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天下大亂: 川普政府的中國政策，其形成、矛盾與內幕
The explosive, behind-the-scenes story of Donald Trump’s high-stakes confrontation with Beijing, from an award-winning Washington Post columnist and peerless observer of the U.S.–China relationship There was no calm before the storm. Donald Trump’s surprise electoral victory shattered the fragile understanding between Washington and Beijing, putting the most important relationship of the twenty-first century in the hands of a novice who had bitterly attacked China from the campaign trail. Almost as soon as he entered office, Trump brought to a boil the long-simmering rivalry between the two countries, while also striking up a “friendship” with Chinese president Xi Jinping — whose manipulations of his American counterpart would undermine the White House’s already disjointed response to the historic challenge of a rising China. All the while, Trump’s own officials fought to steer U.S. policy from within. By the time the COVID-19 pandemic erupted in Wuhan, Trump’s love-hate relationship with Xi had sparked a trade war, while Xi’s aggression had pushed the world to the brink of a new Cold War. But their quarrel had also forced a long-overdue reckoning within the United States over China’s audacious foreign-influence operations, horrific human rights abuses, and creeping digital despotism. Ironically, this awakening was one of the biggest foreign-policy victories of Trump’s fractious term in office. Filled with shocking revelations drawn from Josh Rogin’s unparalleled access to top U.S. officials from the White House and deep within the country’s foreign policy machine, Chaos Under Heaven reveals an administration at war with itself during perhaps our most urgent hour.
381 pages, Kindle Edition
Published September 29, 2021
322 people are currently reading
1647 people want to read
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 81 reviews
April 10, 2021
As a political book it got a decent review from someone I respect, but it turned out to be dud. For the most part it is just an anti-Trump book. Yes, it does occasionally points out Obama’s buffooneries in dealing with China, Iran and climate change. However, the author is constantly pulling out the daggers with the Trump comments to the point it is just a distraction. He often harps on Trumps billionaire friends, but it was not like Obama had his own billionaire friends in Soros, Buffett and Bezos pulling strings and supporting him politically. Even Biden has access to the same players.
I guess I expected too much. The book could have been really great if the author was not so focused on bad mouthing Trump whenever he had a chance. What was really irritating is most of the book is just commentary, as very little info is supported by any facts or sources. Sorry, but I cannot recommend this book to anyone.
I guess I expected too much. The book could have been really great if the author was not so focused on bad mouthing Trump whenever he had a chance. What was really irritating is most of the book is just commentary, as very little info is supported by any facts or sources. Sorry, but I cannot recommend this book to anyone.
March 21, 2021
Excellent piece of investigative journalism and foreign policy analysis. In depth and comprehensive. Just the kind of work that was needed to illuminate this hitherto understudied subject. I hope the current administration will consider its arguments as it formulates its policy towards China.
September 13, 2021
“But this latest laptop gambit ended up falling flat because most of the mainstream media refused to cover it, still feeling burned after being used as a tool of Russian email hacking and dumping during the 2016 election cycle.”
No, the msm didn’t cover the Hunter laptop story bc they wanted Biden to win.
Russia’s pitiful Facebook memes and hackers releasing the true emails of the DNC had nothing to with their lack of coverage.
Additionally, Rogin’s notion that the Trump administration wasn’t blocked by so many in the DeepState apparatus is risible. Evidence: the long running investigations, the anonymous leaks, the signed letter by the Intel experts claiming Hunter’s laptop was a Russian disinformation campaign, and the false Russian aghan bounty.
Otherwise, Rogin’s book is a thorough and biting analysis of just how dangerous China is.
China is Russia with far more people, and far more money after its renunciation of socialism. A money supply that makes it able to compromise America with the hope of massive profits from its 1.4billion person market.
Russia tried to fight America with proxy wars and build ups of missiles; China, instead, is using the lure of capitalism. This tactic is proving far more dangerous.
America’s mistake is believing that other countries— be they Muslim or communist—want the freedoms and liberty we have.
These countries and these people do not, as evidenced by Russia’s long walk away from its bloodless Revolution after Gorbachev.
These countries want to rule. They want their power, their position. That is all. They have no interest in constitutions.
No, the msm didn’t cover the Hunter laptop story bc they wanted Biden to win.
Russia’s pitiful Facebook memes and hackers releasing the true emails of the DNC had nothing to with their lack of coverage.
Additionally, Rogin’s notion that the Trump administration wasn’t blocked by so many in the DeepState apparatus is risible. Evidence: the long running investigations, the anonymous leaks, the signed letter by the Intel experts claiming Hunter’s laptop was a Russian disinformation campaign, and the false Russian aghan bounty.
Otherwise, Rogin’s book is a thorough and biting analysis of just how dangerous China is.
China is Russia with far more people, and far more money after its renunciation of socialism. A money supply that makes it able to compromise America with the hope of massive profits from its 1.4billion person market.
Russia tried to fight America with proxy wars and build ups of missiles; China, instead, is using the lure of capitalism. This tactic is proving far more dangerous.
America’s mistake is believing that other countries— be they Muslim or communist—want the freedoms and liberty we have.
These countries and these people do not, as evidenced by Russia’s long walk away from its bloodless Revolution after Gorbachev.
These countries want to rule. They want their power, their position. That is all. They have no interest in constitutions.
May 25, 2023
This is one of the best and most eye opening books that I have read this year. I absolutely flew through it. It is written by a journalist that contributed first hand with articles and research on the threat posed by China and personally participated in many US-China public events detailed in the book. The book is a must read for anyone interested in the topic!
The level of Chinese infiltration and influence in the US establishment is astounding. The title of the book is a bit misleading, in the sense that it covers the period of the Trump presidency but it is focused on a lot more than just the Trump-Xi relationship. Rather it covers all of the Chinese tactics to gain primacy in the World and cover its domestic abuses by bribing, lobbying, spying and subverting the United States.
Below is a summary of the main ideas in the book. This summary is more for myself so that I can refer back to it if I ever need to.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prior to the Trump administration the US turned a blind eye to all of the Chinese abuses and illegal operations. Obama had signed a deal with the Chinese to stop IP theft but the Chinese never actually respected it and on its way out the Obama administration had actually agreed to respect China's sphere of influence and cohabitate with the new world power. Basically negotiations took priority and China's malign behaviour was swept under the rug. It was the Trump administration's merit that the US finally woke up to the threat that China poses to the global order and started heeding many of the experts that had been warning about this threat for years but had been ignored by previous administrations.
The problem during the Trump administration was that there were two camps inside the White House. There were the China hawks that wanted the US to get tough on China, impose sanctions and trade tariffs and push back but there were also the China friendlies such as various trade officials and corporate executives that benefited from the China trade and business and wanted the relations to stay warm. Trump was constantly see sawing between these two groups favouring one or the other depending on what the matter of the day was.
Trump's main goal was to strike a deal with China in order to improve the American standing. However, his issue was that he did not understand the difference between trade issues and national security issues. Trade was something that could be negotiated on but he constantly mixed the two up and made concessions on national security issues. Xi Jinping took advantage of this and managed to get numerous benefits from his relationship with Trump without giving anything away. Trump called Xi his friend and made numerous remarks supporting Xi's genocidal and repressive policies in Xinjiang and Hong Kong. The US was constantly at a disadvantage during the trade negotiations due to Trump's poor handling of Xi, his belief in a close personal relationship and his general misunderstanding of China's actions and strategies.
Trump eventually came to the side of the hawks and imposed tariffs launching a trade war which may have hurt the US manufacturing sector but at the same time signalled to China that they could no longer do as they please. The US starting cracking down on Chinese spy operations, on technology theft, on influence operations in academia and even Chinese financing on Wall Street.
