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Pendragon: The Definitive Account of the Origins of Arthur
In Pendragon , authors Steve Blake and Scott Lloyd separate legend from fact and expose the enigma of Arthur. They differentiate the Arthur portrayed in popular literature and the romances of old from the warrior remembered in the early writings and traditions of his own people. Pendragon reveals that Arthur was not even a king and deciphers one of the greatest mysteries of all Where is Arthur buried?
310 pages, Paperback
First published November 1, 2002
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Displaying 1 - 12 of 12 reviews
April 7, 2020
Наукова книга, присвячена королю Артуру, його оточенню та діяльності, місцям можливого проживання та перебування. Автори надзвичайно ретельно вивчили та узагальнили давні усні та письмові джерела про легендарного правителя та воїна бритів. Читати трохи важко, бо книга має довідковий характер.
August 8, 2010
My sister put me on to this book, which is an excellent read for anybody interested in the grand myth of Arthur, particularly in its obscure origins and many versions. It is an argumentative work, laying out a thoroughgoing case for an original Arthur who was neither British nor a king, but an important Welsh general and generally bloody-handed bastard, like everybody else who held any power in those days.
The case seems a strong one, though I must take the authors' word for much of the background. In the cultural crosscurrent left in the British Isles after the Romans' hold over them ebbed--and these are precisely the days in which the historical Arthur lived--there were a lot of slips of translation. The phrase Ynys Prydein, critically, might be used by two contemporaries in two different ways--one might mean the realm of Prydein (approximately Wales) while another meant the Island of Britain as we call it now. That strange metanational entity, Britain, takes its name from the Welsh name for itself, dating back to that confusion of terms. And it is precisely in that shift that Arthur appears to have leapt beyond his regional fame as a Celtic war hero to become the king of England.
It's a headache to keep all the Welsh names straight, at least for me, to whom they look like unpronounceable series of consonants a lot of the time. And I very often wished I could sit down with the authors and cross-examine some point or other. But that aside, it's tremendously edifying and a must-read for Arthur nerds.
I have always loved Arthurian stories, though I am far from being a real scholar of the myth. I had my eleventh birthday during a month's vacation in England, and was given a guidebook of Arthurian sites throughout the country; this, along with a handful of highly rehashed, contemporary Arthur books, formed my basic understanding of the story. And in that book, too, it was always clear that alongside the better-known shiny-armor version of King Arthur, there was an older Welsh tradition to do with an early war chieftain. As a guidebook must do, it continues to have much to say about a panoply of sites connected to later romances, so the old Welsh story seemed a curio to me at the time, not really a central concern. Rereading the introduction now, though, it is interesting that the guide's author was quite clear--Arthur was indeed a Welsh military leader in the 500s. The guidebook was published in 1980. Blake and Lloyd might disagree with some particulars, and would probably contract the geographical limits of the story much further, but they are of course not the first to look over the sources and realize where the oldest material placed the man. Still, they have done painstaking work in fleshing out that long-hidden true picture.
The case seems a strong one, though I must take the authors' word for much of the background. In the cultural crosscurrent left in the British Isles after the Romans' hold over them ebbed--and these are precisely the days in which the historical Arthur lived--there were a lot of slips of translation. The phrase Ynys Prydein, critically, might be used by two contemporaries in two different ways--one might mean the realm of Prydein (approximately Wales) while another meant the Island of Britain as we call it now. That strange metanational entity, Britain, takes its name from the Welsh name for itself, dating back to that confusion of terms. And it is precisely in that shift that Arthur appears to have leapt beyond his regional fame as a Celtic war hero to become the king of England.
It's a headache to keep all the Welsh names straight, at least for me, to whom they look like unpronounceable series of consonants a lot of the time. And I very often wished I could sit down with the authors and cross-examine some point or other. But that aside, it's tremendously edifying and a must-read for Arthur nerds.
I have always loved Arthurian stories, though I am far from being a real scholar of the myth. I had my eleventh birthday during a month's vacation in England, and was given a guidebook of Arthurian sites throughout the country; this, along with a handful of highly rehashed, contemporary Arthur books, formed my basic understanding of the story. And in that book, too, it was always clear that alongside the better-known shiny-armor version of King Arthur, there was an older Welsh tradition to do with an early war chieftain. As a guidebook must do, it continues to have much to say about a panoply of sites connected to later romances, so the old Welsh story seemed a curio to me at the time, not really a central concern. Rereading the introduction now, though, it is interesting that the guide's author was quite clear--Arthur was indeed a Welsh military leader in the 500s. The guidebook was published in 1980. Blake and Lloyd might disagree with some particulars, and would probably contract the geographical limits of the story much further, but they are of course not the first to look over the sources and realize where the oldest material placed the man. Still, they have done painstaking work in fleshing out that long-hidden true picture.
