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Essais Series #4
My Conversations with Canadians
Harkening back to her first book tour at the age of 26 (for the autobiographical novel Bobbi Lee: Indian Rebel), and touching down upon a multitude of experiences she's had as a Canadian, a First Nations leader, a woman and mother and grandmother over the course of her life, Lee Maracle's Conversations with Canadians presents a tour de force exploration into the writer's own history and a re-imagining of the future of our nation.
In this latest addition to BookThug's Essais Series (edited by poet Julie Joosten), Maracle's writing works to engage readers in thinking about the threads that keep Canadians tied together as a nation--and also, at times, threaten to pull us apart--so that the sense of sovereignty and nationhood that she feels may be understood and even embraced by Canadians.
In this latest addition to BookThug's Essais Series (edited by poet Julie Joosten), Maracle's writing works to engage readers in thinking about the threads that keep Canadians tied together as a nation--and also, at times, threaten to pull us apart--so that the sense of sovereignty and nationhood that she feels may be understood and even embraced by Canadians.
160 pages, Kindle Edition
First published September 12, 2017
51 people are currently reading
1171 people want to read
About the author
Lee Maracle
33 books282 followersBorn in Vancouver, British Columbia, she grew up in the neighbouring city of North Vancouver and attended Simon Fraser University. She was one of the first Aboriginal people to be published in the early 1970s.
Maracle is one of the most prolific aboriginal authors in Canada and a recognized authority on issues pertaining to aboriginal people and aboriginal literature. She is an award-winning poet, novelist, performance storyteller, scriptwriter, actor and keeper/mythmaker among the Stó:lō people.
Maracle was one of the founders of the En’owkin International School of Writing in Penticton, British Columbia and the cultural director of the Centre for Indigenous Theatre in Toronto, Ontario.
Maracle has given hundreds of speeches on political, historical, and feminist sociological topics related to native people, and conducted dozens of workshops on personal and cultural reclamation. She has served as a consultant on First Nations’ self-government and has an extensive history
in community development. She has been described as “a walking history book” and an international expert on Canadian First Nations culture and history.
Maracle has taught at the University of Toronto, University of Waterloo, Southern Oregon University and has served as professor of Canadian culture at Western Washington University. She currently lives in Toronto, teaching at the University of Toronto First Nations House. She most recently was the writer-in-residence at the University of Guelph.
Maracle is one of the most prolific aboriginal authors in Canada and a recognized authority on issues pertaining to aboriginal people and aboriginal literature. She is an award-winning poet, novelist, performance storyteller, scriptwriter, actor and keeper/mythmaker among the Stó:lō people.
Maracle was one of the founders of the En’owkin International School of Writing in Penticton, British Columbia and the cultural director of the Centre for Indigenous Theatre in Toronto, Ontario.
Maracle has given hundreds of speeches on political, historical, and feminist sociological topics related to native people, and conducted dozens of workshops on personal and cultural reclamation. She has served as a consultant on First Nations’ self-government and has an extensive history
in community development. She has been described as “a walking history book” and an international expert on Canadian First Nations culture and history.
Maracle has taught at the University of Toronto, University of Waterloo, Southern Oregon University and has served as professor of Canadian culture at Western Washington University. She currently lives in Toronto, teaching at the University of Toronto First Nations House. She most recently was the writer-in-residence at the University of Guelph.
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 111 reviews
January 31, 2019
I had some trouble with this book, possibly because I was looking forward to it so much. It is presented as a series of conversations between Maracle and her Canadian readers, and yet these are not conversations; Maracle is frustrated, and this is her way of venting.
Her frustration is understandable: as a writer, she has confronted an array of troubling questions from her Canadian audiences over the years, from the well-intentioned to the outright racist. It is these questions that she is tackling in the book, using them as jumping off points for various discussions on colonialism and Indigeneity. She is putting the record straight.
And yet, again and again her tone does damage to the book’s stated intention. She is too often dismissive of her reader, dismissive, belittling, and oppositional. (She mocks the settler-ally who asks, “What can we do to help?” as well as those compelled to seek forgiveness for the part they have played in contemporary colonialism, while also dismissing the very concept of forgiveness. She also dismisses the idea that Canadians can have plural cultural identities, a view I find problematic.)
All of this serves to weaken the book: it cuts off conversation, closes doors, and can easily push away a tentative reader who is genuinely coming to her seeking a better understanding of colonialism and their place in it.
(As an aside, I also occasionally lost the thread of her arguments – a more minor complaint, and something I blame as much on sloppy editing as anything else.)
An exception to my above criticisms is a lengthier chapter on “appropriation,” which ends up being a study on Indigenous knowledge, its importance, and the systems for safeguarding and transmitting it, and how this relates to responsibility and stewardship. It’s good stuff.
For yes, there is much of merit here as well. Maracle insists on placing herself at the centre of her own story (and likewise the Indigenous perspective at the centre of its own story), and indeed the part that hit home most for me was her argument against referring to Indigenous people as a "marginalized" group (a word that suggests they should ideally be brought into a settler "centre"). This refusal of the colonial/settler "centre" is incredibly effective at destabilizing the colonial perspective, of both the settler state and the setter mind. Maracle has a confidence and a self-possession that is truly impressive, and makes you listen.
She also presents an incisive critique of colonialism. She is not fooled by anything or anyone, and has sussed out the colonial project in all of its forms, past and present, insidious and residual. My only wish is that she had invited her reader in to revel in this critique along with her more often.
