobic. I just dislike when LGBTQ groups get together and try to talk as if everybody in the world should be bi as a default.

It's counter-productive to talk as if the entire fairy race is bisexual by choice. That is not how orientations work. I found out that I was gay at puberty, against my will. I did not choose to be gay. I was born this way. Now, I have enough pride that I am fully out of the closet and happily married to a man, with an adopted son. But it is an alarmingly wrong message for Seanan McGuire to use her platform to try to convince straight people reading her books that all the fairies in the world are just presumptively bisexual because they're so gosh darn open-minded.

Orientation is not about being open-minded. Open-mindedness might be good for overcoming homophobia. Straight allies should be open-minded and applaud same-sex weddings, and be friends and allies to LGBTQ people the world over. But I don't want straight people thinking that our agenda is to convince them to be open-minded to trying out some same-sex sex acts themselves. That is not the goal, or the "gay agenda," and it hurts our cause if straight people think that's what we're trying to convince them to do. It makes us sound like selfish whores.

Also, I don't want someone trying to convince me that I should try out dating women. It's not going to happen. But by making orientation sound like it's a matter of open-mindedness, she gives evangelical Christians ammo to argue that gay men should be more open-minded about dating women. This then leads down the precarious path to arguing for gay conversion therapy.

Seanan McGuire, just knock it off. You're hurting our messaging. Let some characters be fully gay, and some characters be fully straight. Yes, I'm aware that October appears to be fully straight. But the way you write about orientation is weird. You've been retroactively making male characters bisexual repeatedly over the course of this series, to the point that it seems like some sort of fetish on your part. Tybalt, Quentin, Simon, and Dianda's husband, have all definitely been retroactively made bisexual, despite originally having female partners. Even Raj has been suggested to be bisexual, given the way he explains that there were logical reasons why he didn't date Quentin, and not just mis-matching orientations.

I know that fairies are a different species. They're long-lived and have access to magic. But is it logical, or even wise, to claim that unlike humans, they all have a default orientation of bisexual?

Final point-- so many damn typos. Why? I think one was within the first 3 pages, and it was a random "x" inserted into the middle of a word. There were others. Some were more understandable, like a confused "then" for "than." But a random "x" in the middle of a word? That shows the lack of even spellcheck in Microsoft Word.

[Craig · Rating 4 out of 5]

This is a fun book, a special one for the fans as they used to say. It's the fifteenth book in the series, and October is finally going to get married. It's quite enjoyable to see her face a series a problems that she can't stab or punch and has to rely on her friends and family to solve, and she's not a very strong character through a lot of the mess. There's a fairly standard plot of a nefarious bad guy trying to usurp the crown and using her wedding as a distraction to mount his insurrection, but the real story is how she comes together with her friends and how they resolve (most of) the challenges. There are perhaps one or two too many happy Hallmark moments, but hey, it's a wedding. The bonus novella at the end is just a continuation of the story, showing what happens at the reception. Lots and lots of characters from the previous books appear, naturally, and it's a fun reunion. There is a bit of bloodshed and mayhem and detective work, of course, but the real point of it all is the wedding, which is delivered as promised. (Unlike far too many of the comic-book build-up rip-offs which don't get paid off but cheat the reader, but I digress... Batman.) Good tie up of previous dangling threads and good foreshadowing of things to come... new squire? Oberon's knife? Sign me up.

[Anna (Bobs Her Hair) · Rating 4 out of 5]

I was afraid there would be angst and strife between Toby and Tybalt in "When Sorry Comes." Nope. Of course, there's plenty of bad guys, blood, and wedding planning. Toby has built a unique family. It was rewarding to see all the good channeled toward a happy goal.

Even though I accidentally borrowed the library book as an epub, which had to be read on my smartphone for bedtime reading, there's no regrets. Toby was worth the tiny screen.

library eloan

[Christina · Rating 5 out of 5]

Actual Rating: 4.5

[flightofbirds · Rating 2 out of 5]

Well, this was deeply, profoundly annoying.

I really enjoyed the High Court and the minor characters (Aethlinn, Maida, and Nessa are all amazing, and I want to see more of their court) and the new fae introduced, as well as the fae wedding traditions, and I like some of the characters in Toby's posse, but I find Toby herself somewhere between tolerable and deeply grating.

A lot of it has to do with the wedding preparations. So Toby claims she wants to get married, but she keeps dragging her feet, and she lets her family and fiance arrange the wedding for her and complains at every step. This is fine, and it's called out that this is tied to her abandonment issues. Great, I'm glad this is recognized as a problem!