August 25, 2012
The main argument of this book revolves around the idea that the 'early Welsh sources' of Arthurian legend are likely to be the correct ones, and focuses on trying to situate a sixth-century Arthur within the Welsh context. This is great and, as someone who lives in the Welsh hills, it's not a stretch to say that no place seems more suited to Arthuriana than these desolate and misty mountains. The problem is that for all Blake and Lloyd are passionate about these early Welsh texts, they hardly quote from them at all. I'd have loved to see more basic information about these texts and be able to read some extracts from them, and that would also have served to give this book the solid ground to stand on which it seems to lack. The rest of their argument - looking at place names, fitting the location to what we know from the legend, looking at any actual finds which may or may not exist from there - was incredibly interesting, but I definitely felt that it needed more of a basis. If you're well read in these Welsh texts and thus don't need a re-cap, then this book is probably excellent.
It also felt too quick to dismiss certain facts and traditions without giving the readers much of an explanation for this. The grave site at Glastonbury, for example, is automatically talked of as something which has been fabricated, but this argument would benefit from an explanation or two. This lack of explanation seemed even more strange given that the most convincing argument Blake and Lloyd present is for the burial of Arthur near Rhyd Llanfair. The combination of an early graveyard found there combined with the references to Vera Historia had me perfectly convinced and, if I'm completely honest, rather keen to jump in my car and drive over to explore the site for myself. I hope that some keen archaeologists latch onto this idea some time soon and we hear of some proper excavations taking place: it seems strange that, as somewhere that could quite feasibly be Arthur's burial place, no one has yet done this.
Overall, an interesting read, but may come across as somewhat indecipherable to those unfamiliar with Wales and the Welsh language, and it would have benefitted greatly from slowing down to explain the sources they're working with. It has, however, left me keen to do more investigating of these Welsh sources... and to take a little trip up to North Wales sometime soon.
It also felt too quick to dismiss certain facts and traditions without giving the readers much of an explanation for this. The grave site at Glastonbury, for example, is automatically talked of as something which has been fabricated, but this argument would benefit from an explanation or two. This lack of explanation seemed even more strange given that the most convincing argument Blake and Lloyd present is for the burial of Arthur near Rhyd Llanfair. The combination of an early graveyard found there combined with the references to Vera Historia had me perfectly convinced and, if I'm completely honest, rather keen to jump in my car and drive over to explore the site for myself. I hope that some keen archaeologists latch onto this idea some time soon and we hear of some proper excavations taking place: it seems strange that, as somewhere that could quite feasibly be Arthur's burial place, no one has yet done this.
Overall, an interesting read, but may come across as somewhat indecipherable to those unfamiliar with Wales and the Welsh language, and it would have benefitted greatly from slowing down to explain the sources they're working with. It has, however, left me keen to do more investigating of these Welsh sources... and to take a little trip up to North Wales sometime soon.
September 11, 2008
I have very mixed feelings about this book. For starters, no one should ever make the claim that a history book is a "definitive" account. There's no such thing. New discoveries and interpretations are always coming to light. On the other hand, the authors' idea that in looking for the origins of King Arthur we should look at the very earliest sources, before the later accretions, is an excellent idea. They do a good job in showing how the later layers of the story developed. But I think they become too enamoured of their theory that all the Celtic British stories and history are only about Wales and only take place in Wales. They claim to have proved this beyond the shadow of a doubt, which is foolish when we have so little material about the years between the departure of the Romans and the completion of the Anglo-Saxon conquest of Britain. I also object to their use of the phrase "Welsh tradition says", which is just bad historical practice. Cite your sources properly! I got the feeling they were using this to gloss over the fact that there are very few sources at all and to make what they gleaned from those few sources sound more authoritative. The book is an interesting look at a very obscure period, and I enjoyed it when it wasn't making me furious.
April 23, 2023
It's a fine analysis of literary sources for Arthur removing those that have no relationship to the original sources and explaining what the original sources actually reveal, how some prior scholarship has misinterpreted sources to expand the range of Arthur's actions to an area of the British isles beyond what was likely factual which in turn caused more issues.
However the last line of the blurb is "Pendragon deciphers one of the greatest mysteries of all time: where is Arthur buried?"