Oddly enough, the best section is one that is tacked on at the end, an untitled piece after the final “conversation.” It begins as a rambling discussion of the written word and turns into a poetic, intimate musing on dance – as both a necessary personal expression and a collective, spiritual, and distinctly Indigenous endeavour:
“I need it to know that I belong to a community, to my history, that I am more than a workwoman, a drudge, a survivor. I need it to know I have a cultural history, a cultural being worthy of presentation. I need to know I am present and presented. My body needs to know there is a direct connection between my origin and my current being. I need to know that there is greatness and glory in our history and that we are capable of creating artistic witness of ourselves in the context of history, that our lives are the subject that can and must birth beautiful art.”
Oh, if only the book had been filled with more of that!
Her frustration is understandable: as a writer, she has confronted an array of troubling questions from her Canadian audiences over the years, from the well-intentioned to the outright racist. It is these questions that she is tackling in the book, using them as jumping off points for various discussions on colonialism and Indigeneity. She is putting the record straight.
And yet, again and again her tone does damage to the book’s stated intention. She is too often dismissive of her reader, dismissive, belittling, and oppositional. (She mocks the settler-ally who asks, “What can we do to help?” as well as those compelled to seek forgiveness for the part they have played in contemporary colonialism, while also dismissing the very concept of forgiveness. She also dismisses the idea that Canadians can have plural cultural identities, a view I find problematic.)
All of this serves to weaken the book: it cuts off conversation, closes doors, and can easily push away a tentative reader who is genuinely coming to her seeking a better understanding of colonialism and their place in it.
(As an aside, I also occasionally lost the thread of her arguments – a more minor complaint, and something I blame as much on sloppy editing as anything else.)
An exception to my above criticisms is a lengthier chapter on “appropriation,” which ends up being a study on Indigenous knowledge, its importance, and the systems for safeguarding and transmitting it, and how this relates to responsibility and stewardship. It’s good stuff.
For yes, there is much of merit here as well. Maracle insists on placing herself at the centre of her own story (and likewise the Indigenous perspective at the centre of its own story), and indeed the part that hit home most for me was her argument against referring to Indigenous people as a "marginalized" group (a word that suggests they should ideally be brought into a settler "centre"). This refusal of the colonial/settler "centre" is incredibly effective at destabilizing the colonial perspective, of both the settler state and the setter mind. Maracle has a confidence and a self-possession that is truly impressive, and makes you listen.
She also presents an incisive critique of colonialism. She is not fooled by anything or anyone, and has sussed out the colonial project in all of its forms, past and present, insidious and residual. My only wish is that she had invited her reader in to revel in this critique along with her more often.
Oddly enough, the best section is one that is tacked on at the end, an untitled piece after the final “conversation.” It begins as a rambling discussion of the written word and turns into a poetic, intimate musing on dance – as both a necessary personal expression and a collective, spiritual, and distinctly Indigenous endeavour:
“I need it to know that I belong to a community, to my history, that I am more than a workwoman, a drudge, a survivor. I need it to know I have a cultural history, a cultural being worthy of presentation. I need to know I am present and presented. My body needs to know there is a direct connection between my origin and my current being. I need to know that there is greatness and glory in our history and that we are capable of creating artistic witness of ourselves in the context of history, that our lives are the subject that can and must birth beautiful art.”
Oh, if only the book had been filled with more of that!
October 18, 2020
It's important to listen. Especially when it's uncomfortable, and this was a really uncomfortable book to listen to because Lee Maracle has some tough, searing, and hard to refute things to say about colonization and the annoying tendency of White people like me to talk over an down to indigenous people like her. Her stories and arguments around the arts world didn't hold me as much, but she made good points about intellectual property and colonization, and made a really good argument about refusing the label of "marginalized" culture and refusing to recognize the colonizing culture as central. Thought-provoking, combative stuff.
**Thanks to the author, publisher, and NetGalley for a free copy in exchange for an honest review.
**Thanks to the author, publisher, and NetGalley for a free copy in exchange for an honest review.
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April 24, 2021"If you participate in dismantling the masters house and ending all forms of oppression, you are helping yourself."
From MY CONVERSATIONS WITH CANADIANS by Lee Maracle, 2017 by Book*Hug Press
#ReadtheWorld21 📍 Coast Salish / Stó:lō - unceded colonized region: British Columbia, Canada
In 13 essay "conversations", writer and educator Lee Maracle speaks directly to Canadians (and all readers) on the questions she has encountered in her 40+ years of public and professional life - In some ways the "wish I had said this at the time" opportunity to go back and expound on...
Maracle covers a lot of ground here - current issues ranging from basic terminology (Native, First Nations, Aboriginal...) to the effects of colonialism, racism, feminism, paternalism in Canadian society, and the cognitive dissonance of Canadians portraying themselves as "better"/ "nicer" when encountering racism: "To be a white Canadian is to be sunk in deep denial." She states in Conversation 2.
.
"So few Canadians knew who we were or how we were. It took awhile. It took a number of conversations with individual Canadians to get them to understand that a Sto:lo is as much like and Ojibway as a Frenchman is like a Russian."
.
The most thought-provoking piece (among so many in this book!) for me was in Conversation 10: Appropriation. Maracle speaks directly to knowledge transmission and orality, and the distinct difference of a European model built on written source material (documentary knowledge with little/no credence put in the oral word) and what her Coast Salish and many other Indigenous peoples followed for millennia - an oral tradition with memory and oral transmission held in the highest regard. Elders providing sustenance - both physical food and in knowledge - to the young. This is explored much deeper in her book MEMORY SERVES, which I also recently started reading.
Maracle's work spans from novels, poetry, to essays over several decades of work. Her most recent work is a collaborative poetry collection with her two daughters, HOPE MATTERS in 2019.
