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The New York Subway Map Debate
The discovery of a lost audio recording sheds new light on a pivotal event in design history: the 1978 debate between designer Massimo Vignelli and cartographer John Tauranac over the future of the NYC Subway Map. The New York Subway Map Debate features the full transcript and discussions that followed, along with never-before-seen photographs of the evening by Stan Ries. Edited by filmmaker and design historian Gary Hustwit, with a foreword by designer Paula Scher.
140 pages, Paperback
Published January 1, 2021
About the author
Gary Hustwit
12 books6 followersGary Hustwit is an independent filmmaker based in New York and London. He worked with punk label SST Records in the late 1980s, and was subsequently involved in a wide range of projects in music and book publishing before he began producing documentaries in 2001. His films include the design documentaries Helvetica, Objectified and Urbanized.
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Displaying 1 - 10 of 10 reviews
October 7, 2022
Truly one of the most interesting (and specific) books I've read in a while... turns out the MTA has been figuring out a lot of the same shit for decades—surprise!!!
February 27, 2026
It’s funny how time sometimes feels like a flat circle.
With the 2025 resurrection of Massimo Vignelli’s NYC subway map, the discourse surrounding whether or not New Yorkers like a geographically accurate map design or a system focused design has once again come back to life with it.
A physical geography-based design created by Tauranac/Hertz was the skeleton of the official NYC subway map the Metropolitan Transit Authority (MTA) had used since 1979. What’s ironic is that as of April 2025, the MTA adopted a design proposal based on a modernized version of Massimo Vignelli’s minimalistic systems-focused map.
Said design was the main subject of a heated debate between stakeholders, designers, and New Yorkers, as shown in this book, and was rejected by the MTA in the late 1970s during a map redesign.
Anyone who has worked in public service will love this transcript because there are the same microphone feedback issues, cruel panelists, and rowdy citizen commenters that you would see in any local government public hearing or school board meeting today. The follow up interviews of the panelists in the late 2010s, along with the pictures from the actual debate, are great supplements to the transcript.
Although the transcript of this debate over the design of the subway map dates all the way back in 1978, it’s so funny (and tragic) to me how the same talking points used in this debate are used today to describe design preferences and the subway system in general.
I guess even 5 decades ago, there has always been confusion about the E train and its route/schedule when not running down 8th Ave, or which exact stations are express stops along the 6th Ave line.
Even after a dozen visits to Manhattan, I, and all of the other subway riders that immediately see a subway system map when we enter a Midtown or Lower Manhattan station, are asking each other which stops are local, express, or a weekend service. Because we don’t REALLY know what the hell is actually going on despite using the system enough times to develop muscle memory.
While it’s endearing to feel connected to voices of others from a lifetime ago, it’s also incredibly sad that visitors and residents of New York City alike still struggle with the same systems issues that have plagued four generations of riders, with no tangible improvements in sight. This hurts for me personally, considering I use a metro system in DC that, while not as extensive as NYC’s, has steadily improved the rider experience over the past few years, and has now finally surpassed pre-covid ridership numbers.
So I know it’s possible elsewhere, why not for New Yorkers?? Maybe we are all just doomed to repeat history rather than move past it, as the powers-that-be change their minds about infrastructure improvements and budget priorities depending on which direction the wind blows that day.
With the 2025 resurrection of Massimo Vignelli’s NYC subway map, the discourse surrounding whether or not New Yorkers like a geographically accurate map design or a system focused design has once again come back to life with it.
A physical geography-based design created by Tauranac/Hertz was the skeleton of the official NYC subway map the Metropolitan Transit Authority (MTA) had used since 1979. What’s ironic is that as of April 2025, the MTA adopted a design proposal based on a modernized version of Massimo Vignelli’s minimalistic systems-focused map.
Said design was the main subject of a heated debate between stakeholders, designers, and New Yorkers, as shown in this book, and was rejected by the MTA in the late 1970s during a map redesign.
Anyone who has worked in public service will love this transcript because there are the same microphone feedback issues, cruel panelists, and rowdy citizen commenters that you would see in any local government public hearing or school board meeting today. The follow up interviews of the panelists in the late 2010s, along with the pictures from the actual debate, are great supplements to the transcript.
