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Worship Matters: Leading Others to Encounter the Greatness of God
Nothing is more essential than knowing how to worship the God who created us. This book focuses readers on the essentials of God-honoring worship, combining biblical foundations with practical application in a way that works in the real world. The author, a pastor and noted songwriter, skillfully instructs pastors, musicians, and church leaders so that they can root their congregational worship in unchanging scriptural principles, not divisive cultural trends. Bob Kauflin covers a variety of topics such as the devastating effects of worshiping the wrong things, how to base our worship on God's self-revelation rather than our assumptions, the fuel of worship, the community of worship, and the ways that eternity's worship should affect our earthly worship. Appropriate for Christians from varied backgrounds and for various denominations, this book will bring a vital perspective to what readers think they understand about praising God.
306 pages, Paperback
First published March 26, 2008
725 people are currently reading
1981 people want to read
About the author
Bob Kauflin
30 books32 followersBob Kauflin is the Director of Sovereign Grace Music for Sovereign Grace Churches.
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 230 reviews
May 20, 2024
Very practical. Very encouraging. Writing on a wide array of content regarding worship, Bob Kauflin shows how biblical values and teachings translate to practical liturgies of Christ-centered worship. His book is directed to worship leaders but I would recommend it to anyone who participates in the life of a local church!
June 5, 2011
Most of the readers who will crack open this book will tell you that worship matters, but most of them will not be able to tell you why it matters so much. For this reason, Kauflin sets out to demonstrate the significance of worship and the biblical teaching regarding it. The book is far more than a theology of worship, but is an extremely practical guide to worship. Rather than focusing on the theoretical, Kauflin dwells on the practical and gives many personal illustrations of the challenges of crafting a worship service.
The work is divided into four parts. The first focuses on the person who leads the congregation in worship. From the very beginning, the writer points us past the show and glamour of the stage and the Sunday morning presentation to the important things. What really matters? Is it the performance, or is it something greater. The greatness of worship, Kauflin points out, should lead the worship leader to a depth of humility because all are inadequate for the task ahead of them. Following this, the writer demonstrates four areas in which all worship leaders struggle (viz., heart, mind, hands, and life). In each area, significant applications are made. The reader is challenged to a number of tests to reveal whether he has made an idol out of ministry or is desiring God first and foremost. The worship leader is also challenged to recognize the significance and importance of sound doctrine. Kauflin also offers here an excellent challenge on the importance of skill in worship. He presents as a careful balance between distracting from worship (failure to have skill) and self-exaltation (idolatry of skill). In regard to life, the reader is reminded that the worship leader must model a life worthy of the Lord. These applications are of great import and spill out in the broader discussion of the book.
Section two moves from examining the worship leader and moves to the discussion of the task of corporate worship. Kauflin defines the task of the worship leader as follows: “A faithful worship leader magnifies the greatness of God in Jesus Christ, through the power of the Holy Spirit, by skillfully combining God’s Word with music, thereby motivating the gathered church to proclaim the gospel, to cherish God’s presence, and to live for God’s glory” (55). The following eleven chapters expand on the particulars of this definition.
Part three is entitled “healthy tensions” and the writer walks the reader across the tightrope of a number of tensions such as trancendance and immanence, head and heart, internal and external, vertical and horizontal, planned and spontaneous, rooted and relevant, skilled and authentic, for the church and for unbelievers, and event and everyday. No worship leader has failed to see the significance of these tensions in the weekly routine of preparation for corporate worship and it is for this reason that the writer’s discussion of these tensions is so powerful for those considering the topic.
The final section dwells on the relationship between the worship leader and the people, the church, the worship team, and the pastor. Kauflin pushes the worship leader to be an example in his public and private testimony. In order to do this, the worship leader is urged to be deeply involved with the people of the church. A number of very helpful suggestions are also given in regard to effectively leading a worship team. The practicality of this chapter is incredible. Lastly, the relationship between the worship leader and the pastor is, according to Kauflin, of great importance. In spite of the worship leader’s skill and desires, he must be willing to submit to the leadership of his pastor.