From MY CONVERSATIONS WITH CANADIANS by Lee Maracle, 2017 by Book*Hug Press
#ReadtheWorld21 📍 Coast Salish / Stó:lō - unceded colonized region: British Columbia, Canada
In 13 essay "conversations", writer and educator Lee Maracle speaks directly to Canadians (and all readers) on the questions she has encountered in her 40+ years of public and professional life - In some ways the "wish I had said this at the time" opportunity to go back and expound on...
Maracle covers a lot of ground here - current issues ranging from basic terminology (Native, First Nations, Aboriginal...) to the effects of colonialism, racism, feminism, paternalism in Canadian society, and the cognitive dissonance of Canadians portraying themselves as "better"/ "nicer" when encountering racism: "To be a white Canadian is to be sunk in deep denial." She states in Conversation 2.
.
"So few Canadians knew who we were or how we were. It took awhile. It took a number of conversations with individual Canadians to get them to understand that a Sto:lo is as much like and Ojibway as a Frenchman is like a Russian."
.
The most thought-provoking piece (among so many in this book!) for me was in Conversation 10: Appropriation. Maracle speaks directly to knowledge transmission and orality, and the distinct difference of a European model built on written source material (documentary knowledge with little/no credence put in the oral word) and what her Coast Salish and many other Indigenous peoples followed for millennia - an oral tradition with memory and oral transmission held in the highest regard. Elders providing sustenance - both physical food and in knowledge - to the young. This is explored much deeper in her book MEMORY SERVES, which I also recently started reading.
Maracle's work spans from novels, poetry, to essays over several decades of work. Her most recent work is a collaborative poetry collection with her two daughters, HOPE MATTERS in 2019.
June 13, 2020
"Canada views itself as the nicest colonizer in the world."
Maracle does not pull any punches in this series of conversations. And although they're not, and can't be, conversations in the traditional sense, Maracle uses that to her advantage. White Canadians historically have spoken for, and over Indigenous people. Maracle says, enough. You're going to listen to us now.
They are not nice or particularly comfortable conversations. But they are necessary ones.
Maracle does not pull any punches in this series of conversations. And although they're not, and can't be, conversations in the traditional sense, Maracle uses that to her advantage. White Canadians historically have spoken for, and over Indigenous people. Maracle says, enough. You're going to listen to us now.
They are not nice or particularly comfortable conversations. But they are necessary ones.
February 3, 2022
RIP Lee Maracle. You’ve left a legacy of your thoughts, words and actions. This is a book to be read and re-read, highlighted and shared. Brilliant!
November 26, 2021
This is a challenging book written by a Sto:lo woman who describes herself as an orator. Lee Maracle’s decision to refer to herself as an orator rather than a writer, storyteller or performance artist seems apt. My Conversations with Canadians is filled with oratorical flourishes. In this book, Maracle aims for high impact – often at the expense of either accuracy or consistency. She occasionally veers toward argument but almost always swings back into the domain of oratorical effect. While these flourishes make for dramatic reading, they inhibit clarity and understanding.
The challenge with this book is twofold.
First, it is unclear who Maracle considers her audience to be and what her objective is with respect to that audience? Given her cartoonish approach to “Canadians” and “Europeans” it seems unlikely she is hoping to communicate to individuals who might fall into these groupings. She consistently shows the same disrespect for others as she rails against when she feels herself to be its object. She wants to be viewed as a human being, an individual, but does not take that approach with “Canadians” or “Europeans” who are almost always portrayed as cookie-cutter incarnations of evil or mere stupidity.
People are not cartoon characters and Maracle knows this, sometimes. But most often Maracle takes an approach reminiscent of George W. Bush with his simplistic, “with us or against us” mentality. Except, with Maracle, you cannot be non-Indigenous and be with her. She recognizes (rightly insists upon) the differences between various Indigenous groups and their views and beliefs, but she refuses to acknowledge that any non-Indigenous persons could have views and experiences and understandings which differ from her own cartoonish, homogeneous portrayal of “whites” and their dim-witted venality.
An example. In the second chapter of the book, Maracle describes an incident that occurred around 2010 at the southeast corner of Spadina and Bloor in Toronto. She was sitting on a stone reading a paper when two young women approached her and offered her some cereal, a brand she didn’t recognize. Maracle was “a bit confused” but accepted the cereal because “it is an old Sto:lo belief that if someone offers you something, you take it”. Maracle goes on to say:
“A Canadian would have taken pains to explain that (she/I) was not homeless and refused the gift of cereal. Not so a Sto:lo. When a gift is offered, we graciously accept, particularly when it is food.”
Well, I am a Canadian. And I have sat at that same street corner many, many times. In fact, there is a reasonable chance I might have been sitting there sometime in 2010 when Maracle was there. I don’t recall being approached with offerings of cereal (probably a marketing effort by the health food store across the street) but if I had been my reaction would have been to check the ingredients for the sugar content. Diabetes runs in my family and I don’t eat sugared cereals. If the sugar content was low, I would have accepted the gift/marketing product. In any case, I would have thanked the women for their offer. And I would not have said anything about my housing situation.
It is that type of cheap shot at “Canadians” that comes up again and again in Maracle’s book. Given her open hostility for and disrespect to millions of people she doesn’t know, it is difficult to believe they are her intended audience.
So, then, who is Maracle’s intended audience? Presumably, it is Indigenous people in Canada and other people outside Canada, except Europeans. And what is her objective? To show them her anger and “inform” them of the reasons for that anger. This is unfortunate because Maracle’s book is filled with errors which some of that audience might take as truths.
A very simple example. Maracle states at the beginning of Chapter 6 that the term “Aboriginal” is offensive when applied to Indigenous peoples because “aboriginal” means “not original” and was applied to the Indigenous peoples of Canada because they are not identified in the Bible. Where Maracle got this idea is not clear; but it is nonsense. The word “aboriginal” means “from the beginning”. Applied to the First Nations and Inuit peoples of Canada it means they were here from the beginning. Maracle should have been pleased. She was not – because she was mistaken. This is a common problem in her book. It is unfortunate if others are misled by Maracle’s mistakes.