The Covid pandemic was the final straw in the US-China relationship. China knew about the virus early on but did not share information, destroyed evidence, silenced doctors and influenced the WHO. The Trump administration initially believed China's explanations but eventually realised that they were being played and took a tough stance stopping travel to China. At this early point the Democratic party accused the Trump administration of racism and even blocked bills which were tough on China purely for political reasons because they did not want to appear to agree with Trump publicly. The roles reversed towards the end of the Trump Presidency when the poor response of the administration to the pandemic led to electoral loss.
The Biden presidency actually continued the tough stance of China but tried to formulate a more coherent overall China strategy rather than the scattered approach during the Trump presidency.
Examples of Chinese infiltration and influence operations include:
- infiltrating American universities and coopting US academics and students in various programs to promote CCP propaganda but also stealing information and research. The CCP financed numerous US universities and academics in order to gain access to their research and to promote their world view.
- the CCP established their own student bodies inside US universities which acted in the interests of China and for example organised boycotts of a University which welcomed the Dalai Lama. Chinese students also were encouraged to spy and report on their colleagues that spoke ill of China
- Chinese businesses could not list their companies on US stock exchanges because they do not follow US accounting practices. They circumvented these rules on Wall Street by buying already listed companies and using them for their own purposes. In this way Chinese companies stole billions of dollars from unsuspecting US investors which had no recourse against them inside or outside of China.
- Establishing relations through businessmen directly with local US politicians in order to create local influence networks and bypass the security safety nets at higher level of government. Then using these networks in order to block or push legislation according to China's interests.
- Sponsoring US officials, diplomats and low level politicians for multiple trips to China in order to influence them and use them to build up China's public image
The Chinese infiltration in the US establishment, political and business community includes:
- Rupert Murdoch's ex-wife Wendi Dong was a suspected Chinese agent, she was also best friends with the Kushner family and placed a Chinese nanny in the Kushner household. US security services had warned the Kushners about the security risks posed but they chose to ignore it. Prior to the marriage, Murdoch's children were worried that Wendi was placed to influence their father. But after he divorced her Murdoch himself has come out and said that he believed that Wendi was indeed a Chinese agent.
- Mitch McConnel's ex-wife Elaine Chao was a US Transportation Secretary in the Trump administration had deep ties with Chinese business and the CCP. She lobbied on behalf of the Chinese government even though she was a US government official and went so far as to ask advice from Americans on how the Chinese government should respond to Trump.
- Neil Bush ran a foundation which lobbied and promoted Chinese businesses in the US
- Jimmy Carter and Henry Kissinger lobbied on behalf of China and whitewashed the CCP crimes and human rights abuses, for example Kissinger criticised people that wanted to protest against the Uyghur repression during the Beijing sports events
- The investment chief of CalPERS, the retirement fund of the state of California with over $400 billion of assets Yu Ben Meng funnelled unsuspecting US investor money into Chinese companies including defence companies and companies that were involved in human rights abuses
- Dr. Jim Yong Kim, a Korean-born US academic the Obama administration appointed to the World Bank acted as a promoter of Chinese interests and approved large amounts of World Bank investment in the development of China
- Joe Biden's brother and son had businesses and financial interests in China working directly with several Chinese investment companies and providing advice to them. Hunter Biden was directly accused of taking bribes in favour of Chinese companies.
- Steve Bannon ran a joint news show with Chinese billionaire and self-declared dissident Guo Wengui. However, it was later revealed that Guo fiercely attacked and hunted other Chinese dissidents and it is suspected that he was in fact working covertly for the CCP. This news included the Hunter Biden laptop story which was heavily promoted by Guo's news network raising some suspicions of Chinese involvement
The level of Chinese infiltration and influence in the US establishment is astounding. The title of the book is a bit misleading, in the sense that it covers the period of the Trump presidency but it is focused on a lot more than just the Trump-Xi relationship. Rather it covers all of the Chinese tactics to gain primacy in the World and cover its domestic abuses by bribing, lobbying, spying and subverting the United States.
Below is a summary of the main ideas in the book. This summary is more for myself so that I can refer back to it if I ever need to.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prior to the Trump administration the US turned a blind eye to all of the Chinese abuses and illegal operations. Obama had signed a deal with the Chinese to stop IP theft but the Chinese never actually respected it and on its way out the Obama administration had actually agreed to respect China's sphere of influence and cohabitate with the new world power. Basically negotiations took priority and China's malign behaviour was swept under the rug. It was the Trump administration's merit that the US finally woke up to the threat that China poses to the global order and started heeding many of the experts that had been warning about this threat for years but had been ignored by previous administrations.
The problem during the Trump administration was that there were two camps inside the White House. There were the China hawks that wanted the US to get tough on China, impose sanctions and trade tariffs and push back but there were also the China friendlies such as various trade officials and corporate executives that benefited from the China trade and business and wanted the relations to stay warm. Trump was constantly see sawing between these two groups favouring one or the other depending on what the matter of the day was.
Trump's main goal was to strike a deal with China in order to improve the American standing. However, his issue was that he did not understand the difference between trade issues and national security issues. Trade was something that could be negotiated on but he constantly mixed the two up and made concessions on national security issues. Xi Jinping took advantage of this and managed to get numerous benefits from his relationship with Trump without giving anything away. Trump called Xi his friend and made numerous remarks supporting Xi's genocidal and repressive policies in Xinjiang and Hong Kong. The US was constantly at a disadvantage during the trade negotiations due to Trump's poor handling of Xi, his belief in a close personal relationship and his general misunderstanding of China's actions and strategies.
Trump eventually came to the side of the hawks and imposed tariffs launching a trade war which may have hurt the US manufacturing sector but at the same time signalled to China that they could no longer do as they please. The US starting cracking down on Chinese spy operations, on technology theft, on influence operations in academia and even Chinese financing on Wall Street.
The Covid pandemic was the final straw in the US-China relationship. China knew about the virus early on but did not share information, destroyed evidence, silenced doctors and influenced the WHO. The Trump administration initially believed China's explanations but eventually realised that they were being played and took a tough stance stopping travel to China. At this early point the Democratic party accused the Trump administration of racism and even blocked bills which were tough on China purely for political reasons because they did not want to appear to agree with Trump publicly. The roles reversed towards the end of the Trump Presidency when the poor response of the administration to the pandemic led to electoral loss.
The Biden presidency actually continued the tough stance of China but tried to formulate a more coherent overall China strategy rather than the scattered approach during the Trump presidency.
Examples of Chinese infiltration and influence operations include:
- infiltrating American universities and coopting US academics and students in various programs to promote CCP propaganda but also stealing information and research. The CCP financed numerous US universities and academics in order to gain access to their research and to promote their world view.
- the CCP established their own student bodies inside US universities which acted in the interests of China and for example organised boycotts of a University which welcomed the Dalai Lama. Chinese students also were encouraged to spy and report on their colleagues that spoke ill of China
- Chinese businesses could not list their companies on US stock exchanges because they do not follow US accounting practices. They circumvented these rules on Wall Street by buying already listed companies and using them for their own purposes. In this way Chinese companies stole billions of dollars from unsuspecting US investors which had no recourse against them inside or outside of China.
- Establishing relations through businessmen directly with local US politicians in order to create local influence networks and bypass the security safety nets at higher level of government. Then using these networks in order to block or push legislation according to China's interests.