Now if you were making a joke of this could say Arthur was buried somewhere in the British Isles and claim to have answered this question and unfortunately be almost as accurate as this book. While the authors suggest some ideas they themselves state that its unlikely to ever locate the grave of Arthur because in his own time he was noteworthy but not more than many other heroic figures of his time.
Fortunately the author's point in writing was not to reveal the resting place of Arthur but to put him in his true historical perspective not the legendary romanticised figure later eras turn Arthur into. As the author writes " If we have been able to prove ...that a cohesive Arthurian tradition existed in Wales before the arrival of the Normans ... then we have achieved our aim."
In this point I believe the Author succeeds.
However the last line of the blurb is "Pendragon deciphers one of the greatest mysteries of all time: where is Arthur buried?"
Now if you were making a joke of this could say Arthur was buried somewhere in the British Isles and claim to have answered this question and unfortunately be almost as accurate as this book. While the authors suggest some ideas they themselves state that its unlikely to ever locate the grave of Arthur because in his own time he was noteworthy but not more than many other heroic figures of his time.
Fortunately the author's point in writing was not to reveal the resting place of Arthur but to put him in his true historical perspective not the legendary romanticised figure later eras turn Arthur into. As the author writes " If we have been able to prove ...that a cohesive Arthurian tradition existed in Wales before the arrival of the Normans ... then we have achieved our aim."
In this point I believe the Author succeeds.
June 4, 2021
A very interesting book. A pity there was no explanation as to what Prydein translates into; as well in the appendix Gwythyr ap Greidiol is mentioned as a father to one of three Gwenhwyfars that were queens to Arthur but the book only mentioned one.
June 16, 2020
Some worthy time-lines and a few mentions/synopsis of major works, nothing really new here, but a decent reference book. Poor quality paper, like a lot of new books.
April 11, 2021
While there were some interesting parts of the book, I found it to be not as smoothly written as it could have been. I think sometimes having two authors doesn't always work out.
September 29, 2013
Pendragon,
Continued the excellent basis for the true history of Arthur in Wales. I read this book after reading the Keys To Avalon. I am now interested in visiting the research center that the authors have established in Wales.
I think Philippa makes a great point regarding source materials. It might make the basis for a third edition. I can see a point of making a convincing argument that might warrant further evaluation of the assertions made by the authors.
Philippa also correctly points out the need for some explanation of the complicated aspects of the language. More wok here would help with the logic regarding the place names.
The authors do present a premise that the heritage of Arthur was commandeered by the English (Norman invaders) like King Edward - while this makes a great deal of sense - it would be good to understand this more deeply. This effort has likely been the basis for much of the misconception respecting the reality of Arthur's existence. However, it does seem that this helped preserve the history through-out the ages.
All in all, this is a very intriguing story and quite believable.
Highly recommended,
Ray
Continued the excellent basis for the true history of Arthur in Wales. I read this book after reading the Keys To Avalon. I am now interested in visiting the research center that the authors have established in Wales.
I think Philippa makes a great point regarding source materials. It might make the basis for a third edition. I can see a point of making a convincing argument that might warrant further evaluation of the assertions made by the authors.
Philippa also correctly points out the need for some explanation of the complicated aspects of the language. More wok here would help with the logic regarding the place names.
The authors do present a premise that the heritage of Arthur was commandeered by the English (Norman invaders) like King Edward - while this makes a great deal of sense - it would be good to understand this more deeply. This effort has likely been the basis for much of the misconception respecting the reality of Arthur's existence. However, it does seem that this helped preserve the history through-out the ages.
All in all, this is a very intriguing story and quite believable.
Highly recommended,
Ray
Read
May 19, 2011Good as a list for those doing research or those with compulsive knowledge that want to delve a bit deeper, but lacking in narrative/authorial focus for those of us with a less detailed working knowledge of the Author mythos. If you are doing a thesis paper on the legends of Arthur or history-vs-mythology it would be a wondrous tool, as strong work was done and it shows, but this is definitely for a very narrow audience and not accessible enough for those outside of it. If you're a member of that audience though, enjoy!
May 28, 2013
Well, okay, so Arthur is likely a Welsh warlord circa sixth century CE. The authors mine the Welsh literature for all its worth but get caught up in details best left to an appendix. Probably the greatest value they bring is sorting out a more historically plausible cast of characters (e.g. forget Merlin and Lancelot!) and a more accurate geography for "Camelot". And no, Arthur probably wasn't even a king.
October 22, 2007
The authors have done a huge amount of research not only into the historical origins of King Arthur, but they have broken down the family tree and mythic characters according to regional tradition. A lot of work must have gone into it.
Displaying 1 - 12 of 12 reviews