Another example. Maracle implies throughout almost all of her book that English Canada is Canada. It is not. Canada includes ten provinces and three territories. French is a prominent language in three provinces – Manitoba, Ontario and New Brunswick – and the dominant language in Quebec. Maracle appears oblivious to or uncaring of this important fact. Non-Canadian readers might possibly be misled by her attitude.
Many more examples could be provided. The book is riddled with errors and misleading statements. A more recent US President than George W. Bush comes to mind.
The second challenge arising from Maracle’s book is whether it is possible to find anything positive here?
The answer to that question is a qualified yes.
To start, one can take up Maracle’s demand that individuals be treated as human beings, not cartoon characters, and apply this rule to all people: Indigenous Canadians, non-Indigenous Canadians and non-Canadians.
Next, some of the statements Maracle puts forward are correct. An obvious one is that treaties between Indigenous groups and the British crown or Canadian government have more often been breached by the latter side than honoured. This is a dishonourable truth that needs to be remedied. And, slowly, some remedies are being established – either through political processes or legal processes. But good faith has yet to be shown on the Canadian side in the vast majority of cases.
That said, Maracle’s comments also invite a realistic assessment of what those treaties actually are because her characterization of them is vague and confusing, at best. Treaties are the result of political interactions between distinct political groups. The fact and terms of the treaties reflect an assessment of the interests, goals and power of the groups involved by the leaders of those groups at that time. There can be no doubt that treaties can be interpreted differently by either side (one need only look at the EU/UK Brexit agreements now being implemented). However, to suggest, as Maracle does, that one side was (or is) wholly benign and gracious and giving is spin – retrospective or otherwise.
Finally, Maracle points to the use of force against Indigenous people by the British and Canadian governments. There is no doubt about that. The Indigenous peoples of Canada are in their current situation because the British and Canadian governments had and continue to have the greater firepower. The treaties reflect this fact. So, a natural question, here in Canada and throughout the world (e.g. Palestine, Tibet, Crimea, Brazil, Guatemala, Mexico, Myanmar, etc.), is: what is the status of those overwhelmed by the use and/or the threat of force?
In Canada, in respect of Indigenous peoples, the answer is set out, in part, in treaties, the Canadian Constitution and Canadian laws. There is also the effect of international law, as well as the laws and conventions of the Indigenous groups. And there is the ongoing phenomenon known as politics. By its vehemence alone, My Conversations with Canadians invites further, deeper thought and discussions on these issues.
Lee Maracle died on 11 November 2021 at the age of 71. She wrote this book when she was in her sixties and had many years and a wide range of experience to draw on. Unfortunately, she failed to show the maturity and equanimity of an elder in this text. Rather, My Conversations with Canadians is clearly and intentionally a book written in anger. This is unfortunate. Anger can be an effective motivator but once the energy is in place the anger should step aside. Then clarity and understanding can come into play. They are largely absent from this book.
The challenge with this book is twofold.
First, it is unclear who Maracle considers her audience to be and what her objective is with respect to that audience? Given her cartoonish approach to “Canadians” and “Europeans” it seems unlikely she is hoping to communicate to individuals who might fall into these groupings. She consistently shows the same disrespect for others as she rails against when she feels herself to be its object. She wants to be viewed as a human being, an individual, but does not take that approach with “Canadians” or “Europeans” who are almost always portrayed as cookie-cutter incarnations of evil or mere stupidity.
People are not cartoon characters and Maracle knows this, sometimes. But most often Maracle takes an approach reminiscent of George W. Bush with his simplistic, “with us or against us” mentality. Except, with Maracle, you cannot be non-Indigenous and be with her. She recognizes (rightly insists upon) the differences between various Indigenous groups and their views and beliefs, but she refuses to acknowledge that any non-Indigenous persons could have views and experiences and understandings which differ from her own cartoonish, homogeneous portrayal of “whites” and their dim-witted venality.
An example. In the second chapter of the book, Maracle describes an incident that occurred around 2010 at the southeast corner of Spadina and Bloor in Toronto. She was sitting on a stone reading a paper when two young women approached her and offered her some cereal, a brand she didn’t recognize. Maracle was “a bit confused” but accepted the cereal because “it is an old Sto:lo belief that if someone offers you something, you take it”. Maracle goes on to say:
“A Canadian would have taken pains to explain that (she/I) was not homeless and refused the gift of cereal. Not so a Sto:lo. When a gift is offered, we graciously accept, particularly when it is food.”
Well, I am a Canadian. And I have sat at that same street corner many, many times. In fact, there is a reasonable chance I might have been sitting there sometime in 2010 when Maracle was there. I don’t recall being approached with offerings of cereal (probably a marketing effort by the health food store across the street) but if I had been my reaction would have been to check the ingredients for the sugar content. Diabetes runs in my family and I don’t eat sugared cereals. If the sugar content was low, I would have accepted the gift/marketing product. In any case, I would have thanked the women for their offer. And I would not have said anything about my housing situation.
It is that type of cheap shot at “Canadians” that comes up again and again in Maracle’s book. Given her open hostility for and disrespect to millions of people she doesn’t know, it is difficult to believe they are her intended audience.
So, then, who is Maracle’s intended audience? Presumably, it is Indigenous people in Canada and other people outside Canada, except Europeans. And what is her objective? To show them her anger and “inform” them of the reasons for that anger. This is unfortunate because Maracle’s book is filled with errors which some of that audience might take as truths.