- Sponsoring US officials, diplomats and low level politicians for multiple trips to China in order to influence them and use them to build up China's public image
The Chinese infiltration in the US establishment, political and business community includes:
- Rupert Murdoch's ex-wife Wendi Dong was a suspected Chinese agent, she was also best friends with the Kushner family and placed a Chinese nanny in the Kushner household. US security services had warned the Kushners about the security risks posed but they chose to ignore it. Prior to the marriage, Murdoch's children were worried that Wendi was placed to influence their father. But after he divorced her Murdoch himself has come out and said that he believed that Wendi was indeed a Chinese agent.
- Mitch McConnel's ex-wife Elaine Chao was a US Transportation Secretary in the Trump administration had deep ties with Chinese business and the CCP. She lobbied on behalf of the Chinese government even though she was a US government official and went so far as to ask advice from Americans on how the Chinese government should respond to Trump.
- Neil Bush ran a foundation which lobbied and promoted Chinese businesses in the US
- Jimmy Carter and Henry Kissinger lobbied on behalf of China and whitewashed the CCP crimes and human rights abuses, for example Kissinger criticised people that wanted to protest against the Uyghur repression during the Beijing sports events
- The investment chief of CalPERS, the retirement fund of the state of California with over $400 billion of assets Yu Ben Meng funnelled unsuspecting US investor money into Chinese companies including defence companies and companies that were involved in human rights abuses
- Dr. Jim Yong Kim, a Korean-born US academic the Obama administration appointed to the World Bank acted as a promoter of Chinese interests and approved large amounts of World Bank investment in the development of China
- Joe Biden's brother and son had businesses and financial interests in China working directly with several Chinese investment companies and providing advice to them. Hunter Biden was directly accused of taking bribes in favour of Chinese companies.
- Steve Bannon ran a joint news show with Chinese billionaire and self-declared dissident Guo Wengui. However, it was later revealed that Guo fiercely attacked and hunted other Chinese dissidents and it is suspected that he was in fact working covertly for the CCP. This news included the Hunter Biden laptop story which was heavily promoted by Guo's news network raising some suspicions of Chinese involvement
April 19, 2021
solid + super interesting read. well researched and well structured. the COVID 🧫chapters at the end felt a bit rushed and disorganized compared to the rest of the book but that’s understandable... really enjoyed the insight into CCP structure + dynamics, and (surprisingly) the bits about Mike Pence’s foreign policy were oddly quite fascinating for seemingly such a dull man. credit to the author. 4.5 ⭐️s
it’s also *not* a Republican (or even really a Trump) bashing book - there are no cheap shots: conservatives interested in China/CCP would enjoy this too
it’s also *not* a Republican (or even really a Trump) bashing book - there are no cheap shots: conservatives interested in China/CCP would enjoy this too
May 19, 2021
Essential reading for anybody concerned about CCP influence in liberal democracies and their atrocities committed against Hong Kong, Uyghur Muslims, Tibetans and the Taiwanese. Illuminating. Especially as a Brit who is somewhat removed from US politics. Anyone calling this a Trump-bashing book didn't read past the first couple of chapters... The narrative is mostly evidence-based, not gossip-fuelled. Picked this up after hearing the author (Josh Rogin) on Joe Rogan.
July 20, 2021
The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) is not a benign force. On the contrary, it is a malignancy that, like any cancer, seeks to exert its presence and control over the whole body. Rogin does an excellent job of spelling out how the CCP has used its influence in a carrot and stick fashion through money (think NBA, Hollywood, International Hotel Companies, Airlines, infrastructure loans to 3rd world countries etc, etc.), intellectual property theft via hacking and forced transfers, Confucius Institutes on college campuses and even the subversion of the U.S. Financial markets to draw on the life-blood of the rest of the world to engorge itself and stifle any criticism of its horrific human rights abuses going on inside its borders. Its goal is world hegemony. Sadly, U.S. Administrations from the era of Nixon through the Obama years have sought to deal with the CCP by trying to encourage it to play fair of the field of free trade and fair competition and although the CCP has paid lip service to that idea that's all it ever has been - lip service.
When Trump was elected President with his America First platform his goal was to obtain a fairer trading status with the CCP to right what he saw as unfair trading practices. To that end, he pursued what he though was a friendship with XI Jinping. In that regards he was rather naive as the Chinese Premier played to his vanity and used that "friendship" on numerous occasions (rather like the serpent in the Garden whispering in Eve's ear) to subvert action that was about to be taken by Trump's advisors.
Trump had no clearly defined China policy when he entered the White House and his advisors were a mixed bag of Wall Street Billionaires (who were benefitting from close ties with China), state security hawks who were hell-bent on cutting off ties with China and several other factions with distinct agendas such as human rights. Subsequently, there were constant mixed signals about the U.S. policy towards the CCP (hence the Chaos Under Heaven).
One of Trump's weaknesses was that in his America First approach, he didn't really care what went on inside China as far as Tibet, the Uyghurs of Xinjiang, persecution of religious minorities (Christians and Falun Gong) Hong Kong or Taiwan were concerned. It appears that he felt it would muddy the waters for a trade deal - and the deal was the thing.
Rogin's analysis is probably slightly left of center, but he gives credit where credit is due to Trump for what he did achieve ultimately, on China, and to the general awakening among all Americans (and many others around the world) as to the existential threat that the CCP poses to the free-world. This was brought into sharper focus when the world saw how the CCP reacted to the Wuhan Virus outbreak and how China tried to bully the world over it (threatening to cut off medical supplies etc. against any who criticized them).
Ultimately, Trump realized that he had been played by the Chinese and before leaving office his Administration was able to put a number of provisions in place that permanently changes the way the U.S. deals with the CCP - which is a good thing. "Trump was great at flipping over the chess board, but he couldn't set the board back up again. Nevertheless, he shifted the conversation about China in such a way that cannot be undone. This shift was fueled by the slow but steady awakening of various parts of American society to the scope and scale of the China challenge. And it was accompanied by a parallel awakening around the world to the character of the CCP and its broad efforts to both reshape the global order to its advantage and interfere in free and open societies."
In the epilogue, Rogin hopes for a better outcome from the incoming Biden Administration. he writes: "America can't lead a push to defend core values like the rule of law, human rights, political pluralism, and freedom of speech abroad if it doesn't uphold those values at home."
In the time since the Biden Administration has been in office we have seen an unprecedent attack of those very issues from those inside the current Administration in concert with the Tech moguls of Silicone Valley. The silencing or cancelling of not just President Trump, but of many conservative voices should be deeply troubling to all Americans - just because you don't like what someone has to say, doesn't mean they don't have a right to be heard. Instead of being the antithesis of the CCP, America seems to be moving in a similar direction rather than away from it - and that is deeply troubling.
When Trump was elected President with his America First platform his goal was to obtain a fairer trading status with the CCP to right what he saw as unfair trading practices. To that end, he pursued what he though was a friendship with XI Jinping. In that regards he was rather naive as the Chinese Premier played to his vanity and used that "friendship" on numerous occasions (rather like the serpent in the Garden whispering in Eve's ear) to subvert action that was about to be taken by Trump's advisors.
Trump had no clearly defined China policy when he entered the White House and his advisors were a mixed bag of Wall Street Billionaires (who were benefitting from close ties with China), state security hawks who were hell-bent on cutting off ties with China and several other factions with distinct agendas such as human rights. Subsequently, there were constant mixed signals about the U.S. policy towards the CCP (hence the Chaos Under Heaven).
One of Trump's weaknesses was that in his America First approach, he didn't really care what went on inside China as far as Tibet, the Uyghurs of Xinjiang, persecution of religious minorities (Christians and Falun Gong) Hong Kong or Taiwan were concerned. It appears that he felt it would muddy the waters for a trade deal - and the deal was the thing.