This reviewer found the following points of great significance in the first section:
"Worship matters. It matters to God because he is the one ultimately worthy of all worship. It matters to us because worshipping God is the reason for which we were created." (19)
"...far too little has been said about the worship wars going on inside us. And they're much more significant." (21)
"...worship isn't primarily about music, techniques, liturgies, songs, or methodologies. It's about hearts. It's about what and who we love more than anything." (25)
What you love six days of the week will influence how you worship on the 7th. (26)
"...music expands the soul and opens us to new ways of experiencing God. But being moved emotionally is different from being changed spiritually." (30)
"When we're dodge about our theology, we're really saying we want our own Jesus." (31)
"If our doctrine is accurate but our hearts are cold toward God himself, our corporate worship will be true but lifeless. Or if we express fervent love for God but present vague, inaccurate, or incomplete ideas of him to those we're leading, our worship will be emotional but misleading--and possibly idolatrous. Neither option brings God glory." (32)
Overall there is no point in which this reviewer can find fault with the theology, instruction, or approach of the work. The book is unparalleled in its depth and breadth on the topic. In a similar vein, this reviewer would recommend that the reader also read Bryan Chapell’s Christ-Centered Worship for a number of practical methods for achieving the challenges set forth in this work.
Extremely well-written in a most enjoyable and readable style, Kauflin has presented the church with powerful direction for a new generation of worship leaders. This generation of worship leaders will take their responsibility with pious reverence in light of the significance of the task ahead, because…worship matters.
The work is divided into four parts. The first focuses on the person who leads the congregation in worship. From the very beginning, the writer points us past the show and glamour of the stage and the Sunday morning presentation to the important things. What really matters? Is it the performance, or is it something greater. The greatness of worship, Kauflin points out, should lead the worship leader to a depth of humility because all are inadequate for the task ahead of them. Following this, the writer demonstrates four areas in which all worship leaders struggle (viz., heart, mind, hands, and life). In each area, significant applications are made. The reader is challenged to a number of tests to reveal whether he has made an idol out of ministry or is desiring God first and foremost. The worship leader is also challenged to recognize the significance and importance of sound doctrine. Kauflin also offers here an excellent challenge on the importance of skill in worship. He presents as a careful balance between distracting from worship (failure to have skill) and self-exaltation (idolatry of skill). In regard to life, the reader is reminded that the worship leader must model a life worthy of the Lord. These applications are of great import and spill out in the broader discussion of the book.
Section two moves from examining the worship leader and moves to the discussion of the task of corporate worship. Kauflin defines the task of the worship leader as follows: “A faithful worship leader magnifies the greatness of God in Jesus Christ, through the power of the Holy Spirit, by skillfully combining God’s Word with music, thereby motivating the gathered church to proclaim the gospel, to cherish God’s presence, and to live for God’s glory” (55). The following eleven chapters expand on the particulars of this definition.
Part three is entitled “healthy tensions” and the writer walks the reader across the tightrope of a number of tensions such as trancendance and immanence, head and heart, internal and external, vertical and horizontal, planned and spontaneous, rooted and relevant, skilled and authentic, for the church and for unbelievers, and event and everyday. No worship leader has failed to see the significance of these tensions in the weekly routine of preparation for corporate worship and it is for this reason that the writer’s discussion of these tensions is so powerful for those considering the topic.
The final section dwells on the relationship between the worship leader and the people, the church, the worship team, and the pastor. Kauflin pushes the worship leader to be an example in his public and private testimony. In order to do this, the worship leader is urged to be deeply involved with the people of the church. A number of very helpful suggestions are also given in regard to effectively leading a worship team. The practicality of this chapter is incredible. Lastly, the relationship between the worship leader and the pastor is, according to Kauflin, of great importance. In spite of the worship leader’s skill and desires, he must be willing to submit to the leadership of his pastor.
This reviewer found the following points of great significance in the first section:
"Worship matters. It matters to God because he is the one ultimately worthy of all worship. It matters to us because worshipping God is the reason for which we were created." (19)
"...far too little has been said about the worship wars going on inside us. And they're much more significant." (21)
"...worship isn't primarily about music, techniques, liturgies, songs, or methodologies. It's about hearts. It's about what and who we love more than anything." (25)
What you love six days of the week will influence how you worship on the 7th. (26)
"...music expands the soul and opens us to new ways of experiencing God. But being moved emotionally is different from being changed spiritually." (30)
"When we're dodge about our theology, we're really saying we want our own Jesus." (31)
"If our doctrine is accurate but our hearts are cold toward God himself, our corporate worship will be true but lifeless. Or if we express fervent love for God but present vague, inaccurate, or incomplete ideas of him to those we're leading, our worship will be emotional but misleading--and possibly idolatrous. Neither option brings God glory." (32)
Overall there is no point in which this reviewer can find fault with the theology, instruction, or approach of the work. The book is unparalleled in its depth and breadth on the topic. In a similar vein, this reviewer would recommend that the reader also read Bryan Chapell’s Christ-Centered Worship for a number of practical methods for achieving the challenges set forth in this work.