A very simple example. Maracle states at the beginning of Chapter 6 that the term “Aboriginal” is offensive when applied to Indigenous peoples because “aboriginal” means “not original” and was applied to the Indigenous peoples of Canada because they are not identified in the Bible. Where Maracle got this idea is not clear; but it is nonsense. The word “aboriginal” means “from the beginning”. Applied to the First Nations and Inuit peoples of Canada it means they were here from the beginning. Maracle should have been pleased. She was not – because she was mistaken. This is a common problem in her book. It is unfortunate if others are misled by Maracle’s mistakes.
Another example. Maracle implies throughout almost all of her book that English Canada is Canada. It is not. Canada includes ten provinces and three territories. French is a prominent language in three provinces – Manitoba, Ontario and New Brunswick – and the dominant language in Quebec. Maracle appears oblivious to or uncaring of this important fact. Non-Canadian readers might possibly be misled by her attitude.
Many more examples could be provided. The book is riddled with errors and misleading statements. A more recent US President than George W. Bush comes to mind.
The second challenge arising from Maracle’s book is whether it is possible to find anything positive here?
The answer to that question is a qualified yes.
To start, one can take up Maracle’s demand that individuals be treated as human beings, not cartoon characters, and apply this rule to all people: Indigenous Canadians, non-Indigenous Canadians and non-Canadians.
Next, some of the statements Maracle puts forward are correct. An obvious one is that treaties between Indigenous groups and the British crown or Canadian government have more often been breached by the latter side than honoured. This is a dishonourable truth that needs to be remedied. And, slowly, some remedies are being established – either through political processes or legal processes. But good faith has yet to be shown on the Canadian side in the vast majority of cases.
That said, Maracle’s comments also invite a realistic assessment of what those treaties actually are because her characterization of them is vague and confusing, at best. Treaties are the result of political interactions between distinct political groups. The fact and terms of the treaties reflect an assessment of the interests, goals and power of the groups involved by the leaders of those groups at that time. There can be no doubt that treaties can be interpreted differently by either side (one need only look at the EU/UK Brexit agreements now being implemented). However, to suggest, as Maracle does, that one side was (or is) wholly benign and gracious and giving is spin – retrospective or otherwise.
Finally, Maracle points to the use of force against Indigenous people by the British and Canadian governments. There is no doubt about that. The Indigenous peoples of Canada are in their current situation because the British and Canadian governments had and continue to have the greater firepower. The treaties reflect this fact. So, a natural question, here in Canada and throughout the world (e.g. Palestine, Tibet, Crimea, Brazil, Guatemala, Mexico, Myanmar, etc.), is: what is the status of those overwhelmed by the use and/or the threat of force?
In Canada, in respect of Indigenous peoples, the answer is set out, in part, in treaties, the Canadian Constitution and Canadian laws. There is also the effect of international law, as well as the laws and conventions of the Indigenous groups. And there is the ongoing phenomenon known as politics. By its vehemence alone, My Conversations with Canadians invites further, deeper thought and discussions on these issues.
Lee Maracle died on 11 November 2021 at the age of 71. She wrote this book when she was in her sixties and had many years and a wide range of experience to draw on. Unfortunately, she failed to show the maturity and equanimity of an elder in this text. Rather, My Conversations with Canadians is clearly and intentionally a book written in anger. This is unfortunate. Anger can be an effective motivator but once the energy is in place the anger should step aside. Then clarity and understanding can come into play. They are largely absent from this book.
March 3, 2018
I loved this book. When I finished it, my first reaction was that I wanted to read it again. I first started reading Lee Maracle's fiction over two decades ago, and this is her first book addressing directly those of us who are settlers, or non-indigenous Canadians, and it is straight talk that may be uncomfortable for some, and difficult to read. She talks about the need for us white settlers to give up our seat on the Knower's Chair (where we get to decide what is true knowledge), and she talks about the importance of story in the Sto:Loh culture, and much more. Her chapter on cultural appropriation is one of the best and most detailed I have read, laying out clearly what happens when white people steal cultural knowledge from indigenous people. Of course I loved the chapter entitled Hamilton (where I live) about a conversation that happened here. I will read the book again and think more about the many issues she touches on, including reconciliation (how can you have reconciliation when there was never conciliation?), and I will leave you with her answer when asked by a white man "what is reconciliation to you" her answer was "well, stop killing us would be a good place to begin".
December 29, 2018
Lee Maracle is one of these thinkers and writers, who you want to meet and talk to from time to time at least. She is wise, highly knowledgeable and always thought provoking. The collection of essays, "My conversations with Canadians" is the next best experience to meeting Lee in person. They are perceptive, witty, sometimes ironic and provocative and always worth your reflection and self-questioning. Give yourself time to read these conversations one at a time, and then more than once.
October 7, 2024
If I recommend any book this year, let it be this one. With September 30th just having passed in Canada, I am grateful to have had the chance to read one of Lee Maracle’s beautiful works of written literature. In these conversations, Maracle quickly captivates the reader, sets boundaries, and begins taking them on a journey of teachings that should not be glossed over in Canada but so often are. This is a book that opens up about the beauty of Indigenous life and the continuous strength and connection that it holds to the land, even after the ongoing attempted genocide and colonization of Indigenous people in Canada. Maracle masterfully stresses the need for this knowledge of Indigenous history, both in and outside of a colonial context, and generously passes it on in the context of this book. There is so much beauty and power here that it achieves exactly what it sets out to do—it challenges the reader’s beliefs and their stance on the world, just by sharing personal experience.