Rogin's analysis is probably slightly left of center, but he gives credit where credit is due to Trump for what he did achieve ultimately, on China, and to the general awakening among all Americans (and many others around the world) as to the existential threat that the CCP poses to the free-world. This was brought into sharper focus when the world saw how the CCP reacted to the Wuhan Virus outbreak and how China tried to bully the world over it (threatening to cut off medical supplies etc. against any who criticized them).
Ultimately, Trump realized that he had been played by the Chinese and before leaving office his Administration was able to put a number of provisions in place that permanently changes the way the U.S. deals with the CCP - which is a good thing. "Trump was great at flipping over the chess board, but he couldn't set the board back up again. Nevertheless, he shifted the conversation about China in such a way that cannot be undone. This shift was fueled by the slow but steady awakening of various parts of American society to the scope and scale of the China challenge. And it was accompanied by a parallel awakening around the world to the character of the CCP and its broad efforts to both reshape the global order to its advantage and interfere in free and open societies."
In the epilogue, Rogin hopes for a better outcome from the incoming Biden Administration. he writes: "America can't lead a push to defend core values like the rule of law, human rights, political pluralism, and freedom of speech abroad if it doesn't uphold those values at home."
In the time since the Biden Administration has been in office we have seen an unprecedent attack of those very issues from those inside the current Administration in concert with the Tech moguls of Silicone Valley. The silencing or cancelling of not just President Trump, but of many conservative voices should be deeply troubling to all Americans - just because you don't like what someone has to say, doesn't mean they don't have a right to be heard. Instead of being the antithesis of the CCP, America seems to be moving in a similar direction rather than away from it - and that is deeply troubling.
April 10, 2021
A great book for the trash Trump tribe and their media brainwashed masses. But it is a waste of time for the adults in the room. Not really harmful or dangerous propaganda, just bland platitudes that offer no new insights for the battle of civilization.
This CNN “political analyst” is so blinded by his Trump Derangement Syndrome that he misses many issues. The book is full of disinformation and verges on CCP propaganda. The major flaw in Rogin’s basic premise is to conflate the CCP with the Chinese people. The book just goes downhill from there.
I recommend passing on this time waster or give it to your diehard woke friend to keep her occupied with trivialities.
This CNN “political analyst” is so blinded by his Trump Derangement Syndrome that he misses many issues. The book is full of disinformation and verges on CCP propaganda. The major flaw in Rogin’s basic premise is to conflate the CCP with the Chinese people. The book just goes downhill from there.
I recommend passing on this time waster or give it to your diehard woke friend to keep her occupied with trivialities.
April 15, 2022
If there was ever an indictment on how the US (Trump in particular, but applies to other presidents as well) handled its relationship with China, it’s proven out in this book. Story after story of executive branch incompetence provide a damning case on how our country continues to fall short when it prioritizes money over national security.
March 27, 2021
Just finished reading and am recommending this book to everyone I know. Most important read of the year about the most important subject all US policy makers should be focused on.
March 25, 2025
Wendi Deng was apparently enamored with Tony Blair's behind. What a bizarre realization
May 3, 2021
Well written, thoroughly researched, and very fair. This book should be taught in American high schools. Incredible how much the narrative has changed on China during the Trump administration, but equally disappointing that there weren’t more competent people in the administration (like Matthew Pottinger) to execute on the planning.
April 7, 2021
An excellent book, from a Washington Post foreign policy journalist, documenting the Trump Administration and it’s relationship/handling of China, but is also the story of the “awakening” of America to the serious Chinese/CCP threat today and moving forward.
A must read for all but especially those with an interest in Asia foreign policy like myself. Definitely recommend checking out The Realignment podcast #112 with the author as well.
“The precondition for grappling with the China challenge is admitting that the old policies have failed and the CCP’s actions under Xi require a new response. All Americans should work to put aside their differences and come together with allies and partners to craft and mount that new response. Until that happens, the chaos under heaven is likely to only continue.” -Josh Rogin, author.
A must read for all but especially those with an interest in Asia foreign policy like myself. Definitely recommend checking out The Realignment podcast #112 with the author as well.
“The precondition for grappling with the China challenge is admitting that the old policies have failed and the CCP’s actions under Xi require a new response. All Americans should work to put aside their differences and come together with allies and partners to craft and mount that new response. Until that happens, the chaos under heaven is likely to only continue.” -Josh Rogin, author.
May 13, 2021
DNF - I picked this book up because it got a good review in the WSJ. I lost count on the author's use of "supposedly", "allegedly", "anonymous source", "leading administrative official" etc etc to avoid lawsuits. I tried to stay neutral as I read debunked Russia collusion narratives as if they were facts. I tried to continue reading after so many instances of the author injecting his negative opinions of the president's intelligence, family, billionaire friends, ego, etc.
China is our #1 enemy and they will lie, cheat, steal and do whatever they can to usurp the US's standing in the world. Even now as I write this we are experiencing high raw material costs coming from China, contributing to inflation worries.
Manufacturing has left this country over the past two decades. China forces US companies to partnership with Chinese companies so they have access to intellectual properties. They subsidize their corporations so they can sell cheaply in the US. In theory, raising taxes on US companies is great, but it makes it that much harder to compete with China. The previous presidents were either too stupid or indifferent to China's rise. Trump made China a priority. Biden hasn't reversed the tariffs as of yet because he needs the leverage. This in itself makes me wonder if Trump succeeded at least a little with China, unlike those before him (how many years has Biden been in Washington?) Who knows what he could have accomplished in another 4 years?
My poor blood pressure, I'll wait for a book by Pompeo, not some biased Washington Post reporter.
China is our #1 enemy and they will lie, cheat, steal and do whatever they can to usurp the US's standing in the world. Even now as I write this we are experiencing high raw material costs coming from China, contributing to inflation worries.
Manufacturing has left this country over the past two decades. China forces US companies to partnership with Chinese companies so they have access to intellectual properties. They subsidize their corporations so they can sell cheaply in the US. In theory, raising taxes on US companies is great, but it makes it that much harder to compete with China. The previous presidents were either too stupid or indifferent to China's rise. Trump made China a priority. Biden hasn't reversed the tariffs as of yet because he needs the leverage. This in itself makes me wonder if Trump succeeded at least a little with China, unlike those before him (how many years has Biden been in Washington?) Who knows what he could have accomplished in another 4 years?
My poor blood pressure, I'll wait for a book by Pompeo, not some biased Washington Post reporter.
September 14, 2021
After listening to the author on a podcast I figured I go ahead and read his book. While it primarily serves as a retrospective of the US-China relationship during the Trump Administration, Chaos Under Heaven does an excellent job detailing the nature of the Chinese political system and its budding competition with America. The book has a clear “gathering storm” vibe to it all. From the NBA shutting down players/staff voicing support for Hong Kong democracy protesters, a lack of an aggressive action to stop the building of Uighur concentration camps, and the general sense Taiwan will clearly be a flashpoint this decade is foreboding. That being said, despite what felt like many protestations that a Cold War 2.0 isn’t inevitable, it did feel a bit like wish-casting. The author has no trouble inserting himself into the narrative and clearly sympathizes with a hawkish view regarding US-China relations. That’s not to say the actions stated above do not warrant any response, it’s just that many among the DC foreign policy establishment never encountered a problem that didn’t require a military solution. But despite all that throat clearing the final section deals with the Covid-19 pandemic-it’s origins, the initial response, etc. All I say on that is it does make you think that the storm is already here.
February 8, 2022
This was one of the better political books on China/America relations that I have read lately.