Extremely well-written in a most enjoyable and readable style, Kauflin has presented the church with powerful direction for a new generation of worship leaders. This generation of worship leaders will take their responsibility with pious reverence in light of the significance of the task ahead, because…worship matters.
April 11, 2017
Lectura obligada para todo pastor y para los miembros del ministerio de adoración corporativa.
***
Must read for every pastor and for every member of a corporate worship team.
***
Must read for every pastor and for every member of a corporate worship team.
July 25, 2011
What a breakthrough book in this area. Bob Kauflin is equally solid as he discusses both the biblical basis for worship/music and the practical musical issues. As a long time worship leader, this is the book I enthusiastically recommend on the topic - get it and read it.
September 8, 2018
Really good and covered a lot of ground--from broad scope to details. I had a few theological differences with him (but just a half star's worth). There were other parts that didn't pertain to my smaller church situation very well, so I didn't enjoy them much either. All in all: 4 stars.
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April 20, 2017Worship Matters is much more than a handbook for worship leaders or a musical position statement. Kauflin delves into the theology of worship and explores the ways in which that theology should drive decisions made in both a corporate and personal worship context.
This book challenged me to think about the why's behind the worship activities we partake in every week, and far from being a defense of a particular application of music in worship, Kauflin instead encourages all worshipers to draw their patterns and positions from Scripture.
This book is well worth the read, even if you don't agree with every single conclusion Kauflin makes about application.
This book challenged me to think about the why's behind the worship activities we partake in every week, and far from being a defense of a particular application of music in worship, Kauflin instead encourages all worshipers to draw their patterns and positions from Scripture.
This book is well worth the read, even if you don't agree with every single conclusion Kauflin makes about application.
March 12, 2022
This book was able to cover sooo many details about why we worship through music, how we lead worship and even the relationships you need to build as worship leaders. This is a book every worship leader needs to read and read again.
July 1, 2024
Extremely valuable thoughts stored in this book.
June 17, 2015
Some reviews of this book amount to little more than, 'It was too long.' And, I would agree with those, if this book wasn't so cleverly structured and set out, with easily navigated sections, chapter headings, and subheadings. Kauflin demonstrates an immense amount of practical experience, musical expertise, careful theological application, Spirit given wisdom, and an understanding of both team dynamics and leadership roles in the local church. This book would benefit anyone involved in worship, those who lead the church and anyone who is interested in gaining a fuller and biblically faithful view of music in the life of the Christian.
March 23, 2022
Such a strong, solid book on musical worship. Gives proper emphasis to the importance of music, its joys, and its challenges. Lots of practical insight throughout. Recommended to anyone interested in music ministry at any level!
March 25, 2022
Este valioso recurso nos da un panorama de lo que es verdaderamente la adoración y cómo la música es solo una pequeña expresión que, aunque no debe ser menospreciada, tampoco debe ser el centro de nuestra vida. Con una lectura fácil, Bob Kauflin nos muestra cómo la adoración comienza desde el conocimiento de Dios y el reflejo que este emana en la música que como músicos interpretamos.
Este libro nos llama a reflexionar sobre la verdadera adoración y a cómo la música cristiana contemporánea debe ser vista con los lentes del evangelio y no de los arreglos o ritmos pegadizos que mueven las emociones. Sin duda es un libro que recomiendo tanto a los músicos y pastores, como a un miembro de la iglesia local para que vea su vida como adoración a Dios y no como en nuestro contexto latinoamericano se ha distorsionado, haciendo ver que la adoración es música lenta (tipo balada) y la alabanza es música rápida.