It’s not every day I come across a work of art so perfectly crafted that it makes me pause and wonder how so much emotion can be evoked from something that, on the surface, feels simple. But that’s what happens when the writing is grounded in authenticity and the security of the author’s own being. The passion and pain come through in such a raw and true way, creating one of the most immersive, welcoming, and protected spaces a reader could ever experience. To read this book is to sit back and truly listen to Lee Maracle’s words, and to feel the life and history that breathe through them all the way through. Better yet, reading this book makes you want and need to understand what it really means to be Canadian, and what that title means for settlers, too.
It’s not every day I come across a work of art so perfectly crafted that it makes me pause and wonder how so much emotion can be evoked from something that, on the surface, feels simple. But that’s what happens when the writing is grounded in authenticity and the security of the author’s own being. The passion and pain come through in such a raw and true way, creating one of the most immersive, welcoming, and protected spaces a reader could ever experience. To read this book is to sit back and truly listen to Lee Maracle’s words, and to feel the life and history that breathe through them all the way through. Better yet, reading this book makes you want and need to understand what it really means to be Canadian, and what that title means for settlers, too.
January 9, 2018
I want to give Maracle's new book an "excellent" review as I learned a great deal, and I am tempted, however the book is inconsistent and in all honesty merited 3 stars for "I liked it". Her wisdom as a Sto:lo shines through and this is definitely worth the read (5 stars) however these moments were unfortunately intermingled with a mixed bag of beliefs and unsupported statements (presented as fact). Perhaps some of these statements are based in reality, it is difficult to say as there are no sources provided. One example (on p.129) Maracle states that scientists stole the DNA of First Nation's and when they challenged the ownership of their DNA in court, they lost their case. This seemed quite appalling but a quick search on-line provided no evidence of this legal case so I don't know whether this statement is based in fact or is a completely erroneous belief. Opinions without more substance devalue an honest and candid conversation which is what Maracle states she wants with Canadians. It is important to engage in this conversation, in fact it is absolutely necessary after the findings and recommendations of the Indian Residential Schools Truth and Reconciliation Commission so I do recommend the book ... I just advocate keeping a very open mind while also maintaining a corresponding curiosity to investigate what doesn't "fit" your understanding of the world. Like any excellent conversation which engages individuals about issues of importance, there needs to be respectful communication and connection and I hope that Maracle's aims in this regard are realized.
October 20, 2020
I read this book right after reading a very American focused book CASTE The origins of Our Discontents. By Isabel Wilkerson.
This book should be mandatory reading for all Canadians!
It book shines a floodlight on the plight both past and present on the First Nation individuals and communities.
At present there is A dispute over Mi’kmaq fishing rights in southwestern Nova Scotia escalated this past week into violence, destruction and eventually an angry mob attack on Indigenous-used fishing pounds.
In light of the facts laid out in her book you can see a clear claim and right for Mi’kmaq to fish in the waters.
This book should be mandatory reading for all Canadians!
It book shines a floodlight on the plight both past and present on the First Nation individuals and communities.
At present there is A dispute over Mi’kmaq fishing rights in southwestern Nova Scotia escalated this past week into violence, destruction and eventually an angry mob attack on Indigenous-used fishing pounds.
In light of the facts laid out in her book you can see a clear claim and right for Mi’kmaq to fish in the waters.
February 16, 2023
This is one of those books every Canadian of settler origins should read to learn how to be a better human on stolen territory. Lee Maracle is legendary.
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June 7, 2018A short, hard-hitting book by famous Sto:lo author Lee Maracle. In her many years as a novelist, sometime-performance poet, and all-around storyteller, she has spent a lot of time speaking with Canadians both in front of an audience and one-on-one. The pieces in this book start from the questions, ideas, and conversations she has most often had to reply to over those years. As such, it covers a lot of ground. The answers are blunt and clear and filled with hard truths that settlers need to hear. They sometimes took to-me unexpected directions, mind you, but I think that's about Maracle staying grounded in giving the answers that make sense to *her*. And it's a strength born of trauma and hard necessity, no doubt, but I'm amazed by her capacity to respond to all sorts of colonial ignorance and disrespect in ways that make it clear that she has no doubts whatsoever about who she is and what her values are. Some of her responses I found particularly powerful, like her contextualization of appropriation, but it's all stuff that all of us who are not Indigenous need to be reading, thinking about, and working hard to take up.
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July 14, 2022I'm one of those readers who puts off reading something because I know it's going to be so good that I'll be disappointed and even sad when it's over. This was a book that I'd saved on Scribd when I first subscribed to the platform years and years ago.
It's a short audio book (about 5 hours), but I'm elated that I spent those five hours listening to Maracle's nonfiction work about her awful and ridiculous conversations with Canadians.
While I was listening to this collection, I felt enraged for Maracle and people from Indigenous communities. I felt frustrated with her and the people who were in Canada before colonizers came and stole the land. I felt disappointed because-I don't know what other mixed people have gone through living in Canada with Caucasian Canadian relatives-I can tell you that I've always felt that Canadians are some of the most racist people I've ever encountered . . . Some of those people I'm related to.
I don't feel proud of Canada or its people. I don't feel Canadian (whatever that means), and I certainly don't feel welcome in Canada. So imagine my surprise when Maracle so clearly and eloquently conveyed the emotions I've always felt deep down inside but haven't ever been able to express. For that, I'll be eternally grateful to Maracle for publishing such a raw and honest book.
This book is one of the most important books that you'll read because Maracle so expertly tells you why Canada and Canadians take racism to a level that's so disturbing regarding their complicity in the country's most ambitious genocidal project: residential schools. So the next time you start to dream about Canada as an idyllic, cultural melting pot where we treat everyone equally, and are oh, so kind, give your head a shake. We aren't living in a post-colonial country. We're living in a place much, much worse.
I'm going to listen to this again because I'm making my partner listen to it. He's Irish, but he still has to listen to it. We all have to.