A bit outdated, even though it was only released a year ago, this book did a great job at describing the foreign policy and international relations between North America and China.
It described many important topics and I would recommend reading it if you live in North America or China.
4.8/5
A bit outdated, even though it was only released a year ago, this book did a great job at describing the foreign policy and international relations between North America and China.
It described many important topics and I would recommend reading it if you live in North America or China.
4.8/5
May 16, 2021
An interesting look at how China and Donald Trump conducted foreign policy that has awaken the American people to the danger of a China USA conflict.
May 8, 2021
Wow!! Truly mind-blowing and very well researched. Zipped through it and couldn't put it down
February 21, 2022
the author was beaten up by dan nainan in 2013
December 9, 2023
The exact anti trump propaganda you can expect from a Washington post journalist only this is under the guise of being against china. Which ended with contradiction and bunch of platitudes.
June 6, 2021
The book's most prominent point, although understated, is the need for people from all sections in the US to agree on China as a strategic rival. The book is less about China - real or imaginary - and threats it poses - again real or imaginary - than about the author's frustrations with the inability of factions to come together.
Superficially, the book is about China as the US's prime threat from now on. The author tries to provide an ethical and moral logic, but what he deems inevitable is more borne out of the unease that China can now compete with the US on a large number of economic, geopolitical, and technological fields where the US lead earlier was unassailable. At multiple points, the author could not contain himself in blaming China for the US-like ambitions it harbors in influence and affluence.
Unlike the US's past enemies - in Japan, Russia, and radical Islam - China is more a rival and competitor. China refuses to play by US rules which is not merely frustrating but also destabilizing for the US, as the author highlights indirectly. Let's examine this closely.
As the author writes, China should be blamed on suppressing political dissent, avoiding democratic reforms, human rights, trade protectionism, IP pilferage, capital subsidies, low wages, territorial expansionism, rampant nationalism, religious suppression, and a host of others. Whether true or not, and whether the US likes it or not, China will not change its current ways for the sake of the US.
The more significant point is that many factions within the US, like in the Trump administration, as shown in the book, do not agree on squashing China for what the author sees as proven infringements or violations. For the US to have all major parts of the society work together in fighting China, many of its own rules on freedom of expression, business practices, market norms, and engagements need to change.
The author may feel that there is a legal or moral ground to do most of it - like forcing the US market to stop listing China companies or helping the anti-China political causes - but none of this is possible without top-down edicts given the rules of US society. Without the categorical top-down directives to reduce the engagement with China, effectively declaring the start of a clear cold war 2, the US individuals and corporates will have many reasons to work in ways that will displease China-bashers like the author.
In its single-handed China-is-bad context setting, the book plays fast and loose with facts. The sections on capital markets reveal the ignorance - if not the bias - more to this reviewer than anyone else, with the things turning laughable in the discussions on index providers. Frequent "hacking" claims - as indicators of most China successes being a result of IP stealing - are ignorant of how innovations truly happen. The author has his own ideas on how large firms from Wall Street to Silicon Valley, industrial and mineral, real estate to universities should be behaving, based on alleged wrong done to or through them.
In conclusion, the US and China strategic rivalry is the new reality for everyone for the coming decades. We are beyond the point where one could ask whether this is needed, as is clear in this book. The US policymakers will need to embrace offensive realism to hold their competitive ground. Its partisan setting will lead to both sides having their own version of truths and righteousness. This book will go down as one of the early efforts asking for disparate US political factions to come together by showing how unfocussed efforts of the previous years, and particularly the Trump administration, have handed over the advantage to China. Will these factions actually come together even in the slightest? It would have been far more unlikely except for the Covid origination theory discussed at the end.
Superficially, the book is about China as the US's prime threat from now on. The author tries to provide an ethical and moral logic, but what he deems inevitable is more borne out of the unease that China can now compete with the US on a large number of economic, geopolitical, and technological fields where the US lead earlier was unassailable. At multiple points, the author could not contain himself in blaming China for the US-like ambitions it harbors in influence and affluence.
Unlike the US's past enemies - in Japan, Russia, and radical Islam - China is more a rival and competitor. China refuses to play by US rules which is not merely frustrating but also destabilizing for the US, as the author highlights indirectly. Let's examine this closely.
As the author writes, China should be blamed on suppressing political dissent, avoiding democratic reforms, human rights, trade protectionism, IP pilferage, capital subsidies, low wages, territorial expansionism, rampant nationalism, religious suppression, and a host of others. Whether true or not, and whether the US likes it or not, China will not change its current ways for the sake of the US.
The more significant point is that many factions within the US, like in the Trump administration, as shown in the book, do not agree on squashing China for what the author sees as proven infringements or violations. For the US to have all major parts of the society work together in fighting China, many of its own rules on freedom of expression, business practices, market norms, and engagements need to change.
The author may feel that there is a legal or moral ground to do most of it - like forcing the US market to stop listing China companies or helping the anti-China political causes - but none of this is possible without top-down edicts given the rules of US society. Without the categorical top-down directives to reduce the engagement with China, effectively declaring the start of a clear cold war 2, the US individuals and corporates will have many reasons to work in ways that will displease China-bashers like the author.
In its single-handed China-is-bad context setting, the book plays fast and loose with facts. The sections on capital markets reveal the ignorance - if not the bias - more to this reviewer than anyone else, with the things turning laughable in the discussions on index providers. Frequent "hacking" claims - as indicators of most China successes being a result of IP stealing - are ignorant of how innovations truly happen. The author has his own ideas on how large firms from Wall Street to Silicon Valley, industrial and mineral, real estate to universities should be behaving, based on alleged wrong done to or through them.
In conclusion, the US and China strategic rivalry is the new reality for everyone for the coming decades. We are beyond the point where one could ask whether this is needed, as is clear in this book. The US policymakers will need to embrace offensive realism to hold their competitive ground. Its partisan setting will lead to both sides having their own version of truths and righteousness. This book will go down as one of the early efforts asking for disparate US political factions to come together by showing how unfocussed efforts of the previous years, and particularly the Trump administration, have handed over the advantage to China. Will these factions actually come together even in the slightest? It would have been far more unlikely except for the Covid origination theory discussed at the end.
April 23, 2025
Rousing a Sleeping Giant (but is it the U.S. or China?)
As I write this review in April 2025, the tariff debate and trade war between the U.S. and China is in full swing. I recently saw the author in a guest appearance on the Bill Maher show and felt that this book would be a great way to get smarter about the underlying strategy the U.S. has in place to confront China on its unfair trade practices. The book was written in 2021 and consequently addresses the machinations around tariffs in Trump's first term but also provides an excellent foundation to understand the moves that are being made in Trump 2.0.
I think it was Tom Friedman (also an excellent reference source for this subject) who noted that Trump is quite adept at identifying a problem but fails miserably in implementing the best solution. And so it is with tariffs. He raises the point that making the first move (imposing a tariff) is fairly easy - but having a plan for Day 2 and beyond is critical (i.e. you need to define what your objective is and have a strategy to get there). On this measure, the Trump administration is failing miserably. The final chapter of the book on the COVID pandemic highlighting the U.S.reliance on the Chinese supply chain for medical supplies laid bare the absence of U.S. manufacturing capability and underscores the need for the U S. (and the west more generally) to not outsource critical manufacturing capability to China. Rogin notes that China manufactures approximately 1/3rd of the world's goods but only consumes about 10%. This imbalance cannot last indefinitely.