Este libro nos llama a reflexionar sobre la verdadera adoración y a cómo la música cristiana contemporánea debe ser vista con los lentes del evangelio y no de los arreglos o ritmos pegadizos que mueven las emociones. Sin duda es un libro que recomiendo tanto a los músicos y pastores, como a un miembro de la iglesia local para que vea su vida como adoración a Dios y no como en nuestro contexto latinoamericano se ha distorsionado, haciendo ver que la adoración es música lenta (tipo balada) y la alabanza es música rápida.
June 13, 2019
Really helpful book designed for worship leaders. Goes from the depths of biblical explanations of what worship is to the nuts and bolts of everything that goes into leading a Sunday morning service. Bob’s irenic and humble demeanor make the book extremely enjoyable to read and helpful to realize one’s own deficiencies. I am not a musician, but I wanted to read this book to better understand the role music plays on a Sunday morning, and this book certainly helped.
The only downside of the book comes from a disagreement I have with the author’s view of the charismatic gifts. I am not a charismatic and would disagree with his views on spontaneous prophetic utterances in the worship service. However, this only comprises a very small slice of the book—everything else is worth a very hearty amen.
The only downside of the book comes from a disagreement I have with the author’s view of the charismatic gifts. I am not a charismatic and would disagree with his views on spontaneous prophetic utterances in the worship service. However, this only comprises a very small slice of the book—everything else is worth a very hearty amen.
June 13, 2017
Excellent book on what it means to be a worship leader in the church. I appreciate Kauflin's emphasis on worship as a way of life and thus the need for personal holiness in a worship leader. Throughout the book, he balances theological/philosophical comments with practical tips. The chapters about "healthy tensions" were very helpful.
November 27, 2018
This book helped me see music and worship as bigger and more glorious than just songs on Sunday morning. From tips on how to work together better as a team and model the body of Christ working together, to growing in my biblical understanding of the involvement of emotions and the mind in worship. This book was very encouraging and thought provoking.
January 19, 2021
I was not the right audience for this book. I am a layperson; not a worship leader. This book is for a person who participates in the leading of worship either as a music minister or a musician during a worship service. I do neither of those things. With that being said, it gave me a new perspective on elements of a worship service and the heart position of a worshipper.
March 26, 2024
A really comprehensive guide on worship and its role and function within a church, a really helpful read for any worship leaders - and even for other members of the church to rethink the part worship does and should play in the life of the believer
August 24, 2021
good for worship leaders
March 16, 2022
Good book on worship. I wished he would have talked more about the regulative principle of worship and the origins of biblical worship.
Read
June 12, 2025Helpful for worship leaders and pastors in conventional church settings. I liked that it was practical but not too pragmatic. Theologically relatively unspectacular.
August 7, 2025
Such a helpful explanation on the theology of worship. Lots of practical wisdom for how this theology is applied in the local church. A favorite this year for sure.
December 13, 2025
This book drips with humility and wisdom! It’s a very important work when considering corporate worship and the role of the worship leader. Highly recommended!
September 3, 2024
This is easily a must read for music ministers and pastors. Read it, and then read it again. This is an incredible resource of balanced theological content surrounding the philosophical and practical considerations surrounding music in the worship gathering. Bob Kauflin has been used greatly by the Lord in this book and in his career as a music minister. I cannot commend this book enough.
July 14, 2016
When I was first given this book just over a year ago by our song leader, I wasn't too enthused. It appeared to be a stuffy, boring treatise on using music in a church to worship God. I couldn't have been further from the truth!
This book is an excellent read and one that has greatly enriched me in several ways. As a Christian, it helped me to see that worship is not just during the music service. As a pastor, it has helped me see the different dynamics that go into planning and preparing a service which glorifies God in ALL aspects.
In the book, Kauflin describes how a few years before the book was written (2008), he set out to come up with the definition for a "worship leader." He wanted to clarify his understanding of what God was calling him to do in the church he was serving. Here is what he came up with:
A faithful worship leader
magnifies the greatness of God in Jesus Christ
through the power of the Holy Spirit
by skilfully combining God's Word with music,
thereby motivating the gathered church
to proclaim the gospel,
to cherish God's presence,
and to live for God's glory.
For a good portion of the book, he takes each line of the above definition he came up with and writes a particular chapter. Again, each chapter was solid both biblically and practically.
The last two chapters were outstanding. One was written to song leaders or worship leaders in conjunction to their relationship with the pastor they are serving. Wow - Kauflin spares no words and gets below the surface when it comes to issues that often arise between music leaders and the pastor of a church.