...But the problem is that this book is entirely averse to conflict and consequences.

You would think that her family would feel taken advantage of (especially since she doesn't really thank them in the book for arranging a whole political wedding), her fiance might start to feel abandoned, her aunt (who has a lot riding on this marriage politically) might be pissed off at her for not seeing the big picture... And at least the fiance and the aunt seem to feel that way, but it never rises to the level of an argument. Fiance is very Supportive Boyfriend about this and just even more eager to get married. Aunt has one conversation with Toby, and then she uses magic shenanigans to ensure the wedding happens -- which isn't really a consequence, because that's the whole premise of the book -- and Toby doesn't reflect on the conversation or change because of it.

The book is averse to conflict in other ways as well. Toby is openly rude in the name of being a hero (being a hero in this series means you get to go to other people's kingdoms and tell them you're doing things wrong), and this never bites her. You see, the good, sensible people understand that they should just go along with Toby, despite her tone -- even if they are royalty who might be expected to fell threatened! And Toby herself heals from all injuries, so she's never in any danger, and her enemies haven't leveled up or become any more clever. They aren't a threat to Toby, and they are explicitly called out in the narrative as not being a threat (except to the minor characters, who provide the source of the tension). At the same time, minor characters outside of Toby's circle are shown to be incompetent -- the world ends up feeling like a setpiece.

I see a lot of what this is going for, in a wish-fulfillment sense: the idea here is that family and friends accept each other, support each other, and are patient and understanding. (And trust me, the theme of Toby's found family will be hammered in over and over again, along with how special and unlike everyone else they all are, and the fact that Toby herself is the specialest of all.) It just doesn't make for engaging reading, especially as someone who feels that Toby is behaving badly and who wants Toby to be called out. Also, I just fundamentally do not agree that loving a protagonist means you have to put up with them and cater to them.

The wedding did feature some fascinating wedding rituals, though it dragged a bit , but it was also...profoundly bizarre. Toby literally has "how to get married" infodumped to her at her wedding. You would think someone would have explained this to her before? Especially for a political wedding with so much riding on it!

This series is still hooking me with its minor characters (who don't suffer from the specialness), the worldbuilding, and the central mystery, but everything else is somewhere between "watching paint dry" and "nails down a chalkboard". I can see how someone who already loves Toby and her relationships may love this, but I am not one of those people, and the power fantasy + wish fulfillment acceptance fantasy of this book leaves me cold. I love UF power fantasies, but I want to see characters facing actual challenges, both internal ones and external threats that they can't just power through. And I want to watch characters fight for what they love and risk for what they believe is right, to reach out with compassion even to those who don't have power, and to care about justice.

And holy shit I am not finding that in this series.

[Mackenzie (mackenziespocket) · Rating 4 out of 5]

probably 3 for actual content/story but +1 for how it makes me feel

[jacobi · Rating 5 out of 5]

overly indulgent in a way that only hardcore fans will enjoy or appreciate but fifteen books in who else is reading?

[Brittany · Rating 5 out of 5]

4.5 stars!
Loved it and the novella at the end was amazing. We finally get the wedding we have been waiting for. There are all kinds of shenanigans that happen and almost cause it to get postponed but somehow, someway there is a wedding!

"The world has thrown every obstacle it could think of in your path, and you've just gone over them all, haven't you? Because here we are, the least likely of families, and I can't say we're giving anything away or gaining anything today, because you both belong here already. Where we are is your home and has been for a long time. Do you understand how impossible that is? How ridiculous this all is? This can't have happened, and yet it did, and now we get to see what happens next.

Almost all the main players are present at least for a moment in this one which I enjoyed plus we got the chance to meet some new characters as well with the travel to Toronto and all that entails. It wasn't all happy though, there's assassination attempts as well as some real feelings that come out in the open that need to be worked through the best they can be.

"Grief is a weight that you can't put down, only transmute into other things, and once it lands on your shoulders, you have to wait for time's erosion to lift it off. We're all Atlas, in a way.

The novella is more like an epilogue this time as it is a direct continuation of the end of the book. I loved it though and am so glad it was in here.

"Do not try to direct your heart's desires based on presumption of peace. It will never once bring you joy, and it will never lead you home."

Love this series, cannot wait to read more. I'll leave this review with a quote that is a beautiful wish to any and all. Be happy.
"May you always have open roads and kind fires, and all the winds to guide you. May the fires of the hearth only warm, never scorch, and the waters of the well soothe your thirst, but never steal your breath away. May you be happy."