But back to the moves made by Trump 1.0. As President Obama once said, if a problem was easy to fix it would never make its way to the president's desk. The job of the president entails making those tough calls. Not surprisingly, when wrestling with the China "problem", there are competing interests at play, be they economic, national security, educational or trade related. But... there should be some consistency in those decisions. The winner should not necessarily be the last man the room. But the Trump 1.0 White House sure seemed like a cluster&*#. One minute Trump was-hard core protectionist, the next he was doing Xi a favor with no quid pro quo in return. He was more interested in the appearance of a short term deal than a plan to deliver longer term strategic advantage.
Some politicians have tried to frame the relationship with China as a new Cold War. But, as the book points out, we are in the midst of an emerging "grey war" where China is using social media, economic coercion, covert and overt spying, influencers (I.e. snitches) placed at all levels in public and private organizations in China as well as in the U.S., bribery and more to achieve their goals. No perceived slight is too small to escape their attention and retaliation. The U.S. is playing checkers while China is playing 3D chess. Critics argue that Trump had no overarching strategy in how to deal with China, other to act on his gut. Rogin argues that this is too simplistic and that the Trump administration had multiple strategies for dealing with China. The hardliners, led by Bannon and Navarro wanted an all out trade war while the progressives led by Mnuchin wanted anything that would mollify Wall Street and avoid a financial calamity.
The conclusions Rogin brings up in the Epilogue are still relevant today. The values of the U.S. are built on a system of rules and democratic freedoms, and it would be a mistake to try to out-China China. The reality of Trump 2.0 is that an autocratic regime under Xi can likely outlast a democratic republic under Trump, but how long will the Chinese working class be prepared to subsidize Xi's goals. And... will the U.S. remain a democratic republic? Time will tell.... Trump 3.0 anyone?
As I write this review in April 2025, the tariff debate and trade war between the U.S. and China is in full swing. I recently saw the author in a guest appearance on the Bill Maher show and felt that this book would be a great way to get smarter about the underlying strategy the U.S. has in place to confront China on its unfair trade practices. The book was written in 2021 and consequently addresses the machinations around tariffs in Trump's first term but also provides an excellent foundation to understand the moves that are being made in Trump 2.0.
I think it was Tom Friedman (also an excellent reference source for this subject) who noted that Trump is quite adept at identifying a problem but fails miserably in implementing the best solution. And so it is with tariffs. He raises the point that making the first move (imposing a tariff) is fairly easy - but having a plan for Day 2 and beyond is critical (i.e. you need to define what your objective is and have a strategy to get there). On this measure, the Trump administration is failing miserably. The final chapter of the book on the COVID pandemic highlighting the U.S.reliance on the Chinese supply chain for medical supplies laid bare the absence of U.S. manufacturing capability and underscores the need for the U S. (and the west more generally) to not outsource critical manufacturing capability to China. Rogin notes that China manufactures approximately 1/3rd of the world's goods but only consumes about 10%. This imbalance cannot last indefinitely.
But back to the moves made by Trump 1.0. As President Obama once said, if a problem was easy to fix it would never make its way to the president's desk. The job of the president entails making those tough calls. Not surprisingly, when wrestling with the China "problem", there are competing interests at play, be they economic, national security, educational or trade related. But... there should be some consistency in those decisions. The winner should not necessarily be the last man the room. But the Trump 1.0 White House sure seemed like a cluster&*#. One minute Trump was-hard core protectionist, the next he was doing Xi a favor with no quid pro quo in return. He was more interested in the appearance of a short term deal than a plan to deliver longer term strategic advantage.
Some politicians have tried to frame the relationship with China as a new Cold War. But, as the book points out, we are in the midst of an emerging "grey war" where China is using social media, economic coercion, covert and overt spying, influencers (I.e. snitches) placed at all levels in public and private organizations in China as well as in the U.S., bribery and more to achieve their goals. No perceived slight is too small to escape their attention and retaliation. The U.S. is playing checkers while China is playing 3D chess. Critics argue that Trump had no overarching strategy in how to deal with China, other to act on his gut. Rogin argues that this is too simplistic and that the Trump administration had multiple strategies for dealing with China. The hardliners, led by Bannon and Navarro wanted an all out trade war while the progressives led by Mnuchin wanted anything that would mollify Wall Street and avoid a financial calamity.
The conclusions Rogin brings up in the Epilogue are still relevant today. The values of the U.S. are built on a system of rules and democratic freedoms, and it would be a mistake to try to out-China China. The reality of Trump 2.0 is that an autocratic regime under Xi can likely outlast a democratic republic under Trump, but how long will the Chinese working class be prepared to subsidize Xi's goals. And... will the U.S. remain a democratic republic? Time will tell.... Trump 3.0 anyone?
September 23, 2022
An important and intriguing book. There are several ways in which this book changed my mind on some key issues related to China.
For a long time, I was in the camp of doing what we could to entice and encourage economic and political liberalization in China: using trade and deepening relationships to move China from its repressive and closed system to a freer and more open society. A free China being a part of the world system would be great for everyone. And this looked to be working, if slowly, up through the early 2000s. I was still in that camp well after however. Rogin’s book shows, however, that whatever might have been happening from the 70s through the 90s, the Twenty-First century was shaping up to be something very different. The engagement strategy was no longer working (if it ever really was) and was in many ways backfiring as the CCP (The Chinese Communist Party) abused this engagement to cement its power, enrich itself, further oppress its people, and extend its influence beyond its borders.
Rogin highlights how both the Obama and Trump administrations failed to see or meet these threats. And in many cases made them worse. Rogin shows how the Obama administration continued to push the engagement strategies and ignored China’s bad faith and bad actions (both in China and here at home). He goes into greater detail on the mixed messages of the Trump administration. Often talking tough on China, Trump was successfully wooed by Xi and seemingly caved to many of Xi’s ‘personal favors’ asked of Trump. Inside the administration, there was plenty of chaos as well: with his advisors split between various camps. There were those who wanted to continue engagement. Then there were the “China Hawks” who saw China as both an economic and political enemy. And another camp that just wanted to continue business as usual to keep the money flowing. Each of these had Trump’s ear at various times; leading to shifting policies depending on Trump’s gut or mood. On the plus side, the chaotic and disruptive nature of Trump did keep the CCP and Xi on their toes, never quite knowing what to expect. Rogin discussed how the tariffs and other Trump policies did put pressure on China, though not to the extent that any progress seems to have been made. In any case, I’m still not convinced tariffs were a good idea. But what I am more convinced of now is that policies of engagement are no longer effective and we need to move to different footing to protect ourselves and the rest of free world from the CCP’s aggressiveness and manipulations.
Rogin is even-handed as can be seen by the fact that those will certain ideological convictions will think he’s biased. MAGA-types will hate this book because it shows the incompetent and chaotic way Trump governed. Those suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome will think Rogin goes to easy on him – in particularly when Rogin highlights the few successes of the Trump administration vis-à-vis China.
Rogin’s book convinced me that the CCP-led China is far more a threat than I really appreciated. Not that I thought they were benign, but the depth and extent of the threat that Rogin details has forced me to rethink the ways I think we should be approaching China. This is not Cold War Part 2, it is something different. Still, in the way the USSR and its role in the world colored almost all foreign policy during the Cold War, our relationship to China will be the dominant lens by which we will have to consider foreign policy going forward. And this book is an important piece in making sense of some of that.
For a long time, I was in the camp of doing what we could to entice and encourage economic and political liberalization in China: using trade and deepening relationships to move China from its repressive and closed system to a freer and more open society. A free China being a part of the world system would be great for everyone. And this looked to be working, if slowly, up through the early 2000s. I was still in that camp well after however. Rogin’s book shows, however, that whatever might have been happening from the 70s through the 90s, the Twenty-First century was shaping up to be something very different. The engagement strategy was no longer working (if it ever really was) and was in many ways backfiring as the CCP (The Chinese Communist Party) abused this engagement to cement its power, enrich itself, further oppress its people, and extend its influence beyond its borders.