The last chapter is written to pastors and encourages them that they are to be the (they actually are whether they realize it or not) the one who teaches, leads, shapes, and molds the people in their churches towards worship more than the music (worship, song, etc) leader will do.
This will be a book I will refer to in the years to come as we seek to worship God in a manner fitting the King of Kings and Lord of Lords!
This book is an excellent read and one that has greatly enriched me in several ways. As a Christian, it helped me to see that worship is not just during the music service. As a pastor, it has helped me see the different dynamics that go into planning and preparing a service which glorifies God in ALL aspects.
In the book, Kauflin describes how a few years before the book was written (2008), he set out to come up with the definition for a "worship leader." He wanted to clarify his understanding of what God was calling him to do in the church he was serving. Here is what he came up with:
A faithful worship leader
magnifies the greatness of God in Jesus Christ
through the power of the Holy Spirit
by skilfully combining God's Word with music,
thereby motivating the gathered church
to proclaim the gospel,
to cherish God's presence,
and to live for God's glory.
For a good portion of the book, he takes each line of the above definition he came up with and writes a particular chapter. Again, each chapter was solid both biblically and practically.
The last two chapters were outstanding. One was written to song leaders or worship leaders in conjunction to their relationship with the pastor they are serving. Wow - Kauflin spares no words and gets below the surface when it comes to issues that often arise between music leaders and the pastor of a church.
The last chapter is written to pastors and encourages them that they are to be the (they actually are whether they realize it or not) the one who teaches, leads, shapes, and molds the people in their churches towards worship more than the music (worship, song, etc) leader will do.
This will be a book I will refer to in the years to come as we seek to worship God in a manner fitting the King of Kings and Lord of Lords!
August 22, 2025
This is a helpful book, written for worship leaders specifically, that I would've benefitted from greatly when I was leading worship during college. I let the worship "culture" I had seen for years dictate my worship leadership more than Scripture-informed principles. Kauflin gives us a healthy dose of Scripture in this book and "redefines" worship in broader terms than music allows.
The first section focuses on the heart, mind, hands, and life of the worship leader.
The second section focuses on what the worship leader does: "A faithful worship leader magnifies the greatness of God in Jesus Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit, skillfully combining God's Word with music, thereby motivating the gathered church to proclaim the gospel to cherish God's presence and to live for God's glory."
The third section focuses on "paradigms in conflict" in worship leadership. Kauflin doesn't pit these against one another; he helpfully avoids advocating false dichotomies and shows us a way for a "both/and" model.
The fourth and last section focuses on the relationships the worship leader has with people, the church, his team, the pastor, and concludes with a chapter written for pastors.
I think the main weakness of the book - if I have to point one out - is the way Kauflin assumes a solo-pastor model for those who read this book. He assumes that the worship leader is never a pastor as well, and even in cases where the worship leader might be a pastor, he functionally advocates for a model wherein there is one pastor with a greater superiority than the others.
UPDATE: Read it a second time, this time for a discipling context; it's still helpful and will allow you to have good conversations on the subject.
The first section focuses on the heart, mind, hands, and life of the worship leader.
The second section focuses on what the worship leader does: "A faithful worship leader magnifies the greatness of God in Jesus Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit, skillfully combining God's Word with music, thereby motivating the gathered church to proclaim the gospel to cherish God's presence and to live for God's glory."
The third section focuses on "paradigms in conflict" in worship leadership. Kauflin doesn't pit these against one another; he helpfully avoids advocating false dichotomies and shows us a way for a "both/and" model.
The fourth and last section focuses on the relationships the worship leader has with people, the church, his team, the pastor, and concludes with a chapter written for pastors.
I think the main weakness of the book - if I have to point one out - is the way Kauflin assumes a solo-pastor model for those who read this book. He assumes that the worship leader is never a pastor as well, and even in cases where the worship leader might be a pastor, he functionally advocates for a model wherein there is one pastor with a greater superiority than the others.
UPDATE: Read it a second time, this time for a discipling context; it's still helpful and will allow you to have good conversations on the subject.