[Audio book, Scribd]
It's a short audio book (about 5 hours), but I'm elated that I spent those five hours listening to Maracle's nonfiction work about her awful and ridiculous conversations with Canadians.
While I was listening to this collection, I felt enraged for Maracle and people from Indigenous communities. I felt frustrated with her and the people who were in Canada before colonizers came and stole the land. I felt disappointed because-I don't know what other mixed people have gone through living in Canada with Caucasian Canadian relatives-I can tell you that I've always felt that Canadians are some of the most racist people I've ever encountered . . . Some of those people I'm related to.
I don't feel proud of Canada or its people. I don't feel Canadian (whatever that means), and I certainly don't feel welcome in Canada. So imagine my surprise when Maracle so clearly and eloquently conveyed the emotions I've always felt deep down inside but haven't ever been able to express. For that, I'll be eternally grateful to Maracle for publishing such a raw and honest book.
This book is one of the most important books that you'll read because Maracle so expertly tells you why Canada and Canadians take racism to a level that's so disturbing regarding their complicity in the country's most ambitious genocidal project: residential schools. So the next time you start to dream about Canada as an idyllic, cultural melting pot where we treat everyone equally, and are oh, so kind, give your head a shake. We aren't living in a post-colonial country. We're living in a place much, much worse.
I'm going to listen to this again because I'm making my partner listen to it. He's Irish, but he still has to listen to it. We all have to.
[Audio book, Scribd]
December 11, 2018
Imperative reading for Canadians. Maracle doesn't hold back in her correct critique of the colonial country of Canada. Tackling major topics like cultural appropriations, intersectionality, colonialism, decolonization and reconciliation, she outlines in a series of essays how Indigenous communities are still facing trauma and concerns that aren't being addressed...especially in the shadow of "Canada 150".
June 28, 2022
Brilliant! Pointed observations on the disparities between the myths on which white Canada bases their perceptions of themselves, their country’s history and their values versus what indigenous people’s experiences with this land’s settlers actually are. Maracle pulls no punches as she dissects white Canada’s and white women’s actions over the centuries since Europeans hit North America’s shores.
October 17, 2019
Brilliant, insightful, full of well-told stories that deeply root the true histories of Indigenous Peoples in North America. This book undid some of the Eurocentric skew I had learned in history and anthropology texts of yore. Highly recommend to all Canadians, in particular.
October 14, 2022
This book is necessary, provocative, and powerful. Necessary, because of our dire need to hear from Indigenous storytellers. Provocative, because through reading, I am reminded of my own active participation in colonialism. And powerful, because it stirs and moves you to transform.
My Conversation with Canadians discusses what it means to be Canadian, challenges the notion that Canadians are "nice", the legacy of the government of Canada since its inception to the present day, how we use language when we speak to and about Indigenous peoples and cultures, what appropriation is, the importance of song and dance and so much more; narrating it all with conviction, humour, joy, and (entirely justified) rage.
A little passage from Conversation 8 that I loved:
"People will often ask: "Why don't they move?" [regarding Indigenous and First Nations people in Canada being burdened with challenging living circumstances of the colonial government, such as not having clean drinking water] "I get that, that was your solution to oppression everywhere in the world-- move right away. I. Am. Outta. Here. It is not ours... [But] we are responsible for the land we have been on for thousands of years. We cannot relinquish our responsibility. We are the land's caretakers... Some Indigenous people wish Canadians would move back to their original homelands. Not me. I wish they would fall in love with the land the way I have: fully, responsibly and committed for life."
Lee Maracle said that Susan Blight's words: "It is not about our knowledge fitting into yours. Decolonization is about how you fit into us." helped her piece together a lot that she's been learning and I believe it did the same for me too.
Let this book be a vital part of your decolonization, your learning and unlearning, and a reminder that we all must do better-- A must-read for every settler.
My Conversation with Canadians discusses what it means to be Canadian, challenges the notion that Canadians are "nice", the legacy of the government of Canada since its inception to the present day, how we use language when we speak to and about Indigenous peoples and cultures, what appropriation is, the importance of song and dance and so much more; narrating it all with conviction, humour, joy, and (entirely justified) rage.
A little passage from Conversation 8 that I loved:
"People will often ask: "Why don't they move?" [regarding Indigenous and First Nations people in Canada being burdened with challenging living circumstances of the colonial government, such as not having clean drinking water] "I get that, that was your solution to oppression everywhere in the world-- move right away. I. Am. Outta. Here. It is not ours... [But] we are responsible for the land we have been on for thousands of years. We cannot relinquish our responsibility. We are the land's caretakers... Some Indigenous people wish Canadians would move back to their original homelands. Not me. I wish they would fall in love with the land the way I have: fully, responsibly and committed for life."
Lee Maracle said that Susan Blight's words: "It is not about our knowledge fitting into yours. Decolonization is about how you fit into us." helped her piece together a lot that she's been learning and I believe it did the same for me too.
Let this book be a vital part of your decolonization, your learning and unlearning, and a reminder that we all must do better-- A must-read for every settler.
January 20, 2024
As a settler, I will never understand the impact and importance of Lee Maracle and her word work to Indigenous writers.
I did not have the good fortune to hear Maracle speak in life (she died in September 2021), but her books have been on my to-read list for some time.
Maracle was a word worker, writer and academic of the Stó꞉lō nation, First Nations people who inhabit the Fraser Valley and lower Fraser Canyon of British Columbia, Canada, and who are part of the Coast Salish nations. They are people with a strong oral storytelling tradition in which Maracle was raised.
Part of her work, including My Conversations with Canadians engages with the importance of oral traditions and advocates that those ways of knowing and remembering are due more significance than they have been traditionally accorded in the west.