Rogin highlights how both the Obama and Trump administrations failed to see or meet these threats. And in many cases made them worse. Rogin shows how the Obama administration continued to push the engagement strategies and ignored China’s bad faith and bad actions (both in China and here at home). He goes into greater detail on the mixed messages of the Trump administration. Often talking tough on China, Trump was successfully wooed by Xi and seemingly caved to many of Xi’s ‘personal favors’ asked of Trump. Inside the administration, there was plenty of chaos as well: with his advisors split between various camps. There were those who wanted to continue engagement. Then there were the “China Hawks” who saw China as both an economic and political enemy. And another camp that just wanted to continue business as usual to keep the money flowing. Each of these had Trump’s ear at various times; leading to shifting policies depending on Trump’s gut or mood. On the plus side, the chaotic and disruptive nature of Trump did keep the CCP and Xi on their toes, never quite knowing what to expect. Rogin discussed how the tariffs and other Trump policies did put pressure on China, though not to the extent that any progress seems to have been made. In any case, I’m still not convinced tariffs were a good idea. But what I am more convinced of now is that policies of engagement are no longer effective and we need to move to different footing to protect ourselves and the rest of free world from the CCP’s aggressiveness and manipulations.
Rogin is even-handed as can be seen by the fact that those will certain ideological convictions will think he’s biased. MAGA-types will hate this book because it shows the incompetent and chaotic way Trump governed. Those suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome will think Rogin goes to easy on him – in particularly when Rogin highlights the few successes of the Trump administration vis-à-vis China.
Rogin’s book convinced me that the CCP-led China is far more a threat than I really appreciated. Not that I thought they were benign, but the depth and extent of the threat that Rogin details has forced me to rethink the ways I think we should be approaching China. This is not Cold War Part 2, it is something different. Still, in the way the USSR and its role in the world colored almost all foreign policy during the Cold War, our relationship to China will be the dominant lens by which we will have to consider foreign policy going forward. And this book is an important piece in making sense of some of that.
October 22, 2023
An informative read on the Trump era-development of U.S.-China relations. Rogin, a Washington Post reporter, provides in-depth commentary on the insidious entanglement of the Chinese state on U.S. government and society as well as the latter’s scattershot response.
This book stands above many peer “China hawk” texts in that it actually describes how China conducts its affairs and what makes them so dangerous. Economic brinksmanship and the exporting of domestic autocracy and pro-CCP ideology are just the start of Rogin’s list of charges against China’s leaders. By building the case against China from the ground up, the author crafts a persuasive call to action against the key strategic adversary of the West.
It astounds me that, as of writing, the two highest-rated reviews for this text dismiss it as just another anti-Trump book. To be clear, Trump is certainly not portrayed flatteringly in this. But to conclude this book is primarily “anti-Trump” is a failure of reading comprehension. Rogin’s angle is squarely “anti-China”; to that end he routinely criticizes doves and highlights hawks. Trump, by virtue of his slavish devotion to Xi Jinping, was arguably the most powerful China dove in American history, and therefore merits the opprobrium he receives. But Rogin also spares little praise for prominent Democrats from Obama to Clinton’s while affirming the stances of Republicans from Pompeo and Navarro to Senators Rubio, Hawley, Cruz and Cornyn. So this book is neither as diametrically partisan nor Trump-centric as recent Woodward or Wolff books.
The chapter on the 2020 pandemic goes a bit too far into scientific jargon in the effort to establish the lab leak theory, leaving that section an odd contrast to the rest of the book’s smooth flow. And while the book adeptly assesses the ranks of Trump political appointees and bureaucrats, it affords little nuance to the Obama administration’s, leaving the book feeling slightly bereft of recent historical context. It may be true that Obama and many senior foreign policy staffers were quick to appease Beijing, but the depth of opposition by Trump-era career staffers makes the notion of zero Obama-era dissent implausible.
Overall, this is a solid construction for a political-economic case against China. Though somewhat unbalanced in its focus and context, it illustrates the great variety of means China employs to challenge American hegemony, the different U.S. factions formed to manage this relationship, and a guide for how the U.S. should respond.
This book stands above many peer “China hawk” texts in that it actually describes how China conducts its affairs and what makes them so dangerous. Economic brinksmanship and the exporting of domestic autocracy and pro-CCP ideology are just the start of Rogin’s list of charges against China’s leaders. By building the case against China from the ground up, the author crafts a persuasive call to action against the key strategic adversary of the West.
It astounds me that, as of writing, the two highest-rated reviews for this text dismiss it as just another anti-Trump book. To be clear, Trump is certainly not portrayed flatteringly in this. But to conclude this book is primarily “anti-Trump” is a failure of reading comprehension. Rogin’s angle is squarely “anti-China”; to that end he routinely criticizes doves and highlights hawks. Trump, by virtue of his slavish devotion to Xi Jinping, was arguably the most powerful China dove in American history, and therefore merits the opprobrium he receives. But Rogin also spares little praise for prominent Democrats from Obama to Clinton’s while affirming the stances of Republicans from Pompeo and Navarro to Senators Rubio, Hawley, Cruz and Cornyn. So this book is neither as diametrically partisan nor Trump-centric as recent Woodward or Wolff books.
The chapter on the 2020 pandemic goes a bit too far into scientific jargon in the effort to establish the lab leak theory, leaving that section an odd contrast to the rest of the book’s smooth flow. And while the book adeptly assesses the ranks of Trump political appointees and bureaucrats, it affords little nuance to the Obama administration’s, leaving the book feeling slightly bereft of recent historical context. It may be true that Obama and many senior foreign policy staffers were quick to appease Beijing, but the depth of opposition by Trump-era career staffers makes the notion of zero Obama-era dissent implausible.
Overall, this is a solid construction for a political-economic case against China. Though somewhat unbalanced in its focus and context, it illustrates the great variety of means China employs to challenge American hegemony, the different U.S. factions formed to manage this relationship, and a guide for how the U.S. should respond.
September 29, 2021
This was a really interesting read and a fascinating look at Chinese Communist Party (CCP) policy during the Trump administration. The author, Josh Rogin, clearly had incredible access to many foreign policy experts inside and outside the Trump White House. There were a few things that stuck out to me. First, it's clear that the Trump WH was a pretty unruly place with many factions (including on China) vying for the president's attention and support who would do anything to get it. There doesn't seem to be much accountability around that and the high turnover made these problems even worse. The second takeaway was that China's influence within the US has expanded incredibly in the last few decades - from Confucius Institutes on college campuses, to business leaders leveraging American's retirement investments in CCP-controlled companies, to Hollywood censoring movies, to researchers who allow their work to be utilized by the CCP and Chinese military - we have a major problem with how we are tied to and positioned with the Chinese government. Lastly, despite all of the challenges listed above (and many people shooting themselves in the foot), US policy toward the CCP shifted in meaningful ways over those four years, from us trying to arrange a trade deal with China to many parts of the US government actually coming around to the idea that China should be viewed as a great power competitor first.
The book is also worthwhile just for the last couple of chapters, which are on the CovID-19 crisis. It has a well-researched perspective on the origins of CovID and the CCP's appalling cover-up when we could've still put a lid on things. It also talks about how China has tried to use CovID to project power internationally and silence countries on Chinese issues using vaccines and medical supplies. Luckily, it does seem that a lot of this has not actually worked. Hopefully, we'll see a foreign policy going forward that challenges China, but does that through strong multilateral engagement with other allies in the region and globally. It was really clear here that the Trump administration was severely lacking on that front.