March 22, 2012
I am not a worship leader. I'm a pastor. No, wait - that makes me a worship leader, just not in the realm of music. That's an important distinction to make, and one which Bob Kauflin makes in this valuable book: "Anyone who encourages others to praise God can be referred to as a 'worship leader.' Worship can involve music, but it can happen without it as well." Careful thinking like that make this book a treasure-trove of biblical wisdom and practical insight on worship.
Kauflin unpacks what a worship leader does, discusses healthy tensions in our theology and practice of worship, speaks specifically to the relational dynamics in which every worship leader is involved (with the church, the team, the pastor), and more.
The book is rooted in the Gospel, robust in theology, and well-written. I was encouraged and instructed. And I'm committed to making sure every present and future member of our church's worship team gets a copy. This is a great book for pastors, worship leaders, and worship teams. In fact, it's a great book for any one who wants to worship God in spirit and truth. It is practical enough to be of real use to musicians and leaders, but it is general enough to encourage and help any believer.
Spread the word. This is a great book on worship! Thanks Bob Kauflin for serving the church with this book.
Kauflin unpacks what a worship leader does, discusses healthy tensions in our theology and practice of worship, speaks specifically to the relational dynamics in which every worship leader is involved (with the church, the team, the pastor), and more.
The book is rooted in the Gospel, robust in theology, and well-written. I was encouraged and instructed. And I'm committed to making sure every present and future member of our church's worship team gets a copy. This is a great book for pastors, worship leaders, and worship teams. In fact, it's a great book for any one who wants to worship God in spirit and truth. It is practical enough to be of real use to musicians and leaders, but it is general enough to encourage and help any believer.
Spread the word. This is a great book on worship! Thanks Bob Kauflin for serving the church with this book.
August 23, 2015
It's wonderful to see key people addressing worship and challenging leaders to define worship biblically and apply biblical principles to the use of music in Christian worship. I suspect most church musicians would benefit greatly from reading this book.
Regrettably, this book reflects a journey more begun than complete. The direction is admirable, but the product is worthy of congratulations only against the backdrop of the chronic theological ignorance too common in pop expressions of Christianity. Throw in a dash of Charismaticism and not-Fundamentalist-but-more-Fundamentalist-than-they-realise, and you're getting the picture of this book.
In short, Kauflin is neither a strong theologian nor a precise thinker, but he does value and encourage both sound theology and careful thinking and for that, I'm thankful.
Regrettably, this book reflects a journey more begun than complete. The direction is admirable, but the product is worthy of congratulations only against the backdrop of the chronic theological ignorance too common in pop expressions of Christianity. Throw in a dash of Charismaticism and not-Fundamentalist-but-more-Fundamentalist-than-they-realise, and you're getting the picture of this book.
In short, Kauflin is neither a strong theologian nor a precise thinker, but he does value and encourage both sound theology and careful thinking and for that, I'm thankful.
September 30, 2011
This is an excellent book that focuses around leading the singing portion of a church service. The first two sections of the book (The Leader and The Task) are excellent but somewhat slow going at times due to the extremely theoretical nature to them (although Bob mixes many personal stories and experiences into these sections). The next two sections (Healthy Tensions and Right Relationships) are much more applicational. I would recommend this book to anyone who takes part in leading singing or is interested in learning more about worship, but for those who are short on time I would HIGHLY recommend simply reading Section 3 - Healthy Tensions.
October 15, 2014
This is an excellent book for anyone who desires to think more about corporate worship. While more needs to be said on this subject, this is a wonderful place to start. We need more guys like Kauflin, guys who are gifted musically and have a passion for deep theology. One of the great things about this book is that it can be used by various groups of people who are similar in theology, but whose congregational services may look different. In this sense then this book provides a great foundation. That foundation will need to be built on though by other books as well as the pastors and leaders in each particular church.
February 9, 2017
This is an excellent book that every worship leader/pastor should read.
August 10, 2021
Really good. I think that because I’ve grown up as a Christian and a worship leader in contexts that have challenged me to engage deeply with a lot of the questions and issues that Kauflin addresses (theological awareness, the work of the Holy Spirit, Gospel centrality), I already feel firmly established in some of the core awarenesses that this book is intended to instill. For some people this book would be life-changing, or it might redefine the course of their ministry—and for good reason. For my part, it held some helpful reminders and a few fresh application points. I had a few quibbles here and there, but this is a good work. The bits about excellence were very helpful.
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