Other conversational topics include colonialism and reconciliation, appropriation, labour, law, intellectual property, prejudice and the value of dance and song to long-term health (giving you a topic summary doesn't do them justice).
The conversations are challenging, direct addresses laced with Maracle's humour. If you're interested in learning more about Indigenous perspectives and challenging your own biases, I recommend it.
I did not have the good fortune to hear Maracle speak in life (she died in September 2021), but her books have been on my to-read list for some time.
Maracle was a word worker, writer and academic of the Stó꞉lō nation, First Nations people who inhabit the Fraser Valley and lower Fraser Canyon of British Columbia, Canada, and who are part of the Coast Salish nations. They are people with a strong oral storytelling tradition in which Maracle was raised.
Part of her work, including My Conversations with Canadians engages with the importance of oral traditions and advocates that those ways of knowing and remembering are due more significance than they have been traditionally accorded in the west.
Other conversational topics include colonialism and reconciliation, appropriation, labour, law, intellectual property, prejudice and the value of dance and song to long-term health (giving you a topic summary doesn't do them justice).
The conversations are challenging, direct addresses laced with Maracle's humour. If you're interested in learning more about Indigenous perspectives and challenging your own biases, I recommend it.
Read
October 15, 2020I enjoyed listening to this audiobook. I find nonfiction in first person very easy to follow along as it feels like someone is talking to you, especially when the nonfiction is a more personal piece of work. My Conversations With Canadians by Lee Maracle is a very thought provoking book. I don't think I'm well versed enough in different Indigenous issues to attest to how accurate each of the statements are, but I think it brings up interesting perspectives that challenge conventional thought. As a reader, this seems to be Lee Maracle's intention, as our idea of conventional thought regarding Indigenous culture stems from white perspectives, which are so inaccurate. We need to subvert these ingrained thoughts if we are going to do any proper reconciliation in Canada that goes beyond nice words. Overall, I enjoyed this short audiobook. It has questioned a lot of perspectives that I've never questioned before.
Thank you NetGalley for providing this audiobook for an honest review.
Thank you NetGalley for providing this audiobook for an honest review.
October 19, 2024
Every chapter and every paragraph is a desperate attempt by a has-been in trying to convince herself and her readers that she belongs to something great, despite coming from a lineage of losers, addicts, failures. Passage after passage is holier-than-thou preaching, praise of herself and of her daughter. She tries to tell you she is so great and she references snarky comebacks and borderline hateful comments towards anyone who's been kind to her as proof of this.
It's an embarrassing piece of literature, and an embarrassing piece of the indigenous canon. Maracle Lee is an example of how the system fails when you reward identity over merit. This was a 0/5 read for me and i struggled to get through it, but I read it as a part of the tpl reading challenve and whatever. 3 hours of wasted time on hateful rhetoric
It's an embarrassing piece of literature, and an embarrassing piece of the indigenous canon. Maracle Lee is an example of how the system fails when you reward identity over merit. This was a 0/5 read for me and i struggled to get through it, but I read it as a part of the tpl reading challenve and whatever. 3 hours of wasted time on hateful rhetoric
November 27, 2019
This author speaks very directly to the issues with reconciliation. I had many 'aha' moments like when she told how settler appropriation of Indigenous stories is theft. It finally made sense. I also now agree that the treatment of Indigenous people in Canada was genocide. She's angry, but writes clearly and eloquently.
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June 12, 2021DNF 29% only because I’m looking for books that go in-depth to specific issues rather than intro/101 books. What I listened to of this one was great and I would recommend for people new to the topics discussed.
May 9, 2022
To be honest I remember nothing and it was boring. I couldn't tell you what was written in this I feel bad because maybe I just didn't listen, but even when I tried to read it I was bored.
March 19, 2021
All settlers in Canada should read this book. Maracle is so powerful and commanding with her voice, and she isn’t afraid to confront the truth of canada’s settler-colonial society. Reading this has helped give me a better understanding of what Indigenous people on turtle island experience daily.
January 30, 2025
A book every Canadian should read and understand their place as a settler and guest on turtle island.
October 22, 2023
Maracle offered a lot to think about in this slim volume.
This series of essays is based around questions Maracle has been asked at book signings/readings across Canada since the publication of her first novel in the 1970s. Most of these questions came from white folks ignorant about their own country's ongoing history of colonialism, and about Indigenous histories and cultures. Maracle tackles these questions, as well as some of the questions that Canadians conspicuously don't ask, such as why there is not a strong movement of support in Canada for Indigenous land sovereignty. This book is a witty inditement of Canada's myth of itself as benevolent. Maracle answers racist question/assumption after racist question/assumption with with more grace than any of them deserve.
Maracle offered a lot to think about in this slim volume.
Maracle's language around transness in the chapter on gender is dated, but her intent is good.
Love the quote from Susan Blight: "It's not about our knowledge kitting into yours - decolonization is about how you fit into us."
This series of essays is based around questions Maracle has been asked at book signings/readings across Canada since the publication of her first novel in the 1970s. Most of these questions came from white folks ignorant about their own country's ongoing history of colonialism, and about Indigenous histories and cultures. Maracle tackles these questions, as well as some of the questions that Canadians conspicuously don't ask, such as why there is not a strong movement of support in Canada for Indigenous land sovereignty. This book is a witty inditement of Canada's myth of itself as benevolent. Maracle answers racist question/assumption after racist question/assumption with with more grace than any of them deserve.
Maracle offered a lot to think about in this slim volume.
Maracle's language around transness in the chapter on gender is dated, but her intent is good.
Love the quote from Susan Blight: "It's not about our knowledge kitting into yours - decolonization is about how you fit into us."
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