Although the transcript of this debate over the design of the subway map dates all the way back in 1978, it’s so funny (and tragic) to me how the same talking points used in this debate are used today to describe design preferences and the subway system in general.
I guess even 5 decades ago, there has always been confusion about the E train and its route/schedule when not running down 8th Ave, or which exact stations are express stops along the 6th Ave line.
Even after a dozen visits to Manhattan, I, and all of the other subway riders that immediately see a subway system map when we enter a Midtown or Lower Manhattan station, are asking each other which stops are local, express, or a weekend service. Because we don’t REALLY know what the hell is actually going on despite using the system enough times to develop muscle memory.
While it’s endearing to feel connected to voices of others from a lifetime ago, it’s also incredibly sad that visitors and residents of New York City alike still struggle with the same systems issues that have plagued four generations of riders, with no tangible improvements in sight. This hurts for me personally, considering I use a metro system in DC that, while not as extensive as NYC’s, has steadily improved the rider experience over the past few years, and has now finally surpassed pre-covid ridership numbers.
So I know it’s possible elsewhere, why not for New Yorkers?? Maybe we are all just doomed to repeat history rather than move past it, as the powers-that-be change their minds about infrastructure improvements and budget priorities depending on which direction the wind blows that day.
June 30, 2023
Amazing little book, but for something that's about details on maps, it sure is way too small to see... the details on the maps that are printed. Seems such a weird, unforced error.
November 15, 2021
Super fun to hear Massimo Vignelli and other map makers / design / transit people discuss what makes a good map. Is it reducing detail as much as possible, so the communication is targeted and concise? Or does a better map include more and more layers of information? Also interesting to hear about some of the crazy details about why NYC’s system is so complicated and hard to navigate.
Also as a designer it was fun/familiar/soul-crushing to learn Vignelli & Associates designed a whole system, the client implemented only 1/3 of the system, and then wondered why it wasn’t effective and had it redone. LOLz.
Also as a designer it was fun/familiar/soul-crushing to learn Vignelli & Associates designed a whole system, the client implemented only 1/3 of the system, and then wondered why it wasn’t effective and had it redone. LOLz.
December 7, 2021
Excellent. Presented minimally to mostly let the actual transcript be the bulk of the work, it's well framed with intros, interspersed with found objects to lend character to the event photos during the debate, and wrapped up with a few interviews at the end. Will definitely reread and a joy to have this handsome little time capsule.
Some serious design flaws though, very tight binding and letters are included in landscape so you can't read whole paragraphs lest you break the spine and an almost "free on Kindle"-level of type setting errors too, ironic given the author.
Some serious design flaws though, very tight binding and letters are included in landscape so you can't read whole paragraphs lest you break the spine and an almost "free on Kindle"-level of type setting errors too, ironic given the author.
March 15, 2022
As a fan of the Helvetica movie, I was glad to discover this little gem and revisit good old Vignelli. I read the whole thing in a day. Highly enjoyable background information, which I appreciated both as a lover of good design as well as a subway user on visits to NYC and London.
I would give it five stars except for the glued paperback design, which prevented the maps and photos from laying flat, or even being completely visible. That was a bad oversight for a book that comes from the design community.
I would give it five stars except for the glued paperback design, which prevented the maps and photos from laying flat, or even being completely visible. That was a bad oversight for a book that comes from the design community.
October 1, 2025
the only shame is that it doesn't have the map inserts of all references, plus the two maps on debate are printed very small (particularly the 1979 one), so it's difficult to parse. great stuff, love the screed against sans serif, love the digs at mta and its budget (and thus vignelli's naivete in thinking there'd be THREE maps), the refocusing on implementation not design (why aren't all the maps outside of stations? reiterates many people) -- not a huge focal point but the misogyny is so palpable sometimes!
December 26, 2021
Abstract simple inaccurate.
Literal complex accurate.
Classic design tradeoff. Be it subway maps or software user interface
I like Vignelli's 3 map idea. They all have a place and purpose.
Literal complex accurate.
Classic design tradeoff. Be it subway maps or software user interface
I like Vignelli's 3 map idea. They all have a place and purpose.
July 3, 2023
pretty cool transcription of what was a significant event - follow up interviews were cool as well!
November 13, 2023
LOVED the content, but several pictures fell in the centerfold making the text hard to read, which was disappointing.
Displaying 1 - 10 of 10 reviews