The book is also worthwhile just for the last couple of chapters, which are on the CovID-19 crisis. It has a well-researched perspective on the origins of CovID and the CCP's appalling cover-up when we could've still put a lid on things. It also talks about how China has tried to use CovID to project power internationally and silence countries on Chinese issues using vaccines and medical supplies. Luckily, it does seem that a lot of this has not actually worked. Hopefully, we'll see a foreign policy going forward that challenges China, but does that through strong multilateral engagement with other allies in the region and globally. It was really clear here that the Trump administration was severely lacking on that front.
November 12, 2022
This book hurt my brain. I knew almost nothing about the CCP and how our government deals with them before reading this so I know a LOT went over my head. Even if I only picked up 25% I am proud of myself for learning. There are so many people and policies I think Rogin does a good job for the average lay person like myself to follow. I also really respect how un biased he is in sharing stories. I know he is left leaning from hearing him interviewed but the book, I thought was completely unbiased. He gave the Trump administration credit where they deserved it and ripped them when they deserved that. Sometimes he'll describe and problem or situation and say, this group of people thought x, this group of people thought y and this group of people thought z.... then he wouldn't comment on what he thought, which I respect but sometimes I found myself wondering which way IS the best way to handle this situation. That's the biggest takeaway from the book. The situation with China and the CCP is incredibly complex. The stories of the Uyghurs in the camps were so unbelievable and upsetting. More awareness needs to be made to the American people. I also think his chapter on the lab leak was really interesting and should be read by everyone because if we don't deal with the Wuhan lab, we WILL have another pandemic. Above all, president Trump may have done a few good things with China which Rogin acknowledges but generally speaking it was a mess and like throwing spaghetti at the wall. Having a president with literally no political experience was a huge problem. I also, while not surprised, am still irritated that Trump doesn't care about the human rights issues in China but sees our relationship with them only as an economic problem. I would recommend this book for anyone wanting to learn more about the CCP but would recommend the audiobook.
February 20, 2023
This is pitched as a Trump Book - and while the incompetence of Trump and his gang does play a clear and critical role in the book, there is a lot more here than cheap dunks on a clueless regime.
And having just finishedChip War: The Fight for the World's Most Critical Technology, I found this book a rewarding deep dive on many of the events in the second half of that book.
It’s clear that China is playing by a different set of rules than the West, and whatever you think of Trump, his antics drew a lot of attention to it (whether that would have been the case under Clinton, we’ll never know).
Rogin shows clearly how national security conflicts with corporate profit interests and how this conflict affects policy decisions. A figure like Mnuchin seems much more dangerous than Trump, because he knows the damage his desired path would cause and doesn’t care. There is a section discussing the changing tactics of Chinese companies to secure American capital investment -- from RTOs and IPOs to securing spots on MSCI's indexes -- that was new and interesting to me.
Other commenters have pointed out that the chapter that deals with the pandemic and post-election events feel rushed and out of place. This is where the book falls into the traps of so many Trump-era tell-alls, in that it gets into the weeds with half-truths and half-baked thinking that feels salacious but kind of petty.
Overall a readable, engaging and educational glimpse at China’s ambition and tactics. It’s worrying and important stuff.
And having just finishedChip War: The Fight for the World's Most Critical Technology, I found this book a rewarding deep dive on many of the events in the second half of that book.
It’s clear that China is playing by a different set of rules than the West, and whatever you think of Trump, his antics drew a lot of attention to it (whether that would have been the case under Clinton, we’ll never know).
Rogin shows clearly how national security conflicts with corporate profit interests and how this conflict affects policy decisions. A figure like Mnuchin seems much more dangerous than Trump, because he knows the damage his desired path would cause and doesn’t care. There is a section discussing the changing tactics of Chinese companies to secure American capital investment -- from RTOs and IPOs to securing spots on MSCI's indexes -- that was new and interesting to me.
Other commenters have pointed out that the chapter that deals with the pandemic and post-election events feel rushed and out of place. This is where the book falls into the traps of so many Trump-era tell-alls, in that it gets into the weeds with half-truths and half-baked thinking that feels salacious but kind of petty.
Overall a readable, engaging and educational glimpse at China’s ambition and tactics. It’s worrying and important stuff.
November 23, 2021
In Chaos Under Heaven by Josh Rogan, secret information gets leaked about the US government and how Donald Trump's unexpected election victory ruptured the fragile understanding between Washington and Beijing, entrusting the most crucial partnership of the twenty-first century to a rookie who had harshly criticized China on the campaign path. Trump stoked the long-simmering rivalry between the two countries almost as soon as he took office, while also forging a "friendship" with Chinese President Xi Jinping, whose manipulations of his American counterpart would jeopardize the White House's already jumbled response to the historic challenge of a rising China. At the same time, Trump's own staff sought to guide U.S. policy from within. This is the most complex, but the best book I have ever read. Though it is incredibly confusing and I didn't even know what half of the information meant, I learned more while reading this book than I have while reading any other book. Learning about the US government from the inside and the relations with China is incredibly important for people to understand, but most people don't, so I would 100% recommend this book to just about everyone. This book is definitely a 5 out of 5.
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August 22, 2021This was a really fascinating read, especially getting a look into why some "policies" unfolded the way they did (like the Tik Tok deal going bust). Essentially, a combination of Trump's neuroticism, and the many China-policy factions within the administration resulted in a very discombobulated approach which ended up back where it started, with shitty relations.
The most important take away from this book is the effect Trump had on the public discourse around China and the CCP, sparked by COVID-19 and the role China played globally in suppressing information. Trump opened up a very necessary and dirty conversation about China, instead of playing nice when everything was clearly out of order for economic gains, as had been the precedent since the 90s
China is a huge problem, and its pretty clear we need to start unraveling the ties. This book did a really good job showing how we started, and what was flawed/what worked
The most important take away from this book is the effect Trump had on the public discourse around China and the CCP, sparked by COVID-19 and the role China played globally in suppressing information. Trump opened up a very necessary and dirty conversation about China, instead of playing nice when everything was clearly out of order for economic gains, as had been the precedent since the 90s
China is a huge problem, and its pretty clear we need to start unraveling the ties. This book did a really good job showing how we started, and what was flawed/what worked
November 28, 2021
Jarring and Eye Opening
In these days of sound bite journalism, this book provides a piercing analysis of a deliberate execution of a disturbing and, unfortunately successful, strategy by the CCP to infiltrate and undermine democracies throughout the world through the use of building allies in investment banks, throwing money at universities, and using its control of digital companies to further its autocratic reach. Although the book focuses on warring factions within the Trump administration in confronting the CCP challenge, it also explains how administrations from both parties over decades shared the same erroneous assumption that promoting free trade with China would modify the behavior of the CCP. Instead, this assumption has proven to be drastically wrong. Cooperation from the world’s democracies has only strengthened the autocratic hand of the CCP—both internally and externally.
In these days of sound bite journalism, this book provides a piercing analysis of a deliberate execution of a disturbing and, unfortunately successful, strategy by the CCP to infiltrate and undermine democracies throughout the world through the use of building allies in investment banks, throwing money at universities, and using its control of digital companies to further its autocratic reach. Although the book focuses on warring factions within the Trump administration in confronting the CCP challenge, it also explains how administrations from both parties over decades shared the same erroneous assumption that promoting free trade with China would modify the behavior of the CCP. Instead, this assumption has proven to be drastically wrong. Cooperation from the world’s democracies has only strengthened the autocratic hand of the CCP—both internally and externally.
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